Does God Exist Debate at Durham College/UOIT

[T2DarIantan]

there's a low percentage of the population that are atheists, and the same goes for high intelligence...I wonder why that is?

[Ayye450]

Not cool, the belief in God is personal, the campus contains many different faith groups, this can be considered very offensive.

[goboenomo]

17% of those surveyed aren't idiots.

[jbrook1]

Sorry guys...God does not exist

[tinykicksass]

@jbrook1 Can you prove it?

[jbrook1]

@tinykicksass science....logic....... hold more solidity than 2,000 year old fairytale and a sample survey

[tinykicksass]

@jbrook1 Solidity in science? Whenever one fault in the theory of evolution is found, it causes a lot of change in the theory. That's what science is, theories. So there's no solidity in it. And how does logic prove that God does not exist?

[jbrook1]

@tinykicksass hahah Science STARTS with a theory, Anthropologists have been working on this for time, but their is more truths than falsifications. In no rational / logical scence is there a magical creator of all life in the sky and created this world etc and all this nonsense. This is not logical once so ever. There is more to prove he does not exist. prove that, that he exists. Belief is spawned from perception, of which can be easily manipulated and disillusioned.

[tinykicksass]

@jbrook1 You have not stated how it is illogical for a god to exist. And OK, show me this proof that He doesn't exist. And you're right, belief in something such as God is from perception. And also science IS THEORY. That's why there's tons of different ideas on multiple different points in the belief of evolution. Which in a way is somewhat like how people interpret the Bible differently.

[jbrook1]

@tinykicksass Well, this is because all there is, is a theory for evolution.Science itself is not a theory. Theere not much more that needs to be said regarding the logical side of there being a magical man in the sky, this is absurd, you're clearly too brainwashed by the christian religion. You reject rational thought to bring false validities to you're beliefs, good conversation, thanks for you're ideas , we're done here

[tinykicksass]

@jbrook1 And let me get one thing clear. I don't look down on anyone who has a different belief (be it a different religion or not). If someone can provide a good argument supporting what they believe (like what you have done), I have lots of respect for them. I believe that people shouldn't be criticized for what they believe.

[tinykicksass]

@jbrook1 To be fare though I guess religion isn't exactly solid either. People have different interpretations of what certain texts in the Bible/Qur'an/other religious books mean, hence why there's different denominations of faiths.

[jbrook1]

@tinykicksass  yes, and how solid this is right? a book so vague their are different sides to the message. This proves that this interlocking web of contradictory fables are nonsense. Wheres the proof? I've always been told i just need to believe and have faith, this is glorified brainwashing

[tinykicksass]

@jbrook1 Also, how does science prove God doesn't exist? Couldn't evolution be part of the 'intelligent design'?

[jbrook1]

@tinykicksass well, does it say this in the bible??, why are these priests becoming more involved in sexual encounters with children? I beleive they have found no god

[tinykicksass]

@jbrook1 Even though they are priests, they are still human and humans make mistakes and give into temptation. And simple, there's more priests today than there has ever been in the past due to us having a much larger world population now. From what I've read/heard, the percentage of priests doing bad sexual things hasn't increased or decreased significantly.

[jbrook1]

@tinykicksass This doesnt excuse anything tho, because They know the damnation they will recieive in the after life, why risk this? From what they know, the position they hold, this doesnt add up to me.. sorry im having difficulty finding the words to explain my thoughts on this subject, excuse me

[tinykicksass]

@jbrook1 You're right, it doesn't excuse anything. The Bible does clearly state that stuff like that is wrong. But who's brainwashed here... hard to say I guess. We both seem to be hard-set in our beliefs. But I don't see how believing in something is wrong, so long as it doesn't harm anybody. But yeah, let's end this conversation here.

[jbrook1]

@tinykicksass Good convo tho, i appreciate a goot conversation, you make good points and you're clearly a bright person, i hope the best for ya, and have a good one man

[tinykicksass]

@jbrook1 Thanks. Same to you.

[TylerOmega]

@tinykicksass "But I don't see how believing in something is wrong, so long as it doesn't harm anybody"

I respectfully disagree. Belief in the supernatural demeans the entire human race. Despite everything that science can explain and we still look to ancient texts written by poets, storytellers and lunatics for answers.

