@T0ph3r33110 Either shorter rods, or custom pistons with a different wrist pin height. The deck on the 4g63 is 6mm shorter to the center of the crank.
1. No. The Kia block is cast by Hyundai. They made changes. While the changes aren't major if you have an EVO, they're hugely incompatible on the ≤'99 years because with the advent of the EVO VIII, the engine got flipped around backwards (Sirius II). So there are too many differences to mix and match between the two... but plenty of room to mix Sirius I blocks & heads.
There was an '88-90 Galant Sigma. Find one. It has a 4g64 6-bolt. It's the one you want to use with a Sirius I head.
@Jafromobile they are not hugely incompatible you can use the pistons, cranks, camshafts and timing tensioners and you can reverse flow a 2000 up cylinder head on a certain 94-99 block, in fact that head @1:25 can go on any 2.4L between 94-99. Also, most OEM piston that come with these motor's make very little use of the quench area's in fact they are really poor at squish OEM run's them very large, for emissions reasons. Also, shrouding isn't a bad issue in fact you can hurt flow.
Alright J-Dog. I'm gonna pick up a 64 and have been looking for the place to as the ?'s. Apparently that place is here. 1. Do the kia / mitsu blocks have the same casting #'s?... 2. The combo is 1g head on a 64, with the DOHC belt setup from a 95? Galant? Plus all the turbo goodies and DSMLINK?...
im so glad i found this video.. i learned alot.. never knew kia barrowed a motor from hyndai in turn barrowd a design from Mitsubishi.. wow.. im truing to find a video on replacing the upper and lower oil pan on the kia optima g4js...the lower looks easy but im lost on the upper...
@Running925 Thanks Tony! ...and thanks for burning 23 minutes in my honor! This blew me away! I thought the 4g had run its course by the end of the Eclipse production, but I was wrong. Store this little fact for when you start working on DSMs. ;)
Hopefully someone can use this info because the 2.4L 7-bolt Eagle crank is out-of-production. Some other manufacturers are turning them but be prepared to drop a half-a-grand and up on it.
@ProjectCarTV It's possible... It depends on how trashed my 7-bolt is? I've played with the idea of a long-rod big-bore de-stroked 2.4L (to a 2.1L). Based on other people's comments, it's been done. You know what that provides! So many choices!
@Jafromobile You should still compare piston speed and rod/piston/rocker ratio. Depends how high you want to rev and how fast you want to go. You know as well as I do that automotive speed ain't cheap.
Also I checked out wikipedia and they did say if you search for Hyundai Sonota, that the motor in this video was based off of the Mitsu 4G64 engine lineup..Just thought I would throw that out there.....
@Corey3851 Yes, it does say that, but the Kia Optima doesn't use a Hyundai engine code, and the list of Sirius-powered cars includes the Hyundai Sonata, a few Dodges and other makes... but no Kia Optima.
I know it's user-editable and easily fixed... I was just bringing to light the fact that it's been overlooked for over a decade. Usually that helps guys like us find the parts we're looking for because those cars aren't picked clean in the junkyard if nobody knows to look for them.
They are saying that you can do the same thing with the motor in the Kia Sportage, it is the same motor shown here I believe....there is video out there Jafro that talks about this....I will have to find it and post it here as a response video. Also, Jamie is the man he should have his own show on Spike instead of the all muscle car hating imports lineup. You and him could build some bad ass frankenstein DSM's......:-) if only.....
WOW Thanks a lot for this video! Its scaring me that I acutally followed all of the info lol. I have a 93 galant 4g64 in my 1g Laser and I'm running the stock bottom end of the 2.4 with a 1g head bolted on, currently showing 32/33 lbs/min on my evo316g. I love information like this for Frankenstein motors
@xAcidosisx What is that at? 18-20 PSI? That thing's got a lot left in it. You will see!
I was looking for a video of your setup but didn't find it, however; thank you immensely for an opportunity to find that AWD HX40 Dodge Colt video you favorited. That thing is an immense inspiration for me. I LOL'd HARD at that pull, OMG! That thing's beautiful!
@Jafromobile I may just have to make a quick vid to show you my setup, afaik I haven't seen another setup like mine in a 1g. Its at 16psi currently, I can't run anymore boost without it knocking at peak torque, its really annoying... Thinking I have hotspots on the pistons. But peak airflow I've seen was 33 lb/min around 16 psi at just under 7k rpm. I think retarded 272's helped with that lol.
Glad you saw that colt video, that makes me want a CSM REAL bad haha its a ridiculous setup.
@kevinxcal1 Sho iz. Prolly for sale, too. Jamie got all the stuff to swap a 4g63 in it, and changed his mind. It has a running engine in it, just doesn't have a turbo (it is a factory turbo car).
