Got a comment about why atheists keep bringing up the God conversation. Religion is simply a way of grasping people by offering them a simple explanation to the complexities of life, making it easy to accept. However the unyielding faith you have without any need for actual proof is also a means to socially program you to not ask questions. I could care less myself about what anyone chooses to believe, however when you apply that conditioning to other matters such as government...
I would concede that Christian can fall into the trap of arrogance. Far from excusing it, arrogance, and self righteousness are part of the human condition. The Word of God rails against it repeatedly, and many Christians fall into the trap (not excluding myself at times!) of engaging non-believers without the full council of God in their hearts.
That aside, whether you're atheist or theist, you have to believe something always existed, whether it is 'In the beginning, God...' or 'In the beginning matter/cosmic soup...' Both are things you can't see, but the former can, in fact, be scientifically proven, or proven in objective, rational, metaphysical dialectical debate, and engaging systems of thought of all traditions of thought.
Aside from that, if you have to prove everything ontologically, it's not faith. Atheism is faith too.
The fact that I used to be even harder-hearted against anything to do with God and religion, subscribing to every speculative humanist musing in my academic life is proof of an omniscient and omnipresent spirit that thoroughly extirpated my haughty ego, intellectually arrogance and ultimately brought me to my knees.
You're right. It is important, and you raise some valid points. It is possible to know that there is a living God, outside of our temporal and spatial realm. I used to be an atheist vexed by the same questions you have.
Yo guys, I was having this convo with an Atheist and he was talking about how he hates people who don't understand definitions. But basically he was saying how arrogance and hypocrisy are one in the same all the while acting like he was intelligent. Not to mention blanket statements rock.
atheists usually are pretty damn arrogant. not quite sure why they always wanna bring the subject of religion up and keep reminding me they are atheist, and are always trying to corner me with questions.
No. Theism is arrogant as it claims absolute certainty about things it can't even defend properly. Atheism merely is a rejection of these theistic dogma's. How can that ever be arrogant?
Atheism isn't arrogant... it's their adherents who give that impression. There is nothing offensive about a statement like "there is no afterlife or reincarnation". Put a human with emotions behind the statement and more often than not they say something like "you are an idiot to believe in a heaven fairytale". Big difference.
A common mistake people make is the difference between hard and soft, or strong and weak atheism, as I've heard it said.
Hard atheism is the belief there is no god.
Soft atheism is the lack of belief in a god. Two very different things, though they appear similar. Very few atheists, while they might say the former definition to describe themselves, will identify with it when you mention the latter.
Because hard atheism is claiming to know everything, even beyond our finite being.
@EaiteFojdcee Strong atheism isn't necessarily an absolute claim. Even Dawkins says in his book "there probably are no gods". And this statement is concluded from rational reasoning.
Just like we conclude that there probably aren't unicorns or a santa claus... we can't prove it for 100% (because negative statements of existance can't even be proven)... but through reasoning and rational argumentation we come to the conclusion that there probably is no such thing. And that's fine.
@ScientificBob Yes, but the commonly referenced definition itself for atheism is "the belief that there is no god." Which is a ridiculous belief, because we don't know for sure either way.
The magic word is "probably." Now, the likelihood can be debated, but as long as someone doesn't make an extreme claim, that's just dandy.
@EaiteFojdcee Nobody "knows" that unicorns don't exist and that goes for ANYTHING your imagination can come up with - including gods. The word "probably" should technically be included everywhere. For practical purposes this is not done. You are either a theist or an atheist. There is no "third" option. You either believe or you don't. 'I don't know' is not believing, which makes you atheist.
You know i get the same shit every day by people who are hard core christans. I mean really what the hell people. You say you know things about something that may or may not exist when the fact is is that you got half of christianity from OTHER pagan beliefs. Gods image came from Zeus. The pitchfork of the Devil came from Neptune. Those are 2 of the thousands of others.
Atheist - You're claiming that you know something you can't possibly know, and what you're claiming also doesn't make any sense. It makes a lot more sense to me that we just accept that there are things we don't know and move on.
Christian - God made the entire universe for me and my fellow man, and loves us above all things, and when we die we get to spend all of eternity with him in a special place and be happy forever.
Would you rather believe that there is an afterlife, or would you believe that when you die, there is nothing? I think the reason people believe in any religion in the first place is that they are afraid to die, and what happens to them when they're dead. Isn't it more comforting to believe that there is in fact an afterlife?
@xeridon1337 I don't think they're afraid to die. I think they just have a hard time grasping the concept of life. I'm not religious, but I will defend religious people. I will also defend non-religious people. To be honest, I'm pro-choice. I'm not saying that we should go anarchy, as that would be completely idiotic, but I am pro-choice. Anyways, haven't you ever wondered what will happen when we die? It's hard to understand our brain's complexity. :/
@xeridon1337 "Would you rather believe that there is an afterlife, or would you believe that when you die, there is nothing" I would rather believe what is actually correct, not what pleases me or what gives me fuzzy feelings.
"Isn't it more comforting to believe that there is in fact an afterlife" This doesn't make sense to me. How is it more comforting to believe that you might end up in a dungeon of torture for eternity?
you strike me as a very arrogant person and not because your an atheist. I have atheist friends that respect me despite the fact that I'm a christian and i respect them despite the fact that they are atheists. You just have preach on and on and on, and the truth is you are not making a difference. If anyone has a problem with you being an atheist, flip em the finger and tell them to gtfo and stop wasting your breath.
i wish people would stop trying to convert others into what they believe.. ill let you think what you want and respect it, as long as you let me believe in what i believe and respect it.
@soccerdawg17 the reason people try to convert is most simply put this way, lets say a truck(hell) is headed towards you on a highway but you REFUSE to accept that it's coming well im not going to just sit there and watch you get hit by the truck im going to try and push you out of the way which basically means im trying to stop you from living an eternal nightmare in hell. even IF this truck doesnt exist wouldnt you say its worth it to try and push you out of the way?
@ethicomm of course we do! We give thanks to the doctors for saving lives, to the scientists for trying to find cures to diseases, to the rescuers for saving the lives of the Chilean miners, to teachers for educating, to police officers for protecting, to volunteer workers, human rights defenders...do you get the point?
Many "Christians" are very arrogant. You'll have to see that some of them are just... stupid. I believe there is a God, and I believe in the Christian God. Though I don't thing you're arrogant. You're just trying to figure things out like the rest of us. Not many "Christians" are real and actually think about what we claim to believe, but some of us do. Really dig into the religion in your own way, you'll be surprised by what you'll find.
@musicismyfavorite777 Yes, you'll find your own interpretation, unless you go asking other what something means. Then you may get mixed messages, or you may find a "group" who follow the same idea. I don't think religion or theism is the place to start when looking for answers, unless you want answers to questions like, "What color is hope?", because no question is stupid, but not every question has an answer. What people will do is try to represent everything by what they know, that is all.
I really don't see the reason to believe in anything, shouldn't your life right now be the thing you want to put your time into? whoever created us or how we were made is something that I just do not care to find out, because I'm alive right now, and I'm making sure I enjoy it and the life around me.
I will not come here to preach to you. Only to give my opinion. To be completely honest, all science is just theories. All scientist will agree. Now I'm not saying that things in the bible are more true compared to science but if you "gave it a try" , for lack of a better phrase, I think you would see just why Christians feel the connection to God. All I ask is for you to think about it. Let God do the rest but remember, he can only work in you if you allow him to.
@Muggsnet If science were just theories, you wouldn't have the computer to type your opinion on, you wouldn't have a cell phone to talk to others, you wouldn't have a car to take you places. How do you explain that? Or maybe it was God who created them? Also, many people become atheists AFTER reading the bible, so they know what they left behind, don't worry.
@bukojuko Thumbs allow us to grasp things better. Scientists and evolutionists alike believe that we share common ancestors with tree dwellers. In other words, our thumbs also helped with the aspect of climbing trees.
@faveology You obviously missed the sarcasm, I was replying to Penguinlaughter who basically is saying that the fact that computers, cars and cellphones exist...disprooves the existence of a creator. Which is really dumb...So I will use the same dumb logic
@penguinlaughter No they don't.. LOL. None of my atheist friends have ever read the bible. The only reason why they know some of the bible is because I tell them about it, or they hear it from someone else. To be honest, I think most atheists are stupid too. Why are suicide rates rising? Stress is growing higher. Depression is also on the rise. Why is this? Two reasons: 1) The economy is shit. 2) People don't know what to believe anymore. God used to be an escape goat and relief for people.
Neither sides can convince eachother. I could say that the evolutionary theory is BS and point out why, and you could defend it with your own reasoning. You could say that the Bible is complete BS and point out why, and I could defend it with my reasoning. Honestly, I'm just happier looking forward to something, having positive morals, and, of course, God to watch over me. You could argue that it's a placebo effect and I'd know you're wrong. Both sides sound arrogant at this point.
I believe both sides are arrogant. The truth is, no matter how convincing your argument is, neither side will EVER change their mind. Atheists truly believe they are right, in the same manner that Theists do. Realistically, there is no way to prove either side. You CANNOT prove God exists, and you CANNOT prove god doesn't exist. This is why I try to avoid this conversation with friends. In the end I feel like preaching against religion is a way of trying to remove what COMFORTS people.
Seldom do Atheists attempt to persuade Theists... But the reverse does come up often.
I say (Agnostic) I disbelieve because I have not witnessed any proof. I'd rather be ignorant of a possible truth because I do not wish to accept it without any proof, then blindly believe in something that has no evidence.
The main difference there, is they are drawing "truth" without proof, and I am merely disregarding an Idea because there is no proof.
@pyropope I really disagree. I believe that both sides do try to persuade. I think its nearly impossible to discuss the topic with people of both sides without one person trying to persuade. This is due to when you have a difference of opinion, you give EVIDENCE, this evidence is really just pieces of persuasion.
Also, you are being arrogant by saying those who believe in God are wrong - meaning you are 100% right. I can say the exact same thing to you. Prove God doesn't exist. You can't.
What I said was that anyone can claim something to be true, and create a set of rules which prevent it from being false. In this case, God exists outside of the bounds of logic / reason because he can do anything. In order to "prove" him wrong i would need to use logic or reason which are not applicable to this omnipotent hypothetical being.
NPH is really god. He has merely taken the form of a man to test us. He has designed his disguise perfectly. Prove me wrong.
@pyropope That's such a bizarre statement. To "prove" him wrong you'd need to use logic? because logic is the opposite of belief? so in order to prove something wrong, you must prove the opposite? I'm sitting in a blue chair, prove me wrong - by telling me i sit in a red chair. Wrong. Proof must be something tangible - something one can absorb with the senses. Since you cannot see God, you cannot say he doesn't exist. There is just no way of arguing against that. There is ZERO proof either way.
