By the way, Chirotalk is full of bias and knee-jerk misinformed and resentful unprofessional comments that cannot be taken seriously by an honestly intelligent mind.
haish...,yes "Chirotalk" was formed by former chiropractic doctors that failed to understand chiropractic. their role in chiropractic, thus failing in chiropractic practice. Thank you for your support of chiropractic. I see 550 pv/week with 30 new patients per month. Chiropractic is alive and well, in fact it is the fastest growing primary health care field.
My friend, pain is a sign of prolonged dysfunction from repetitive stress. Much like thirst, you feel thirsty when your body is already dehydrated. Pain appears after dysfunction and stress have already been present for a long time. In order to return proper movement/function to dysfunctional joints, an adjustment is done on such dysfunctional segment. With a dysfunctional segment in which a joint is unilaterally rubbing against another joint, it's only a matter of time before pain sets in.
End range thrusts produce a change in volume in the jt capsule, hence takg jt out of it's normal physiologic state. Mobilizing joints while they are moving through their ROM allows them to improve mobility in their NML phys. state & reestablish functional pain-free movement. Many ways to improve joint function whether in pain or not; I prefer helping jt's move through their range to reestablish nml, indepent procedures can allow them to continue to self treat. Look up brian mulligan PT
I SUFFERED FROM LOWER BACK PAIN FOR MONTHS (ABOUT 5 MONTHS) DID PHISYCAL THERAPY, WENT TO BACK SPECIALIST, BUT THE ONLY THING THAT ACTUALLY TOOK THE PAIN AWAY WAS THIS ADJUSTMENT FOR L5..MY DOCTOR DOES IT ON BOTH SIDES THOUGH. AFTER THE FIRST ADJUSTMENT THE PAIN WENT AWAY...wE DID ABOUT 4 MORE THE SAME WEEK..ADN ITS DEFINITELY WORKING FOR ME IM GOING TO GO ONCE A MONTH FORM NOW OWN TO AVOID BIRRITATION AND LET MY MUSCLES GET USED TO THE NEW SPINE CONFIG... THANK GOOD FOR CHIROPRACTORS...
I'm happy for you. I've been able to help many people who hadn't gotten relief from others as well. All PT is not alike, nor is all Chiro.. There is no reason to have manipulations without pain however, nothing in any study anywhere provides support for preventative maintenance and most research oriented chiropractors even acknowledge this fact. As soon as you sit up from the table, gravity has it's effects; postural stresses don't disappear, etc..
ProPT..., if "There is no reason to have manipulations (DC's "adjust") without pain", then is it warranted when there is pain...when the processes of degenerative disc and joint disease has begun or "well set"? We understand pain is an "after thought", meaning...pain receptors fire after the fact...after the insult. A little advice, which chiropractic understands all to well...encourage preventative (wellness) care. The allopathic model of "crisis care" is too expensive in suffering, and money.
I have no problem help'g joints move properly priorto pain onset.However,as Dr. Jacob,D.C even says: Manip is an energetic mvmnt toward end-range.When a pt responds well to manip,that means they R amenable to mech,therapy. If manip is helping, then Y isnt this being accomplished by pt him/herself?There R NUMEROUS self mob procedures,as well as manual proced.which improve jt function w/out doing periodic manips.ManyDC consider rep,manips a form of rep trauma, the outcome of which is assumed
Look up Brian Mulligan P &examine the techniques which is gathering more&more supportive research. U can help jts move as they are suppose to move during the actual movements (Mobilizations with movements) & help restore mobility w/out doing so by placing the jt into a non-physiologic state & hope that when things retighten to stabilize the segment, will be maintained. I'm for anything that helps some1 & I'd like to see people relate their claims as theoretical as oppose to conclusive,as I DO.
ProPT..., DC's perform repetative "adjustments" to the spine for both the same and different reasons than PT's. DC's are interested in restoring proper "nerve flow", studied the positive effects of repetitive spinal adjustments in both restoring primary curves of the spine, and reducing inflammation of joints that are adjacent to nerve roots and receptors...all send infornation to the brain and an answer is sent back to the periphery.
Spine reacts to gravity as soon as it has to fight gravity.IF cavitation occurs&artificial loosening the jt(Nitrogen gas expansion of out fluid to take up increased caps volume), occurs; the jt is not in NML physiologic state.What effects will gravity have on such a joint?U really think it can remain in pos you put it in?USE your obvious SKILLS to help jts move properly & teach proper posture & body mechanics,teach self jt mob procedures.This is Y many chiro's R abandon'g the term adjustment
The Doctor specifically adjusted the bone to take pressure off that particular nerve. The pinched nerve what is causing the instrument to break. Or flicker.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
If you really had good intentions about my well-being, I truly apologize. I guess you're a nerd like me just trying to find some answers. Good luck to you too. I don't know about you but I do feel relief in my neck and back after some rest and physical therapy couple of times a week. I would recommend physical therapy or my orthopedist any day. I hear the new wave of health professional are only treating evidence-based techniques. That's how it should be. I watch the discovery channel last night
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
on the 100 greatest discoveries. The reason we live today without disease infestation is through research and replicable science. Professions like chiros waste our education fund and insurance money. That money can be used for credible research to benefit society. That's what's starting to bug me the most. GOod luck and sorry if I offended anyone. I just wanted to advocate the truth that's all.
