A Historian Sees Zeitgeist

[Hercules2345]

Dr. Chris Forbes apparently needs to read the book Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection, a nearly 600 page book, is full of the kind of evidence that Dr Forbes claims doesn't exist.

freethoughtnation. com /forums/viewtopic. php?p=18956#p18956

[MarioSavioTZM]

"John Dickson is an Australian writer, historian, current senior minister of St Andrew's Anglican Church, Roseville, Australia, and an Honorary Associate of the Department of Ancient History at Macquarie University. He is also co-founder and director of the Centre for Public Christianity" I rest my case.

[OnlineBibleMinistry]

@MarioSavioTZM How dare the man have PhD in Ancient History and an academic position. Shame on him.

[MarioSavioTZM]

'We asked one historian with Christian friends to analyze the film!' - 'No serious historian doubts that Jesus existed' - as far as I know there are many. Also... Eh wait a sec...are we not debating 'ancient evidence' for a self ressurected half falcon half man God type thing.Clearly the very fact that there is no evidence whatsoever that any of these entities existed other than people thousands of years simply... saying they did... I find the entire premise of the interview laughable. Nice try

[OnlineBibleMinistry]

@MarioSavioTZM Okay, provide the citations of peer-reviewed academic work by these "many" ancient historian that doubts Jesus existed. I am aware of none which isn't quite many as you claim.

[dhaddox]

He said Horus was cut up and reassembled. I think he was confusing it with Osiris. Still, that only proves his point all the more.

[djkhaless]

Horus was cut into pieces eh?

"Horus was born to the goddess Isis after she retrieved all the dismembered body parts of her murdered husband Osiris, except his penis which was thrown into the Nile and eaten by a catfish"

^ Ian Shaw (2003). The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt. Oxford University Press

[MURDOCMULDOON]

They say you can only walk the path of christ which is to believe in him and surrender to his preachings. You will not be redeemed for you preconcived sins , they indicate a child is a sinner in simply existing. If you fail to do this ...you are a mortal compared to the immortal who believes in surrender for jesus . Only one way to a meaning ful life ? lol

Now when the organisation devoted to jesus cant even walk the talk they talk... why listend to them...

priests rape kids...enough said

[HermitintheRain]

@MURDOCMULDOON What you described as the path of Christ is one of the first heresies the apostles confronted-namely that which was known as gnosticism. This idea that Jesus only showed the way, and that we had to follow in it to be saved is the lie of gnosticism.

[HermitintheRain]

@MURDOCMULDOON The true gospel states that our sins are paid for by Jesus Christ, that by the work of the Holy Spirit giving us life by the blood of Jesus is marked in that soul by the gift of faith from the Holy Spirit received upon hearing of the word of God. What is done by Jesus is the work of salvation. There is nothing that man can do to accomplish it. It is ALL, without addition or subtraction, solely the work of God.

[HermitintheRain]

@MURDOCMULDOON Throughout the OT we see foreshadowings of this fact and prophecies concerning God's work in redeeming his people. The words of Abraham to Isaac when he said, 'God shall provide HIMSELF a sacrifice' and when Jeremiah was told that God would send salvation by him who is named: Jehovah-Tsidkenuh (the LORD our Righteousness) it is here that we begin to rightly understand the words of Paul.

[HermitintheRain]

@MURDOCMULDOON Where it is especially made poignant in 2 Corinthians 5 where the Holy Spirit through Paul reveals that Jesus: For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. It is in Jesus, literally, that we have salvation. It is not in our walking like Jesus walked, or living like Jesus lived. Lets be honest. Even if we wanted to, none of us could walk or live like Jesus.

[HermitintheRain]

@MURDOCMULDOON If our salvation was to be based on how well we lived like Jesus, we would all, every single one of us be damned where we stand. As the book of Romans made clear, that we couldn't even keep the Law of Moses, which was a shadow of Christ; what makes anyone think that in themselves they are able to meet the standard of walking like Jesus?

[HermitintheRain]

@MURDOCMULDOON My only hope, any soul's only hope, is in the work of Jesus himself. That what he did on that cross is all anyone ever needs for the hope of salvation. Anyone who has been changed by God through the word of that gospel, will indeed find a new relationship with both God and sin. Whereas before there was war with God and love with sin, now there is love of God in Christ and a hatred and war with sin.

