Illegal wildlife trading in bangkok, thailand caught on film

[phillips78]

Thailand is known for many positive attributes, but, it is also known as a global hub for the sale and distribution of rare and endangered animals which often goes hand in hand with international crime, including narcotics and trade in armaments.

See also:

"Illegal wildlife trade is far more terrifying than just snakes on a plane"

The snakes found at Bangkok airport are part of a £6bn trade decimating ecosystems and endangering rare species

Guardian news Thursday 28 July 2011

[jase123111]

Hey where are the endangered animals in this video?! They are captive bred! That 'rare turtle' is a COMMON snapping turtle, farmed for its meat. Those parrots are native to Australia and are common captive bred birds. Before you go giving Thailand a bad name, actually do some research. The rodent things are sugar gliders, again captive bred in abundance. and the crocodiles (not good pets) are hybrids from crocodile farms, bred for meal and leather. NOT ENDANGERED. And i see no monkey......

[phillips78]

@jase123111 Both the alligator snapping turtle and the tiger salmander are threatened species. Not to mention the Mahogany Glider. Large numbers of species seen here are taken direct from the wild. Please also see the Thailand Wild Animals Preservation and Protection Act (1992). I seriously cannot believe that you are actually promoting the sale of wild animals in Thailand?1 The reason you saw no monkey was because I was attacked for having a camera, why hide something that isn't illegal?

[adamkwas]

@phillips78 None of the two mentioned species are endangered.

[phillips78]

@adamkwas The alligator snapping turtle (vulnerable) is a threatened species. The Mahogany glider (Petaurus gracilis) is endangered. Thailand is a major source and route for illegally traded wildlife. It is a signatory to CITES.

[adamkwas]

@phillips78 Soz mayne

[80sHairBand4Life]

Crocodiles are extremely common in Thailand. Except Siamese crocs. What was in the market was a hybrid salt/siamese croc. Not endangered. Elephants are finding alternative work trekking since the fall of the logging industry. There are wild elephants but also a huge stock of domestic elephants whose owners must feed. Go police your own backyard first. /watch?v=vUakLh0MPJc

[phillips78]

@80sHairBand4Life 1) Thailand is where I am based and I have supported the underfunded Police team that deals with wildlife crime. 2) Asian Elephants are now more endangered than African ones. Almost all working elephants are abused at a young age, (khedda), it is first tied up alongside several experienced working elephants (kumies) and dragged to a training ground then it gets a week of abuse to break it. Siamese crocs can be identified by DNA analysis, not by sight. Why do you support crime?

[80sHairBand4Life]

@phillips78 Problem with you activists is you accuse everyone of being criminals who are not in TOTAL agreement with you when they don't even fulfill criminal elements according to law. And it's always all or nothing. No doubt wild Asian elephant populations are endangered due to habitat loss, etc. But you offer no solutions to the domestic elephant population where many mahouts devote all or half their lives to them. Elephants live a long time. Not all owners are abusers!

[phillips78]

@80sHairBand4Life Elephants are listed as Protected Animals under the Thai Conservation Act 1992. But, considering the present situation, they should now be listed as endangered. There are no controls over live poaching of juvenile wild elephants to use as "domestic" ones. Drugging with amphetamines is common. WSPA has stated that abuse is rife especially when "breaking in" an elephant. There are full solutions in the FAO doc "The elephant situation in Thailand and a plea for co-operation".

[80sHairBand4Life]

@phillips78 Just for the record, I am not pro-capturing of wild elephants. My interests are making sure that the domestic population and their mahouts continue to be able to survive given that there are already a large domestic elephant population. You can't just abandon them like a puppy in a cage at a pet store. Elephants are known for their longevity. Few like the mahouts are willing to devote all their lives to elephants.  You and I actually have jobs elsewhere.

