Texas-Arizona Basketball Five Second Violation?

[chico1261]

texas was a weak team. Arizona had a bad game and still won. also you act like the referes have built in stopwatches in their head.

[bigravensfan21]

@chico1261 They do have the arm gestures that the ref was clearly doing and never did 5 of before calling the five-second violation. Or did you think the gestures were for fun?

[hahyunlee]

@2xvhslstatechampions what the hell are you talking about?

[jojo24love]

that ref rig the game

[hahyunlee]

@AZ520ful funny how your analysis is "texas WOULDNT have made it passed duke" like you can predict the future, and that they WOULDVE had a tough schedule IF they beat uconn. just because you lost by a small margin by a championship team when it wasnt even the finals where a team can be better by the end of the season doesnt mean you are any better. the refs screwed texas arizona wouldnt have made it anywhere. im glad you dont have a job at ESPN because you are terrible at analyzing

[bigravensfan21]

@AZ520ful Arizona managed much of that schedule, with their fall coming against eventual champion Connecticut. So why couldn't Texas have managed that?

[dgf5634]

Hook em horns I feel bad for Cory Joseph even though it wasn't his fault.

[tshomba024]

im a Texas fan and congratulate Arizona for their run and defeating duke but who can argue that the ref obvioulsy cheated cory joseph, his arm motion was steady and suddenly sped up on the fifth motion it was like a quarter second motion. SMH.....

[Cincoseis7777]

It's a human count. It's not supposed to be exactly accurate. It came pretty damn close.

Oh, and AZ hasn't lost to Texas the last nine times that they've played. Bear Down.

[mtcuppmore]

@Cincoseis7777 Well, I didn't see "not supposed to be exactly accurate" listed in the rules but I did see "referee is to visibly count 5 seconds" which he did not do.

[madhazzer]

@Cincoseis7777

"Oh, and AZ hasn't lost to Texas the last nine times that they've played. Bear Down. "

------

And when did Texas basketball last play UofA? Before they were relevant in basketball.

Congrats on beating up on the basketball-squad-at-a-football­-school decades ago. It took a bullshit call like this to award you that 9th win, count your blessings and move on fool

[nbonardi]

1st of all Seth Davis is a moron and decided telling the nation that that was a rule when he was not certain.

His tweet after the game: "My earlier tweet was incorrect. A player can call a time out up until the ref counts to five. Rule changed several years ago. Apologies."

[qwerty1421]

@gottabightit1 U of A has been there 4 time

[qwerty1421]

@gottabightit1 U of A has been there 4 time

[MissFire99]

wah wah wah...

[gottabighit1]

Hit pause at 4.16 seconds. Cory has already turned to Cartmell (ref), had already shouted "time out' and had his hands in the "T" timeout position. Cartmell, a PAC 10 ref GAVE Arizona, a PAC 10 team, the game. Sad.

[flyguyry1]

@gottabighit1 you are exactly right. Also, the ref had not counted to 5 all the way yet, he had not stretched his arm all the way back out to signal the 5 seconds yet, even as he blew the whistle!!! And the kid had already called timeout to him with 4 seconds left!

[Todd7902]

Ever since the USC game when O'Neil said D Williams had Michael Jordan treatment opponents have been getting away with murder. Duke got away with TONS of fouls and UA destroyed them anyway. Texas had PLENTY of calls throughout the game go their way to where they shouldn't have been that close to begin with. You should feel lucky to have only lost by 1 point.

[nvcats22]

Keep crying longhorn fans. All that matters now is Arizona is in the Elite 8 and Texas is going home.

[miikeyyG]

who gives a fuck the game is over and u of a beat duke. it goes by the refs count not a stopwatch

[jameschmidt1]

@miikeyyG Yeah but the rule is called the 5 second rule, no the 4.67 second rule.

[stock1244]

@madhazzer- Why are you foaming at the mouth trolling every board on this subject? Going back to the 2009 holiday bowl - wow. Do i need to go back to '98 holiday bowl where AZ beat Neb? You are totally off point, fuming about cheating and come off as a crying baby who crapped himself.