I think I'll stick with physical therapy since its helping me tremendously. I'm doing all the therapy exercises and it hasn't exacerbated like the chiro's treatment. Also, there's evidence of conversative treatment for physical therapy but I can't find one for your neck vibrator. Please... if you can get me some solid evidence that's considered valid from a systematic point of view by true "scientists" I may try it. I'd appreciate it if you stop providing me with proofless suggestions. Thanks.
After the chiropractic adjustment I'm having a lot of problems. The worst is when I sneeze and my neck muscle pulls or causes tremendous pain on the oppisite side of my neck where the pain used to be. It feels like a whiplash, like one of the comments left to me. I've been receiving physical therapy and it's been slowly helping get my motion back without pain. A good pillow and PT was all I needed according to the orthepedist and PT.
You're going to find out the effectiveness and limitations of physical therapy.They have their place with rehabilitation but will never correct your problem.You will go through many pillows without lasting relief.You could sleep on a rock with a good neck and wake pain free,the common denominator is your whiplashed neck not the pillow so save your money.Get a wrap around neck vibrator and lay back on it before you sleep for a few nights, your body will reduce the sublux. to some degree with rest
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I'm not going to bash on chiropractors anymore bc life is partially about making money. I am, however, disappointed that chiro profession continues to by putting fear into people by telling them all these proofless theories. Dempstead, make your money but don't try to sell your voodoo to me. Your nonsense may work with the older generation but I doubt the health conscious and well-educated would ever give you profession a time of day. Please no suggestions about vibrators or evolved chiro voodoo
My messages were meant to help and the tone was "matter of fact", Not to sell you anything. Who wants a scorned patient?! I can relate because some quack chiros hurt me too and i was sharing what I do as
I'm afraid to go back to any chiropractors. I researched about chiropractic treatments and they have no evidence. Furthermore, chiropractic adjustments only cause harm b/c it pushes the spine out of the normal movement range of your spine. There's absolutely nothing in the research that truely support chiropractors for what they do. How are they treating so many people and getting away with this? Also, cases like mine are very common where chiropractors harm patients like me. I feel so abused.
The quack probably layed you on your back and twisted your neck, thats a whiplash! Of course you got worse. Your problem would improve just as profoundly in a positive way if you were to see an evolved chiro but good luck finding one. The catch 22 is that only another chiro can fix a patient that has been stung by a chiro! But the odds of finding that guy in your area are slim to none. Hot showers and neck massagers help between the many flare ups you'll experience in life. Good luck
Ok,there are 5 criteria used to find the subluxation.The scope(1of5)measures heat and floats around.When the scope runs over a herniated disc the inflammation releases more heat into one probe which runs through the instrument(down gradient)in the form of electrons causing scope to give a characteristic sharp deflection of the needle.A thermoelectric block.This is a potential subluxation.The scope is one criteria to find the pblm but is the definitive criteria to indicate when to leave it alone.
Lateral wedging is present with most herniated discs and most often there is more inflammation on the open wedge side in the acute state. Inflammation or Heat which flows in the form of electrons(electricity)down gradient through the scope to the other side. The needle points to the side the electrons are entering the scope(hot side)and a "signature" is observed when running over the swolen area. It can be repeated over and over which makes it scientific. And once corrected no signature occurs.
This only indicates a POTENTIAL subluxation and must be confirmed with the other criteria! Some think the scope "zeros" when corrected but many times THIS IS NOT TRUE! The needle floats with the body heat without the sharp deflection when the area in question is normal. The scope is a precious instrument but it has some weaknesses especially in finding chronic pblms and inflammation that is bilaterally symmetrical. Potential areas are marked, and later confirmed before an adjustment is given.
Sounds interesting enough, but will the needle shift to one side if I have been lying on one side and have my back scoped? Because no doubt the side I was lying on will be warmer... What is it's proper name? Just scope? Do you happen to have any ramdomized controlled trials in an established medical journal that you can direct me to inorder to find out more? In short, what is the anatomy of a subluxation? Thanks.
Nervo-scope is the most used.Plaugher published a study you can google but its limited.There is 2 temps..skin heat and nerve pressure heat(swolen discs are adjacent to nerve roots).So if you heat one side the needle will show more heat but the "break"(signature)will remain and indicate the nerve heat at the respective level.Indicating the level of the herniated disc is the key,not how much heat reading.But again the scope is only one tool used and must be confirmed by palpation and other means.
Subluxation=Trauma causes a vertebrae to slip on the disc dislodging the nucleus which tears and deranges the annular fibers working itself to the foramen usually. This disc will swell up and buldge and this herniatiated part of the disc will produce nerve pressure either in the spinal cord or neural foramen.The disc cannot slip!Its attached to the vertebrae above and the one below; but the vertebrae does slip on the disc, protruding the disc and causing nerve pressure.This explains most sublux.
So in short, you're saying a subluxation is a herniated/prolapsed intervertebral disc that has resulted in vertebral nerve compression? Is it still a subluxation if there is no neural compression, if the prolapse for example is only minor? How do you explain the fact that in most MRI, it is quite clear that it's discal matter that gets displaced, in most cases, the vertebral bodies don't look displaced at all?