[phillips78]

@80sHairBand4Life I've no problem with mahouts who look after their elephants without abuse but they are few are far between as shown by WSPA investigations and I agree with yo that, they shouldn't be abandoned but continuing the use of elephants for work needs phasing out so that no more Elephants are taken from the wild and no more elephants go through the "breaking in" stage which I have seen firsthand in Thailand. I think we essentially agree on most things.I think we are going off topic:)

[80sHairBand4Life]

@phillips78 I think in general we both mean well. I think the common approach of showing animals in bad conditions which occurs in every country as shown in my first post /watch?v=vUakLh0MPJc

promotes hatred rather than solutions in terms of help from the public. Perhaps my time in Thailand prefers the "smile approach." Yes bad things go on, and telling people not to buy endangered animals can also be conveyed by showing what good native people are doing to help and how others can help.

[80sHairBand4Life]

@phillips78 ..and you are correct to say that DNA testing are needed to corroborate true Siamese croc strain. But as you know, they are so rare - almost limited to Laos and Cambodia that you probably can deduce that the one at Jatujak is not a Siamese croc. My point is hybrids are not endangered and actually farmed. The picture you activists paint is that even trekking and having elephants participate in anything with human is abuse. That is not always true - just your preference for "wild."

[phillips78]

@80sHairBand4Life Please see the Thailand Wild Animals Preservation and Protection Act (1992). I seriously cannot believe that you are actually promoting the sale of wild animals in Thailand when you fully understand that the reason why Siamese crocs became endangered was because of poaching and due to wildlife trading. Many of the animals that end up in Bangkok markets are poached from Thailand, Burma, Camdodia and Vietnam, not to mention the species that are smuggled in from abroad.

[80sHairBand4Life]

@phillips78 Did I ever say that I promoted the sales of endangered species? As others have noticed, not all the animals you displayed were endangered. Confined in small uncomfortable cages - definitely. Believe me I am aware of preservation and am proud of the Seub Nakhasathien Foundation. What I am not into is painting an overall picture that all is criminal and evil about a country when no solution for the poor people is offered. What have you offered the mahouts?

[phillips78]

@80sHairBand4Life I can't help thinking you are being over defensive, where did I state that ALL the species in the film were endangered or that Thailand was in some way criminal or evil? I observed several species on the IUCN red data list in the market when the film was made and several in other regions of Thailand, it is well known that much of the illegally traded wildlife going to China goes through Thailand.  If you want a list of red data list species in the film, let me know.

[80sHairBand4Life]

@phillips78 Hmm I thought it was you who said I promoted the sales of endangered species. If I'm overly defensive then you're overly accusatory. In the end, it's the balance between caring for the poor and the protection of the animals. When the Thai government helped the hill tribes, they didn't just take away the opium and leave them hanging. They actually provided them with alternative means to make a living through crafts, etc. Protest must come with solutions. I'm done with this topic

[phillips78]

@80sHairBand4Life Firstly you brought up Elephants, I didn't, There are many solutions available that don't harm good mahouts and rescue centres available that don't abuse elephants, solutions are not difficult. Wildlife trading is rife in Thailand. I've talked to frustrated Thai wildlife police who can't act due to corruption above them. p.s. Many hill tribe families were executed by the Thai Army during Thaksin's time in power to "persuade" people that they didn't want to grow opium anymore.

[80sHairBand4Life]

@phillips78 Then post the solutions. I would be all for it if you made as many videos pro solutions as you do for depictions advocating protests with no solutions. Let us see on videos good mahouts being helped out by good solutions. As far as hilltribe, I was referring to when His Majesty the King helped them.

[phillips78]

@80sHairBand4Life Domesticated Elephants and Wildlife trading in markets are somewhat separate issues. On elephants there are many foundations including the Queen's Elephant Reintroduction Foundation and many others. The FAO has many documents on solutions e.g. The role of NGOs in the management of domesticated elephants in Thailand - by Parntep Ratanakorn. On wildlife trading in markets the law needs enforcing properly and senior police corruption tackled. My video was for raising awareness.

