FDR knew we had to support England but he didn't want to make enemies with the Congress and he was afraid he would have lost the next election as most Americans did not want to get involved in another war in Europe because of the casualties suffered in the first world war.
FDR therefore took the cowards way out by sending supplies and not soldiers.
So charging them for supplies was never an issue.
If he really wantd to help he would have sent soldiers.
This is why I like the West Wing. It takes a subject that most people have no understanding of and educates you in a non-patronising way. Love it. :-)
This a great scene that proves that josh loved donna. He loves her and he wants her to as smart as he is. It dosent matter what she thinks on a greater scale but he takes the time because he wants her to think the way he does and thats love, i think
I like Josh's analogy right up to the point where he DOESN'T mention that "you don't haggle the price of the ladder, you set a price and then get them to try and rebuild their country at the same time as paying off 'the loan' from 1945 until 2006 (61 years - 36 years longer than most housing mortgages :)
@step5732 It's not that silly. He extended the analogy to parts of reality that also exists in the West Wing universe, which is pretty tangential to our own, right up to Nixon.
@trallala I meant that the posting on youtube was silly, not what Josh said to Donna! I think it is an extraordinary use of factual information. It probably enlightened many viewers!
@step5732 Actually, yes, I do realise it's a "fictional television show" and is also one of my favourites. I would rather the content matched the situation more completely. The scene seemed to be trying to say people should help one another because they can. In reality the example given was taken out of context. The recipients had to pay back the lenders at a time when they had, as the saying goes in the colonies, "their asses kicked". The UK finished paying off Lend-Lease in 2006 :)
@Riculf101 First - thanks for the reply! I realize your comment was quite old. The scene was DEFINITELY saying you should help because you can. Josh's comment about the hose was paraphrasing what FDR said -
"What do I do in such a crisis?" the president asked at a press conference. "I don't say... 'Neighbor, my garden hose cost me $15; you have to pay me $15 for it' …I don't want $15 — I want my garden hose back after the fire is over." (from Wikipedia). Hence, no haggling, repay when you can.
@Riculf101 The repayment, it was not, as you so eloquently put it, at a time when they just had "their asses kicked". It was an extremely large sum of money - $50.1 BILLION (equivalent of $759 billion in 2008). It was set up to be repaid, in annual installments, over 50 years, with a deferment of 5 yrs. The final payment, as planned, was on 12-29-2006.
I think the entire scene,using a bit of artistic license, was meant to make a point (help when you can) and to show good faith between nations.
Could someone remind me of the background to this story? Were they trying to grant Mexico a massive loan and Donna had moral objections or something or another?
@dernogg While we can is a valid answer, the more true one is that we should! Much like the French helped America when we were fighting for our independence, you help those who are in need of help. It's in our blood as Americans.
@lilfelber ...although, at the time, France and the UK were embroiled in a rather messy war and anything that France could do to help America meant that much needed fighting strength was being siphoned off to (what can be argued as) a minor action. The French did it because it helped them and screwed their ancient enemy. Same thing happened between the Scots and the French. Admittedly the British had spent a lot of time invading everywhere so they were probably asking for it :)
You could put that scene up and show it to anyone you wanted to get in to this show. I showed my friend the scene in season 7 with Santos and Vinick talking about the lost briefcase because I just think that Alan Alda rocks.
Actually you are right, My mistake. although he does say Austria, and Austria just let the Nazis take over without a shot and in fact helped throughout the war effort.
Josh' is wrong.
FDR knew we had to support England but he didn't want to make enemies with the Congress and he was afraid he would have lost the next election as most Americans did not want to get involved in another war in Europe because of the casualties suffered in the first world war.
FDR therefore took the cowards way out by sending supplies and not soldiers.
So charging them for supplies was never an issue.
If he really wantd to help he would have sent soldiers.
bornbillsmith 2 weeks ago
This is why I like the West Wing. It takes a subject that most people have no understanding of and educates you in a non-patronising way. Love it. :-)
sarnieken 4 months ago
This a great scene that proves that josh loved donna. He loves her and he wants her to as smart as he is. It dosent matter what she thinks on a greater scale but he takes the time because he wants her to think the way he does and thats love, i think
alahl002 1 year ago
@alahl002 ...it's love to want people to think the way you do? That sounds like an unhealthy, controlling relationship.
castellanofarsante 1 year ago
I'm sorry. As great as that scene is, I lost my train of thought after watching Donna walk out. I am weak.
txmoney 2 years ago
I like Josh's analogy right up to the point where he DOESN'T mention that "you don't haggle the price of the ladder, you set a price and then get them to try and rebuild their country at the same time as paying off 'the loan' from 1945 until 2006 (61 years - 36 years longer than most housing mortgages :)
Riculf101 2 years ago
@Riculf101
Huh?
