Alcor Foundation ( Cryonics ) Part.A ( Ted WILLIAMS )

[HexOmega1612]

Did anyone give a thought to social or personal consequences assuming someone would be actually revived in the future? I'd really like to see a reanimated person in a new body (or at least a renewed one) being a happy, simple tourist of the future. Don't you people think that it could be tragic in a way? I mean, being alone in a completely new world, society so different that it's probably impossible to assimilate (despite the intellectual gap between the new people).

[HexOmega1612]

A monkey in a cage, walking exception, legacy of the ancestors not allowed to fully participate in the world, finally, Mr Savage who eventually kills himself. On the other hand, being immortal gives you some time to learn how to live. Again. Well that's a pro - good luck.

[RiccardoTheBeAst]

@HexOmega1612 Yeah this is a very interesting point.....the Alcor site is really good and it has lot of FAQs. But the point is that the questions on that argument and on the future are potentially limitless....

I hope someone could give an answer to this, or, better, an opinion, because i think that anyone knows the answer :)

[DK0526]

@RiccardoTheBeAst what questions do you have?

[DK0526]

@HexOmega1612 There is precedant for this scenario. Many people have gone through extreem culture shock. Losing ones family, 3rd world primative people have adapted well in industrialized nations...in some cases even better to then the spoiled native contempory culture that so easily forgets what it means to have it tough. Many immigrants actually thrive and own thier own businesses. They meet new people and start new families and adapt usually well to new and advanced cultures rather then die.

[HexOmega1612]

@DK0526 Thank you for your response, it indeed seems like a reliable comparison. On the contrary though, it all depends on a person - as a 3rd world orphan (those two subjects being just an example) striving for anything better than a traumatic image of poverty he's been experiencing for probably most of his life is quite a different case put up against a member of "the spoiled native contemporary culture", and I mainly mean the system of thought here.

[DK0526]

@HexOmega1612 Yes since no one knows the future all we can do is speculate based on past precident. And of course the compacity to adapt is a individual quality. Which brings me to think of the question "is the future worth living?"... and reducing it to... "is live itself worth living or adapting to, right now?" Of course most people would say yes and I suspect that that is also the precident for the future. Given the choice of death or having to adapt I certainly know the rational choice.

[HexOmega1612]

Nevertheless, despite my tendency to overdramatize, these are all just theories. We will have to leave people to decide for themselves and hope their decisions are fully conscious.

All the best :]

[aalaa777]

the only time they will come back to life is on the day of judgment with all humanization creatures

[x0AuG0x]

But everything that is "you" is contained in the electrical impulses that are constantly circulating in the brain. When you die those impulses dissipate. Even if you could theoretically kick the physiology of living back into gear, all those impulses that made you.....you would never come back. You'd be a blank slate. Perhaps irreversibly infantile.

[DK0526]

@x0AuG0x Memory is contained in the structure not the electrical impulses. Not long term memory any how...This is backed up by modern nueral science.

[kittykatro]

why don't they just save the consciousness on a computer instead of bothering with freezing whole bodies?

[DK0526]

@kittykatro because currently, there is no method of information preservation that equals that of cryonics freezing of a brain. Saving a mind in this fation provides the absolute highest resolution for future data transfer if it ever becomes possible. It also provides a structural framework for nanobots to begin to rebuild and repair an existing organism to revive if data transfer is not possible. Either way cryonics is the best way to save a mind and residual DNA for further treatments.

[catalystleader]

John Tucker may want to consider cryonics after those girls get through with him.

[lockwoodisafaggot]

total bullshit

[DK0526]

@lockwoodisafaggot Not according to the best and brightest scientists in the know. To the common layman it may seem as much bullshit as clonning of a human once seemed or flying of airplanes pre- wright brothers. There is many things that were considered BS years ago that are common place today. It doesnt take a very large imagination to see just how wrong the nay sayers have been when it comes to advances in technology. History is littered with people who were wrong about weaker ideas!!!

[DK0526]

>>>If there was proof then we would have examples of revived humans and thus we would also have advanced molecular nanotechnology. Cryonics would no longer be useful since the future would have happened already. Cryonics is for now to get us to the future that may or may not exist someday. There is taoday also indirect evidence such as frozen embryos, ice water drownings, and hypothermic cardiac arrest that show the rational for cryonics. Nanotechnology is based on life so this also is feasible.

