Awful, just as modern art is anti-art; this crap is anti-music. Yet observe at all the people here who are doing their best to pretend that its wonderful - group think.
Very interesting stuff but the music gets in the way in places even though it's quite nice - and I can't hear what he's saying. Please put the music and conversation on separate posts (if you can that is).
The music drowned him out a bit toward the end, but I had heard that part of the interview elsewhere. He is talking about having learned his technique for string quartet writing through Mozart.
Frankly, I liked his art more than his music. I was glad to see him stress the importance of older composers, though...something I think some need to remember today. Interesting that Stravinsky, Bartok, and Hindemith felt the same way about those composers but came to such different conclusions.
Serialism is not a progression nor a advancement, it is the emperors new clothing, a illusion of "intellectualism" that if you do not buy into you will be labeled a Ignoramus...
What a terrific interview! He was such a tremendous figure as a composer/artist, and now after listening to much of this interview, I'd have to say much the same thing as a person.
Ineluctably, there are enough musicological resources to reference (including Schoenberg's own writings) to best comprehend one of Western music's most controversial and inspired geniuses.
Do the work, or refrain from posting inconsequential, banal commentary.
The expressionist horror of Schoenberg's music is very real - IT WAS horrible to live in Vienna as those who spat at you, defamed you and wanted to murder you were already in power - before the NAZI's but there is so much deamlike warmth in the works like Trasfigured Night and the Gurrelieder and so much love - but Schoenberg was right the reality by 1909 was very clear it hate that would win.
shoenberg will never be understood unless something changes in the way people think becouse hismusic was avantguard..so it means samething that people could understand later on.....but how things are going even the rhythm will be too much for people to understand.....now its lady gaga tomorrow we might be listening only to a snare drum recorded on a cd...people are degenerating musicasly,spiritualy and mentaly......
@pugay69 "Persecution complex"?! People repeatedly tried to wreck performances of his works. Even now, on this very webpage, people are still spitting abuse at him. Not to mention, of course, that he had to flee from the Nazis. He wasn't *imagining* the persecution that he suffered.
@alienalienss Schoenberg clearly was a victim of intrigue and antisemitism, but that does not come to bear on my point, which is about the self-imposed alienation of contemporary music.
@pugay69 Even regardless of Schoenberg, I don't know why you think contemporary music has imposed alienation on itself. Composers love their music to be performed in concert as much now as at any other time. What more would you like?
i have to compose a serialism music but i dont get how you compose it. like i know you have to follow the 12-note system but is the bottom and the top (piano) meant to follow their own seperate individual 12 note system...or do they have to be like sort of together? for example...at 3:42 i dont get how both hands work with serialism. thanks.
Schoenberg is one of my favorite composers. Especially "ASurvivor of Warsaw," "Serinade for 7 Instruments" and "Five Pieces for Orchestra" He is taughted for inventing the Dodecaphonic method of composing but it to me anyway, is his incredibly colorful orchestration-such depth.
flashherrt, you forget that art is dynamic and changes constantly because civilization can't be static. excuse my english. El arte no puede estar detenido in the "old ways" los artistas del pasado fueron grandes en su tiempo.
If you want to experience the degree of expression one can reach by means of 12 tone music listen to "A Survivor from Warsaw". And there is still much of Wagner in it.
As someone who studied with a student of Schoenberg, I can tell you that this is a very typical discussion of his music, filled with both insight and complete misunderstanding. Schoeberg took music as he found it and took it where he thought it naturally led. 12 tone music is an arrangement of the chromatic scale. It is akin to a fugue subject, from which all the musical materials of a piece are derived. The free use of dissonance and lack of triadic resolution is the problem many people have.
not sure what the argument here is on so called "atonal music", which btw Schoenberg himself hated that term. Schoenberg basically found a way to rearrange the same 12 tones found in tonality, except in quiet a different way. Sure, functional tonality has matured through a long evolution until it finally collapsed from the weight of chromatic dissonance. But, this music is a direct extension of that collapse, as well as being part of the evolution of music harmony.
Someone asked does anyone study this stuff? yes, I am doing a masters in composition at the moment and I must point out... anything this individual laurion69 says should be completely ignored. the name has popped up repetitively across Youtube recently on ALL videos relating to contemporary composition. This idividual hates across the board, from Aleatoric music to Serial. To denigrate Serial music as a failure... *laughs... give me a break and read a book buddy.
I will comment that aleatoric music, except in passages Where complete cacophany is required, is, in my humble opinion, an moronic way to compose, and a slap in the face to all composers who actually write music. On all other accounts, however, i completely agree with you, sir. Where are you studying for your masters?
I think Schoenberg is a complete genius, but people who aggrandize serialism as if it is "the only way" are just as degenerate as the ones who detest Schoenberg. His music is great because it has a mysteriousness which allows the mind to go beyond itself and experience participation in something that goes beyond all thought and talk.
I am curious how many who commented here have actually studied set theory and twelve tone techniques? If you do so, you will learn that a major scale us just another set of pitches just like a 12tone row is. Also, the assumption that 12 tone music is written any differently than tonal music is also false (unless it's done poorly). In both instances, The goal is to communicate and the composer immerses him/her self in a sound world governed by rules and standards of pitch organization. cont'
I would direct you to Listen to Mitsuko Uchida play some of his piano music. It's quite lyrical and beautiful. Also, I'm afraid there is this place called Hollywood California that would strongly disagree with your notion that the rules don't work since it is NOT uncommon to use 12 tone techniques to write film scores even today.
.. lot of composers at the turn of the century was developing harmony in the direction of atonality. I recommend you listen to Mahler's late works, Scriabin, Debussy, Ravel and even Strauss. It's clear from your posts that you don't know anything, really, spare yourself the embarrassment and just give up your unintelligible comment-sprees.
So you think that there is "natural music"? You are abbsolutely wrong, pal. The equal temperament is the most artificial system, is not based in the natural harmonics. I think that you have to study some music history. The perception is guided by the habit.
It has not reached because it has very little difusion. At least here in Argentina the people doesn t know schoenberg and his works. If you here gamelan music or any tribal music that sounds you strange because you don t know it, but that s not "antinatural" music. There s no common perception, it depends on the habit.
I must agree with hexatonico. If atonal/serial/contemporary music be a part of our culture, if this music came to your ears when you were young, you would have accepted it as your ears accepted tonal music. In the Pacific Island, the aboriginals there play in a scale wich divide the Octave in 8, istead of 12 like us. And their music is much more ancient than ours and is still works. What do you think they say about our music ? You dislike serial music because you can't accept it. That's all.
art was never there only to reach the common people.
special things and special art are precious to special people.
only the majority counts in countries with 'totalitarian' tastes, like perhaps nowadays in italy, where taste is dictated by a selected few under the wings of quasi fascist berlusconi influence
I think Value judgments based on how "common" a said object are unhelpful. Different music has different levels of information density. If the information is coherent, but the density low, the piece isn't worse than another with just more information per second.
We have different temperaments, some like smaller ensembles with less complexity, others huge orchestras and very complicated textures.