@meshak04 You are completely missing my point. Logic is needed to reach any conclusion, proof or disproof. I said that proving he doesn't exist will never happen. Anything which by its own definition is Omnipotent cannot be proven wrong, as they have the ability to do anything.
I am not saying there is proof that he doesn't exist. I am saying I personally do not believe ANYTHING without proof. Since there is no proof, I choose to not believe.
@pyropope That's fine, I was never arguing whether God was real or not. But some things just don't make sense. There are things that cannot be explained, regardless of how much logic is applied to it. I don't believe in God either, but I cannot tell anyone he doesn't exist, because I can't prove that. But realistically, religion makes people feel good, and gives them comfort, even if I could prove God didn't exist, would I really want to take that from people?
I cannot prove him wrong, Nor can ANYONE. No one will EVER prove his existence to be false. People have provided explanations to things previously thought to be Gods work that did not involve supernatural, but even these are speculation as there is no proof that they did cause them, just that they were capable of causing them.
I understand people like to believe in God for the comfort of not being alone, and they may even be right. They nor I will ever be proven one way or the other.
@meshak04 I agree you can't prove that God or a God exist but you can prove that idealogies are wrong. I don't necessarily agree with every idea that Christians have about God (I was raised Christian), but I also don't completely agree there is or is not a God. Christians always say "we are sinners by nature", but they also say "we are made in God's image". Wouldn't that make their own God who they claim to be perfect NOT perfect. (That was just one example). Counter argument, anyone?
@meshak04 Actually I just thought I should point out that Atheists aren't necessarily saying that a god definitely doesn't exist they just deny a current belief through lack of evidence. Theists however typically say that they KNOW their god exists (I'm not saying all theists believe this but the vast majority that I've met do). So please don't think that agnosticism is a moral high ground it's more of an intellectual uncertainty where conclusion isn't drawn in either direction.
1) Logic does not necessitate a proof of non-existence. In fact your lack of belief in fairies, unicorns, and leprechauns are all BASED on [no evidence --> no proof of existence --> no belief].
2) Religion comforts AND harms people. Meanwhile there are means to comfort WITHOUT HARM to ANYONE and every single one of them is not based on religious ideas.
3) Comfort does not imply truth. And more often than not requires ignoring reality. Which harms more than it helps.
2. How does it harm people? Religion does not cause wars, it is certain people who interpret their religion to mean one thing, and attempting to enforce it, which is most likely more of a form of mental illness than anything.
3.Why does something need to be true in order to comfort you? If you're poor and you hope and believe things will get better, that's not comfort? If reality is the only thing that matters then there is no such thing as love
1) You completely miss the point. UNTIL EVIDENCE IS PRESENTED OTHERWISE, you do not believe that X exists and you base your decisions as though X does not exist. It is those who make the claim that X exists that must provide evidence...And if they don't then you are 10000% justified to both reject the claim and believe that X does not exist UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE.
2) Actually it is the religion. Religions are the series of rituals based on interpretation of the myths told.
As such, that the RELIGION has ENTIRE SETS OF LAWS that FORCE people to USE VIOLENCE against those that don't believe in that god, and even those that do if it's the wrong interpretation of the god, it is the Religion that causes the violence.
Additionally, if someone has a mental disease that inclines them to steal, we still put the responsibility on the person and not the disease. It's the same exact thing on larger scales.
3) If it's not true, then it leads to a false comfort. When it comes into question, the comforted will reject reality. This will lead to disassociation from society, and subsequently an incapability to connect to anything let alone love someone else.
"If reality is the only thing that matters then there is no such thing as love" Attraction on various levels, from primal lust to platonic fulfillment, is demonstrable on every level and has observable effects. Hence "Love" is "real". :P
@onijester56 it's really dim witted to try to use leprechauns unicorns or fairies. yes they all,besides the unicorn, can turn invisible/can hide due to small size ,but what it fails to take into account is the fact that all of them are supposed residents of earth and therefore would be seen by people eventually because they aren't all knowing or all seeing and so won't always get a chance to hide. God(s) on the other hand exist on the ethereal plane and so can't be seen.
@DarkJoker7 "God(s) on the other hand exist on the ethereal plane and so can't be seen." Yet he's supposed to interact with the world in observable ways. At the very least, God would send angels to do his work. And yet there's no evidence of either God or angels outside of the realm of fantasy.
However if God does not concern himself with this plane of existence then this plane of existence should not concern itself with God. "Do unto others..." and what-not.
@onijester56 interacting from another plane would be akin to being in a spectrum of light the human eye can't detect. we're not equipped to see anything be it a god or otherwise that exists within that spectrum. (not saying planes exist in spectrum of light this is just an example thought i suppose they could) there could be strange animals we haven't met yet living in it but we can't see them. The god then being all powerful could interact within any plane without leaving it.
@DarkJoker7 "interacting from another plane would be akin to being in a spectrum of light the human eye can't detect." You mean like infrared rays that we use to deliver messages? X-rays that we use to examine people? Microwaves that we use to cook food? Radio waves that we use to communicate?
If God had ANY impact on this plane of existence then we WOULD BE ABLE TO OBSERVE THE EFFECTS. All the more-so if he's "all-powerful" because we would see macroscopic changes without any sort of cause.
@onijester56 not really your thinking "god affects world -> world changes to god's will -> man goes wtf as the world randomly shifts around him -> god is discovered" when the thing is if you have the power to do whatever you want and ignore the rules normal people/things/what have you, have to follow you can make changes and no one would know if you didn't want them to, but usually no changes are needed especially larger ones, however if they were made it would be akin to the time travel theory-
@DarkJoker7 "when the thing is if you have the power to do whatever you want and ignore the rules normal people/things/what have you, have to follow you can make changes and no one would know if you didn't want them to" The god who would hide completely from people while demanding worship AND punishing them for not worshipping is not worthy of belief. If you can even call such a malevolent entity "God".
And the rammifications of rewriting events as you propose God does...
@onijester56 that says that if you changed the past the future wouldn't notice because to them the past hasn't changed and has always been that way though it has effected them completely and utterly. you can still trust your mind because it'll change too as the past changes, but you wouldn't notice at all.
also all those things you mentioned were forms of light yes but you must have completely ignored my parenthetical statement. The point was we can't see it we can manipulate them but
@DarkJoker7 "you can still trust your mind because it'll change too as the past changes, but you wouldn't notice at all." Then why didn't God eliminate Slavery? World War 2? Suffering? The countless thousands of religions and pantheons that are wrong? The seperation of languages?
"you must have completely ignored my parenthetical statement" We can't 'see' light, but we know it exists based on its effects and can manipulate it. Your parenthetical statement has no bearing on that fact.
@onijester56 my point was to show that things can exist beyond our perceptions, and as for all that stuff about why a deity wouldn't eliminate all those things what i figure is that in order to give us free will god consciously denies himself certain levels of interference as the only plausible way free will works is if we are allowed to do the wrong thing. i'd rather have free will and eventually learn from my mistakes then not and always get cleaned up after..
@DarkJoker7 "my point was to show that things can exist beyond our perceptions" Things themselves. Your point fails, however, in that we can observe how those things affect the world in ways that CAN BE PERCEIVED. Hence the different 'light types', that we KNOW despite being INVISIBLE because we can OBSERVE EFFECTS.
"in order to give us free will god consciously denies himself certain levels of interference" Free will is NOT FREE if the punishment for using it is eternal suffering.
"the only plausible way free will works is if we are allowed to do the wrong thing" 'wrong' as arbitrarily defined by the entity supposedly providing the free will.
Also, there is a problem in that if Hell is based on belief then actions are useless. A murderer can get into heaven when someone who has never heard of God will suffer forever regardless of his selflessness.
Or if it's being 'good' then there's no reason to believe, especially at your level of irrationality.
@onijester56 most "sins" are nothing more then human morality issues if you want to argue with me that murdering or raping is arbitrarily wrong then this conversation is over.
actually if you've never heard of it you considered an innocent and go to heaven regardless. "for it is better to know nothing of god then to know of him and reject him" i thinks the way the passage reads.
@DarkJoker7 [if you've never heard of it you considered an innocent and go to heaven regardless.] Then God is unjust to put such a double-standard. And also, using the Bible...Mark 16:16 is a good refutation. And so is John 14:6, as well. 2 Peter 2:21 isn't good enough.
["sins" are...human morality issues] Then God isn't needed to explain morality, which takes away a central reason to believe.
You really aren't making a good case to believe in your understanding/interpretations of God.
@onijester56 The parts of the bible that references laying with a man as a sin as you would a woman is speaking about how in the past there was a practice of ritual raping a man that you had defeated or as religious ritual. the original translation (torah) of that passage shows this. english translations tend to simplify scenarios and create misunderstanding.
regardless of what your faith you should want to be good if this is irrational to you again i'm done speaking with you.
[the original translation (torah) of that passage shows this] Actually nope. Not in Lev.20:13 or Lev.18:22. And sure as hell not in Rom.1:26-27. Not in Greek, Latin, or English of any. Neither literal nor annoted versions.
[regardless of what your faith you should want to be good] And you just proved that your God is evil and remarkably hubric. Congratulations, you admit to worshipping an egomanical immoral dictator. Without even responding to what I said!
@onijester56 actually, it does talk to any Jewish person that can actually read Hebrew know this. the Christian version of the old testament is simplified and uses the wrong meanings of many words. the new testament as well has many transcription errors such as the fact the word for virgin in Hebrew is also the word used to address any young lady no matter if she's sexual active or not.
Also, what i was saying here is you were trying to say that if you just want to be good theres no reason
@onijester56 to believe. i have easily covered all of your problems with everything you have or could have brought up. You mention irrationality but you are the one becoming slanderous and bohemian like with you're ill meant words and your obviously large leaps in logic that make no sense. What I said was that we should all want to be good regardless of our faith mine in a god and yours in the lack thereof. After all atheism is a humanistic religion. ouch did that hurt?
@onijester56 if you haven't discovered something invisible to you like a new form of light then you can't manipulate it, but i digress arguing over light wasn't the point, my point was that things exist beyond the ability for humans to see, smell hear, and taste. it's not a far jump for us to conclude there are things Us and our science can not comprehend or account for at the moment. not to say that it proves god but to say it proves that a god can exist.
@DarkJoker7 "if you haven't discovered something invisible to you" The thing is that we CAN discover what is invisible to us. Even for what we can't "manipulate", we can still DISCOVER.
"there are things Us and our science can not comprehend or account for at the moment" Argument from ignorance.
"it proves that a god can exist." The same 'logic' says that leprechauns 'can' exist. But you don't live your life believing that they leave pots of gold at the end of rainbows. Or do you?
@meshak04 Well, you can't prove there isn't a HUGEASS mustard monster that is going to eat you tonight right? But really.. Do you expect anyone to believe me?
Dude. Who cares about belief. We all dont really know what happend.
i think its all a bullshit story and that there is probably some spirtual shit out there but its difantly not the shit we believe in these days. But it really does not matter because we in reality do not know. You dont need to make all these videos about how someones belief is incorrect and how yours is fine. Just leave it.
