IF gay christians and their supporters are right that the Bible has been misinterpeted and mistranslated, then it MAY be gay christian opponents in need of God's forgiveness for the very possible violation of both Matt. 7:1-2 in the NT and the OT nineth commandment.
continued..."Oregon group's (OHSU & OSU) work has shown, however, that gay rams have different brain structures from heterosexual ones, news that should cheer those who see homosexuality and heterosexuality as mere biological variation" In other words, there have been no genes..yet, but horomone chemicals distributions of testosterone and estrogen during fetal development does have a determining factor in the person being hetero, homo, or bi...
In your search engine type in "GAY SHEEP" and read. Here's one for you. This newspiece from Time magazine dated January 26 2007 "Zoologists have known for many years that homosexuality isn't uncommon among animals. (My own cat has raised suspicions ever since he tried to mount a cowering male dachshund.) But I was surprised to learn recently that male sheep exhibit homosexuality at least as often as humans: roughly 8% of rams turn out to have sex exclusively with other rams."
Some churches in America are brainwashing that Homosexuals are incapable of love and only lust. It seems to me that no matter what the facts of science and biblical history really say about homosexuality about Romans 1they'd still think that homosexuals are incapable of love and only lust They might well be puzzled about a homosexual's reaction to the death of a partner They might wonder if the surviving partner experiences actual grief or merely an inconvenience while searching for a substitute
I have decided not to pursue this. I have made my points.
Paul WAS talking to Christians that had decided to go back to their pagan lives. Thus giving themselves over to sin.
I am not ignoring Biblical History nor the history of Christianity. All your theories are new theories and have not been backed up by 2000 years of Christian history.
BTW in our conversations you will see that I have been called a homophobe, alikened to the Phelps clan and a few other choice things because I dared to challenge justike's position. I tried to do it decently and be fair although I did say that being a gay Christian is oxymoronic in my opinion.
I will not continue my discussion because jusitke cannot discuss without being abusive. This subject does interest me and I am hoping someone can change my mind. No luck yet but I am willing to listen
Actually I actually showed you what you can't see for yourself on what other's can see. Repeated gestures of Gay Christians as "oxymorons" really left little room for you to even consider yourself "Christ-like". I don't think you're being fair in bluntly ignoring biblical history and scientific findings on innate human sexuality (homosexuality, heterosexuality, and bisexuality). Not wanting to take those into consideration and repeated name calling of "oxymoron" isn't fair and plain homophobic.
Not are you naive to your self-righteousness, you're lying. If you go back to read our discussions, you've said the word "oxymoron" repeatedly and not just one time. And you can cry oxymorons all you want, but science and biblical history goes well with the Bible, so don't ignore it and just call my faith an "oxymoron"
I used the term a total of 3 times. Once in my opening post. Once again to make a point (this was in our 1st 4 posts back and forth, and then to answer your comment. I would not in any rational way say I was using it as an repeatedly. I said that I viewed a practicing homosexual Christian an "oxymoron" That statement not you yourself. So I was wrong. I was not lying.
Are you naturally like this? Again do you read the venom you write?
Are you serious?! I seriously can't believe you're lying! Hold on for a while, because I'm going to go back and copy and paste your comments about Gay Christians as "oxymorons"...if not today, I'll do it tomorrow...standby.
I cant believe I am having to defend myself but here is what I said. I will save you the time
1) rencal45 (1 week ago)
I don't believe there is such a thing as a practicing homosexual Christian. It is an oxymoron. Just like Christian thief, Christian liar etc.
I led up to Romans with that post and if that wasn't clear I am sorry.
You know I cant answer your question re: Mosaic law in the letter count here. I did offer to do this privately but you declined. Basically the law was fulfilled
No I said the term "gay christian," was an oxymoron imo. I didn't say God hated you as a gay Christian the Bible clearly states that God hates the sin of the act of homosexuality. I have also stated that it is the same as any sin. I didn't write it I am just stating what the Bible says. I am sorry if that offends you. Still offended and this WILL be my last comment
Wow you are sarcastic. Strawman arguments are my favorite.
Yes Jesus is Savior on that we will agree. Whether "gay" Christians (oxymoron) are going is up to God BUT from what I have read in my Bible (and yes I have several translations as well as a copy of the Geneva Bible which presumably your forefathers would have had with them)and with 2000 years of Christian history behind us (some good, some not so good) I will stand by what I have said.
and here is the last comment. So I can see 3 posts mentioning oxymoron and why I think the term is oxymoronic.I want to seriously apologize to others for this being carried over here.
