I love the last point u made! Of coz im not selling the BMW cuz im still pretty sane! (Put the situation in reverse... u don't want to sell the BMW either)
If you say person A has raped a hundred children and he deserves to be castrated w/o anesthetic, hey I'm with you. God has allowed me that understanding. Eternal damnation is a different story. The best evidence that god has not done all he could is that he's provided no one with a visceral understanding of why such an unimaginably harsh punishment is necessary. For being BORN guilty??? Only a misanthropic psychopath could have the understanding to which I refer.
Lets make this simple. If you believe in God, and his son, and live a righteous life, you will be saved. If you refuse to believe and do what you want you will not be saved, God is merciful, and yet you spread this crap all over youtube. Being "good" won't get you into heaven.
Even if the christian god does exists (unlikely), I would still vehemently reject him. I can't and won't love anyone who tells me that he (or she) loves me, then commands me to love him, bow down and worship him, and to acknowledge him as my lord and master, followed by the threat of hell if I don't and the bribe of riches in heaven if I do. If christians are okay with dominate/submissive and master/slave relationships, that's their choice.
The idea that some would rebel also brings something else up. What about all those other religions? Their followers tend to be devout. They go to temple as often as they should, they pray, tithe, and bow to their creator. Their creator is not yours, so no matter how zealous they are, they will never be saved. How could an all loving creator watch this, and simply ignore them?
I don't know... sounds like Intrepidman doesn't understand a whole lot about Scripture by listening to what you're arguing against. That being said... if the Son divested Himself of His former glory to come down here as a Man, and then the Father allowed Him to be murdered to pay for our sins, it sounds like They sacrificed a lot more than a Beamer or a 100 bucks.... Wouldn't you agree?
@Thistlesifter220 Let's say what they sacrificed was indeed a lot more than a beamer or $100. Let's say its value was equal to that of all of the universe's wealth and resources, including human resources. In fact, let's say its value was equal to that of everything created. It doesn't matter where you draw the line, stopping at any point short of accomplishing the ultimate goal perfectly and instantly is using roughly 0% of God's power. Watch the last 2 minutes again.
@thewrittenWerd Instant results doesn't work when it comes to human experience. Humans, especially those of us here in this 21st century, Western culture, want instant gratification, an instant way out of trouble we get into, instant wealth, etc.... The Ultimate Goal is in the process of being accomplished, but it is going to be done God's Way and in His time, not mine, not yours. And how much of His power He is using to do this, I do not know. The problem is, our idea of perfection is flawed.
@Thistlesifter220 Well, the longer he waits, the more people suffer. If we are to believe that his ultimate goal is our happiness, waiting seems really counter-productive, when he has the power to end suffering instantly. Give a sufficient reason why he should allow this. Simply saying that we can't understand or are unaware of his reasons doesn't give anyone a reason to believe in God, it just means we either dismiss him based on a lack of evidence, or we suspend judgement.
A sufficient reason? We have no choice but to allow it; it is what it is. God has no choice but to wait because man has readily rejected Him from the beginning. How can He save someone who is forever running away from Him, or shaking their fist at Him? God desires a relationship with us, but we reject Him and get mad at Him when bad stuff happens, and then we claim He isn't real.
@Thistlesifter220 Don't start the story in the middle. Humans did not have to be inherently sinful, God made it so. The people only run away because God has given them no reason to believe he exists. Who's fault is this? God knew the outcome of all of this before he even began making arrangements for something beside himself to exist, and he still made the same decisions and created this universe this way, knowing the monstrosities that would occur.
@Thistlesifter220 Now personally, I don't think this is even a strong argument against God. A much stronger and extremely simple argument is pointing out that God's version of justice involves punishing individuals for crimes they did not commit. Scott (TBS) touches on this in his God's Checklist video. Why would such a loving God create such a system? The sacrifice of Jesus would never have been necessary if God had only decided to punish humans based on individual merit.
@Thistlesifter220 See, the problem with that is, you start the story in the middle, as if all humans had to be sinful, which is simply not the case. As I go on to say later in my posts, God could have easily decided to punish humans based on their individual merit, or to put it differently, punish or reward them based on whether or not they actually sin and fall short, rather than making them sinful, and dooming them to always sin and fall short of the glory of God. What kind of hero is that?
@Thistlesifter220 Given that, how irresponsible does God's decision to punish man kind based on the sins of Adam and Eve seem? It not only causes us to suffer unnecessarily, it required Jesus to die a horrible death.
If God's plan is supposed to be perfect, and I have the correct understanding of the word perfect, God's plan should be so good that no other plan could better serve the same purpose. Why is it so easy for us to conceive a better plan? One with minimal suffering is a start.
@Thistlesifter220 Let me make a short analogy. If God were a firefighter, and you and I were stuck in a building on fire, would you say that a plan involving any waiting period before a rescue attempt was made was the best plan possible, given that this firefighter had perfect firefighting knowledge, skills and resources? This would mean that the attempt would succeed, guaranteed, no doubt in the world. Why wait, when every second, lives are being lost?
@Thistlesifter220 One final post. If the reason for suffering is to be explained through free will and God's desire to have humans be responsible moral agents, rather than robots, why in on earth did he make it such that we would have no choice in being sinful? That seems to me to be removing the option of mankind to serve God in perfection, which, if I understand correctly, is how he wanted to be served in the first place. Why did he choose to have his heart broken so many times over?
@thewrittenWerd The purpose of free will and overcoming our sinful nature is that we must consciously make an effort to do what is right in the choices we make. Why? Because God is building a family, and man's completion will be when man, himself, becomes God. Therefore God must know that He can trust us before He takes us to that stage/level of reality, because it comes with power enough to create suns, universes and life... He will not have another rebel, especially one with His power.
@Thistlesifter220 I wasn't arguing about the purpose of free will. I was arguing about the explanation for suffering, which Christians often claim is free will, along with God's desire for humans to be responsible moral agents. This is the exact defense that Christian scholars such as William Lane Craig use. The problem with the stance that suffering is necessary for free will to exist is that it only explains a small portion of suffering.
@Thistlesifter220 Continuing: The free will defense only explains the reason for suffering as a result of rebellion against God. It does not explain why all humans must inherit sin, thus removing their ability to please their creator by serving him in perfection. If anything, God making his arrangement such that we inherit sin shows a grand infraction of our free will. He has removed the option of perfection until he decides to give it back, but this contradicts his goal, so it seems.
@thewrittenWerd What is sin? Is sin the only thing we have to overcome? You missed the point - God is building a family. Us worshiping Him is for our benefit, not His ego. The whole thrust of sin is independence... we think we can be truly successful doing things 'our way'. But again, what is God's definition of sin? We can overcome sin, with God's help, but again this takes a real relationship with Him. Thus Christ instructed us to call Him, Father... God is building a family of those willing.
@Thistlesifter220 If you read what I'm saying, I'm not calling for independence. The entire situation is a result of God putting all humans in the same basket and marking it spoiled. We didn't even get the chance to decide whether we wanted to follow God or not. He made the decision for us, and he made the wrong one. This alone is enough to dismiss the concept of God, as we know it, as his very existence would necessarily mean that he is imperfect, given the current state of humanity.
@thewrittenWerd Again, our concept of perfection is imperfect and not the same as God's, whose is perfect. Wisdom is justified by her children.... It's not that you are calling for independence, it's that THAT is man's natural proclivity, which is the cause for the separation between God and man. You have a chance to decide every minute of every day - your choices lead you to your conclusions. He did not make the decision for us - He merely gave us the choices to make....
@Thistlesifter220 He did make the decision for us, insofar as he decided that all humans born after Adam and Eve would inherit sin, rather than keeping or losing perfection based on their own decisions. Each of us are born with sin, whether we want it or not, so yes, Thistle, God did make the choice for us.
@thewrittenWerd No, that's not correct... what we suffer is a direct result of Adam and Eve's disobedience. Moreover, we can choose to not sin... but again, what is sin? Can you define it?
@Thistlesifter220 "what we suffer is a direct result of Adam and Eve's disobedience." That's the point. It's not "our" (as in any human excluding Adam and Eve) choice. God made the arrangement so that sin is inherited. Adam and Eve's choices should have no impact on us. We should have been born into perfection, then either maintained that state, or lost it, depending on whether or not we obeyed God. Now, obviously, either this is not what God wanted, or God doesn't exist.
