Ultra-Climber on 2008 Fargo Hill Climb

[PaddyMacNasty]

That was pretty funny.

[horsey604]

I also like waffles, but why didnt you just walk ?

[zion14582]

τερμα γιωταδες

[bangcock502]

thats one steep ass hill dude. i dare someone to go do downhill on that thing on the bike.

[TheMango121]

THIS IS GREAT!

I love the speed you start at haha

[CyclistLorax]

To all of you who didn't read the description, the point of the bike was not speed relative to walking, it was proof of low speed stability via rider geometry, and demonstration of aerobic climbing via low gearing on a single ratherthan tandem frame. If you make a dumb, "Whhy didn't you just walk" comments, you will be blocked and your comment will be deleted.

[omgwaffles09]

this is pointless. you could walk with the bike faster

[CyclistLorax]

@omgwaffles09 - Did you read the description? Or were you distracted yet again by waffles?

The point was recreational engineering and proof of concept for low gearing and low speed stability on a single bike.

[omgwaffles09]

@CyclistLorax U don't like waffles >:(

[CyclistLorax]

@omgwaffles09 - I love waffles! I like it better when Parry Gripp asks, "Do you like waffles?"

[ymirtismpalas]

@CyclistLorax It's true. I WAS entertained! :D

[tdwisniewski]

so slow, like turtles having sex

[CyclistLorax]

@tdwisniewski - One wonders why you watch turtles having sex? Care to elaborate?

[bipedalame]

i would have used a mountain bike.

[CyclistLorax]

@bipedalame - Mtn bike is heavier and has less traction and more rolling resistance with the low pressure tires.

[bipedalame]

@CyclistLorax your statement is true. however, low gearing is king climbing ultra steep hills. you can fit high pressure slicks to a mtb. mr low gear is my point. he is converting a high geared bike to a low geared bike by using extra cogs and a longer very inefficient chain. his mechanical resistance is greater than rolling resistance and gravity.

[CyclistLorax]

@bipedalame - Low gearing is king? I know of no MTB with a 7" gear! I geared this bike much lower than any MTB. The chain is not much longer and the inefficiency is not realted to length, it's related to deflection angle, which was very low for the setup I used. More importantly, a MTB has a high rider position relative to a road bike and this badly compromises stability. Do notice that I lowered the rider position vastly more than the cross frame's head tube would support, a MTB is worse.

[Physikcal1]

thats a cool vid, love the ingenious varieties of bike/gearing u have there. we have a few hills that hit 30£ ere in Wales and u have to love the big hard climbs

[dudelivestrong]

king of the hill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[getplaning]

That's cool. Slow, but cool.

[trum4schilke]

chuck mangoine!

[willbraithw]

shift



[CyclistLorax]

@willbraithw - I did, between climbs, not on the climb becasue the stress on the chain is too high. After four climbs I broke the chain during an upshift in preparing for climb 5, where I had planned to use the next higher gear.

[CyclistLorax]

@CyclistLorax - The next higher gear was a 10" gear.

[diggler2002]

I liked the music. Should have edited the footage.

[CyclistLorax]

@diggler2002 - I did edit the footage (look at the cuts from tripod to the hend-held camera)! And the purpose was to demonstrate to some naysayers that I really did climb the entire hill, multiple times.

[piccalocb]

@CyclistLorax Should've done the Benny Hill song.. And Fast Forward just to see the pedalling speed.

[CyclistLorax]

@piccalocb - The name of the piece is Yakety Sax, and no, my cadence was fast enough. I didn't make this video to amuse you, but then you'd know that if you read the description.

[TimpBizkit]

Try climbing this hill on a penny farthing ha ha

[TimpBizkit]

There's a hill about as steep as this in Bath called North Lane. It's a little alley way going up from bathwick hill to north road. It's much shorter than Fargo Street and I was trying to see what speed I could go up it. I once managed a peak of 11mph with a run up. I was scaring some girls who were walking up it by charging my mtb at 8mph up it!!

[thierryroucourt]

this goes too slow...

[CyclistLorax]

@thierryroucourt - Indeed! That was the point! 8-)

[mikecampton]

This video could be 2 mins long.

[CyclistLorax]

@mikecampton - And you comment could have been 10 characters long.

[bh319644]

A little Herb Alpert and some Chuck...love it.