There's arrogance on both sides, and modesty on both sides. You have, it seems, primarily encountered arrogant theists, as have I. However, I've encountered atheists who have thought of me as lesser and simple minded because of my belief in Christianity.
Both sides of the coin, man. You never bother to look at the other side.
It is obvious that the essence of any religions are Morales. When you acknowledge that fact there is no more reason to search for the source of those Morales, be it God, Satan, or the kid next door. The truth is people are so obsessed by what will happen after their lives (afraid of gods wrath for some) that they forget about the true Message ... Love each other. WHOEVER is attacking Kage 717 for is beliefs ... failed.
Atheism is arrogant. To be an atheist is arrogant. You also believe that you know things that you could not know. It is impossible to disprove God. In responce to the last part of your video, any "theist" who praises themselves are narcissist.
@neXMetal Yes I am arrogant. I can admit it, but you are too. Every human is arrogant in some wy or another. So whining about someone calling you arrogant is pointless because they are too.
It actually can be proven simply by the miracles I have had in my life and the miracles around the world which I already know you will argue that those are made up so don't bother.
How does not believing in which scientifically cannot be proven make atheism arrogant?
Of course, scientifically, those miracles probably shouldn't be taken into consideration becase they are yours alone, but you still haven't said why exactly atheism is so arrogant. We just don't believe in something that we cannot know exists.
This still doesn't answer my question. I asked how atheism was arrogant. We don't believe it, but that doesn't mean we all openly attempt to disprove it. How does that make Atheism arrogant?
Only you said that you were arrogant. I was expecting a no answer actually, attempting to say that belief doesn't make a person arrogant. Why should we restrict ourselves in our life for something we don't know exists.
You called the lack of belief in a 'God' arrogant. I want to know why.
@neXMetal Yes it does. I answered your question clear as day and you refuse to see it. That simply means that you don't not believe, you just don't care.
Well I do know he exist, and I am not restricting myself. I have traveled around the US and hope to go to Israel next year. Where I atheist I would never be able to do that. Truthfully living as an atheist restricts yourself.
I did, you refused to listen. There is a difference between not believing and not caring. You don't care.
I am a theist as i guess you would call me, though to be honest i would call myself a christian. though im not here to try and sound arrogant, or start a flamewar, i do find your arguments and discussions interesting. im sorry that some people who claim to be religious would harass you for what you or rather should i say dont believe in. im only 15, and im trying to distinguish the difference between faith and ignorance for myself. so any point you make im more than happy to think about.
The point behind religion is faith in a God. A faith will often lead to a belief, which some people would defend to the death. Do they know for sure there is a God? I suppose not (it's called faith). But can you say for certain there isn't one? Please provide scientific fact. I'd say it's about as 50/50 of a subject as one can get.
I think more than anything I support religion. It provides people (usually) with a sense of good morals. It also provides something to live for, if nothing else does
I'm having a hard time watching this video and not thinking you come off as arrogant. But don't be discouraged, most atheists do. You come off as arrogant because you claim to know more about their belief than they do. You also are probably driving at the subject harder than most theists would do to you.
I don't think Atheism is arrogant. My personal opinion is to each his own. I bleieve in God, but some days I have slight doubts. I also don't agree when followers try so hard to convert somone they push them away. I can't prove Christ to anyone in a spiritual way, but I can follow my beiliefs and hope that I show people my belief. And it's only arrogant if you're no civil to others beliefs.
@jaller141 "There is no logical reason to be Atheist outside of saying "I'm right" ". The only thing an atheist would say as being 'right', the only thing all atheists agree on, is the jection of the exist of god(s), on the basis that is no logical reason to believe in god(s) - (no evidence etc).
The remainder of your comment refers to Pascals wager. This has been shown so many times to be false & it would take too long to go over, so I suggest a video for you to watch: watch?v=v9WRG4e6m2s&p
Honestly I see your point but in a different context. I am a Baptist and I go to a Catholic College. I've had headaches because of this. However I think your problem is this, and I have seen it in your other videos. When you speak to them are you telling them that you feel strongly that there is nothing greater than us or are you trying to point out flaws in the belief that there is a God in which case in all honesty you ARE arrogantly pointing out how they have no proof and only their faith.
Pointing out the lack of proof while having a conversation with a christian about the existance of lack thereof of god, is not arrogant! Of course the atheist is going to debate this point, and it is a valid point. The belief in god has many flaws (,well, to atheists), logically, and so it's only logical for non-believers to question it from time to time. Not believeing in something that appears fundamentally flawed on the surface is not arrogant.
@neXMetal I will note that the way you phrase it implies that I am saying all atheist are arrogant. I did not say that. What I said was that in a spiritual debate, since debating whether there is God or not does qualify, it is generally considered impolite and arrogant to come off as mocking in regards to something someone holds in Faith. For instance, I hold no faith in confession. Now when debating this topic with my catholic friends I have two choices.
@neXMetal Choice number one, insult how they need some random guy to give them a list of chores to complete to absolve their sins, or choice two discuss that I feel asking forgiveness from God needs to be done on a more personal level and it is not up to a mortal agent as to whether or not you have been forgiven. By stating the nonsensical points (to men) my argument is more arrogant since by doing so I have already implied that I feel they are foolish before even giving them a chance to respond
@FatCat3390 I see your point, but if nobody questioned the faith in which believers have, there would be only believers. I never implied that you said all atheists were arrogant, what I was commenting on was that atheists will inevitably, and innocently, point out the lack of proof of god. In the video he is pointing out that there isn't anything solid, and so has no reason to believe, and therefore doesn't believe. This means that he will say that god doesn't exist subconsciously.
@neXMetal True, but the reason I feel he might of come across as arrogant is because of other videos he has posted. For example the video where he asks about Abraham. The question can only be answered by the believer in some faith based way, but if someone refuses to accept that answer and demands a scientific one then they are refusing to accept that they DO believe. It really comes down to proper phrasing to avoid stubbed toes, it's fine not to believe but in debate always try to be courteous
an observation: the more powerful and stern their deity is made, the more zealous the individual is about telling you that you are wrong and will go to hell
Religion is notorious for claiming the moral high ground, which on it's own is the ultimate in arrogance. Why is it that controversial things like abortion and such are considered "wrong" because religion says so. Who is religion to decide what's "good" or "wrong" in this world?
Then, when someone chooses to believe something else or nothing at all, they're ridiculed and persecuted by the largest business in the world (the church), or killed (crusades, etc). Its no better than racism.
Following that, Atheism has absolutely nothing to do with the belief in human superiority, its strictly a non-belief in religion. An atheist denies that there is a supreme being that created us all in his self image and shakes a finger at us telling us no from a million years in the past. If you believe it to be more than that, it's just a display of ignorance.
Religion is notorious for claiming the moral high ground in situations, which on it's own is the ultimate in arrogance.
So wait, if an atheist can't prove that something doesn't exist, that makes them arrogant? Does that kind of reverse logic really make sense? Arrogance is enforcing your beliefs on others, talking with your friends after church saying how the guy across the street is going to hell because he doesn't believe in the same god as you.
Atheists deny the existence of god, but they don't make assumptions about how the world was created.
"Knowledge begins with the admission of ignorance"
Arrogance and Atheism only seems to occur in relation to the vocal atheist, who openly challenges the religious views of others.
Its a behaviour which typically isnt accepted within the nation i reside in (Australia), primarily due to a fairly "keep to your own buisiness" attitude.
Atheism is only arrogance, when you say "There is no God" as opposed to "I do not believe in God" Same with "You are going to hell, for not believing in god"
The difference in them and you is that they believe it is right to believe something without knowing it, and you believe that it is wrong to believe something without knowing it. Atheists argue reason,and then specifically state something that can never and will never be capable of being proved.Theists,as you call them,argue that faith must be prevalent in life,and that they must believe WITHOUT proof.Because of these two things,you are a hypocrite,and they are not,UNTIL they call you arrogant.
17 years old and have told my friends that I am an atheist. They accept me, but others were astonished that I didn't believe in a god, and I was actually told that I was arrogant for not believing, because they thought I "knew that there wasn't a god". I couldn't possibly know this, I just BELIEVE that there isn't one. Yet, they go around claiming to KNOW there is a god. And, they can't possibly know it for sure. I just don't get how I'm the arrogant one for believing that a god doesn't exist.
You bring up a good point. Certainly there is arrogance in people, but this isn't bordered to being either religious or atheist. It depends what you do with it that makes you arrogant, not what you believe...
I definitely agree to you, religious fanatics often say Oxymorons.
And think about this:
Religious people say that someone had to make all the things in the universe, but then where did that person (or "god") come from? They never look at it from that aspect.
I am a fellow "Athiest", but I would NEVER challange someone elses beliefs.
If someone came up to me who was, Sikh for example, I'm not going to rant at them...
People who do such ARE arrogant. I respect all religions and enjoy learning about them. As a Historian I find religions are so rich in History of civilization and human socialial systems.
True, it's hard to prove the existence of a god. It is however impossible to prove that he/she/it doesn't exist. For example, I've never seen snow, but that doesn't disprove it's existence.
If you try to convince me of god's existence (or non existence) refusing to accept the truth of the above, then yes. You're arrogant.
Ironically, the only way you could be sure that no god existed would be if you were omnipotent - aware of everything, all the time (arguably a god-like ability).
@mahkid1 oh HO! good argument, how ever your missing one very important detail, from the understanding i have of the atheists i know, atheisum argument isnt that god dosent exist its just the fact that we hope people to take into account that he may NOT exist people live there lives according to something that may not even be real i find this very sad. if he dose indeed exist then i cross the bridge when it comes, but because im a furry. im supposedly damned to hell anyway, so who cares
@mahkid1 Atheism is the ultimate arrogance. Since we have not found other intelligent life in the universe, Atheism is the belief that we are the supreme intelligence in our universe. Theism at least admits that we're lost. That's all I'm saying. Show me an atheist that claims to still be confused about life and I'll show you a man on the brink of believing in God with all his might.
@mahkid1 True, it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of god. But it is far more logical to accept something as non-existent than it is to accept everything that we cannot disprove as true. That is a common logical fallacy. Just because no one can disprove unicorns, magical fairies, etc. does not mean we should take all these things as being true.
Can you prove that god(or any other being of a higher power) does not exist, as easily as others can prove that god does exist? The existance of god lies in the beliefs of those in this world that fallow god, and the non-existance of god lies in the beliefs of those are are atheist. There have been as many inexplicable events as there have been those that could be explained. So, I have a question for you. would it not be trivial to think either way?