Every subluxation by definition has direct or indirect nerve interference AND a fixation.Sometimes an L5 subluxation will rotate and cause a ballooning disc at L3 but not a fixation. So L5 is the herniated disc and needs the attention not L3 regardless of symptoms.Most MRI's are taken recumbent so they are structurally insignificant.The subluxation is very minute, it's the compensation that shows more misallignment. The subluxation never has exostosis and fusion like the compensation does.
I agree most of the degenerative changes are in areas of chronic compensation. However I wouldn't say the subluxation never degenerative changes. Do you think Gonstead was wrong with his D1-D6 disc theory?
Not likely, Gonstead hasn't let me down yet. The only cases Ive ever seen degeneration on the subluxation are the lifetime chiropractic cases who were manipulated for many years(20-30) by a diversified chiropractor. These pressures were man made and minors. In addition the major sublux disc(s) is/are absolutely degeneration free while most of the rest of the spine has moderate to severe degeneration. Restoring the curves takes much more time and visits in these cases (in my experience).
The D1-6 classifications are only observations of the disc with the most likely etiology.For example a D1 isn't necessarily an acute subluxation of the respective disc.If the other criteria arent present(namely FIXATION)it's not the subluxation and you'll sting that patient! That doesn't mean Gonstead was wrong,our application was wrong.Cord pressure can cause a D1 of ANY disc and you'll find a sharp break,and SEEMINGLY a fixation..But that patient wont respond til you correct the cord pressure.
Most subluxated discs are chronic inflammatory processes and the Inflammation properties prevents scar tissue and degenerative changes from taking place. Remember the cytokines and the strict order of the inflamm. response or cascade. Scar tissue is resorbed soon after its formed if the inflammation doesnt taper down at just the right time. A herniated disc will never evolve through the healing stages until the chemical messengers of the immune system controll the inflammation INSTEAD OF...
The structure of the body offending itself, causing the inflammatory response to go unchecked.Remember the nucleus pulposus(notochord) is considered foreign by the immune system due to being sequestered. So!, you have to structurally correct the cause of the "artificial" inflammation so that the immune system controls the exact amount of inflammatory response, then LEAVE IT ALONE! and the body will heal itself and begin to function correctly. Health happens no other way. Gonstead is soo right.
A pt can bend over to lift a child and immed experience LBP and classic sciatica. Youll find a L5-D1 on xray confirmed with the scope and the antalgia and spasm will mimic a fixation. No significant relief will occur with adjustments to L5 whether it cracks or not. THEN youll note the tachycardia, Reflux, Spasms etc. and find ONE POINT OF PRESSURE AT ATLAS!Set it one good time and the pt is 90% better. Widen your terminals when scoping the atlas, Half of the breaks are missed otherwise.
A difficult current case is a pt with L hip and lat.distal calf sciatica with an acute disc at L4 and a L sASIN(3mm) with an occult spondylo L5(with degeneration due to the Fx). L4 got the sciatica out of the hip but no relief in the calf.sASIN of up to 4mm is an ASIN which applies here(Lsac increased the sx).PS spondy sac didn't move and atlas double clunked but only gave temporary relief. Now the lordotic curves are restored beautifully(L4&T2) but L ASIN is my next attempt to fix the symptoms.
After 6 failing visits Im frustrated because I know DrGonstead would have fixed this pt in 2 visits or less.When the major is adjusted correctly that patient immediatly improves markedly.Have you ever fixed a chronic pt in 1 visit after 30 failure visits? I have! We dont understand the power of chiropractic. Only when we are able to FIND THE SUBLUXATION in the first visit every time will we begin to understand what we are missing most of the time.Gonstead wasn't wrong, my application is wrong.
Also, bone never causes nerve pressure, its always a disc(except with atlas and SI's).Many times even the weight bearing xray doesnt show misalignment so the position must be assessed with motion palpation. One thing to note is that other than atlas and ilium, every subluxation is posterior to its foundation.This is masked by apex posterior wedging in the cervical and lumbar spines.The herniated discs wax and wane as do the sx based on the stressors encountered in ones environment.
Most people dont understand the link between chiropractic and health.Most feel better when their spine is crunched and dont blame the chiro when they get sick months to years later.These manipulations are as addictive as drugs to many patients so in a sick way the worst chiros make the most money and good chiros struggle when they fix paying customers.You're a casualty of capitalism.The whiplash you have will likely affect your overall health about as much as a bad habit such as smoking..Endure.
Unfortunately, the difference between the cigarettes of a smoker and the adjustments given to the addicted patient is that packets of cigarettes now have health warnings on them. Unfortunately when someone returns to a 'bad' chiro time and again, it's because they have literally bought into the scam of the well rehearsed, smooth talking quack. It's like the cigarette packet having a sticker on it reading 'smoking gives you wellness'
Some people actually end up much worse. It's really a gamble. also, different chiropractors seem to have different techniques, so trying another one may resolve it if the pain gets worse. I go tomorrow for my first time after finding out I have L3, L4, and L5 Arthritis and pinched nerves in L4 and L5. I'm only 21! This is what happens when you work for UPS! DON'T DO IT PEOPLE!