We enjoy the fruits of modern science everyday but as soon as it contradicts our pre-determined version of the truth, we shut down our brains and call it heresy.

[RavenmoonAlberta]

How horrible! I am now embarrassed that I went to this school. Thank god I moved off to university and can say I graduated from there.

[smileydaft]

@RavenmoonAlberta may i ask why?

[CollegeExperience]

god does exist, but not the way most people think it does, most people believe God to be some kind of human in a friggin Judge office or something waiting to judge you when you die, i think God exits as a thing, i know most people would like to be able to see God physically but you do everyday, every little thing that is made is God, the grass you walk on, the water you swim in ,

[CollegeExperience]

@CollegeExperience the air you breathe that's God. God isn't a person,and if you die and see God as a human, he's showing you what your most comfortable seeing which is a Human.

[tinykicksass]

@CollegeExperience An interesting point. The Bible says that God is everywhere inside everything, so it makes sense.

[Dialetheia]

@CollegeExperience What you said makes no sense; none at all.

[marmy11]

I know of a bunch of Christians who attended this event and all thought Joe Boot won by a landslide. I then asked "what was his main argument?"

-"?"

"What were any of his arguments?"

-"?"

"Can you tell me one thing Boot said about why there's a god?"

-"Well we couldn't be having an intelligent conversation right now if he weren't there"

They all said this I'm not even lying.

Christians-- 30% of em left before DiCarlo said a word, 70% ignored him and 100% didn't pay any attention to either of em.

[tinykicksass]

@marmy11 I payed attention to both of them, and I'm a Christian. And I know many others who did too.

But yeah I did notice a lot of people leaving when DiCarlo began speaking. That's so rude! And for people stayed but didn't pay attention is rude too, but I know that there were people other than Christians who didn't pay attention either.

[targus2899]

i remember this day

[MittWaffen]

Most highly educated persons (depending on field of study) usually do not believe in religion (god).

If you think otherwise, watch Zeitgeist.

The parallels with astrology, methodology etc etc. Its pretty obvious that tradition created religion on scientific facts.

Religion isnt bad, (except Scientology)

cult business based 'religion' is disgusting and one of the worst things we have on the planet.

If you believe in alternative religions, do so. But always keep an open mind =).

[DisturbedParadise]

i dont belive in god. if god is real then so are unicorns ,dragons, and things like that.he cant be proven

[tinykicksass]

There's a lot of stuff in the theory of evolution that can't be proven either.

[leechazki]

What do you mean?

[tinykicksass]

@leechazki DisturbedParadise was meaning that God can't be proven by science. I was meaning that our understanding of science is flawed and will always be somewhat flawed because people make mistakes.

[leechazki]

But what in evolution can`t be proved and how can anyone predict what science will be able to prove in future?

People do make mistakes but the scientific method is the only honest way of discerning what is real about the nature of our universe. You don`t have Eastern science competing against Western science. We just do science.

Religion is divisive where as science could unite us.

[tinykicksass]

@leechazki Well, for one thing no scientists seem to agree exactly with one another on everything about evolution.

And also, things in science that have been said to be true in the past have been proven false. I'd rather believe in something that doesn't change.

And, if anything, the theory of evolution has just divided us even more by creating another division. If we all believed in evolution, we'd be just as united as if we all believed in one religion.

[leechazki]

You`re right. Not all scientists agree on every aspect of the theory of evolution by natural selection but they all agree that it happened. The parts they disagree on are minor details and that`s why the scientific method is our best way of getting to the truth. It`s based on evidence.

If the whole of the world`s population believed in Christianity it wouldn`t unite us because there are over a thousand denominations. Same with Islam.

Which bit of TTOE don`t you agree with and why?

[tinykicksass]

@leechazki What I meant is that if everyone believed in the same thing, we'd be just as united. And also not every scientist believes in evolution. There are many Christian scientists, and I hear there's also many from other religions. And they do have scientific theory that there is a God. Why don't we hear about them in the media? Because the media gives the public what they believe the public wants to hear, and the public generally doesn't want to hear religion and science...

[tinykicksass]

@leechazki ...colliding like that. I guess that's just a theory, but I've studied journalism and I know that a lot of stuff gets blocked out of the media because of things like that.

And also well let me make one thing clear. I believe that evolution happened in one way or another (the Bible even supports that), I just believe that there is a God. The reason why I said that I don't believe in evolution is because saying that I do believe in evolution would imply that...

