to put this engine into perspective the space in the cylinders would hold almost 6 2liter soda bottles thats just the space from the heads of the pistons to the valves when theyre at the bottom of their strokes, makes you think doesnt it
im all for pro stock engines, but if its the morons that say its a ford, a chevy, a mopar... etc... 99% of these engines are built custom, based a simple v8 valve train design. not because of a logo.
its just no one wants to put a ford big block in there car bc there afraid but it isnt really true...haha my freind has a ford big block 632 and it screams down the road dude..its sweet!
pfft..fords make the biggest blocks dude............the biggest chevy can make is a 572 borded out and everything....the biggest for can make is a 429 to a 632
Technically he is right on stock stuff... but in aftermarket..... which REALLY isn't Ford or Chevy they are way bigger! Any Block can have deck blocks bolted to it and raise up the deck height for more inches... ;)
@calearonson And technically I am still right too. There is a local builder here that has built a 590ci BB using a stock block but has been years since i heard anything out of him...........
That is a small engine! You need to look at my more recent videos. We run an 825 Hemi in Pro Stock, but there are 900 cubic inchers out there too. There were 707 Pro Stock engines back in the early 80's.
There are a few I know of... but they are few and far between. That stuff is all 5.3 bore spacing stuff and they have a lot less stroke and all bore. The R&D it took to get our 5.0" Bore stuff to where it is would cost an arm and leg to duplicate... meaning the evolution of the class!
yea id like to find out where to get such a big cube big block ford n hit 600ci or more ut im only finding 557 so if you know a little something where to find a big block ford in 600 ci range could yea let me know!
...very nice. Good to see a true blue Ford Pro Stock. I remember when this was a 10.5/NMRA car. So what about 500" NHRA when another kind of purist can field a car like this one? Thanks
In traditional Outlaw 10.5 that was a rule. You must retain stock steel roof, Quarter panals, Firewall, towers, and front frame rails. Other than weight it doesn't matter. The rest of the car is more or less a Pro Stock car. If it weren't for the rules I would agree. But that was the rules. Still is!
Thing has gotta be 1000hp and torque easy. Jon Kaase builds awesome small block Ford's. He had a 400ci SBF with over 650hp. Unbelievable engine. The guys a genius with Ford big block and small block motors. Has a 598ci BBF in his 08 Mustang with 800hp on the street. Must eat Z06's for fu#kin lunch.
Jon is the man.... that 698 was making well over 1100 on torque. He is about to start on updating my engine for next year.... but pretty much building a new one. Can't wait for that dyno pull!
Where do ya get the cash for a motor like that. It's gotta be at least $20,000 for that kind of quality an power. Is that a street/ strip motor, or full drag race only.
LOL! That is more like an $80,000 engine! That is a drag race only engine. 40 runs and it needs new rods, bearings, rings, etc... It made 1440 hp N/A! That is a 698 Cubic Inch Engine that turns 8500 rpm!
More like you have to have one of two things.... an addiction to racing or just hate money. LOL! If you are interested in this stuff you need to watch NHRA, ADRL, and other stuff!
What kind of CR does that motor have? That throttle response is rediculous its a shame that a motor that large revs faster than my V6TT great work. Why do you stick with N/A and not run say SC ot turbo set-up? I have never built a motor close to this level but I would think that a 698cu in motor at say 9.0:1 cr with twin 96mm would last longer and make more power . Not trying doubt obviously you aree professionals but just curious.
Ya get some great torque out of that big long stroke motor, makes it launch real hard of the line I bet. Id love to try to take one down the strip with out wreckin. I built 521 cubes, it makes great power. Id love to have 698. Nice motor man. How much fuel you burn?
Yeah, you can't fathom the amount of hours of CNC work, dyno testing, flow bench testing etc that goes into the design of a manifold of that quality. You certainly get what you pay for.
damn that thing is measured in gallons per mile. 8k for a damned intake is pretty steep. Would think a pro welder could do it for 600 bucks. Its not like its made of titanium.