Atheism is not arrogance unless the individual person (Atheist) is acting like a bible thumper with no solid ground to stand on. In general Atheists merely question and that is not arrogance but the natural and intelligent path of a human being. I find far more intellectual minds that are Agnostic or Atheist than those of one the monotheistic branches.
please tell me if i am wrong. it would be arrogant to think i had something to do-with/add-to the truths of our universe, regardless of a higher power or not. Believing in god or not in and of itself has nothing to do with arrogance and it's simple opinion that may cause us to think of athiests or any other groups as arrogant as a whole. The only way i could imagine being arrogant in my atheism would be to think that i believe there is no God because i'm smart enough to KNOW there is no God
@blattt188. Im not sure if you are just adding to my point or making some other statement? it sounds like your just adding to mine. anyway to add to yours. I dont think it promises persecution and hate from the entire world. Many people in the world are Christian. And even if your not whoever you are you have a big group of people to persecute/hate you. Think of a religion or belief or stand that wont have a group against them?
i dont think people are arrogant cuz they are atheist. That's ridiculous, but i do find a lot of atheists are in fact arrogant. Not for anything stated in these comments or in this video. I don't mean to generalize but from my exp., from most atheists i know, they have a tenancy to look down on people who have beliefs. And that is arrogance i have noticed. No one is better than anyone else becuz of their belief system and its sad that i dont get the same respect from atheists that i give to them
The arrogance goes both ways, from my experience, but yes, I've noticed it in a couple atheists. Maybe it's because they've been forced to believe in something, and they finally broke free of that belief and now feel very good about themselves. I had the same feeling when I realized I was an atheist, but I never waved it around in peoples' faces. I've sort of.. "calmed down", I guess would be a decent phrase to describe it. It's just me now, nothing new and exciting. Feels good
@invaderzim196 what irks us is, there is no logic behind blind faith. its often pushed on others, and usually, they are entirely unwilling to consider the other side of the argument. you may say, we wont consider it either, but, that is in fact wrong. you cant just tell us we have to take on faith what you perceive as a special personal feeling is the utter and final truth. i pose a question: Why is it that your religion is almost always that of your parents, and its always the right one?
@greatjengofett "Why is it that your religion is almost always that of your parents, and its always the right one?" If your asking me specifically, its not, i have no idea what my parents actually believe, they are the kinda people who just dont talk about it. If it was just a general question you should reword it to "Why is it that your religion is almost always that of ones parents, and its always the right one?". And even that is not accurate.
its not a steriotype, but most atheists i come accross are cool when it comes to sex, drugs, money & music, but they are soo cruel & mocking when it comes to God. Not just any god, but the God of the Bible always seems to trigger some deep set fury in people.
The way I see it is, both of us have our ways to prove our own argument. Thing is, athiests i have met try to prove their point with science/evolution where as God believers use a spiritual feeling to prove theirs. I something about being able to feel something is true works better to me rather than just hearing something. The main reason i have seen a God believer go athiest is when his faith in God didnt work out how they planned it to work out.
@Raidre "when his faith in God didnt work out how they planned" yeah, that's usually how it is: most religions & philosophies promise earthly pleasure, prosperity & fulfillment, but the Gospel promises persecution & hate from the entire world if you do the will of God(who is not of this world)
atheism is not just arrogant but fucking militant , no wonder people hate atheist . just look at famous atheist , stalin killed 30-40 million , mao killed 60 million , pol pot 2.5 million etc etc
We're arrogant because we ARE more intelligent. /end of story
love how a non-existant entity can create itself thru supernatural means when it itself cannot be an entity and therefore cannot create or destroy. PARADOX GOOOOO!
The way I see it is, both of us have our ways to prove our own argument. Thing is, athiests i have met try to prove their point with science/evolution where as God believers use a spiritual feeling to prove theirs. I something about being able to feel something is true works better to me rather than just hearing something. The main reason i have seen a God believer go athiest is when his faith in God didnt work out how they planned it to work out.
Yes. Most theists are generally terrible arguers. I guess maybe most theists don't prepare themselves to argue as a atheist would. Which is generally why I see more atheists with intellectual responses.
I generally think most of these arguments will either be the theist acting illogically. Generally sending forward insults towards the atheists. Or vice versa
Or end up with 2 equally intelligent people arguing. Then eventually leading up to neither side agreeing
[Using xian concepts as an example as they are the prevalent flavor around here]
On occasion I too get called arrogant for stating 'No, I am not buying the flood or your invisible friend and his dad and the talking snake etc,etc.' ... or similar.
That always reeks of projection, Really?
Lets recap:Tell me again about your personal deep loving relationship w the son of the creator of the universe who loves you back and wrote a life/rulebook for you. Now THAT'S arrogance.
[Using xian concepts as an example as they are the prevalent flavor around here]
On occasion I too get called arrogant for stating 'No, I am not buying the flood or your invisible friend and his dad and the talking snake etc,etc.' ... or similar.
That always reeks of projection, Really?
Lets recap:Tell me again about your personal deep loving relationship w the son of the creator of the universe who loves you back and wrote a life/rulebook for you. Now THAT'S arrogance.
[Using xian concepts as an example as they are the prevalent flavor around here]
On occasion I too get called arrogant for stating 'No, I am not buying the flood or your invisible friend and his dad and the talking snake etc,etc.' ... or similar.
That always reeks of projection, Really?
Lets recap:Tell me again about your personal deep loving relationship w the son of the creator of the universe who loves you back and wrote a life/rulebook for you. Now THAT'S arrogance.
@Kage717 Theist or Atheist, who cares really? People should believe in what they want to believe. You can believe in nothing all you want, while others believe in something, that is how the world will always be. I know plenty of atheist but they never flaunt their beliefs or preach on youtube. Sad bro, Sad.
I can't rate your arrogance in the discussions you have--and you didn't ask me to--but I can imagine that you might exhibit it by the way you present those who are calling you on your arrogance. I've never ever been present where any group has praised itself for its modesty.
One is not stupid or naive because he or she sees a Designer behind obvious design. Herein is where I have experienced arrogance in debate. I hope you do not alienate your debaters by this judgmental error.
Don't theists and atheists share the same arrogance? One says "I know for certain god exists and he exists in this particular manner"
While atheists say "Well I know for certain that there is no god or after-life"
Both cannot actually prove either of their stances. And in the case of an afterlife the same holds true...has any human died for a considerable amount of time and awoke to tell of it? Treat your fellow human with respect and dignity. We are all we have right now.
@ocelechi Respectfully, I am a theist. Yet, I do not make the statement you have said pertains to the theist. My belief in God is based on evidence--evidence that appeals to my senses, evidence that appeals to my sense of purpose. Nature is beautiful and exquisitely diverse and adapted--not merely adequate. Nature is extremely complex and adapted to self-correct itself. It would take great faith for me to believe that this came about by chance or self-correcting natural selection.
I am definitely arrogant. And proud of that fact.
ClaireLytton 5 months ago
@ClaireLytton Thats the spirit! :D
cooldude8912 5 months ago
Atheist arent arrogant--- just some theist are really stupid..
badpanda84 6 months ago
Got a comment about why atheists keep bringing up the God conversation. Religion is simply a way of grasping people by offering them a simple explanation to the complexities of life, making it easy to accept. However the unyielding faith you have without any need for actual proof is also a means to socially program you to not ask questions. I could care less myself about what anyone chooses to believe, however when you apply that conditioning to other matters such as government...
UnruleySheep 6 months ago
@UnruleySheep patriot acts happen
UnruleySheep 6 months ago
I would concede that Christian can fall into the trap of arrogance. Far from excusing it, arrogance, and self righteousness are part of the human condition. The Word of God rails against it repeatedly, and many Christians fall into the trap (not excluding myself at times!) of engaging non-believers without the full council of God in their hearts.
MrOzanachronism 6 months ago
That aside, whether you're atheist or theist, you have to believe something always existed, whether it is 'In the beginning, God...' or 'In the beginning matter/cosmic soup...' Both are things you can't see, but the former can, in fact, be scientifically proven, or proven in objective, rational, metaphysical dialectical debate, and engaging systems of thought of all traditions of thought.
Aside from that, if you have to prove everything ontologically, it's not faith. Atheism is faith too.
MrOzanachronism 6 months ago
The fact that I used to be even harder-hearted against anything to do with God and religion, subscribing to every speculative humanist musing in my academic life is proof of an omniscient and omnipresent spirit that thoroughly extirpated my haughty ego, intellectually arrogance and ultimately brought me to my knees.
MrOzanachronism 6 months ago
You're right. It is important, and you raise some valid points. It is possible to know that there is a living God, outside of our temporal and spatial realm. I used to be an atheist vexed by the same questions you have.
MrOzanachronism 6 months ago
Yo guys, I was having this convo with an Atheist and he was talking about how he hates people who don't understand definitions. But basically he was saying how arrogance and hypocrisy are one in the same all the while acting like he was intelligent. Not to mention blanket statements rock.
Sprungjeezy 7 months ago
loving the eyebrow!
floghit 7 months ago
atheists usually are pretty damn arrogant. not quite sure why they always wanna bring the subject of religion up and keep reminding me they are atheist, and are always trying to corner me with questions.
ZombieChimps 7 months ago
No. Theism is arrogant as it claims absolute certainty about things it can't even defend properly. Atheism merely is a rejection of these theistic dogma's. How can that ever be arrogant?
ScientificBob 8 months ago
Atheism isn't arrogant... it's their adherents who give that impression. There is nothing offensive about a statement like "there is no afterlife or reincarnation". Put a human with emotions behind the statement and more often than not they say something like "you are an idiot to believe in a heaven fairytale". Big difference.
MsColdCanada 8 months ago
Why is someone screaming for his life at 0.20 ?? LOL
Paranoid70 8 months ago 2
A common mistake people make is the difference between hard and soft, or strong and weak atheism, as I've heard it said.
Hard atheism is the belief there is no god.
Soft atheism is the lack of belief in a god. Two very different things, though they appear similar. Very few atheists, while they might say the former definition to describe themselves, will identify with it when you mention the latter.
Because hard atheism is claiming to know everything, even beyond our finite being.
EaiteFojdcee 9 months ago
@EaiteFojdcee Strong atheism isn't necessarily an absolute claim. Even Dawkins says in his book "there probably are no gods". And this statement is concluded from rational reasoning.
Just like we conclude that there probably aren't unicorns or a santa claus... we can't prove it for 100% (because negative statements of existance can't even be proven)... but through reasoning and rational argumentation we come to the conclusion that there probably is no such thing. And that's fine.
ScientificBob 8 months ago
@ScientificBob Yes, but the commonly referenced definition itself for atheism is "the belief that there is no god." Which is a ridiculous belief, because we don't know for sure either way.
The magic word is "probably." Now, the likelihood can be debated, but as long as someone doesn't make an extreme claim, that's just dandy.
EaiteFojdcee 7 months ago
@EaiteFojdcee Nobody "knows" that unicorns don't exist and that goes for ANYTHING your imagination can come up with - including gods. The word "probably" should technically be included everywhere. For practical purposes this is not done. You are either a theist or an atheist. There is no "third" option. You either believe or you don't. 'I don't know' is not believing, which makes you atheist.