Newsflash, you aren't a member of the TX longhorn bb team and you are a nobody. Just congratulate AZ like a man and go away.

[madhazzer]

way to go cheaters. pac 10 officials gave you the game in a handbasket, feelin big now? the big 12 doesnt forget about that stamp nebraska left on arizonas jaded ass either. how was that shutout last year vs nebraska in the football bowl game

[Todd7902]

@madhazzer You can talk all you want about football but it's basketball season! Arizona has ALWAYS been a basketball school with a decent football team. Texas has made the final 4 once and never gone past that! The calls throughout the game were greatly in the Longhorn's favor so you can try to call cheating on a .2 second debate or you can accept that the better team won. Duke would've DESTROYED Texas. Go home!

[gottabighit1]

@Todd7902 Hey, Dumb-Acre. Texas has been to the Final Four 3 previous times. How many has Arizona been to? I'll let YOU do the research, Dumb-Acre.

[Cbaker1947]

@gottabighit1 Lmao you might want to do the research of how many final fours Arizona has been to before you make some stupid comment. That would be 4 times to the final four with one championship and a runner up.

[Antonio865]

@gottabighit1 Dumbass that likes to talk out of his ass right here.

[Todd7902]

@gottabighit1 Hey Jack-acre. You must've googled it because 2/3 of their appearances were in the 1940's Jack-acre. Thanks for pointing out further how much better of a team Az has consistently been than Texas, Jack-acre. Sean Elliot, Mike Bibby, a few Stoudamires, Jason Terry, Steve Kerr, the list of greats goes on. You can dislike my comment if you want but if you want to hang your hat on my lack of Texas history you just go ahead while my team continues to own you! Lucky to lose by only 1!!!

[stock1244]

At least we can put to bed the debate on whether the better team moved on. AZ crushed Duke. TX never had the poise to move on and would have been decimated by Duke.

I pity the TX fans who deluded themselves into thinking that Duke would annihilate AZ because of 5 second violation that was a called a snap of a finger early especially when j brown got to the line multiple times on very questionable calls.

[TheAppsDude]

BEAR DOWN ARIZONA! BEAR DOWN RED AND BLUE!

[soullaidbare77]

for all you idiots that says you can't call a timeout after 4 seconds, get your facts updated......you CAN call a timeout after 4 seconds....the rule was changed a few years ago and the rule book NO LONGER states that you can't call a timeout after 4 seconds! Texas got hosed....they should have won!

[bennmaz]

So here are my NEW conclusions: arm swings by ref at 0:26, 1:25, 3:01, 4:04, (never finishes the final swing) which is in real time (multiply seconds by two): 0:52, 1:50, 3:02, 4:08.Timeout at 4:17 (stopwatch) = 4:34 should have counted assuming you can call timeout between 4 seconds and 5 seconds. I don't know if that is a rule or not but I couldn't find it anywhere in the rule book. All this said I am an Engineer (thus why I want to see the facts) in Arizona (and an AZ fan). Yes bad call.

[gmhead]

If you think any human being has the capability to accurately count five seconds, then you are an idiot. Of course, you're still in High School, so maybe you ought to go do some homework yourself.

They lost. Get over it. "Unfair" calls happen all the time in every sport.

In football ("the game of inches'), a running back 5 inches from the goal line can get the ball over the goal. The guy in the stands can't tell & even the refs have a problem sometimes. It is known as a "judgement call".

[bmgrether]

@gmhead Nobody is capable of counting accurately to 5 seconds... the ref was displaying his count to everybody by using that arm motion... he abruptly stopped his rhythm before 5 seconds which is obvious... Even if his count was WAY off (even 4 seconds digitally) it doesn't matter- as long as he had indicated that he had counted to 5 using his arm motion nobody would be complaining. He stopped- mid-rhythm around 4.5 seconds (not digital 4.5, but 4.5 in his head).