[newlyborn09]

...ok interesting idea, but when would one need this? and what happens to the handlebars/saddle when the gradient tapers out? I mean seriously, one dosen't come across 32% gradients often...

[CyclistLorax]

@newlyborn09 - Did you read the description? The bike was created to demonstrate low speed stability such that a hill like Fargo could be climbed aerobically. That you imagine it being used elsewhere means you don't seem to grasp why I developed it. It's a special purpose proof of concept bike. As far as I know, I'm the first to make a bike with a gear reduction on a single frame, most do it with a tandem.

[newlyborn09]

@CyclistLorax Yes, but what is the point of developing such a concept bike? For the sole purpose of climbing 32% gradient hills?

[CyclistLorax]

@newlyborn09 - By Jove, I think he's got it! Yes, the purpose was to prove a concept, and the enjoyable recreational engineering necessary to make the concept real.

[newlyborn09]

@CyclistLorax Ok well, I forgive you for the sarcasm and I hope it was worth your time and effort.

[TimpBizkit]

What are all the gear sizes and reductions?

[CyclistLorax]

@TimpBizkit - here are the chainring and cog sizes and absolute ratios: Left Drive: 20 x 45, Right Drive: 20 x 32 (1:3.6 or 7.5") and 20 x 28 (1:3.15 or 8.6") on a 27" wheel. The rear cassette is a 12-32 8sp XTR titanium set.

[TimpBizkit]

@CyclistLorax below ~14" your feet are moving faster than the ground ha ha

[arklat]

I climbed it on my regular race bike, a Colnago Super, with a 42x21, which is, I believe, a 54" gear. And I went straight up it. This was in 1977. I weighed 129 lbs, and had already won three races. I had just moved up to category 3. I lived at the time in the LA area, so we rode there from my house in Sierra Madre. I did it twice that day.

[kinered]

@arklat ¿42 plate and 21 in a wheel?? ¿who are you, the father of Lance Armstrong?. In climb over 20% i need to use my mountain bike, with 39 x 34...

[CyclistLorax]

@ithinksasukeiscool - So you feel an entitlement to tell me that my time is wasted? The world doesn't work that way. I decide what is or isn't a waste of my time. You are a sick and quite uninvited lifestly cop. Holding my ground probably does look defensive to those who feel an entitlement to judge me and my time. Now this may come as quite a shock to your tiny judgmental mind, but the entire purpose of posting this video was to entertain those few that could appreciate the engineering.

[TimpBizkit]

As fast as I can exercise for 20 min to 1 hour, I could go about 2-3mph up the hill. So to get 90rpm I would need about 10 gear inches to sustain the climb at the most comfortable seated pedaling speed.

[TimpBizkit]

How long is the hill? About 0.1 miles. I could probably spin up it in my 22/32 and get to the top in just under a minute. My lighter road bike has a 30/32 which is above the optimum sustainable ratio but could probably make it. I'd weave diagonally to get a better cadence. If it was a really long hill. I think I would use the ultraclimber. It's nice to climb a really steep hill and look back and go wow that was easy!

[blengravers]

what candance? seemed a little quick.

[ttt8699]

at the 3/6/11 annual Fargo climb, I became the first person in history to successfully climb Fargo street...on a UNICYCLE! And I did it twice! Go to my channel at ttt8699 and look for "Fargo Street Hill Climb 2011 "UNIGEEZER" MAKES HISTORY!"

[zenmachinefilms]

The Tour of California needs to have a stage finish on the top of this hill. :-)

[ttt8699]

My name is Terry, aka, "UniGeezer", and I will be attacking this hill *straight* up with no snaking...ON MY UNICYCLE! Tentative date is Sunday, 2/13/11. I'll be getting there around 9am. Feel free to join me or just watch!

[spdrecrd]

Neat idea. When making the alterations to the bike did you retain the ability to shift the rear derailleur?

[CyclistLorax]

@spdrecrd - The rear derailleur is fully functional. I added a second fixed deraileur cage, attached to a front deraileur clamp, to route the chain around the lower bottom bracket to return to the rear derailleur. You can see this in the still photo in the other Fargo video I posted with only helmet camera footage.

[tibaal89]

Awesome! I can't even imagine a 7" gear... but then again, I can't imagine a 32% road either! Neat concept, very cool to see.

