@liw213 The prophet warns in Isaiah 5:20, “What sorrow for those who say that evil is good and good is evil, that dark is light and light is dark, that bitter is sweet and sweet is bitter.” In the last days (most experts believe to be either now or very soon approaching) those who are evil will attempt to turn everything around in order to deceive as many as satan can gather to be with him instead of God. God rewards goodness and would never change good for evil under any circumstances.
Im against anyone having their right to speak freely whether ts something I dont agre with taken away or turned into hate speech the Gov is getting out of control big time we are going to end p like China soon hope all who support this are happy when were like China, no thanks
amen God is against theives, drunkards, fornicators just as much as he against homosexuality God did not create anyone that way satan did but anyone can be forgiven if they repent turn away from sin and accept Jesus Christ as their savior
WOOOOOW!!! They are going to attack ENDA??? REALLY?? This movie is absolutely sick. Just rotten to the core and it is so obvious they want to totally dismantle all rights for GLBT people so they can treat them however they want. I am literally sick to my stomach. I am gay, and I was fired from my job for being gay and I sued my employer!!! After a long court battle, I won. It was geat, and they deserved it but it was because of ENDA. God Bless ENDA! Im so glad these laws are passed and safe.
@PhilosoFighter2012 Let's talk again on judgement day. May God bless you with the desire to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior so that all this and God's Word the Bible will make perfect sense to you.
@PhilosoFighter2012 The book of Romans is in the New Testament and Romans 1:26-27 is very specific, "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections, for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working that which is unseemly and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."
@PhilosoFighter2012 Your error in Leviticus is due to you not reading the 29th verse: Keep My requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God. There is nothing about an execution. The reference to Mark does not say ‘have intercourse with’ but actually refers to them becoming married, quite a difference.
@giramino You are wrong. 18:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, etc etc....18:30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God. These are his laws and he says that doing anyone who does any of these customs "shall be cut off from among their people."(execution and or banishment)
@PhilosoFighter2012 Being ‘cut off from among their people’ is not ‘execution’ or anything even like that as you have assumed. I really don’t have time to debate or argue the Bible, etc. with you so you need to move somewhere else for that. Perhaps someone else will take the time to help you. I wish you God’s best blessings and hope that someday you will receive the truth and learn the difference between what is right and what is wrong. Or maybe you know but just like to argue I’m not sure.
Christians you are the overwhelming majority. How can there be discrimination against you? This is the equivalent of several school yard bullies pushing around one little kid for ages and getting away with it and when the little kid finally won't take being bullied anymore the bullies complain that the teachers don't let them continue beating him up. unbelievable. you fundamentalists need to evolve.
most christians are the most hypocritical people ever. you tried these same arguments bout blacks, and with womens rights. all it is is your insecure your insecure with yourselves and with your false reality your so afraid that if other people live their lives the way they want then you wont be happy. you aint happy unless your denying thats all fake christian do is deny and make laws. there is only two laws according to God and Jesus love thy God and love thy neighbor.
@bluemew88888 Being born ‘black’ or any other race of people or being born as a male or female beyond the control or the choice of any person has nothing whatsoever to do with the sin of homosexuality. You can’t change or be delivered from the way you were born but you can indeed be saved and delivered from any sin. And while you should certainly love God and love your neighbor, there are many more sins than just the two that you mentioned. You left out the sin of homosexuality. Romans 1:26-27
@giramino homosexuality is not a sin im to tired tonight to reply but if you up for it ill send you a message tomorrow. evidently you deleted 2 or 3 of my post so thats really cool shows that you want to censor out the truth so that the lies and agendas of the right wing conservative fundamentalist can be brain washed into otheres minds. ya couldnt leave a testamony from someone who is gay and knows what they are talking bout on here yet you all think of gays as the villians with an agenda
@bluemew88888 i am a christian. i was born gay its not my fault i love men. you so called christians say its a choice and we shouldnt be allowed to marry each other, or have job security tell me dang it if i worked at say dominoes what does me being gay have to do with my abilities to make pizzas why should i be able to get fired just cause of who i am when it hurts no one. you fake christians should be ashamed of yourselves its your fault and the blood of gay suicides is on your hands. not done
@bluemew88888 No one is born as a homosexual as it would be unfair and unjust for God to demand that someone refrain from a sin he or she had no control over. It would be the same as a parent demanding that their 2 month old child drive a car to school. How absurd. Do not accuse God of being unfair or unjust to try to justify your sin of homosexuality! And do not blaspheme the holy sanctity and ceremony of marriage that God designed to be shared between a man and woman!
You may be human but if you are so willing to follow the bible to such a detail then you might as well be the mindless sheep who follows which ever belief system your country is so fond of. Oyeah one more thing there is a large age gap of Jesus in the bible. Why is this so?
@Changdesu Jesus is actually described as the ‘good Shepard’ Who will never let you down or forsake you. Perhaps you should accept Him as your Savior ask Him to forgive your sins and make you acceptable to God through the Salvation provided as a result of the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. As far as your question about an ‘age gap’ of Jesus in the Bible, I’m not sure. Why do you ask?
Question. When exactly was the bible written and then followed to translate into English? Since the bible is not arranged chronologically the translation from Hebrew to Greek and finally English, the true mean of the word is lost. Assuming that you do not speak a 2nd non-European language, you do not understand how meaning is lost during the translation. Find the history behind the writing of the bible, and there you might find truth behind this.
@Changdesu The books and letters of the Bible were written at various times throughout history. Getting correct meaning and translation is where a Hebrew Lexicon comes in handy. They only cost a few dollars at any Christian book store and can be invaluable for concerns that you seem to have. Buy one and keep it available as you study the Word for explainations to many verses that may not be clear to you.
anyone watching this video needs to watch the documentary FOR THE BIBLE TELLS ME SO, it refutes this video and all it's claims about homosexuality. there are clips of this documentary all over youtube.
@Requiemxtoxinnocence The video you reference was written and produced by homosexuals in an attempt to justify their sin of homosexuality. Nothing new and certainly false information throughout the content. I'm not sure which is more disgusting to God, the lies in an attempt to justify the lust of a man for another man or woman for another woman or their insistence of ignoring God's Word.
@Requiemxtoxinnocence It seems you may be confusing ‘hate’ with ‘correction’. The teaching here is directly from the Word of God, The Bible. And God loves YOU but hates your homosexual behavior. There are those who as children actually believed that their parents hated them because they corrected them when they did something wrong. Some even grow up to be adults and believe that God hates them since they either don’t agree with His rules or that they simply don’t know right from wrong.
So a law that would stop Christian organizations from discriminating against others is somehow silencing Christians? I love the spin Christians put on this stuff. Like how since they can no longer force children to read from the bible in public schools, that is somehow discrimination against Christians. Teaching science instead of creationism is also, in the Christian mind, an attack on Christianity! Gee, what awful torture will they have to suffer next?
"when it comes to sexual conduct"... you leave it out of the work place! we can't have people judging divorced, fornicators or homosexuals at WORK! god may be the 'boss' of your life but at work you have a boss and he/she should be able to fire you if you're hating on people in HIS/HER workplace
He also became the sacrifice for our sins (New Testament) and so we no longer are required to sacrifice lambs at an alter (Old Testament) as Jesus is described as the "Lamb of God". God does not change, but many things were changed in regard to how we approach God, how he deals with sin, forgiveness and too many consistent circumstances to mention here.
Unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: "They are given over to their passions." That means that their spirits are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:18). As a result, they can no longer be aware of the error of what they are doing. Without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.
Blah blah blah... these are just empty words unless you can prove to me that they are true. What makes your religious beliefs more correct over the beliefs of others? Nothing.
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Leviticus 18:22. Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God. He created Adam and then made a woman. This is what God has ordained and it is what is right.
Romans 1:26-27 is very specific, "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections, for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working that which is unseemly and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet".
The man interviewed has obviously never met a transgendered person. They don't "switch" day to day from man to woman. They stick to who they are on the inside.
Another lie is that Bible bookstores will be impacted, when they will not. Religion-based businesses are exempted in ENDA.
Another lie: that Christians are getting arrested because of their beliefs.
Oh yeah, sorry Christians... but your religion doesn't automatically trump civil rights.
Rubbish. Most "successful" ex-gays (and there are VERY few) were bisexual to begin with and learned to emphasize their hetero side. The OVERWHELMING evidence, from years of study, shows that "ex-gay" therapy does not work, with OR without "Christ Jesus".
On Aug 5, 2009 the Amer Pysch Assoc released the results of a 2-year study showing that ex-gay therapy is a failure. They said "There is insufficient evidence that sexual orientation change efforts work."
Im not sure from where your claims were derived since the fact is most of the people being delivered daily from this sin were only homosexual and never even dated the opposite sex. Dozens of individuals are delivered each day nationwide. Youre correct concerning the American Pysch Association therapy, however, the study comes from practitioners, most who are not Christians to begin with and dont understand what must be accomplished to deliver a person from this particular bondage.
First of all, it is not a sin to have a homosexual orientation. Mainstream society does not see it as such (and trust me, conservative christians who DO see it as sin are hardly mainstream these days).
Second, it's ludicrous to think this is bondage. I have never been happier than when I escaped Christianity and lived my life openly. We're called "gay" for a reason! Likewise, this is why practitioners "don't understand"... because they KNOW that GAY IS GOOD.
IantoCross, sin is sin and it is God Himself Who determines what is sin or not sin, not anyone else, whether they be mainstream, Christian, conservative or liberal, democrat or republican, male or female or whatever. It makes no difference whatsoever to God. It is God Who said that homosexuality is an abomination (disgusting) to Him. It is your God given free will choice to commit this sin or not. However, God has also instructed us to be obedient to His Word.
And if homosexuality was something you were 'born with' then would it not be terribly unjust and unfair of God to prohibit a behavior that you had no control over (born with)? No, homosexuality is clearly a choice to sin or not the same as lying, adultery and theft are sins that people choose to commit or not.
Dkgb969, I have never claimed to be a phophet in the first place and the Gospel is never 'outdated'. God never changes. What He said 6 thousand years ago is just a true today. Just remember that it is satan who wants Christians to 'stop' as it interfere's with the devils plans of destroying not only outsiders, but God's own children if allowed. I suspect what you are actually saying is for God to 'change' what He has already said. What God had said is not 'ignorant' nor is it 'outdated'.
The way we now come to Him has changed, not God or His Word. The same is true for food preparation, garments, sin and all the commandments of God, even thousands of years ago. The death penalty for sin that God imposed in the Old Testament is still the same in the New Testament. However, Jesus (New Testament) received the death penalty imposed by God in our behalf.
So does God intend for us to always walk to church? No, His intention is that we go to church and that did not change. A more realtime example is when Jesus died on the cross, within a few seconds after His death there was an earthquake and the veil of the temple (several feet thick) was torn completely signifying the entrance to God's Holy Temple was now forever changed due to His death and now we have entrance to God through Jesus. Does God still expect us to worship Him? Of course.
Also consider that during this time in history that this particular group walked everywhere they went. Then consider that later in history God told another group of people, "Be sure to get on your horses and ride to church each Sunday". And then today He said, "Be sure to get in your car and drive to church each Sunday". The fact that He commanded everyone through the years to go to church each Sunday remains unchanged. How we approach or arrive at church changes, not God's original commands.
Due to limited space here, I'll try to be brief. By His own admission, God does not change (Malachi 3:6, James 1:17) and God is not a liar (Numbers 23:19). Due to the birth, death and resurrection of His Son, Jesus many circumstances changed, however God has never changed and never will. Jesus came to fulfill the law not change it. For example, consider that God told a certain group of people at a certain time in history, "Be sure that you walk to church every Sunday".
I really don't see gay people rushing to work in a place that spews this much hate against them. I don't christians have to worry about gays trying to infiltrate their churches. There are so many things they would rather be doing!