Just wondering, as I have had many patients come to me after having been diagnosed by a chiro with all sorts of spinal and structural issues (usually the pelvis is tilted or rotated or there is a massive misalignment at one vertebral level or another), only to have their spine showing up as relatively normal on xray and MRI and physical examination. A referral to a PT nearly always sorts them out.
He referred me actually. Said the guy was really good and this may be the only thing that may help. He said he's against given pain meds and relaxers and all that and it was my choice, but I denied it. The chiropractor even said many times when I saw him yesterday "So many people look so hard for the answers to their pain, and they just don't realize it's stemmed mostly from stress. Loosening the muscles and having massage and chiropractic therapy over time relieves it incredibly".
Good to hear you're getting relief but a word of advice, do not let the chiro crack your neck. Afterall, you are going in for lower back issues. If your neck feels fine, don't let anyone fool around with it - you might not regret it now, but you could regret it a whole lot more down the line... And I don't only refer to chiros, I am also talking about physios and osteos.
Oh, and when I went... it was weird. As if I could stand straight upright again, and the stress seemed gone. The pain did come back 5 hours or so later though, but like both doctors said, it's therapy, and therapy takes time. I do gotta say... I can sort of feel it helping... i just hope over time it really does go away.
Was it the same pain that got worse or a new type of pain? Did the chiro adjust your neck while you were laying on your back?Did he adjust your lower back the same visit?Did he take xrays before?does the pain radiate into your arms/legs?Do you have mm spasms or numbness subsequent?Anxiety?Did he crack the upper and lower part of your neck?Have you gained weight since?Trouble sleeping?
There are over 200 different chiropractic tecniques out there. There are some techniques that are derived from osteopathy and used by MD's. Those can make your worse because after a while you'll loose you neck lordosis. Hope this helps. Dr. Roman
I took my wife to 7 different hospitals with no resolve. My father worked with 5-6 different real estate gurus who asked for lots of money with little help. Same with lawyers. Best advice is to move on to someone good. Oh and stay away from Kaiser.
I believe it's incorrect to teach the young Chiros. that the scope MUST be zeroed after each set. There are many reasons that make the needle move besides the nerve pressure, ie..muscle hypertonicity, edema, etc..and some of that still exists after the set...even if it's a Great one.
When you clear the scope...YOU DONT HAVE TO ADJUST THAT BONE AGAIN! It's corrected! You're lucky to make a reduction each visit. When you really clear the scope it's clear tomorrow, its clear next week without adjustments, then you stop and release the patient. You guys get a reduction but look careful and you'll find the remaining break;If you SLOW THAT SCOPE DOWN AND LOOK.Or just wait 10 min. I've left gohls seminar with a group and we rescoped all the same breaks he claimed to clear remained.
Yes he did...and he also said it was especially true in the cervical region, esp. with the atlas, that you can you COULD get a complete reduction within a minute. But because of the tissue thickness in the T/S, L/S it would take longer...I can count about 5 seconds before the post check.
Not saying that occasionally we can't immediately zero the scope ...I've done it myself many times. It's usually an immediate "partial reduction"..especially w/ an instrument as sensitive as the delta-t.
No drraydc you are wrong. The Delta-T was on after the adjustment. Please check out my other videos, look for the one called the Post Check. Dr. Gonstead believed you would get a reduction immediately after the adjustment.
The deltaT was on and I happened to see a break. Even if its only 1 point of pressure just wait a few minutes and it'll increase again. And if you cant find it with that delT bet I'll find it with my nervoscope;You know, what Dr Gonstead himself used! How close do you want to get to Gonstead? Do you think it doesn't matter? DO ALL SCOPES WORK TOO? :) "Read my theme..Find the subluxation, Accept it where you find it, Correct it, and for god sakes..Leave it alone."-Clarence Gonstead dIRTY dOZEN
By the way, Chirotalk is full of bias and knee-jerk misinformed and resentful unprofessional comments that cannot be taken seriously by an honestly intelligent mind.
haishalehaish 2 years ago
haish...,yes "Chirotalk" was formed by former chiropractic doctors that failed to understand chiropractic. their role in chiropractic, thus failing in chiropractic practice. Thank you for your support of chiropractic. I see 550 pv/week with 30 new patients per month. Chiropractic is alive and well, in fact it is the fastest growing primary health care field.
chiropractic47 2 years ago
My friend, pain is a sign of prolonged dysfunction from repetitive stress. Much like thirst, you feel thirsty when your body is already dehydrated. Pain appears after dysfunction and stress have already been present for a long time. In order to return proper movement/function to dysfunctional joints, an adjustment is done on such dysfunctional segment. With a dysfunctional segment in which a joint is unilaterally rubbing against another joint, it's only a matter of time before pain sets in.