The quality dichotomy between for example pop music and classical music is false for this reason.
wow..... OMG!!! U2, you make me laugh! i don't know what to say. Musical communism?? that is rediculous. HAHAHA. You're a complete idiot, and you are sooooo racist. It's people like you that keep hatred in this world. You are able to find racism in music, now that is a unique,and sickening quality
One more thing: Stalin killed as many Jewish people as Hitler did. The great disgrace for the human race is that Stalin was in the winning side of WWII.
1. Webern's choice for the sax indeed meant no inherent choice qua jazz; jazz absent qua structures/rhythms, but rather because of interesting Klangfarbe of that instrument;
2. "Stalin equally bad as Hitler"/"Stalin the antisemite": "We must stand together to crush Bolshevism" (Hitler repetedly towards Western Allies). Revisionist historians stress the delusion, that Hitler "HAD" to attack Soviet-Russia (see f.ex. Nolte)
This discussion is unworthy of a Schönberg-forum. Thanks to u2metub.
I agree with the fact that u2metub has polluted this Schönberg-forum with his racist comments, but someone has to answer to that. Concerning the Klangfarbe, can you explain me what it is? Thank you.
Then if you refer to my argument, I completely disagree. I consider Stalin as bad as Hitler because both were mass murderers. Obviously you read something I did not say. I do not have Nazi views at all.
Atonal music was extremely far from the aesthetics imposed by Stalin, so mixing it with a "musical comunism" is, I think, simply a mistake. And Shostakovich is the example of this.
And to those who consider atonal music as "musical comunism", I recommend them to read any biography about Dimitri Shostakovich & the difficulties he had in order to create his art (from the first problems he had, caused by his opera "Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District" to the music he had to write for a film about the assassin Stalin in order not to be killed). Bernd Feuchtner wrote very eloquently about the difficulties Shostakovich had to create in the U.S.S.R.
So sad there are people who mix racism with art. Jewish people have made a great contribution to all kind of art, to which I personally am very grateful. Schoenberg changed the face of classical music, together with Charles Ives. And they did it without knowing each other's work, so far one from the other.
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The only reason this garbage has had any "influence" over the musical world is because the Jews are pushing this trash in the same manner they agitated Communism to the masses, so they may destroy their eternal enemy, the white man, by corrupting his artistic heritage. Atonal music is nothing but a Trojan horse, and you fools have let it enter your castle already. May this sacrilege and its purveyors be destroyed and placated by any means available.
I don't think you have the first idea what you are talking about. Schoenberg wrote very little atonal music. He mainly wrote in 2 styles, tonal (Transfigured Night, Songs of Gurre etc) and 12 tone (Wind 5tt onwards). He wrote as much tonal music as any other style. He encouraged pupils to develop their ability to master tonality and classical form and never pushed them into uncomfortable styles. For balance why not attack non Jews like Stravinsky, Ives, Varese etc? Your argument is very weak.
no i will not shut up. i have been deeply angered by the arts of late (all the arts visual, culinary, performing and literary) for it seems to me that people have forgotten about the "old ways" and seem to think that the newer art forms are the only ones with any credibility and anyone who prefers the older things is somehow lost or just unappreciative. for example poets who write strictly in freeverse and insult those who prefer form and scheme, because some how rhyme makes you a worse poet.
Great interview, thanks for posting it! It is odd that people sometimes seem to think that the numerically based, systematic nature of twelve-tone technique precludes any kind of emotional expression. Given a good enough computer, we could probably teach it to "compose" tonal music too -- program it with some of the basic chord progressions, tell it to avoid parallel fifths, and off you go! (well, maybe not quite that simple, but you get the idea...).
@p0lyph0ny such a computer does exist and it created a ridiculous amount of controversy when musicologists mistook it's work for newly discovered Bach
Vladek, that's a very good comment. I can't agree more. You just put it into words better than I could. I've been having many conversations recently about an intellectual "system-exploring" appeal of music that goes beyond a mere superficial "pleasing to the ears" approach.
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Hey idiot, in classical music one doesn't use only seven notes "of a scale". There is chromaticism, counterpoint, modulation and above all, melody, all of which are absent from the standard Jewish trash. In great music, there is such a thing as tonal hierarchy, which prevents imbeciles such as Schoenberg from vomiting all diatonic and chromatic tones onto the paper, all at once. Atonal "music" is nothing but musical communism, a dictatorship of mediocrity, and that is a Jewish plot to destroy.
personally, I don't really like modern music. It isn't as moving to me as much as Chopin's Ballade no. 4. I am not saying modern music is bad, but I find it hard to listen to and find an emotion that is being expressed. I get confused. Also, I thought of this that modern music sounds very jazzy if you listen.
You're right, though--aesthetics of music have progressed beyond its emotive qualities--in the academic realm, at least. The appeal of modern music is certainly more mental than emotional, but neither is better than the other. To suggest so would be comparable to declaring that Goethe was a better writer than Hegel, or Hegel better than Goethe. That's what frustrates me about some people (quite a few) who say "Schoenberg's stuff isn't music." It unquestionably is...
...A language not one's own will sound like gibberish until one puts forth the effort to learn it; with time, one may find the new language quite meaningful and appealing.
Thanks for your comment. I love Chopin, as well...I couldn't live without him!
In fact, jazz and contemporary music have some times so much in common that there were some composers who were really fascinated with jazz music. Extraordinary examples of this are, if I am not mistaken, Bela Bartók's "Sonata for two pianos and percussion", Anton Webern's "Quartet with saxophon", Igor Strawinsky's "Dumbarton Oaks" and Bernd Aloïs Zimmerman's "Die Soldaten."
And vice versa. I heard today in the radio (DRS 2, Switzerland) that Charlie Parker was fascinated with contemporary classical music (Bartok, Schönberg, Varese). He even asked Edgar Varese whether he (Varese) would teach him composition. Varese agreed. Unfortunately, Charlie Parker died soon after.
It is so moving to hear his voice. He taught Webern, who taught Emile Spira who taught me, so I was lucky enough to hear this music before I was old enough to know it was Difficult. When you are young, it is easy to appreciate that, say, the Violin Concerto is as romantic as Verklaerte Nacht and, of course, Tristan.
Me too...Isn't that fascinating, though...why is it, you suppose? Why do certain combinations of sounds make us sigh or smile and others make us shiver? Why is Ligeti so terrifying and Ravel so breathtaking? Life would be so much less interesting without music, I'm convinced.
Hi Vladek, apoligies if any of my earlier comments seemed like an attack on your tastes, (style of composition ?). I only really write things like this so that I can hear what serialists really have to say. For me, hearing that people like something is not enough, I want to know why they like it, and therefore what I can gain from liking it!
I think one day I may enjoy such works, but until then I'm fascinated by Verklarte Nacht. I'm also listening to lots of Ravel and Debussy.
I remember a Spanish journalist, Ramón Trecet, on the radio saying that there cannot be "evolution" in music, meaning that XXIst century music is not better than the music composed before. This can be said of any artistic discipline. And to illustrate this with an example, Schoenberg and Puccini were friends and great admirers of each other's work, so I don't see the point in seeing Schoenberg or Stravinsky as "bad influences". You can love Monteverdi, Ligeti and Gubaidulina at the same time.