[mtcuppmore]

LOL With comments such as "you can't call a timeout after 4 seconds" still being left I can only assume folks are just trying to say the most retarted things to stir the pot and get a reply.Anyone capable of descerning right from wrong regardless of teams involved can clearly see this ref either consciously chose to misuse his authority to affect the game or is just losing his mental edge and can no long handle officiating high pressure situations.I say put the guy on mop patrol for a few games

[SteelersRule30363]

@mtcuppmore yourre retarded. thats the rule. look it up

[mtcuppmore]

@SteelersRule30363 There is absolutely NO WAY in the world you are as misinformed as you are pretending to be. However, if you are serious, please be so kind as to point out the rule you are referring to. Despite my every effort I have been unable to locate in the "NCAA 2010 AND 2011 MEN’S AND WOMEN’S BASKETBALL RULES" that I am reading. Just for giggles go ahead and Google BR11.pdf Have a great day and thanks again for enlightening everyone.

[SteelersRule30363]

@mtcuppmore i couldnt find it either but dick vitale on espn said it was one so thats where i got it from

[scottkick]

you cant call a timeout after 4 seconds so this video proves the call was made correctly

[scottkick]

you cant call a timeout after 4 seconds so this video proves the call was made correctly

[ianradin]

AZ WINS!!! Game over, quit killing yourself with a timer.

[nbonardi]

Did you know these were Pac 10 refs? I thought refs weren't allowed to be affiliated with the conference they were reffing in the postseason.

[nbonardi]

Terrible call, but one thing no one noticed, this guys clock goes to .3 then up to the second, so really instead of 4.2 seconds it was 4.67 seconds. Gotta look closely guys.

[MauryJacks]

@nbonardi

Sorry, I thought it was obvious that it was 30 frames per second timecode, but judging on comments it is not quite clear. The last two digits count from 00 to 29 each second.

[mtcuppmore]

@MauryJacks Again.. refs arm over rides everything and is law of land in this situation. If you pause at 4:14 you'll see his arm has barely made it halfway back to his chest, which would equal 4.5 secs according to his count. So even though he had not yet even reached 4.5 in his own count, with the kid staring directly at him signaling timeout, he chose to rush his last chop and call violation instead of stopping count at his chest (again, 4.5 according to his own count) and granting timeout.

[Brudykip]

If we watched all the non-called charging fouls by D'crybaby during the game at 30 frames per second Texas wouldn't have been within ten points when this call was made.

Texas LOST to a better team. Man up and stop crying!

[Todd7902]

The clock's not "cooked" but it was started a split second late!

[32CyrusthevirusAggie]

@nbonardi you can NOT call a timeout after fur seconds have gone bye.

[nbonardi]

@32CyrusthevirusAggie

Yes you can, inform yourself before you tell me the rules.



[32CyrusthevirusAggie]

@nbonardi dude look at rules dumbass before you say people are wrong. Besides texas fucked themselves in this game

[devilcats17]

The rule: A timeout may be called by the thrower, or coach, but only before 4 seconds. The timeout will not be awarded.

[mtcuppmore]

@devilcats17 FINALLY someone is starting to quote from some sort of authoritative reference. Kudos! Unfortunately this is from a wiki page that is editable by anyone on the planet and left to everyone else to decide if accurate.This may have been correct at one time but as many have alluded to, is no more. If you scroll down you'll find a link to the actual NCAA Basketball Rules for 2010 and 2011.The rule you quote is not contained within. Only that a team can not consume more than 5 secs.

[mtcuppmore]

@mtcuppmore I think the reason so many people are enraged is that no matter if a time out is called or not, and regardless of what a clock says, the inbounding team has 5 seconds to inbound the ball, and the refs responsibility as defined in the rules is to visibly count off 5 seconds [using arm] which he did not do. What he should have done is blown the whistle the exact moment his arm fully extended a 5th time but in this case he decided to call foul early, as if he was racing the kid.

