Escape from Suburbia: Kate Holloway Part 2

[Maytons]

We don't need to look very far to see what a sustainable future could look like. The Amish and Mennonites are the example.

[16sag7]

What will it take for people to stop circulating the same old outdated solutions. Part of the problem is over population, corporate greed, and hidding technologies that will free man from the oil cartels. Food is only a problem because living in cities has made us stupid about simple survival activities. Lack in this world has been created by govenrments and big business working to control the world. If you don't learn this and put the real culprits out of business we all will suffer.

[raptorkiller2k5]

Overpopulation isn't a problem. What we're seeing is overconsumption form the Western world. Per capita and even aggregate consumption is higher in the West than it is in the East.

Suburbia needs to collapse.

[16sag7]

raptorkill2k5: Change in our enviornment can be improved by curbing human consumption but I would not want to live like my fellow man in the East. I am familliar with living living condition of the most Asians in the East. I rather raise the standard of living for all human being rather than reduce the life style of westerner to the level of those in the East. So I would opt for a combination of pupulation control and consuption. There are many people that need a better life in this world.

[krangatang]

death to the hairless ape!

[patproulx]

Don't buy the video!!! Try to download it!!!! What is morally wrong, stealing data bites, or using oil to creat the plastic case, the dvd, not to mention the amount of oil used in the fabrication of the paper, and the colour that goes on the cover of the paper, and the amount of oil it will consume to ship it to you. I say No!!!! Download it!!!! If you buy it, you are only adding to the problem!

[alanhowitzer]

One could argue that by watching this video on a computer oil is being consumed. A mouse, and much of the computer is made from oil based products. Maybe also the electricity running the computer comes from diesel, fuel oil, or natural gas powered plants, which all come from the same petroleum fields. I'm glad we're all thinking about this.

[crock703]

Mnn, taking money from people who invested probably a few years of their lives making this film, solely and altruistically to educate others, is wrong. Documentaries like this usually never recoup their costs let alone turn a profit.

You can't help using oil in some way, but you can use your money and time to send the market in the direction you want. Spending money on the DVD shows film makers, educators, civic leaders, and business that there is interest in this.

[patproulx]

Good point, however my aim is to NOT use money to help the market collapse so we can stop being controlled by bureaucrats and tyrants. We can all find harmony another way without using money.

-BTW I don't value money.

Sounds harsh, but I help others for the sake of helping them, not for money. People worship money more than religion. That's a problem!

[crock703]

When you give something to get something, you just tend to value it more also.

I'd bet that you use more oil/energy and make a bigger footprint when you drive back to the grocery store to buy the lettuce you forgot, than when buy a packaged & shipped DVD.

[patproulx]

Correction, I walk everywhere and get rides from people who are heading the same direction. I have no car.

I live about 300 meters from the grocery store, and yet I still grow some of my food.

For the first 18 years of my life I lived in a solar dwelling, and I'm planning on building an earthship (look this up, real interesting!!)

What I value most is my ability to do things. The only difference is that I don't get money for it. I barter.

Where did you get your assumptions from?!?!

[crock703]

I know all about earthships. I'm actually the most active N. American user on their message board.

Anyway, I wasn't making an assumption about your life. I was using "you" in the general, i.e. "a person."

Although you live a very environmentally ethical life, for the general pop, whom you urged to download the doc, buying a packaged dvd that helps the filmmaker & shapes 'the market,' is a reasonable trade off when you consider that far more fossil fuel is burned driving to the corner store.

[patproulx]

I can't say I'm "a person" because I understand "a person" to be a legal fiction or entity, body politics, corporation.

Just knowing that, is just-cause to deny being "a person". I do not understand the legal profession, and i don't infer anything from the language they use.

Do you know what being a person implies legally? Are all your observation based on assumptions? (just an observation)

I say I'm only a man.

no offense taken friend :) not my intention to offend you either :)

peace!

[larsroley]

I hope patproulx is going to download the video on a PC that is at least 5 years old and is spending all the money they saved on green power instead of a big new plastic PC. Then they should evaluate what they got out of the video and pay the producers accordingly.

[patproulx]

Actually I paid the producer in a far better way than with money, I passed on his message to a bigger audience. Much more valuable!

If you can't spread the message, then what's the point of trying to spread the knowledge?

Did you ever think that perhaps I'm using a public computer in a public library?!?! Far older than 5 years old,. hehhehe but at least the connection is fast.