Music, as all arts, changes, and I guess he was not satisfied with a work like "Verklarte Nacht", as Joyce was not satisfied with "Dubliners" or the "Portrait". As Schoenberg taught Webern, Berg, and many of his other students (Cage, Skalkottas, Gerhard, Harrison) if a composer wants to go further in the art of composition, s-he has to know very well the tradition. Knowing this tradition, he just needed a new musical language to express himself, as the great Charles Ives did.
Schoenberg made one of the most difficult steps in music history when he left his post-Wagnerian style in such beautifuk works as "Verklarte Nacht", "Pelleas et Melisande" (Maeterlinck was fortunate that a group of great composers got interested in his play), or "Gürre Lieder" in order to accomplish a musical revolution which he probably knew would arise hostility. "Pierrot Lunaire", "Moses und Aron" or "Die Jakobsleiter", are, just from my two ears' point of view, great masterpieces.
Which recording of Moses und Aron do you prefer? Of course, I've never found it anywhere, so I suppose I'll have to order it; I'd like to make sure I get the best one.
Charles Ives...There's another absolutely brilliant yet largely misunderstood musician!
You're absolutely right...As the saying goes, the best writers are the ones who've read more than everyone else. Thanks for your comments.
The only recording I have listened to is the one edited by Phillips, with Michael Gielen as conductor, in 1974, which celebrated Schoenberg's centenary. I've seen other recordings by Pierre Boulez, Hermann Scherchen and Georg Solti, which I would love to listen.
Yes, I agree with what you say about Ives. Thank you very much for your comment and this extraordinary post. First time I listen to Schoenberg speaking.
Yes, I much agree. Gielen is overall a grandiose conductor for this music and I think of uploading some of that uncredible, seizing "Moses". I like Gielen, Reinbert de Leeuw and David Atherton all better than Boulez.
I haven't heard the Gielen that lamedwufnik refers to, but Boulez's Sony recording of this with the BBC Singers & BBC Symphony Orchestra is quite good. I've heard that the Boulez's second M & A recording, on DG with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, is even better. In general Boulez is my favorite choice for the 2nd Viennese School.
Well, whether I like the majority of Schoenberg's music or not, it would be short sighted for me to post outright insulting criticism of him, since he did light the spark of some of my favourite pieces of the 20th century. The planets suite was very much influenced by Funf Orchesterstuck which I'll admit to not having listened to yet.
I'll certainly have a listen to the pieces you mentioned, and even if it's not my thing, chances are I'll learn something from it!
I have to be honest though, I can't see why a man who wrote a piece like Verklarte Nacht, which by my own understanding could only have been written pre-dominantly by ear and enhanced by technique, would turn to a system that doesn't require such a masterful ear. Maybe I've missed the point slightly, but I just wished he had continued writing music like Verklarte Nacht, as well as his serialistic projects. There's no doubt his serial pieces have been important to the development of music though!
This music reminds me of the famous quote by Twain: Wagner's music is better than it sounds!!........LOL...imagine what Twain would say about the charlatan Schoenberg!
Twain's would-be opinion is irrelevant--you're missing the point, friend. If you can't understand how and why this is music, that is your problem. I offered you literature on the subject, but beyond that, I'm not sure what I can do for you. If you dislike Schoenberg's music that much, just don't listen to it; stop posting angry comments on my page.
Angry? I would hardly call my posting angry......I don't think Schoenberg wrote what I would call music....I mean it sounds like crap......maybe what he did was some sort of theoretical mathematical treatment of musical notes....whatever....but not music.......but in the end he got away with him so hell bless him!...I am certainly not angry.....just wondering how I can come up with some gimmick like this so peopel think I'm a genius too!!LOL!!
gevork is right, just listen to verklarte nacht which has no twelve-tone method. It is a masterpiece, and the man I'm sure was a musical genius. However Schoenberg is a mirror of a once incredibly able athlete, who ruined his life through drugs. 'Hey kids, do you wanna end writing music like Schoenberd? Then don't do twelve-tone!'
Since twelve tone is purely academic and mathematic, we might as well allow super-computers to write music, since a computer can perform vastly superior calculations.
Don't fall into the trap of Stravinsky and Schoenberg and ruin any chance you have of writing some good music. Stay away from that twelve-tone, he's a bad influence!
ignorant my comments are not. however i admit i have a tendency to exaggerate but my point remains. because what these people did was villainous and unforgivable. these people have made it almost impossible to be a modern composer and write tonal music, or be a poet and use rhyme, how would you like it if the music and poems you poured your heart into were constantly being ridiculed and written off as pedantic, or hackneyed, or out dated and some how your love for chant and form are "just dumb"
These people only opened up MORE possibilities for art and music. Life develops and moves on, therefore so does art, music, culture etc. things can't stay the same forever. But just because they did something new doesn't make what went before them rubbish or irrelevant. I understand about feeling out dated as I study fine art and there's a lot of pressure to do installations when all I want to do is PAINT. But if you have a reason for working the way you do then people can't discredit your work.
i agree with what you're saying and i understand i shouldn't let others discredit my work but it's kind of hard when they're your teachers, and the problem is while going to school you have to appease your instructors no matter what, even if you hate what you are writing, then in order to make a living you have to appease the audience and again no matter how much you hate it and who wants to hate their own work,
@ flasherrt@. Move to a free country and your work will be read or performed, no matter in what style it is done.
When you can compose tonal music that really adds something to the western tradition, everybody will be happy to hear is. The problem however is that most composers that claim they compose in the 'true spirit of tradition' can't manage to compose a new interesting tonal work, but only repeat their idols and examples.
@VladekMeyer83 This is an excellent interview, but I disagree slightly with the mixing of the music works accompanying it. Schoenberg has a very thick, idiosyncratic accent, and the highly engaging nature of the music (particularly the 3 Pieces for Piano) distracts, rather than enhancing the conversion.
i like his paintings... you can hear that the man has a dear, if troubled heart. maybe it's just me, but he definitely came off as cocky in the past. that perceived attitude combined with how some of his stuff sounds made me ignore him. he's a little too atonal for me.... while i REALLY DO LOVE some of his textures, i wish he would take them different directions. he just does it all day. oh well. i guess that's his contribution to me. i appreciate it.
I am always thankful for videos of cultural and historical value such as this one is! Even though it's not always easy for me to feel close to Schönberg's music, I find he said something very important when asked how he believes his style will continue to influence composition. He stressed that in his idea it is of fundamental importance, apart from learning the new technique, never to lose sight of the masters from whom he himself learnt, meaning Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms and Bach!
brilliant human being....I am a rock guitarist and keyboardist (not by choice,but by limitation,ah ah) ,and I love 'Theory Of Harmony' and 'Style And Idea',the two most highly educative books I have read
a lot of deep thought and a deeply enquiring mind like Schoenberg's ,require a lot,a lot of energy,a very strong mind. You can see that in his eye. And it's not for everyone. I don't blame you. I too sometimes felt like I would stop reading for a while. But then I have inevitably felt attracted to these thoughts again,and I have learned so much
It's not the most pleasant to listen to, but it is decidedly still music--even contemporary musicians who detest his methods admit he was a brilliant composer. You may want to have a look at some of his essays. They provide an excellent basis for approaching his compositions; you start to understand just what he was trying to accomplish. Check out the book Style and Idea. But to dismiss him altogether because you don't like the way he sounds...don't you think that's a little unfair?
not all composers will admit schoenberg is music. i myself am a contemporary composer and i hate schoenberg i think he is one of the worst things ever to happen in the history of civilization. i would also extend the criminal status to debussy, stravinsky, hindamith, cage, crumb, ives, berg, webern, monet, picasso,dali, joyce, bukawski, and the list goes on and on. in addition the a-tonal, twelve tone, and quartal systems are simply the tool which slaughtered the musical world and the
What I find especially valuable about this interview is Schoenberg's insistence that the future of music continue to draw on the example of the three B's and of Mozart; that his music should be understood as the explorations of one classically-trained creative mind, not necessarily to be imitated. As it happens, contemporary classical has done exactly as Schoenberg predicted.
incredible....an interview! I have studied some of Shoenberg's 'Theory of Harmony' ,a book that I wish I complete studying. His thoughts are highly educative. An unique and brilliant mind
Awful, just as modern art is anti-art; this crap is anti-music. Yet observe at all the people here who are doing their best to pretend that its wonderful - group think.