Sure a welder could do it for 600 bucks, but will he be able to calculate perfect air flow, pressured cornering, and the most performant compressed diameter, just by looking at it? There's a reason an intake like that will cost so much, and why they would pay that price. You wouldn't believe the time that goes into building such precise equipment testing them with such detail. It's engineering like this that makes thing like nascar and f1.
Most of these drag cars running huge n/a big blocks run similar intakes to this one. Most of them have cast in bosses for nitrous oxide also. I am not sure who makes them, but they are more than likely custom. Your not gonna pick it up @ Autozone lol!
In professional racing we pretty much only use Sheet Metal intakes, like the one you see there. That one is an HRE manifold. It is about $8000.00
You are looking at a professionally built 698 cubic inch engine with an RDI aluminum block, Blue Thunder Aluminum THOR Heads, HRE Sheet Metal Intake, Sonny Bryant Crank Shaft, LSM Cam, PSI Springs, T&D Rockers, CP Pistons, GRP Aluminum Rods, Moroso Dry Sump Oil System, Star Vac Pump, Point is.... about $85,000.00 and makes 1400+ hp N/A 2000 w/N20
If you can make power out of a Ford with their restricted exaust passages you should be able to make power with just about anything.
The aftermarket seems to cater more towards the Chevy crowd making it cheaper and easier for them to make power, but some people still can't do it . Ford has good aftermarket suppliers but you still have to know what you're doing to make them work.
Must be some "chevy lovers" voting on this (?) for me to get three thumbs down for pointing out that the Ford fans really need to be good at what they do to make this kind of power. Anybody can make cheap horsepower with a chevy !
@oldSawyer Yes, engines are all just air pumps in the basic sense. Great air fuel mixture and port velocity and not necessarily port size does the trick on all engines. Heads are where the power is. Chevy parts have been cheaper in the past but the LS engines with symetrical intake and exhaust ports and Y block design are not so cheap anymore.
This car was built well before Ford released the new Boss engine, which was origanlly called the Hurricane. Prior to that there is not a Ford Boss engine. See Wikipedia for a lsit of Ford engines. So what defines a Boss Mustang? A Boss mustang can refer simply to the styling of the vehicle, as in, Boss stripes.
beware of wiki! Ford built two Boss engines in '69 and '70. Small block Boss 302 and big (429-460 ) block Boss 429. Boss 302 had Cleveland 351-style, big valve heads. Boss 429 had spark-plug-in-center hemi style heads.
Both engines were made for high-rpm running, where they made great high-end power. The Boss 302 was developed for Trans-Am series racing, the Boss 429 for NASCAR. Boss Mustangs were far more than styling.
It is a Blue Thunder (Thor) Head. It is a wedge headed engine. A Hemi Head is where the plug is located directly in the middle of the combustion chamber and where the plug goes down through the valve cover. We run an 815 Hemi in my Pro Stock car.
That's what I was saying, I think. rotor22 was sying it's a wedge, not a Boss. When you asked for the rotor for the definition, I chimed in with the definition, which you just confirmed. This is a wedge headed car, not a Boss.
And it kicks total ASS!!!!! But you still haven't given me mpg numbers. :-\
Some people seem to think that the hemi shape makes more power when in reality the reason for the hemi head is to angle the valves from the cylinder allowing larger diameter valves which flow better. The more air in, the more fuel that can be burned, and the higher the HP. A lot of people don't know that there were many cars trucks and tractors in the early 1900's & 1910's with 4 valve hemi heads roller cams, roller rockers, etc. So much for 'Modern technology' ! What's Old, is New Again !
yes it does allow for larger valves,but No thats not why hemi-heads are so good. Look at any 2-stroke and it'll be a hemi. it's the most efficient shape. and with a hemi-head a 4-stroke is given a squish band effect squeezing all the air/fuel mixutre to a central point. I'd rather spend $400 on machine work for getting a squish band dead on than buying aftermarket exhaust!
The centrally located sprk plug helps, but the squish band is controlled by the combination of the head and piston shapes. You can induce swirl and squish in any engine from a Flathead to an F-head, T-head, Wedge, or Hemi.