haishalehaish 2 years ago
End range thrusts produce a change in volume in the jt capsule, hence takg jt out of it's normal physiologic state. Mobilizing joints while they are moving through their ROM allows them to improve mobility in their NML phys. state & reestablish functional pain-free movement. Many ways to improve joint function whether in pain or not; I prefer helping jt's move through their range to reestablish nml, indepent procedures can allow them to continue to self treat. Look up brian mulligan PT
ProPTRehab 2 years ago
I SUFFERED FROM LOWER BACK PAIN FOR MONTHS (ABOUT 5 MONTHS) DID PHISYCAL THERAPY, WENT TO BACK SPECIALIST, BUT THE ONLY THING THAT ACTUALLY TOOK THE PAIN AWAY WAS THIS ADJUSTMENT FOR L5..MY DOCTOR DOES IT ON BOTH SIDES THOUGH. AFTER THE FIRST ADJUSTMENT THE PAIN WENT AWAY...wE DID ABOUT 4 MORE THE SAME WEEK..ADN ITS DEFINITELY WORKING FOR ME IM GOING TO GO ONCE A MONTH FORM NOW OWN TO AVOID BIRRITATION AND LET MY MUSCLES GET USED TO THE NEW SPINE CONFIG... THANK GOOD FOR CHIROPRACTORS...
kickyourass777 3 years ago
I'm happy for you. I've been able to help many people who hadn't gotten relief from others as well. All PT is not alike, nor is all Chiro.. There is no reason to have manipulations without pain however, nothing in any study anywhere provides support for preventative maintenance and most research oriented chiropractors even acknowledge this fact. As soon as you sit up from the table, gravity has it's effects; postural stresses don't disappear, etc..
ProPTRehab 2 years ago
ProPT..., if "There is no reason to have manipulations (DC's "adjust") without pain", then is it warranted when there is pain...when the processes of degenerative disc and joint disease has begun or "well set"? We understand pain is an "after thought", meaning...pain receptors fire after the fact...after the insult. A little advice, which chiropractic understands all to well...encourage preventative (wellness) care. The allopathic model of "crisis care" is too expensive in suffering, and money.
chiropractic47 2 years ago
I have no problem help'g joints move properly priorto pain onset.However,as Dr. Jacob,D.C even says: Manip is an energetic mvmnt toward end-range.When a pt responds well to manip,that means they R amenable to mech,therapy. If manip is helping, then Y isnt this being accomplished by pt him/herself?There R NUMEROUS self mob procedures,as well as manual proced.which improve jt function w/out doing periodic manips.ManyDC consider rep,manips a form of rep trauma, the outcome of which is assumed
ProPTRehab 2 years ago
Look up Brian Mulligan P &examine the techniques which is gathering more&more supportive research. U can help jts move as they are suppose to move during the actual movements (Mobilizations with movements) & help restore mobility w/out doing so by placing the jt into a non-physiologic state & hope that when things retighten to stabilize the segment, will be maintained. I'm for anything that helps some1 & I'd like to see people relate their claims as theoretical as oppose to conclusive,as I DO.
ProPTRehab 2 years ago
ProPT..., DC's perform repetative "adjustments" to the spine for both the same and different reasons than PT's. DC's are interested in restoring proper "nerve flow", studied the positive effects of repetitive spinal adjustments in both restoring primary curves of the spine, and reducing inflammation of joints that are adjacent to nerve roots and receptors...all send infornation to the brain and an answer is sent back to the periphery.
chiropractic47 2 years ago
Spine reacts to gravity as soon as it has to fight gravity.IF cavitation occurs&artificial loosening the jt(Nitrogen gas expansion of out fluid to take up increased caps volume), occurs; the jt is not in NML physiologic state.What effects will gravity have on such a joint?U really think it can remain in pos you put it in?USE your obvious SKILLS to help jts move properly & teach proper posture & body mechanics,teach self jt mob procedures.This is Y many chiro's R abandon'g the term adjustment
ProPTRehab 2 years ago
did he readust his spine or someting?
Beatlesfan71 3 years ago
The Doctor specifically adjusted the bone to take pressure off that particular nerve. The pinched nerve what is causing the instrument to break. Or flicker.
vixxtor 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
If you really had good intentions about my well-being, I truly apologize. I guess you're a nerd like me just trying to find some answers. Good luck to you too. I don't know about you but I do feel relief in my neck and back after some rest and physical therapy couple of times a week. I would recommend physical therapy or my orthopedist any day. I hear the new wave of health professional are only treating evidence-based techniques. That's how it should be. I watch the discovery channel last night
dealioo 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
on the 100 greatest discoveries. The reason we live today without disease infestation is through research and replicable science. Professions like chiros waste our education fund and insurance money. That money can be used for credible research to benefit society. That's what's starting to bug me the most. GOod luck and sorry if I offended anyone. I just wanted to advocate the truth that's all.
dealioo 3 years ago
I think I'll stick with physical therapy since its helping me tremendously. I'm doing all the therapy exercises and it hasn't exacerbated like the chiro's treatment. Also, there's evidence of conversative treatment for physical therapy but I can't find one for your neck vibrator. Please... if you can get me some solid evidence that's considered valid from a systematic point of view by true "scientists" I may try it. I'd appreciate it if you stop providing me with proofless suggestions. Thanks.
dealioo 3 years ago
After the chiropractic adjustment I'm having a lot of problems. The worst is when I sneeze and my neck muscle pulls or causes tremendous pain on the oppisite side of my neck where the pain used to be. It feels like a whiplash, like one of the comments left to me. I've been receiving physical therapy and it's been slowly helping get my motion back without pain. A good pillow and PT was all I needed according to the orthepedist and PT.