[DK0526]

@Radiation4TheNation If you do not have any idea what you are talking about then dont leave comments. It makes you look foolish. If you have some sort of evidence that cryonics is a scam then put it up otherwise keep your gibberish to yourself.

[gravelay]

@DK0526 The burden of proof is on you, not me. Do you have any documented case where you brought someone back? That's right, you don't.

And btw you were too quick to delete my comment, which shows you can't handle criticism. This is a community based website, if you don't want people commenting, then don't make your non-sense public.

[DK0526]

@gravelay I do not have the authority to delete your comment so I have no idea what you are talking about. I do not even know what you are refering to unless you are refering to my last post to Radiation4theNation. Burdens of proof refer to prosecuters in legal matters not in here on Youtube. However, The correct scientific answer to whether cryonics works or not and thus is provable...Is neither Yes or No but instead....we shall see. The data is not in yet, come back in 100yrs for proof>>>

[immortality921]

én egy magyar hibernálás rajongó vagyok.

nagyon tetszik a videó ajánlom másoknak is

[immortality921]

én egy magyar hibernálás rajongó vagyok.

nagyon tetszik a videó

[adamz1988]

umbrella corporation

[immortality921]

nekem nagyon tetszik a video

mindenkinek ajánlom

[DK0526]

@livingintsuchiura When Emergency workers use CPR and defibulators to bring back the clinically dead they often do not mention God or the soul yet who is to say that they are or are not doing gods work? Do you speak for God? Would you condem Emergency medicine for going against "gods will" by bringing people back to life? Then why pass judgement on Cryonics for attempting to do the very same thing? You need to seriously think about what you think God may want because you may be deadly wrong!

[DK0526]

@livingintsuchiura Most of the miracles attributed to the prophets, Christ, the early Christians, and Christians through the centuries have involved healing the sick and raising the dead. In fact, Christ commanded his disciples to "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead. . . ." (Matt. 10:8) thus the bible supports cryonics directly as a means to heal the sick and raise the dead. To not support cryonics is sinful and contradicts multiple biblical teachings.

[chewser117]

I would totally do this if I had the money and it was proven that you could be revived. Start a savings account, go to sleep, wake up in 700 years later, withdraw my millions of dollars assuming the economy didn't collapse, and become an ancient historian.

[DK0526]

@chewser117 You probably do have the money...ie term life insurance is cheap less the 20$ a month for CI's cryonic plan. I would put a few hundred in a consevative stock index ie sp500 and via compounding interest you'd probably wake up rich also. Young, rich, healthy, with almost magical technology possibly or dead certainly....those are the choices facing anyone who looks into cryonics...its a no brainer as to what is the logical choice!

[farazag10]

this is such a bs!

[DK0526]

@farazag10 why?

[farazag10]

@DK0526 I'm not saying that the "resurrection" will never be possible, but what I mean is that their current procedures to preserve the body is very destructive and is not really a 100% preservation; it simply keeps it from rotting!

I'm a biochemist and even when we freeze a protein that is dissolved in glycerol, the retrieval after defrosting is about 85% the highest. Now the entire body!.... no way

[DK0526]

@farazag10 No one at the 3 cryonics organizations is claiming that the current proceedure isnt very destructive much less a 100% preservation. The goal may ultimately may be to achieve this some day to make cryonics better. However, the central premise to cryonics need not be 100% or even close in theory to accomplish the goal of "reanimation". Even if one cell out of trillions survives we know through clonning and/or multipotent stem cell regeneration that ever cell be replaced and/or repaired>

[DK0526]

@DK0526 >that every cell can be replaced and/or repaired via the preserved DNA blueprint for that individual. Then theres the issue of brain. Even damaged braincells can be replaced so long as the overall nueral structure and synaptic connections can be infered via 3 dimensional location from one another. Information theory says that as long as the patient doesn't rot, get cremated, and dissolve the structure that makes up ones mind that that mind can be infered copied on new braincells or >>>

[DK0526]

@DK0526 braincells or>>>recopied back on to old repaired braincells. Through molecular nanotechnology or some advanced genetic engineering of viruses to carry out the repairs you slowly wake up the patient to a new young, healthy, repaired body. This may seem like the technology would take 1000's of yrs but Moore's law says otherwise. And even if it does take a long time. It would be but a blink of an eye to someone who was unconscious. There is no violation of the current laws of physics here!