Bigger valves mean better airflow, means more power.
The hemi shape was originally designed in the early 1900's to lower the temperature through better airflow and having the valves opposite each other. It then allowed them to raise the compression without over heating.
A good 3 valve or 4 valve engine will flow even better than a hemi due to the bigger window when the valves are open. A 3 valve gives more room for slightly larger valves than a 4 valve would letting you optimize the size of the intake valves which are more important than the size of the exhaust valve within reason. You don't want too small of an exhaust valve causing restriction but the exhause is going out under pressure while the intake is relying on vacuum and atmospheric pressure to breathe
I'v read the numerous time. However,I don't understand what you mean by "a bigger window"? and I thought a pressurized exhaust would be good for a turbo application? I am a bit confused. lol Would you mind elaborating on your comment?
"A bigger Window" simply means a bigger opening. You're limited to how big of valves you can fit into the diameter of the cylinder. Say a 4 inch bore would allow a maximum of 2 inch intake & 2 inch exhaust or 2 1/2 int & 1 3/4 exh. By using three valves or 4 valves, even though each indivual valve is smaller, they actually flow more air than two large valves.
Turbos actually create backpressure, while building pressure in the intake. the smaller the turbo, the higher the backpressure.
The engine in your street car has a certain amount of backpressure in the exhaust which forces some of the exhaust back into the cylinder while the intake & exhaust are both open (overlap) which dilutes the incoming fuel charge & reburns some of the exhaust gasses which is one of the ways they meet the emission standards. Freeing up the exhaust makes more power as it allows a fuller charge of the "new" air/fuel mixture into the cylinder which is why drag racers run open headers
In simple terms....Turbo's and Blower's both eat up horsepower while making horsepower, one by plugging up the exhaust, and the other by parasitic drag on the engine driving it through a belt.
But They Both force more air into the cylinders which allows the engine to burn more fuel making more power.
o0o0oh, thank you that cleared up some questions, because I thought the more "cfm" that's flowed, means the more better the head flow is, for ex, i seen that a 429 can flow 341 cfm @ .500, so i was leaning towards building up an engine like that for a project. It uses 1 huge intake valve.
There's more to it than that though. 1 huge valve or 2 smaller valves will still only flow the Max CFM or cubic feet per minute of air (air/fuel) while at the maximum lift. With the cam lift and duration variables, you may only be at your .500 lift for 1-5 degrees of rotation.... the rest of the time the valve is either opening or closing gradually. At 5000 RPM your cam is spinning 2500RPM or just under 42 revs per second only being at max lift for up to 1/72 of that time or less than 1/100sec
o0oh also did a little bit of reading about this. They say that its better to use 2 smaller valves because @ higher RPMS the weight of the valve becomes a little harder to control, 1 valve requires more than 2 singles with the same weight [spring]
I hadn't considered the weight/RPM. Each smaller lighter valve, can use lighter springs to control valve float, but it also means you have twice as many springs exerting pressure which also has to be overcome by horsepower.... Kind of a toss up there ?
Two Thumbs UP on doing more reading before building an engine. And read from a variety of sources to compare information as opinions vary. As far as that goes, don't just take my word for it either, do some more reading. See next post too.
dtpctc : You don't specify what you're building your "project engine" for.... Street use only, drag strip only, circle track, street/strip, etc.... Each use requires a different strategy when building.
Street use and trailer pulling, you need low end torque, circle track you need top end horsepower, drag strip needs a combination of that varying with your rear end gearing choice. Street/strip use, I would concentrate on low-mid range torque with better breathing for the top end.
If you're building an 'all around' engine for street use with some racing, the Very Best article I ever read was in one of the 4 wheel/Off road magazines ! I don't remember which one, but they had an article on building a big cubic inch engine for low end torque, picking a good low-mid range RPM cam for even more low end torque, & then doing a good 3 angle valve job & port matching the heads/intake to improve the breathing for top end power. With lots of torque you don't need as much gearing.