"No religious person should be indicted or condemed for abiding by thier religious conviction"
If this is true then you are saying that the 9/11 hijackers were right to fly planes into the World Trade Builings because it was based on thier religious convictions.
Hate is hate, is doesnt matter if you try to diguise it in relgious texts or call it faith, hate is still hate.
You need to discern what is being said. Religious freedom is the core of freedom of speech. If a persons belief put another life in danger, such as the event of 9/11 then they have no right.
Hate is hate, yes but not to hire a homosexual as a pastor in a church is not hate. He is simply not qualified.
To disagree with someones way of living is not hate either. It is just a point of view.
Freedom from religion is the core of free speech, other wise america would have been a relgious monarchy like the european nations. It is the move away from religion that brings freedom!
Not many homosexuals would be a pastor i assume, but the fact he is not or she is not qualified is because of the prejudice of the scriptue, the person is not at fault for there homosexuality.
And it is on what basis you disagree with a persons lifestyle, for christians it is simple, there god hates gays!
nonbeliever: Freedom from religion is not the core of free speech. Simply because if that was true then we do not have free speech, ever. I believe that we have in many contries free speech, but we are moving away from it, when we tell people they are not allowed to believe in whatever they want to believe.
You are simply suggesting that the Republican can join the democrat party.
You argue out of ignorance, God does not hate homosexual people, He wants to save them as any other sinner.
Wich part of the bible mentions free speech or democracy?? Only dogmatic worship is preached in the bibble, not freedom
You are not allowed to believe what you want, you are not allowed to believe that black people are inferrior to white are you, or that men are better than women.
Freedom to quote and preach scripture that is considered homophobic and offensive, that is not freedom that is freedom to hate.
God does hate homosexuals read your own book, it says it in Leviticus!!
nonbeliever: The Bible speaks freedom first and foremost, freedom from sin, from death, from the torments that are in this world, freedom to live a life abundantly, everlasting with no fear or worries. It is the Christian faith that allowed democracy to develop, this is a known fact. No Christian today force anyone to believe anything they dont want to believe.
And no, God does not hate homosexuals, God only hates sin.
Was it also christian faith that slaughterd the Native Americans? Christianity is about freedom but only for those who agree, those who we dont agree with well they will burn in hell, thats freedom to you. As a european i know that it was the french revolution and the Enlightenment that lead to modern democracy. Both events were moves away from the opresion of christianity, thats just history, its a fact. When did god say that people should be allowed to vote or have representation?
nonbeliever: There is a difference beween theory and practical application of the theory. Many people troughout history have been caught in a concept of their own ideas rather than to adopt the true values of the ideology. It is true that these held a belief in God but mere belief is not enough, their actions is proof that they did not have a true understanding of their faith.
The French revolution is also known as the Regime of Terror, democracy as btw far older.
Known as the Regime of Terror by Monarchists maybe but history is subjective. To some Nelson Mandella is a terrorist, to most he is not, you can twist anything.
I ment democracy in industrail europe, i know the greeks had a form of democracy and the romans, odd how they had such freedom and democracy with out jesus. Women in there society were respected far more than in the monothiestic religions. Why is god a he, why did he have a son, thats seems a very male dominated story to me!
nonbeliever: The french revolution resulted in the death of over 300 000 people in its 3 year existance. So you admit that democracy did not begin in the french revolution, so where then is your argument?
Regarding the gender of God, its not an issue any christian is concerned with, God is God and not male or female. God created male and female in His image.
And no, women were not respected more in rome than in Israel.
As i have already stated I am referring to Democracy in industrail europe!!
Yes a lot died but those who died would stand in the way of the fredom and equality the revolution stood for.
BTW the pillgrims and first western settlers killed far more than 300 000 native americans, yet americans always seem to cast a judging eye over the rest of worlds actions!
You state that god has no gender then use the term "Him" surley you should say "it" if it has no gender!
The french revolution did not create a time of peace and quiet, in the beginning they did remove those that were the cause of oppression, but later they became the oppressors themselves. They killed countless innocents for no reason whatsoever. The revolution inspired the Russian revolution that led to 9 million peoples demise and the beginning of communism that have killed many millions more. If you look in a history book you will see that the french revolution is called the Regime of Terror.
If your talking about the red revolution of october 1917 only 4 people died!!!! Later on under Stalin many tens of millions perished but the revolution itself was not a blood bath, the opposite in fact.
nonbeliever: The revolution that Lenin lead and began killed about 9 million people. Stalin killed up to and about 30 million people, the numbers are somewhat uncertain, then we have Mao and Paul Pot who also have killed millions of people, perhaps the last two were not part or inspired by the french revolution but they were inspired by the Russian and the spread of communism.
I dont see your point i know communism killed many millions, and your numbers on Lenin are way way off, in the 7 years he was in charge about 2 million die in the civil war between red and white russians, not the revolution!
nonbeliever: The point is that you seem to believe that only people who believes in God do evil, and you blame God for it as well. To say that because you do not believe in God therefore He does not exist is a fallacy. I believe that you do not believe in God because you do not want to be responsible for your actions, you want to be "free". I guess it is your right. Then you question those that believe in God and what our motives for doing good and helping the poor. Why?
WRONG i do not believe in god because there is no empirical evidence for such a beings existance, like i dont believe in Trolls or Unicorns either, same reason
Why are trying to question my actions and saying i dont want to be held responsable for my actions, who the fuck are you too lecture me about responsablity?
I think you only only believe in god because you are a scared weak minded person, who needs a god or creator to give his life structure, you take the easy answer to lifes questions!
nonbeliever: I take the answer that is the most logical the way I see it. I cannot believe that nothing caused everything, it is not what we observe. I did not mean to insult you in any way, but if you remove the cause for everything you have no cause for anything. Whatever action you take or I take is pointless, the life we lead is aswell pointless and ultimatly death is meaningless. This is the consequence of having no cause for our existance.
The origins of the universe can never be known, no one knows how we came to be but we can link up and prove certain steps of part of the journey, like evolution.
I never said nothing created anything, your mind works like that of a child, the idea that i believe nothing is not only false but shows your ignorance toward non-believers, if i dont believe in your god then of course i believe nothing!!!
Not knowing the answer of the universes' origin is better than having the wrong answer!!
nonbeliever: The argument is not against a particular God, but if there was a cause or not a cause. The comment that I think like a child I take as a compliment, means that my logic is simple enough and logic enough. If you do not believe in a cause of the universe, then you must believe that there is no cause, you cannot have both a cause and the lack of a cause.
You are looking at the universe through a human perspective, through human logic, the most logical thing to do is to say, i have no idea how or why the universe is here!
The idea of causes and purpose are human ideas that may be relavent to a thing like the universe, we do not understand it so how can we apply are human logic to try and explain it.
Its like how we put human behaviour on to animals and say its filthy for a pig to roll in mud, but it is perfectly normal to a pig!!!
nonbeliever: How do you as a human look at anything as a non human? You are using a mixed logic here, you apply my arguments to your universe but you do not accept my arguments for God?
But tell me, do you believe there had to be a cause for anything caused?
You cany lokk at it as a none human so dont try, just admit you dont know!!! Thats what i just said!!!
If you mean does everything happen for a reason, then no. But if something has been caused then yes as far as humans can tell it had to be caused by something, but with reguard to the universe we do not know how or if it was caused, wether deliberately or not deliberately.
I know the bible is wrong because it makes so many mistakes, wrong about astronomy, wrong about the age of the planet, wrong on moral issues like homosexuality or rape, wrong about women and thier role in society, wrong about justice and legal systems, wrong about the intitial creation of human life, wrong about geography (wind especially), wrong about slavery, wrong about sacrafice, wrong about human biology ( humans cant live too 900, it simpily impossible) and wrong about human nature!!!
nonbeliever: I know that you are in disagreement with the Bible, but it does not mean that it is wrong on the areas you disagree with.
There is no evidence for an old earth, it is based on faith.
If the Bible is correct, how can it be wrong in moral issues? The women in the Bible have a great role, they are just not leaders of the church, both cannot lead so there is no problem there either.
Human nature, the Bible defines it as we are all sinners. We all break the law of God.
The bible is not correct, thats the point. Do you believe children should be killed for dishonoring thier parents, of homosexuals should be killed, or that if a woman can't be heard calling for help when she is being raped that she should be killed along with the rapist!!!!
Why cant woman lead the church and if both cant why is women who cant lead and not men, why cant both lead men and woman do almost everything else the other sex can do.
I hope you do not see women as they are in the bible!
nonbeliever: I believe your understanding of the Bible is not accurate. The Bible teaches that man and woman are equals, but they have their roles in the family and in society. If you disregard the Bible you come to the old world view of woman of them being lesser. This world view was what Jesus adressed in a people that had left the ideal. Do not confuse Gods laws with what God allows in His mercy.
Eery one interperates the bible differenty, thats wht you have so many different sects of christianity. Like all books it means different things to differnt people.
The roles it gives out are not equal roles, the males have higher roles and are put before woman, if you continue to deny that i will have to conclude reasonable debate is not possible with you.
Women were revered befor the old testament, more than after, they had female gods and females were not pigeon holed like they in the bible
nonbeliever: So your claim that pagans treated their women better than they did in the old testament. Now lets see, have you looked at the Egyptian mythos or the reliefs on the walls, how the women were depicted? Tiny, even the wife of pharaoh only reached him to the knees. Yet in the Bible, the women were given the title of prophetess, they were in charge in the home of education of the children. I guess equality is in the eye of the beholder.
Last time i looked, woman are blamed as the reason for all sin, are they not. Does it not say in genisis that eve a woman, tricked by satan and then she corrupted adam a man. Does it not say that becuase of this women are to be submissive to men??
If thats you verson of equal, frankly you are a danger to women!!
nonbeliveer: Eve was tempted, Adam was the one who ate with his eyes open. Paul says that sin came into the world because of one man, Adam.
To be submissive means not that the man should be a tyrant, it is about the woman giving the man the respect he needs to be a man. Not to treat him as a child to pamper or be against him, but to be together next to. You misunderstand christianity, its about being a servant to eachother, all parts are to look for the best in eachother.
Whats with the servant theme? Why not just be 2 equals instead of 2 servants?
Women are not equal in the christain faith, reguardless of your personal interpretation of scripture, i judge your religion by the collective " church ".
This is the perception that many have, why? The church doesn't reguard women as equal to men but under men, a priest even told me that when i was 15.
nonbeliever: "i judge your religion by the collective " church "." so if I judge you by the standards of Hitler who was an atheist, would that be justified? No, so then why do you judge God based on humans? What right do you have anyway to judge your maker? The church of old may not have regarded women, but God does value the woman very high. Just as high as God regards man, if you refuse to see this that is on you, but to accuse God for something He did not do is not logical.
Hitler wa snot athiest, he belived that the aryan race was destined to rule the world because they possed superhuman abiltiys and intelligentce, try again, maybe you would like to compare me to Stalin, or what about Mao? Athiests are not an organised church but individuals, they do not do things in the name of athiesm.
God was created by humans, without human no god.
"What right do you have anyway to judge your maker?" Its called free speach, i know you christians dont like it, NOT MY MAKER!!!
nonbeliever: Hitler was an atheist very much so, he was also an occultist, he did not believe in creation but in evolution and thus he embraced the concept of the master race.
Stalin and Mao were atheists also so there you have it, when you judge me because of a few men, why are you against the other way?
Humans cannot think of anything new than what already exist.
Oh I like free speach, but it was only a question to help you think, but you avoided it by claiming the right of free speach.
nonbeliever: Just because I view women as equal worth and value and would treat them with respect and not view them as an object of fantasy, does not mean that Im not worthy of debating. The Bible tells us to treat the women gently, to be kind to them, to love them as we love ourselves, to honor them and protect them. They are weaker in strength, but that does not mean they are less than us, we need them and they need us its a symbiosis. Now you may disagree with me but that is on you.