[HermitintheRain]

@MURDOCMULDOON My hope of victory over sin is not in what I do. My faith in victory is in the finished work of Jesus who is my Victory. It is his work, that provides grace for an otherwise hopeless sinner like me. I fight each day against sin, and I often fall. But I find the Lord lifts me up every time, to fight on another day. That I keep fighting, is not a testimony to my vigilance, but a testimony to Jesus keeping his promise of being with me always to the end.

[tasfastas]

Hey, I started with this question, immediately at 3:46... and Dr. John Dickson is as credible as... a Christian salesman or an historian charlatan. Take a look at this mister: IT WASN'T HORUS WHO WAS CHOPPED BY PIECES AND COLLECTED BY ISIS! IT WAS OSIRIS HIS FATHER, THE RESURRECTED GOD, WHO WAS SLAUGHTERED BY SETH HIS BROTHER, AND AFTER GATHERED BY HIS SISTER-WIFE ISIS AND REBORN! These pseudo-historical scholars trying to debunk are just ridiculous to Scientific community or enlightenment.

[HermitintheRain]

@tasfastas I am a Christian, and yes it was noticed that he pointed out Horus in error as the one who was chopped up. This in no way invalidates the other evidence presented. Am sure he would confess to having misspoke on the matter. Am sure you have misspoken information in your life time, and appreciated those who have not held you to the fire when you did it.

[draco003]

All you need to do is to read the bible from page one of the O.T to the last page of N.T

If you read the N.T first, you will not understand anything. Jesus is the Morning Star.

Lucifer is the Morning Star. You don't need a Pastor to explain the bible to you, make your own interpretation. There are references to the SUN throughout the bible. It is filled with Astrology. If Jesus is real, then Zeus is real. If you look deep enough, you will find New World Order from the bible too.

[hypernation2007]

@draco003 Great! Now I have evidence that the flying spaghetti monster is true as well!! ;-)

Great comment.

[HermitintheRain]

@draco003 What hogwash. There are actual physical evidences of the existence of Jesus. Not even the ancient Greeks, who first told the myth of Zeus, ever once created any evidence, other than their own man-made idols of him to his actual existence. Lucifer is not the Morning Star. That liberalism has forced the Bible to rename Lucifer as the Morning Star is but one other area where the enemies of God are warring.

[anderesaxz]

@OnlineBibleMinistry

Hum, we now the jesus from the NT existed... but what about the real jesus? Do we have any strong evidence and biographical info about him?...

There are of course non christian sources about jesus, most of them way later ...

I'm not saying Zeitgeist is right, course not, its a shit... but  is there a way to know if a man, named jesus really lived back then?

[OnlineBibleMinistry]

@anderesaxz The New Testamnet is filled with biographical information about him. The Gospels are generally seen as belonging to the genre of "Greco-Roman biographies".

[zmode82]

Does anyone still take this documentary serious nowadays?

[LogosApologia]

@zmode82 unfortunately a lot of impressionable young people were deceived by it.

[tasfastas]

@zmode82 which one, Zeitgeist or this full of crap pseudo debunkers? At least they're quid quo pro both of them

[zmode82]

@tasfastas Gee! I don't know, let's see if we can figure this out, teamwork, ok? If this video is an interview, and not a documentary, than what do you think I meant?

[OnlineBibleMinistry]

Okay, that is probably the most silly comment I have read on this video in a while. They believe it because of the overwhelming literary and archaeological evidence. Comparing that the the legend of Santa Claus is, at best, stupid.

[danieljliversLXXXIX]

There's no evidence that the Jesus, as desribed in the New Testament, existed and no reason to think that he did. Even historians are to afraid to criticize and disprove the sacred cow of the culture.

[OnlineBibleMinistry]

There is no evidence that Jesus described into the New Testament existed. Yet you cite the NT which contains numerous independent sources multiply attesting to Jesus' existence?

So if numerous reports of Jesus of Nazareth existing isn't evidence, then what is? A video recording on Youtube?

[NananomNsamanfo]

the NT is not a historical text.

[OnlineBibleMinistry]

Now, why isn't the NT a historical text? Everyone in the world seems to believe it is. What makes you different?

[danieljliversLXXXIX]

The number of people who believes it does not weigh to its validity. Also, not everyone believes it. His opinion is just as relevent as yours.

[OnlineBibleMinistry]

The number doesn't, but the sound reasoning why is why it is valid. Maybe you can prove me wrong. Tell us why you disagree with all reputable scholarships conclusions and reasons, and that the numerous documents within the NT no longer count as evidence.