[CyclistLorax]

@deridealetod - Wouldn't it be faster if you just used your eyes to read the description above?

[CyclingBros]

HAHAHAHA this is hilarious!! The maker of this bike obviously dosnt know that climbing is about taking the pain and dealing with it, not making a whole new bike designed to go 3mp up a hill in 7min... What is this garbage?

[CyclistLorax]

@CyclingBros - Looks like you missed the point of the bike. It was to demonstrate that which you deride. This "garbage" is called recreational engineering. I can take pain as well as, if not better than the next person, and I've done a lot of climbing rides like the "Death Ride". The false dichotomy you present is just sophomoric.

[teenmakeupholic]

@CyclistLorax Mr: when I climb over 20% in my mountain bike (seat) my front wheel bounce, by traction of my arms. I noted that the shape of your bike can avoid this reaction. But I think that tilt can't keep the stability at low speed (as you say in 0:59). The stability of bicicle only is keeping by the "cyroscope effect" of the wheels. Whit this lows speed the only for to avoid is to keep the center of mass low.

[CyclistLorax]

@teenmakeupholic - The gyroscope effect of wheels stabilizinga bicycle is a myth. This was proven by MIT researchers who cancelled ot the effect by mounting counter rotating wheels on top of the normal wheels of a bike. They rode just fine. The balance is an interplay between the rider inputs of legs and arms. besides at very low wheel rotation speeds, as seen in this video, there are no discernable gyroscope effects. More in the next reply.

[CyclistLorax]

@teenmakeupholic - The low speed stability is simply a result of keeping more weight on the front wheel (on a regular MTN bike the front wheel is not weighted enough for the slope), which is what the forward and downward canted position achieves when the bike is on an 18 degree slope. It was a bit of work to mount a tandem stoker stem and triathlon seat post, but the results were wonderful, as the bike is remarkably stable at very low speeds, as seen in the image in the video with dashed lines.

[CyclistLorax]

@erichwic - I'm not a biker, I'm a cyclist, and you totally missed the point of the bike. It was sepcifically designed to demonstrate stable aerobic climbing at very low speed.

[120psi]

Dear lord, I could run 0.11 miles faster than that (and I'm not a runner).

[CyclistLorax]

@120psi - So put on a 20.5 pound backpack (the weight of the bike) and run up that hill and make sure you videotape it and post it, otherwise STFU.

[MrWhybotherwithme]

why would you make a road on that hill

[CyclistLorax]

@MrWhybotherwithme - Back in the early days of motoring, before the latter 1920s, developers were laying out road grids in places like LA, Pittsburgh, and even parts of Australia, without concerning themselves about road grade. This resulted in some very steep roads (grades above 30%) in the Silverlake area of LA, a Road in pittsburgh of close to 37%, and one in Australia that is supposed to be over 38% for a short pitch. LA, in the late 20s required all new roads have grades 15% or less.

[vega2614]

I wish I could do this ride, but too far away. Seems like a lot of fun. But honestly, I don't think that's 32% grade. I whipped out a protractor (yeah, I'm a dork) and measured at 2:53 and it looks to be about 20% (compared to house); veloroutes confirmed. But still, looks like a great ride and anybody that can climb it should be proud. Nice custom bike too! When I first saw it, I was thinking "that seat is at the wrong angle!"

[CyclistLorax]

@vega2614 - The grade of the hill is really between 32% and 34%. It's quite imposing when viewed from the bottom, because it's a full 50% steeper than a mere 20% grade. People have worked out detailed elevation profiles for the hill, and the steeperst part, at 34% is about the 1/4 to 1/2 way up, segment of the climb. You can check the elevations and the distance in Google Earth if you don't beleive me...

[ulfthegoon]

What percentage grade is Fargo Hill?

[CyclistLorax]

@ulfthegoon - The grade varies between 32% and 34%, and averages over 32%. I noted the grade and length on the title at the beginning of the video.

[srjone]

Wow. Boring to watch. But at least you are original!

[clairishe]

Is it viable at all for the flats and descents? Does it have a high enough gear to produce a reasonable speed?

[CyclistLorax]

@clairishe - The bike was not made for general purpose riding. It was optimized for low speed climbing.

[deezynar]

I like to ride, but watching this was as exciting as watching paint dry.