GTBeauregard 4 weeks ago
I love his voice
machtrebel 3 months ago
Very interesting stuff but the music gets in the way in places even though it's quite nice - and I can't hear what he's saying. Please put the music and conversation on separate posts (if you can that is).
RollaArtis 5 months ago
The music drowned him out a bit toward the end, but I had heard that part of the interview elsewhere. He is talking about having learned his technique for string quartet writing through Mozart.
Frankly, I liked his art more than his music. I was glad to see him stress the importance of older composers, though...something I think some need to remember today. Interesting that Stravinsky, Bartok, and Hindemith felt the same way about those composers but came to such different conclusions.
MaestroTJS 7 months ago
little bit hard to understand with music&no subs
caccopardo 7 months ago
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zsinet3 9 months ago
I love his voice. He sounds genius.
ChickCherub 10 months ago
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Serialism is not a progression nor a advancement, it is the emperors new clothing, a illusion of "intellectualism" that if you do not buy into you will be labeled a Ignoramus...
Gargantupimp 10 months ago
biggie and beethoven and :)
DanKreiger 11 months ago
It's hard enough to hear without the music underneath. The interview stands alone and it is easy enough to find the music, so why not leave it out?
adamsrj06 1 year ago
Hey what was the piece that was behind his interview I want to look it up :)
Evilclown9999 1 year ago
@Evilclown9999 then I realised at the end you put them :S silly me
Evilclown9999 1 year ago
What a terrific interview! He was such a tremendous figure as a composer/artist, and now after listening to much of this interview, I'd have to say much the same thing as a person.
bsdml 1 year ago
Ineluctably, there are enough musicological resources to reference (including Schoenberg's own writings) to best comprehend one of Western music's most controversial and inspired geniuses.
Do the work, or refrain from posting inconsequential, banal commentary.
pooperscoopr69 1 year ago
That would have been so cool if he kept painting...
flutist1989 1 year ago
The expressionist horror of Schoenberg's music is very real - IT WAS horrible to live in Vienna as those who spat at you, defamed you and wanted to murder you were already in power - before the NAZI's but there is so much deamlike warmth in the works like Trasfigured Night and the Gurrelieder and so much love - but Schoenberg was right the reality by 1909 was very clear it hate that would win.
IrishClaudius 1 year ago
Thank you, Thank you so much for sharing such rare documents from our Western music History.
ObeeLektro 1 year ago
shoenberg will never be understood unless something changes in the way people think becouse hismusic was avantguard..so it means samething that people could understand later on.....but how things are going even the rhythm will be too much for people to understand.....now its lady gaga tomorrow we might be listening only to a snare drum recorded on a cd...people are degenerating musicasly,spiritualy and mentaly......
mantatnam 1 year ago
GREAT GENIUS!
johnnynoirman 1 year ago
His iconoclasm and persecution complex have carried over into much of modern classical music, much to its detriment.
pugay69 1 year ago
@pugay69 "Persecution complex"?! People repeatedly tried to wreck performances of his works. Even now, on this very webpage, people are still spitting abuse at him. Not to mention, of course, that he had to flee from the Nazis. He wasn't *imagining* the persecution that he suffered.
alienalienss 1 year ago
@alienalienss Ha! Reading comprehension FTW!
pugay69 1 year ago
@pugay69 I'm sorry, did I misunderstand your comment? What are you getting at?
alienalienss 1 year ago
@alienalienss Schoenberg clearly was a victim of intrigue and antisemitism, but that does not come to bear on my point, which is about the self-imposed alienation of contemporary music.
pugay69 1 year ago
@pugay69 Even regardless of Schoenberg, I don't know why you think contemporary music has imposed alienation on itself. Composers love their music to be performed in concert as much now as at any other time. What more would you like?
alienalienss 1 year ago
He is very Amazing.. and his pictures reminds me of Nosferatu.(no offense to anyone)
monishdragon 1 year ago
could you add captions? It's quite hard to understand his voice.
shadowknight132 1 year ago
Thanks for posting this
therockhopper 1 year ago
cool vienna-slang!
MrJazznerd 1 year ago
for some reason he sounds like an extremely old winnie the pooh
flipperboy 1 year ago 4
woot! this has been very very helpful for my composition and seminar! THANKS!!!!
it is very interesting!
SB6108 1 year ago
i have to compose a serialism music but i dont get how you compose it. like i know you have to follow the 12-note system but is the bottom and the top (piano) meant to follow their own seperate individual 12 note system...or do they have to be like sort of together? for example...at 3:42 i dont get how both hands work with serialism. thanks.
scumiex 2 years ago
Do you expect Schoenberg to answer you?
SuperZeroo 1 year ago 2
Thank you for this excellent interview
Phalces 2 years ago
hola,
¿y ahora qué? ya estructuramos, ya desestructuramos, ya digitalizamos ¿Qué habrá luego?
ave5551 2 years ago
Schoenberg is one of my favorite composers. Especially "ASurvivor of Warsaw," "Serinade for 7 Instruments" and "Five Pieces for Orchestra" He is taughted for inventing the Dodecaphonic method of composing but it to me anyway, is his incredibly colorful orchestration-such depth.
tomestubbs 2 years ago
flashherrt, you forget that art is dynamic and changes constantly because civilization can't be static. excuse my english. El arte no puede estar detenido in the "old ways" los artistas del pasado fueron grandes en su tiempo.
POLANQUISSIMO 2 years ago
It is wonderful to actually here Schoenberg's voice. It's amazing he was self-taught. True genius.
SweetSweetWaldo 2 years ago
Thanks for posting - much appreciated. Are there other known english interviews with schoenberg?
JeffHayesOnline 2 years ago
This is the only one I've come across, but I'm sure there are.
VladekMeyer83 2 years ago
If you want to experience the degree of expression one can reach by means of 12 tone music listen to "A Survivor from Warsaw". And there is still much of Wagner in it.
kunnukun 2 years ago
As someone who studied with a student of Schoenberg, I can tell you that this is a very typical discussion of his music, filled with both insight and complete misunderstanding. Schoeberg took music as he found it and took it where he thought it naturally led. 12 tone music is an arrangement of the chromatic scale. It is akin to a fugue subject, from which all the musical materials of a piece are derived. The free use of dissonance and lack of triadic resolution is the problem many people have.