I have a 69 Firebird that I built up a 455 Pontiac .030 over (462CID) from a 72 Grandville. I used a Crower "Baja-Beast" cam which had an advertized RPM power-band of 1500-5500 RPM in a 350-400. I figure the power band in 1200-5200 in the 462. With my 2.56:1 rear end, 5200RPM would be 168 MPH, though the highest I've ever run it was 140 for a few miles before dropping back down. My Quarter mile times were only in the low 14 second range, but again that's with a 2.56:1 rearend in 2nd gear........
I swapped that engine into another 69 Bird with a 3.08:1 rear end, but never got back to the local strip before it closed to check it out.... I'm guessing it would be in the mid to high 12 second range.
Just a side note, this was roughly 20 years ago,
A friend of mine at the time built up a Cutlass with a 400 OLDS high compression, radical cam and 4.56:1 gears, but it took him over 14 years and lots of help to match the 1/4 mile times I had with my 2.56:1 gears.
One person just started crying... What do we do now a BBF Ford !
6poundsoft 3 weeks ago
rich dudes
mark4tk 3 months ago
@mark4tk I wish.... LOL!
calearonson 2 months ago
@ reap62 got me thinkin
WWFstunna13 3 months ago
to put this engine into perspective the space in the cylinders would hold almost 6 2liter soda bottles thats just the space from the heads of the pistons to the valves when theyre at the bottom of their strokes, makes you think doesnt it
reap62 3 months ago
im all for pro stock engines, but if its the morons that say its a ford, a chevy, a mopar... etc... 99% of these engines are built custom, based a simple v8 valve train design. not because of a logo.
784plb 3 months ago
badass! makes me want to throw rocks at my 460. lol
ironhead460 4 months ago
At 0:07, I crapped. This is beast!!!!
steelerfreek007 6 months ago
@steelerfreek007
LOL... that engine was cool... but not like our 825 Hemi... ;)
calearonson 6 months ago
its just no one wants to put a ford big block in there car bc there afraid but it isnt really true...haha my freind has a ford big block 632 and it screams down the road dude..its sweet!
RSxB3aster99 6 months ago
pfft..fords make the biggest blocks dude............the biggest chevy can make is a 572 borded out and everything....the biggest for can make is a 429 to a 632
RSxB3aster99 6 months ago
@RSxB3aster99 Well by that comment we know you don't have a clue!
peanuttization 3 months ago
@peanuttization
Technically he is right on stock stuff... but in aftermarket..... which REALLY isn't Ford or Chevy they are way bigger! Any Block can have deck blocks bolted to it and raise up the deck height for more inches... ;)
calearonson 3 months ago
@calearonson And technically I am still right too. There is a local builder here that has built a 590ci BB using a stock block but has been years since i heard anything out of him...........
peanuttization 3 months ago
I WOULD LIKE THIS MOTOR.... PLEASE SEND
HOTRODRICO 7 months ago
BIG BLOCK
falaqdad15 7 months ago
Is the engine a 698 C.I?
I never heard of engines bigger than 557 Ford's before
BigBoss9865327410 8 months ago
@BigBoss9865327410
That is a small engine! You need to look at my more recent videos. We run an 825 Hemi in Pro Stock, but there are 900 cubic inchers out there too. There were 707 Pro Stock engines back in the early 80's.
calearonson 8 months ago
@calearonson Gene Fulton now has a 1000+ cubic inch engine in his arsenal now. Crazy.
bootman2k1 7 months ago 3
@bootman2k1
There are a few I know of... but they are few and far between. That stuff is all 5.3 bore spacing stuff and they have a lot less stroke and all bore. The R&D it took to get our 5.0" Bore stuff to where it is would cost an arm and leg to duplicate... meaning the evolution of the class!
calearonson 7 months ago
@calearonson
sure you do
aminimaleffort 3 months ago
yea id like to find out where to get such a big cube big block ford n hit 600ci or more ut im only finding 557 so if you know a little something where to find a big block ford in 600 ci range could yea let me know!
393wfox 9 months ago
WOW, What a Grocery Getter for Grandma..LOL
Very Nice Video..