Jusitke07 has too much time on his hands
rencal45 (4 days ago)
Again i will say God does not hate homosexuals nor do I. He loves them and His Son dided for them as He did for any other sinner. The question is. Do we continue in sin that grace may abound?
I do believe the term "gay Christian" is oxymoronic. That comes from my belief system. I am sorry if that offends. That is the truth as I know it.
Maybe there is a homosexual Christian that can show me differently but it won't be Jusitke07 as the fruit is not evident even in his posts.
They reek of anger. That is not Christ's way. I will not have any further contact with him. I just wanted to show that I am not a liar. There were three occasions where I used the term oxymoron.
"ONCE" huh? Thank you for your honesty in pointing out that you said more than just "ONCE" and pointing out your decietfulness. Your belief that my faith as an "oxymoron" is comparable to me as if I were to believe that Straight Christians is an "oxymoron" There's no difference. I'd like to do an anyalsis to see where you stand: Do you personally believe that homosexuality is influenced or innate?
I said that I did not lie I was mistaken. I didnt take the time to go back and look at it until confronted by you.
Anyway your fruits have shown who you are and I will leave it at that. Even if you were a hetero I would say that your fruits would not be of those who I would want to hang around with offline.
You are angry and bitter. I have made it clear what I believe. I Will not be baited into anymore of your childish discussion
I do not believe your faith is an oxymoron and have never said that. I do not believe you can be a Christian and a person that practices homosexual acts. That would be an oxymoron
Your reference to straight sex is asinine according to historical Christianity so I wont even dignify that with an answer.
Don't worry folks rencal45 and I have been discussing this and this guy just goes off in a tandem ignoring biblical history and scientific findings behind innate homosexuality. I don't think he realizes that within that 2000 years of church history, mortal beings with their religious interpretation got it wrong historically as is the case of Galileo, Capernicus, and many other who accused of heretics because of science, still to this day with lots of misunderstandings of homosexuality.
Paul wasn't just talking to any old Christians. He was talking to the ones who had fallen back into their old religions! I can no longer pretend that I don't know what is being said when I read Romans 1 and I'm sorry that you can.
When you read this verse, in context (i.e. how it was written/and what it was written about - how NOWALLSMINISTRY explains it) how can you simply say that?
i'm curious to know what do you believe instead? and why?
And THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR POSTING THIS VIDEO!!! Your message of truth will reach out to those Gay teens thinking committing suicide because they're told by their parents or other that "GOD HATES THEM", and/or Gay Christians that are or were kicked out of their churches...messages of hate are about the same messages coming from Moslem extremists and the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka Kansas managed by the Phelps family. Satan tell Gay Christians "GOD HATES YOU!!" and that's a lie.
What boggles my mind about Lucario1856, is that he believes homosexuality is innate just as heterosexuality and bisexuality is. And yet is quote from other video is this, and I quote: "homosexuality is not a sin, but practicing homosexuality is a sin"...that's like me saying "heterosexuality is not a sin, but practicing heterosexuality is a sin."...totally confused...
I'm sorry. I'm glad that you are educated as much as you are and have been taught as much as you have, and it's interesting. But I think the bible was written to be understood without having to dig and scrape for tons of research in order to understand what is trying to be said. But thank you for sending me your take on those verses. :)
Do you take any interest in the creation vs. evolution debate as well? :)
I agree this is over anaylsis. Besides the Bible, God gave us the Holy Spirit to live within us. And that same Spirt that lives within me has clearly shown me how wrong homosexual behavior is. Besides, marriage is defined in the Bible multiple times as between a man and a woman. If homosexual behavior is accepted by God, why did he leave it out of his defintion? And how come every time it is brought up in the Bible it is something negative? It is wrong, any Christian should know that.
You're particualr biblical scriptures regarding a relationship between a man and a woman pertains only the straight Christians, as there are scriptures peratining to Gay Christians (Matt. 19:12, 1 & 2 Samuel), or scripture pertaining only to women (1 Cor 11 & 1 & 2 Timothy), or scriptures pertaining to singles, scriptures pertaining to kids, scriputres pertaining to men. Not all scriputres are adhered to by certain types of people So scriptures about straight people are not followed by Gay folks
Oh really? Please point out to me where it says "this verse applies to straight Christians only" or anything of that nature. I really can't argue with you because if you are so misguided as to believe that Matt. 19:12 is about homosexuals then there is nothing I can say that will have any effect on you.
No, however a number of genetic disorders can cause a baby to be born without a sexual identity. Some don't have a gender at all because of a genetic issue involving the X and Y chromosomes. If God had put that in the Bible all the early Christians would have been scratching their heads thinking "Genetic? What is that?" God talks about marriage not being required so why do you think that just because a man is not attracted to women it means he is attracted to men? Thats pretty narrowminded.