Varese52 2 years ago
not sure what the argument here is on so called "atonal music", which btw Schoenberg himself hated that term. Schoenberg basically found a way to rearrange the same 12 tones found in tonality, except in quiet a different way. Sure, functional tonality has matured through a long evolution until it finally collapsed from the weight of chromatic dissonance. But, this music is a direct extension of that collapse, as well as being part of the evolution of music harmony.
babyGirlKelli 3 years ago 8
Someone asked does anyone study this stuff? yes, I am doing a masters in composition at the moment and I must point out... anything this individual laurion69 says should be completely ignored. the name has popped up repetitively across Youtube recently on ALL videos relating to contemporary composition. This idividual hates across the board, from Aleatoric music to Serial. To denigrate Serial music as a failure... *laughs... give me a break and read a book buddy.
creamslut 3 years ago 4
I will comment that aleatoric music, except in passages Where complete cacophany is required, is, in my humble opinion, an moronic way to compose, and a slap in the face to all composers who actually write music. On all other accounts, however, i completely agree with you, sir. Where are you studying for your masters?
Steinway12345 2 years ago 3
I think Schoenberg is a complete genius, but people who aggrandize serialism as if it is "the only way" are just as degenerate as the ones who detest Schoenberg. His music is great because it has a mysteriousness which allows the mind to go beyond itself and experience participation in something that goes beyond all thought and talk.
Lavalampoflava 3 years ago 5
Thats a great comment
thorkill 2 years ago
for god's sake just shut the hell up and listen for once, people.
vitor54 3 years ago
Cont' and by the way, I don't really like 12 tone music much either.
tubatimb 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Atonal, serial or dodecafonic music, also called adiabatic music, has failed.
Totally.
The reasono of the failment is that language was artificial, not originated from natural evolution of common musical perception.
laurion69 3 years ago
I am curious how many who commented here have actually studied set theory and twelve tone techniques? If you do so, you will learn that a major scale us just another set of pitches just like a 12tone row is. Also, the assumption that 12 tone music is written any differently than tonal music is also false (unless it's done poorly). In both instances, The goal is to communicate and the composer immerses him/her self in a sound world governed by rules and standards of pitch organization. cont'
tubatimb 3 years ago
The point is just the product of 12 tone rules sounds as an ugly music.
It is not enough change the existing rules with others invented on a table.
After 100 years 12 tone compositions still disgust common people and its taste.
That rules do not work.
So
laurion69 3 years ago
I would direct you to Listen to Mitsuko Uchida play some of his piano music. It's quite lyrical and beautiful. Also, I'm afraid there is this place called Hollywood California that would strongly disagree with your notion that the rules don't work since it is NOT uncommon to use 12 tone techniques to write film scores even today.
tubatimb 3 years ago 4
.. lot of composers at the turn of the century was developing harmony in the direction of atonality. I recommend you listen to Mahler's late works, Scriabin, Debussy, Ravel and even Strauss. It's clear from your posts that you don't know anything, really, spare yourself the embarrassment and just give up your unintelligible comment-sprees.
TheBlackPage1 3 years ago
at least one person thinking the "right way".
slayerized667 3 years ago
So you think that there is "natural music"? You are abbsolutely wrong, pal. The equal temperament is the most artificial system, is not based in the natural harmonics. I think that you have to study some music history. The perception is guided by the habit.
hexatonico 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Infact I talked about "natural evolution of COMMON PERCEPTION".
Can you read?
The common perception of the Schoenberg's system has not happened.
It has rested on the Schoenberg's mind and has not reach the ears of people.
laurion69 3 years ago
It has not reached because it has very little difusion. At least here in Argentina the people doesn t know schoenberg and his works. If you here gamelan music or any tribal music that sounds you strange because you don t know it, but that s not "antinatural" music. There s no common perception, it depends on the habit.
hexatonico 3 years ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
No, hexatonico.
It has very little diffusion, because it has not reached common pepole.
Not the opposite.
laurion69 3 years ago
I must agree with hexatonico. If atonal/serial/contemporary music be a part of our culture, if this music came to your ears when you were young, you would have accepted it as your ears accepted tonal music. In the Pacific Island, the aboriginals there play in a scale wich divide the Octave in 8, istead of 12 like us. And their music is much more ancient than ours and is still works. What do you think they say about our music ? You dislike serial music because you can't accept it. That's all.
qwerpoiu100 2 years ago
I'm sorry, this comment was a reply to Laurion69. Go back do your classes boy.
qwerpoiu100 2 years ago
Dividing octave in 8 instead in 12 is nothing else but a more elementar way to create a scale.
This kind of music, if you note, is rather close to our system.
There are many system around the world, but all are very similar and sound similar.
The European system is hugely more complex of course and infact the Eastern cultures received and understood it totally.
Schoenberg's system is never accepted by common taste in any culture.
laurion69 2 years ago
art was never there only to reach the common people.
special things and special art are precious to special people.
only the majority counts in countries with 'totalitarian' tastes, like perhaps nowadays in italy, where taste is dictated by a selected few under the wings of quasi fascist berlusconi influence
annedegro 2 years ago 9
Let an Italian agree with you.
RoseBlackWarlock 2 years ago
Indeed, laurion. It didn't reach the 'common people'.
That means it didn't reach you. And you are a very 'common person', perhaps even too common!
Some people want to hear special things and not to conform themselves to average common things, that average boring common people only enjoy. ;-)
I hope you enjoy being so common. I enjoy other people being outstanding :-)
revions 2 years ago
There is nothing more extraordinary than to be really ordinary, my dear Revions.
laurion69 2 years ago
Yes laurion, that is another way of really ordinary interpreting yourself as: gnothi seauton
revions 2 years ago
I think Value judgments based on how "common" a said object are unhelpful. Different music has different levels of information density. If the information is coherent, but the density low, the piece isn't worse than another with just more information per second.
We have different temperaments, some like smaller ensembles with less complexity, others huge orchestras and very complicated textures.
The quality dichotomy between for example pop music and classical music is false for this reason.
Exanimousx 2 years ago
Nice to hear the voice behind the composer.
ssballs 3 years ago
he is a genius!! and modest too...he is the most important composer of the 20th century
KZM9484 3 years ago
has anyone seen the video with a live schoenberg music lecture? it was audio only and they showed examples over it.
anonmist 3 years ago
schoenberg changed my life. i love this!
anonmist 3 years ago
From what year was this interview?
Leibo07 3 years ago
Hi Leib. The interview was done by Halsey Stevens of USC at Schoenberg's home in July of 1949. Glad you liked it! --V
VladekMeyer83 3 years ago
I guess these are Schönbergs pictures ? Pretty interesting.
Zappacho 3 years ago
wow..... OMG!!! U2, you make me laugh! i don't know what to say. Musical communism?? that is rediculous. HAHAHA. You're a complete idiot, and you are sooooo racist. It's people like you that keep hatred in this world. You are able to find racism in music, now that is a unique,and sickening quality
Arailand13 3 years ago
Stalin is as guilty as Hitler.
lamedwufnik 3 years ago
One more thing: Stalin killed as many Jewish people as Hitler did. The great disgrace for the human race is that Stalin was in the winning side of WWII.
lamedwufnik 3 years ago
@ lame:
This "argument" is genuinely characteristic of Nazi-views.