CrashAndBurnagain 10 months ago
It's not a ford Hemi motor!
Iesous238 11 months ago
umm it says boss 698 but that not a boss head design... thats a wedge
rickanddave1 11 months ago
NEEDS MORE ENGINE.
grasscat1977 1 year ago
i came:(.....how much did that cost cuz thats now my dream motor
FoxBodyMike87 1 year ago
...very nice. Good to see a true blue Ford Pro Stock. I remember when this was a 10.5/NMRA car. So what about 500" NHRA when another kind of purist can field a car like this one? Thanks
kiloilio 1 year ago
skinny kids cars are always bad ass :)
jeffb8074 1 year ago
how tall are the deck plates? surely you need deck plates to get 698ci
terran698 2 years ago
thanks alot, i just came in my pants lol.
B1TCHarlie 2 years ago
hey calearonson is there a reason your keeping the stock frame rails and the shock towers, I would have went with a full tube setup. just curious,
Aarius1972 2 years ago
In traditional Outlaw 10.5 that was a rule. You must retain stock steel roof, Quarter panals, Firewall, towers, and front frame rails. Other than weight it doesn't matter. The rest of the car is more or less a Pro Stock car. If it weren't for the rules I would agree. But that was the rules. Still is!
calearonson 2 years ago
ahh, damn rules. super sweet ride. awsome build.
Aarius1972 2 years ago
Check out the videos on the newest ride! Our 2010 Pro Stock Mustang! It is the best ride we have had to date... bar none!
calearonson 2 years ago
Thing has gotta be 1000hp and torque easy. Jon Kaase builds awesome small block Ford's. He had a 400ci SBF with over 650hp. Unbelievable engine. The guys a genius with Ford big block and small block motors. Has a 598ci BBF in his 08 Mustang with 800hp on the street. Must eat Z06's for fu#kin lunch.
irvinemuscles 2 years ago
Jon is the man.... that 698 was making well over 1100 on torque. He is about to start on updating my engine for next year.... but pretty much building a new one. Can't wait for that dyno pull!
calearonson 2 years ago
Where do ya get the cash for a motor like that. It's gotta be at least $20,000 for that kind of quality an power. Is that a street/ strip motor, or full drag race only.
irvinemuscles 2 years ago
LOL! That is more like an $80,000 engine! That is a drag race only engine. 40 runs and it needs new rods, bearings, rings, etc... It made 1440 hp N/A! That is a 698 Cubic Inch Engine that turns 8500 rpm!
calearonson 2 years ago
$80,000, I'm assuming u have sponsors or ur a millionaire
irvinemuscles 2 years ago
More like you have to have one of two things.... an addiction to racing or just hate money. LOL! If you are interested in this stuff you need to watch NHRA, ADRL, and other stuff!
calearonson 2 years ago
R those motors built with big clearances, and do they use /burn oil more easily.
irvinemuscles 2 years ago
What kind of CR does that motor have? That throttle response is rediculous its a shame that a motor that large revs faster than my V6TT great work. Why do you stick with N/A and not run say SC ot turbo set-up? I have never built a motor close to this level but I would think that a 698cu in motor at say 9.0:1 cr with twin 96mm would last longer and make more power . Not trying doubt obviously you aree professionals but just curious.
DVcustomZ 2 years ago
Ya get some great torque out of that big long stroke motor, makes it launch real hard of the line I bet. Id love to try to take one down the strip with out wreckin. I built 521 cubes, it makes great power. Id love to have 698. Nice motor man. How much fuel you burn?
460ciford 2 years ago
omfg a 698 that thing must have got tons of torque
cobraopts7 2 years ago
Yeah, you can't fathom the amount of hours of CNC work, dyno testing, flow bench testing etc that goes into the design of a manifold of that quality. You certainly get what you pay for.
allumina 2 years ago
how did u get that motor size plz message me
mitchellz102 2 years ago
damn that thing is measured in gallons per mile. 8k for a damned intake is pretty steep. Would think a pro welder could do it for 600 bucks. Its not like its made of titanium.