[IEatVideoClips]

In actual fact, you CAN remake a cow from a hamburger, It's called cloning. By dissecting a cow cell (Finding one that isn't damaged from cooking), then taking innards and placing it inside a Ovum (female sex cell) then placing it inside the uturus to grow

[zodcyborg]

LN2 is definately too cheap in the US ^^

[MDEMONIC689]

Seems like a scientific alternative to religions and their promise of afterlife.

However at least this does have some sort of connection to science and theoretical facts, rather than religion which is a bunch of nonsense with absolutely no proof or even a theoretical model.

[MDEMONIC689]

It is a sort of wager, where you are essentially gambling money (usually your life insurance policy) on a possible outcome.

From the outset it is quiet a cheap gamble since life is worth more than any amount of money, and since it is usually life insurance money it is money you'll never see anyway.

However perhaps the true cost of the gamble is in the uncertain future, what position and condition might you be forced to live in if you are brought back to life?, that IMO is the gamble.

[DK0526]

@MDEMONIC689 yes this is true but we have some thing to draw on for predictive analysis..Would most of the worlds primintive now dead population prefer death to todays modern and relatively wealthy society. I think for all our complaining about the present or hand wringing about the future, that those in the past had a much more brutal and poor existense. The will to live when given a clear choice is strong and despite our relative attitutes we have and will better existences via advancing tech.

[DK0526]

@MDEMONIC689 no more an alternative then a heart transplant. Cryonics is for the aiethist who cheerishes life and believes in no afterlife as much as it is for the Christian who cheerishes life and believes in an afterlife as well. While Cryonics is based in theoretical facts rather then metaphysics it is not opposed to those who believe just as heart surgeons do not discriminate between patients.

[InfiniVide]

Thank you for uploading this kebekdisk and giving a little background on your own involvement in cryonics. I've been involved with cryonics myself for about a year and a half now, and more recently I've been attending training sessions to join Alcor's transport teams.

[UfoFootage2]

I'll have to google it but I read somewhere that a domestic cat was frozen like cryonics and was revived 1 year later but an anti-freeze solution was used in the cat upon freezing like how embalming fuid is used!! If it worked on a cat it'll work on any carbon based lifeform which is everything known so far!! If correct they need to try out a Chimp next, Chimps beat Humans into Space too before we started risking human lives to do it!!

[Parapon3ra]

The enemies of cryonics are enemies of life itself, and should be treated as such.

[luxfero]

i would love to live in a 15 year old's body for 500 years. i can imagine it. i could trick jail bait in believing i am 15 and i can have sex with them

[spaik007]

whata`?

[kingmaxim187]

sorry but my english is a bit bad.

[kingmaxim187]

we need storage wich you can imagine as a ball in where you put the body. the "ball" is made of some metal alloy(ecc) wich keeps iradiation out of it. the inside is keept in a non-electron phonon interaction. then we need a second ball wich is between ball No.1 and the inside. this ball(No.2) has to spin in the speed of light (fiction) to produce a lapse of time in the inside. this lapse will provide a "timebubble" wich can be "opened" by dragin ball No.2. cryonics is the medieval style.

[DK0526]

cryonics is not science fiction it is a medical proposal but your ideas are fiction and have no basis in reality.

[kmiroshkhin]

@kingmaxim187

That's interesting idea. Set aside that spinning would be impossible at such speed, let's assume it is possible. I am not completely convinced that just because the inner layer is spinning at the time of speed the body inside is undergoing through timelessness. The body itself needs to move at such speed. I am no physicist so I assume that my understanding is incorrect.

[PhillipH903]

I'm 19 years old now, and I'm seriously considering taking out a policy with Alcor.

I used to think that cryonics was a bunch of BS, but I spoke with Bart Kosko (he's a teacher of mine) and he really opened my eyes.

By the way....if any of you use torrents, I would highly recommend that you look up Bart Kosko's interview on Coast to Coast AM from back in 2001. It's really incredible.

peace.