As a christian(who i assume takes the bible literaly) you cant see women as equal worth because your holy book tells you that women are to be submissive to you! How are they equal?
"The Bible tells us to treat the women gently, to be kind to them"
Women can look after themselves, they have there own brains and everything you know. I think you have confused women with children, children need to be protected women can protect themselves. By what you say i can tell you see women as less than men.
nonbeliever: I do not view them as less than me in any way. Do you know what it means to be subjective? Can you have two leaders in a home? If the kid ask mum, she says yes but you said no, would the child have any guidance? It is called parenting, true Im no dad yet. Im not to be a tyrant but a loving leader that treats my wife with the love and respect she deserves, and she does the same to me. There is nothing wrong with that.
nonbeliever: God presented HImself as Jesus the Son of God, why He did this I do not know, I can suspect that the world have always been male dominated and in order to reach people a male God was the only way. Now its only speculation. It is still not an issue and to call God an it would be to undermine Him as a person. The word God is a male word btw, I guess this is one reason why we call God a Him also.
nonbeliever: Pilgrims and many other people that had a wrong understanding did many wrong things that they will be accountable for when the time comes. God is not merciless, He allows things to happen in hope for us to change to be changed by His will and Character. When it happens, and it does God rejoice for another soul is saved, when it dont and that happens in most cases, then that man or woman will have to answer for their mistakes when judgement comes.
Nonbeliever: If you ask what part of the Bible, most of what Jesus said, freedom from bondage, to be conqerors over sin and so on. Read the Gospels, they are all about freedom, speaking of the 10 commandments also, the Law of Freedom. If you keep them you are free from everything. Now it all comes down to this, what is freedom? Is it to do whatever you want? No, freedom is to be able to do good against eachother, to think and believe what you want. You do not see the severety of whats happening.
The gospels are about faith and only if you have faith are you ment to be free, if you do not have faith, its hell for you.
"to think and believe what you want." this is not freedom but anarchy. What if i think i have the right to kill christians is that ok then, what if i decide that my god has told me that christians are evil and deserve an eternal torture for thier faith, i guess that would be ok for you then?
nobeliever: There is again difference from thinking and doing. You are free to think what you want, but you are not free to do what you want. To do part is the anarchy. To think is the liberty. Christianity is about exemplifying the Character of Jesus, did He kill anyone when He was here on earth? No, He healed the sick, ate with the sinners and tax collectors, He did everything to help those that needed help. That is Christianity, most christians have missed the core of the gospel.
You assume jesus was on the planet then, St. Paul said otherwise. Not untill the first gospel was writen 40 years after jesus' death was thier any record of him ever existing. Apart from Paul who wrote about jesus but never mentioned that jesus was a man who lived on the earth and performed miracles!
nobeliever: You should read the book of hebrews, written by Paul, most likely. Truth be told, there is no point in arguing with you I cannot convince you with words or with arguments. All I can say is to study more closely history and Christendom and most of all who Jesus is and what He did and is doing now. His death and resurrection is what truly will set you free, free from death and free from sin. Invite Him into your heart and experience the real peace that only God can offer.
You do not know me, you know nothing about me, not even my name or what i look like, yet you feel you have a right to inform me that i live in sin, and death. Do not even try any of your preaching on me, i have heard it millions of times an it still makes me cringe!!!
I am at peace, and a heart is only a muscle that pumps blood round the body, dont insist you are more free or at peace than me, thats is pure arrogance!!!
nonbeliver: It is true that I do not know you, but It is also true that you do not live according to the laws of God, this is for all mankind. I do not intend to preach, but it is my duty to inform you of the truth, wether you believe it to be true or not does not matter, the truth is truth no matter opinions. A person that is in Christ is more free than any other person, that is if the BIble and Jesus are correct, but based on that assumption then yes mankind is trapped in sin and in death.
If thats your view of mankind why dont you leave mankind then? Go and be with your god-kill yourself . Then you will be with god in heaven, so just kill yourself. You are clearly so much better than the rest of us so you need not bother wasting time down here with us mortals, go and be with god then!!!
nonbeliever: Why would I want to do that? God have a purpose for everyone, my job is to help those that need help those that suffer, to spread the good news in a time where no one want to hear it because they fear the consequences.
If you think me better than the rest of us then that is your judgement not mine and I strongly disagree. I have not judged anyone I have simply stated the historical facts of the matter, humans have proven not able to govern themselves, myself included.
You would do that so you can be with god. Simple, you long for a time when you can be with your god, so why wait go now and be with him, if you KNOW he exists whats the risk?
You say you help people who suffer, what is your motive, because thats what god wants, you only help people for god, not because they need help! Maybe your motivation is that god will reward you if you help the sick or the poor, if so are you not selfish and doing it for yourself and not those in need?
nonbeliever. I help those that need help because they need help, there is no other motive behind it, yes I do what God want me to do because of Him. He encourage my love for people, He is the reason and the source of my love, for any persons love. I cannot help but help, it is not because of a reward but it is because of Love that I love.
Now Im not saying that my love is perfect in any way, it is simply there and will grow, because of God who makes love grow.
nonbeliever: To be with God, is something we, all of us, have the opportunity to be right now. God is everywhere, all knowing, ever present, we do not need to go anywhere to be with God, we simply need to open our eyes, our heart and accept Him into our lives and live with Him every day. We are waiting for Jesus to come back, there is no need to end our lives as life is a gift from God and must be valued. All of human kind is holy for God, and most precious, this is why we still are here.
nonbeliever: Sin is supernatural, there is no explaination to it, nor can we humans understand it or the ramifications. We may today have somewhat understanding of the destructive powers it holds, when societies crumble and families are ruined.
Many Christians believe in strange doctrines that the Bible does not teach or support. The doctrine of eternal torture in fire is one of the fallacies that comes from greek philosophy and was adopted around 300AD by the RCC then to protestantism.
nonbeliever: My definition of good is the life of Jesus, what He did was good and we should do the same. He did not condem anyone and He always sought the best of those around Him. He is the Truth the Way and the Life, you may define Christianity as simple as that, Jesus. If anyone claim to be a Christian but do not live a life as Jesus, then their claim is for nothing. Ofcourse we are all at different stages in life and God is working on all the hearts of humanity and draws them to Him.
Jesus was a teacher who lived over 2000 years is a different time and culture to me and you. There was no electricity, no cars, very few scientific principles, it would have been easy in such a primitaive culture to trick people who are prone to believing superstition.
The fact you acknowledge many christians dont know thier own faith speaks volumes! This only suggests to me that it is man made, a god would make his will very very clear surely, yet there are over 1200 recognised religions!!
"You assume jesus was on the planet then" are we contradicting ourselves, "Jesus was a teacher who lived over 2000 years" there is much evidence to support the existance of Jesus, more so than there was of Julius Cesar and Nero.
To assume that the world in the past were primitive is to assume evolution, we know for a fact that they were far more advanced than we give them credit for.
A Loving God, would not force anyone to believe in Him, or He would not be loving. Your argument fails.
i never said jesus was not a human, only that Paul never mentions him as a human, quite a big detail to leave out!
I know he was a teacher than lived at this time but no evidence for virgin birth, devine powers, the details of his death, ressurection, and so on!
You have to define in the past, evolution takes place over millions of years not thousands (macro evolution that is) Millions of years ago people were primative, thousands of years ago they were very advanced!
Jesus was both human and God, He have a dual nature. God became flesh, this is also what Paul writes, and Paul writes also that this God is Jesus.
The Bible testify clearly that Jesus did have powers and the virgin birth and so on, but clearly we pick and choose what sources we use is that not so? :p
They believe that evolution took place over million of years, but they have no emperical data to support their theory, thus its just a faith like any other.
Jesus' story is almost word for word the same as that of the egyptian god horus. And very simillar to krishna and dyonisis, they all came befor jesus.
Why arent the gopels consistant, some mention virgin birth some dont, some give details of miracles some dont, if god was telling them what to write why did he tell them differnt versions of the same story??
Evolution took place over Billions of years, (macro evolution) that is. The evidence for evolution is stacked in mountains.
nonbeliever: The story of Jesus is unique, it is not part of egyption mythology or any other mythos, this simple fact is easy to establish. The theory of theosophy was created by Petrova Blawatsky in the mid 1800, it is nothing more than mystics and occultism it has no foundation in archeology or historical records.
The gospel is not only consistant but it fills in more details and builds upon eachother. God was not telling them what to write.
Jesus is not unique, the Egyptian book of the dead gives a clear account of Horus who has almost exactly the same story as jesus but 1000 years earlier. Krishna in India very similar 800 years befor jesus and Dyonisis in Greece 300 years befor jesus, NOT UNIQUE AT ALL!!!
Jesus fits nicely into the hero pattern of mystical figures throughout history, he is just an updated version!!
nonbeliever: You should get new information besides Zeitgeist that has some credibility. There is no notable simularities between Jesus or any of the other so called "christs". There is only one Jesus Christ and that was He who walked the earth about 2000 years ago. As I have said earlier, you are simply quoting doctrines from people hating Jesus, so of course they will deny anything about Jesus that is unique.
You are in denial and ignorant of the facts, a common trait among christians, you will have to face facts that jesus is not unique in his story, simple as that!
nonbeliever: I do not have to believe in something that is not proven to be true. The stories of Horus, Dionysos and the rest have nothing simular with Jesus, even if they did it would not prove anything. Jesus was the only one that rose from the dead and it is the only Faith that makes the claims it does. Now if Christianity is correct then nothing else matters, if its not correct then nothing matters at all. It is called Pascalls wager, perhaps you have heard of it? I
Yes i have heard of it, its why most people believe in god. They have nothing to lose in a sense, but the bible does say you have to know god and not just pretend. If you only believe in god just in case the word to describe such a person is cowaerd.
Im not going to go on about Horus an Dyonisis as i too belive they are false, however the point still stands that the jesus story is not original.
" I do not have to believe in something that is not proven to be true"
nonbeliever: But there are much evidence for the existance of God even though I cannot prove His existance. If God was disproven however that would be something else.
I do not know if Pascals wager is the biggest reason why people believe in God, its not the reason I believe in God it is a very logical argument anyway. But you are right, Knowing God is what Christianity is all about, knowing Jesus.
Give an example of evidence for the god in the bible.
Their is no evidence otherwise what is the point of faith, faith is a substitute for knowledge if you have knowledge then you dont need faith.
Pascals wager i think is the biggest reason, just incase can be a very powerful argument, you have nothing to loose in sense, but you loose everything, humans are genetically programed to make thier future better than thier past, christians do not want this they long for end of humanity, so sad.
nonbeliever: You do not believe in the concept of God, nor are you open to the possibility of a God, so how can i give you evidence for something you discard by default? First you need to address the question if everything just came to be without a cause, if you say yes to that then there is little I can do to help you see reason. If you say no, then you are believing that everything had to have a cause. From there we can reason ourselves to what this cause is.
"There is no evidence for an old earth, it is based on faith"
The most idiotic thing you have said. How can be so painfuly arogant, do you think thier is a massive conspiracey between the 93% of Geo-Scientists who say the planet is between 4.5 and 5 billion years old.
How could the continents drift apart in just 6000 years? How do you form the grand cannion in 6000 years? Why does Carbon dating done on the radiation decay of uranium point to 4.5 - 5 billion years old?
nonbeliever: There is no evidence for an old earth, if there is let me know. If you are refering to dating methods, not a single one of them gives any reliable information or date. Did you know, we cannot date rocks? We date rocks based on the index fossils, wich we cannot date, but date nontheless based on what rock layer we find it in. This is circular reasoning and does not cut it. Not a single dating method is working, but yet accepted as fact. It is mere fiction. Do not be a fool? Right.