FordGtman333 2 years ago
Sure a welder could do it for 600 bucks, but will he be able to calculate perfect air flow, pressured cornering, and the most performant compressed diameter, just by looking at it? There's a reason an intake like that will cost so much, and why they would pay that price. You wouldn't believe the time that goes into building such precise equipment testing them with such detail. It's engineering like this that makes thing like nascar and f1.
SunDownPoint 2 years ago
i dont no much about cars but is that manifold custom. dont get mad people i dont no much about engines
DDAY191 3 years ago
Most of these drag cars running huge n/a big blocks run similar intakes to this one. Most of them have cast in bosses for nitrous oxide also. I am not sure who makes them, but they are more than likely custom. Your not gonna pick it up @ Autozone lol!
yfz162 3 years ago
In professional racing we pretty much only use Sheet Metal intakes, like the one you see there. That one is an HRE manifold. It is about $8000.00
You are looking at a professionally built 698 cubic inch engine with an RDI aluminum block, Blue Thunder Aluminum THOR Heads, HRE Sheet Metal Intake, Sonny Bryant Crank Shaft, LSM Cam, PSI Springs, T&D Rockers, CP Pistons, GRP Aluminum Rods, Moroso Dry Sump Oil System, Star Vac Pump, Point is.... about $85,000.00 and makes 1400+ hp N/A 2000 w/N20
calearonson 3 years ago
John Kaase is an excellent Ford race engine builder. I believe he can even help the chevy boys make better power.....
IEATZR1 3 years ago 12
If you can make power out of a Ford with their restricted exaust passages you should be able to make power with just about anything.
The aftermarket seems to cater more towards the Chevy crowd making it cheaper and easier for them to make power, but some people still can't do it . Ford has good aftermarket suppliers but you still have to know what you're doing to make them work.
oldSawyer 2 years ago
Must be some "chevy lovers" voting on this (?) for me to get three thumbs down for pointing out that the Ford fans really need to be good at what they do to make this kind of power. Anybody can make cheap horsepower with a chevy !
oldSawyer 2 years ago
@oldSawyer Yes, engines are all just air pumps in the basic sense. Great air fuel mixture and port velocity and not necessarily port size does the trick on all engines. Heads are where the power is. Chevy parts have been cheaper in the past but the LS engines with symetrical intake and exhaust ports and Y block design are not so cheap anymore.
IEATZR1 10 months ago
@IEATZR1...
Kaase could rebuild a weed eater motor and he would find more power somehow.
5150jafo 10 months ago
prostock motor on nitrous, outlaw 10.5, car is or was for sale on racingjunk
equipmentwholesalers 3 years ago
So that's what a Corvette's nightmare sounds like... cool.
MADGOON 3 years ago 14
john kaase have god engines but that motor he has probably cost 45,000-50,000
1257969 3 years ago 2
Actually $70,000
calearonson 3 years ago
This car was built well before Ford released the new Boss engine, which was origanlly called the Hurricane. Prior to that there is not a Ford Boss engine. See Wikipedia for a lsit of Ford engines. So what defines a Boss Mustang? A Boss mustang can refer simply to the styling of the vehicle, as in, Boss stripes.
xxodixx42 4 years ago
beware of wiki! Ford built two Boss engines in '69 and '70. Small block Boss 302 and big (429-460 ) block Boss 429. Boss 302 had Cleveland 351-style, big valve heads. Boss 429 had spark-plug-in-center hemi style heads.
Both engines were made for high-rpm running, where they made great high-end power. The Boss 302 was developed for Trans-Am series racing, the Boss 429 for NASCAR. Boss Mustangs were far more than styling.
chip5959 3 years ago 3
I second everything you said. In fact, all Boss 429's have a unique NASCAR KK # tag on the drivers door.
z71offroad95 3 years ago 4
not a boss but damn cool i seen this car at bristol fun ford in 06 my favorite pro car
slageater2 4 years ago
It is indeed awesome however, it is not a Boss, it's a wedge.
rotorr22 4 years ago
Then my question to you, would be.... What is a Boss Cylinder Head? Please define!
calearonson 4 years ago
wouldn't that be the hemisperical head with the sparkplug in the middle? It looks like this one has the plugs placed more "traditionally"
But it's badass nonetheless!! What kind of fuel mileage do you get out of it and how does it behave in traffic?