@Thistlesifter220 Let's say you have a boss and a very terrible coworker. One day, he calls you and this coworker into his office, and explain to you that the next time this coworker messes up, you're both fired. You have absolutely nothing to do with his actions, but you receive punishment anyway. This is the real problem. To add to this, you are a good worker, and it is in your boss's best interest to keep you on the job. Why in the world would the boss make this arrangement?
@thewrittenWerd That is an invalid analogy, because in this scenario neither worker can be truly good. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. What is this sin that we all have done? You have yet to answer my question: what is sin? Can you define it?
@Thistlesifter220 I mean, certainly you would agree that it is God's goal that we serve him in total perfection in paradise. Let's say that I had the intention of giving you a shiny new gold watch. If, shortly after giving it to you, your father stole some of my cupcakes that I made for myself and my family, which I had told him not to take, and you openly and honestly agreed that he was in the wrong, should I take the gold watch back? In what sense would that action be just?
religions are a BUSINESS-they would NOT exist if they couldnt make money off PIMPING WOMENS BODIES into marriage and fathers rights- richest pimps on earth-thats why they ATTACK and murder massage parlor owners and women who have their OWN sex business BUT DONT GIVE A CUT TO THE PRIESTS- all PURELY BUSINESS and squashing the COMPETITION- name me ONE religion which DOESNT rely on MARRIAGE-marital sex-slavery business- even gov define religious leader as "a person qualified to perform marriages"
Hell is a tool used to scare people stupid. Literally. People are so afraid of hell, they are acting stupid.The Bible says God is unchanging, but even within the context of the Bible, He is inconsistent at best The fact that there are so many sects of Christianity that interpret God completely differently is proof that he hasn't made Himself known to us, thus providing us with a means of salvation. Christians don't even agree on what God is exactly.
What a bunch of hooey ... a "lake of fire"! Two thirds of the world's population is not Christian and does not believe in Jesus Christ as God and Savior. So do Christian apologists believe that they are all going to "hell"? ... which, by the way, is a fantacy. And what about this dude called the "devil"? Does he really want all of them in this fictional "hell"? And WHY would he if they're all just burning and screaming. We're to believe the "devil" is just a sadist? What a load of crap!!
You can argue all you want with men but you can't argue with the scriptures. The man your talking about isn't YHWH and he isn't a prophet of YHWH. So what is your point? And for your knowledge, christianity as we know it is a cult born from the false apostle PAUL. Yah'shua (jesus) represents the word of YHWH and that is the only way to salvation which is what Yah'shua literally means. PS nice house.
THE PROBLE IS THIS you think that there are some people who are morally good NOT SO!!!!!! THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS NO NOT ONE!!! no one who understands no one who seeks GOD all have turned away all have become useles NO ONE WHO DOES GOOD NO NOT EVEN ONE if Adam n Eve hid from GOD after one sin how much more us who continually have sinned since we were kids would run YOUR ARGUMENT IS SHALLOW answer back if you DARE
God didn't come in and say "well people are going to rebel, so why bother" same with your fireman, he doesn't say "well he doesnt want to be saved, so why bother" he just saves them anyways. God came and left the OPTION open for everyone to be saved. He is the fireman who says "You can come here and let me save you, or you can die".
@MrIneverusethis did you watch the first part of the video? That god hasn't let the option open for everyone has already been established by this point in the exchange
@IntelligentProbe Obviously he would be fired, and rightfully so, however God (capital "G") is not like this BECAUSE he DOES leave the option open for man to choose whether or not to follow him. All this BS arguing is useless, you either believe in Him and commit to follow his plan for your life, or you don't. It's really quite simple.
@xmasterfunk Actually it does matter, what does exist is poeple who have irrational beliefs and if rational discourse can bring only a few to the side of reason, logic, and critical thinking then it matter quit a bit.
@UponGiantsShoulders i agree i just meant that none of this "should" matter god does this god does that...god dossnt do anything its the fools who use gods name for their benefit. god is a weapon of mass destruction. and if it did exist i guarantee an all forgiving being would send every single being who has ever lived that didn't accept jesus as their savior. but yes i agree with what your saying
"Are you arguing..if every single person found out they were wrong..each and every one of them would proactively deny Jesus anyway..."
Well..there certainly are those who emphatically hate God and worship Lucifer and celebrate going to hell... and ultimately they believe they will defeat Jesus and take over...
Let's imagine that no humans are burning in hell for eternity to be tortured because the KJV of the Bible only mentions eternal torment in Revelation 20:10 in the context of the judgment of the devil (his angels too). Instead humans get the choice of Romans 6:23 through either John 10:10b or Matthew 10:28.
So, human and BMW? which is worth more? From where does one rightly conclude that a human is worth more? If human is worth infinitely more? What would God, supposing He exists, be willing to pay to ransom one human or human kind? It makese sense, that they say Jesus Christ is God's ransom doesn't it? It can't get any dearer than this.
@jouljert I can see BMWs. I can only find mention of Jesus Christ that originates ROUGHLY from the same time period in 1 source. The new testament, a book which is littered with inconsistencies, spotty morality & patently absurd premises. Forgiving even those shortcomings, it has been translated & edited more times than any other written work making it dubious at best. Hell, at least you'd think it would've been originally written in Aramaic, the language Jesus spoke, not Greek. Clear? Really?
Let's take this a step further. Let's say the Firefighter started the fire himself and then put the sleeping children in there himself. Then to keep them from escaping, he seals off all exits but the ones in this one particular room that is not yet on fire. He tells them all the doors but one leads to a fiery death, in front of them is any # of doors and he himself will not tell you which one. What he does do is lay out any # of instruction manuals all insisting that they are true...
If "God" doesn't do it because he feels as if people would rebel anyways then "God" is not doing everything in his power. Doing everything in his power would entail trying and never stopping.
To decide to stop because of a group of people that "don't like him" is giving up.
The truth is that many people have lust to the things, riches and possessions of the world, and have had less or no time for the things of God, no one wants to be bounded by God's law and commandments and they want to leave a care free life.
You are making a flaw here. Just because god disappears does not mean you are free to do whatever you want.
laws and morality are things that have been growing ever since humanity first started to arise. it has changed and is still being changed. However, we still adhere to it. We adhere to these rules because it is better for humanity and ourselves to live by.
Killing people would be not very beneficial for example now would it?
i really enjoy your videos and you are very smart. ive been questioning christianity for awhile now but your intelligence pushed me over the edge. thank you
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Suppose you, a fireman, pull up to a burning orphanage. You rush inside to rescue as many children as possible. One group of kids rushes into your arms and you carry them to safety. Another group flees from you, screaming that they don't want to live, that they love the flames more than safety. You rescue them anyway. The next day, the second group of orphans sets fire to a house and rushes inside to be burned alive. You rescue them again. The cycle repeats until you give them what they want.
Suppose you lived next door to an orphanage and every day a bunch of kids from the orphanage started running around screaming "Fire! Fire! The building is on fire! Someone call the magic fireman!" But you see no flames and smell no smoke.
And when you ask the kids what they are doing yelling fire when there is none they say, "Well its not on fire now, but someday it will be and if no one calls the magic fireman then we're all doomed!"
Religion is like the NFL. Heaven is the Superbowl. We have the Catholics, Baptists, Evangelicals in the NFC West. Taoism, Shintoism, Hinduism in the AFC East. In the NFC Mid East are the Jewish, Muslim sects. They trade players and recruit anyone who would wear their jersey. Everyone thinks theyll win the Superbowl. No one knows who really wins. The atheists act as News reporters and covers the casualty count and claims of who is going to hell. Silly game, Best solution is not to play.
I've seen almost all of your videos, and this and God's Checklist 2.0 are my favourites. The orphan analogy was brilliant and everything else you say almost as intelligent. I highly respect you as a human being and a fellow aitheist. Keep up the good work.
What I want to know, is why that other delusional fuck head keeps replying to you man. I mean... You ended this argument 2 videos ago and yet, he still responds. Look at the video response to this one, the idiot just embarrasses himself by making no valid points. Not only that, for the most part he's just being condescending to you.
HERE'S THEO: God, i demand you tell me you did everything in your power to keep people out of hell.