[danieljliversLXXXIX]

There are no reports of a Jesus of Nazareth. Nazareth didn't even exist at the time. The New Testament is a fictitious work created by Roman Aristocrats. It is a work of fiction.

[ivlfounder]

There are records of Nazareth's existance but they are few for (among other reasons) it was a small community.

[OnlineBibleMinistry]

And for that reason, it is remarkable that we have evidence of an obscure place in an obscure and relatively unimportant part of the world at the time. One of the great falllacies in arguing that Jesus existed (in addition to rejecting all the historical evidence by default) - they argue that the silence of obscure people some how counts against the facts. George W. Bush isn't going to write about me in his memoirs, therefore I didn't exist?

[danieljliversLXXXIX]

Jesus wouldn't be obscure. He's mentioned as a healer, whom I'd bet would be known to quite a number of people; and raised him self from the dead for all eyes to see. With that, every person on earth would have know about him. Yet there is nothing on him until a century later. (all references are to a "Christ" which was a common title). You write about falacies while you make a giant one.

[OnlineBibleMinistry]

Roman Judaea was an obscure region. The interest of extant authors from around the period is minimal at best. We have no reason for people thousands of km away to have been recording the day to day activities of Jesus.

You say nothing until a century later? Is it that you don't know the evidence, or how many years a century is equal to?

[OnlineBibleMinistry]

Hahahaha. We have the remains of a house in Nazareth from the time of Jesus as well as multiple references to it. My oh my, you should really read a book or something.

[danieljliversLXXXIX]

It is a known fact that the town called "Nazerath" did not exist until well after the time of the Jesus character. A remains of a house? Yes. I'm sure you'll find many in any given location and can date from any given period. And I have read many.

[OnlineBibleMinistry]

A "fact"? By fact, of course, you mean something like 2 people in the whole world believe, while real scholars and archaeologists seem to have a consensus far away from your fiction.

[Youlube32]

You are going to have to elaborate more on what you call research (not trying to be a dick or anything) because that could mean so many different things. Research as in you've taken college courses on the subject? Research as in you've actually seen some of these sources or done archeological work in Egypt? Or research as in you have read a couple of books on it. No serious historian (and I have yet to find an egyptologist) who doubts that Jesus existed within the first century.

[zaqwsxcderfv001]

Everything in Zeitgeist 1 was lies. You don't have to be Christian to realise that. They just took a load of religious and mythological characters, and applied the events of Jesus' life to them. They even made some names up. Major, major FAIL!

Because Zeitgeist was so wrong on religion, nothing else it says can be taken seriously.

[micap20078]

this historian is such a liar or stupid! it is widely known that horus right eye was the sun and his left was the moon ra & horus are closely associated. they are both the sun

"nubian spirit the african legacy of the nile" documentary has historians blantantly explaining isis was the original virgin osiris dies and is ressurected 3 days later horus ascends to meet his father in heaven.then they sit on the throne of judgment. egyptians even carry crosses like christiansREILGION IS PAGAN

[TerraFirma92]

@micap20078

Lol..The majority of New Testament scholars--Christian and non-Christian-- don't agree with your statements.

Furthermore this historian which is "a liar or stupid" shows your ignorance.

Have you even read any of his work?

[micap20078]

@terrafirma92

hes proved he doesnt know anything.

obviously the bible is mythology nothing about is orignal and its mostly corrupt i pity anyone who falls for religion and even the media and egyptologists says religion came from egypt so just check out videos on my channel "egyptian book of the dead" "cities of the underworld" "the hidden story of jesus" and dont bother me again.

[Watchdawg]

@micap20078 Yeah, and imagine all the documents which were destroyed back then, yet they fall for just a little piece of information compared to all the information that none has a clue about today.

[Youlube32]

It would appear that non-christians are just as unaware of the same information they claim to know about. No serious historian doubts that Jesus existed and no historian in antiquity holds that the Jesus story was a mere by-product of Egyptian legends, especially since some of the supposed parallels (born of a virgin on dec 25) do not even apply to the Egyptian stories). Do research and you will know why no serious historian accepts the claims of this movie.

[zaqwsxcderfv001]

@micap20078

Yeh, when your belief system which is based on a youtube movie falls apart, just SHOUT your wishful thinking.

[SilentPrayingmanTis]

Jesus was born in the summer time. Do research fools..