If I recall correctly, I thought you thought "Eunuchs that are born that way" are just Eunuchs in general. Now you're back with a different idea. Interesting. Anyway, God has blessed us with modern technology to help us understand more about humanity in general. Just because "genetics" is not found in the Bible, that doesn't mean God never knew about it. Did you know "train" doesn't exist in the Bible? Anyway, show me where are babies born without sexuality.
IF gay christians and their supporters are right that the Bible has been misinterpeted and mistranslated, then it MAY be gay christian opponents in need of God's forgiveness for the very possible violation of both Matt. 7:1-2 in the NT and the OT nineth commandment.
clay56 1 year ago
become a nun sister sin no more
3Michael82 1 year ago
This is fantastic. I subscribed. :)
I hope you watch some of my videos..for I am a Liberal-minded, progressive Christian as well.
Jesus did not teach bigotry. You are one of the few that understand that.
God Bless you!
- Justin..
TheLiberalChristian 3 years ago
continued..."Oregon group's (OHSU & OSU) work has shown, however, that gay rams have different brain structures from heterosexual ones, news that should cheer those who see homosexuality and heterosexuality as mere biological variation" In other words, there have been no genes..yet, but horomone chemicals distributions of testosterone and estrogen during fetal development does have a determining factor in the person being hetero, homo, or bi...
jusitke07 3 years ago
In your search engine type in "GAY SHEEP" and read. Here's one for you. This newspiece from Time magazine dated January 26 2007 "Zoologists have known for many years that homosexuality isn't uncommon among animals. (My own cat has raised suspicions ever since he tried to mount a cowering male dachshund.) But I was surprised to learn recently that male sheep exhibit homosexuality at least as often as humans: roughly 8% of rams turn out to have sex exclusively with other rams."
jusitke07 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Some churches in America are brainwashing that Homosexuals are incapable of love and only lust. It seems to me that no matter what the facts of science and biblical history really say about homosexuality about Romans 1they'd still think that homosexuals are incapable of love and only lust They might well be puzzled about a homosexual's reaction to the death of a partner They might wonder if the surviving partner experiences actual grief or merely an inconvenience while searching for a substitute
jusitke07 3 years ago
continued...BTW, you can see the arguments of jusitke07 and rencal45 at this site watch?v=lb4AGWqsQjU
jusitke07 3 years ago
I have decided not to pursue this. I have made my points.
Paul WAS talking to Christians that had decided to go back to their pagan lives. Thus giving themselves over to sin.
I am not ignoring Biblical History nor the history of Christianity. All your theories are new theories and have not been backed up by 2000 years of Christian history.
rencal45 3 years ago
BTW in our conversations you will see that I have been called a homophobe, alikened to the Phelps clan and a few other choice things because I dared to challenge justike's position. I tried to do it decently and be fair although I did say that being a gay Christian is oxymoronic in my opinion.
I will not continue my discussion because jusitke cannot discuss without being abusive. This subject does interest me and I am hoping someone can change my mind. No luck yet but I am willing to listen
rencal45 3 years ago
Actually I actually showed you what you can't see for yourself on what other's can see. Repeated gestures of Gay Christians as "oxymorons" really left little room for you to even consider yourself "Christ-like". I don't think you're being fair in bluntly ignoring biblical history and scientific findings on innate human sexuality (homosexuality, heterosexuality, and bisexuality). Not wanting to take those into consideration and repeated name calling of "oxymoron" isn't fair and plain homophobic.
jusitke07 3 years ago
I see for myself fine thank you. As for the term oxymoron I used it once not repeatedly. When it offended you I stopped.
As far as me being "Christ like" That is like the pot calling the kettle black. Do you read what you write.
I haeve read the studies on both sides of the "innate human sexuality camp" and frankly, the jury is out.
You can cry homophobe all you want, God's Word is true
rencal45 3 years ago
Not are you naive to your self-righteousness, you're lying. If you go back to read our discussions, you've said the word "oxymoron" repeatedly and not just one time. And you can cry oxymorons all you want, but science and biblical history goes well with the Bible, so don't ignore it and just call my faith an "oxymoron"
jusitke07 3 years ago
I used the term a total of 3 times. Once in my opening post. Once again to make a point (this was in our 1st 4 posts back and forth, and then to answer your comment. I would not in any rational way say I was using it as an repeatedly. I said that I viewed a practicing homosexual Christian an "oxymoron" That statement not you yourself. So I was wrong. I was not lying.