[nbonardi]

@devilcats17 The rule was changed

[tshomba024]

@devilcats17 thats not the rule lol the rule is u the thrower or coach can call timeout before 5 seconds hence "5 sec violation"

[bigballer013]

arizona sweet16 kick rocks we in here Rep tuc

[SteveUT02]

The ref should never be allowed to step on the floor again. What a disgrace.

[mnpudge]

terrible...

[mtcuppmore]

@inyourmind11 Refer to my comments below. There is so much chicanery in your reasoning u should be embarrassed. Just stick to the facts as clearly illustrated in my comments. Time out is called as refs arm is coming back to his chest (as soon as it hits his chest that indicates he has counted 4.5 seconds). His arm was barely halfway back equalling 4 and quarter secs. A great example of why Coaches Challenge similar to football should be implemented. No ones perfect, but .8sec off? C'mon

[mtcuppmore]

hand hits chest at 4:18 indicating ref has counted 4 and a half seconds and yep, you guessed it... Timeout is still being called.  Accept the fact the ref made a bad call (bad is an understatement since there's no melee of bodies or bad acting going on; he's just counting!) and be glad that your team was on the winning side of it. But trying to say this was a legit 5 sec violation.. C'mon.. Really? Congrats to AZ for making the most of the opportunity!

[mtcuppmore]

Refs arm takes precendence over clock but let's look at both..Clock 1st for bennmarz et al; Click pause button on video as soon as you see the ball touch player...you'll notice the timer has already started. This means if anything the clock starts TOO SOON in this video giving player even LESS time. Now refs arm; click pause as soon as you see refs arm coming back from 4 count (timer on clock is 04:15). U see time out being called and refs arm has not even hit his chest (which would be 4.5sec).

[jr7247]

ref made a bad call. but to be honest J'covan Brown had a couple phantom calls that gave Texas the lead in the first place.

[AioniosGlow]

@bennmarz: you're joking, right? It is clear as day that the stop watch started at the exact moment the player touched the ball. this video is a true testament that Texas was not given the 5 seconds but was given less than 4.2.

[bennmaz]

At 01:26 on stopwatch, the ref has already counted to 2 seconds, this means at 4:26 it would be a violation. That's because If you look at when he hands him the ball, you have yet to start your stopwatch. At 4:07 of stopwatch he is still attempting to pass it in...that leaves him 0:19. At 4:17 on the stopwatch (0:05 of the video) you see player call timeout. Conclusion:  1) your stopwatch started late 2) the player called timeout sometime between 4.81 and 4.91 & 3) ref was slightly early.

[Brudykip]

If anybody knew the rules they would know at the four second count the ref cannot call time out...the player has to inbound the ball or take the turnover.

[unconditionalLove1]

@Brudykip You're wrong. That's an ancient rule that is no longer in place.

[rendavis25]

@Brudykip Wrong. That rule is no longer in place. Player can call time out any time before five seconds. Kind of like the player in this video did.

[Bomber4Life30]

@rendavis25 No. If the referee starts the fifth hand motion, the players cannot call a timeout. In this case, they couldn't.

[dutchggbell]

no that is incorrect it cleary states that you are able to until the full motion of the five as been counted and you dont have to use your hands anymore if it's past four

[rendavis25]

@Bomber4Life30 also wrong. See the @dutchggbell reply.

[bennmaz]

OK, this is two days later and I've now looked at this probably 100 times since then. First, I think I was wrong in saying the stopwatch started late. I think it looked like he had the ball but he had not caught it yet. Second, I didn't notice that this stopwatch is 30 frames per second.

[Rlerma20]

ROBBERYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY­YYYYY

[mtcuppmore]

anyone who would argue this is anywhere even close to 5 seconds has their head burried in the sand. It's plain as day no matter how you analyze (clock count, or refs arm count, which over rides everything) Texas got shafted out of 8 tenths of a second. Oh well, what's done is done but I do think it's fair for officiating brass to take some sort of action. Like Barnes said after the game "it’s a tough game to officiate. But counts, there’s no reason not to get them right... Every time.”