It IS cool to see a custom made machine getting the job done.

What was Dan's best time, and what was the winning time?

[CyclistLorax]

@deezynar - It's much more interesting to climb the hill than to watch! 8-) As far as I know, there was no timekeeping. The "contest" is most ascents, irrespective of time. I climbed it 4 times at which point my chain broke, though I could have climbed many more times, I had enough video to "prove" that the bike concept was viable, so I called it a morning.

[deezynar]

@CyclistLorax

Hey, thanks for the reply.

Yes, many sports are not exactly spectator thrillers.

I appreciate you clarifying the "scoring system". I assumed it was some sort of time trial.

Sorry to hear about your chain breaking. Do you still have the bike, and have you riden it up Fargo since '08?

[instinctdonniedarko]

what is your cadence - can i ask?

[CyclistLorax]

@instinctdonniedarko - My cadence was about or a little bit over 100 rpm, just like I do when spinning on the flat. The formula for speed is 0.002975 x (gear ratio in gear inches) x cadence.

So  Speed = 0.002975 x 7.5 x 100 = 2.2 mph for the first run

and Speed = 0.002975 x 8.6 x 100 = 2.6 mph for the second run

which is consistent with my speedometer on the bike.

Does this answer your question?

[instinctdonniedarko]

@CyclistLorax yes.

[schumionbike]

@CyclistLorax

how did you keep the bike up right at that speed??? sometime I clim at like 4 mph and the bike is quite unsteady already. That's a cool climb though!

[CyclistLorax]

@schumionbike - The geometery of the frame and the rider position (stem and seat post) I designed, make it much more stable then a regular bike for seated spinning at very low speed.

[CyclistLorax]

@instinctdonniedarko - About 100rpm.

[markthode]

Tight music!!

[curtisakalefty]

I'D WALK AND PUSH MY BIKE, YOUR PEDDING WAY TO MUCH

[CyclistLorax]

@curtisakalefty - I think you missed the point of the bike. Sure, I could just as well have put 20.5 lbs in a backpack and walked up the hill, but the goal was to climb straight up the hill aerobically and reasonably stably. I do believe that I can spin up the hill more easily than walking up it with the extra weight.

[4andbelow]

There was this inspirational video called why do you run. WELL.....

4:30 - 6:45 about sum it up.

[CyclistLorax]

@4andbelow - And for those of us who ran fast 15 mile runs as a teenager and found that it was destroying our knees, hips and ankles, we took it as inspiration for cycling.

[hjr88]

0:18-0:29secs was that Lady Lynda by The Beach Boys playing. It really caught my attention and this hill is something to admire. Whoever makes it up deserves some respect.

[CyclistLorax]

That's a Midi version of "Jesu, Joy of Man's desiring" by JS Bach, which happens to be my favorite rondo. I put all the music in order of first appearance in the credits.

[hjr88]

I didnt even see the credits, sorry. i was too busy watching the riders ride this insane hill. Sure does sound like the Beach Boys. For all i know they used from Bach. Thanks in any case.

[MTOTOwaNYAYO]

this is easy...u guys should try riding in Vermont or new Hampshire

[lazurm]

I've done the hill, standing, with a 32...not a problem.

[CyclistLorax]

Me too, but that was not the point of the bike; I wanted to see if I could climb the hill aerobically and stably at very low speed on a single. Most people do this with a tandem. Besides, the recreational engineering I did to design and build the bike was as much fun as spinning straight up the hill.

[MsBixy]

I'd be riding my 20lb hard tail up that hill no problem... LOL

[colinprprpr]

sure

[ajnevitt]

That is a stupid low gear!

[CyclistLorax]

For being such a "stupid" low gear, it sure took a lot of thought to put it all together!

[ajnevitt]

Stupid is a colloquialism which in this case means REALLY small. Urban dictionary my friend. Like that is a stupid steep road... get it? Nice engineering and I bet you could go up to about a twenty inch gear or so and it would be more stable with the higher speed.

[CyclistLorax]

I know the term. I was making a point about the effort it took to pull it off. I have a climbing bike with a 16" low gear, but it was not low enough for me to spin up Fargo, and the geometry was not canted downward and forward enough for the low speed stability I wanted, hence the motivation for the design. I wanted to see if I could make a bike that would be stable at 2-3 mph on that steep a grade.