HERE'S GOD: What did you do to keep yourself out of hell? i gave you a gift. Did you receive it? or did you mock it? If you'd have received it, it would've kept you from hell. Well, did you.
Alright, first of all that wasn't an analogy; try another literary tool. Second, it doesn't matter if Theo believes in God much like it doesn't matter if i don't believe in air (I'm still breathing it). Third of all, you just said he wouldn't believe in him even if he were to speak to him. Uh, have you ever put forth a self-defeating statement? If so, did you recognize when you did it? Wait for it... Wait for it... There it is!
I think you got that right. Bottom line is, it's still stupid.
"Third of all, you just said he wouldn't believe in him even if he were to speak to him." - It is directed towards you and how in your mind you don't believe that TBS would believe in god if he were to speak with him. I'm just explaining why the statement is stupid.
okay, infinit, okay. It's just that this interchange isn't of any interest to me anymore. No offense, I know that sounds arrogant but I'm kinda starting to feel bad for picking on you. I wish you luck in your life ahead. You win, I give up.
Can you not take your fireman analogy one step further?
What if there was this one kid in the orphanage who looked around and couldn't see or feel the fire. What if he was *delusional*, and as a result believed that he was completely right when it came to whether or not the orphanage was on fire.
Do you then refuse to save him from the fire, because he does not believe you are right, and in his eyes for good reason?
That is simply because you are completely closed minded because of this indoctrination. This negates your ability as a cognitive being to look at things rationally and apply logic to what it is you think you know. The worst part about this kind of willful ignorance is that those who are subject to it, like yourself, have no ability to decide for themselves and thereby remain ignorant. All the while you try to excuse your lack of knowledge by hiding behind such a ridiculous idea as "faith".
why is bigd so angry that he can't change your mind? That's all you said, right? --Is: you're... not going to change me. why do you think that made bigd so mad?
All Religous freaks you forget about one simple fact, the UNIVERSE has been in existence for billions of years. Humans beings have dated back more than 300,000 years. RELIGION has only been existance for 12,000 years and it's plagerised from Ancient Egypt which in Africa. THe bible also negelcts to mention the Dinosaurs, Ice Age, the Neandertals. Come on RELIGION is the biggest and most unbelievable claim of BS that we all have witnessed to date.
So what if "God" takes away your freewill? You say that he wanted the Holocaust to happen because it was his will. Other people's wills were taken away in the name of God and you religious people don't seem to care. Quit being so evil and stop Christianity and all other religions/cults.
1: God represents the unknown power behind things, religion measures how much credit you give him. At some point even scientists are stumped when asked the "where did the universe come from" question.
2: Christianity (JUST AN EXAMPLE) has been diluted through the time by centuries of emperors, church corruption, this is what you accept as truth, and in turn accept that the holy word has NOT been changed over time, or that the changes were somehow legitimate.
Its not that scientists are stumped, its just that they dont know yet, and they dont claim to know all the answers. But the bible BACK THEN did claim to have all the answers. But the answeres the bible gives us just leads to more questions instead of answers. Scientists atleast can say they were wrong about something and can re examine where they went wrong. trail and error. or stopping and checking. If you disagree tell me why please.
This guy does not understand that all things in this earth is permanent, God said that mans life
is full bad luck and sorrow, in this earth he test us of what we accomplish in our life by being good to our sorroundings, like for example if buy an expensive item- we should hardly work it out by our jobs inorder to buy this item, yes there are many horroble memories on this earth, but someday will all die like anyone else, we think ourselves that this earth is permanent like a human life
I don't know if you've noticed, but "faith" is the main ingredient for most religions in the world. Therefore, your reason for belief in Jesus is no more unique than reasons for believing in Zeus.
It seems like you're the one in need of calming down because no one's questioning whether you have the right to believe whatever nonsensical belief you'd like. If you're not ready to have your religious views challenged then keep them to yourself.
How can you challenge a religious belief that cannot be proven. I'm not angry, you're the angry one atheists love look down upon Christians like we're all idiots for believing in what we believe in. I don't look down upon atheists for being atheists and I don't try to challenge that belief, I just choose to believe in what I believe in.
You make a truth claim (i.e. "Jesus is the True and Living God! "), then when challenged about it you play the hurt feelings card. Simply put, faith is no more of a logical reason for irrational belief than accepting 2+2=5 on faith. All Christians aren't idiots, but most of their religious beliefs are!
I'm not playing the hurt feelings card because honestly I could care less. But to ME Jesus is the True and Living God. That's my opinion too bad so sad. Faith is my logical reason simply because there is no proof for my belief. Thank you very much. Please don't respond because this is going no where. Good day, sir.
Well, consider this a non-response. I find it interesting when Christians Bible-thump on channels hosted by atheists, then when challenged about their statements they play the faith card as though by simply saying "I believe it because I have faith" (circular) makes any of their erroneous religious statements immune to criticism. This is the reason why we need mandatory Logic classes in schools.
"Jesus is the True and Living God" isn't Bible thumping? How about you take your own advice since you're the one who began Bible thumping and continue to try and defend your nonfactual statements.
"Jesus is the TRUE and LIVING God" is a truth claim (hint: the words "true" and "living" are statements of fact). Also, you know nothing about my beliefs to judge it's level of factualness and even if you did it would be unrelated to anything you've said. And once and for all, do yourself a favor and abandon that "get over it" line because it doesn't seem to be scoring you points. Everytime you reply with a new nonsensical defense you're proving that you, in fact, have not gotten over it.
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Those who currently control us also created us. Can you not get that extremely simple concept through your thick skull? Religion (with its gods) and science (with its theory of evolution) have poisoned your mind so much that you are now unable to see the obvious
Look, I'll do U a favor, ok? I'll prove Evolution 2 u, if U prove your god exists!! How's that?
Ok, yes I was kidding, we both know U cant prove god is real bcuz there's no evidence 4 that. Soooo, I'll still prove Evolution is real!! That way, you'll know Adam & Eve is a BS story. I'll also show U how science has proven that the world flood "did not" happen!! That way U can choose to be free of the dogma!! No longer live under the fear of a cruel god!
I am shocked this guy would not turn a fundie into an atheist with this video. I don't know what Socratic Truth said as they have 7 thumbs down, must have been something pretty stupid. I too love the BMW analogy, actually got a funny story about an Audi being sold for 10 bucks but thats completely different story.
I spoke truth and of course they downed...hey dont tell me or other people what not to believe in tell them WHAT To believe in since christianity so false..lol
I cant prove to you that my god exist Im an agnostic diest..LMAO...i just attack anybody who claim absolute sureity(if that is not a word it should) on what they believe...atheist christian muslims and satanist.....and god really isnt that cruel if he did create this he can do what ever he wants...
Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?
Christians need to realized that God cannot be an omnipotent, loving, and merciful father and allow so much suffering in our world or condemn us to eternal hell.
Here's a question I always had while growing up in church... If God is all the omni-stuff (in this case omnipresent), then HOW could Hell exists since its taught to be place where God does not exist- if you're in hell, you're outside the presence of God. Just another contradiction...
It's not about whether or not people would choose God if they know 100% Jesus Christ is God, it's about whether or not our free will to do so would be threatened out of the fear of God. I have a lot of the same reasoning and philosophical questions you posed. However, I also know what it feels like when your life is poised to end and your in the dark of the tunnel questioning what's on the other side. Knowing how helpless we truly are without God builds faith. Christ is a personal choice.
"...it's about whether or not our free will to do so would be threatened out of the fear of God."
I see, so knowing God is real destroys our free will. Therefore, God showing himself to be real to anyone is taking away their free will. His threats and demands that people fear him in the OT were violating people's free will.
Honestly, do you actually believe your own nonsense? Clearly, knowledge of God doesn't violate our free will, OR God has violated free will in the past.
Hooya2, thanks for questioning your beliefs. It is always good talk to somebody who is willing to consider and discuss what they think. There is a distinct difference between the events of the OT and the NT. The covenant of the OT is based on the law (God's orders) and when the phrophecy was fulfilled in the NT the covenant became based on faith/grace. Jesus Christ said, "Because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29
Hooya: Let's cut to the chase. The "good" nature of God is somethn I often struggle with myself. Hwvr, I think God's nature is often taken out of context and incorrectly portrayed. I think the Bible makes it clear that we're here to serve God & please Him (not the other way arnd). God is good bc he created us in the first place, God is good bc he sent his Son to redeem us, & God is good bc he offers us an eternity with Him. Not bc He prevents bad things from happening nor bc the world is fair.