[80sHairBand4Life]

@phillips78 Some of the better presentation of how the hilltribes were helped by His Majesty the King:

/watch?v=rRyDWSk4TUw

[phillips78]

@80sHairBand4Life Although the HRH King Bhumibol Adulyadej has indeed done some very good things, not everything attributed to him was actually as a result of his actions. Why are the lese-majesty laws still in place when the King himself has said they are not needed?

[phillips78]

@GHOSTTOYS "there is a demand for those rare animal so there will always be a market"- look at the vast majority of wild species that can be legally caught or owned and you see a population that is getting smaller every year e.g. most species of fish. The environment does not fit into our current economic system, the sooner economists and businesses realise that, the better. I have seen illegally exported tigers in dubai, they are not treated well.

[GHOSTTOYS]

ooookkkkk .. so if i get it those animal and trade of animal are all illegal because some are in danger and some are realy dangerous but the point is in there respective country people livving there dont mind them but sales them .. to us .. they probably will not sales cat or dog to us because they are not rare but if they legalise those animal they will becaume more popular might even reproduce more loll like cat ,dog , some bird ,some fish .but the point is why dont just legalise them ..

[phillips78]

@GHOSTTOYS If the trade was legalised then the entire wild population would be gone from national parks within a few years. Wild animals belong in the wild. Cats and dogs are domesticated. There are very good reasons why wildlife trading is illegal.

[GHOSTTOYS]

@phillips78 ok but no offence but because its ilegale they are going instinc ... and when some zoo and other animal care have a rare animal where do you think they got it ! me personaly i think they should legalise those species but make sure of the security of the animal like a day care .. then after that who will try to smug some animal when you can get it in your country .. because dont think they will catch every one ..most of the dead ocure durring the smugling ..or the catch

[phillips78]

@GHOSTTOYS No, they are going extinct because people break the law. The vast majority of zoo's cannot and do not collect from the wild, they breed almost exclusively from zoo populations. Legalising wild animal trading will increase the loss of species.

[GHOSTTOYS]

@phillips78 interesting .... now i understand better .. seriously , but why the heck does no one just put little gps chip on them or in them .. like they do with dog and cat ... or when they track a bear when they use antena and head phone in national geogra.... just like they tag those migratory bird ... try to smugle them now they are tag and followed by satelite .. that would be sick and follow them like on google map

[phillips78]

@GHOSTTOYS Using GPS tracking was used hidden in rhino horns and it successfully captured illegal traders but its hard to do. The laws protecting wildlife are very weak and need to be tougher with enforcement. ultimately until human attitudes change and we start to appreciate nature without having to "own" it, eat it or hang it on the wall the better off wildlife will be. Wildlife has greater value in the wild and it provides ecosystem services worth $33 trillion per year (if left in the wild).

[tommyaceshow]

Oooo Scary, birds and reptiles Zzz Zzz Your an idiot - there is nothing endangered show in this video !

[phillips78]

@tommyaceshow 1) Its "you're" or "you are" not "your". 2) Refer to the IUCN red data list of threatened species and you can confirm that the species in the video include the chinese soft shelled tortoise, mahogany glider, siamese cocodile, fea's muntjac skulls, and several others. 3) Thailand is a signatory to CITES and has laws to limit wildlife trading.

[Kelter82]

What is at 1:53?

[tracyvanity]

Thank you for raising awareness on this issue. There needs to be more public awareness on stopping this brutality.

[TheNorse51]

leave thailand and its practices alone you nosy colionalists

[phillips78]

@TheNorse51 Thailand is a signatory to CITES and has laws to limit wildlife trading, just like your country, Why do you want people to break Thai law by purchasing endangered species?