[StirItUp478]

I fucking HATE Texas, but they got screwed. Just watch the way the ref counts off the 5 seconds with his arm. He gets his arm not even halfway on the 5th and is already blowing the whistle.

[soadfan333]

ESPN aready debunked this. it was 4.75 second. thts pretty damn close, and humans cant be like robots and get it at 5. Go wine some were else texas fans! you lost!

[joshmanny24]

@soadfan333 we didnt lose dumbass, yall cheated cuz yall paid the ref to blow last second call

[WirelessCameras]

@joshmanny24 He said, "yall cheated cuz yall paid the ref to blow last second call". Is that the best comment you can come up with? Why don't you go watch the game again and see the calls and no calls that went for and against each team.

[bevosbackside]

The mugging on J'Covan at the other end of the court is a judgment call. I can live with that. That's like arguing balls and strikes. The 4 second count is like the ump calling the batter out after 2 strikes or Colorado getting the 5th down. That's not a difference in judgment, that's a complete failure on the ref's part. This is not debatable, the TO came during the ref's 4th count.

[cirrusbill]

Texas got hosed. Hate to see an official insert himself into the game at a critical moment. What a douche.

[Rooney10ManU1]

Call was made AT 5 seconds. Not 5 seconds, THEN called.

[wstarc5]

Shut up about it, Texas got so many bullshit hand check fouls and U of A should have got to the line a dozen more times so the refs blew the crucial call in our favor they were blowing calls all night.

[madhazzer]

Sounds like a bunch of butthurt Arizona fans that are mad they got caught cheating

Get ready to have your faces stuffed with cawk you cheating bas.tards. You don't have a snowballs chance of defeating Duke you clowns

[wiparker824]

The other thing I'm not sure everyone realizes is that usually on these types of situations refs don't start their counts immediately when the player touches the ball, and don't call the 5 second immediately after their count. Usually it ends up being a 5.5-6 second play. Now, legally, yes, 5 second violations should be called right after 5 seconds, but because it's a human clock they typically lag a little just to be safe. This guy did the opposite.

[fusball4life]

I hate Texas with every fiber in my body but that was just a terrible call. Texas not only got screwed on this 5-second call but also got screwed by the no-call on their last drive to the basket to win it.

[captaingangsta29]

The sad thing is I think your clock is a little fast. Thats how bad the refs cheated this time.

[moniphil]

These guys work too hard to have their season end like this. I don't care about this so much as a fan, but when a group of people put this much work into something just to have it ended by something like this, it is a pretty big deal. And it is not whining. It is just a game, but unlike a game of Monopoly, where you might have 2 hours "invested" when the board gets knocked over by a careless person, these guys just had months' of hard work ended by a careless person. Big deal? Yes.

[gmhead]

Close enough. The right call.

[wrecker14]

@gmhead you truly are an idiot. if in baseball, the ball goes foul, but only by a foot, is it ok to say "close enough" and award a home run? If during a football game a running back gets stopped 5 inches before the end zone, are we going to say "ehh that was pretty close, go ahead give him the touchdown"?

[jwhornex]

Great Defense by Arizona Jamelle Horne. Texas had one game plan to neutralize Derrick Williams which worked for the most part. However, they should have prepared for the incredible 3pt shooting. I can't believe why everyone's crying ref are human and that element of missing a call will always be part of the game. Furthermore, how many phantom calls did Brown get..hmhmhm?? Sometimes, things just balances themselves out those are the ebb and flows of the game...Great Game Texas.

[captaingangsta29]

@jwhornex No they aren't you have no idea what your talking about you better at sucking dick then knowing anything about basketball. Missed fouls happens anyone who isn't retarded knows this. Missed 5 second calls? never go fuck yourself Arizona Cheater. Too bad your team gets there ass kicked by Oregon in football which is all I care about. You rushing the field was a ebb and a flow I guess but your cheating didn't work then and it won't against duke faggot.