"So sad there is still racism in the world"
Indeed, but probably u2bmetub isn't the only one on the forum of even this video.
Leibo07 3 years ago
I thought I read somewhere that the Quartet with Saxophone by Webern was influenced by Jazz music, but maybe I am wrong.
Which "argument" are you referring to?
lamedwufnik 3 years ago
1. Webern's choice for the sax indeed meant no inherent choice qua jazz; jazz absent qua structures/rhythms, but rather because of interesting Klangfarbe of that instrument;
2. "Stalin equally bad as Hitler"/"Stalin the antisemite": "We must stand together to crush Bolshevism" (Hitler repetedly towards Western Allies). Revisionist historians stress the delusion, that Hitler "HAD" to attack Soviet-Russia (see f.ex. Nolte)
This discussion is unworthy of a Schönberg-forum. Thanks to u2metub.
Leibo07 3 years ago
I agree with the fact that u2metub has polluted this Schönberg-forum with his racist comments, but someone has to answer to that. Concerning the Klangfarbe, can you explain me what it is? Thank you.
lamedwufnik 3 years ago
It's the tone-colour. As I understand it, it means the specific acoustical quality or possibilities of the instrument.
Don't know if this is correctly defined, since I have to improvise this.
Leibo07 3 years ago
Thank you very much.
lamedwufnik 3 years ago
Then if you refer to my argument, I completely disagree. I consider Stalin as bad as Hitler because both were mass murderers. Obviously you read something I did not say. I do not have Nazi views at all.
lamedwufnik 3 years ago
So sad there is still racism in the world.
lamedwufnik 3 years ago
Atonal music was extremely far from the aesthetics imposed by Stalin, so mixing it with a "musical comunism" is, I think, simply a mistake. And Shostakovich is the example of this.
lamedwufnik 3 years ago
And to those who consider atonal music as "musical comunism", I recommend them to read any biography about Dimitri Shostakovich & the difficulties he had in order to create his art (from the first problems he had, caused by his opera "Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District" to the music he had to write for a film about the assassin Stalin in order not to be killed). Bernd Feuchtner wrote very eloquently about the difficulties Shostakovich had to create in the U.S.S.R.
lamedwufnik 3 years ago
So sad there are people who mix racism with art. Jewish people have made a great contribution to all kind of art, to which I personally am very grateful. Schoenberg changed the face of classical music, together with Charles Ives. And they did it without knowing each other's work, so far one from the other.
lamedwufnik 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
who cares though, it doesn't sound like anything but confusion
ink24571 3 years ago
u2bmetub, i supose that you didn't talking seriously
a20008137 3 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The only reason this garbage has had any "influence" over the musical world is because the Jews are pushing this trash in the same manner they agitated Communism to the masses, so they may destroy their eternal enemy, the white man, by corrupting his artistic heritage. Atonal music is nothing but a Trojan horse, and you fools have let it enter your castle already. May this sacrilege and its purveyors be destroyed and placated by any means available.
u2bmetub 3 years ago
u2bmetub -
So you "think" (I use the term very losely) that atonal music is degenerate art, cultural bolshevism...wow, I've never heard *that* one before.
p0lyph0ny 3 years ago 6
"Atonal "music" is nothing but musical communism, a dictatorship of mediocrity, and that is a Jewish plot to destroy"
LOL
TheBlackPage1 3 years ago
I don't think you have the first idea what you are talking about. Schoenberg wrote very little atonal music. He mainly wrote in 2 styles, tonal (Transfigured Night, Songs of Gurre etc) and 12 tone (Wind 5tt onwards). He wrote as much tonal music as any other style. He encouraged pupils to develop their ability to master tonality and classical form and never pushed them into uncomfortable styles. For balance why not attack non Jews like Stravinsky, Ives, Varese etc? Your argument is very weak.
oliveroneill92 3 years ago 2
Fuck off, you racist scumbag.
lexo30 3 years ago
HAHA
GreggaryPeccary 3 years ago
I didn't kknow this gentleman was painter, great painter, bby the way.
firechinchilla 3 years ago 3
no he was an awful painter but you know who was a good painter davinci
flasherrt2 2 years ago
Shut up. Please.
DannyDaWriter 2 years ago 2
no i will not shut up. i have been deeply angered by the arts of late (all the arts visual, culinary, performing and literary) for it seems to me that people have forgotten about the "old ways" and seem to think that the newer art forms are the only ones with any credibility and anyone who prefers the older things is somehow lost or just unappreciative. for example poets who write strictly in freeverse and insult those who prefer form and scheme, because some how rhyme makes you a worse poet.
flasherrt2 2 years ago
just ignore those people and do what you want.
Medsas 2 years ago
Culinary? Did someone fry a fish in a manner you didn't like?
MusicaRicercata 2 years ago
Great interview, thanks for posting it! It is odd that people sometimes seem to think that the numerically based, systematic nature of twelve-tone technique precludes any kind of emotional expression. Given a good enough computer, we could probably teach it to "compose" tonal music too -- program it with some of the basic chord progressions, tell it to avoid parallel fifths, and off you go! (well, maybe not quite that simple, but you get the idea...).
p0lyph0ny 3 years ago 5
@p0lyph0ny such a computer does exist and it created a ridiculous amount of controversy when musicologists mistook it's work for newly discovered Bach
cnmaster01 1 year ago
Vladek, that's a very good comment. I can't agree more. You just put it into words better than I could. I've been having many conversations recently about an intellectual "system-exploring" appeal of music that goes beyond a mere superficial "pleasing to the ears" approach.
And thanks very much for sharing this interview.
faraz1729 3 years ago 4
Comment removed
kongerle 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Hey idiot, in classical music one doesn't use only seven notes "of a scale". There is chromaticism, counterpoint, modulation and above all, melody, all of which are absent from the standard Jewish trash. In great music, there is such a thing as tonal hierarchy, which prevents imbeciles such as Schoenberg from vomiting all diatonic and chromatic tones onto the paper, all at once. Atonal "music" is nothing but musical communism, a dictatorship of mediocrity, and that is a Jewish plot to destroy.
u2bmetub 3 years ago
Well you are obviously a blatant racist, congradulations.
randylahey123 3 years ago
u2bmetub, I'm just going to say just two words: Gustav Mahler.
distortingjack 3 years ago 3
tonal music is limitless and who said just because you are in one key that you cant use all twelve notes
flasherrt2 2 years ago
personally, I don't really like modern music. It isn't as moving to me as much as Chopin's Ballade no. 4. I am not saying modern music is bad, but I find it hard to listen to and find an emotion that is being expressed. I get confused. Also, I thought of this that modern music sounds very jazzy if you listen.
crzyHiPpQ 3 years ago 3
You're right, though--aesthetics of music have progressed beyond its emotive qualities--in the academic realm, at least. The appeal of modern music is certainly more mental than emotional, but neither is better than the other. To suggest so would be comparable to declaring that Goethe was a better writer than Hegel, or Hegel better than Goethe. That's what frustrates me about some people (quite a few) who say "Schoenberg's stuff isn't music." It unquestionably is...
VladekMeyer83 3 years ago
...A language not one's own will sound like gibberish until one puts forth the effort to learn it; with time, one may find the new language quite meaningful and appealing.