You do realize this is a fictional television show, don't you?
step5732 8 months ago
@step5732 you do realise you're replying to a year-old comment, don't you?
trallala 8 months ago
@trallala yes, I realize that! It;s one of the first comments that shows up and it's silly.
step5732 8 months ago
@step5732 It's not that silly. He extended the analogy to parts of reality that also exists in the West Wing universe, which is pretty tangential to our own, right up to Nixon.
trallala 8 months ago
@trallala I meant that the posting on youtube was silly, not what Josh said to Donna! I think it is an extraordinary use of factual information. It probably enlightened many viewers!
step5732 8 months ago
@step5732 I was talking about the comment. Josh doesn't extend the analogy, he makes it initially.
trallala 8 months ago
@step5732 Actually, yes, I do realise it's a "fictional television show" and is also one of my favourites. I would rather the content matched the situation more completely. The scene seemed to be trying to say people should help one another because they can. In reality the example given was taken out of context. The recipients had to pay back the lenders at a time when they had, as the saying goes in the colonies, "their asses kicked". The UK finished paying off Lend-Lease in 2006 :)
Riculf101 8 months ago
@Riculf101 First - thanks for the reply! I realize your comment was quite old. The scene was DEFINITELY saying you should help because you can. Josh's comment about the hose was paraphrasing what FDR said -
"What do I do in such a crisis?" the president asked at a press conference. "I don't say... 'Neighbor, my garden hose cost me $15; you have to pay me $15 for it' …I don't want $15 — I want my garden hose back after the fire is over." (from Wikipedia). Hence, no haggling, repay when you can.
step5732 8 months ago
@Riculf101 The repayment, it was not, as you so eloquently put it, at a time when they just had "their asses kicked". It was an extremely large sum of money - $50.1 BILLION (equivalent of $759 billion in 2008). It was set up to be repaid, in annual installments, over 50 years, with a deferment of 5 yrs. The final payment, as planned, was on 12-29-2006.
I think the entire scene,using a bit of artistic license, was meant to make a point (help when you can) and to show good faith between nations.
step5732 8 months ago
Could someone remind me of the background to this story? Were they trying to grant Mexico a massive loan and Donna had moral objections or something or another?
thatdrattedcat 2 years ago 3
What a great concept. Why help them, because we can.
dernogg 2 years ago 25
@dernogg While we can is a valid answer, the more true one is that we should! Much like the French helped America when we were fighting for our independence, you help those who are in need of help. It's in our blood as Americans.
lilfelber 1 year ago
@lilfelber ...although, at the time, France and the UK were embroiled in a rather messy war and anything that France could do to help America meant that much needed fighting strength was being siphoned off to (what can be argued as) a minor action. The French did it because it helped them and screwed their ancient enemy. Same thing happened between the Scots and the French. Admittedly the British had spent a lot of time invading everywhere so they were probably asking for it :)
Riculf101 8 months ago
You could put that scene up and show it to anyone you wanted to get in to this show. I showed my friend the scene in season 7 with Santos and Vinick talking about the lost briefcase because I just think that Alan Alda rocks.
sunnchilde 3 years ago
"France, Austria, and England are getting their butts kicked." Opps. I think he meant to say that "France, Russia and England" are. hahaha
harlequinmasks 3 years ago
Nope. Europe in 1939.
Russia and Germany weren't at war at that time. Rather they amicably split Poland between them.
DirAlbino 3 years ago 13
Actually you are right, My mistake. although he does say Austria, and Austria just let the Nazis take over without a shot and in fact helped throughout the war effort.
harlequinmasks 3 years ago
Yep, the union between Austria and Germany was called Anschluss
thejuryconsultant 2 years ago 2
Wow, I am WAAAY late with my response--that'll teach me to post without reading better.
Cheers!
harlequin115 2 years ago
@DirAlbino THEN they killed each other!
Anonie324 1 year ago
No-he meant Austria. They were getting their butts kicked. He had it right.
artmilnes 2 years ago
It's 1939--Nazis hadn't invaded Russia yet. They'd just prepped for occupying Austria.
Interesting log-in name you have there, though....
harlequin115 2 years ago