No i said we date the Uranium Radiation in the rocks not the rocks themselves, even though you can date rocks to a certain extent but not billions of years. It is the Radiation that gives us the answers, and it is quite accurate 100 million years here and there. Uranium radiation doesnt lie, unlike men with wild imaginations..!!
nonbeliever: But the radiation is not constant or set in stone, there is no evidence that says that the radiation only came from one source. It has been proven without a doubt that radiation and decay rates can be manipulated in labratories, so then we have again no assurance of the dates of the earth. Did you know that Robert Gentry have discovered Polonium Halos, that demonstrates that the earth was created quickly? Also on the moon have they found isotopes with very short halflifes.
nonbeliever: Oh I do, if only atheist was just as sceptical to science as they were to the Bible. No Im sceptical to the theory of evolution for a reason, I have experience with mass manipulations and this is what I see, I believe events and time have managed to prevent the truth to be preached. Did you know for example, that Huxley the buldog of Darwin was in charge of deciding what was science and what was not? So he discarded all evidence against evolution. How honest of him.
Yet you fail to see the the failing of the bible, you are point blank refusing to accept that thier are a number of inacurate and false statements in the bible then?
I accept that science is not perfect because it made by humans, but humans are all we are and all we have!!!
nonbeliever: I do not believe there are no discrepencies in the Bible, it was afterall penned by man, inspired by God but its not an argument against the BIble or God, only God is infallabe and He have made it clear through His Word what we need to know.
Well you state this as though it was a proven fact, please tell me your evidnce that shoes the men who wrote the bible were inspired by god, is it because they told you they wre inspired by god, so it must be true? What if i said i was inspired god, you wouldnt believe me would you.
nonbeliever: I have said before that the prophecies in the Bible are evidence of inspiration and of God. No human can tell the future with 100% accuracy, yet in the Bible we have prophecy upon prophecy that have been fullfilled with 100% accuracy.
IF you claim to be inspired, you would also need to demonstrate it, do you have the gift of prophecy? Do you keep the commandments of God? This is the criteria that God have given us.
nonbeliever: The propehcies in Daniel and Revelation is evidence for the God of the Bible. Not a single other religion have anything that is even remotely close to any of it.
History have proven that mankind, even though they long for something better, are incapable of making it happen. Now it is not sad to believe that only God can make it work, what is sad is the more and more advanced methods mankind have learned to kill eachother.
So you are claiming mankind has not improved since 6000 years ago, what about internet, cars, the wheel, heart transplants, pennicilin, tv,telephone.....should i go on
nonbeliever: You said that we had improved and you were not talking about science. The last 200 years we have improved in the ways of science yes, but overall mankind have not improved morally or otherwise. We still believe in general, that conflict is the answer to conflict, wicked people still do wicked things, and in all honesty and truthfullness, we have gotten better at it, meaning we are more skilled at making war, at killing eachother. This is not improvement.
Morals are subjective, maybe you cant see improvement but last time i checked we dont make children work in factories anymore like they did 200 years ago. Homosexuals are no longer in danger of being killed ( well, not as much danger), the mentally and physically disabled are no longer cast out from society, and although racism is still very much alive it has been expelled from the mainstream an marginalised. Oh yea and ( in the west) slavery is now ilegle, so you cant see the improvement
nonbeliever: "Morals are subjective..." two ways we can deal with this, 1) Is anything objective, 2) Is it right to torture humans. If the first statement is wrong, then the second statement is correct. It may not be correct for every human, especialy not the poor guy being tortured. Was the holocaus correct? If morals are subjective then yes it was.
Btw, there are more slavery today than there have ever been in history of time combined. No we have not evolved at all. Jesus is first on morals.
The Holocaust was moral to Adolf Hitler. It is what the majority agree is moral that sets up our moral footing. The popular concenus decides everything.
Question - If God came to you and told you that Pedophilia was now moral and good, would it be alright then ? If god makes morals why not?
nonbeliever: Again its not relevant if God does this or does that when He have already set the rules since forever, God does not change, nor does His Law.
So you agree with the holocaust being right, is that not a horrible belief? You can then justify everything, then you have no laws and you live in anarchy. Is that a better way than that of freedom?
God does not change you say, so why is the bible in its 5th edition then, you know the "word of god" has been chaged many times, you are deep in denial about almost everything.
Quote where i said i thought the holocaust was moral? Did you not acuse me of twisting your words befor, an now you try to suggest that i am a sort of NAZI, a common christian tactic, all athiests must be either NAZIs or Communists, is that it?
Nonbeliever: The Word of God have not changed, I do not know why you beleive this fallacy. They discovered in the Kumran caves the dead sea scrolls wich were 98% simular than the King James Version. The Bible did not change since the time of Jesus, and Jesus used that Bible, so why assume it changed?
"The Holocaust was moral to Adolf Hitler. It is what the majority agree is moral that sets up our moral footing. The popular concenus decides everything"
nonbeliever: "the point still stands that the jesus story is not original" you have not established such a point, both the story of dionysos and horus does not resemble the story of Jesus enough to be even considered. You should watch Zeitgeist debunked. It is all part of Sophism that was founded by an anti christian occultist Petrova Blawatsky.
So your now claiming the Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Greeks are made up to dis-prove christianity, do you have no respect for cultures that do not believe in your god!!
The Book of the Dead was writen long befor the Old Testament, Horus' story is clearly recorded in it, and has striking similarites to the life of jesus, Virgin birth, miracles, death and resurection after 3 days.
I know that none of that happened but it was still recorded befor jesus.
Nonbeliever: You are misquoting the book of the dead, Horus did not have a virgin birth.
You really really should look into it before you continue to make claims that are not supported. Or if you want to prove me wrong site sources. Provide primary sources that talk of this. Zeitgeist is not a primary source.
nonbeliever: Hehe, how do you know that no one has ever had a virgin birth? Would not be anything special about the birth of Christ then, no its a matter of faith here, neither can prove or disprove the other, so to say its a fact that there was no virgin birth is not possible. You may have the faith in the possibility, and you may have the evidence on your side, but it still does not change the fact that it may be the case that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary. Wich I believe. :)
Virgins by thier definition have not had sexual intercoursemi sure you knew that though. Ergo if a female had not had her egg fertilised by a male sperm she can not possibly be pregnant, so yes i have enough evidence to say virgin birth is made up. It is a pardox un to it self like "Innocent Murderer"
Nonebeliver: But if there is a God who can do miracles, surely it is possible that a woman can become pregnant without intercourse. Just because the pig gets food every day, does not mean he will get food everyday.
In the realm of God, nothing is impossible. So you have no arugment.
I have no reason that there is a god who can do miracles and i have never said there is, so it is not possible for a woman give birth without fertilisation by a male sperm, end of disscusion, think about what you are saying.
So if nothing is impossible in the "realm of god" then how do you now it is impossible that god doesnt exsist, you are claiming that you know everything, are you not.
nonbeliever: Your "end of discussion" only reveals your closed mindedness on the subject, not even to be open for the possibility that if there is a God then miracles are not impossible. You want me to think about what I am saying? Well ofcourse I do, but you need to be less biased.
I have never claimed that I know emperical that God exist, but I have enough faith to know personally that God exist. I do not claim all knowing, that is what atheism does.
Totlay wrong athiests claim doubt and scepical thinking, the opposite of all knowing, it is you who is claim to know the unknowable, and base it on very weak evidence.
I can only accept what can be explained in human yerms, somethings cant be explain in human terms like the universe, but pregnancy is easily explainable.
Nonbeliever: Check the dictionary, atheism asserts there is no god. You may have a personal opinion on the matter but that does not change the definition. Further you can define atheism as a religion, as it is many who have a religious zeal and defends it with tooth and nail. Yet atheism is the worst form of belief as everything is permissable.
If you can only accept what can be explained or seen, are you not then discounting the electron, the atom, the quarks and the strong and weak force?
All of those things have been explained, so you just killed your own point.
You know nothing of athiesm, athiests do not have a code of belief structure, it is about the individual. Everything is permissable in christianity as you claim your god can do anything, do you not? Think of the people god has murderd in the bible, god sees murder as moraly ok, does he not? Or is it a case of do as i say not do as i do?
nonbeliever: Nonbeliever, an explaination does not mean you have seen it. I asked have you seen an electron, and I may add, with your naked eye? No, so why do you believe in it?
I know all there is to know about atheism, I have read the dictionary. It is a system of belief that in the end have no laws or rules because nothing eventually matters. If you sit back and ponder it a bit then ask yourself, what does it matter to you what you do, for when you die the memory of yourself is gone.
there is plenty of proof, check out some books or videos on the subject. Both DNA and bone/skeletal remains point to the fact that we shared the same primate ancestor. 99.99% of the scientific community (which is really the only community that is relevant in this debate) accepts evolution as a fact based on the existing evidence.
Im sure this is your belief but that does not matter. you Cannot argue out of popularity, just because majority of scientists believes the theory doesnt make it true.
Besides, similarities does not mean by default common ancestry. It may mean that we have been made out from the same Creator, fact is it doesnt prove anything. They are just similarities.
Hmm, you obviously refused to do any research. I was just trying to put forth that there is PLENTY of evidence to the theory of evolution, and yes, in the SCIENTIFIC community if 99% of the field accepts a theory, then they work on other projects with a basis in that theory as being true. So far, all biological, geological, and other sciences support the Theory of Evolution. If this is a scientific debate then Evolution has to be accepted as true, if this is just a philosophical debate...
I have not argued that there are no evidence for evolution, there is probably a lot of it too but there is also a lot of evidence for the opposite. So in the end it comes down to what do you want to believe, if you want to believe you came from animals then you are free to believe that but please do not come and say its a proven fact just because some men in white suits says so.
Why are people punished for doing good?Does God punish people for doing good?
liw213 2 months ago
@liw213 The prophet warns in Isaiah 5:20, “What sorrow for those who say that evil is good and good is evil, that dark is light and light is dark, that bitter is sweet and sweet is bitter.” In the last days (most experts believe to be either now or very soon approaching) those who are evil will attempt to turn everything around in order to deceive as many as satan can gather to be with him instead of God. God rewards goodness and would never change good for evil under any circumstances.
giramino 2 months ago
Im against anyone having their right to speak freely whether ts something I dont agre with taken away or turned into hate speech the Gov is getting out of control big time we are going to end p like China soon hope all who support this are happy when were like China, no thanks
laysea65 5 months ago
amen God is against theives, drunkards, fornicators just as much as he against homosexuality God did not create anyone that way satan did but anyone can be forgiven if they repent turn away from sin and accept Jesus Christ as their savior
laysea65 5 months ago
Ok this is a little bit far, that's so discriminatory
moliver872 7 months ago
WOOOOOW!!! They are going to attack ENDA??? REALLY?? This movie is absolutely sick. Just rotten to the core and it is so obvious they want to totally dismantle all rights for GLBT people so they can treat them however they want. I am literally sick to my stomach. I am gay, and I was fired from my job for being gay and I sued my employer!!! After a long court battle, I won. It was geat, and they deserved it but it was because of ENDA. God Bless ENDA! Im so glad these laws are passed and safe.