Thanks for your comment. I love Chopin, as well...I couldn't live without him!
VladekMeyer83 3 years ago
Well,...jazz is modern music.
bassman462 3 years ago
In fact, jazz and contemporary music have some times so much in common that there were some composers who were really fascinated with jazz music. Extraordinary examples of this are, if I am not mistaken, Bela Bartók's "Sonata for two pianos and percussion", Anton Webern's "Quartet with saxophon", Igor Strawinsky's "Dumbarton Oaks" and Bernd Aloïs Zimmerman's "Die Soldaten."
lamedwufnik 3 years ago
And vice versa. I heard today in the radio (DRS 2, Switzerland) that Charlie Parker was fascinated with contemporary classical music (Bartok, Schönberg, Varese). He even asked Edgar Varese whether he (Varese) would teach him composition. Varese agreed. Unfortunately, Charlie Parker died soon after.
howeworth 3 years ago 4
Thank you very much for the information. I didn't know that. It's a pity Parker died so young.
lamedwufnik 3 years ago 2
No, there has been no influence of jazz on Webern whatsoever.
Leibo07 3 years ago
It is so moving to hear his voice. He taught Webern, who taught Emile Spira who taught me, so I was lucky enough to hear this music before I was old enough to know it was Difficult. When you are young, it is easy to appreciate that, say, the Violin Concerto is as romantic as Verklaerte Nacht and, of course, Tristan.
Kenisnotthemayor 3 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
schoenberg sucks
arko823 3 years ago
it's a pity that there is some background music on this documentary, sometimes i hardly understand what schoenberg is speaking about
jeanjulesmarc 3 years ago
The second piece for orchestra... one of a few pieces I carry to my nightmares.
sonata1992 3 years ago
Me too...Isn't that fascinating, though...why is it, you suppose? Why do certain combinations of sounds make us sigh or smile and others make us shiver? Why is Ligeti so terrifying and Ravel so breathtaking? Life would be so much less interesting without music, I'm convinced.
VladekMeyer83 3 years ago
Well said.
sequenzaVII 3 years ago
Hi Vladek, apoligies if any of my earlier comments seemed like an attack on your tastes, (style of composition ?). I only really write things like this so that I can hear what serialists really have to say. For me, hearing that people like something is not enough, I want to know why they like it, and therefore what I can gain from liking it!
I think one day I may enjoy such works, but until then I'm fascinated by Verklarte Nacht. I'm also listening to lots of Ravel and Debussy.
Best wishes!
revoltz7 3 years ago
I remember a Spanish journalist, Ramón Trecet, on the radio saying that there cannot be "evolution" in music, meaning that XXIst century music is not better than the music composed before. This can be said of any artistic discipline. And to illustrate this with an example, Schoenberg and Puccini were friends and great admirers of each other's work, so I don't see the point in seeing Schoenberg or Stravinsky as "bad influences". You can love Monteverdi, Ligeti and Gubaidulina at the same time.
lamedwufnik 3 years ago
Music, as all arts, changes, and I guess he was not satisfied with a work like "Verklarte Nacht", as Joyce was not satisfied with "Dubliners" or the "Portrait". As Schoenberg taught Webern, Berg, and many of his other students (Cage, Skalkottas, Gerhard, Harrison) if a composer wants to go further in the art of composition, s-he has to know very well the tradition. Knowing this tradition, he just needed a new musical language to express himself, as the great Charles Ives did.
lamedwufnik 3 years ago
Schoenberg made one of the most difficult steps in music history when he left his post-Wagnerian style in such beautifuk works as "Verklarte Nacht", "Pelleas et Melisande" (Maeterlinck was fortunate that a group of great composers got interested in his play), or "Gürre Lieder" in order to accomplish a musical revolution which he probably knew would arise hostility. "Pierrot Lunaire", "Moses und Aron" or "Die Jakobsleiter", are, just from my two ears' point of view, great masterpieces.
lamedwufnik 3 years ago
Which recording of Moses und Aron do you prefer? Of course, I've never found it anywhere, so I suppose I'll have to order it; I'd like to make sure I get the best one.
Charles Ives...There's another absolutely brilliant yet largely misunderstood musician!
You're absolutely right...As the saying goes, the best writers are the ones who've read more than everyone else. Thanks for your comments.
VladekMeyer83 3 years ago
...The best **new** writers, that is.
VladekMeyer83 3 years ago
The only recording I have listened to is the one edited by Phillips, with Michael Gielen as conductor, in 1974, which celebrated Schoenberg's centenary. I've seen other recordings by Pierre Boulez, Hermann Scherchen and Georg Solti, which I would love to listen.
Yes, I agree with what you say about Ives. Thank you very much for your comment and this extraordinary post. First time I listen to Schoenberg speaking.
lamedwufnik 3 years ago
Gielen's version is extraordinary.
lamedwufnik 3 years ago
Yes, I much agree. Gielen is overall a grandiose conductor for this music and I think of uploading some of that uncredible, seizing "Moses". I like Gielen, Reinbert de Leeuw and David Atherton all better than Boulez.
Leibo07 3 years ago
I haven't heard the Gielen that lamedwufnik refers to, but Boulez's Sony recording of this with the BBC Singers & BBC Symphony Orchestra is quite good. I've heard that the Boulez's second M & A recording, on DG with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, is even better. In general Boulez is my favorite choice for the 2nd Viennese School.
p0lyph0ny 3 years ago 5
Well, whether I like the majority of Schoenberg's music or not, it would be short sighted for me to post outright insulting criticism of him, since he did light the spark of some of my favourite pieces of the 20th century. The planets suite was very much influenced by Funf Orchesterstuck which I'll admit to not having listened to yet.
I'll certainly have a listen to the pieces you mentioned, and even if it's not my thing, chances are I'll learn something from it!
revoltz7 3 years ago
I have to be honest though, I can't see why a man who wrote a piece like Verklarte Nacht, which by my own understanding could only have been written pre-dominantly by ear and enhanced by technique, would turn to a system that doesn't require such a masterful ear. Maybe I've missed the point slightly, but I just wished he had continued writing music like Verklarte Nacht, as well as his serialistic projects. There's no doubt his serial pieces have been important to the development of music though!
revoltz7 3 years ago
Schoenberg a charlatan?
schoenberg opened a vast music space exploring so much things that were never written before.
Dont be a squared-minded and somke some weed and listen to the 5 Pieces for Orchestra.
It is just about Feeling. Not about understanding a melodie or something, that's what all people wants, just to understand whats happening.
pandamorak 3 years ago 2
This music reminds me of the famous quote by Twain: Wagner's music is better than it sounds!!........LOL...imagine what Twain would say about the charlatan Schoenberg!
GEVORK6 3 years ago
Twain's would-be opinion is irrelevant--you're missing the point, friend. If you can't understand how and why this is music, that is your problem. I offered you literature on the subject, but beyond that, I'm not sure what I can do for you. If you dislike Schoenberg's music that much, just don't listen to it; stop posting angry comments on my page.
