Make Pam Listen - Vote YES on the Budget

[PositiveEnerG]

Clearly, we disagree. I respect your opinion. I also think that mine is quite valid. If one BELIEVES that we will have a $3 billion tax increase and BELIEVES that there will be NO tax cuts, that person, in good conscience AS A CONSERVATIVE must vote against the referral. If one believes as you do, they could justify supporting it (as many have). But the referral doesn't affect current budget. Bottom line is the if there is no budget, it's all the Governor's fault and no one else's.

[BillyReagan]

Bottom line is, how bad can this bill be when hardcore conservatives like Grover Norquist, John Shadegg, Wall Street Journal, AZ Free Enterprise Club, and 47 out of 53 GOP leg's support it? I mean even Russell Pearce supported it.

They understand, as 67% of Gorman's likely Republican voters do, that this does not raise taxes.

We need a budget now before we run out of cash. I'm willing to take a chance on a temporary sales tax so we can have permanent tax cuts that will bring in new businesses.

[Nautilus3333]

Sales taxes hurt consumers pal.

[BillyReagan]

Yes, you're right, Nautilus. Sales taxes do hurt consumers. But that's not what we're arguing. We're arguing whether the sales tax provision even matters because I believe it will not pass at the ballot.

As a conservative, I don't like taxes. But I know Gov. Brewer won't sign a budget without the referral, so let's just give her what she wants, so that we can balance our books again, avoid insolvency, get our permanent tax cuts, and see the sales tax hike fail at the ballot.

[Nautilus3333]

I comprehend what you're saying. You make some really reasonable points.

[BillyReagan]

It does not raise taxes. It refers the tax to the voters. Stop calling it a tax hike, when it's not. And if they want to pass it, so be it; it's their choice.

Even if it does pass, it's temporary...in exchange for massive tax cuts that are permanent. I know you claim the tax HIKE won't be temporary, while simultaneously claiming the CUTS won't be permanent. But you can't have it both ways, picking and choosing scenarios that fit your argued outcome.

[PositiveEnerG]

It's like the Democrats are controlling the Republicans here. Republicans vote for corporate tax cuts (which never even happen), while socking it to the voters for $3 billion in increased taxes. Bad policy. Horrible politics. It's like the good old boys club is seriously lacking in strategic political thinkers and strategists. This is how states go from Republican to Democrat.

[PositiveEnerG]

Polling shows tax hike passing comfortably. It won't be temporary (never are).

Gorman promised VOTERS she would oppose proposals like this, raising taxes by $3 billion. Her district may vote against tax, but they'll still be forced to pay after it passes.

Illusory cuts are gone by simple majority, not a 2/3 vote according to every leg atty on staff. Entitled to your opinion, but I think that Gorman, Crump, Gould, Waring and Biggs are on right side in opposing largest tax hike in AZ history.

[BillyReagan]

And furthermore, when you get right-wing, anti-tax fiscal conservatives like Grover Norquist, the Wall Street Journal, John Shadegg, and the AZ Free Enterprise Club to support something like this, you KNOW it's good for conservatives.

These people don't just pass out praise like hotcakes.

It says something about this budget that conservatives EVERYWHERE support it. It says that it's a conservative budget. A conservative like Pam Gorman ought to realize that and stop playing politics.

[PositiveEnerG]

The permanent repeal of the property tax (which amounts to about $67 family is on the Governor's desk with Senator Gorman's support (3 times). There are no PERMANENT tax cuts. There is very little chance that any tax cuts take effect (and most won't effect individual taxpayers like the sales tax will. Any conservative would be CRAZY to put it on the ballot when special interests will spend millions getting it passed. She's choosing taxpayers over special interests. You may prefer otherwise.

[BillyReagan]

Conservatives would be crazy NOT to put it on the ballot. Arizona is a conservative state that has defeated tax increases many times in the past. Even CA defeated theirs.

Are you saying Pam Gorman thinks voters are too stupid that they would let special interests sway their vote so easily? She must not think much of them.

And these ARE PERMANENT tax cuts. It takes a 2/3 majority to raise taxes. We can barely get 50% to pass these tax CUTS...What makes you think we can get 2/3 to RAISE taxes?

[PositiveEnerG]

Idiots. Don't even realize that Senator Gorman DID vote for the budget. She just didn't vote for the $1 billion tax referral (which is NOT part of the budget). She also supported the repeal of the property tax. It was vetoed by the Governor. Twice. And she supported it in the budget most recently. And supported an amendment that was defeated by the Senate. This is dishonest and laughable. And does it have a disclaimer? Hmmm....

[BillyReagan]

If Pam Gorman REALLY supports a permanent repeal of the property tax, she'll vote for the budget package!

Does she not understand that it has PERMANENT tax cuts in exchange for a POSSIBLE, TEMPORARY sales tax hike that WILL NOT PASS at the ballot?

Does she not trust the voters??

Her delay tactics and oversized ego are hurting Arizona. We're running out of cash, and without a budget, we risk seeing a $250 million property tax hike and sliding into a CA-style crisis.

I want my tax cuts dammit!