"God is good bc he created us in the first place, God is good bc he sent his Son to redeem us, & God is good bc he offers us an eternity with Him. Not bc He prevents bad things from happening nor bc the world is fair."
In other words, he's good for doing good things, but he's not bad for doing bad things.
The bad things that happen in the world aren't God's doing but a direct result of the Fall of Man. Why doesn't God intervene and stop the bad things from happening if He really loves us? I believe he allows them to happen so that we may know to appreciate the good. His intervention with Christ is proof that he loves us. And let me leave you with this thought: "God doesn't do good things. Things are good because God does them."
"The bad things that happen in the world aren't God's doing but a direct result of the Fall of Man."
Uh no, read your Bible. It wasn't man's sin that caused suffering to enter the world, it was the curse God laid on us afterwards. Eating the fruit didn't hurt anyone; God's retaliation did.
"I believe he allows them to happen so that we may know to appreciate the good."
Except being omnipotent means that he doesn't have to make us suffer to teach us things.
"What you're saying is comparable to cheating on your wife than hating her for divorcing you."
What I'm saying is comparable to leaving the seat up on the toilet and having my wife cast a curse on me and all of my children so that they must live in a world far worse than the one we lived in, and then after death will spend eternity burning in agony, until 4,000 years later when she 'graciously' decides to allow me to beg forgiveness after I nail one of her own children to the wall.
The bottom line is that you're not God.. & I'm not God. God is the great I AM. Regardless of your perception of His ways, things are what they are. The truths of the Bible are self evident & I have no need to convince you as you obviously read it. As far as being angry and blaming God.. the only one you end up hating is yourself. I don't understand all His ways, but I have more faith that His truths are real than I do in anything else. If we don't live for Him we waste our time on idols.
"The truths of the Bible are self evident & I have no need to convince you as you obviously read it."
Yes I have already read it, and its truth is in no way 'self-evident'. To be honest, the book reminds me of "How the leopard got his spots". It's clearly just a collection of absurd fables, mingled with some wildly exaggerated history.
There are a couple claims that your explanation starts out with that I believe flawed: "God does everything in his power to prevent people from going to hell." I think that'd be better stated as: "Christ did everything in his power to give us the ability to be saved." His death on the cross made salvation possible. Now it's up to us, to use our free will (which he has maintained the integrity of) to choose the life he has laid out before us.
You should be an actor!!!! and...great analogy of the kid in the burning building!
skunksnag 2 weeks ago
You have the best video endings dude.
dj69918 2 months ago
Ill never submit to the things you've said god! Great arguments I like you.
diewont 2 months ago
I love the last point u made! Of coz im not selling the BMW cuz im still pretty sane! (Put the situation in reverse... u don't want to sell the BMW either)
AkasakaS2000 2 months ago
I am so happy I agree with him. He just obliterates everyone who tries to debate him.
vVPrototypeVv 4 months ago
If you say person A has raped a hundred children and he deserves to be castrated w/o anesthetic, hey I'm with you. God has allowed me that understanding. Eternal damnation is a different story. The best evidence that god has not done all he could is that he's provided no one with a visceral understanding of why such an unimaginably harsh punishment is necessary. For being BORN guilty??? Only a misanthropic psychopath could have the understanding to which I refer.
dymchurch1 5 months ago
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Lets make this simple. If you believe in God, and his son, and live a righteous life, you will be saved. If you refuse to believe and do what you want you will not be saved, God is merciful, and yet you spread this crap all over youtube. Being "good" won't get you into heaven.
smurfboywv 7 months ago
Even if the christian god does exists (unlikely), I would still vehemently reject him. I can't and won't love anyone who tells me that he (or she) loves me, then commands me to love him, bow down and worship him, and to acknowledge him as my lord and master, followed by the threat of hell if I don't and the bribe of riches in heaven if I do. If christians are okay with dominate/submissive and master/slave relationships, that's their choice.
ev0lv3n0w 7 months ago
All this only applies if this god actually existed.
TheDano1947 8 months ago
The idea that some would rebel also brings something else up. What about all those other religions? Their followers tend to be devout. They go to temple as often as they should, they pray, tithe, and bow to their creator. Their creator is not yours, so no matter how zealous they are, they will never be saved. How could an all loving creator watch this, and simply ignore them?
skywize 8 months ago
I don't know... sounds like Intrepidman doesn't understand a whole lot about Scripture by listening to what you're arguing against. That being said... if the Son divested Himself of His former glory to come down here as a Man, and then the Father allowed Him to be murdered to pay for our sins, it sounds like They sacrificed a lot more than a Beamer or a 100 bucks.... Wouldn't you agree?
Thistlesifter220 9 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 Let's say what they sacrificed was indeed a lot more than a beamer or $100. Let's say its value was equal to that of all of the universe's wealth and resources, including human resources. In fact, let's say its value was equal to that of everything created. It doesn't matter where you draw the line, stopping at any point short of accomplishing the ultimate goal perfectly and instantly is using roughly 0% of God's power. Watch the last 2 minutes again.
thewrittenWerd 7 months ago
@thewrittenWerd Instant results doesn't work when it comes to human experience. Humans, especially those of us here in this 21st century, Western culture, want instant gratification, an instant way out of trouble we get into, instant wealth, etc.... The Ultimate Goal is in the process of being accomplished, but it is going to be done God's Way and in His time, not mine, not yours. And how much of His power He is using to do this, I do not know. The problem is, our idea of perfection is flawed.
Thistlesifter220 7 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 Well, the longer he waits, the more people suffer. If we are to believe that his ultimate goal is our happiness, waiting seems really counter-productive, when he has the power to end suffering instantly. Give a sufficient reason why he should allow this. Simply saying that we can't understand or are unaware of his reasons doesn't give anyone a reason to believe in God, it just means we either dismiss him based on a lack of evidence, or we suspend judgement.
thewrittenWerd 7 months ago
@thewrittenWerd "Wisdom is justified by her children"
A sufficient reason? We have no choice but to allow it; it is what it is. God has no choice but to wait because man has readily rejected Him from the beginning. How can He save someone who is forever running away from Him, or shaking their fist at Him? God desires a relationship with us, but we reject Him and get mad at Him when bad stuff happens, and then we claim He isn't real.
"When the student is ready the master appears".
Thistlesifter220 7 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 Don't start the story in the middle. Humans did not have to be inherently sinful, God made it so. The people only run away because God has given them no reason to believe he exists. Who's fault is this? God knew the outcome of all of this before he even began making arrangements for something beside himself to exist, and he still made the same decisions and created this universe this way, knowing the monstrosities that would occur.
thewrittenWerd 7 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 Please read my post concerning free will, which I began with "One final post."
thewrittenWerd 7 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 Now personally, I don't think this is even a strong argument against God. A much stronger and extremely simple argument is pointing out that God's version of justice involves punishing individuals for crimes they did not commit. Scott (TBS) touches on this in his God's Checklist video. Why would such a loving God create such a system? The sacrifice of Jesus would never have been necessary if God had only decided to punish humans based on individual merit.
thewrittenWerd 7 months ago
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@thewrittenWerd All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Thistlesifter220 7 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 See, the problem with that is, you start the story in the middle, as if all humans had to be sinful, which is simply not the case. As I go on to say later in my posts, God could have easily decided to punish humans based on their individual merit, or to put it differently, punish or reward them based on whether or not they actually sin and fall short, rather than making them sinful, and dooming them to always sin and fall short of the glory of God. What kind of hero is that?
thewrittenWerd 7 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 Given that, how irresponsible does God's decision to punish man kind based on the sins of Adam and Eve seem? It not only causes us to suffer unnecessarily, it required Jesus to die a horrible death.