What have you done to save on green power?

[lahoolendahl]

I understand that we are posting here to pat ourself on the back and focus on trivial little details to distract ourself from the frustration that we are not already living self sufficiently in an earthship-style house.

I have finally started making the transition to a self sufficient community and hope that everyone posting here is doing the same.

[patproulx]

Here here!!! I've been preparing to do the transition for about 2 years now,... damn internet though,... that's a hard thing to quit. Good information though, got all of my research books for the earthship and now I'm researching the difference between standard English and legalese. Anyone interested in being free, start looking, there's tonnes of info out there!!!

[crock703]

Its worth a lot to shape the larger world he lives in, but it doesn't help him feed his kids or fund his next project in the immediate. Its not as though someone who did pay for it, or yourself assuming you paid, wouldn't spread his message anyway.

[patproulx]

He should get an earthship! More value in it then money in the long run. Without the need to pay for services such as electricity, water, sewage, food production, taxes, ect., he'll have more time and resources to focus on the messages rather then worry about the funding.

That's why I'm doing it! Once I'm setup, all of my focus will be on making animated films to share with the world, and if you like it, and you feel obliged to pay me, then offer me something, I'll even take a smile as payment!

[BubbFromGEI]

I liked David Suzuki's comments: Food is all about oil. Since it travels such a long distance to get to the end consumer.

[catbox]

We're ready.

[oldhacks]

when I hear you say "how far do i have to walk get water" I can't help but think of the third world nations that have dealt with these issues for centurys

[gazzyjeanne]

Some things are beyond the problem solving capacity of humans. All the evidence is that peak oil is in this category. Therefore, we will be forced to accept nature's solution. Knowing that the fundamental problem is really human overpopulation, it is clear what solution nature will bring; swift and massive population reduction corresponding with the collapse of our industrial society.

[markfrancis228]

gj: That's a deep green critique, and I'm not sure that I agree with it. We do know in principle what we have to do to minimize the global warming problem, though the laws of thermodynamics are unforgiving: where will the energy come from when oil production declines? The answer: Live local, and take responsibility.

[gazzyjeanne]

I agree that live local and take responsibility will work for some; the last time we lived like that, however, doing so only supported 1 billion population, not 6.5 billion. My estimate is that the world in 2020 will only have 57% of the oil available today, and the USA will only have 30% since imports will disappear. Can the US economy function at these levels?

[krangatang]

Arm yourself, for the fellow hairless ape will be looking to eat you and your family in the very near future.

[raptorkiller2k5]

@gazzyjeanne. Overpopulation isn't the issue, it's more so, overconsumption. Look at the per capita consumption levels in say, Finland, vs. Canada. I can include Japan, Singapore, other Scandinavian nations, all which are first-world economies, by the way.

[markfrancis228]

There are many things that have to happen to promote growth of plants beyond a growth in Co2. Co2 concentrations have been rising for decades, and we have not seen plant life rise to the occasion. Also, CO2 concentrations have been increasing some 60 times faster than historical records of previous eras. We just have not seen plant life adapt. The idea that CO2 increase will be offset by increased growth in plants is simply not true.

[UnderseaCaveman]

Sub Captain to the crew during casualty repair efforts:

"Don't worry about the fire, the flooding will take of that".

I am not worried about Global Warming, Peak Oil will take care of that!

[markfrancis228]

The problem is, we're already in a mess with GHGs, and by the time oil production and use is low enough to not be a further threat, it'll be too late. It'll take centuries for CO2 concentrations to reduce.

[UnderseaCaveman]

Well, we'll have to adapt to both....loss of oil and a warmer planet. I believe the ecology will adapt and sop up the CO2 in time to buffer effects. I don't the economy will be as robust, it has never seen "shock" like what's coming!

[markfrancis228]

There's no adaptation which will do that. Carbon sinks are not going to suddenly show up. Actually, the oceans, as they warm, will release more and more CO2 as warmer liquids can't hold as much dissolved gases. It's also not true that the density of plant life will increase due to increased CO2.

[UnderseaCaveman]

As a caveman who's "been there", I beg to differ all the same, thank you. I remember all that green life popping up back when....LOL!

[PahaLukki]

You guys are wrong. Once oil becomes too expensive we are going to burn all the remaining coal we have to kingdom come. GHGs will still be a problem since there is such a huge temptation to burn coal.