[beringer84]

Waaa-waaa-waaa-waaa!! Call the Wambulance!!!! Texas fans are the biggest whiners around. Maybe if Mack Brown had run out on the floor holding up his finger asking for another second, ala Big 12 Championship football game against Nebraska, the refs would have reconsidered?! What goes around comes around. When you have one of the top 5 recruiting classes every year and you still can't make the Sweet 16, there's more obvious problems than a ref counting to 5. Go Richmond, VCU, Marquette !!

[mikewright8619]

Texas fans are getting as bad as Alabama fans. Let's forget the calls that Brown got, calls that embarrassed Dwayne Wade. It's a shame that the refs awarded Arizona 3 points. It's a bigger shame that they allowed Texas to call the timeout in the first place. Rick Barnes is an idiot and Texas fans need to realize that championship teams don't let it come down to one call. Of course, it's not about winning championships at Texas. It's about sending players to the NBA. Right Rick?

[2sonwildcat]

This just in. Due to Texas fans crying over one call in the game, the NCAA has decided that Texas will get back the 0.05 seconds back to inbound the ball.

FACT: This was one of many bad calls or no calls in this game.

FACT: If Texas doesn't call timeout in the backcourt after the refs missed the obvious foul against DWill, Texas wins.

FACT: Texas still had a chance to win the game, but DIDN'T.

FACT: GAME OVER

[HIDEYOCHILDREN]

@2sonwildcat You are right, Texas had another chance and didnt connect. HOWEVER, Arizona only had the chance to win because of the bad call. If Texas had been down when this call was made, there can be debate as to whether they could have won the game. Arizona got their last second shot at winning solely because of a shitty call. Yes, the game is over but that still doesn't make it okay.

[HIDEYOCHILDREN]

also Yall are going to get your buttholes smashed by duke. have fun :)

[WirelessCameras]

Did you say Arizona is going to get smashed by Duke? Did you think Duke was also going to smash Michigan? Instead Duke barely beat Michigan.

[WirelessCameras]

@HIDEYOCHILDREN Did you say Arizona was going to get smashed by Duke? Did you also think Duke was going to smash Michigan? They ended up barely beating Michigan. 

[101DanaWhite]

Texas got screwed. This is the same ref from the Rutgers-StJohns fiasco.

[soadfan333]

@101DanaWhite the ref counting isnt the same as the one from the st johns fiasco you moron

[gottabighit1]

Pause the vid at 22 seconds. Joseph clearly has in hands in the form of a "T". The stopwatch says 4.18. End of story. Once again, a Texas hater has created another YOUTUBE video. During the 1st half, did anyone else notice how many inside shots Texas took that were, according to the TV announcers, "off target, off their mark, or poor shots"? That's because the Texas players were HACKED on every inside shot they took for a 12 minute period where Texas neither made a bucket nor shot a freethrow.

[wiparker824]

anyone else get the feeling the ref simply forgot how many seconds he was on, he really looks like a guy who thought he counted out 5 seconds with his hand and lost track. point being, i am not sure it was a malicious call or some type of intent, to me it really looks like he thought he had counted to 5, when he clearly was only on 4? i was thinking is this a reversible play? i mean can they review/reverse a 5 sec call after the fact? anyone know?

[gottabighit1]

Any other Texas fans furious and sick at their stomachs this morning? I recorded the game and just used my iPhone's stopwatch function. I repeated the play 5 times. I came up with 3.97 as the shortest time (when Jordan makes eye contact wit the ref to begin calling his T.O. to 4.21 seconds when his hands are in the "T' time out position. It was the fasted 5 sec rule I've ever witnessed. Texas had that game won. Let's not even talk about the last 7 seconds of the game !