[DK0526]

good luck....keep reading this stuff is awesome

[mouzouki]

Or as very cleverly put by the COO of the company... a 90 year old bald, wrinkled, toothless, filled with cataracts head will be attached to an 18-year old body... and there you go.

[youngnewtonian]

It is Mummification, just new name. The problem is, how the FUCK are you going to resuscitate them?

[DK0526]

Molecular nanotechnology, multi-potent adult stem cell technology, advanced genetic engineering, clonning technology, advanced brain imagining technology, Moore law of accelerated computing, all are relevent paths to a likely future that could repair and resusitate a frozen person some time in the future...and those who are frozen have plenty of time to wait for science and medicine to catch up with the abulance ride to the future that is cryonics.

[DK0526]

Also mummification does not sufficiently protect the cells and brain structure for any reasonable 3 dimensional information retrieval. Cryonics which holds molecules tightly in place does just that. In effect, acting as an abulance ride to the future where the aforementioned technologies are likely to evolve given enough time and the likely hood of moore's law and the larger force that is the law of accelerating returns.

[mouzouki]

You are talking about cell/ brain/nerve structure protection. Thats the secret of cryogenics but why is the severing of heads a common practice in these facilities? Is it possible for a decapitated body to be resuscitated? Hell no. Not even in a million years....

[DK0526]

I am not a proponent of head only suspensions. But since you ask the logic follows as such..Only one cell out of trillions needs to survive with its DNA in tact for a complete youthful blueprint for a whole organism as has been proven via cloning and stem cell research. The only thing that cant be copied from this one cell is your mind. therefore you need at least the brain to copy and rebuild its structure. plus one cell for complete regeneration of a youth full body not just below the neckline

[DK0526]

Implied in the monumental task of regenerating tissues from what ever declared you legally dead and freezing damage is that growing a whole body from scratch every single part head to toe would be easy. It is also implied in multi potent stem cell or cloning research since on a cell by cell basis we are already doing this today. The important part is taking the information or mind and projecting it on to the cloned cells of the new brain. So by saving only the head you save 100+ yrs of LN2 costs

[DK0526]

..and save only what is theoretically needed to regenerate your mind into a new genetically grown body. It is logical to believe that if science can not grow a whole new body by scratch by then that they will not be able to revive a pile of frozen tissue anyhow then. One other method involves molecular nanotechnology fixing all damaged cells on the nanoscopic level using only component molecules of any cabon and such but based on ones DNA again as a template or blueprint for a brand new body

[DK0526]

molecular nanotechnology would work on the very tiny scale the same way that a lizards body regrows its tail...only in this case a whole body from head to toe but while not comprimizing the brain structure and thus the mind or the soul for the religious. Tiny machines or virus like structures would do what the bio machines in a lizards body does on the subcellular level until virtually all cells were swapped out. BTW your body does this to some degree right now during normal life.. so it follows

[littleteethkeith]

Boy, she has alot of tumors.

[mls123195]

Yes very reputable company that bashed Ted Williams head in.

[DK0526]

The person who wrote the book claiming teds head was bashed in....was a disgruntled employee who was fired for trying to extort money from Alcor. He was sued and a judgement was ordered that he stop with his nonsense...He has broken the law again in an attempt to make money off of a company who seeks to advance medicine... These facts are public record, so yes Alcor is far more reputable then Larry Johnson a manipulative opportunist and documented criminal. But you wont here that in the news!

[DK0526]

allegedly by a disgruntaled and fired employee who now is a book selling profitier. A better way of viewing them is the company who may have saved ted williams.

[12tomidnight]

Cryonically or otherwise preserving the deceased is the civilized, aesthetic, and rational thing to do, regardless of the final outcome. To bury or burn people who, had they been placed in biostasis, might someday have been restored to full health is morally equivalent to criminal neglect, if not outright murder. Similarly, failing to make the necessary arrangements for one's own preservation is in essence a form of suicide. It's really as simple as that.

[cowbelltg]

The only way cryonics would have a slight chance of working is to be frozen before you were dead.