If God's plan is supposed to be perfect, and I have the correct understanding of the word perfect, God's plan should be so good that no other plan could better serve the same purpose. Why is it so easy for us to conceive a better plan? One with minimal suffering is a start.
thewrittenWerd 7 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 Let me make a short analogy. If God were a firefighter, and you and I were stuck in a building on fire, would you say that a plan involving any waiting period before a rescue attempt was made was the best plan possible, given that this firefighter had perfect firefighting knowledge, skills and resources? This would mean that the attempt would succeed, guaranteed, no doubt in the world. Why wait, when every second, lives are being lost?
thewrittenWerd 7 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 One final post. If the reason for suffering is to be explained through free will and God's desire to have humans be responsible moral agents, rather than robots, why in on earth did he make it such that we would have no choice in being sinful? That seems to me to be removing the option of mankind to serve God in perfection, which, if I understand correctly, is how he wanted to be served in the first place. Why did he choose to have his heart broken so many times over?
thewrittenWerd 7 months ago
@thewrittenWerd The purpose of free will and overcoming our sinful nature is that we must consciously make an effort to do what is right in the choices we make. Why? Because God is building a family, and man's completion will be when man, himself, becomes God. Therefore God must know that He can trust us before He takes us to that stage/level of reality, because it comes with power enough to create suns, universes and life... He will not have another rebel, especially one with His power.
Thistlesifter220 7 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 I wasn't arguing about the purpose of free will. I was arguing about the explanation for suffering, which Christians often claim is free will, along with God's desire for humans to be responsible moral agents. This is the exact defense that Christian scholars such as William Lane Craig use. The problem with the stance that suffering is necessary for free will to exist is that it only explains a small portion of suffering.
To be continued...
thewrittenWerd 7 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 Continuing: The free will defense only explains the reason for suffering as a result of rebellion against God. It does not explain why all humans must inherit sin, thus removing their ability to please their creator by serving him in perfection. If anything, God making his arrangement such that we inherit sin shows a grand infraction of our free will. He has removed the option of perfection until he decides to give it back, but this contradicts his goal, so it seems.
thewrittenWerd 7 months ago
@thewrittenWerd What is sin? Is sin the only thing we have to overcome? You missed the point - God is building a family. Us worshiping Him is for our benefit, not His ego. The whole thrust of sin is independence... we think we can be truly successful doing things 'our way'. But again, what is God's definition of sin? We can overcome sin, with God's help, but again this takes a real relationship with Him. Thus Christ instructed us to call Him, Father... God is building a family of those willing.
Thistlesifter220 7 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 If you read what I'm saying, I'm not calling for independence. The entire situation is a result of God putting all humans in the same basket and marking it spoiled. We didn't even get the chance to decide whether we wanted to follow God or not. He made the decision for us, and he made the wrong one. This alone is enough to dismiss the concept of God, as we know it, as his very existence would necessarily mean that he is imperfect, given the current state of humanity.
thewrittenWerd 7 months ago
@thewrittenWerd Again, our concept of perfection is imperfect and not the same as God's, whose is perfect. Wisdom is justified by her children.... It's not that you are calling for independence, it's that THAT is man's natural proclivity, which is the cause for the separation between God and man. You have a chance to decide every minute of every day - your choices lead you to your conclusions. He did not make the decision for us - He merely gave us the choices to make....
Thistlesifter220 7 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 He did make the decision for us, insofar as he decided that all humans born after Adam and Eve would inherit sin, rather than keeping or losing perfection based on their own decisions. Each of us are born with sin, whether we want it or not, so yes, Thistle, God did make the choice for us.
thewrittenWerd 7 months ago
@thewrittenWerd No, that's not correct... what we suffer is a direct result of Adam and Eve's disobedience. Moreover, we can choose to not sin... but again, what is sin? Can you define it?
Thistlesifter220 7 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 "what we suffer is a direct result of Adam and Eve's disobedience." That's the point. It's not "our" (as in any human excluding Adam and Eve) choice. God made the arrangement so that sin is inherited. Adam and Eve's choices should have no impact on us. We should have been born into perfection, then either maintained that state, or lost it, depending on whether or not we obeyed God. Now, obviously, either this is not what God wanted, or God doesn't exist.
thewrittenWerd 7 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 Let's say you have a boss and a very terrible coworker. One day, he calls you and this coworker into his office, and explain to you that the next time this coworker messes up, you're both fired. You have absolutely nothing to do with his actions, but you receive punishment anyway. This is the real problem. To add to this, you are a good worker, and it is in your boss's best interest to keep you on the job. Why in the world would the boss make this arrangement?
thewrittenWerd 7 months ago
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@thewrittenWerd That is an invalid analogy, because in this scenario neither worker can be truly good. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. What is this sin that we all have done? You have yet to answer my question: what is sin? Can you define it?
Thistlesifter220 7 months ago
@thewrittenWerd Uh oh... we must be stealing Scotty's glory.... he deweted my posty.... LOL.... it'll all work out in the wash...
Peace....
Thistlesifter220 7 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 I mean, certainly you would agree that it is God's goal that we serve him in total perfection in paradise. Let's say that I had the intention of giving you a shiny new gold watch. If, shortly after giving it to you, your father stole some of my cupcakes that I made for myself and my family, which I had told him not to take, and you openly and honestly agreed that he was in the wrong, should I take the gold watch back? In what sense would that action be just?
thewrittenWerd 7 months ago
you are a genius guy
zalvana 10 months ago
You hit the nail on the head there with this one! Excellent stuff! :-)
summersun2828 11 months ago
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religions are a BUSINESS-they would NOT exist if they couldnt make money off PIMPING WOMENS BODIES into marriage and fathers rights- richest pimps on earth-thats why they ATTACK and murder massage parlor owners and women who have their OWN sex business BUT DONT GIVE A CUT TO THE PRIESTS- all PURELY BUSINESS and squashing the COMPETITION- name me ONE religion which DOESNT rely on MARRIAGE-marital sex-slavery business- even gov define religious leader as "a person qualified to perform marriages"
lmollot 11 months ago
Hell is a tool used to scare people stupid. Literally. People are so afraid of hell, they are acting stupid.The Bible says God is unchanging, but even within the context of the Bible, He is inconsistent at best The fact that there are so many sects of Christianity that interpret God completely differently is proof that he hasn't made Himself known to us, thus providing us with a means of salvation. Christians don't even agree on what God is exactly.
Arteia 1 year ago
What a bunch of hooey ... a "lake of fire"! Two thirds of the world's population is not Christian and does not believe in Jesus Christ as God and Savior. So do Christian apologists believe that they are all going to "hell"? ... which, by the way, is a fantacy. And what about this dude called the "devil"? Does he really want all of them in this fictional "hell"? And WHY would he if they're all just burning and screaming. We're to believe the "devil" is just a sadist? What a load of crap!!
justanote7 1 year ago
You can argue all you want with men but you can't argue with the scriptures. The man your talking about isn't YHWH and he isn't a prophet of YHWH. So what is your point? And for your knowledge, christianity as we know it is a cult born from the false apostle PAUL. Yah'shua (jesus) represents the word of YHWH and that is the only way to salvation which is what Yah'shua literally means. PS nice house.
deathknight228 1 year ago
I wish the pope would just sit down one day and watch your videos one after the other...
thafrenchman 1 year ago
holy s**t that is one hot atheist lol
seasmia 1 year ago
THE PROBLE IS THIS you think that there are some people who are morally good NOT SO!!!!!! THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS NO NOT ONE!!! no one who understands no one who seeks GOD all have turned away all have become useles NO ONE WHO DOES GOOD NO NOT EVEN ONE if Adam n Eve hid from GOD after one sin how much more us who continually have sinned since we were kids would run YOUR ARGUMENT IS SHALLOW answer back if you DARE
patriotsfan137 1 year ago
God always loses this 1 when we consider that HE created Satan.....argument over!
julzabro 1 year ago
God didn't come in and say "well people are going to rebel, so why bother" same with your fireman, he doesn't say "well he doesnt want to be saved, so why bother" he just saves them anyways. God came and left the OPTION open for everyone to be saved. He is the fireman who says "You can come here and let me save you, or you can die".
MrIneverusethis 1 year ago
@MrIneverusethis did you watch the first part of the video? That god hasn't let the option open for everyone has already been established by this point in the exchange
thafrenchman 1 year ago
@MrIneverusethis such a fireman would be fired. Firemen go in to save, not to leave the option open to be saved.
IntelligentProbe 1 year ago
@IntelligentProbe Obviously he would be fired, and rightfully so, however God (capital "G") is not like this BECAUSE he DOES leave the option open for man to choose whether or not to follow him. All this BS arguing is useless, you either believe in Him and commit to follow his plan for your life, or you don't. It's really quite simple.