[tinykicksass]

@tinykicksass ... I'm an athiest, which I'm not. And there's many other Christians who agree with me (not just from my denomination). It's very possible that God worked through evolution.

[leechazki]

@tinykicksass Can`t see our last two comments. Do you sensor comments or is it just youtube being shit?

[leechazki]

@tinykicksass @tinykicksass I wouldn`t assume someone was an atheist just because they believe we evolved. I know people can believe in their god and know that evolution is true. I also have slightly more respect for that kind of person as opposed to these history deniers like Hovind, Comfort etc. They`re just bible bashing nutters.

One question though. What evidence is there for your god? The majority of people...

[leechazki]

...don`t agree with your concept of god whether they`re believers in a different religion or none. I mean your god specifically. Or could it just be a matter of where you were born or raised. Be honest.

[tinykicksass]

@leechazki Well, I was raised Christian Reformed, but I fell away from it for years (wasn't sure whether to believe in God or not, and if I did what religion would be correct). My proof of God, well it's sort of something personal that happened so it wouldn't be proof to anyone else but myself unfortunately. I'm Christian again now, and am going to a Christian Reformed church, but am not entirely sure if that's the denomination I'll forever stick with.

[tinykicksass]

@leechazki And I did look into other religions and Christianity just seems to make the most sense to me. But I don't know if each religion believes in a different God really even though they may say that it's different. I mean like many religious texts from many religions have some of the same stories in them. I believe that it's Islam's Qur'an that's pretty much the same as the Bible up until the time of Abraham.

[leechazki]

@tinykicksass No, there are many completely different gods around with believers who are much more devout than you seem to be. You seem to be sound and I don`t mean to be pushy, but what was this personal experience of yours. I`m intrigued by this discussion because normally I end up arguing with religious morons.

[leechazki]

@tinykicksass Sorry it`s me again. About what you said about the media only telling what people want. Are you serious? If the Christian scientists, with their intelligent design and their creation BS, had theories that could actually challenge the real scientific community, don`t you think the American media would jump on it? Fox News would be showing it all day everyday.

What we really see is just real science and on the other hand, superstitious rubbish.

[tinykicksass]

@leechazki No, because anything about religion in the news is automatically met with skepticism or people just don't want to listen to it (unless it's something negative, like a religious person killing someone. I don't think those people should be called religious though, since the rule not to kill is in every religious text I've looked in to. And also, oddly enough people in general crave bad news over any other news).

Will respond to your other comments later. Busy now. Sorry.

[leechazki]

Was just thinking about what you said about it being better to believe in something that never changes. Really? You say scientists change their minds when new evidence comes along. You say it like this is a bad thing but if you really think about it, it`s a much more noble and honest approach. To hold to the words of iron age men, (yeah men, not women) because it feels better, is just plain closed-mindedness. Do you honestly not agree?

[Kimble275]

"God Truely does play with Dice"

-end quote. lol

Peace.

[benjrh]

thanks for uploading this. I missed it cause I was sleeping over at South village cause i was so tired lol

[tinykicksass]

no problem :-)

[ebanbata]

i was quite disappointed wit this debate. it did really point out why God exists. it was a bunch of facts and im sure didnt change anyones views. the debate should have been a way for pple to get to know who God is, and be able to draw close to him.

[tinykicksass]

actually it did change a few people's views or at least question their views... though yes the debate wasn't the best that I've seen but it isn't the worst either.

[gonepishing]

the intro person is a terrible speaker, a tad too relaxed and tounge tied

[robopoet]

It seems people see God as a personification of 'all that is good in the universe' but they don't see 'all that is evil in the universe' as an individual such as the Devil. They just say God created everything and is good and there happens to be evil - but there is no 'person' behind that..

[robopoet]

If God exists, doesn't Satan have to exist as well - to balance things out? Like 'down' has to exist as soon as there is an 'up'? Most people who believe in God seem to not believe in Satan.

[tinykicksass]

u r right. but from what i've seen most people who believe in God or gods do believe in either Satan or something similar.