LOL!!! J/K
NICE, man!!
groundpounder66 3 years ago
It is a Blue Thunder (Thor) Head. It is a wedge headed engine. A Hemi Head is where the plug is located directly in the middle of the combustion chamber and where the plug goes down through the valve cover. We run an 815 Hemi in my Pro Stock car.
calearonson 3 years ago
That's what I was saying, I think. rotor22 was sying it's a wedge, not a Boss. When you asked for the rotor for the definition, I chimed in with the definition, which you just confirmed. This is a wedge headed car, not a Boss.
And it kicks total ASS!!!!! But you still haven't given me mpg numbers. :-\
LOL!!!!
groundpounder66 3 years ago
"HEMI" is way too commericalized. People seem to think it's the whole engine rather than shape of the Hemi-spherical combustion chamber.
You think about this car while having sex dont you!!!!
Vrooom Vrooom Baby!
Cheers!
gregger454 3 years ago
Some people seem to think that the hemi shape makes more power when in reality the reason for the hemi head is to angle the valves from the cylinder allowing larger diameter valves which flow better. The more air in, the more fuel that can be burned, and the higher the HP. A lot of people don't know that there were many cars trucks and tractors in the early 1900's & 1910's with 4 valve hemi heads roller cams, roller rockers, etc. So much for 'Modern technology' ! What's Old, is New Again !
oldSawyer 2 years ago
yes it does allow for larger valves,but No thats not why hemi-heads are so good. Look at any 2-stroke and it'll be a hemi. it's the most efficient shape. and with a hemi-head a 4-stroke is given a squish band effect squeezing all the air/fuel mixutre to a central point. I'd rather spend $400 on machine work for getting a squish band dead on than buying aftermarket exhaust!
gregger454 2 years ago
The centrally located sprk plug helps, but the squish band is controlled by the combination of the head and piston shapes. You can induce swirl and squish in any engine from a Flathead to an F-head, T-head, Wedge, or Hemi.
Bigger valves mean better airflow, means more power.
The hemi shape was originally designed in the early 1900's to lower the temperature through better airflow and having the valves opposite each other. It then allowed them to raise the compression without over heating.
oldSawyer 2 years ago
A good 3 valve or 4 valve engine will flow even better than a hemi due to the bigger window when the valves are open. A 3 valve gives more room for slightly larger valves than a 4 valve would letting you optimize the size of the intake valves which are more important than the size of the exhaust valve within reason. You don't want too small of an exhaust valve causing restriction but the exhause is going out under pressure while the intake is relying on vacuum and atmospheric pressure to breathe
oldSawyer 2 years ago
ok,well I agree we're both savy in engine theory!
Cheers!
gregger454 2 years ago
I'v read the numerous time. However,I don't understand what you mean by "a bigger window"? and I thought a pressurized exhaust would be good for a turbo application? I am a bit confused. lol Would you mind elaborating on your comment?
dtpctc 2 years ago
"A bigger Window" simply means a bigger opening. You're limited to how big of valves you can fit into the diameter of the cylinder. Say a 4 inch bore would allow a maximum of 2 inch intake & 2 inch exhaust or 2 1/2 int & 1 3/4 exh. By using three valves or 4 valves, even though each indivual valve is smaller, they actually flow more air than two large valves.
Turbos actually create backpressure, while building pressure in the intake. the smaller the turbo, the higher the backpressure.
oldSawyer 2 years ago
The engine in your street car has a certain amount of backpressure in the exhaust which forces some of the exhaust back into the cylinder while the intake & exhaust are both open (overlap) which dilutes the incoming fuel charge & reburns some of the exhaust gasses which is one of the ways they meet the emission standards. Freeing up the exhaust makes more power as it allows a fuller charge of the "new" air/fuel mixture into the cylinder which is why drag racers run open headers
oldSawyer 2 years ago
In simple terms....Turbo's and Blower's both eat up horsepower while making horsepower, one by plugging up the exhaust, and the other by parasitic drag on the engine driving it through a belt.