dealioo 3 years ago
You're going to find out the effectiveness and limitations of physical therapy.They have their place with rehabilitation but will never correct your problem.You will go through many pillows without lasting relief.You could sleep on a rock with a good neck and wake pain free,the common denominator is your whiplashed neck not the pillow so save your money.Get a wrap around neck vibrator and lay back on it before you sleep for a few nights, your body will reduce the sublux. to some degree with rest
dempstead 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I'm not going to bash on chiropractors anymore bc life is partially about making money. I am, however, disappointed that chiro profession continues to by putting fear into people by telling them all these proofless theories. Dempstead, make your money but don't try to sell your voodoo to me. Your nonsense may work with the older generation but I doubt the health conscious and well-educated would ever give you profession a time of day. Please no suggestions about vibrators or evolved chiro voodoo
dealioo 3 years ago
My messages were meant to help and the tone was "matter of fact", Not to sell you anything. Who wants a scorned patient?! I can relate because some quack chiros hurt me too and i was sharing what I do as
dempstead 3 years ago
NO CHIRO TOUCHES ME ANYMORE EITHER! Anyways good luck and goodbye
dempstead 3 years ago
I'm afraid to go back to any chiropractors. I researched about chiropractic treatments and they have no evidence. Furthermore, chiropractic adjustments only cause harm b/c it pushes the spine out of the normal movement range of your spine. There's absolutely nothing in the research that truely support chiropractors for what they do. How are they treating so many people and getting away with this? Also, cases like mine are very common where chiropractors harm patients like me. I feel so abused.
dealioo 3 years ago
The quack probably layed you on your back and twisted your neck, thats a whiplash! Of course you got worse. Your problem would improve just as profoundly in a positive way if you were to see an evolved chiro but good luck finding one. The catch 22 is that only another chiro can fix a patient that has been stung by a chiro! But the odds of finding that guy in your area are slim to none. Hot showers and neck massagers help between the many flare ups you'll experience in life. Good luck
dempstead 3 years ago
Dempstead, please explain what this guy is doing with the measuring instrument he uses on the patient's back. Is it some crude form of EMG?
Medic88888 3 years ago
Ok,there are 5 criteria used to find the subluxation.The scope(1of5)measures heat and floats around.When the scope runs over a herniated disc the inflammation releases more heat into one probe which runs through the instrument(down gradient)in the form of electrons causing scope to give a characteristic sharp deflection of the needle.A thermoelectric block.This is a potential subluxation.The scope is one criteria to find the pblm but is the definitive criteria to indicate when to leave it alone.
dempstead 3 years ago
Lateral wedging is present with most herniated discs and most often there is more inflammation on the open wedge side in the acute state. Inflammation or Heat which flows in the form of electrons(electricity)down gradient through the scope to the other side. The needle points to the side the electrons are entering the scope(hot side)and a "signature" is observed when running over the swolen area. It can be repeated over and over which makes it scientific. And once corrected no signature occurs.
dempstead 3 years ago
This only indicates a POTENTIAL subluxation and must be confirmed with the other criteria! Some think the scope "zeros" when corrected but many times THIS IS NOT TRUE! The needle floats with the body heat without the sharp deflection when the area in question is normal. The scope is a precious instrument but it has some weaknesses especially in finding chronic pblms and inflammation that is bilaterally symmetrical. Potential areas are marked, and later confirmed before an adjustment is given.
dempstead 3 years ago
Sounds interesting enough, but will the needle shift to one side if I have been lying on one side and have my back scoped? Because no doubt the side I was lying on will be warmer... What is it's proper name? Just scope? Do you happen to have any ramdomized controlled trials in an established medical journal that you can direct me to inorder to find out more? In short, what is the anatomy of a subluxation? Thanks.
Medic88888 3 years ago
Nervo-scope is the most used.Plaugher published a study you can google but its limited.There is 2 temps..skin heat and nerve pressure heat(swolen discs are adjacent to nerve roots).So if you heat one side the needle will show more heat but the "break"(signature)will remain and indicate the nerve heat at the respective level.Indicating the level of the herniated disc is the key,not how much heat reading.But again the scope is only one tool used and must be confirmed by palpation and other means.
dempstead 3 years ago
Subluxation=Trauma causes a vertebrae to slip on the disc dislodging the nucleus which tears and deranges the annular fibers working itself to the foramen usually. This disc will swell up and buldge and this herniatiated part of the disc will produce nerve pressure either in the spinal cord or neural foramen.The disc cannot slip!Its attached to the vertebrae above and the one below; but the vertebrae does slip on the disc, protruding the disc and causing nerve pressure.This explains most sublux.
dempstead 3 years ago
So in short, you're saying a subluxation is a herniated/prolapsed intervertebral disc that has resulted in vertebral nerve compression? Is it still a subluxation if there is no neural compression, if the prolapse for example is only minor? How do you explain the fact that in most MRI, it is quite clear that it's discal matter that gets displaced, in most cases, the vertebral bodies don't look displaced at all?
