1. Full Preterist Oversight of 1 Cor 15 - Mike Blume

[acts238forever]

Excellent stuff.

[imsuckingwind]

1:9 THE APOSTLES DIDN'T SEE JESUS A CLOUD HID HIM: Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes,Greek blepó eyes - does not mean to see the lord literally;, and a cloud hid him from their sight.=Taken up secretly , or removed from field of vision the cloud is more of a vail than a means of transport.Ps.27:5, Taken up in a cloud- Greek epairó Short Definition: exalt self,Glorify GREEK DOES NOT TRANSLATE WELL INTO ENGLISH PLEASE GET A GOOD GREEK / ENGLISH DICTIONARY

[berriboy]

So, if I understand you correctly....are you saying Jesus will not reign as king over his kingdom forever? And if so, who will be king over his kingdom? Is it possible to have a kingdom, and not be a king? Help me understand what you mean when you say he'll reign until....As far as the last enemy being under His feet being death, Wouldn't that be the death that we have power over?......Power over the second death? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you..........Lord Bless

[mfblume2]

Jesus is God. But God's manifestation as SON OF GOD will cease one day.  1 Cor 15 says the Son will give the kingdom over to the Father. This is saying God will be all in all and will rule without the manifestation of SON OF GOD being necessary for that. I would say it has to do with God returning things to the state of the way they were before Adam fell into sin, with no need of a mediator. Jesus will always rule since Jesus is God manifest in flesh. So He will always rule the Kingdom.

[berriboy]

So you're saying as far as the Godhead there will be just Jesus, as God and not " god the Son", do I have that right?

[mfblume2]

I am saying Jesus is God, but His manifestation as mediator will end.

[berriboy]

Which I guess basically is the same thing

[mfblume2]

The last enemy death takes into account PHYSICAL DEATH. This defeat has not been fulfilled yet, although the cross paid it already. Not until people no longer physically die, when this mortal puts on immortality, and sinners have been cast into the lake of fire, will death be finally defeated.

[berriboy]

So you believe that one day there will be no more death?

[mfblume2]

Right. Death will be cast into the lake of fire, rev 20 said.

[berriboy]

So there will be a time when people don't die?

[mfblume2]

Partial preterism or what I call Kingdom Eschatology teaches that there is a general judgment and resurrection, and a definite END of sin, death and satan's existence in the world. At the resurrection, no more people will be born. No sinners will be around, for they will have been cast into the lake of fire.  The saints' physical bodies will have been made immortal in the resurrection, and they will physically live forever.

[berriboy]

I see what you are saying

[berriboy]

Oh...So your saying Jesus is bringing us (the church) back to the garden of eden,..where there is no sin, no sin nature, and no death (Literal/physical). But how will we add new seed to the kingdom of Jesus if there is no death and all sinners are cast into the "lake of fire"? To not have death means people don't grow old....and if people don't grow old, there can't be any new birth, because every newborn usually matures to a grown person. Which would mean we the church exist and never grows in#

[mfblume2]

there is the danger of limiting eternity future with just little old planet earth, and with all we know presently. Eternity future is not described in the bible. It will not be as it is now. Who knows the vastness of what our influence will be throughout the entire physical plain? Not nly that, but we will be just as involved in the unseen realm. All we know now is only a taste of the powers of the world to come.

[berriboy]

I agree............

[mfblume2]

Put it this way. What would God have done with mankind had not man fallen into sin? There is a purpose for mankind outside saving them from sin, once they are saved from sin.

[berriboy]

Now that's an interesting thought........what would it had been like if man had not fallen into sin........

[mfblume2]

I have thought of this for a long time. Getting souls into the Kingdom is not the ultimate will of God, although it is next to the top! The ultimate purpose for man is what God had for Adam had Adam not fallen. I believe it is to manifest His Spirit through us into the physical realm. Since man fell, He had to redeem man, and get them back to that primary purpose again. I think that will reconvene once eternity future hits us.