GAYPRIDE1985 8 months ago
@PhilosoFighter2012 Let's talk again on judgement day. May God bless you with the desire to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior so that all this and God's Word the Bible will make perfect sense to you.
giramino 8 months ago 4
@PhilosoFighter2012 The book of Romans is in the New Testament and Romans 1:26-27 is very specific, "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections, for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working that which is unseemly and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."
giramino 8 months ago
@PhilosoFighter2012 Your error in Leviticus is due to you not reading the 29th verse: Keep My requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God. There is nothing about an execution. The reference to Mark does not say ‘have intercourse with’ but actually refers to them becoming married, quite a difference.
giramino 8 months ago
@giramino You are wrong. 18:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, etc etc....18:30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God. These are his laws and he says that doing anyone who does any of these customs "shall be cut off from among their people."(execution and or banishment)
PhilosoFighter2012 8 months ago
@PhilosoFighter2012 Being ‘cut off from among their people’ is not ‘execution’ or anything even like that as you have assumed. I really don’t have time to debate or argue the Bible, etc. with you so you need to move somewhere else for that. Perhaps someone else will take the time to help you. I wish you God’s best blessings and hope that someday you will receive the truth and learn the difference between what is right and what is wrong. Or maybe you know but just like to argue I’m not sure.
giramino 8 months ago 4
Christians you are the overwhelming majority. How can there be discrimination against you? This is the equivalent of several school yard bullies pushing around one little kid for ages and getting away with it and when the little kid finally won't take being bullied anymore the bullies complain that the teachers don't let them continue beating him up. unbelievable. you fundamentalists need to evolve.
PhilosoFighter2012 8 months ago
most christians are the most hypocritical people ever. you tried these same arguments bout blacks, and with womens rights. all it is is your insecure your insecure with yourselves and with your false reality your so afraid that if other people live their lives the way they want then you wont be happy. you aint happy unless your denying thats all fake christian do is deny and make laws. there is only two laws according to God and Jesus love thy God and love thy neighbor.
bluemew88888 9 months ago
@bluemew88888 Being born ‘black’ or any other race of people or being born as a male or female beyond the control or the choice of any person has nothing whatsoever to do with the sin of homosexuality. You can’t change or be delivered from the way you were born but you can indeed be saved and delivered from any sin. And while you should certainly love God and love your neighbor, there are many more sins than just the two that you mentioned. You left out the sin of homosexuality. Romans 1:26-27
giramino 9 months ago
@giramino homosexuality is not a sin im to tired tonight to reply but if you up for it ill send you a message tomorrow. evidently you deleted 2 or 3 of my post so thats really cool shows that you want to censor out the truth so that the lies and agendas of the right wing conservative fundamentalist can be brain washed into otheres minds. ya couldnt leave a testamony from someone who is gay and knows what they are talking bout on here yet you all think of gays as the villians with an agenda
bluemew88888 9 months ago
@giramino once again full of it christians trying to tell me that i aint born the way i am i should know im the one who is gay here.
bluemew88888 9 months ago
@bluemew88888 i am a christian. i was born gay its not my fault i love men. you so called christians say its a choice and we shouldnt be allowed to marry each other, or have job security tell me dang it if i worked at say dominoes what does me being gay have to do with my abilities to make pizzas why should i be able to get fired just cause of who i am when it hurts no one. you fake christians should be ashamed of yourselves its your fault and the blood of gay suicides is on your hands. not done
bluemew88888 9 months ago
@bluemew88888 No one is born as a homosexual as it would be unfair and unjust for God to demand that someone refrain from a sin he or she had no control over. It would be the same as a parent demanding that their 2 month old child drive a car to school. How absurd. Do not accuse God of being unfair or unjust to try to justify your sin of homosexuality! And do not blaspheme the holy sanctity and ceremony of marriage that God designed to be shared between a man and woman!
giramino 9 months ago
You may be human but if you are so willing to follow the bible to such a detail then you might as well be the mindless sheep who follows which ever belief system your country is so fond of. Oyeah one more thing there is a large age gap of Jesus in the bible. Why is this so?
Changdesu 9 months ago
@Changdesu Jesus is actually described as the ‘good Shepard’ Who will never let you down or forsake you. Perhaps you should accept Him as your Savior ask Him to forgive your sins and make you acceptable to God through the Salvation provided as a result of the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. As far as your question about an ‘age gap’ of Jesus in the Bible, I’m not sure. Why do you ask?
giramino 9 months ago 2
Question. When exactly was the bible written and then followed to translate into English? Since the bible is not arranged chronologically the translation from Hebrew to Greek and finally English, the true mean of the word is lost. Assuming that you do not speak a 2nd non-European language, you do not understand how meaning is lost during the translation. Find the history behind the writing of the bible, and there you might find truth behind this.
Changdesu 9 months ago
@Changdesu The books and letters of the Bible were written at various times throughout history. Getting correct meaning and translation is where a Hebrew Lexicon comes in handy. They only cost a few dollars at any Christian book store and can be invaluable for concerns that you seem to have. Buy one and keep it available as you study the Word for explainations to many verses that may not be clear to you.
giramino 9 months ago 3
anyone watching this video needs to watch the documentary FOR THE BIBLE TELLS ME SO, it refutes this video and all it's claims about homosexuality. there are clips of this documentary all over youtube.
Requiemxtoxinnocence 1 year ago
@Requiemxtoxinnocence The video you reference was written and produced by homosexuals in an attempt to justify their sin of homosexuality. Nothing new and certainly false information throughout the content. I'm not sure which is more disgusting to God, the lies in an attempt to justify the lust of a man for another man or woman for another woman or their insistence of ignoring God's Word.
giramino 1 year ago 9
@Requiemxtoxinnocence It seems you may be confusing ‘hate’ with ‘correction’. The teaching here is directly from the Word of God, The Bible. And God loves YOU but hates your homosexual behavior. There are those who as children actually believed that their parents hated them because they corrected them when they did something wrong. Some even grow up to be adults and believe that God hates them since they either don’t agree with His rules or that they simply don’t know right from wrong.
giramino 1 year ago 14
So a law that would stop Christian organizations from discriminating against others is somehow silencing Christians? I love the spin Christians put on this stuff. Like how since they can no longer force children to read from the bible in public schools, that is somehow discrimination against Christians. Teaching science instead of creationism is also, in the Christian mind, an attack on Christianity! Gee, what awful torture will they have to suffer next?
christo930 1 year ago
"when it comes to sexual conduct"... you leave it out of the work place! we can't have people judging divorced, fornicators or homosexuals at WORK! god may be the 'boss' of your life but at work you have a boss and he/she should be able to fire you if you're hating on people in HIS/HER workplace
oddjob29 1 year ago
He also became the sacrifice for our sins (New Testament) and so we no longer are required to sacrifice lambs at an alter (Old Testament) as Jesus is described as the "Lamb of God". God does not change, but many things were changed in regard to how we approach God, how he deals with sin, forgiveness and too many consistent circumstances to mention here.
giramino 2 years ago 2
Unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: "They are given over to their passions." That means that their spirits are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:18). As a result, they can no longer be aware of the error of what they are doing. Without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.
giramino 2 years ago
Blah blah blah... these are just empty words unless you can prove to me that they are true. What makes your religious beliefs more correct over the beliefs of others? Nothing.
IantoCross 2 years ago
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Leviticus 18:22. Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God. He created Adam and then made a woman. This is what God has ordained and it is what is right.
giramino 2 years ago 2
Romans 1:26-27 is very specific, "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections, for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working that which is unseemly and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet".
giramino 2 years ago 2
The man interviewed has obviously never met a transgendered person. They don't "switch" day to day from man to woman. They stick to who they are on the inside.
Another lie is that Bible bookstores will be impacted, when they will not. Religion-based businesses are exempted in ENDA.
Another lie: that Christians are getting arrested because of their beliefs.
Oh yeah, sorry Christians... but your religion doesn't automatically trump civil rights.
IantoCross 2 years ago
Man, this video is a bunch of lies!
IantoCross 2 years ago
Please view: /watch?v=bozvwvlyPBE
giramino 2 years ago
Rubbish. Most "successful" ex-gays (and there are VERY few) were bisexual to begin with and learned to emphasize their hetero side. The OVERWHELMING evidence, from years of study, shows that "ex-gay" therapy does not work, with OR without "Christ Jesus".
On Aug 5, 2009 the Amer Pysch Assoc released the results of a 2-year study showing that ex-gay therapy is a failure. They said "There is insufficient evidence that sexual orientation change efforts work."
IantoCross 2 years ago
Im not sure from where your claims were derived since the fact is most of the people being delivered daily from this sin were only homosexual and never even dated the opposite sex. Dozens of individuals are delivered each day nationwide. Youre correct concerning the American Pysch Association therapy, however, the study comes from practitioners, most who are not Christians to begin with and dont understand what must be accomplished to deliver a person from this particular bondage.
giramino 2 years ago
First of all, it is not a sin to have a homosexual orientation. Mainstream society does not see it as such (and trust me, conservative christians who DO see it as sin are hardly mainstream these days).
Second, it's ludicrous to think this is bondage. I have never been happier than when I escaped Christianity and lived my life openly. We're called "gay" for a reason! Likewise, this is why practitioners "don't understand"... because they KNOW that GAY IS GOOD.
IantoCross 2 years ago
IantoCross, sin is sin and it is God Himself Who determines what is sin or not sin, not anyone else, whether they be mainstream, Christian, conservative or liberal, democrat or republican, male or female or whatever. It makes no difference whatsoever to God. It is God Who said that homosexuality is an abomination (disgusting) to Him. It is your God given free will choice to commit this sin or not. However, God has also instructed us to be obedient to His Word.
giramino 2 years ago
And if homosexuality was something you were 'born with' then would it not be terribly unjust and unfair of God to prohibit a behavior that you had no control over (born with)? No, homosexuality is clearly a choice to sin or not the same as lying, adultery and theft are sins that people choose to commit or not.
giramino 2 years ago
giramino please stop... Your a truly false prophet and your scarring away the children of god by preaching your outdated ignorant views
Dkgb969 2 years ago
Dkgb969, I have never claimed to be a phophet in the first place and the Gospel is never 'outdated'. God never changes. What He said 6 thousand years ago is just a true today. Just remember that it is satan who wants Christians to 'stop' as it interfere's with the devils plans of destroying not only outsiders, but God's own children if allowed. I suspect what you are actually saying is for God to 'change' what He has already said. What God had said is not 'ignorant' nor is it 'outdated'.
giramino 2 years ago
Old testiment God VS New testiment God.
Please explain if God never changes why there was such a change.
Kinter 2 years ago 2
The way we now come to Him has changed, not God or His Word. The same is true for food preparation, garments, sin and all the commandments of God, even thousands of years ago. The death penalty for sin that God imposed in the Old Testament is still the same in the New Testament. However, Jesus (New Testament) received the death penalty imposed by God in our behalf.
giramino 2 years ago
So does God intend for us to always walk to church? No, His intention is that we go to church and that did not change. A more realtime example is when Jesus died on the cross, within a few seconds after His death there was an earthquake and the veil of the temple (several feet thick) was torn completely signifying the entrance to God's Holy Temple was now forever changed due to His death and now we have entrance to God through Jesus. Does God still expect us to worship Him? Of course.
giramino 2 years ago
Also consider that during this time in history that this particular group walked everywhere they went. Then consider that later in history God told another group of people, "Be sure to get on your horses and ride to church each Sunday". And then today He said, "Be sure to get in your car and drive to church each Sunday". The fact that He commanded everyone through the years to go to church each Sunday remains unchanged. How we approach or arrive at church changes, not God's original commands.
giramino 2 years ago
Due to limited space here, I'll try to be brief. By His own admission, God does not change (Malachi 3:6, James 1:17) and God is not a liar (Numbers 23:19). Due to the birth, death and resurrection of His Son, Jesus many circumstances changed, however God has never changed and never will. Jesus came to fulfill the law not change it. For example, consider that God told a certain group of people at a certain time in history, "Be sure that you walk to church every Sunday".
giramino 2 years ago
@Kinter There is a God of JUSTICE and there is a God of COMMPASSION. He is one in the same but there are different sides to him.
thebig1 1 year ago
DISGUSTING VIDEO! I believe in love not this crap
JoeyBoya 2 years ago 2
Free speech is not important to you then?