ScientificBob 7 months ago
You know i get the same shit every day by people who are hard core christans. I mean really what the hell people. You say you know things about something that may or may not exist when the fact is is that you got half of christianity from OTHER pagan beliefs. Gods image came from Zeus. The pitchfork of the Devil came from Neptune. Those are 2 of the thousands of others.
MihiAsinusEst 10 months ago
Atheist - You're claiming that you know something you can't possibly know, and what you're claiming also doesn't make any sense. It makes a lot more sense to me that we just accept that there are things we don't know and move on.
Christian - God made the entire universe for me and my fellow man, and loves us above all things, and when we die we get to spend all of eternity with him in a special place and be happy forever.
Hmm... which is more arrogant...
TheTexanCanadian 11 months ago
@TheTexanCanadian I agree. You are always going to have some idiots. Hell, look at politics. Psh, look at psychology. Can someone say Sigmund Freud?
faveology 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Telling other people what they can and cannot possibly know does not make you look less intellectually arrogant.
scruffthemagicdragon 11 months ago
@Kage717 you shouldnt stereotype people its kind of insulting, you make us look like self righteous jerks because we believe in a higher power...
Moofantor 11 months ago
@Moofantor You shouldn't judge. Let God decide his fate. Be a real religious person and abide by your own laws. :P
faveology 10 months ago
i had to become an atheist before i became a true christian.
monkeyhead360 1 year ago
Would you rather believe that there is an afterlife, or would you believe that when you die, there is nothing? I think the reason people believe in any religion in the first place is that they are afraid to die, and what happens to them when they're dead. Isn't it more comforting to believe that there is in fact an afterlife?
xeridon1337 1 year ago
@xeridon1337 I don't think they're afraid to die. I think they just have a hard time grasping the concept of life. I'm not religious, but I will defend religious people. I will also defend non-religious people. To be honest, I'm pro-choice. I'm not saying that we should go anarchy, as that would be completely idiotic, but I am pro-choice. Anyways, haven't you ever wondered what will happen when we die? It's hard to understand our brain's complexity. :/
faveology 10 months ago
@xeridon1337 "Would you rather believe that there is an afterlife, or would you believe that when you die, there is nothing" I would rather believe what is actually correct, not what pleases me or what gives me fuzzy feelings.
"Isn't it more comforting to believe that there is in fact an afterlife" This doesn't make sense to me. How is it more comforting to believe that you might end up in a dungeon of torture for eternity?
ScientificBob 8 months ago
you strike me as a very arrogant person and not because your an atheist. I have atheist friends that respect me despite the fact that I'm a christian and i respect them despite the fact that they are atheists. You just have preach on and on and on, and the truth is you are not making a difference. If anyone has a problem with you being an atheist, flip em the finger and tell them to gtfo and stop wasting your breath.
kamiluvsyew 1 year ago
i wish people would stop trying to convert others into what they believe.. ill let you think what you want and respect it, as long as you let me believe in what i believe and respect it.
soccerdawg17 1 year ago
@soccerdawg17 the reason people try to convert is most simply put this way, lets say a truck(hell) is headed towards you on a highway but you REFUSE to accept that it's coming well im not going to just sit there and watch you get hit by the truck im going to try and push you out of the way which basically means im trying to stop you from living an eternal nightmare in hell. even IF this truck doesnt exist wouldnt you say its worth it to try and push you out of the way?
Moofantor 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Are you not claiming things you don't know?
Xpertman213 1 year ago
Do atheists ever give thanks for anything?
ethicomm 1 year ago
@ethicomm of course we do! We give thanks to the doctors for saving lives, to the scientists for trying to find cures to diseases, to the rescuers for saving the lives of the Chilean miners, to teachers for educating, to police officers for protecting, to volunteer workers, human rights defenders...do you get the point?
penguinlaughter 1 year ago
@penguinlaughter Then you're probably giving thanks to people that give thanks to God! God bless you! †.
ethicomm 1 year ago
Many "Christians" are very arrogant. You'll have to see that some of them are just... stupid. I believe there is a God, and I believe in the Christian God. Though I don't thing you're arrogant. You're just trying to figure things out like the rest of us. Not many "Christians" are real and actually think about what we claim to believe, but some of us do. Really dig into the religion in your own way, you'll be surprised by what you'll find.
musicismyfavorite777 1 year ago 8
@musicismyfavorite777 Yes, you'll find your own interpretation, unless you go asking other what something means. Then you may get mixed messages, or you may find a "group" who follow the same idea. I don't think religion or theism is the place to start when looking for answers, unless you want answers to questions like, "What color is hope?", because no question is stupid, but not every question has an answer. What people will do is try to represent everything by what they know, that is all.
AnonymousReasons 9 months ago
I really don't see the reason to believe in anything, shouldn't your life right now be the thing you want to put your time into? whoever created us or how we were made is something that I just do not care to find out, because I'm alive right now, and I'm making sure I enjoy it and the life around me.
TheBestArob 1 year ago
arrogant or ignorant?
wicketts16 1 year ago
@wicketts16 i think he meant ignorant
tchlab 1 year ago
@wicketts16 I agree. If you are contradicting yourself, then you are a hypocrite, which many of us relate to ignorance. :P
faveology 10 months ago
I will not come here to preach to you. Only to give my opinion. To be completely honest, all science is just theories. All scientist will agree. Now I'm not saying that things in the bible are more true compared to science but if you "gave it a try" , for lack of a better phrase, I think you would see just why Christians feel the connection to God. All I ask is for you to think about it. Let God do the rest but remember, he can only work in you if you allow him to.
Muggsnet 1 year ago
@Muggsnet If science were just theories, you wouldn't have the computer to type your opinion on, you wouldn't have a cell phone to talk to others, you wouldn't have a car to take you places. How do you explain that? Or maybe it was God who created them? Also, many people become atheists AFTER reading the bible, so they know what they left behind, don't worry.
penguinlaughter 1 year ago
@penguinlaughter cool game can I play? If Religion was just theories you wouldnt have thumbs to type with... amidoinitrite?
bukojuko 1 year ago
@bukojuko Thumbs allow us to grasp things better. Scientists and evolutionists alike believe that we share common ancestors with tree dwellers. In other words, our thumbs also helped with the aspect of climbing trees.
faveology 10 months ago
@faveology You obviously missed the sarcasm, I was replying to Penguinlaughter who basically is saying that the fact that computers, cars and cellphones exist...disprooves the existence of a creator. Which is really dumb...So I will use the same dumb logic
bukojuko 9 months ago
@penguinlaughter No they don't.. LOL. None of my atheist friends have ever read the bible. The only reason why they know some of the bible is because I tell them about it, or they hear it from someone else. To be honest, I think most atheists are stupid too. Why are suicide rates rising? Stress is growing higher. Depression is also on the rise. Why is this? Two reasons: 1) The economy is shit. 2) People don't know what to believe anymore. God used to be an escape goat and relief for people.
faveology 10 months ago
Athiesm isn't arrogant, YOU are arrogant.
onlyashadow1121 1 year ago
Neither sides can convince eachother. I could say that the evolutionary theory is BS and point out why, and you could defend it with your own reasoning. You could say that the Bible is complete BS and point out why, and I could defend it with my reasoning. Honestly, I'm just happier looking forward to something, having positive morals, and, of course, God to watch over me. You could argue that it's a placebo effect and I'd know you're wrong. Both sides sound arrogant at this point.
DreadedScourge 1 year ago
fact and fiction work as a team :)
4verageMan 1 year ago
I believe both sides are arrogant. The truth is, no matter how convincing your argument is, neither side will EVER change their mind. Atheists truly believe they are right, in the same manner that Theists do. Realistically, there is no way to prove either side. You CANNOT prove God exists, and you CANNOT prove god doesn't exist. This is why I try to avoid this conversation with friends. In the end I feel like preaching against religion is a way of trying to remove what COMFORTS people.
meshak04 1 year ago 15
@meshak04
Seldom do Atheists attempt to persuade Theists... But the reverse does come up often.
I say (Agnostic) I disbelieve because I have not witnessed any proof. I'd rather be ignorant of a possible truth because I do not wish to accept it without any proof, then blindly believe in something that has no evidence.
The main difference there, is they are drawing "truth" without proof, and I am merely disregarding an Idea because there is no proof.
Anyone can have an idea.
pyropope 1 year ago
@pyropope I really disagree. I believe that both sides do try to persuade. I think its nearly impossible to discuss the topic with people of both sides without one person trying to persuade. This is due to when you have a difference of opinion, you give EVIDENCE, this evidence is really just pieces of persuasion.
Also, you are being arrogant by saying those who believe in God are wrong - meaning you are 100% right. I can say the exact same thing to you. Prove God doesn't exist. You can't.
meshak04 1 year ago
@meshak04
What I said was that anyone can claim something to be true, and create a set of rules which prevent it from being false. In this case, God exists outside of the bounds of logic / reason because he can do anything. In order to "prove" him wrong i would need to use logic or reason which are not applicable to this omnipotent hypothetical being.
NPH is really god. He has merely taken the form of a man to test us. He has designed his disguise perfectly. Prove me wrong.
See what I mean?
pyropope 1 year ago
@pyropope That's such a bizarre statement. To "prove" him wrong you'd need to use logic? because logic is the opposite of belief? so in order to prove something wrong, you must prove the opposite? I'm sitting in a blue chair, prove me wrong - by telling me i sit in a red chair. Wrong. Proof must be something tangible - something one can absorb with the senses. Since you cannot see God, you cannot say he doesn't exist. There is just no way of arguing against that. There is ZERO proof either way.
meshak04 1 year ago
@meshak04 You are completely missing my point. Logic is needed to reach any conclusion, proof or disproof. I said that proving he doesn't exist will never happen. Anything which by its own definition is Omnipotent cannot be proven wrong, as they have the ability to do anything.
I am not saying there is proof that he doesn't exist. I am saying I personally do not believe ANYTHING without proof. Since there is no proof, I choose to not believe.
This is an opinion, not persuasion or an attack.
pyropope 1 year ago
@pyropope That's fine, I was never arguing whether God was real or not. But some things just don't make sense. There are things that cannot be explained, regardless of how much logic is applied to it. I don't believe in God either, but I cannot tell anyone he doesn't exist, because I can't prove that. But realistically, religion makes people feel good, and gives them comfort, even if I could prove God didn't exist, would I really want to take that from people?
meshak04 1 year ago
@meshak04
I cannot prove him wrong, Nor can ANYONE. No one will EVER prove his existence to be false. People have provided explanations to things previously thought to be Gods work that did not involve supernatural, but even these are speculation as there is no proof that they did cause them, just that they were capable of causing them.