[cyclenut]

I built my cross country touring bike with a 20 front 34 rear granny gear, something like 16". I'v climbed some steep hils with over 50lbs of cargo.

[ttt8699]

I just did this hill climb today, 9/26/09....

ON A UNICYCLE!!! Fixed gear 1:1! Try that, and live to tell about it!

[lax1245]

ha nice terry i saw your vid nice work keep it up!

[CyclistLorax]

I think you would have done better to have shot it with an unattended camera from the top, and if you would have asked me, I'd have been happy to shoot the video so I could zoom in on you at the bottom. Nice brute force effort and unicycle technique. What you did is nearly the opposite of what I was aiming to achieve with my special bicycle. I wanted to use engineering to make a straight ascent easier, and you used a unicycle to make the effort harder. Again: nice work!

[SireBogart]

That hill would be amazing to climb. After recently getting into road cycling, I remembered a climb near me that must go on for nearly 2 kilometres. It's absolutely brutal, especially at the start. I'd be interested to know its gradient, or if people have even attempted it.

Getting back on topic, I'm sure "old" people would love such means to tackle those daunting climbs.

[DeadlyMACD]

It should be easy to figure out. You can use a mapping site such as Ride With GPS, to get elevation data and the length of the hill. Then calculate 100*rise/run to get the gradient.

[CyclistLorax]

What is the name of the road and where is it (city, state) I can find it in google earth and relatively easily determine its average gradient.

[HOPSING08]

very good engineering and give you much respect for that. BUT i do have to say, since i am a cyclist and ride some serious hills too, i would much rather bonk and not finish than spin like that. if i bonked and couldn't do it, well then, i wasn't worthy of the climb. but you rely on your brain to get you up the hill so i respect that, i just rely on my legs and the power i can get them to generate. thanks for the post and looking forward to trying this hill in the near future.

[CyclistLorax]

So do you then agree that switch-backing up the hill is also not acceptable? After all, this turns a 32% grade into something more like a 15-16% grade. If someone wanted to climb a 16% grade, then why climb Fargo? Now to your prejudice against spinning: isn't the point of multi-geared bicycles to have a range of gears so one can always spin? So where is this magic power threshold that one must attain to climb the hill? We all age and lose power, so why not enjoy the hill while spinning?

[HOPSING08]

I do agree that switch backs arent acceptable. spinning is ok. dont get me wrong. if thats what you want to do, tackle impossible hills. spinning isnt really an option on my bike, as i have a double. instead of triple, so honestly fargo is pretty much impossible for me. But im still gonna try. i have no idea what the magic power threshold is. your invention is respected so enjoy it all you can, i would just rather cruise at 20mph average around town on a 44 mile ride. idk. just me.

[rounner]

Honestly, do you rely on good balance, or can a non expert cycle that slowly? Does the bike have a special rake or other geometry to allow for such speeds?

[CyclistLorax]

I used an off-the-shelf Aluminum cross bike with a carbon fork. I wasn't concerned about rake, what mattered was chainstay length. This frame has 45mm chanistays, longer than a typical bike and this puts the rear whel further back relative to the rider position (resists pitch-back). The geometry that matters most is what I imposed with the choice of seatpost and handlebar stem creating a "normal" rider position relative to the vertical while the bike is pitched up at ~ 18 deg. (32% grade).

[CyclistLorax]

I'm not a guy that can balance a track bike all day, though my low speed bike handling skills are very good, since I teach traffic skills and practice bike handling drills. The key to riding the bike is patience. At very low speeds steering corrections take a lot longer to change the lean of the bike, so one has to wait longer for the correction to re-right the bike. You will notice in the video that a few times I overcorrected and moved over laterally more than my average corrections.

[eRRRRs]

wow, that was amazing. real slow but i guess it gets the job done. If the old guy can do it, good for him.

[CyclistLorax]

I'm the "old guy" (Dan), and yes it was rather amazing that the bike was as stable as it was at such low speeds; I had expected it to be more difficult to control. I used to be able to chrage up hills like Fargo anaerobically when I was your age (24), but the point of the bike was to climb aerobically and stably. This old guy appreciates your feedback! ;-)

[freeworldofskiing]

i guess it would be good for spinning lol

200rpm and 10 kph

[CyclistLorax]

You guess it would be good for spinning? I told you so in the video. In fact spinning up such a steep grade was half the point of the bike. The other half being geometry that creates stability at very low speeds. Have you ever cycled up a grade of 30% or more? It's not like "steep" hills in the 10-20% range; low speed stability becomes a real issue.