[yeldarb04]

I personally do believe that Satan exists, but I disagree with your reasoning robopoet. You'll find that this is not such a linear issue. There does not have to be a personification of evil. If God constitutes what is good, then anything in opposition to what He has constituted is evil. When we choose to live our lives other than the way that God has commanded, then that is evil. Evil is not something that was created, but rather, it becomes a reality when we deter from God's way by means

[yeldarb04]

of our own free will. The concept is similar to light vs. darkness. Darkness is not a concept on its own. Darkness is the absence of light. Darkness cannot be defined unless light is defined. It is possible to have the idea of light without having the idea of darkness because light is something, as opposed to darkness which is the absence of something. In the same way, evil is not something on its own, but is only the opposition to what is good. God did not create evil, but it becomes a

[yeldarb04]

reality when we try to find a better way than God's way.

[intensenex]

u realize that our way is most imperfect. ex: making criminal laws to convict someone that is only determine by the ability of ur lawyer to gather evidence and reasoning. This certainly isn't the perfect way cuz all of us r so limited and even have limited understanding. So i beg u to reconsider ur views now!!

[ebanbata]

GOD did create good and evil and he created satan too. it says so in isaiah 45vs7

[yeldarb04]

as a believer in the Bible as truth, I completely disagree with this statement ebanbata, and your interpretation of the passage. God did create Satan, but He did not create Satan as evil. Satan is a fallen angel. Satan chose to rebel against God because of his pride. He chose his own way, instead of God's way. Satan chose to be his own god.

[Purushadasa]

Excellent point!

[smileydaft]

@yeldarb04 May I ask why?

[mathmexican4234]

Well, regardless of whether or not he personally created it in it's current state, a god purported to be omniscient either created evil or let it be created and is therefore responsible for it's continued existence. I regard as truth the saying 'with great power comes great responsibility' and it follows that with infinite power comes infinite responsibility.

For me, the problem of evil is unsolvable until the deity becomes either too stupid or too powerless for me to regard it as a god.

[tinykicksass]

Well, you are partially right. God does allow evil to exist. However, in Genesis God gives man a choice to follow Him or to succumb to temptation and allow evil into the world. So I'd say no, it's not God's fault since He gave man a choice.

And also, if there was no evil in the world, then we wouldn't be thankful for the good things since we wouldn't know any better.

[mathmexican4234]

1) God gave them the choice of 'evil' (which was seemingly to merely not obey a stupid command about some fruit, no idea what death and suffering have to do with obeying a command about fruit) therefor god is responsible for it's existence.

2) Do you have to be shot to be thankful for the moments when you aren't being shot? Do you have to lose a leg to truly be thankful for the legs you have? Must you be stabbed in the eye to be thankful when you arent being stabbed? your logic is awful.

[tinykicksass]

Well, you have a point with the first one. He says that death will enter the world, but it never says whether or not Adam knew what death was exactly.

But could we be thankful for anything if nothing bad had ever happened? No, because if no evil ever existed, then even thinking about something bad would be impossible since there would have been nothing to inspire the thought. So we'd have nothing to compare it to.

[mathmexican4234]

But WHY would death enter the world?

And yes, we can be thankful that bad things don't happen without them happening to us. You can conceive of something without it actually taking place in reality. Regardless, even if I grant your point, would you rather live in a world with evil to be thankful of when evil is not being done to you, or live in a world with no evil or even the concept of evil?

[tinykicksass]

No, because if evil had not entered the world, evil would not be present within our thoughts. I've thought about it, and I guess I can't answer that second question. And neither can anybody, since nobody has ever lived in a world without evil so therefore nobody would know which would be better to live in. In all honesty though, I still THINK that living in a world where bad things happen would be better than living in a perfect world.

[mathmexican4234]

Have unicorns entered the world? because they are in my thoughts...

I'm not sure what you define as 'evil' or what all would classify your 'perfect world,' but, for now, my definition will simply just include voilence, abuse, etc. You mean to tell me that you would really rather live in a world with voilence than one without?

Oh, btw, do you believe in heaven? If so, what do you think it's like? Are bad things happening there?

[tinykicksass]

But you obviously heard about unicorns, so of course they'd be able to be in your thoughts. Which is what I was meaning, our thoughts are inspired by things that we've seen, heard, read about, etc. And your definition of evil is the same as mine, except that I also believe that just the thought of doing such things is evil too.

[mathmexican4234]

Well we will just have to disagree about the human imagination then. That's going nowhere.