I understand people like to believe in God for the comfort of not being alone, and they may even be right. They nor I will ever be proven one way or the other.
pyropope 1 year ago
@meshak04 I agree you can't prove that God or a God exist but you can prove that idealogies are wrong. I don't necessarily agree with every idea that Christians have about God (I was raised Christian), but I also don't completely agree there is or is not a God. Christians always say "we are sinners by nature", but they also say "we are made in God's image". Wouldn't that make their own God who they claim to be perfect NOT perfect. (That was just one example). Counter argument, anyone?
wicketts16 10 months ago
@meshak04 Actually I just thought I should point out that Atheists aren't necessarily saying that a god definitely doesn't exist they just deny a current belief through lack of evidence. Theists however typically say that they KNOW their god exists (I'm not saying all theists believe this but the vast majority that I've met do). So please don't think that agnosticism is a moral high ground it's more of an intellectual uncertainty where conclusion isn't drawn in either direction.
ThomasClarke93 10 months ago
@meshak04
1) Logic does not necessitate a proof of non-existence. In fact your lack of belief in fairies, unicorns, and leprechauns are all BASED on [no evidence --> no proof of existence --> no belief].
2) Religion comforts AND harms people. Meanwhile there are means to comfort WITHOUT HARM to ANYONE and every single one of them is not based on religious ideas.
3) Comfort does not imply truth. And more often than not requires ignoring reality. Which harms more than it helps.
Etc, etc.
onijester56 10 months ago
@onijester56
1. I think you're agreeing with me.
2. How does it harm people? Religion does not cause wars, it is certain people who interpret their religion to mean one thing, and attempting to enforce it, which is most likely more of a form of mental illness than anything.
3.Why does something need to be true in order to comfort you? If you're poor and you hope and believe things will get better, that's not comfort? If reality is the only thing that matters then there is no such thing as love
meshak04 10 months ago
@meshak04
1) You completely miss the point. UNTIL EVIDENCE IS PRESENTED OTHERWISE, you do not believe that X exists and you base your decisions as though X does not exist. It is those who make the claim that X exists that must provide evidence...And if they don't then you are 10000% justified to both reject the claim and believe that X does not exist UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE.
2) Actually it is the religion. Religions are the series of rituals based on interpretation of the myths told.
(cont)
onijester56 10 months ago
(cont)
*edit* series of rituals, practices, and laws
As such, that the RELIGION has ENTIRE SETS OF LAWS that FORCE people to USE VIOLENCE against those that don't believe in that god, and even those that do if it's the wrong interpretation of the god, it is the Religion that causes the violence.
Additionally, if someone has a mental disease that inclines them to steal, we still put the responsibility on the person and not the disease. It's the same exact thing on larger scales.
(cont)
onijester56 10 months ago
(cont)
3) If it's not true, then it leads to a false comfort. When it comes into question, the comforted will reject reality. This will lead to disassociation from society, and subsequently an incapability to connect to anything let alone love someone else.
"If reality is the only thing that matters then there is no such thing as love" Attraction on various levels, from primal lust to platonic fulfillment, is demonstrable on every level and has observable effects. Hence "Love" is "real". :P
onijester56 10 months ago
@onijester56 it's really dim witted to try to use leprechauns unicorns or fairies. yes they all,besides the unicorn, can turn invisible/can hide due to small size ,but what it fails to take into account is the fact that all of them are supposed residents of earth and therefore would be seen by people eventually because they aren't all knowing or all seeing and so won't always get a chance to hide. God(s) on the other hand exist on the ethereal plane and so can't be seen.
DarkJoker7 9 months ago
@DarkJoker7 "God(s) on the other hand exist on the ethereal plane and so can't be seen." Yet he's supposed to interact with the world in observable ways. At the very least, God would send angels to do his work. And yet there's no evidence of either God or angels outside of the realm of fantasy.
However if God does not concern himself with this plane of existence then this plane of existence should not concern itself with God. "Do unto others..." and what-not.
onijester56 9 months ago
@onijester56 interacting from another plane would be akin to being in a spectrum of light the human eye can't detect. we're not equipped to see anything be it a god or otherwise that exists within that spectrum. (not saying planes exist in spectrum of light this is just an example thought i suppose they could) there could be strange animals we haven't met yet living in it but we can't see them. The god then being all powerful could interact within any plane without leaving it.
DarkJoker7 9 months ago
@DarkJoker7 "interacting from another plane would be akin to being in a spectrum of light the human eye can't detect." You mean like infrared rays that we use to deliver messages? X-rays that we use to examine people? Microwaves that we use to cook food? Radio waves that we use to communicate?
If God had ANY impact on this plane of existence then we WOULD BE ABLE TO OBSERVE THE EFFECTS. All the more-so if he's "all-powerful" because we would see macroscopic changes without any sort of cause.
onijester56 9 months ago
@onijester56 not really your thinking "god affects world -> world changes to god's will -> man goes wtf as the world randomly shifts around him -> god is discovered" when the thing is if you have the power to do whatever you want and ignore the rules normal people/things/what have you, have to follow you can make changes and no one would know if you didn't want them to, but usually no changes are needed especially larger ones, however if they were made it would be akin to the time travel theory-
DarkJoker7 9 months ago
@DarkJoker7 "when the thing is if you have the power to do whatever you want and ignore the rules normal people/things/what have you, have to follow you can make changes and no one would know if you didn't want them to" The god who would hide completely from people while demanding worship AND punishing them for not worshipping is not worthy of belief. If you can even call such a malevolent entity "God".
And the rammifications of rewriting events as you propose God does...
And why your god?
onijester56 9 months ago
@onijester56 that says that if you changed the past the future wouldn't notice because to them the past hasn't changed and has always been that way though it has effected them completely and utterly. you can still trust your mind because it'll change too as the past changes, but you wouldn't notice at all.
also all those things you mentioned were forms of light yes but you must have completely ignored my parenthetical statement. The point was we can't see it we can manipulate them but
DarkJoker7 9 months ago
@DarkJoker7 "you can still trust your mind because it'll change too as the past changes, but you wouldn't notice at all." Then why didn't God eliminate Slavery? World War 2? Suffering? The countless thousands of religions and pantheons that are wrong? The seperation of languages?
"you must have completely ignored my parenthetical statement" We can't 'see' light, but we know it exists based on its effects and can manipulate it. Your parenthetical statement has no bearing on that fact.
onijester56 9 months ago
@onijester56 my point was to show that things can exist beyond our perceptions, and as for all that stuff about why a deity wouldn't eliminate all those things what i figure is that in order to give us free will god consciously denies himself certain levels of interference as the only plausible way free will works is if we are allowed to do the wrong thing. i'd rather have free will and eventually learn from my mistakes then not and always get cleaned up after..
DarkJoker7 9 months ago
@DarkJoker7 "my point was to show that things can exist beyond our perceptions" Things themselves. Your point fails, however, in that we can observe how those things affect the world in ways that CAN BE PERCEIVED. Hence the different 'light types', that we KNOW despite being INVISIBLE because we can OBSERVE EFFECTS.
"in order to give us free will god consciously denies himself certain levels of interference" Free will is NOT FREE if the punishment for using it is eternal suffering.
onijester56 9 months ago
(cont)
"the only plausible way free will works is if we are allowed to do the wrong thing" 'wrong' as arbitrarily defined by the entity supposedly providing the free will.
Also, there is a problem in that if Hell is based on belief then actions are useless. A murderer can get into heaven when someone who has never heard of God will suffer forever regardless of his selflessness.
Or if it's being 'good' then there's no reason to believe, especially at your level of irrationality.
onijester56 9 months ago
@onijester56 most "sins" are nothing more then human morality issues if you want to argue with me that murdering or raping is arbitrarily wrong then this conversation is over.
actually if you've never heard of it you considered an innocent and go to heaven regardless. "for it is better to know nothing of god then to know of him and reject him" i thinks the way the passage reads.
DarkJoker7 9 months ago
@DarkJoker7 [if you've never heard of it you considered an innocent and go to heaven regardless.] Then God is unjust to put such a double-standard. And also, using the Bible...Mark 16:16 is a good refutation. And so is John 14:6, as well. 2 Peter 2:21 isn't good enough.
["sins" are...human morality issues] Then God isn't needed to explain morality, which takes away a central reason to believe.
You really aren't making a good case to believe in your understanding/interpretations of God.
onijester56 9 months ago
@onijester56 The parts of the bible that references laying with a man as a sin as you would a woman is speaking about how in the past there was a practice of ritual raping a man that you had defeated or as religious ritual. the original translation (torah) of that passage shows this. english translations tend to simplify scenarios and create misunderstanding.
regardless of what your faith you should want to be good if this is irrational to you again i'm done speaking with you.
DarkJoker7 9 months ago
@DarkJoker7
[the original translation (torah) of that passage shows this] Actually nope. Not in Lev.20:13 or Lev.18:22. And sure as hell not in Rom.1:26-27. Not in Greek, Latin, or English of any. Neither literal nor annoted versions.
[regardless of what your faith you should want to be good] And you just proved that your God is evil and remarkably hubric. Congratulations, you admit to worshipping an egomanical immoral dictator. Without even responding to what I said!
onijester56 9 months ago
@onijester56 actually, it does talk to any Jewish person that can actually read Hebrew know this. the Christian version of the old testament is simplified and uses the wrong meanings of many words. the new testament as well has many transcription errors such as the fact the word for virgin in Hebrew is also the word used to address any young lady no matter if she's sexual active or not.
Also, what i was saying here is you were trying to say that if you just want to be good theres no reason
DarkJoker7 9 months ago
@onijester56 /watch?v=Bkgx9LebsFc there ya go, this shows what the true reading means.
DarkJoker7 9 months ago
@onijester56 to believe. i have easily covered all of your problems with everything you have or could have brought up. You mention irrationality but you are the one becoming slanderous and bohemian like with you're ill meant words and your obviously large leaps in logic that make no sense. What I said was that we should all want to be good regardless of our faith mine in a god and yours in the lack thereof. After all atheism is a humanistic religion. ouch did that hurt?
DarkJoker7 9 months ago
@onijester56 if you haven't discovered something invisible to you like a new form of light then you can't manipulate it, but i digress arguing over light wasn't the point, my point was that things exist beyond the ability for humans to see, smell hear, and taste. it's not a far jump for us to conclude there are things Us and our science can not comprehend or account for at the moment. not to say that it proves god but to say it proves that a god can exist.
DarkJoker7 9 months ago
@DarkJoker7 "if you haven't discovered something invisible to you" The thing is that we CAN discover what is invisible to us. Even for what we can't "manipulate", we can still DISCOVER.
"there are things Us and our science can not comprehend or account for at the moment" Argument from ignorance.
"it proves that a god can exist." The same 'logic' says that leprechauns 'can' exist. But you don't live your life believing that they leave pots of gold at the end of rainbows. Or do you?
onijester56 9 months ago
@meshak04 You can't disprove Hogwarts, this is what I got out of your comment.