MrIneverusethis 1 year ago
Great video, great.
Ulfvaldr2012 1 year ago
Gnosticism yo.
Jcolinsol 1 year ago
This is a great discussion!!!
AtheistKiwi 1 year ago
I <3 the 0% analogy. Epic.
Horathgar42 1 year ago
god isnt real none of this shit matters
xmasterfunk 1 year ago
@xmasterfunk Actually it does matter, what does exist is poeple who have irrational beliefs and if rational discourse can bring only a few to the side of reason, logic, and critical thinking then it matter quit a bit.
UponGiantsShoulders 1 year ago
@UponGiantsShoulders i agree i just meant that none of this "should" matter god does this god does that...god dossnt do anything its the fools who use gods name for their benefit. god is a weapon of mass destruction. and if it did exist i guarantee an all forgiving being would send every single being who has ever lived that didn't accept jesus as their savior. but yes i agree with what your saying
xmasterfunk 1 year ago
@UponGiantsShoulders wouldnt* send....
xmasterfunk 1 year ago
"Are you arguing..if every single person found out they were wrong..each and every one of them would proactively deny Jesus anyway..."
Well..there certainly are those who emphatically hate God and worship Lucifer and celebrate going to hell... and ultimately they believe they will defeat Jesus and take over...
Stebango 1 year ago
If God was proven real, both christians and atheists alike would scream: "HOLY SHIT HE'S REAL?!!?!?!?!"
MedievalWerewolf 1 year ago 2
We wanted to be Gods in charge of our own world.
And so...here we are...!
So, a bunch of MORONS write a bunch of stories saying that it came straight from God.
And then even BIGGER Morons blindly follow the collected stories of these PEOPLE.
Is it's GOD"S fault that they brought their own emotional baggage along for the ride?
Don't blame HIM for the bullshit these poor misguided people have created.
This is what we wanted...he GAVE US what we wanted!
We're in charge...and it's CHAOS!
forrykid 1 year ago
Let's imagine that no humans are burning in hell for eternity to be tortured because the KJV of the Bible only mentions eternal torment in Revelation 20:10 in the context of the judgment of the devil (his angels too). Instead humans get the choice of Romans 6:23 through either John 10:10b or Matthew 10:28.
ReligionOfSacrifice 1 year ago
go suck a cock or get beat up already.....
modestoca25 1 year ago
Please keep up the good work. Cutting through the theoretical bullshit is something you do so well, Christians would call it a gift from god.....hehe
Futureplanet 1 year ago 4
So, human and BMW? which is worth more? From where does one rightly conclude that a human is worth more? If human is worth infinitely more? What would God, supposing He exists, be willing to pay to ransom one human or human kind? It makese sense, that they say Jesus Christ is God's ransom doesn't it? It can't get any dearer than this.
jouljert 1 year ago
@jouljert I can see BMWs. I can only find mention of Jesus Christ that originates ROUGHLY from the same time period in 1 source. The new testament, a book which is littered with inconsistencies, spotty morality & patently absurd premises. Forgiving even those shortcomings, it has been translated & edited more times than any other written work making it dubious at best. Hell, at least you'd think it would've been originally written in Aramaic, the language Jesus spoke, not Greek. Clear? Really?
eyeammi 1 year ago 2
Great, absolutely great ending! Bravo!
Torrance178 1 year ago 2
I also like using the "Stranger w/ Candy" analogy.
capitalAtheist 1 year ago
Let's take this a step further. Let's say the Firefighter started the fire himself and then put the sleeping children in there himself. Then to keep them from escaping, he seals off all exits but the ones in this one particular room that is not yet on fire. He tells them all the doors but one leads to a fiery death, in front of them is any # of doors and he himself will not tell you which one. What he does do is lay out any # of instruction manuals all insisting that they are true...
capitalAtheist 1 year ago 8
@capitalAtheist A fairly good analogy of the christians delusional beliefs.
humanistheart 1 year ago
It's clear that his little smirk at the end signifies a checkmate.
318197 1 year ago 3
lol 4:36
boorens18 1 year ago
If "God" doesn't do it because he feels as if people would rebel anyways then "God" is not doing everything in his power. Doing everything in his power would entail trying and never stopping.
To decide to stop because of a group of people that "don't like him" is giving up.
mandiemarie6918 2 years ago
The truth is that many people have lust to the things, riches and possessions of the world, and have had less or no time for the things of God, no one wants to be bounded by God's law and commandments and they want to leave a care free life.
theaccousticaddict 2 years ago
You are making a flaw here. Just because god disappears does not mean you are free to do whatever you want.
laws and morality are things that have been growing ever since humanity first started to arise. it has changed and is still being changed. However, we still adhere to it. We adhere to these rules because it is better for humanity and ourselves to live by.
Killing people would be not very beneficial for example now would it?
NathanWubs 2 years ago
wow.
MsExoticBliss 2 years ago
You sir, are a cocky a**. And have every right to be!
mlozano322 2 years ago
lol
TheEarthAbides 2 years ago
i really enjoy your videos and you are very smart. ive been questioning christianity for awhile now but your intelligence pushed me over the edge. thank you
searchingforanswers3 2 years ago 4
You've been saved, this time for real.
brajamtho757 1 year ago
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Suppose you, a fireman, pull up to a burning orphanage. You rush inside to rescue as many children as possible. One group of kids rushes into your arms and you carry them to safety. Another group flees from you, screaming that they don't want to live, that they love the flames more than safety. You rescue them anyway. The next day, the second group of orphans sets fire to a house and rushes inside to be burned alive. You rescue them again. The cycle repeats until you give them what they want.
shotinthedark90 2 years ago
Suppose you lived next door to an orphanage and every day a bunch of kids from the orphanage started running around screaming "Fire! Fire! The building is on fire! Someone call the magic fireman!" But you see no flames and smell no smoke.
And when you ask the kids what they are doing yelling fire when there is none they say, "Well its not on fire now, but someday it will be and if no one calls the magic fireman then we're all doomed!"
Would you take these kids seriously?
tiggster13 1 year ago 3
Fantastic close!
ajohn1511 2 years ago 5
Hahaha, that was an amazing sign-off man!
Love your videos dude, I watch them all. Thanks again!
drtazzle 2 years ago 13
Religion is like the NFL. Heaven is the Superbowl. We have the Catholics, Baptists, Evangelicals in the NFC West. Taoism, Shintoism, Hinduism in the AFC East. In the NFC Mid East are the Jewish, Muslim sects. They trade players and recruit anyone who would wear their jersey. Everyone thinks theyll win the Superbowl. No one knows who really wins. The atheists act as News reporters and covers the casualty count and claims of who is going to hell. Silly game, Best solution is not to play.
phantango 2 years ago 5
I wish I was as articulate as you in debates, Scott. Amazing vid.
ricekristii 2 years ago 36
@ricekristii you likely could be if you wrote your thoughts down and take time to think about it like he does.
robertwc82 1 year ago
@ricekristii what.....?
ugasziz 10 months ago
I'm not trying to be a dick, but does intrepidman have a skin condition, or is it just the horrible resolution of his camera?
bronx43 2 years ago
i actually thought that too, but i think its just the quality of his videos
gertibitchin 2 years ago
I've seen almost all of your videos, and this and God's Checklist 2.0 are my favourites. The orphan analogy was brilliant and everything else you say almost as intelligent. I highly respect you as a human being and a fellow aitheist. Keep up the good work.
ThePurpleTiara 2 years ago 3
What I want to know, is why that other delusional fuck head keeps replying to you man. I mean... You ended this argument 2 videos ago and yet, he still responds. Look at the video response to this one, the idiot just embarrasses himself by making no valid points. Not only that, for the most part he's just being condescending to you.
How do you keep your cool in these videos, bro?
Keep it up man, your work is great.
TheTwoShow 2 years ago 3
:))
ptica11 2 years ago
If God were real, what do you think he would respect more;
"Dishonest Belief"...or "Honest Disbelief?"
Cootabux 2 years ago 2
Man, this was a great video bcuz of the great analogy U used. Awesome!
And the BMW analogy....Ha! Your opponent blew himself out of the water with it!