Are you naturally like this? Again do you read the venom you write?
rencal45 3 years ago
Are you serious?! I seriously can't believe you're lying! Hold on for a while, because I'm going to go back and copy and paste your comments about Gay Christians as "oxymorons"...if not today, I'll do it tomorrow...standby.
jusitke07 3 years ago
I cant believe I am having to defend myself but here is what I said. I will save you the time
1) rencal45 (1 week ago)
I don't believe there is such a thing as a practicing homosexual Christian. It is an oxymoron. Just like Christian thief, Christian liar etc.
I led up to Romans with that post and if that wasn't clear I am sorry.
You know I cant answer your question re: Mosaic law in the letter count here. I did offer to do this privately but you declined. Basically the law was fulfilled
rencal45 3 years ago
2) rencal45 (1 week ago) \
No I said the term "gay christian," was an oxymoron imo. I didn't say God hated you as a gay Christian the Bible clearly states that God hates the sin of the act of homosexuality. I have also stated that it is the same as any sin. I didn't write it I am just stating what the Bible says. I am sorry if that offends you. Still offended and this WILL be my last comment
rencal45 3 years ago
3) rencal45 (1 week ago)
Wow you are sarcastic. Strawman arguments are my favorite.
Yes Jesus is Savior on that we will agree. Whether "gay" Christians (oxymoron) are going is up to God BUT from what I have read in my Bible (and yes I have several translations as well as a copy of the Geneva Bible which presumably your forefathers would have had with them)and with 2000 years of Christian history behind us (some good, some not so good) I will stand by what I have said.
rencal45 3 years ago
and here is the last comment. So I can see 3 posts mentioning oxymoron and why I think the term is oxymoronic.I want to seriously apologize to others for this being carried over here.
Jusitke07 has too much time on his hands
rencal45 (4 days ago)
Again i will say God does not hate homosexuals nor do I. He loves them and His Son dided for them as He did for any other sinner. The question is. Do we continue in sin that grace may abound?
rencal45 3 years ago
I do believe the term "gay Christian" is oxymoronic. That comes from my belief system. I am sorry if that offends. That is the truth as I know it.
Maybe there is a homosexual Christian that can show me differently but it won't be Jusitke07 as the fruit is not evident even in his posts.
They reek of anger. That is not Christ's way. I will not have any further contact with him. I just wanted to show that I am not a liar. There were three occasions where I used the term oxymoron.
rencal45 3 years ago
"ONCE" huh? Thank you for your honesty in pointing out that you said more than just "ONCE" and pointing out your decietfulness. Your belief that my faith as an "oxymoron" is comparable to me as if I were to believe that Straight Christians is an "oxymoron" There's no difference. I'd like to do an anyalsis to see where you stand: Do you personally believe that homosexuality is influenced or innate?
jusitke07 3 years ago
I said that I did not lie I was mistaken. I didnt take the time to go back and look at it until confronted by you.
Anyway your fruits have shown who you are and I will leave it at that. Even if you were a hetero I would say that your fruits would not be of those who I would want to hang around with offline.
You are angry and bitter. I have made it clear what I believe. I Will not be baited into anymore of your childish discussion
rencal45 3 years ago
I do not believe your faith is an oxymoron and have never said that. I do not believe you can be a Christian and a person that practices homosexual acts. That would be an oxymoron
Your reference to straight sex is asinine according to historical Christianity so I wont even dignify that with an answer.
What I personally believe does not matter.
rencal45 3 years ago
No I was honest when I actually took time out of my busy day to post what I said. (which you didnt)
rencal45 3 years ago
Here are some questions for you:
1. How would you feel if I declared to you that being a Straight Christian is an "oxymoron"?
2. In regards to sexuality, do you side on the idea of choice or innate?
jusitke07 3 years ago
I will say at least No Walls Ministry is a decent person and one who writes and posts intelligently.
And I know my last post wasnt written properly. I am in the middle of a lot of things and trying to multi task
rencal45 3 years ago
Here are some questions for you:
1. How would you feel if I declared to you that being a Straight Christian is an "oxymoron"?
2. In regards to sexuality, do you side on the idea of choice or innate?
jusitke07 3 years ago
You're missing the sin. The sin was that it was sex to a different god.