AnonymousReasons 9 months ago
@meshak04 Well, you can't prove there isn't a HUGEASS mustard monster that is going to eat you tonight right? But really.. Do you expect anyone to believe me?
RoianES 8 months ago
Dude. Who cares about belief. We all dont really know what happend.
i think its all a bullshit story and that there is probably some spirtual shit out there but its difantly not the shit we believe in these days. But it really does not matter because we in reality do not know. You dont need to make all these videos about how someones belief is incorrect and how yours is fine. Just leave it.
bugkidd 1 year ago
There's arrogance on both sides, and modesty on both sides. You have, it seems, primarily encountered arrogant theists, as have I. However, I've encountered atheists who have thought of me as lesser and simple minded because of my belief in Christianity.
Both sides of the coin, man. You never bother to look at the other side.
axel198 1 year ago
0:19 - 0:25 dude geting raped HAHAHA
vevovy 1 year ago
It is obvious that the essence of any religions are Morales. When you acknowledge that fact there is no more reason to search for the source of those Morales, be it God, Satan, or the kid next door. The truth is people are so obsessed by what will happen after their lives (afraid of gods wrath for some) that they forget about the true Message ... Love each other. WHOEVER is attacking Kage 717 for is beliefs ... failed.
Live and let live.
Thank you.
D3vilNight 1 year ago
Atheism is arrogant. To be an atheist is arrogant. You also believe that you know things that you could not know. It is impossible to disprove God. In responce to the last part of your video, any "theist" who praises themselves are narcissist.
ArodWingfoot 1 year ago
@ArodWingfoot
It is also impossible to prove god.
You also believe that you know things that you could not know.
Does that make you arrogant?
You believe in something that cannot be proven. Why does not believing in something that cannot be proven make you arrogant?
neXMetal 1 year ago
@neXMetal Yes I am arrogant. I can admit it, but you are too. Every human is arrogant in some wy or another. So whining about someone calling you arrogant is pointless because they are too.
It actually can be proven simply by the miracles I have had in my life and the miracles around the world which I already know you will argue that those are made up so don't bother.
ArodWingfoot 1 year ago
@ArodWingfoot
My point still stands.
How does not believing in which scientifically cannot be proven make atheism arrogant?
Of course, scientifically, those miracles probably shouldn't be taken into consideration becase they are yours alone, but you still haven't said why exactly atheism is so arrogant. We just don't believe in something that we cannot know exists.
neXMetal 1 year ago
@neXMetal How does believing in something that scientifically cannot be disproven make Christianity arrogant?
Mine and about an uncountable amount of people alive currently and throughout history.
ArodWingfoot 1 year ago
@ArodWingfoot
This still doesn't answer my question. I asked how atheism was arrogant. We don't believe it, but that doesn't mean we all openly attempt to disprove it. How does that make Atheism arrogant?
Only you said that you were arrogant. I was expecting a no answer actually, attempting to say that belief doesn't make a person arrogant. Why should we restrict ourselves in our life for something we don't know exists.
You called the lack of belief in a 'God' arrogant. I want to know why.
neXMetal 1 year ago
@neXMetal Yes it does. I answered your question clear as day and you refuse to see it. That simply means that you don't not believe, you just don't care.
Well I do know he exist, and I am not restricting myself. I have traveled around the US and hope to go to Israel next year. Where I atheist I would never be able to do that. Truthfully living as an atheist restricts yourself.
I did, you refused to listen. There is a difference between not believing and not caring. You don't care.
ArodWingfoot 1 year ago
I am a theist as i guess you would call me, though to be honest i would call myself a christian. though im not here to try and sound arrogant, or start a flamewar, i do find your arguments and discussions interesting. im sorry that some people who claim to be religious would harass you for what you or rather should i say dont believe in. im only 15, and im trying to distinguish the difference between faith and ignorance for myself. so any point you make im more than happy to think about.
tomdamonkey999 1 year ago
The point behind religion is faith in a God. A faith will often lead to a belief, which some people would defend to the death. Do they know for sure there is a God? I suppose not (it's called faith). But can you say for certain there isn't one? Please provide scientific fact. I'd say it's about as 50/50 of a subject as one can get.
I think more than anything I support religion. It provides people (usually) with a sense of good morals. It also provides something to live for, if nothing else does
elbowmeat 1 year ago
I'm having a hard time watching this video and not thinking you come off as arrogant. But don't be discouraged, most atheists do. You come off as arrogant because you claim to know more about their belief than they do. You also are probably driving at the subject harder than most theists would do to you.
Comment continued....
elbowmeat 1 year ago
I don't think Atheism is arrogant. My personal opinion is to each his own. I bleieve in God, but some days I have slight doubts. I also don't agree when followers try so hard to convert somone they push them away. I can't prove Christ to anyone in a spiritual way, but I can follow my beiliefs and hope that I show people my belief. And it's only arrogant if you're no civil to others beliefs.
XmetalMusic 1 year ago
@jaller141 "There is no logical reason to be Atheist outside of saying "I'm right" ". The only thing an atheist would say as being 'right', the only thing all atheists agree on, is the jection of the exist of god(s), on the basis that is no logical reason to believe in god(s) - (no evidence etc).
The remainder of your comment refers to Pascals wager. This has been shown so many times to be false & it would take too long to go over, so I suggest a video for you to watch: watch?v=v9WRG4e6m2s&p
freetheworldof 1 year ago
@freetheworldof Sorry, can't spell. Should of course be rejection, not jection :)
freetheworldof 1 year ago
Honestly I see your point but in a different context. I am a Baptist and I go to a Catholic College. I've had headaches because of this. However I think your problem is this, and I have seen it in your other videos. When you speak to them are you telling them that you feel strongly that there is nothing greater than us or are you trying to point out flaws in the belief that there is a God in which case in all honesty you ARE arrogantly pointing out how they have no proof and only their faith.
FatCat3390 1 year ago
@FatCat3390
Pointing out the lack of proof while having a conversation with a christian about the existance of lack thereof of god, is not arrogant! Of course the atheist is going to debate this point, and it is a valid point. The belief in god has many flaws (,well, to atheists), logically, and so it's only logical for non-believers to question it from time to time. Not believeing in something that appears fundamentally flawed on the surface is not arrogant.
neXMetal 1 year ago
@neXMetal I will note that the way you phrase it implies that I am saying all atheist are arrogant. I did not say that. What I said was that in a spiritual debate, since debating whether there is God or not does qualify, it is generally considered impolite and arrogant to come off as mocking in regards to something someone holds in Faith. For instance, I hold no faith in confession. Now when debating this topic with my catholic friends I have two choices.
FatCat3390 1 year ago
@neXMetal Choice number one, insult how they need some random guy to give them a list of chores to complete to absolve their sins, or choice two discuss that I feel asking forgiveness from God needs to be done on a more personal level and it is not up to a mortal agent as to whether or not you have been forgiven. By stating the nonsensical points (to men) my argument is more arrogant since by doing so I have already implied that I feel they are foolish before even giving them a chance to respond
FatCat3390 1 year ago
@FatCat3390 I see your point, but if nobody questioned the faith in which believers have, there would be only believers. I never implied that you said all atheists were arrogant, what I was commenting on was that atheists will inevitably, and innocently, point out the lack of proof of god. In the video he is pointing out that there isn't anything solid, and so has no reason to believe, and therefore doesn't believe. This means that he will say that god doesn't exist subconsciously.
neXMetal 1 year ago
@neXMetal True, but the reason I feel he might of come across as arrogant is because of other videos he has posted. For example the video where he asks about Abraham. The question can only be answered by the believer in some faith based way, but if someone refuses to accept that answer and demands a scientific one then they are refusing to accept that they DO believe. It really comes down to proper phrasing to avoid stubbed toes, it's fine not to believe but in debate always try to be courteous
FatCat3390 1 year ago
you have an excellent point
through an eye of Buddhism I see the same issue
an observation: the more powerful and stern their deity is made, the more zealous the individual is about telling you that you are wrong and will go to hell
kaipakta 1 year ago
Religion is notorious for claiming the moral high ground, which on it's own is the ultimate in arrogance. Why is it that controversial things like abortion and such are considered "wrong" because religion says so. Who is religion to decide what's "good" or "wrong" in this world?
Then, when someone chooses to believe something else or nothing at all, they're ridiculed and persecuted by the largest business in the world (the church), or killed (crusades, etc). Its no better than racism.
StaticX27 1 year ago
Following that, Atheism has absolutely nothing to do with the belief in human superiority, its strictly a non-belief in religion. An atheist denies that there is a supreme being that created us all in his self image and shakes a finger at us telling us no from a million years in the past. If you believe it to be more than that, it's just a display of ignorance.
Religion is notorious for claiming the moral high ground in situations, which on it's own is the ultimate in arrogance.
StaticX27 1 year ago
So wait, if an atheist can't prove that something doesn't exist, that makes them arrogant? Does that kind of reverse logic really make sense? Arrogance is enforcing your beliefs on others, talking with your friends after church saying how the guy across the street is going to hell because he doesn't believe in the same god as you.
Atheists deny the existence of god, but they don't make assumptions about how the world was created.
"Knowledge begins with the admission of ignorance"
StaticX27 1 year ago
And just to point out, this guy oozes arrogance from every corner. Which religious group is he bashing anyways?
tpstrat14 1 year ago
Arrogance and Atheism only seems to occur in relation to the vocal atheist, who openly challenges the religious views of others.
Its a behaviour which typically isnt accepted within the nation i reside in (Australia), primarily due to a fairly "keep to your own buisiness" attitude.
Atheism is only arrogance, when you say "There is no God" as opposed to "I do not believe in God" Same with "You are going to hell, for not believing in god"
LeonNova666 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The difference in them and you is that they believe it is right to believe something without knowing it, and you believe that it is wrong to believe something without knowing it. Atheists argue reason,and then specifically state something that can never and will never be capable of being proved.Theists,as you call them,argue that faith must be prevalent in life,and that they must believe WITHOUT proof.Because of these two things,you are a hypocrite,and they are not,UNTIL they call you arrogant.
Alokue 1 year ago
17 years old and have told my friends that I am an atheist. They accept me, but others were astonished that I didn't believe in a god, and I was actually told that I was arrogant for not believing, because they thought I "knew that there wasn't a god". I couldn't possibly know this, I just BELIEVE that there isn't one. Yet, they go around claiming to KNOW there is a god. And, they can't possibly know it for sure. I just don't get how I'm the arrogant one for believing that a god doesn't exist.
100zonic 1 year ago
There are some people that believe in religion, but don't actually do anything with it.
Then they will proceed to believe that they are somehow better than other non-believers.
I believe there is a God, but I would NEVER try to impose my views on others.
I hope this somehow answers this question.
VidCat23 1 year ago
Athiests are arrogant.