[berriboy]

that's good stuff..........I'm sorry I missed the Feb. conference.....I'm taking the time to look at the videos........Jesus is awesome!!!!

[tmat04]

@mfblume2

This is based, not directly at this comment, but what you are saying in the video.

Now, even though Christ was resurrected in a physical body, and even though Paul saw him in "fleshly form" when he had the vision, the resurrection is not about people being raised from the grave "physically!" The resurrection is both an INNER BODY and an OUT-OF-BODY experience! The RESURRECTION is CHRIST, and CHRIST is the RESURRECTION!

[firebirdhome]

I'm glad to see civil dialogue and not the name calling I've seen between parties debating preterism. Anyway, just pointing out that although Paul says he saw Christ, it cannot be in the same "fashion" as the others because the Ascension was a significant event. Eg. Jesus said touch me not for I have not yet Ascended. Paul did see the Lord, but as he stated, like someone born overdue. Christ had a resurrected body... but Paul is the only one who never TOUCHED it as the others did.

[mfblume2]

Thanks for your thoughts. I think the significance of the post-ascension Christ had nothing to do with having or not having the same body with which He ascended, but the difference regarded His atonement. Before He ascended and made atonement, He told Mary not to touch Him because no one must taint the high priest before atonement is made. Lev 16:17. A week later He told Thomas to touch Him, implying He made atonement and returned to the disciples since Mary's first encounter.

[CrushBook]

Eph 5:30 because members we are of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones;

Eph 5:30 makes this very clear. Did Adam have his own personal body? Yes, Did Jesus? Yes, and Jesus still does with the creation of His Church. Saying that Adam still had his own personal body, means nothing to the point the Apostle is trying to make in Eph 5. When we look at the Apostle Paul's statements he shows us that Jesus and His bride had become one flesh also. Making the Church the only body of Christ.

[mfblume2]

Again, it is as unreasonable to say Jesus has no other body than the church due to His union to the Church as it is to say marriage union of any given man to a woman causes him to no longer have a body except for his wife. If you claim union of Christ to the church is the basis for Christ having no other body than that church, then you have to say union of any man to any wife causes him to no longer have a body other than his wife. That is unreasonable to say the least!

[mfblume2]

Crushbook, you make a mistake in thinking that Christ does not have a personal body simply because the church is called His body. The bible calls Eve the body of Adam in Eph 5, and yet that did not mean Adam ceased to have a personal body aside from Eve!

[CrushBook]

mfblume, there is no mistake on the body of Christ. Paul was told that those he was persecuting were the body of Christ. We are shown that the Church is the literal body of Jesus Christ. You are somewhat confused when you say that what is presented in Eph 5 has any bearing on Adam having his own physical body. What the Apostle Paul is explaining to the church is the union of man and woman being one flesh. Like that one flesh, the coperate body of the church with Christ is also one flesh.

[mfblume2]

Eph 5 says that Eve was bone of Adam's bones and flesh of his flesh. The church is bone of Christ's bones and flesh of His flesh, too. This is where the term BODY OF CHRIST comes from -- an allusion to marriage. But it is as unreasonable to say Christ no longer has a body other than the church due to His union to it as it is to say any man married to a woman loses his own body of arms and legs and can only claim his wife as his body from that time forward.

[CrushBook]

Bible Touch Stone You didn't shoot yourself in the foot at all. You did a fantastic job!

Paul had Jesus tell him, that Paul was persecuting the BODY of Jesus. What Body? The Church. Paul was told by Jesus that he was persecuting the Church which was at that moment the Body of Christ. Bible Touch Stone, keep up the great job and please continue with your responses. :)

[Bibletouchstone]

Grace be to you Mr. Blum,

Nice appeal to Scripture! I'm glad you brought up some of these issues that weren't afforded by my first video. Will respond tomorrow. I think you ignored that the first century saints were baptized into His death (in Him) awaiting to be raised in Him. I Can hardly wait to respond! I'm about to watch your next video. Grace be to you!

Bible-Touchstone

[damildlyshreddah]

Great response. Can't wait for part 2