[wiparker824]

@gottabighit1 yeah, thing is he doesn't even have to make a signal or eye contact, if he yells timeout, which is clearly audible if you listen close just prior to the hand signal and even eye contact then that oral signal is actually enough for the timeout, the signal is more if the ref doesn't hear you. and if i heard the kid yell timeout through my tv speakers, so did the ref. which the yelling of timeout came well before even 4 seconds by anyone's count, except the refs.

[tpstrat14]

@wiparker824 I'm not hearing the timeout call... is that the grunt right at 4.0 seconds? That didn't sound at all like "timeout".... at any rate, he looks over and makes eye contact at 4.3 seconds.... the ref should be fired on the spot. Sorry, buddy, go ref high school basketball. The stakes are too high here.

[wiparker824]

@tpstrat14 Yeah, it's just before he looks over, forgot it's actually easier to see/hear on the other closer camera angle. You can actually see his mouth move and him yelling just before he turns, but yeah, he does definitely make the timeout call before 5 seconds with his hands. But logically speaking, no way he JUST used a hand signal. All players yell timeout with the signal, especially in that big of a moment. It's harder to prove though, so best to just use hand signal argument I guess.

[tpstrat14]

@wiparker824 Actually the main thing I'm looking at here is the head turn and the eye contact. THAT'S a timeout call and it clearly happens well before 4.5 seconds, let alone 5 seconds. And this is even considering that the clock should start immediately when the player gets the ball from the ref! Remember the situation as well. Texas was up 2. Barring a quite unlikely turn of events, Texas had that game in the bag. That ref needs to be fired and/or sued.... seriously

[wiparker824]

@tpstrat14 I know man, I'm not arguing with you, I agree. Anyways, I'm still wondering why they even called a timeout on the rebound. Just let J. Hamilton get fouled. He's a 78% FT shooter. Why call timeout and force a tough inbound play, to try to get it in J'Covan's hands? He's the only one ahead of Hamilton to take those FT's. Brown's a great FT shooter, but too much risk for too little gain though. Don't get me wrong I still blame the refs first, but that play still has me smh.

[tpstrat14]

@wiparker824 Hmm... well, that ref still blew that call and I'm boycotting the rest of the tournament if he's reffing the sweet 16...

[prepchuck]

Player calls timeout at 4.2 before the ref even starts his truncated 5th count. Perhaps he truncated the movement to avoid granting the TO?? Second consecutive game this crew grants AZ obvious bad calls to help them win the game.

[bissoc14]

so many dumb mistakes to lose this game. really stupid call by the refs, if Texas was as good as they were (and they are) they should of played better so that this wouldn't have been a problem. Even if it wasn't called you don't know that Texas still would've won either. but that was a stupid way to lose

[mrmandelbrot]

The correct call was a technical foul for calling for a timeout Texas didn't have. The ref did Texas a favor.

[prepchuck]

@mrmandelbrot Texas clearly has 1 timeout left, which they were charged after turning the ball over with the "5 second violation". And even if they were given a T and AZ makes both free throws it's a tie game with 14.5 seconds and Texas' ball. I'm not sure I'd call this blown call a "favor". I know it's tempting being the internet and all, but try and think before you post.

[mrwinstonb]

Cory is facing the ref at 4:16. That's irrelevant, as the count is the ref's arm motion, which is ideally supposed to approximate "real time". He clearly truncates the last motion. It was not a violation. Doesn't mean Texas hangs on, although it would be very likely.

Texas was gracious about the "maybe non-call" on Brown at the end and I haven't read about anyone, including Brown and Barnes, being upset as that is a judgement issue on the ref's part. But the 5sec violation was straight BS.

[mrwinstonb]

Cory is facing the ref at 4:16. That's irrelevant, as the count is the ref's arm motion, which is ideally supposed to approximate "real time". He clearly truncates the last motion. It was not a violation. Doesn't mean Texas hangs on, although it would be very likely.

[ErinRules12]

perhaps texas should have played better in the first half and then they wouldn't be in this position. aaaaaand end of story.