@Jafromobile Well I have researched the 2GB 98+ stuff since my last two DSMs were a 98 GST and now a 99 GSX. Other than that, I bow out gracefully to your knowledge, I cannot even tell you how much your videos have taught me, I have literally gone from too nervous to start a project to hands grease stained daily with huge projects. Thanks again for what you do for the DSM community.
@MichaelCosta84 This. You might as well have handed me the winning lotto numbers because this is why I do this. I just love DSMs. The more of you inspired are just preserving something I love. I'm really just like everyone else that's here, as there are hundreds of DSMers who I would yield the floor to in a heartbeat.
Example. I played guitar in a band with a guy that was 10x better than me. I left that band playing 5x better.
Sometimes it's not all about beating the other guy up. ;)
@sk8erguy1450 I correct my self haha it has a vr4 spec motor and an evo 3 turbo set up that is my bad for misinforming you. I also have a chance to put up some good info on the 420a in the 2g.
Stroker Crank for a 2g, Head for a EVO, and the Meat Van with everything half off:) Do not know what else I could have asked for. I think this video was out of the ordinary for you but very, very informative to other car enthusiast. Thanks for the info. Tell Jamie thanks for spoiling one trick about the colt. :)
@robertbaxley Actually, I didn't give anything about the Colt away... it looks like I did but I'm a master troll. ;)
Can't easily use a crank trigger on the Colt because of the "version" of engine management (i.e.: the stock '92 AWD wiring and ecu). The 1g setup never had it so without DSMlink or a stand-alone, I really couldn't use it. I actually have a completely different trick up my sleeve. :P
@Jafromobile I am looking at 10 to 10.5K RPMs on that build, going to be a fun learning experience. I wrote my other comment half asleep, so I am apologize if it came off wrong. Jamie is obviously ridiculously knowledge (just like you), so I figured it was just an oversight or that he just wasn't aware. Both of you definitely put out an awesome amount of information in this post and for that I am grateful. I actually linked a new DSMer to this video, it should be a must watch for people.
@MichaelCosta84 Not at all. No apology necessary! I was actually agreeing with you.
If it's got 6-bolts, Jamie knows every spec off the top of his head. I'm a fan of the '95's because of the engine management aspect, and I've always liked the happy-ass 2g-a body the best. I've never dug into anything newer than a '97 4g63. That's why I wish you were there to help us with that fact! :D
I know that the later Optimas, Sonatas, PT cruisers, EVOs, and Genesii (?) used first and second-gen GEMA engines. There were still small distinctions between each manufacturer, in a similar nature to the Optima vs Evo.
What is interesting is that these are using Mitsubishi tech. Iirc, the V6 that the Sonata and Optima was using in paralell with this was the Hyundai delta V6, which is in-house just like the beta 4 cyl.
This is an interesting video, cheers for sharing. In the 90s, Mazda had shares in Kia, and Hyundai was using mitubishi licences. In the early 00s, Kia was going broke, so was bought by Hyundai. Because of this, there were some funky hybridised ex-mazda/half Kia engines used in the Rios and later Sephias.
"Hyundai of South Korea, built the Hyundai Pony in 1975 using MMC's Saturn engine and transmissions. Korea's first car, it remained in production for thirteen years. Mitsubishi held up to a 10 percent stake in the company, until disposing of the last of its remaining shares in March 2003."
from wiki on mitsubishi page
it explain the use of this engine in this hyundai .wich detain kia .
Anyway wiki is not the most and complete reliable source imo.
@michaelovitch Oh yeah, I know... Wikipedia is terrible as far as a "most reliable" source is concerned. In 2000-2001, Mitsu started throwing all of their investments and partners out the window. Closing dealerships, etc.
I just found it amusing that a Sirius engine built in '99 for an Optima isn't in the list of Sirius powered cars... and it's now the end of 2011. Various Dodge, Eagle, Mitsu, and Hyundai cars made it in there... but no Kia Optima.
Well you Guys certainly talk the talk.. ha ha, having said that I did find it all quite interesting, maybe its the way you express yourselves in America, you certainly don't come across as boring.
I look at these engine components as an ex-toolmaker, I marvel at how the pattern makers, model makers, casting manufacturers, have made those intricate cylinder heads and blocks, all good stuff you know and quite clever really.
I want to correct some misinformation in this post. Mitsubishi switched to split thrust bearing design in 1998, which is why 98-99 engines are not very likely to walk. Evos use the same design as well. Those rods in that Kia engine are identical to Evos as well, they are a good upgrade for us 2G guys (4G64/4G63 use the exact same rods).
@MichaelCosta84 To be fair... this is the only 7-bolt anything that Jamie's ever built. My Mitsubishi Eclipse service manual is a '97 issue, and I own a '95. Neither one of us has been through a '98-'99, so we'd both be unaware of that.
