Mitt Romney - Values Voters Summit 2009 - Part 2

[Illiknight]

On Mormonism being MORE ridiculous:

The truth is Joseph Smith lived in the 1800s, and it is much easier to discern who the man really was versus the actual nature of Jesus or Mohammed. Smith was an opportunistic charlatan of EPIC proportions with plenty of charisma. Therefore any sincere faith in the Book of Mormon or the Pearl of Great Price (which were of course delivered by Smith) should raise eyebrows in the 21st century.

(contd...)

[HerrQuixota]

"the actual nature of Jesus or Mohammed."

Tell me how you know anything about the actual nature of either of those people. Don't tell me you prayed about it, because I don't think you did.

I think you are a Deist. Tell me I'm wrong.

[Illiknight]

Jesus: Quite possibly a rabbi ahead of his time. I dont believe he was divine. The Gospels are often contradicting and unconvincing. Even if you say they are not contradicting, they still make supernatural claims that I see no sensible reason to believe. It is obvious that, over the course of many centuries, many people have shaped the Jesus myth we have today, and it is more difficult to accurately pull back these layers than it is to see through that pathetic Smith.

(Contd)

[Illiknight]

Mohammed: I have very little respect for this man. Ill sum it up by quoting Christopher Hitchens when he said the so-called prophet was more likely an epileptic plagiarist.

Abraham: If he truly existed, I hate his guts. A man willing to sacrifice his son for God is an awful man.

I am an atheist.

[HerrQuixota]

So you hate all religion. Great. Have nice life isolating yourself with other people that hate religion. You will learn that Atheists are just as bad as Theists.

[Illiknight]

Yes, I hate religion. Still I am careful to separate the people from religion. I am happy to count many religious people my friends.

Most of my family is Christian, by the way, and I love everyone in my family dearly.

Finally, Atheists are not a homogenous group by any means. We simply do not believe in a deity in the same way we (at least most of "us," and I hate to say us and we) don't believe in Big Foot.

Atheists are just as bad as Theists? Please explain.

[HerrQuixota]

"Atheists are just as bad as Theists? Please explain. "

They are people.

You got Stalin, Hitler, Mao , and their lackeys.

They've got the Roman Empire forcing Conversion, Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, Salem Witch Trials.

It doesn't matter which you are. Theist or Atheist, not all of them were/are united in their causes either.

Religion or the Lack thereof isn't the problem.

I am glad you can disassociate all those horrible things from your family.

Now do it for everyone else.

[Illiknight]

Stalin, Mao, and Hitler were motivated by unbridled ambition and insane nationalism. They were not the way they were because they were Atheists (Hitler was Catholic for much of his life, and lauded Jesus in Mein Kempf. Most of Nazis were Christian by the way).

Atheism alone will not often motivate people to commit atrocities. However, suicide bombers hurl themselves into crowds of innocents in the name of Allah.

(contd)

[Illiknight]

The moral of Abraham going to sacrifice his son is that so strong in his faith in God was Abraham that he was willing to kill his own son for Him. DISGUSTING.

Finally, I get on just fine with my Jewish and Muslim friends just fine.

[Gothikification]

@Illiknight

.

Some of your Muslim friends might support "honor killings".

[Illiknight]

This man decries children being born out of wedlock....does he still think abstinence-only sex ed is the answer?

[MsProFamily]

Romney speaks the truth in this video. Less Gov't!

[AofF13]

Romney understands that more freedom and less government is the right combination.

Besides that - he understands the economy and what will bring prosperity back better than anyone.

[LiberalHuntingSeason]

Mormons = extra batshit crazy.

[HerrQuixota]

explain how the mormons are any more crazy than evangelicals in general?

Their philosophies sound logical to me.

(although culturally I think Utahns are loons)

[Illiknight]

They believe ancient Jews came to ancient North America. They want us to beliebe God lives on star called Kolah with his spirit wives. They believe Joseph Smith found golden plates and translated them with seeing stone he put into a hat. They believe they have modern prophets.

Are you still unclear?

[HerrQuixota]

They believe Kolob* is the closest star next to God. God could be the center of the universe to them for all we know. As for spirit wives. lol. They believe they have bodies and that they organized "chaotic matter". Everything else you watched in the CARTOON is probably bullshit.

[Illiknight]

Well, those clarifications make it much more believable....please.

[HerrQuixota]

well you should stop spreading propaganda.

Ron Paul is a Freemason. And guess what. Mormons and Freemasons are not devil worshipers!

If they are devil worshipers, then our Constitution was made by devil worshipers.

[Illiknight]

I have no idea what you are babbling about.

I pointed out that Mormonism is simply ridiculous, and I dare you to try and tell me otherwise.

It would be humiliating for us as Americans to say to the world that we believe our best candidate for president is credulous enough to believe that the ludicrous slime ball called Joseph Smith was a prophet.

[clunecrazie8]

please don't talk about my religion that way without knowing what we believe. ask questions to missionaries or members before you pass judgements on a religion you obviously don't understand.

[Illiknight]

Clunecrazie8, while I believe all religion false and a waste of time, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints belongs in the same category as Scientology.

I would be happy to read your defense of the Mormon tradition, as long as you are willing to engage in an honest discussion.

You might be surprised to find I know much more than you think.

[Illiknight]

And just so you know, I HAVE asked missionaries and Mormon friends about the glaring lack of evidence for the various wild claims, the sordid history of Smith, the evidence against the Pearl of Great Price, and so on. They tell me to just pray about it. That's the best they can give me?

[clunecrazie8]

it is absolutely the best they can give you. nobody can force you to believe anything. I have had a personal witness that this is the truth, but it is not transferrable in any way. it is only proof to me

[HerrQuixota]

"I dare you to try and tell me otherwise."

Tell me why Mormonism is any more RIDICULOUS than the rest of religion.

Tell me how every other MORTAL is any less fallible than another because of their faith?

All you are doing is being a bigot. And it's glaringly obvious when you SINGLE HIM OUT BECAUSE OF HIS FAITH.

Judge people's credibility on their actions you ludicrous slime ball called Illiknight.

[Illiknight]

To your 1st challenge: Joseph Smith demonstrated himself to be a cad and scoundrel. His actions and antics at Navou are enough to indict the man (If you aren't acquainted with his story, I suggest you invesitgate, as the comment limitations would drive me crazy trying to recount it here.)

I also suggest you read the account of Smith by Josiah Quincy. Very enlightening.

You should also familiarize yourself with the controversy surrounding the so-called Book of Abraham. It's laughable.

[Illiknight]

All that aside, I actually preferred Romney over the rest of that gaggle of goons currently deemed Republican frontrunners in 2012. That is until he gave that atrociously insulting speech on faith in which he insinuated that those without faith are un-American. Jefferson would have been disgusted.

[HerrQuixota]

"That is until he gave that atrociously insulting speech on faith in which he insinuated that those without faith are un-American. Jefferson would have been disgusted."

So you decided to take something the wrong way. That's your fault.

[vegasblackout]

Romney 2012!

[UltraBibendum]

cool videbro (cool video, bro)