[DK0526]

except the definition of death itself has been changing so rapidly in the medical field that we are not sure when that is anymore. In fact most scientists are comming to the conclusion that death is a process and not a event. meaning it takes time for your body to die even after your heart stops....the colder it is the longer it takes...with future medicine who knows what will change...unless you think there will be no change in the next 500 yrs

[gothaar]

don't know about being gross or not. it's a choice. i think people should be left free of choosing whatever of the post-mortem process will be applied to their remains. if you don't like cremation then go for burial. or cryonics. it's really up to you.

[ajdnjasknjdnsajkndas]

isnt heaven a false hope as well!!! science proves things to be right or wrong... but is far more believable than HEAVEN!! i think Cryonics is something that people should know about and invest into so someday we can live for many many years

[jennielynn77]

It might work one day but I agree....who would really want it.....It's kind of weird. If your number is up your number is up, IMO. I especially believe this about people who get cryonics who are "over the hill" so to speak.

[gothaar]

what do you mean by "over the hill"? if you mean people with money then you should know that today cryonics is a lot cheaper than you might think and paid for by a life insurance (my local fishmonger has got one). and, by the way, if you don't want it then don't do it. as easy as that.

[MIZHOG]

do these people consider the burden on society of over population? (assuming the process worked)..it shouldnt be allowed

[DK0526]

If Cryonics works then physics suggests there will have to be mechanisms in place such as molecular nanotechnolgy to rearrange the cellular biology of a patient to match his own DNA blueprint. Assuming this technology evolves then mankind will have almost complete control of matter and its arrangment. Ie. no polution, no starvation, complete selfcontrol of reproduction. with the ability to live anywhere on earth..oceans, deserts, underground in mega sky scrapers or anywhere else in the universe

[gothaar]

totally agre. there's only one thing i'd like to point out. on the short period, 20 years or so, neuroimaging techniques will give more accuracy and reliability on neural tissue data storage than what cryonics will be able to do. if we also find out that matter is not necessary to produce consciousness, which is plausible, that'll be the end of cryonics (unless somebody will still want his/her retro biological body).

[DK0526]

I think what you are saying is that neuroimagining and data storage will render the biological substrate being preserved as unneeded. Of course only once the DNA and brain structure are uploaded to a computer either from patients in cryonics already or people about to deanimate. This is the concept of mind uploading. (plausable) but until such a technology comes to be cryonics is the only material backup copy and the best bet. When such tech does happen cryonics will have served its purpose!

[DK0526]

Matter will still be necessary I believe to store the information that makes up consciousness. It will just be another form of matter..such as silicon rather then flesh. This would give a whole new meaning to backing up your files. Redundancy in data storage would make any given entity a exponentialy greater chance of prolonged survival. This opens many pandoras boxes that have been discussed to great length on ben bests website..

[gothaar]

I strongly agree with all what you wrote. I still don't understand why we keep burying people. That's a total waste. All this beautifully grown, hard-earned and maintained biological tissue ending up in the ground to feed the worms. Organ donation should be made the default choice for everybody on the Earth (yet allowing people to go for the classical burial or cremation option, if they wish).

[DK0526]

Agreed if I wasnt signed up for cryonics then Id donate my parts to science or another person in need or if that were not possible Id want to be ground up as fertilizer rather then to waste the resources of a funeral or cemetary land as my legacy. I understand this to be a social construct for the living to help them deal with death but I would have a goodbye party with pictures, vids, audio recording...some good food drink and music and they adios mu cha chos! This seems most rational to me!

[gothaar]

Well, full body or head only is your choice. What really disgusts me is let bodies rotten in a wooden box, as we do now. At the end of the day, what these people do is just using aluminium instead of wood (for the coffin) filled with nitrogen instead of air. These institutes should merge into what is usually referred as cemetery. Even more, cemeteries should merge into hospitals, since skilled technicians are needed also for cryonics operations. This would facilitate also transport operations.

[gothaar]

If you die today (and you subscribed organ donation) your pancreas will be freezed, as well as your corneas and possibly your lungs and liver. But do you guys have an idea of what they are going to do with your brain? They'll bin it. Why not sticking it in the freezer with all the other bits instead? Does this really sound horrible? It doesn't to me. The only difference will be that the first parts will be awaiting for a patient in the short term and the last one for one (yes, you) in the long.

[DK0526]

"They'll bin it"? I dont understand this comment? Please clarify..thanks

[gothaar]

They will throw it away.