Medic88888 3 years ago
Every subluxation by definition has direct or indirect nerve interference AND a fixation.Sometimes an L5 subluxation will rotate and cause a ballooning disc at L3 but not a fixation. So L5 is the herniated disc and needs the attention not L3 regardless of symptoms.Most MRI's are taken recumbent so they are structurally insignificant.The subluxation is very minute, it's the compensation that shows more misallignment. The subluxation never has exostosis and fusion like the compensation does.
dempstead 3 years ago
I agree most of the degenerative changes are in areas of chronic compensation. However I wouldn't say the subluxation never degenerative changes. Do you think Gonstead was wrong with his D1-D6 disc theory?
yuee17 3 years ago
Not likely, Gonstead hasn't let me down yet. The only cases Ive ever seen degeneration on the subluxation are the lifetime chiropractic cases who were manipulated for many years(20-30) by a diversified chiropractor. These pressures were man made and minors. In addition the major sublux disc(s) is/are absolutely degeneration free while most of the rest of the spine has moderate to severe degeneration. Restoring the curves takes much more time and visits in these cases (in my experience).
dempstead 3 years ago
The D1-6 classifications are only observations of the disc with the most likely etiology.For example a D1 isn't necessarily an acute subluxation of the respective disc.If the other criteria arent present(namely FIXATION)it's not the subluxation and you'll sting that patient! That doesn't mean Gonstead was wrong,our application was wrong.Cord pressure can cause a D1 of ANY disc and you'll find a sharp break,and SEEMINGLY a fixation..But that patient wont respond til you correct the cord pressure.
dempstead 3 years ago
Most subluxated discs are chronic inflammatory processes and the Inflammation properties prevents scar tissue and degenerative changes from taking place. Remember the cytokines and the strict order of the inflamm. response or cascade. Scar tissue is resorbed soon after its formed if the inflammation doesnt taper down at just the right time. A herniated disc will never evolve through the healing stages until the chemical messengers of the immune system controll the inflammation INSTEAD OF...
dempstead 3 years ago
The structure of the body offending itself, causing the inflammatory response to go unchecked.Remember the nucleus pulposus(notochord) is considered foreign by the immune system due to being sequestered. So!, you have to structurally correct the cause of the "artificial" inflammation so that the immune system controls the exact amount of inflammatory response, then LEAVE IT ALONE! and the body will heal itself and begin to function correctly. Health happens no other way. Gonstead is soo right.
dempstead 3 years ago
A pt can bend over to lift a child and immed experience LBP and classic sciatica. Youll find a L5-D1 on xray confirmed with the scope and the antalgia and spasm will mimic a fixation. No significant relief will occur with adjustments to L5 whether it cracks or not. THEN youll note the tachycardia, Reflux, Spasms etc. and find ONE POINT OF PRESSURE AT ATLAS!Set it one good time and the pt is 90% better. Widen your terminals when scoping the atlas, Half of the breaks are missed otherwise.
dempstead 3 years ago
A difficult current case is a pt with L hip and lat.distal calf sciatica with an acute disc at L4 and a L sASIN(3mm) with an occult spondylo L5(with degeneration due to the Fx). L4 got the sciatica out of the hip but no relief in the calf.sASIN of up to 4mm is an ASIN which applies here(Lsac increased the sx).PS spondy sac didn't move and atlas double clunked but only gave temporary relief. Now the lordotic curves are restored beautifully(L4&T2) but L ASIN is my next attempt to fix the symptoms.
dempstead 3 years ago
After 6 failing visits Im frustrated because I know DrGonstead would have fixed this pt in 2 visits or less.When the major is adjusted correctly that patient immediatly improves markedly.Have you ever fixed a chronic pt in 1 visit after 30 failure visits? I have! We dont understand the power of chiropractic. Only when we are able to FIND THE SUBLUXATION in the first visit every time will we begin to understand what we are missing most of the time.Gonstead wasn't wrong, my application is wrong.
dempstead 3 years ago
Also, bone never causes nerve pressure, its always a disc(except with atlas and SI's).Many times even the weight bearing xray doesnt show misalignment so the position must be assessed with motion palpation. One thing to note is that other than atlas and ilium, every subluxation is posterior to its foundation.This is masked by apex posterior wedging in the cervical and lumbar spines.The herniated discs wax and wane as do the sx based on the stressors encountered in ones environment.
dempstead 3 years ago
Most people dont understand the link between chiropractic and health.Most feel better when their spine is crunched and dont blame the chiro when they get sick months to years later.These manipulations are as addictive as drugs to many patients so in a sick way the worst chiros make the most money and good chiros struggle when they fix paying customers.You're a casualty of capitalism.The whiplash you have will likely affect your overall health about as much as a bad habit such as smoking..Endure.
dempstead 3 years ago
Unfortunately, the difference between the cigarettes of a smoker and the adjustments given to the addicted patient is that packets of cigarettes now have health warnings on them. Unfortunately when someone returns to a 'bad' chiro time and again, it's because they have literally bought into the scam of the well rehearsed, smooth talking quack. It's like the cigarette packet having a sticker on it reading 'smoking gives you wellness'
Medic88888 3 years ago
Is it possible to make your neck pain worse from adjustment? I saw a chiropractor and my neck pain bacame very bad!
dealioo 3 years ago
Some people actually end up much worse. It's really a gamble. also, different chiropractors seem to have different techniques, so trying another one may resolve it if the pain gets worse. I go tomorrow for my first time after finding out I have L3, L4, and L5 Arthritis and pinched nerves in L4 and L5. I'm only 21! This is what happens when you work for UPS! DON'T DO IT PEOPLE!
seclusively 3 years ago
Who may i ask diagnosed you with arthritis in L3, L4 and L5 and pinched nerves in L4 and L5?