I wouldn't add thoughts to evil. They may be disturbing, but there is no direct harm, even though they may lead to actual harm. If the thoughts can be had without harm, it's none of my business.

So if you have your memories, how would you feel if one of your loved ones was burning in hell? Could someone be happy while always remembering that their spouse is being tortured, simply for not believing?

[tinykicksass]

Yes they can. I'm an example of that (it was someone very close to me). It pains me, yes, but it does not make me forever unhappy. It's their choice whether they wanted to believe or not. and believers can go to hell too if they do something wrong and either somehow don't realize it was wrong or have a corrupted view of God's laws.

[mathmexican4234]

How would you feel if your spouse treated you very well in your life and worked at a few charities and was just a great person in general, perhaps better than yourself, yet was sent to hell for not buying the claims of the right religion? Would you think it was just?

If, hypothetically, the god allowed you to alter the standard by which people are allowed into heaven according to what you think is fair (on the day before your spouse was to die) would you change the part about believing in god?

[tinykicksass]

God's essentially like a parent. if you obey Him and do good, you are rewarded. if you disobey Him or do something bad and don't sincerely ask for forgiveness, you are punished.

[mathmexican4234]

If I was a parent and my child hit another child, would it make sense for the child to ask for my forgiveness or the forgiveness of the child he/she hit? And even if my child generally does show remorse, do I then just not give any punishment at all?

And why do you think the child needs punishment? What do you feel is the goal or reason for it?

[tinykicksass]

Yes I do believe in Heaven, and no bad things would happen there. However, we'd be thankful for all the good things that happen there because we'd have memories of the bad things we've experienced here on Earth.

And yes I would want there to be peace on Earth. The atrocities of the past would make us thankful for the peace we'd be enjoying.

[mathmexican4234]

And what do you believe happens to babies and children? Do they go to heaven? When they get to heaven do they just not have any memories? If they don't have any memories of evil, how can they truly appreciate heaven?

[tinykicksass]

There's no evidence supporting what does or doesn't happen to them, but I'd say their spirits are put into another baby that has yet to be formed. Children, however, can believe/disbelieve stuff and can know to follow or not follow rules. But they might not have had a good chance to learn about God, so once again I don't know.

[mathmexican4234]

What do you think would happen if a person is a bible believing christian, then one day gets in a car accident and has amnesia, then lives 30 more years or so (generally being just as good a person as before) and doesn't believe the claims of religion. Was the memory of the spirit wiped clean with the accident, and is now going to hell? or what do you think happens?

[tinykicksass]

That would be a good question to ask a pastor of a church or someone else who knows a lot about the religion.

[tinykicksass]

I've only just started to actually read the Bible, so there's a lot I don't know about what it says.

[tinykicksass]

And yes, I've had lots of bad stuff happen in my life. It's made me more thankful for the things that are good.

[tinykicksass]

And so just because I'm disagreeing with you, how does that make my logic flawed?

[cjk100000]

How could The Creator command one of his creations to live life?

The Creator is perfect, and doesn't have any human traits, such as control -- choosing what is good or bad (us humans make that up).

Satan seems to be a cover-up for human's lack of understanding of misfortune, and a really good ploy at keeping Christians locked into their church.

I know that will sound bitchily cynical-- and it is. Sorry if it offended you, as it was not my intention.

[yeldarb04]

As I see it, and based on the Bible, God is not some power-hungry puppeteer who forces us to live a certain way because He enjoys having control. Rather, He created us and loves and tells us what is the way to experience life that is truly life. It's like how a good parent gives their children rules so that the child can live a good life. The parent is wise and loves the child and knows what is best for the child. Therefore, the child trusts the parent and is wise to obey the parent.

[yeldarb04]

God commands out of love, not out of dictatorship. 

What makes you think the Creator has no human traits?

[beyondnoob737]

God is the Trinity God so he is 3 in one he is Jesus (based on the Christian holy Book - my point of view) God/Father and Holy Spirit. Jesus is the "human form" of God and have expriance as a human so i think God knows what he's doing.

[intensenex]

dude props for bringin that point up. Its very true that ppl who goto church still have not developed understanding to realize alotta stuff about god, about life and about how they shud behave (philosophically). All they have is some biblical knowledge which could be scattered, that they don't wanna piece together or they can't. i am gonna come back to this forum and i'll post a link to the piece of my writing.