Of course, your orphan analogy was what I was referring to as the best, and one I hadn't seen used before. It made the point so nicely.
great job...gotta see more!!
Cootabux 2 years ago
that orphan analogy was the best analogy ever.
TheMoFauxs 2 years ago
I love it.
thegood1sweretaken 2 years ago
Fantastic video TB. "God uses 0% of his resources..." Beautiful logic.
brajamtho757 2 years ago 3
This guys awesome. Im glad I subscribed. Id say hes better than the big bad TheAmazingathiest.
bananabread119 2 years ago 5
Very well put.
Muskett333 2 years ago 3
By saying God wouldn't bother basically concedes your first point.
anwyll 2 years ago
If Hume is Mozart, you're Bob Dylan: bringing the good old music of reason back to the people once again!
(if that makes sense, it sounded good in my head^^)
Zigiwy 2 years ago
F-ing brillllllllllllllliant! Cheers.
mtsac1 2 years ago 4
owned
darkrift2100 2 years ago
I love how you ended it
TUEZ440 2 years ago 2
HERE'S THEO: God, i demand you tell me you did everything in your power to keep people out of hell.
HERE'S GOD: What did you do to keep yourself out of hell? i gave you a gift. Did you receive it? or did you mock it? If you'd have received it, it would've kept you from hell. Well, did you.
THEO: You don't exist.
GOD: (sadly shakes head)
matthound 3 years ago
What a stupid analogy. You would think that TBS would believe (even know) god if he were to actually speak with him.
infinit888 3 years ago
Alright, first of all that wasn't an analogy; try another literary tool. Second, it doesn't matter if Theo believes in God much like it doesn't matter if i don't believe in air (I'm still breathing it). Third of all, you just said he wouldn't believe in him even if he were to speak to him. Uh, have you ever put forth a self-defeating statement? If so, did you recognize when you did it? Wait for it... Wait for it... There it is!
matthound 3 years ago
"Alright, first of all that wasn't an analogy"
I think you got that right. Bottom line is, it's still stupid.
"Third of all, you just said he wouldn't believe in him even if he were to speak to him." - It is directed towards you and how in your mind you don't believe that TBS would believe in god if he were to speak with him. I'm just explaining why the statement is stupid.
infinit888 2 years ago
dude, you're a trip. Okay buddy, lets just agree to disagree. I didn't mean to get sand in your vag.
matthound 2 years ago
"Okay buddy, lets just agree to disagree." - And what exactly would we be disagreeing on?
"I didn't mean to get sand in your vag." - I'm sorry but for that to happen shouldn't you have sex on the beach in the first place.
infinit888 2 years ago
okay, infinit, okay. It's just that this interchange isn't of any interest to me anymore. No offense, I know that sounds arrogant but I'm kinda starting to feel bad for picking on you. I wish you luck in your life ahead. You win, I give up.
matthound 2 years ago
Can you not take your fireman analogy one step further?
What if there was this one kid in the orphanage who looked around and couldn't see or feel the fire. What if he was *delusional*, and as a result believed that he was completely right when it came to whether or not the orphanage was on fire.
Do you then refuse to save him from the fire, because he does not believe you are right, and in his eyes for good reason?
Afterthoughtbtw 3 years ago
I understand You don't believe in god but i do nothing you say is going to change me
BornCriminal1987 3 years ago
That is simply because you are completely closed minded because of this indoctrination. This negates your ability as a cognitive being to look at things rationally and apply logic to what it is you think you know. The worst part about this kind of willful ignorance is that those who are subject to it, like yourself, have no ability to decide for themselves and thereby remain ignorant. All the while you try to excuse your lack of knowledge by hiding behind such a ridiculous idea as "faith".
Bigd6786 3 years ago
why is bigd so angry that he can't change your mind? That's all you said, right? --Is: you're... not going to change me. why do you think that made bigd so mad?
matthound 3 years ago
All Religous freaks you forget about one simple fact, the UNIVERSE has been in existence for billions of years. Humans beings have dated back more than 300,000 years. RELIGION has only been existance for 12,000 years and it's plagerised from Ancient Egypt which in Africa. THe bible also negelcts to mention the Dinosaurs, Ice Age, the Neandertals. Come on RELIGION is the biggest and most unbelievable claim of BS that we all have witnessed to date.
kaiyeem 3 years ago 2
So what if "God" takes away your freewill? You say that he wanted the Holocaust to happen because it was his will. Other people's wills were taken away in the name of God and you religious people don't seem to care. Quit being so evil and stop Christianity and all other religions/cults.
dpsadin 3 years ago
god isn't a fireman
Nayamaus 3 years ago
johnlewisbrooks... I say "There's NO PROOF of a God!!!"
And you answer "then stop breathing"
Makes a lot of sense... moron.
screech519 3 years ago
joker
Cabanas751Dunhill 3 years ago
My opinion, agree with me if you may:
1: God represents the unknown power behind things, religion measures how much credit you give him. At some point even scientists are stumped when asked the "where did the universe come from" question.
2: Christianity (JUST AN EXAMPLE) has been diluted through the time by centuries of emperors, church corruption, this is what you accept as truth, and in turn accept that the holy word has NOT been changed over time, or that the changes were somehow legitimate.
JoesephKatana 3 years ago
Its not that scientists are stumped, its just that they dont know yet, and they dont claim to know all the answers. But the bible BACK THEN did claim to have all the answers. But the answeres the bible gives us just leads to more questions instead of answers. Scientists atleast can say they were wrong about something and can re examine where they went wrong. trail and error. or stopping and checking. If you disagree tell me why please.
AWAKENxEXMORTIS 3 years ago
This guy does not understand that all things in this earth is permanent, God said that mans life
is full bad luck and sorrow, in this earth he test us of what we accomplish in our life by being good to our sorroundings, like for example if buy an expensive item- we should hardly work it out by our jobs inorder to buy this item, yes there are many horroble memories on this earth, but someday will all die like anyone else, we think ourselves that this earth is permanent like a human life
atheistsucks 3 years ago
Atheistsucks you lost all respect when you started with "God said that.."
Try again.
Killer0fTheSun 3 years ago
There's no proof of God, there's also nothing to disprove God. But one must live by faith and not by sight. Jesus is the True and Living God!
stoptalkinsmack 3 years ago
May the Flying Spaghetti Monster have mercy on your soul.
Zuul030 3 years ago 2
exactly
clownycloud1 3 years ago
I don't know if you've noticed, but "faith" is the main ingredient for most religions in the world. Therefore, your reason for belief in Jesus is no more unique than reasons for believing in Zeus.
DIRTYDUNNZ 2 years ago 2
I never said there was anything unique about my belief in Jesus. I just believe in what I believe in....get over it.
stoptalkinsmack 2 years ago
It seems like you're the one in need of calming down because no one's questioning whether you have the right to believe whatever nonsensical belief you'd like. If you're not ready to have your religious views challenged then keep them to yourself.
DIRTYDUNNZ 2 years ago
How can you challenge a religious belief that cannot be proven. I'm not angry, you're the angry one atheists love look down upon Christians like we're all idiots for believing in what we believe in. I don't look down upon atheists for being atheists and I don't try to challenge that belief, I just choose to believe in what I believe in.
stoptalkinsmack 2 years ago
You make a truth claim (i.e. "Jesus is the True and Living God! "), then when challenged about it you play the hurt feelings card. Simply put, faith is no more of a logical reason for irrational belief than accepting 2+2=5 on faith. All Christians aren't idiots, but most of their religious beliefs are!
DIRTYDUNNZ 2 years ago 4
I'm not playing the hurt feelings card because honestly I could care less. But to ME Jesus is the True and Living God. That's my opinion too bad so sad. Faith is my logical reason simply because there is no proof for my belief. Thank you very much. Please don't respond because this is going no where. Good day, sir.
stoptalkinsmack 2 years ago
Well, consider this a non-response. I find it interesting when Christians Bible-thump on channels hosted by atheists, then when challenged about their statements they play the faith card as though by simply saying "I believe it because I have faith" (circular) makes any of their erroneous religious statements immune to criticism. This is the reason why we need mandatory Logic classes in schools.
DIRTYDUNNZ 2 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
First of all I didnt Bible thump at all. The only thing I said was "God cannot be proven or disproven" that was it...GET OVER IT!
stoptalkinsmack 2 years ago
"Jesus is the True and Living God" isn't Bible thumping? How about you take your own advice since you're the one who began Bible thumping and continue to try and defend your nonfactual statements.