Mekelsior 2 years ago
I really don't see gay people rushing to work in a place that spews this much hate against them. I don't christians have to worry about gays trying to infiltrate their churches. There are so many things they would rather be doing!
thaibasil78 2 years ago 2
I cant wait until Marriage Equality comes here to Indiana.... Spread the love equality for all Gay Straight Black White Men Women
JoeyBoya 2 years ago 2
"No religious person should be indicted or condemed for abiding by thier religious conviction"
If this is true then you are saying that the 9/11 hijackers were right to fly planes into the World Trade Builings because it was based on thier religious convictions.
Hate is hate, is doesnt matter if you try to diguise it in relgious texts or call it faith, hate is still hate.
nonbe1iever 2 years ago 6
Well Gays are forcing their beliefs on people too
SaintJohn86 2 years ago
They are not beliefs they are rights and they dont come from a science fiction book like the christians "beliefs
Treating Gays with equal respect and tolerance is a right that a gay person has no a belief.
Children should be taught that gays are equals and that there lifestyle is not perverted or wrong but simpily different to others.
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
You need to discern what is being said. Religious freedom is the core of freedom of speech. If a persons belief put another life in danger, such as the event of 9/11 then they have no right.
Hate is hate, yes but not to hire a homosexual as a pastor in a church is not hate. He is simply not qualified.
To disagree with someones way of living is not hate either. It is just a point of view.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Freedom from religion is the core of free speech, other wise america would have been a relgious monarchy like the european nations. It is the move away from religion that brings freedom!
Not many homosexuals would be a pastor i assume, but the fact he is not or she is not qualified is because of the prejudice of the scriptue, the person is not at fault for there homosexuality.
And it is on what basis you disagree with a persons lifestyle, for christians it is simple, there god hates gays!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: Freedom from religion is not the core of free speech. Simply because if that was true then we do not have free speech, ever. I believe that we have in many contries free speech, but we are moving away from it, when we tell people they are not allowed to believe in whatever they want to believe.
You are simply suggesting that the Republican can join the democrat party.
You argue out of ignorance, God does not hate homosexual people, He wants to save them as any other sinner.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Wich part of the bible mentions free speech or democracy?? Only dogmatic worship is preached in the bibble, not freedom
You are not allowed to believe what you want, you are not allowed to believe that black people are inferrior to white are you, or that men are better than women.
Freedom to quote and preach scripture that is considered homophobic and offensive, that is not freedom that is freedom to hate.
God does hate homosexuals read your own book, it says it in Leviticus!!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: The Bible speaks freedom first and foremost, freedom from sin, from death, from the torments that are in this world, freedom to live a life abundantly, everlasting with no fear or worries. It is the Christian faith that allowed democracy to develop, this is a known fact. No Christian today force anyone to believe anything they dont want to believe.
And no, God does not hate homosexuals, God only hates sin.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Was it also christian faith that slaughterd the Native Americans? Christianity is about freedom but only for those who agree, those who we dont agree with well they will burn in hell, thats freedom to you. As a european i know that it was the french revolution and the Enlightenment that lead to modern democracy. Both events were moves away from the opresion of christianity, thats just history, its a fact. When did god say that people should be allowed to vote or have representation?
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: There is a difference beween theory and practical application of the theory. Many people troughout history have been caught in a concept of their own ideas rather than to adopt the true values of the ideology. It is true that these held a belief in God but mere belief is not enough, their actions is proof that they did not have a true understanding of their faith.
The French revolution is also known as the Regime of Terror, democracy as btw far older.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Known as the Regime of Terror by Monarchists maybe but history is subjective. To some Nelson Mandella is a terrorist, to most he is not, you can twist anything.
I ment democracy in industrail europe, i know the greeks had a form of democracy and the romans, odd how they had such freedom and democracy with out jesus. Women in there society were respected far more than in the monothiestic religions. Why is god a he, why did he have a son, thats seems a very male dominated story to me!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: The french revolution resulted in the death of over 300 000 people in its 3 year existance. So you admit that democracy did not begin in the french revolution, so where then is your argument?
Regarding the gender of God, its not an issue any christian is concerned with, God is God and not male or female. God created male and female in His image.
And no, women were not respected more in rome than in Israel.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
As i have already stated I am referring to Democracy in industrail europe!!
Yes a lot died but those who died would stand in the way of the fredom and equality the revolution stood for.
BTW the pillgrims and first western settlers killed far more than 300 000 native americans, yet americans always seem to cast a judging eye over the rest of worlds actions!
You state that god has no gender then use the term "Him" surley you should say "it" if it has no gender!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
The french revolution did not create a time of peace and quiet, in the beginning they did remove those that were the cause of oppression, but later they became the oppressors themselves. They killed countless innocents for no reason whatsoever. The revolution inspired the Russian revolution that led to 9 million peoples demise and the beginning of communism that have killed many millions more. If you look in a history book you will see that the french revolution is called the Regime of Terror.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
If your talking about the red revolution of october 1917 only 4 people died!!!! Later on under Stalin many tens of millions perished but the revolution itself was not a blood bath, the opposite in fact.
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: The revolution that Lenin lead and began killed about 9 million people. Stalin killed up to and about 30 million people, the numbers are somewhat uncertain, then we have Mao and Paul Pot who also have killed millions of people, perhaps the last two were not part or inspired by the french revolution but they were inspired by the Russian and the spread of communism.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
I dont see your point i know communism killed many millions, and your numbers on Lenin are way way off, in the 7 years he was in charge about 2 million die in the civil war between red and white russians, not the revolution!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: The point is that you seem to believe that only people who believes in God do evil, and you blame God for it as well. To say that because you do not believe in God therefore He does not exist is a fallacy. I believe that you do not believe in God because you do not want to be responsible for your actions, you want to be "free". I guess it is your right. Then you question those that believe in God and what our motives for doing good and helping the poor. Why?
Mekelsior 2 years ago
WRONG i do not believe in god because there is no empirical evidence for such a beings existance, like i dont believe in Trolls or Unicorns either, same reason
Why are trying to question my actions and saying i dont want to be held responsable for my actions, who the fuck are you too lecture me about responsablity?
I think you only only believe in god because you are a scared weak minded person, who needs a god or creator to give his life structure, you take the easy answer to lifes questions!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: I take the answer that is the most logical the way I see it. I cannot believe that nothing caused everything, it is not what we observe. I did not mean to insult you in any way, but if you remove the cause for everything you have no cause for anything. Whatever action you take or I take is pointless, the life we lead is aswell pointless and ultimatly death is meaningless. This is the consequence of having no cause for our existance.
Maybe you can explain how everything came to be?
Mekelsior 2 years ago
The origins of the universe can never be known, no one knows how we came to be but we can link up and prove certain steps of part of the journey, like evolution.
I never said nothing created anything, your mind works like that of a child, the idea that i believe nothing is not only false but shows your ignorance toward non-believers, if i dont believe in your god then of course i believe nothing!!!
Not knowing the answer of the universes' origin is better than having the wrong answer!!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: The argument is not against a particular God, but if there was a cause or not a cause. The comment that I think like a child I take as a compliment, means that my logic is simple enough and logic enough. If you do not believe in a cause of the universe, then you must believe that there is no cause, you cannot have both a cause and the lack of a cause.
How do you know its the wrong answer?
Mekelsior 2 years ago
You are looking at the universe through a human perspective, through human logic, the most logical thing to do is to say, i have no idea how or why the universe is here!
The idea of causes and purpose are human ideas that may be relavent to a thing like the universe, we do not understand it so how can we apply are human logic to try and explain it.
Its like how we put human behaviour on to animals and say its filthy for a pig to roll in mud, but it is perfectly normal to a pig!!!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: How do you as a human look at anything as a non human? You are using a mixed logic here, you apply my arguments to your universe but you do not accept my arguments for God?
But tell me, do you believe there had to be a cause for anything caused?
Mekelsior 2 years ago
You cany lokk at it as a none human so dont try, just admit you dont know!!! Thats what i just said!!!
If you mean does everything happen for a reason, then no. But if something has been caused then yes as far as humans can tell it had to be caused by something, but with reguard to the universe we do not know how or if it was caused, wether deliberately or not deliberately.
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
I know the bible is wrong because it makes so many mistakes, wrong about astronomy, wrong about the age of the planet, wrong on moral issues like homosexuality or rape, wrong about women and thier role in society, wrong about justice and legal systems, wrong about the intitial creation of human life, wrong about geography (wind especially), wrong about slavery, wrong about sacrafice, wrong about human biology ( humans cant live too 900, it simpily impossible) and wrong about human nature!!!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: I know that you are in disagreement with the Bible, but it does not mean that it is wrong on the areas you disagree with.
There is no evidence for an old earth, it is based on faith.
If the Bible is correct, how can it be wrong in moral issues? The women in the Bible have a great role, they are just not leaders of the church, both cannot lead so there is no problem there either.
Human nature, the Bible defines it as we are all sinners. We all break the law of God.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
The bible is not correct, thats the point. Do you believe children should be killed for dishonoring thier parents, of homosexuals should be killed, or that if a woman can't be heard calling for help when she is being raped that she should be killed along with the rapist!!!!
Why cant woman lead the church and if both cant why is women who cant lead and not men, why cant both lead men and woman do almost everything else the other sex can do.
I hope you do not see women as they are in the bible!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: I believe your understanding of the Bible is not accurate. The Bible teaches that man and woman are equals, but they have their roles in the family and in society. If you disregard the Bible you come to the old world view of woman of them being lesser. This world view was what Jesus adressed in a people that had left the ideal. Do not confuse Gods laws with what God allows in His mercy.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Eery one interperates the bible differenty, thats wht you have so many different sects of christianity. Like all books it means different things to differnt people.
The roles it gives out are not equal roles, the males have higher roles and are put before woman, if you continue to deny that i will have to conclude reasonable debate is not possible with you.
Women were revered befor the old testament, more than after, they had female gods and females were not pigeon holed like they in the bible
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: So your claim that pagans treated their women better than they did in the old testament. Now lets see, have you looked at the Egyptian mythos or the reliefs on the walls, how the women were depicted? Tiny, even the wife of pharaoh only reached him to the knees. Yet in the Bible, the women were given the title of prophetess, they were in charge in the home of education of the children. I guess equality is in the eye of the beholder.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Last time i looked, woman are blamed as the reason for all sin, are they not. Does it not say in genisis that eve a woman, tricked by satan and then she corrupted adam a man. Does it not say that becuase of this women are to be submissive to men??
If thats you verson of equal, frankly you are a danger to women!!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliveer: Eve was tempted, Adam was the one who ate with his eyes open. Paul says that sin came into the world because of one man, Adam.
To be submissive means not that the man should be a tyrant, it is about the woman giving the man the respect he needs to be a man. Not to treat him as a child to pamper or be against him, but to be together next to. You misunderstand christianity, its about being a servant to eachother, all parts are to look for the best in eachother.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Whats with the servant theme? Why not just be 2 equals instead of 2 servants?
Women are not equal in the christain faith, reguardless of your personal interpretation of scripture, i judge your religion by the collective " church ".
This is the perception that many have, why? The church doesn't reguard women as equal to men but under men, a priest even told me that when i was 15.
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: "i judge your religion by the collective " church "." so if I judge you by the standards of Hitler who was an atheist, would that be justified? No, so then why do you judge God based on humans? What right do you have anyway to judge your maker? The church of old may not have regarded women, but God does value the woman very high. Just as high as God regards man, if you refuse to see this that is on you, but to accuse God for something He did not do is not logical.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Hitler wa snot athiest, he belived that the aryan race was destined to rule the world because they possed superhuman abiltiys and intelligentce, try again, maybe you would like to compare me to Stalin, or what about Mao? Athiests are not an organised church but individuals, they do not do things in the name of athiesm.