[markpasky08]

Ra-Harakhte is the sun God of Egypt I just looked it up and he is a combo of horus and ra so perhaps I was half wrong on that one. It is still a whole new entity. Horus has many forms. and he is usually a falcon. He was born by Isis having SEX with a dead dismembered body so how is that a virgin? And the gregorian calendar was not invented back then so dec25? NO! Also, the bible says jesus was born in the spring. The church just celebrated on D25 to conform to Pagans who always celebrated D25

[markpasky08]

I challenge you morons to READ about some of these mythological characters! Just pick any (non-occult website) and read about them. You will scratch your head in wonder of how the hell these myths were ever thought to be anything similar to any other one! You guys are more concerned with this guy NOT being an egyptogolist meanwhile none of ZG sources are either! Take his advice and check for yourself and check into ZG sources because they are all after the same AGENDA! Don't be so naive!

[copie692012]

In God we Trust...

[copie692012]

Wikipedia:

John Dickson : He is also co-founder and director of the Centre for Public Christianity, a media company that seeks to "promote the public understanding of the Christian faith"

[Terneyah]

i thought the father of horus was killed by seth and cut in pieces. isis searched his bodyparts and... became kind necrophilia and used osiris body parts to become pregnant with horus. and horus actually never died?

[grn4blu]

i love how this man says he's done the research and points out nothing himself, this is too good.

[markpasky08]

He's a historian and in fact all historians are claiming that this movie is rubbish so where's your "points"

[micap20078]

just because he says hes a historian doesnt mean he knows everything it even says in my encyclopedia that

the egyptian sun god had many different versions.

why didint they get an egyptologist to do this inteview? i`ll tell you because if you watch "egyptian book of the dead" documentery on the history channel you see that egyptologists believe that egypt influenced todays religion. do debunkers tell you this? nooo.

[markpasky08]

@micap20078

The egyptian sun God was Ra and not Horus as Shitegeist says. And so shitegeist is just trying to make something out of nothing. Trying to make you BELIEVE in something new...that Jesus is a copy cat. Come on really??? And no one throughout history has figured this out until now? Give me a break it is grade A bullshit based a few whack job books written by non-credible sources.

[NananomNsamanfo]

this man knows nothing about the egyptian/kemetic text!

[zambia96]

shut yo gay ass up

[Youlube32]

And what do you know? You don't need to be an egyptologist to figure out that this movie was a load of horse****, and it even dumbfounds me that people take it seriously as if it really represents facts!!! The movie did not even use historians or egyptologists as a reference guide! Horus was not a sun god. He was god of the sky, yes one of his eyes was a sun and the other a moon but that is a far shot from even calling him a sun god. Forbes is not even a believer but he is right. Do research.

[NananomNsamanfo]

ive read and studied many egyptian text and study or afrikan religions. I think zeitgeist was to get people to start thinking and researching which I do and come to KNOW that JESUS is FICTIONAL. i dont care about zeitgeist. What i did say is this man knows nothing about ancient egypt...any one who does knows that judaism christianity and islam aint nothing but perverted fragments plagiarized and concocted text that came from ancient egypt.

[jbooks888]

ok wolfy, I see you have a lot of anger bottled up in there - blame God if you want - all I'm saying is that God is wonderful to me! If that annoys you, well, scuse me if I snicker!

[JustinHill47]

"Wildly wrong"

It's difficult to get more wrong than that!

[grandconjunct]

911 conspiracies ? LOL ,to Atheists everythining is a conspiracy except for the Universe.

[Wolfy877]

The New Testament of The Bible was 'assembled' Hundreds of years _after_ Jesus was supposed to have lived, in order to quell the conflicting peoples in Rome during the time of Emperor Constantine... it has been translated, edited, and translated many times since..

It is NOT a work of historical fact, rather, a collection of stories and 'word of mouth' passings-on..

Much like The Old Testament..

go wiki ' The Bible '.. open your closed minds people..

[sexyarii]

1) The Bible was not assembled with regard to Constantine.

2) All the texts of the Bible were accepted as authoritative by orthodoxy long before Constantine;

3) We have the NT in the original languages - the claim that it is "translated many times" makes it clear you don't know such a basic fact.

4) It is a work of historical fact - and not word of mouth. Are you even aware that most of the books in the NT are letters?

Do read a book or something before you open your mouth.