DIRTYDUNNZ 2 years ago 17
This comment has received too many negative votes show
That's not Bible thumping it's stating my opinion. You'r beliefs aren't factual either. Like I said...GET THE HELL OVER IT!
stoptalkinsmack 2 years ago
"Jesus is the TRUE and LIVING God" is a truth claim (hint: the words "true" and "living" are statements of fact). Also, you know nothing about my beliefs to judge it's level of factualness and even if you did it would be unrelated to anything you've said. And once and for all, do yourself a favor and abandon that "get over it" line because it doesn't seem to be scoring you points. Everytime you reply with a new nonsensical defense you're proving that you, in fact, have not gotten over it.
DIRTYDUNNZ 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Basically I really don't care what you think. Please leave me alone. Thank you, good day, sir.
stoptalkinsmack 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Those who currently control us also created us. Can you not get that extremely simple concept through your thick skull? Religion (with its gods) and science (with its theory of evolution) have poisoned your mind so much that you are now unable to see the obvious
SocraticTruth 2 years ago
What the fuck are you babbling about?
MrSalamander7 2 years ago
Soc..
Oh boy, not another deluded Fundy!
Look, I'll do U a favor, ok? I'll prove Evolution 2 u, if U prove your god exists!! How's that?
Ok, yes I was kidding, we both know U cant prove god is real bcuz there's no evidence 4 that. Soooo, I'll still prove Evolution is real!! That way, you'll know Adam & Eve is a BS story. I'll also show U how science has proven that the world flood "did not" happen!! That way U can choose to be free of the dogma!! No longer live under the fear of a cruel god!
Cootabux 2 years ago
I am shocked this guy would not turn a fundie into an atheist with this video. I don't know what Socratic Truth said as they have 7 thumbs down, must have been something pretty stupid. I too love the BMW analogy, actually got a funny story about an Audi being sold for 10 bucks but thats completely different story.
DiverforPort 2 years ago
I spoke truth and of course they downed...hey dont tell me or other people what not to believe in tell them WHAT To believe in since christianity so false..lol
SocraticTruth 2 years ago
I cant prove to you that my god exist Im an agnostic diest..LMAO...i just attack anybody who claim absolute sureity(if that is not a word it should) on what they believe...atheist christian muslims and satanist.....and god really isnt that cruel if he did create this he can do what ever he wants...
SocraticTruth 2 years ago
There's NO PROOF of a God!!!
screech519 3 years ago
THEN STOP BREATHING!
johnlewisbrooks 3 years ago
Epicurus stated the problem of evil perfectly:
Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?
Christians need to realized that God cannot be an omnipotent, loving, and merciful father and allow so much suffering in our world or condemn us to eternal hell.
Sorry2BurstYou 3 years ago
Here's a question I always had while growing up in church... If God is all the omni-stuff (in this case omnipresent), then HOW could Hell exists since its taught to be place where God does not exist- if you're in hell, you're outside the presence of God. Just another contradiction...
utubepunk 3 years ago
Well said.
hennypeck 3 years ago
Hah at 2:40
Hooya2 3 years ago
Hahahah!!!
I loved the last comment!
ROFL!
kentekent 3 years ago
It's not about whether or not people would choose God if they know 100% Jesus Christ is God, it's about whether or not our free will to do so would be threatened out of the fear of God. I have a lot of the same reasoning and philosophical questions you posed. However, I also know what it feels like when your life is poised to end and your in the dark of the tunnel questioning what's on the other side. Knowing how helpless we truly are without God builds faith. Christ is a personal choice.
sunk3n 3 years ago
I'm not helpless at all.
reiverdaemon 3 years ago
"T'was Grace that taught...
my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear...
the hour I first believed."
sunk3n 3 years ago
"...it's about whether or not our free will to do so would be threatened out of the fear of God."
I see, so knowing God is real destroys our free will. Therefore, God showing himself to be real to anyone is taking away their free will. His threats and demands that people fear him in the OT were violating people's free will.
Honestly, do you actually believe your own nonsense? Clearly, knowledge of God doesn't violate our free will, OR God has violated free will in the past.
Hooya2 3 years ago
Hooya2, thanks for questioning your beliefs. It is always good talk to somebody who is willing to consider and discuss what they think. There is a distinct difference between the events of the OT and the NT. The covenant of the OT is based on the law (God's orders) and when the phrophecy was fulfilled in the NT the covenant became based on faith/grace. Jesus Christ said, "Because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29
sunk3n 3 years ago
"There is a distinct difference between the events of the OT and the NT."
OK, and how does that change the fact that God showing himself to people drove them to fearfully worship him, and thus took away their free will?
I don't see how the difference you highlighted solves the problem.
Hooya2 3 years ago
Hooya: Let's cut to the chase. The "good" nature of God is somethn I often struggle with myself. Hwvr, I think God's nature is often taken out of context and incorrectly portrayed. I think the Bible makes it clear that we're here to serve God & please Him (not the other way arnd). God is good bc he created us in the first place, God is good bc he sent his Son to redeem us, & God is good bc he offers us an eternity with Him. Not bc He prevents bad things from happening nor bc the world is fair.
sunk3n 3 years ago
"God is good bc he created us in the first place, God is good bc he sent his Son to redeem us, & God is good bc he offers us an eternity with Him. Not bc He prevents bad things from happening nor bc the world is fair."
In other words, he's good for doing good things, but he's not bad for doing bad things.
Hooya2 3 years ago
The bad things that happen in the world aren't God's doing but a direct result of the Fall of Man. Why doesn't God intervene and stop the bad things from happening if He really loves us? I believe he allows them to happen so that we may know to appreciate the good. His intervention with Christ is proof that he loves us. And let me leave you with this thought: "God doesn't do good things. Things are good because God does them."
sunk3n 3 years ago
"The bad things that happen in the world aren't God's doing but a direct result of the Fall of Man."
Uh no, read your Bible. It wasn't man's sin that caused suffering to enter the world, it was the curse God laid on us afterwards. Eating the fruit didn't hurt anyone; God's retaliation did.
"I believe he allows them to happen so that we may know to appreciate the good."
Except being omnipotent means that he doesn't have to make us suffer to teach us things.
Hooya2 3 years ago
What you're saying is comparable to cheating on your wife than hating her for divorcing you.
sunk3n 3 years ago
"What you're saying is comparable to cheating on your wife than hating her for divorcing you."
What I'm saying is comparable to leaving the seat up on the toilet and having my wife cast a curse on me and all of my children so that they must live in a world far worse than the one we lived in, and then after death will spend eternity burning in agony, until 4,000 years later when she 'graciously' decides to allow me to beg forgiveness after I nail one of her own children to the wall.
Hooya2 3 years ago 2
The bottom line is that you're not God.. & I'm not God. God is the great I AM. Regardless of your perception of His ways, things are what they are. The truths of the Bible are self evident & I have no need to convince you as you obviously read it. As far as being angry and blaming God.. the only one you end up hating is yourself. I don't understand all His ways, but I have more faith that His truths are real than I do in anything else. If we don't live for Him we waste our time on idols.
sunk3n 3 years ago
"The truths of the Bible are self evident & I have no need to convince you as you obviously read it."
Yes I have already read it, and its truth is in no way 'self-evident'. To be honest, the book reminds me of "How the leopard got his spots". It's clearly just a collection of absurd fables, mingled with some wildly exaggerated history.
Hooya2 3 years ago
So where does your faith and priorities lie? You might try reading through Proverbs again.
sunk3n 3 years ago
"So where does your faith and priorities lie?"
I try not to take anything on faith. My only major priority is leading a good life.
"You might try reading through Proverbs again."
I tried, but I only got this far before I quit in disgust:
1:28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
God is such a bastard, even when he's being described poetically.
Hooya2 3 years ago
Hey TheoreticalBS man, couple things:
There are a couple claims that your explanation starts out with that I believe flawed: "God does everything in his power to prevent people from going to hell." I think that'd be better stated as: "Christ did everything in his power to give us the ability to be saved." His death on the cross made salvation possible. Now it's up to us, to use our free will (which he has maintained the integrity of) to choose the life he has laid out before us.
sunk3n 3 years ago