NoWallsMinistry 3 years ago
Wow that is quite a distortion of scripture ad of 2000 years of church history. We will have to just disagree.
rencal45 3 years ago
Don't worry folks rencal45 and I have been discussing this and this guy just goes off in a tandem ignoring biblical history and scientific findings behind innate homosexuality. I don't think he realizes that within that 2000 years of church history, mortal beings with their religious interpretation got it wrong historically as is the case of Galileo, Capernicus, and many other who accused of heretics because of science, still to this day with lots of misunderstandings of homosexuality.
jusitke07 3 years ago
Paul wasn't just talking to any old Christians. He was talking to the ones who had fallen back into their old religions! I can no longer pretend that I don't know what is being said when I read Romans 1 and I'm sorry that you can.
NoWallsMinistry 3 years ago
And many scholars do not believe this and I happen to be one of them.
rencal45 3 years ago
When you read this verse, in context (i.e. how it was written/and what it was written about - how NOWALLSMINISTRY explains it) how can you simply say that?
i'm curious to know what do you believe instead? and why?
werdnanotroh 3 years ago
there no such thing as a Gay Christian people. sorry!
ervn1982 3 years ago
yeah you cant pursuit (lust) other people if your a christian. its wrong. gay or straight. lets see her argue this sin.
jamestangent69 3 years ago
you should justify what you're saying, because you're answer looks weak against NOWALLMINISTIES response.
werdnanotroh 3 years ago
And THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR POSTING THIS VIDEO!!! Your message of truth will reach out to those Gay teens thinking committing suicide because they're told by their parents or other that "GOD HATES THEM", and/or Gay Christians that are or were kicked out of their churches...messages of hate are about the same messages coming from Moslem extremists and the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka Kansas managed by the Phelps family. Satan tell Gay Christians "GOD HATES YOU!!" and that's a lie.
jusitke07 3 years ago
What boggles my mind about Lucario1856, is that he believes homosexuality is innate just as heterosexuality and bisexuality is. And yet is quote from other video is this, and I quote: "homosexuality is not a sin, but practicing homosexuality is a sin"...that's like me saying "heterosexuality is not a sin, but practicing heterosexuality is a sin."...totally confused...
jusitke07 3 years ago
Wait... who says that?
NoWallsMinistry 3 years ago
I'm sorry. I'm glad that you are educated as much as you are and have been taught as much as you have, and it's interesting. But I think the bible was written to be understood without having to dig and scrape for tons of research in order to understand what is trying to be said. But thank you for sending me your take on those verses. :)
Do you take any interest in the creation vs. evolution debate as well? :)
LangyLucca 3 years ago
I agree this is over anaylsis. Besides the Bible, God gave us the Holy Spirit to live within us. And that same Spirt that lives within me has clearly shown me how wrong homosexual behavior is. Besides, marriage is defined in the Bible multiple times as between a man and a woman. If homosexual behavior is accepted by God, why did he leave it out of his defintion? And how come every time it is brought up in the Bible it is something negative? It is wrong, any Christian should know that.
Lucario1856 3 years ago
Thaaaaank you! God bless you!
LangyLucca 3 years ago
You're particualr biblical scriptures regarding a relationship between a man and a woman pertains only the straight Christians, as there are scriptures peratining to Gay Christians (Matt. 19:12, 1 & 2 Samuel), or scripture pertaining only to women (1 Cor 11 & 1 & 2 Timothy), or scriptures pertaining to singles, scriptures pertaining to kids, scriputres pertaining to men. Not all scriputres are adhered to by certain types of people So scriptures about straight people are not followed by Gay folks
jusitke07 3 years ago
Oh really? Please point out to me where it says "this verse applies to straight Christians only" or anything of that nature. I really can't argue with you because if you are so misguided as to believe that Matt. 19:12 is about homosexuals then there is nothing I can say that will have any effect on you.
Lucario1856 3 years ago
Tell something Lucario1856, are babies born castrated already?
jusitke07 3 years ago
No, however a number of genetic disorders can cause a baby to be born without a sexual identity. Some don't have a gender at all because of a genetic issue involving the X and Y chromosomes. If God had put that in the Bible all the early Christians would have been scratching their heads thinking "Genetic? What is that?" God talks about marriage not being required so why do you think that just because a man is not attracted to women it means he is attracted to men? Thats pretty narrowminded.
Lucario1856 3 years ago
If I recall correctly, I thought you thought "Eunuchs that are born that way" are just Eunuchs in general. Now you're back with a different idea. Interesting. Anyway, God has blessed us with modern technology to help us understand more about humanity in general. Just because "genetics" is not found in the Bible, that doesn't mean God never knew about it. Did you know "train" doesn't exist in the Bible? Anyway, show me where are babies born without sexuality.
jusitke07 3 years ago
Thank you for another wonderful video :)
porolita22 3 years ago
thanks so much for the videos. keep it up. its really helping my girlfriend and i out a lot!
PaintingALie 3 years ago