God was created by humans, without human no god.
"What right do you have anyway to judge your maker?" Its called free speach, i know you christians dont like it, NOT MY MAKER!!!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: Hitler was an atheist very much so, he was also an occultist, he did not believe in creation but in evolution and thus he embraced the concept of the master race.
Stalin and Mao were atheists also so there you have it, when you judge me because of a few men, why are you against the other way?
Humans cannot think of anything new than what already exist.
Oh I like free speach, but it was only a question to help you think, but you avoided it by claiming the right of free speach.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
nonbeliever: Just because I view women as equal worth and value and would treat them with respect and not view them as an object of fantasy, does not mean that Im not worthy of debating. The Bible tells us to treat the women gently, to be kind to them, to love them as we love ourselves, to honor them and protect them. They are weaker in strength, but that does not mean they are less than us, we need them and they need us its a symbiosis. Now you may disagree with me but that is on you.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
As a christian(who i assume takes the bible literaly) you cant see women as equal worth because your holy book tells you that women are to be submissive to you! How are they equal?
"The Bible tells us to treat the women gently, to be kind to them"
Women can look after themselves, they have there own brains and everything you know. I think you have confused women with children, children need to be protected women can protect themselves. By what you say i can tell you see women as less than men.
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: I do not view them as less than me in any way. Do you know what it means to be subjective? Can you have two leaders in a home? If the kid ask mum, she says yes but you said no, would the child have any guidance? It is called parenting, true Im no dad yet. Im not to be a tyrant but a loving leader that treats my wife with the love and respect she deserves, and she does the same to me. There is nothing wrong with that.
God has a principal. "Treat her like a queen"
Mekelsior 2 years ago
nonbeliever: God presented HImself as Jesus the Son of God, why He did this I do not know, I can suspect that the world have always been male dominated and in order to reach people a male God was the only way. Now its only speculation. It is still not an issue and to call God an it would be to undermine Him as a person. The word God is a male word btw, I guess this is one reason why we call God a Him also.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
nonbeliever: Pilgrims and many other people that had a wrong understanding did many wrong things that they will be accountable for when the time comes. God is not merciless, He allows things to happen in hope for us to change to be changed by His will and Character. When it happens, and it does God rejoice for another soul is saved, when it dont and that happens in most cases, then that man or woman will have to answer for their mistakes when judgement comes.
(btw Im a european.)
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Nonbeliever: If you ask what part of the Bible, most of what Jesus said, freedom from bondage, to be conqerors over sin and so on. Read the Gospels, they are all about freedom, speaking of the 10 commandments also, the Law of Freedom. If you keep them you are free from everything. Now it all comes down to this, what is freedom? Is it to do whatever you want? No, freedom is to be able to do good against eachother, to think and believe what you want. You do not see the severety of whats happening.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Your definition of good is diferent from mine!
The gospels are about faith and only if you have faith are you ment to be free, if you do not have faith, its hell for you.
"to think and believe what you want." this is not freedom but anarchy. What if i think i have the right to kill christians is that ok then, what if i decide that my god has told me that christians are evil and deserve an eternal torture for thier faith, i guess that would be ok for you then?
Sin is the creation of man!!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nobeliever: There is again difference from thinking and doing. You are free to think what you want, but you are not free to do what you want. To do part is the anarchy. To think is the liberty. Christianity is about exemplifying the Character of Jesus, did He kill anyone when He was here on earth? No, He healed the sick, ate with the sinners and tax collectors, He did everything to help those that needed help. That is Christianity, most christians have missed the core of the gospel.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
You assume jesus was on the planet then, St. Paul said otherwise. Not untill the first gospel was writen 40 years after jesus' death was thier any record of him ever existing. Apart from Paul who wrote about jesus but never mentioned that jesus was a man who lived on the earth and performed miracles!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nobeliever: You should read the book of hebrews, written by Paul, most likely. Truth be told, there is no point in arguing with you I cannot convince you with words or with arguments. All I can say is to study more closely history and Christendom and most of all who Jesus is and what He did and is doing now. His death and resurrection is what truly will set you free, free from death and free from sin. Invite Him into your heart and experience the real peace that only God can offer.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
"set you free, free from death and free from sin"
You do not know me, you know nothing about me, not even my name or what i look like, yet you feel you have a right to inform me that i live in sin, and death. Do not even try any of your preaching on me, i have heard it millions of times an it still makes me cringe!!!
I am at peace, and a heart is only a muscle that pumps blood round the body, dont insist you are more free or at peace than me, thats is pure arrogance!!!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliver: It is true that I do not know you, but It is also true that you do not live according to the laws of God, this is for all mankind. I do not intend to preach, but it is my duty to inform you of the truth, wether you believe it to be true or not does not matter, the truth is truth no matter opinions. A person that is in Christ is more free than any other person, that is if the BIble and Jesus are correct, but based on that assumption then yes mankind is trapped in sin and in death.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
If thats your view of mankind why dont you leave mankind then? Go and be with your god-kill yourself . Then you will be with god in heaven, so just kill yourself. You are clearly so much better than the rest of us so you need not bother wasting time down here with us mortals, go and be with god then!!!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: Why would I want to do that? God have a purpose for everyone, my job is to help those that need help those that suffer, to spread the good news in a time where no one want to hear it because they fear the consequences.
If you think me better than the rest of us then that is your judgement not mine and I strongly disagree. I have not judged anyone I have simply stated the historical facts of the matter, humans have proven not able to govern themselves, myself included.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
You would do that so you can be with god. Simple, you long for a time when you can be with your god, so why wait go now and be with him, if you KNOW he exists whats the risk?
You say you help people who suffer, what is your motive, because thats what god wants, you only help people for god, not because they need help! Maybe your motivation is that god will reward you if you help the sick or the poor, if so are you not selfish and doing it for yourself and not those in need?
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever. I help those that need help because they need help, there is no other motive behind it, yes I do what God want me to do because of Him. He encourage my love for people, He is the reason and the source of my love, for any persons love. I cannot help but help, it is not because of a reward but it is because of Love that I love.
Now Im not saying that my love is perfect in any way, it is simply there and will grow, because of God who makes love grow.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
nonbeliever: To be with God, is something we, all of us, have the opportunity to be right now. God is everywhere, all knowing, ever present, we do not need to go anywhere to be with God, we simply need to open our eyes, our heart and accept Him into our lives and live with Him every day. We are waiting for Jesus to come back, there is no need to end our lives as life is a gift from God and must be valued. All of human kind is holy for God, and most precious, this is why we still are here.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
nonbeliever: Sin is supernatural, there is no explaination to it, nor can we humans understand it or the ramifications. We may today have somewhat understanding of the destructive powers it holds, when societies crumble and families are ruined.
Many Christians believe in strange doctrines that the Bible does not teach or support. The doctrine of eternal torture in fire is one of the fallacies that comes from greek philosophy and was adopted around 300AD by the RCC then to protestantism.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
nonbeliever: My definition of good is the life of Jesus, what He did was good and we should do the same. He did not condem anyone and He always sought the best of those around Him. He is the Truth the Way and the Life, you may define Christianity as simple as that, Jesus. If anyone claim to be a Christian but do not live a life as Jesus, then their claim is for nothing. Ofcourse we are all at different stages in life and God is working on all the hearts of humanity and draws them to Him.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Jesus was a teacher who lived over 2000 years is a different time and culture to me and you. There was no electricity, no cars, very few scientific principles, it would have been easy in such a primitaive culture to trick people who are prone to believing superstition.
The fact you acknowledge many christians dont know thier own faith speaks volumes! This only suggests to me that it is man made, a god would make his will very very clear surely, yet there are over 1200 recognised religions!!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
"You assume jesus was on the planet then" are we contradicting ourselves, "Jesus was a teacher who lived over 2000 years" there is much evidence to support the existance of Jesus, more so than there was of Julius Cesar and Nero.
To assume that the world in the past were primitive is to assume evolution, we know for a fact that they were far more advanced than we give them credit for.
A Loving God, would not force anyone to believe in Him, or He would not be loving. Your argument fails.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
i never said jesus was not a human, only that Paul never mentions him as a human, quite a big detail to leave out!
I know he was a teacher than lived at this time but no evidence for virgin birth, devine powers, the details of his death, ressurection, and so on!
You have to define in the past, evolution takes place over millions of years not thousands (macro evolution that is) Millions of years ago people were primative, thousands of years ago they were very advanced!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
Jesus was both human and God, He have a dual nature. God became flesh, this is also what Paul writes, and Paul writes also that this God is Jesus.
The Bible testify clearly that Jesus did have powers and the virgin birth and so on, but clearly we pick and choose what sources we use is that not so? :p
They believe that evolution took place over million of years, but they have no emperical data to support their theory, thus its just a faith like any other.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Jesus' story is almost word for word the same as that of the egyptian god horus. And very simillar to krishna and dyonisis, they all came befor jesus.
Why arent the gopels consistant, some mention virgin birth some dont, some give details of miracles some dont, if god was telling them what to write why did he tell them differnt versions of the same story??
Evolution took place over Billions of years, (macro evolution) that is. The evidence for evolution is stacked in mountains.
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: The story of Jesus is unique, it is not part of egyption mythology or any other mythos, this simple fact is easy to establish. The theory of theosophy was created by Petrova Blawatsky in the mid 1800, it is nothing more than mystics and occultism it has no foundation in archeology or historical records.
The gospel is not only consistant but it fills in more details and builds upon eachother. God was not telling them what to write.
The evidence for creation likewise.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Jesus is not unique, the Egyptian book of the dead gives a clear account of Horus who has almost exactly the same story as jesus but 1000 years earlier. Krishna in India very similar 800 years befor jesus and Dyonisis in Greece 300 years befor jesus, NOT UNIQUE AT ALL!!!
Jesus fits nicely into the hero pattern of mystical figures throughout history, he is just an updated version!!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: You should get new information besides Zeitgeist that has some credibility. There is no notable simularities between Jesus or any of the other so called "christs". There is only one Jesus Christ and that was He who walked the earth about 2000 years ago. As I have said earlier, you are simply quoting doctrines from people hating Jesus, so of course they will deny anything about Jesus that is unique.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
You are in denial and ignorant of the facts, a common trait among christians, you will have to face facts that jesus is not unique in his story, simple as that!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: I do not have to believe in something that is not proven to be true. The stories of Horus, Dionysos and the rest have nothing simular with Jesus, even if they did it would not prove anything. Jesus was the only one that rose from the dead and it is the only Faith that makes the claims it does. Now if Christianity is correct then nothing else matters, if its not correct then nothing matters at all. It is called Pascalls wager, perhaps you have heard of it? I
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Yes i have heard of it, its why most people believe in god. They have nothing to lose in a sense, but the bible does say you have to know god and not just pretend. If you only believe in god just in case the word to describe such a person is cowaerd.
Im not going to go on about Horus an Dyonisis as i too belive they are false, however the point still stands that the jesus story is not original.
" I do not have to believe in something that is not proven to be true"
EXACTLY-now you get it!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: But there are much evidence for the existance of God even though I cannot prove His existance. If God was disproven however that would be something else.
I do not know if Pascals wager is the biggest reason why people believe in God, its not the reason I believe in God it is a very logical argument anyway. But you are right, Knowing God is what Christianity is all about, knowing Jesus.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Give an example of evidence for the god in the bible.
Their is no evidence otherwise what is the point of faith, faith is a substitute for knowledge if you have knowledge then you dont need faith.
Pascals wager i think is the biggest reason, just incase can be a very powerful argument, you have nothing to loose in sense, but you loose everything, humans are genetically programed to make thier future better than thier past, christians do not want this they long for end of humanity, so sad.