[KabaneTheChristian]

Absolutely false. The canon of the New Testament developed over a period of time, but by the early second century we already see the four gospels, Acts, Paul's letters, 1 Peter and 1 John being used. Dispute remained about James, Jude, 2-3 John, 2 Peter, and Revelation until the mid third century, with the vast majority of Christians accepting it, only minor opposition. The canon was formally defined at the Council of Carthage and possibly the Council of Rome.

[glorban]

@Wolfy877 So I guess all the manuscripts predating the council of Nicene were put on earth by Satan to test skeptics' faith?

[Wolfy877]

trick question.. there's no such thing as 'Satan'.. or 'God' for that matter..

jeez, you people are so gullible.. have you not looked around yourselves AT ALL while being alive, or have you blindly followed that which other brainwashed, religious fools have force fed you..?

religion was developed for a number of reasons, first, was control, the second was money, and the third was power..

Think i'm lying? do some research. and as i've said before: open your eyes, try thinking for yourself.

[jbooks888]

@Wolfy877 Anyone can say anything. Do you have ANY evidence for this drivel coming out of you?

[glorban]

yeesh. it was a sarcastic remark. Some Christians have a theory that God put dinosaur bones on earth in order to test believer's faith. This is obviously denial of the evidence. Clearly, I was using this same argument only slightly modified to your situation in order to prove a point. The one in denial of the evidence in this case is you. It is impossible for Emperor Constantine to have edited the Bible because our New Testament manuscripts predate Constantine altogether.

[jbooks888]

@Wolfy877 Oh right... you were there, you know what happened!

[Wolfy877]

No, I wasn't there, (and neither were YOU for that matter), however, I'M not a blinded fool, I see the world as it stands before me, and I see no evidence of a caring god, (or any other deity)

I see none in the earthquakes, hurricanes, and tornadoes which kill thousands of people every year.

I see no evidence in the famines and diseases which ravage us.

I see no evidence in the face of my 22 year old friend as she goes thru 3 years of chemo for breast cancer.

All "Part of God's plan"?

Bullshit.

[jbooks888]

Well, I'm sorry for your friends battle with cancer - but if you say that all there is is what you can see with your physical eyes, I think you are cutting out a lot of reality. People who know God intimately are aware of his caring side. Yes He sends judgments on people (I'm not saying all bad thing are that) but I really believe that if you want to know God, He will make himself known to you. This is what I've found, and not through churches or other people.

[Randomicity912]

Who is willing to bet that the dum-dums keep believing this Christ-Myth crap? It seems as if they are intent to murder the truth, by stabbing it repeatedly with their swords. The truth tried to get away, but the stupid are many and their arrows darken the sky.

[Wolfy877]

Well said sir.. :)

[micap20078]

@Randomicity912 zeitgeist is right i have found it to be true your all fools..

[thunderbolt94]

It's one thing to believe that Jesus wasn't the Son of God, but to say he never existed is downright beyond stupid, idiotic, and pathetic.

[Ricky2112]

I guess since there isn't any ancient evidence to support the story of Jesus, other than the bible - which is not a historical text, we certainly shouldn't be taking his story seriously. I guess since we live in a time where "magic" itself is a myth, I'm going with the "jesus never lived" theory. Nice upload, I loved the "don't believe what you see on you tube bit", that was wonderful. As if somehow if some thing is recorded from TV, or a photo from a book is placed on YouTube, uh oh, not real!

[ronhudsonjr]

false. let me demonstrate something about the historicity of Jesus. Tiberius was the roman emperor from the time of jesus. How many sources do we have that even MENTION him? 10. How many sources do we have that mention jesus? FORTY! So we have the most powerful man in the world at that time, mentioned 10 times, and a jewish carpenter mentioned 40. Seems to me he was not only real, but very significant. Pagan parallels are rejected by majority of legit scholars. Wake up!

[jorsak]

Exactly how do you determine that the Bible is not a historical text?

[adriennesmiles]

are you kidding Ricky? There are many more historical texts proving Jesus lived. See Josephus, a 1st Century Jewish Historian, who wrote about a man called Jesus who was referred to as the Christ. Clearly, Josephus, did not believe he is the Son of God, still believed there was a man, Jesus of Nazareth, who existed.

Josephus is not the only historical text.

Do your own research. Stop making claims without backup. You only make yourself look like a fool.

[Truelovereigns]

Straight and simple Jesus is Lord forever! Thanks 4 the upload God bless u

[leeroy956]

Thanks for uploading this Jesus bless u :)