[dennisflemnuts]

no matter when you start your timer the inbounder clearly calls timeout while staring at the ref before the 5 second violation is called. and you can see his arm is drawn back on the 4th second of his count as timeout is called. really just unfortunate we didnt get to see what would have happened on the next inbound play.

[inyourmind11]

Really depends where you start the count. The rules do not state when the count should begin other then at the beginning of the play. If the ref started his count when he threw the ball to the player it took just about 5 second until the call.

[prepchuck]

@inyourmind11 Rules don't need to state when to stat the count because the counts is supposed to be based on the Refs arms movements, not any internal clock. You can clearly see the ref truncate his 5th movement leading to the 5 second violation. Even beyond that obvious error, at 4.16 on the timer you can see the player calling TO and the ref's arm still completely bent before he even begins his truncated count. It doesn't matter when the timer starts, the player's call beat the ref's. The End.

[tpstrat14]

@inyourmind11 oops. you're an idiot. "Just about" ain't good enough. A five second call should always be lenient in the way of the inbounder. It's like in baseball, the umps are told that if they perceive that there is a tie between the runner and the fielder, he is suppposed to call it in favor of the runner. But this wasn't very close to a tie. It was 4.5 seconds at the most. You are not bright

[inyourmind11]

@tpstrat14 You're really worked up on that comment. You should really calm down. I was measuring about 4.8 to 5.2 seconds if you count it from when the ref throws the ball to the player. It was the refs call for when to start the count. And it is the refs job to determine who to side with on a close call. By the way insulting someones intelligence never helps an argument.

[tpstrat14]

@inyourmind11 It's the ref's call for when to start the count? In your mind can he start it before he throws him the ball I wonder? Is that how you're getting 4.8 to 5.2 seconds? Cause it's pretty clear that it is a MAXIMUM of 4.5 seconds. And it could be argued that he gave the inbounder as little as 4.1 or 4.2 seconds to call timeout or inbound it. Look at when the inbounder turns his head to the ref. THAT is when the timeout has been called.... at about 4.4 seconds in.

[inyourmind11]

@tpstrat14 When he threw the ball and before the player caught it could be when the ref started the count.

[tpstrat14]

@inyourmind11 You haven't watched the video yet, I guess. There was no "throw"...uggghh... I hate talking with complete idiots. He HANDED him the ball and in this case it was a perfectly clean hand off and the player was ready to pass it in instantly...., so I don't blame the ref for starting the clock right when the player got the ball. Nonetheless, max of 4.5 seconds. Sorry for insulting you, but you're being incredibly stupid, naive and thoughtless.

[mtcuppmore]

@inyourmind11 Refer to my comments below. There is so much chicanery to your reasoning u should be embarrassed. Just stick to the facts as clearly illustrated in my comments. Time out is called as refs arm is coming back to his chest (as soon as it hits his chest that indicates he has counted 4.5 seconds). His arm was barely halfway back equalling 4 and quarter secs. This is a great example of why Coaches Challenge similar to Fball should be implemented. No ones perfect, but .8sec off? C'mon

[Arcazjin]

Lets analyze every shot Brown took in the second half and find a few missed calls.

[russelpad12]

TEXAS SCREWED BADDDDDLLY..... feel sorry for the horns because they had a legit shot at a final four or more... O well, always next year as long as RICHARD CARTMELL isn't officating

[zepprx]

Referee was a Pac-10 official (Richard Cartwell). That explains the unfair call!

[pddust]

Too bad GomerJones doesn't have good enough vision to actually see where the ball is when looking frame to frame. Nice post MauryJacks.

[gomerjones]

Too bad I'm looking at a frame where the player has the ball and you little timer isn't on the screen counting yet. Better try next time.



[MauryJacks]

@gomerjones

I am guessing you meant "your little timer". Download it and put it in an editing program. Then tell me that the timer doen't start when he touches the ball.

[gomerjones]

@MauryJacks Oooo, spelling/grammar smack on the internet. That was old in 1995.