[DK0526]

If you are pessimistic about the future cryonics is not for you...on the other hand if you feel that the trend is positive..ie that we have it better then 500 yrs ago. Ie life spans of 30, bloodletting and wizards for medicine, horse for transportation, starvation,disease, head lice, no refridgeration, no tv/radio communications, 99% farming by hand or hunting to survive, fire heating only, dirty water,ect.. We do have it better we just dont realize it cuz were spoiled.

[DK0526]

Yes It has been considered and debated exhaustively and solved by the same physical technology that would allow cryonics to succeed. Another words molecular nanotechnology would solve almost all of humanities problems from death to over population to many more that are not even mentioned. Molecular nanotechnology will transform the world beyond what most people can comprehend. To attempt to stiffle this technology would ironically result in a world burdened by more the overpopulation. We need it

[mexicancricket7]

i know it sounds like science fiction but cryo gives you a shot a life again over being cremated. so it's up to you, little chance or certain death.

read the book; The First Immortal by James L. Halperin

[gothaar]

cryonics is the best way to preserve the data contained in your body after legal death. it's a shame that not many people know about this fact.

[R055HP]

Indeed. That anecdote about the burger is completely false. It's been heavily criticized.

[kebekdisk]

hkjap85 : (2nd part) Different but I'm sure : interesting.My family,friends know my choice and if they don't want to do the same,I don't lose this chance for them.But I hope they'll change their mind.

4 the job in the futur,we will see there will be other opportunities.

[kebekdisk]

hkjap85: You're right to say we will able to adapt ourselves but in this present life, it's the same.We're not sure to keep family, friends or job but I prefer to live.So,4 me,that's not a good reason.I take a chance to comeback.There also are a lot of interesting things to do and people to meet.

[hkjap85]

Wait a minute even if you can bring back the body can you bring back the mind.not only that even if you are ressurected in the distant future,your immdeiate family would have been long gone ,you would have no family or friends or job.Not to mention adapting.

[44sd44]

so,,what if you were brought back to life in the future but did not remember your past?

[kebekdisk]

44sd44 : Long memory is supposed to stay. That's why my wife & I put many videos about us, pictures ... on USB keys. Yes, big challenge but we prefer to try.

[stavnir91]

@kebekdisk Putting your data in CDs rather than USB keys is probably safer and more durable for that matter.

[Gunner193]

Ora, um português! Seguinte, gajo: não sabes entender uma brincadeira? Vá se ferrar!

[Gunner193]

Como existe gente sem senso de humor... Bom, que esperar de um português? São todos idiotas!

[blabolola]

DEATH HAVE any sense. it´s against nature

[Vziera]

so sophisticated, that makes me wonder!

[TheMathGuy]

There are known cases of people falling into near-freezing water and being brain dead for hours, yet who came back to life when they thawed out. There are frogs that can be frozen in ice for centuries and still be alive when they thaw back out. The guy who compared it to remaking a cow from a hamburger is talking complete nonsense--the analogy is not valid, since a hamburger is not even a whole cow and the cooking process denatures the proteins.

[DK0526]

@TheMathGuy With a very advanced form of molecular nanotechnology and enough information you could reassemble a hamburger back into a cow. There is nothing in physics that says this is impossible. In fact when you or I eat a hamburger the natural nanomachines reassemble the hamburger into human beings. So in a real way we have natural examples of nanomachines within our bodies. Reprogram DNA and protiens and lifes machinery and yes you could reassemble a cow from hamburger. Not yet, but someday!

[freckles2428]

What happens when this crowd goes broke????? huh?? Well i spose they've gone anyway (the patients)

[Falzone77]

Could be right off rip tv ,,,

[selbz]

I gurentee the guy who says the cow comment is religious. thats why he can't accept the fact that cryonics will work. even if the cells are partly destroyed when you get thawed out theres still a good chance the advances in science could fix all that with stem cells or something.

[digemail]

I believe. The technology to turn hamburger into a cow exists. Feed the hamburger to a cow.

Exponential increases in technological abilities will turn a lot of our current science fiction into science-fact. Cryonics will very likely be a near-perfected technology half way through the current century.

[Vlado8819]

Read about this company a few month ago and i was so excited that i decided to sign up some time in the future, possibly when im about 50 ...this is so huge!!!