[intensenex]

Good to have u explaining this to naieve ppl

[intensenex]

LMAO U GUYS R CRACKIN ME UP!!

haha satan doesn't need to exist to balance GOD out. Now going by ur definition of GOD , who is the creator of all, he created SATAN. And obviously he did not make satan as powerful as him. Then it would be like saying "CAN GOD CREATE A STONE THAT EVEN HE CANNOT LIFT??" <= A sincerely idiotic question.

[beyondnoob737]

ROFLMAO i never heard that one before "CAN GOD CREATE A STONE THAT EVEN HE CANNOT LIFT??" XD

[Purushadasa]

The answer is yes, He can, and then he can lift it anyway.

God is in control of His own rules -- they are not in control of Him.

[Christianjr4]

LOL Michael Coren is AMAZING!!

[tinykicksass]

I totally agree!

[danarrgh]

Do you hate queer people too???

[tinykicksass]

That's a common misconception. The Bible says to not hate anybody. And at first glimpse it seems to say that homosexuality is a sin but if you look deeper and really think about everything the Bible says well it's hard to say if it is or not. And no I don't hate queer people some of my close friends are and it doesn't bug me.

[danarrgh]

I wasn't referring to the bible, I was referring to that homophobic asshole you two have a crush on. Fuck Michael Coren.

[David01132]

You started by saying its a common misconception, but in the next sentence you contradicted yourself and said "well if you think deep about it, its hard to say".

Nonsense. Could you please cite the verse in the bible that would resend this verse:

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

Your bible condemns homosexuality.

[tinykicksass]

sorry, must have been tired when i wrote that. i did contradict myself a bit there.

and think about it. God created both man and woman for the sake of reproducing and continuing on mankind.

and as for the whole 'be put to death' thing, the laws in the Bible change according to the times of which they were written in. i don't know much about the Bible, but it seems to me that since it's near the beginning that mankind wasn't very large and God wanted to ensure it's continuation...

[tinykicksass]

so of course He'd get angry if someone went against that by being with someone of the same sex. times have changed now, and we face overpopulation. maybe now He'd consider it to be ok? i don't know. like i said, i still have much more to find out about the Bible/Christianity.

[David01132]

The reason why we dont put people to death anymore for homosexuality is because we've morally graduated beyond that. We all are more moral than the people who wrote that book.

When I read that verse in Leviticus, I dont think a loving god wrote that. It sounds more like a bunch of old homophobic men wrote it.

[David01132]

So youre saying that the verse in Leviticus doesnt apply anymore; although im not sure where that is stated in the bible. You say that the laws change according to the times. No. In fact, most christians would say god's word is unchanging. You probably aren't aware of that since you seem to have this liberal view of christianity.

[tinykicksass]

actually, none of the many christians i know believe that God's word is unchanging. so show me some proof that most christians would think otherwise, cause there r a few points where God changed/added to His laws.

but yes it may be possible that some homophobe did write that. after all, it was many people who wrote the Bible. it is possible (so far as i know) that some of what is written in it is personal opinion. though in this case, i'd still be more in favour of what i've previously stated.

[David01132]

Essentially, you're saying at some point god said it was ok to put to death homosexuals. OK fine. Then he's a dick! It doesnt matter if he changed his mind about it now. At some point in history, this is what god thought should happen to people of his creation. That is not justice! It is not! Sure, I may not be able to do anything to stop him. But the ant cant do anything to stop me from squishing it, but it doesn't make me any less of a dick!

[David01132]

By the way, Ill be happy to go head to head against anyone on general religious knowledge any day. Im a fan of religion - all religion. Because I think it teaches us more about other cultures. Im a fan of the bible because I kinda like studying the history of it, and the stories that are in it. And I kind of the fact that I know more about whats in the book than the people who bother to argue with me about it.

[tinykicksass]

then sorry i haven't had as much time to study it as u have. would if i could, but i'm pretty busy. and i agree with u that studying religious texts tells us more about other cultures. again, i would too if i had the time.

[Maphisto86]

I go to Durham as well. Wanted to go but I had a class at this time. I took part in the poll however. I am glad someone posted it here as it is no longer live on Mogulus.

[falkenjeff]

YES! someone is finally uploading it? (I go to UOIT :P)

[eggeag]

A good intro

[cakeguy4569]

I go to this school

[tinykicksass]

kewl