But They Both force more air into the cylinders which allows the engine to burn more fuel making more power.
oldSawyer 2 years ago
o0o0oh, thank you that cleared up some questions, because I thought the more "cfm" that's flowed, means the more better the head flow is, for ex, i seen that a 429 can flow 341 cfm @ .500, so i was leaning towards building up an engine like that for a project. It uses 1 huge intake valve.
dtpctc 2 years ago
There's more to it than that though. 1 huge valve or 2 smaller valves will still only flow the Max CFM or cubic feet per minute of air (air/fuel) while at the maximum lift. With the cam lift and duration variables, you may only be at your .500 lift for 1-5 degrees of rotation.... the rest of the time the valve is either opening or closing gradually. At 5000 RPM your cam is spinning 2500RPM or just under 42 revs per second only being at max lift for up to 1/72 of that time or less than 1/100sec
oldSawyer 2 years ago
o0oh also did a little bit of reading about this. They say that its better to use 2 smaller valves because @ higher RPMS the weight of the valve becomes a little harder to control, 1 valve requires more than 2 singles with the same weight [spring]
dtpctc 2 years ago
I hadn't considered the weight/RPM. Each smaller lighter valve, can use lighter springs to control valve float, but it also means you have twice as many springs exerting pressure which also has to be overcome by horsepower.... Kind of a toss up there ?
Two Thumbs UP on doing more reading before building an engine. And read from a variety of sources to compare information as opinions vary. As far as that goes, don't just take my word for it either, do some more reading. See next post too.
oldSawyer 2 years ago
dtpctc : You don't specify what you're building your "project engine" for.... Street use only, drag strip only, circle track, street/strip, etc.... Each use requires a different strategy when building.
Street use and trailer pulling, you need low end torque, circle track you need top end horsepower, drag strip needs a combination of that varying with your rear end gearing choice. Street/strip use, I would concentrate on low-mid range torque with better breathing for the top end.
See next...
oldSawyer 2 years ago
If you're building an 'all around' engine for street use with some racing, the Very Best article I ever read was in one of the 4 wheel/Off road magazines ! I don't remember which one, but they had an article on building a big cubic inch engine for low end torque, picking a good low-mid range RPM cam for even more low end torque, & then doing a good 3 angle valve job & port matching the heads/intake to improve the breathing for top end power. With lots of torque you don't need as much gearing.
oldSawyer 2 years ago
I have a 69 Firebird that I built up a 455 Pontiac .030 over (462CID) from a 72 Grandville. I used a Crower "Baja-Beast" cam which had an advertized RPM power-band of 1500-5500 RPM in a 350-400. I figure the power band in 1200-5200 in the 462. With my 2.56:1 rear end, 5200RPM would be 168 MPH, though the highest I've ever run it was 140 for a few miles before dropping back down. My Quarter mile times were only in the low 14 second range, but again that's with a 2.56:1 rearend in 2nd gear........
oldSawyer 2 years ago
My Ramblings continued....
I swapped that engine into another 69 Bird with a 3.08:1 rear end, but never got back to the local strip before it closed to check it out.... I'm guessing it would be in the mid to high 12 second range.
Just a side note, this was roughly 20 years ago,
A friend of mine at the time built up a Cutlass with a 400 OLDS high compression, radical cam and 4.56:1 gears, but it took him over 14 years and lots of help to match the 1/4 mile times I had with my 2.56:1 gears.
oldSawyer 2 years ago
Thanks, will do, if i get more info will be sure to challenge you
ahaha
dtpctc 2 years ago
revving to 600 isn't that new and those motors cost fortunes to produce compared to the pushrod sucessors
OriginalSamsquatch 2 years ago
THAT SOUND GIVES ME WOOD!!!!
dwmtl1000s 4 years ago