Medic88888 3 years ago
Some world-known Neurologist called Dr Perel. I think the guys main reason is of the treating of MS patients. Really nice guy, too. Why do you ask?
seclusively 3 years ago
Just wondering, as I have had many patients come to me after having been diagnosed by a chiro with all sorts of spinal and structural issues (usually the pelvis is tilted or rotated or there is a massive misalignment at one vertebral level or another), only to have their spine showing up as relatively normal on xray and MRI and physical examination. A referral to a PT nearly always sorts them out.
Medic88888 3 years ago
He referred me actually. Said the guy was really good and this may be the only thing that may help. He said he's against given pain meds and relaxers and all that and it was my choice, but I denied it. The chiropractor even said many times when I saw him yesterday "So many people look so hard for the answers to their pain, and they just don't realize it's stemmed mostly from stress. Loosening the muscles and having massage and chiropractic therapy over time relieves it incredibly".
seclusively 3 years ago
Good to hear you're getting relief but a word of advice, do not let the chiro crack your neck. Afterall, you are going in for lower back issues. If your neck feels fine, don't let anyone fool around with it - you might not regret it now, but you could regret it a whole lot more down the line... And I don't only refer to chiros, I am also talking about physios and osteos.
Medic88888 3 years ago
Oh, and when I went... it was weird. As if I could stand straight upright again, and the stress seemed gone. The pain did come back 5 hours or so later though, but like both doctors said, it's therapy, and therapy takes time. I do gotta say... I can sort of feel it helping... i just hope over time it really does go away.
seclusively 3 years ago
Oh and another question, did this Dr Perel refer you to a chiropractor or did you make that decision?
Medic88888 3 years ago
Was it the same pain that got worse or a new type of pain? Did the chiro adjust your neck while you were laying on your back?Did he adjust your lower back the same visit?Did he take xrays before?does the pain radiate into your arms/legs?Do you have mm spasms or numbness subsequent?Anxiety?Did he crack the upper and lower part of your neck?Have you gained weight since?Trouble sleeping?
dempstead 3 years ago
There are over 200 different chiropractic tecniques out there. There are some techniques that are derived from osteopathy and used by MD's. Those can make your worse because after a while you'll loose you neck lordosis. Hope this helps. Dr. Roman
vixxtor 3 years ago
I took my wife to 7 different hospitals with no resolve. My father worked with 5-6 different real estate gurus who asked for lots of money with little help. Same with lawyers. Best advice is to move on to someone good. Oh and stay away from Kaiser.
vixxtor 3 years ago
Mike would have LOVED this! He couldn't use a computer, but boy could he adjust! Thanks for putting him on here...
simplynaturalmom 3 years ago
Rotation... but too minimal flexion and no distraction. Weak adjustment!
linglingchat 3 years ago
Classic Dr. Mike. Great vid. Thanks.
ImDacrusha 4 years ago
I miss Mike. He was one of the best. Thanks for posting this video.
dannodcdc 4 years ago
nice adjustment, that is real p to a
pbeley 4 years ago
I believe it's incorrect to teach the young Chiros. that the scope MUST be zeroed after each set. There are many reasons that make the needle move besides the nerve pressure, ie..muscle hypertonicity, edema, etc..and some of that still exists after the set...even if it's a Great one.
drraydc111 4 years ago
When you clear the scope...YOU DONT HAVE TO ADJUST THAT BONE AGAIN! It's corrected! You're lucky to make a reduction each visit. When you really clear the scope it's clear tomorrow, its clear next week without adjustments, then you stop and release the patient. You guys get a reduction but look careful and you'll find the remaining break;If you SLOW THAT SCOPE DOWN AND LOOK.Or just wait 10 min. I've left gohls seminar with a group and we rescoped all the same breaks he claimed to clear remained.
dempstead 3 years ago
Yes he did...and he also said it was especially true in the cervical region, esp. with the atlas, that you can you COULD get a complete reduction within a minute. But because of the tissue thickness in the T/S, L/S it would take longer...I can count about 5 seconds before the post check.
Not saying that occasionally we can't immediately zero the scope ...I've done it myself many times. It's usually an immediate "partial reduction"..especially w/ an instrument as sensitive as the delta-t.
drraydc111 4 years ago
gotta' turn on the Delta-T after the adjustment for the post check.
Even Dr. G said it would take a while for the change to occur, particularly in the lumbar region.
drraydc111 4 years ago
No drraydc you are wrong. The Delta-T was on after the adjustment. Please check out my other videos, look for the one called the Post Check. Dr. Gonstead believed you would get a reduction immediately after the adjustment.
gonsteadtruth 4 years ago
The deltaT was on and I happened to see a break. Even if its only 1 point of pressure just wait a few minutes and it'll increase again. And if you cant find it with that delT bet I'll find it with my nervoscope;You know, what Dr Gonstead himself used! How close do you want to get to Gonstead? Do you think it doesn't matter? DO ALL SCOPES WORK TOO? :) "Read my theme..Find the subluxation, Accept it where you find it, Correct it, and for god sakes..Leave it alone."-Clarence Gonstead dIRTY dOZEN
dempstead 3 years ago