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: You do not believe in the concept of God, nor are you open to the possibility of a God, so how can i give you evidence for something you discard by default? First you need to address the question if everything just came to be without a cause, if you say yes to that then there is little I can do to help you see reason. If you say no, then you are believing that everything had to have a cause. From there we can reason ourselves to what this cause is.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
"There is no evidence for an old earth, it is based on faith"
The most idiotic thing you have said. How can be so painfuly arogant, do you think thier is a massive conspiracey between the 93% of Geo-Scientists who say the planet is between 4.5 and 5 billion years old.
How could the continents drift apart in just 6000 years? How do you form the grand cannion in 6000 years? Why does Carbon dating done on the radiation decay of uranium point to 4.5 - 5 billion years old?
Do not be a fool!!!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: There is no evidence for an old earth, if there is let me know. If you are refering to dating methods, not a single one of them gives any reliable information or date. Did you know, we cannot date rocks? We date rocks based on the index fossils, wich we cannot date, but date nontheless based on what rock layer we find it in. This is circular reasoning and does not cut it. Not a single dating method is working, but yet accepted as fact. It is mere fiction. Do not be a fool? Right.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
No i said we date the Uranium Radiation in the rocks not the rocks themselves, even though you can date rocks to a certain extent but not billions of years. It is the Radiation that gives us the answers, and it is quite accurate 100 million years here and there. Uranium radiation doesnt lie, unlike men with wild imaginations..!!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: But the radiation is not constant or set in stone, there is no evidence that says that the radiation only came from one source. It has been proven without a doubt that radiation and decay rates can be manipulated in labratories, so then we have again no assurance of the dates of the earth. Did you know that Robert Gentry have discovered Polonium Halos, that demonstrates that the earth was created quickly? Also on the moon have they found isotopes with very short halflifes.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
The vast majority of experts fall on 1 side, as well you know. There will always be one or two who want to make a name for themselves and disagree.
"It has been proven without a doubt that radiation and decay rates can be manipulated in labratories"
Oh i see and the bible hasn't been manipulated by men?
You question deep and complex science yet you accept easily the childish stories of the bible, if only you applied the same logic across the board.
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: Oh I do, if only atheist was just as sceptical to science as they were to the Bible. No Im sceptical to the theory of evolution for a reason, I have experience with mass manipulations and this is what I see, I believe events and time have managed to prevent the truth to be preached. Did you know for example, that Huxley the buldog of Darwin was in charge of deciding what was science and what was not? So he discarded all evidence against evolution. How honest of him.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Yet you fail to see the the failing of the bible, you are point blank refusing to accept that thier are a number of inacurate and false statements in the bible then?
I accept that science is not perfect because it made by humans, but humans are all we are and all we have!!!
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: I do not believe there are no discrepencies in the Bible, it was afterall penned by man, inspired by God but its not an argument against the BIble or God, only God is infallabe and He have made it clear through His Word what we need to know.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Well you state this as though it was a proven fact, please tell me your evidnce that shoes the men who wrote the bible were inspired by god, is it because they told you they wre inspired by god, so it must be true? What if i said i was inspired god, you wouldnt believe me would you.
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: I have said before that the prophecies in the Bible are evidence of inspiration and of God. No human can tell the future with 100% accuracy, yet in the Bible we have prophecy upon prophecy that have been fullfilled with 100% accuracy.
IF you claim to be inspired, you would also need to demonstrate it, do you have the gift of prophecy? Do you keep the commandments of God? This is the criteria that God have given us.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
nonbeliever: The propehcies in Daniel and Revelation is evidence for the God of the Bible. Not a single other religion have anything that is even remotely close to any of it.
History have proven that mankind, even though they long for something better, are incapable of making it happen. Now it is not sad to believe that only God can make it work, what is sad is the more and more advanced methods mankind have learned to kill eachother.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
So you are claiming mankind has not improved since 6000 years ago, what about internet, cars, the wheel, heart transplants, pennicilin, tv,telephone.....should i go on
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: You said that we had improved and you were not talking about science. The last 200 years we have improved in the ways of science yes, but overall mankind have not improved morally or otherwise. We still believe in general, that conflict is the answer to conflict, wicked people still do wicked things, and in all honesty and truthfullness, we have gotten better at it, meaning we are more skilled at making war, at killing eachother. This is not improvement.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Morals are subjective, maybe you cant see improvement but last time i checked we dont make children work in factories anymore like they did 200 years ago. Homosexuals are no longer in danger of being killed ( well, not as much danger), the mentally and physically disabled are no longer cast out from society, and although racism is still very much alive it has been expelled from the mainstream an marginalised. Oh yea and ( in the west) slavery is now ilegle, so you cant see the improvement
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: "Morals are subjective..." two ways we can deal with this, 1) Is anything objective, 2) Is it right to torture humans. If the first statement is wrong, then the second statement is correct. It may not be correct for every human, especialy not the poor guy being tortured. Was the holocaus correct? If morals are subjective then yes it was.
Btw, there are more slavery today than there have ever been in history of time combined. No we have not evolved at all. Jesus is first on morals.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
The Holocaust was moral to Adolf Hitler. It is what the majority agree is moral that sets up our moral footing. The popular concenus decides everything.
Question - If God came to you and told you that Pedophilia was now moral and good, would it be alright then ? If god makes morals why not?
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: Again its not relevant if God does this or does that when He have already set the rules since forever, God does not change, nor does His Law.
So you agree with the holocaust being right, is that not a horrible belief? You can then justify everything, then you have no laws and you live in anarchy. Is that a better way than that of freedom?
Mekelsior 2 years ago
God does not change you say, so why is the bible in its 5th edition then, you know the "word of god" has been chaged many times, you are deep in denial about almost everything.
Quote where i said i thought the holocaust was moral? Did you not acuse me of twisting your words befor, an now you try to suggest that i am a sort of NAZI, a common christian tactic, all athiests must be either NAZIs or Communists, is that it?
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
Nonbeliever: The Word of God have not changed, I do not know why you beleive this fallacy. They discovered in the Kumran caves the dead sea scrolls wich were 98% simular than the King James Version. The Bible did not change since the time of Jesus, and Jesus used that Bible, so why assume it changed?
"The Holocaust was moral to Adolf Hitler. It is what the majority agree is moral that sets up our moral footing. The popular concenus decides everything"
In short a reason for the holocaust.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
nonbeliever: "the point still stands that the jesus story is not original" you have not established such a point, both the story of dionysos and horus does not resemble the story of Jesus enough to be even considered. You should watch Zeitgeist debunked. It is all part of Sophism that was founded by an anti christian occultist Petrova Blawatsky.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
So your now claiming the Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Greeks are made up to dis-prove christianity, do you have no respect for cultures that do not believe in your god!!
The Book of the Dead was writen long befor the Old Testament, Horus' story is clearly recorded in it, and has striking similarites to the life of jesus, Virgin birth, miracles, death and resurection after 3 days.
I know that none of that happened but it was still recorded befor jesus.
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
Nonbeliever: You are misquoting the book of the dead, Horus did not have a virgin birth.
You really really should look into it before you continue to make claims that are not supported. Or if you want to prove me wrong site sources. Provide primary sources that talk of this. Zeitgeist is not a primary source.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
No one has ever has a virgin birth, ever, ever, ever, ever so we agree on horus.
I dont even know what "Zeitgeist" is...
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: Hehe, how do you know that no one has ever had a virgin birth? Would not be anything special about the birth of Christ then, no its a matter of faith here, neither can prove or disprove the other, so to say its a fact that there was no virgin birth is not possible. You may have the faith in the possibility, and you may have the evidence on your side, but it still does not change the fact that it may be the case that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary. Wich I believe. :)
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Virgins by thier definition have not had sexual intercoursemi sure you knew that though. Ergo if a female had not had her egg fertilised by a male sperm she can not possibly be pregnant, so yes i have enough evidence to say virgin birth is made up. It is a pardox un to it self like "Innocent Murderer"
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
Nonebeliver: But if there is a God who can do miracles, surely it is possible that a woman can become pregnant without intercourse. Just because the pig gets food every day, does not mean he will get food everyday.
In the realm of God, nothing is impossible. So you have no arugment.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
I have no reason that there is a god who can do miracles and i have never said there is, so it is not possible for a woman give birth without fertilisation by a male sperm, end of disscusion, think about what you are saying.
So if nothing is impossible in the "realm of god" then how do you now it is impossible that god doesnt exsist, you are claiming that you know everything, are you not.
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: Your "end of discussion" only reveals your closed mindedness on the subject, not even to be open for the possibility that if there is a God then miracles are not impossible. You want me to think about what I am saying? Well ofcourse I do, but you need to be less biased.
I have never claimed that I know emperical that God exist, but I have enough faith to know personally that God exist. I do not claim all knowing, that is what atheism does.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Totlay wrong athiests claim doubt and scepical thinking, the opposite of all knowing, it is you who is claim to know the unknowable, and base it on very weak evidence.
I can only accept what can be explained in human yerms, somethings cant be explain in human terms like the universe, but pregnancy is easily explainable.
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
Nonbeliever: Check the dictionary, atheism asserts there is no god. You may have a personal opinion on the matter but that does not change the definition. Further you can define atheism as a religion, as it is many who have a religious zeal and defends it with tooth and nail. Yet atheism is the worst form of belief as everything is permissable.
If you can only accept what can be explained or seen, are you not then discounting the electron, the atom, the quarks and the strong and weak force?
Mekelsior 2 years ago
All of those things have been explained, so you just killed your own point.
You know nothing of athiesm, athiests do not have a code of belief structure, it is about the individual. Everything is permissable in christianity as you claim your god can do anything, do you not? Think of the people god has murderd in the bible, god sees murder as moraly ok, does he not? Or is it a case of do as i say not do as i do?
nonbe1iever 2 years ago
nonbeliever: Nonbeliever, an explaination does not mean you have seen it. I asked have you seen an electron, and I may add, with your naked eye? No, so why do you believe in it?
I know all there is to know about atheism, I have read the dictionary. It is a system of belief that in the end have no laws or rules because nothing eventually matters. If you sit back and ponder it a bit then ask yourself, what does it matter to you what you do, for when you die the memory of yourself is gone.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
nonbeliever:
Atheism by Meriam Websters b : the doctrine that there is no deity
doctrine:b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief :
So according to the dictionary, Atheism is a system of belief that claim to posess knowledge that there is no god.
I believe evolution is based on very weak evidence, but we can both say it. Prove to me that we have evolved from a common ancestor with apes.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
there is plenty of proof, check out some books or videos on the subject. Both DNA and bone/skeletal remains point to the fact that we shared the same primate ancestor. 99.99% of the scientific community (which is really the only community that is relevant in this debate) accepts evolution as a fact based on the existing evidence.
manowarx 2 years ago 2
Im sure this is your belief but that does not matter. you Cannot argue out of popularity, just because majority of scientists believes the theory doesnt make it true.
Besides, similarities does not mean by default common ancestry. It may mean that we have been made out from the same Creator, fact is it doesnt prove anything. They are just similarities.
Mekelsior 2 years ago
Hmm, you obviously refused to do any research. I was just trying to put forth that there is PLENTY of evidence to the theory of evolution, and yes, in the SCIENTIFIC community if 99% of the field accepts a theory, then they work on other projects with a basis in that theory as being true. So far, all biological, geological, and other sciences support the Theory of Evolution. If this is a scientific debate then Evolution has to be accepted as true, if this is just a philosophical debate...
manowarx 2 years ago
I have not argued that there are no evidence for evolution, there is probably a lot of it too but there is also a lot of evidence for the opposite. So in the end it comes down to what do you want to believe, if you want to believe you came from animals then you are free to believe that but please do not come and say its a proven fact just because some men in white suits says so.
Mekelsior 2 years ago