[TimpBizkit]

And I thought my 18 inch gear was low. If I got the 2.75:1 mountain drive I'd have you beat with a 6.5 inch gear but I'd probably only need it for riding up walls!!

[dygituljunky]

That's an interesting combination.

I wonder how difficult it would be for me to set up a similar mid-crankset with changeable gears to give ultra low gearing, standard gearing, and ultra-high gearing.

The ideal application for this setup is on an already stable platform such as a trike or quad, especially on a recumbent.

I'm interested because I'd be towing a trailer with heavy stuff like dog food, cat litter, or a lawnmower in a hilly area.

Nice job CyclistLorax!

[penguinpunter]

lmao!, thats so stupid, in a race your not gonna get your "ultra-climb" bike out the support car and cradle your way up the pyranese, stay in your big ring and power your way up it

[CyclistLorax]

What race? The point of the bike was to demonstrate that ultra-low gearing and stability at very low speeds were possible on a lightweight bike. This is a special purpose bike I engineered/built for climbing Fargo Street, and others like it, it is not a bike for racing. None of the grades in the TdF are even half as steep as Fargo Street; it is not a hill to be climbed on the big ring. Try it some time on the big ring and make sure someone is shooting video so we can see you fail!

[TimpBizkit]

Yeah - the bike'll probably start going backwards lol!

[voicetube]

AWESOME bike and vid!!

BTW, I looked up "Ultra Climber" but could not find that bicycle by that name; what is the actual brand and model? Thanks.

[CyclistLorax]

I coined the name "Ultra Climber" for the special one-of-a-kind bike I designed and built for spinning up Fargo Street. I used an Al cross frame from Performance (long chain stays/wheelbase + carbon fork) so I could add a bottom bracket adapter for the second crank to lower the gearing into the 7" range. I used commercial parts, including a tandem stoker stem, and forward-canted seatpost. The forward chain idler is the cage and pulleys of a rear derailleur mounted to a front derailleur clamp.

[voicetube]

Oh, Ok, cool, thanks man! I may be attempting Fargo this week (Monday) with my Segway!!

[kd5fdw]

I thought this was all a spoof! I guess Fargo Street is not nearly as flat as Fargo, North Dakota.

[ImaTWAZZOCK]

No one gives the Gear ratios that are used for the guy that holds record for this..its easy if you have a low gear just takes slightly longer to pedal up thats all.When someone posts the gears that were used ill be impressed.

[CyclistLorax]

What guy that holds the record? I'm not sure what you are asking. Have you ever pedaled a sub 10" gear up a very steep grade (>25%) on a bike with regular geometry? I did post the gear ratios a the top of the frame: 7.5" for climb #1 and 8.6" for climb #2. Just in case you don't know what gear inches mean, here are the chainring and cog sizes and absolute ratios: Left Drive: 20 x 45, Right Drive: 20 x 32 (1:3.6 or 7.5") and 20 x 28 (1:3.15 or 8.6") on a 27" wheel.

[waariors]

Avg speed is not quite a fast walk. But hey, it's a good solution to applied laziness.

[CyclistLorax]

So what speed in your opinion constitutes the lower threshold speed for a "fast walk" up a 32% grade for 0.11 miles? Do remember to factor in the weight of the bicycle, say as a backpack weighing as much as the bike I was riding (20 lbs). Have you ever walked up Fargo St. or a road of comparable length and grade with a 20 pound backpack and measured your speed, or is this just amrchair philosophizing (a kind of intellectual laziness) on your part?

[joaopaulogv]

that´s the way to kill the real climb move. this is a cool climb, and climb in that way with that gear kill the funnyest part.

[CyclistLorax]

So please tell us what you consider to be the "funnyest" part of the climb. And while you are at it, could you please explain what you mean by "the real climb move" that I apparently killed?

[jumpflyz]

That was fun to see your bike in action at the Fargo Hill climb. VERY Clever Dan and VERY Impressive ;)

[Seebonk]

Fun to see. Any idea of your heart rate or % of max hr?