[checkyoursources]

@TheNorse51 Please see the Thailand Wild Animals Preservation and Protection Act (1992)

[BBproductionz09]

this is an amazing video, thankyou very much for putting your time and effort into making this :)

[maeevee]

yo fuck you adbulbade this is fucking wrong and before you now it theres gona be no more fucking tigers so shut your rick ass mouth before somewon does it for you

[maeevee]

yo fuck you adbulbade this is fucking wrong and before you now it theres gona be no more fucking tigers so shut your rick ass mouth before somewon does it for you

[00Hellfire]

if u love animal, leave them in the wild

[hunterwood214]

Sugar glider are not illegal!!! Anyone can buy and breed them!! I know a breeder and shes been in the buissness for 5 years.

[phillips78]

Actually there are many US states where owning a sugar glider is illegal. In addition, importing them is illegal, the owner you know may well be sourcing her gliders from illegal sources direct from the wild, best to check. It is illegal to sell them in their native home, Australia/PNG and they are often sold as sugar gliders when they are in fact Leadbeater's Possum or the Mahogany Glider, both highly endangered.

[abdulbade]

so fucking what, whats wrong with selling and buying animals? god this pisses me off, i like exotic pets, i care for them and give them a decent life, we have the right to own animals. i own a bengal tiger, a cheetah, and striped hayenas. and for thoes who say they will go extinct, trust me they wont, their are many tiger and cheetah owners who breed them, they wont disappear.

[phillips78]

If you are part of a captive breeding programme that releases these species back to the wild then I have no problem with that. The issue is people that don't know how to look after these animals or take them illegally from the wild to sell them/skin them/use them for "medicine". Are you part of the international stud book programme or do you just breed your animals with whatever stock is available?

[funkmaester]

@abdulbade U MY FRIEND....ARE EXTREMELY DUMB....

[tracyvanity]

@abdulbade Because wild animals do not belong in cages for human entertainment, they belong in the wild. They are not toys for your amusement. If you really cared about animals you would want to preserve their natural habitat and liberate them, not trap them in a cage.

[Raksaht]

Elephant trekking and the tiger temple are two of the prime examples of animal abuse in Thailand. Having lived in Thailand for 20 years, I've, unfortunately, seen a ton of animal abuse. Gibbons are still paraded around touristy areas... often right in front of cops! Please don't support any animal shows or elephant trekking. You're not helping the animals, you're adding to their suffering.

[phillips78]

Tiger temple has dubious parts, and they haven't released any tigers back to the wild and until they do, I tend to agree with you. Elephant trekking can help with conservation if done well but if done cruelly or with profits in mind can be a hindrance and damaging to elephants. I dislike it when animals are paraded around in tourist areas, they are mistreated and come from the wild in most cases. Please never get your photo taken with animals paraded in tourist areas,It encourages wildlife crime

[Raksaht]

I agree with everything you're saying Phillips78. Things could be tweaked a bit and made a lot better. The tiger temple could actually do some good if profit wasn't their driving force and elephant trekking could work if they didn't beat them into submission. If most tourists knew what they were supporting, both of these places would be out of business.

[dragonmasterangelo11]

was that sugar glider if it is they fu**en dumb asses

[jubeltrubelvideo]

Many of the species shown in the clip are legally sold: Such as the alligator snapping turtle, the tiger salamander etc...but Chatuchak is certainly a center of illefal wildlife trade !

[phillips78]

Both the alligator snapping turtle and the tiger salmander are threatened species.

[Ancupola]

Horrible...........shame shame and shame.

[sug1593]

omy gosh is that a sugar glider at :33??!!!!

hes just in a plastic box!!! i hope that poor guy....or all of the animals in this vid get put back wheere they need to be......

[missukkalisy]

Thank God there are people like you to help these poor animals...Thank you.

[AquaTeal334]

yah

[sharkblubber]

have a look at the excellent work wildlife alliance are doing to stop the illegal trade. Have a look at their videos under "wildlife alliance"

[phillips78]

For more info also check out wildlife alliances excellent videos on you tube. They are doing some great work protecting wildlife and their habitats across South East Asia.