VladekMeyer83 3 years ago
Angry? I would hardly call my posting angry......I don't think Schoenberg wrote what I would call music....I mean it sounds like crap......maybe what he did was some sort of theoretical mathematical treatment of musical notes....whatever....but not music.......but in the end he got away with him so hell bless him!...I am certainly not angry.....just wondering how I can come up with some gimmick like this so peopel think I'm a genius too!!LOL!!
aa
GEVORK6 3 years ago
gevork is right, just listen to verklarte nacht which has no twelve-tone method. It is a masterpiece, and the man I'm sure was a musical genius. However Schoenberg is a mirror of a once incredibly able athlete, who ruined his life through drugs. 'Hey kids, do you wanna end writing music like Schoenberd? Then don't do twelve-tone!'
(cont.)
revoltz7 3 years ago
Since twelve tone is purely academic and mathematic, we might as well allow super-computers to write music, since a computer can perform vastly superior calculations.
Don't fall into the trap of Stravinsky and Schoenberg and ruin any chance you have of writing some good music. Stay away from that twelve-tone, he's a bad influence!
revoltz7 3 years ago
Drugs? Really now.. I know you hate Schönberg, but could you tell a little bit about that? Thanks.
sequenzaVII 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
minimalistic, and abstract art forms killed visual arts and stream of consciousness, and freeverse techniques killed literature
flasherrt2 2 years ago
That's about the most ignorant remark I've read in a long time. No wonder I tend to stay away from this website.
VladekMeyer83 2 years ago
I agree! Thanks for uploading this, really interesting.
swedishflowerpowerjo 2 years ago 2
ignorant my comments are not. however i admit i have a tendency to exaggerate but my point remains. because what these people did was villainous and unforgivable. these people have made it almost impossible to be a modern composer and write tonal music, or be a poet and use rhyme, how would you like it if the music and poems you poured your heart into were constantly being ridiculed and written off as pedantic, or hackneyed, or out dated and some how your love for chant and form are "just dumb"
flasherrt2 2 years ago
These people only opened up MORE possibilities for art and music. Life develops and moves on, therefore so does art, music, culture etc. things can't stay the same forever. But just because they did something new doesn't make what went before them rubbish or irrelevant. I understand about feeling out dated as I study fine art and there's a lot of pressure to do installations when all I want to do is PAINT. But if you have a reason for working the way you do then people can't discredit your work.
swedishflowerpowerjo 2 years ago 2
i agree with what you're saying and i understand i shouldn't let others discredit my work but it's kind of hard when they're your teachers, and the problem is while going to school you have to appease your instructors no matter what, even if you hate what you are writing, then in order to make a living you have to appease the audience and again no matter how much you hate it and who wants to hate their own work,
flasherrt2 2 years ago
@ flasherrt@. Move to a free country and your work will be read or performed, no matter in what style it is done.
When you can compose tonal music that really adds something to the western tradition, everybody will be happy to hear is. The problem however is that most composers that claim they compose in the 'true spirit of tradition' can't manage to compose a new interesting tonal work, but only repeat their idols and examples.
revions 2 years ago 2
Just out of curiosity where did you find/source this interview? What's it from?
swedishflowerpowerjo 2 years ago 2
@VladekMeyer83 This is an excellent interview, but I disagree slightly with the mixing of the music works accompanying it. Schoenberg has a very thick, idiosyncratic accent, and the highly engaging nature of the music (particularly the 3 Pieces for Piano) distracts, rather than enhancing the conversion.
RogueRotting360 1 year ago
i like his paintings... you can hear that the man has a dear, if troubled heart. maybe it's just me, but he definitely came off as cocky in the past. that perceived attitude combined with how some of his stuff sounds made me ignore him. he's a little too atonal for me.... while i REALLY DO LOVE some of his textures, i wish he would take them different directions. he just does it all day. oh well. i guess that's his contribution to me. i appreciate it.
nwilke 3 years ago
I am always thankful for videos of cultural and historical value such as this one is! Even though it's not always easy for me to feel close to Schönberg's music, I find he said something very important when asked how he believes his style will continue to influence composition. He stressed that in his idea it is of fundamental importance, apart from learning the new technique, never to lose sight of the masters from whom he himself learnt, meaning Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms and Bach!
keeskogel3291 3 years ago
brilliant human being....I am a rock guitarist and keyboardist (not by choice,but by limitation,ah ah) ,and I love 'Theory Of Harmony' and 'Style And Idea',the two most highly educative books I have read
luigiperso 3 years ago
his 'tomes' are far too deep, esoteric for me
i'm afraid,
but still I admire Mr. Schonberg for
his monumental achievements
mcgiver02 3 years ago
a lot of deep thought and a deeply enquiring mind like Schoenberg's ,require a lot,a lot of energy,a very strong mind. You can see that in his eye. And it's not for everyone. I don't blame you. I too sometimes felt like I would stop reading for a while. But then I have inevitably felt attracted to these thoughts again,and I have learned so much
luigiperso 3 years ago 2
...his music sucks!.....I don't care what anyone says...it is NOT music......
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GEVORK6 3 years ago
It's not the most pleasant to listen to, but it is decidedly still music--even contemporary musicians who detest his methods admit he was a brilliant composer. You may want to have a look at some of his essays. They provide an excellent basis for approaching his compositions; you start to understand just what he was trying to accomplish. Check out the book Style and Idea. But to dismiss him altogether because you don't like the way he sounds...don't you think that's a little unfair?
VladekMeyer83 3 years ago
not all composers will admit schoenberg is music. i myself am a contemporary composer and i hate schoenberg i think he is one of the worst things ever to happen in the history of civilization. i would also extend the criminal status to debussy, stravinsky, hindamith, cage, crumb, ives, berg, webern, monet, picasso,dali, joyce, bukawski, and the list goes on and on. in addition the a-tonal, twelve tone, and quartal systems are simply the tool which slaughtered the musical world and the
flasherrt2 2 years ago
@flasherrt2 What a small minded, ignorant and tasteless individual you are.
Learn some grammar, open your mind, and perhaps one day-long you'll overcome your overriding irrational antagonism toward modernism.
RogueRotting360 1 year ago
What I find especially valuable about this interview is Schoenberg's insistence that the future of music continue to draw on the example of the three B's and of Mozart; that his music should be understood as the explorations of one classically-trained creative mind, not necessarily to be imitated. As it happens, contemporary classical has done exactly as Schoenberg predicted.
gnolti 3 years ago
Very good, sensitive, and probing interview. A rare gem. Thank you for posting!
gnolti 3 years ago 2
Great video - wish there was more of this on youtube.
Cockdick9 4 years ago
thank you so much for posting this.
luigiperso 4 years ago
incredible....an interview! I have studied some of Shoenberg's 'Theory of Harmony' ,a book that I wish I complete studying. His thoughts are highly educative. An unique and brilliant mind
luigiperso 4 years ago
well I am not a classical musician or a classically trained musician...just a guitarist / keyboardist.
But no matter. Whenever Mr. Shoenberg speaks or writes about music and art,there's always something to learn or to think about!
luigiperso 4 years ago
Extremely interesting, happy with a possibility of real nowaday culture in you tube!
NORgluck 4 years ago
A wonderful human being he was
pragueguy 4 years ago 6
Excellent, thank you for putting this on you tube!
madderbass 4 years ago 3
Arnold Schoenberg was orjinal human, unique composer
felaketissimo 4 years ago 5
Highly intresting
damildlyshreddah 4 years ago 3