Sneezlebob 1 year ago
You bring up a good point. Certainly there is arrogance in people, but this isn't bordered to being either religious or atheist. It depends what you do with it that makes you arrogant, not what you believe...
Eduartboudewijn 1 year ago
I definitely agree to you, religious fanatics often say Oxymorons.
And think about this:
Religious people say that someone had to make all the things in the universe, but then where did that person (or "god") come from? They never look at it from that aspect.
MasterMario14 1 year ago
I am a fellow "Athiest", but I would NEVER challange someone elses beliefs.
If someone came up to me who was, Sikh for example, I'm not going to rant at them...
People who do such ARE arrogant. I respect all religions and enjoy learning about them. As a Historian I find religions are so rich in History of civilization and human socialial systems.
Capitallog 1 year ago
i don't believe in anything is that being a atheist ore is that being what?
SuddenSkies 1 year ago
True, it's hard to prove the existence of a god. It is however impossible to prove that he/she/it doesn't exist. For example, I've never seen snow, but that doesn't disprove it's existence.
If you try to convince me of god's existence (or non existence) refusing to accept the truth of the above, then yes. You're arrogant.
Ironically, the only way you could be sure that no god existed would be if you were omnipotent - aware of everything, all the time (arguably a god-like ability).
mahkid1 1 year ago
@mahkid1 oh HO! good argument, how ever your missing one very important detail, from the understanding i have of the atheists i know, atheisum argument isnt that god dosent exist its just the fact that we hope people to take into account that he may NOT exist people live there lives according to something that may not even be real i find this very sad. if he dose indeed exist then i cross the bridge when it comes, but because im a furry. im supposedly damned to hell anyway, so who cares
Kilianshaw 1 year ago
@mahkid1 Atheism is the ultimate arrogance. Since we have not found other intelligent life in the universe, Atheism is the belief that we are the supreme intelligence in our universe. Theism at least admits that we're lost. That's all I'm saying. Show me an atheist that claims to still be confused about life and I'll show you a man on the brink of believing in God with all his might.
tpstrat14 1 year ago
@mahkid1 True, it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of god. But it is far more logical to accept something as non-existent than it is to accept everything that we cannot disprove as true. That is a common logical fallacy. Just because no one can disprove unicorns, magical fairies, etc. does not mean we should take all these things as being true.
xpertkilla 1 year ago
Can you prove that god(or any other being of a higher power) does not exist, as easily as others can prove that god does exist? The existance of god lies in the beliefs of those in this world that fallow god, and the non-existance of god lies in the beliefs of those are are atheist. There have been as many inexplicable events as there have been those that could be explained. So, I have a question for you. would it not be trivial to think either way?
MrKazetenshu 1 year ago
Atheism is not arrogance unless the individual person (Atheist) is acting like a bible thumper with no solid ground to stand on. In general Atheists merely question and that is not arrogance but the natural and intelligent path of a human being. I find far more intellectual minds that are Agnostic or Atheist than those of one the monotheistic branches.
ritzlarka 1 year ago
1 answer...Nobody can know if his friend is arrogant or not..also you..you can't know
MrSuwaidiSama 1 year ago
please tell me if i am wrong. it would be arrogant to think i had something to do-with/add-to the truths of our universe, regardless of a higher power or not. Believing in god or not in and of itself has nothing to do with arrogance and it's simple opinion that may cause us to think of athiests or any other groups as arrogant as a whole. The only way i could imagine being arrogant in my atheism would be to think that i believe there is no God because i'm smart enough to KNOW there is no God
ToxicSheep 1 year ago
WTF is a god?
sz1115 1 year ago
@sz1115 i luld
blazereef 1 year ago
nice eyebrow raise
TheMikeyds2 1 year ago
Brilliant.
eburt6 1 year ago
@blattt188. Im not sure if you are just adding to my point or making some other statement? it sounds like your just adding to mine. anyway to add to yours. I dont think it promises persecution and hate from the entire world. Many people in the world are Christian. And even if your not whoever you are you have a big group of people to persecute/hate you. Think of a religion or belief or stand that wont have a group against them?
Raidre 1 year ago
i dont think people are arrogant cuz they are atheist. That's ridiculous, but i do find a lot of atheists are in fact arrogant. Not for anything stated in these comments or in this video. I don't mean to generalize but from my exp., from most atheists i know, they have a tenancy to look down on people who have beliefs. And that is arrogance i have noticed. No one is better than anyone else becuz of their belief system and its sad that i dont get the same respect from atheists that i give to them
invaderzim196 1 year ago
@invaderzim196
The arrogance goes both ways, from my experience, but yes, I've noticed it in a couple atheists. Maybe it's because they've been forced to believe in something, and they finally broke free of that belief and now feel very good about themselves. I had the same feeling when I realized I was an atheist, but I never waved it around in peoples' faces. I've sort of.. "calmed down", I guess would be a decent phrase to describe it. It's just me now, nothing new and exciting. Feels good
MITCHsaysHI 1 year ago
@invaderzim196 what irks us is, there is no logic behind blind faith. its often pushed on others, and usually, they are entirely unwilling to consider the other side of the argument. you may say, we wont consider it either, but, that is in fact wrong. you cant just tell us we have to take on faith what you perceive as a special personal feeling is the utter and final truth. i pose a question: Why is it that your religion is almost always that of your parents, and its always the right one?
greatjengofett 1 year ago
@greatjengofett "Why is it that your religion is almost always that of your parents, and its always the right one?" If your asking me specifically, its not, i have no idea what my parents actually believe, they are the kinda people who just dont talk about it. If it was just a general question you should reword it to "Why is it that your religion is almost always that of ones parents, and its always the right one?". And even that is not accurate.
invaderzim196 1 year ago
its not a steriotype, but most atheists i come accross are cool when it comes to sex, drugs, money & music, but they are soo cruel & mocking when it comes to God. Not just any god, but the God of the Bible always seems to trigger some deep set fury in people.
blattt188 1 year ago
The way I see it is, both of us have our ways to prove our own argument. Thing is, athiests i have met try to prove their point with science/evolution where as God believers use a spiritual feeling to prove theirs. I something about being able to feel something is true works better to me rather than just hearing something. The main reason i have seen a God believer go athiest is when his faith in God didnt work out how they planned it to work out.
Raidre 1 year ago
@Raidre "when his faith in God didnt work out how they planned" yeah, that's usually how it is: most religions & philosophies promise earthly pleasure, prosperity & fulfillment, but the Gospel promises persecution & hate from the entire world if you do the will of God(who is not of this world)
blattt188 1 year ago
atheism is not just arrogant but fucking militant , no wonder people hate atheist . just look at famous atheist , stalin killed 30-40 million , mao killed 60 million , pol pot 2.5 million etc etc
albokk 1 year ago
@albokk And Christians didn't kill anyone?
eburt6 1 year ago
@albokk ever heard of a religious war? like the kind that have been going on for millenia? the crusades, prehaps?
greatjengofett 1 year ago
We're arrogant because we ARE more intelligent. /end of story
love how a non-existant entity can create itself thru supernatural means when it itself cannot be an entity and therefore cannot create or destroy. PARADOX GOOOOO!
Kane491194 1 year ago
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The way I see it is, both of us have our ways to prove our own argument. Thing is, athiests i have met try to prove their point with science/evolution where as God believers use a spiritual feeling to prove theirs. I something about being able to feel something is true works better to me rather than just hearing something. The main reason i have seen a God believer go athiest is when his faith in God didnt work out how they planned it to work out.
Raidre 1 year ago
Yet again more good viewpoints.
Yes. Most theists are generally terrible arguers. I guess maybe most theists don't prepare themselves to argue as a atheist would. Which is generally why I see more atheists with intellectual responses.
I generally think most of these arguments will either be the theist acting illogically. Generally sending forward insults towards the atheists. Or vice versa
Or end up with 2 equally intelligent people arguing. Then eventually leading up to neither side agreeing
CastelliansBlood 1 year ago
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NIce one Kage717,
[Using xian concepts as an example as they are the prevalent flavor around here]
On occasion I too get called arrogant for stating 'No, I am not buying the flood or your invisible friend and his dad and the talking snake etc,etc.' ... or similar.
That always reeks of projection, Really?
Lets recap:Tell me again about your personal deep loving relationship w the son of the creator of the universe who loves you back and wrote a life/rulebook for you. Now THAT'S arrogance.
1ListerofSmeg 1 year ago
NIce one Kage717,
[Using xian concepts as an example as they are the prevalent flavor around here]
On occasion I too get called arrogant for stating 'No, I am not buying the flood or your invisible friend and his dad and the talking snake etc,etc.' ... or similar.
That always reeks of projection, Really?
Lets recap:Tell me again about your personal deep loving relationship w the son of the creator of the universe who loves you back and wrote a life/rulebook for you. Now THAT'S arrogance.
1ListerofSmeg 1 year ago
NIce one Kage717,
[Using xian concepts as an example as they are the prevalent flavor around here]
On occasion I too get called arrogant for stating 'No, I am not buying the flood or your invisible friend and his dad and the talking snake etc,etc.' ... or similar.
That always reeks of projection, Really?
Lets recap:Tell me again about your personal deep loving relationship w the son of the creator of the universe who loves you back and wrote a life/rulebook for you. Now THAT'S arrogance.
1ListerofSmeg 1 year ago
Thanks so much for you comments and ratings. Keep it coming. This is a very important discussion.
Kage717 1 year ago 4
@Kage717 Theist or Atheist, who cares really? People should believe in what they want to believe. You can believe in nothing all you want, while others believe in something, that is how the world will always be. I know plenty of atheist but they never flaunt their beliefs or preach on youtube. Sad bro, Sad.
joshyown 1 year ago
I can't rate your arrogance in the discussions you have--and you didn't ask me to--but I can imagine that you might exhibit it by the way you present those who are calling you on your arrogance. I've never ever been present where any group has praised itself for its modesty.
One is not stupid or naive because he or she sees a Designer behind obvious design. Herein is where I have experienced arrogance in debate. I hope you do not alienate your debaters by this judgmental error.
MorganMarvinson 1 year ago
Don't theists and atheists share the same arrogance? One says "I know for certain god exists and he exists in this particular manner"
While atheists say "Well I know for certain that there is no god or after-life"
Both cannot actually prove either of their stances. And in the case of an afterlife the same holds true...has any human died for a considerable amount of time and awoke to tell of it? Treat your fellow human with respect and dignity. We are all we have right now.
ocelechi 1 year ago
@ocelechi Respectfully, I am a theist. Yet, I do not make the statement you have said pertains to the theist. My belief in God is based on evidence--evidence that appeals to my senses, evidence that appeals to my sense of purpose. Nature is beautiful and exquisitely diverse and adapted--not merely adequate. Nature is extremely complex and adapted to self-correct itself. It would take great faith for me to believe that this came about by chance or self-correcting natural selection.
MorganMarvinson 1 year ago