But thank you! Because this is what the comments section is for. :)
@MichaelCosta84 I wish you were, too bud... The best thing I can do for any DSMer is put the information out there, and the more DSMers that chime in, the better the info gets. This is just a start.
How many RPMs do you plan to throw at that setup? All of them?
great video guys thanks. this will come in handy as I just got a Kia optima!
AZTLAN312 2 weeks ago
so if i were to take the crank outta an optima and put it in my 2g to make it a stroker, what else would have to be done?
T0ph3r33110 1 month ago
@T0ph3r33110 Either shorter rods, or custom pistons with a different wrist pin height. The deck on the 4g63 is 6mm shorter to the center of the crank.
Jafromobile 1 month ago
Great informational video! I had no idea that the Optima was using a Sirius engine.
criggan 1 month ago
is it just me or does it seem like his entire house is the garage lol
lawlessSaturn 2 months ago
1. No. The Kia block is cast by Hyundai. They made changes. While the changes aren't major if you have an EVO, they're hugely incompatible on the ≤'99 years because with the advent of the EVO VIII, the engine got flipped around backwards (Sirius II). So there are too many differences to mix and match between the two... but plenty of room to mix Sirius I blocks & heads.
There was an '88-90 Galant Sigma. Find one. It has a 4g64 6-bolt. It's the one you want to use with a Sirius I head.
Jafromobile 2 months ago
@Jafromobile they are not hugely incompatible you can use the pistons, cranks, camshafts and timing tensioners and you can reverse flow a 2000 up cylinder head on a certain 94-99 block, in fact that head @1:25 can go on any 2.4L between 94-99. Also, most OEM piston that come with these motor's make very little use of the quench area's in fact they are really poor at squish OEM run's them very large, for emissions reasons. Also, shrouding isn't a bad issue in fact you can hurt flow.
MidShipCivic 1 month ago
Alright J-Dog. I'm gonna pick up a 64 and have been looking for the place to as the ?'s. Apparently that place is here. 1. Do the kia / mitsu blocks have the same casting #'s?... 2. The combo is 1g head on a 64, with the DOHC belt setup from a 95? Galant? Plus all the turbo goodies and DSMLINK?...
MrPsyban 2 months ago
im so glad i found this video.. i learned alot.. never knew kia barrowed a motor from hyndai in turn barrowd a design from Mitsubishi.. wow.. im truing to find a video on replacing the upper and lower oil pan on the kia optima g4js...the lower looks easy but im lost on the upper...
lawnside82 3 months ago
MEAT VAN!!! Good include, Homie. Very impressed with your range of info on what I assume is your favorite line of engines.
ianwfirestone 3 months ago
i don't even own any of these cars but i love learning about cars in general. awesome video and discussion!!!
hmong337 3 months ago
YES Backwards!!!!
MrPsyban 3 months ago
The supra is for sale actually. It will be missing the transmission. The Turbo is abandoned as well.
mirage4g63 3 months ago
interesting stuff here
Running925 3 months ago
@Running925 Thanks Tony! ...and thanks for burning 23 minutes in my honor! This blew me away! I thought the 4g had run its course by the end of the Eclipse production, but I was wrong. Store this little fact for when you start working on DSMs. ;)
Hopefully someone can use this info because the 2.4L 7-bolt Eagle crank is out-of-production. Some other manufacturers are turning them but be prepared to drop a half-a-grand and up on it.
Jafromobile 3 months ago
@Jafromobile Do we see a 2.4L in your future?
ProjectCarTV 4 months ago
@ProjectCarTV It's possible... It depends on how trashed my 7-bolt is? I've played with the idea of a long-rod big-bore de-stroked 2.4L (to a 2.1L). Based on other people's comments, it's been done. You know what that provides! So many choices!
Jafromobile 3 months ago
@Jafromobile You should still compare piston speed and rod/piston/rocker ratio. Depends how high you want to rev and how fast you want to go. You know as well as I do that automotive speed ain't cheap.
ProjectCarTV 3 months ago
Also I checked out wikipedia and they did say if you search for Hyundai Sonota, that the motor in this video was based off of the Mitsu 4G64 engine lineup..Just thought I would throw that out there.....
Corey3851 4 months ago
@Corey3851 Yes, it does say that, but the Kia Optima doesn't use a Hyundai engine code, and the list of Sirius-powered cars includes the Hyundai Sonata, a few Dodges and other makes... but no Kia Optima.
I know it's user-editable and easily fixed... I was just bringing to light the fact that it's been overlooked for over a decade. Usually that helps guys like us find the parts we're looking for because those cars aren't picked clean in the junkyard if nobody knows to look for them.
Jafromobile 4 months ago
They are saying that you can do the same thing with the motor in the Kia Sportage, it is the same motor shown here I believe....there is video out there Jafro that talks about this....I will have to find it and post it here as a response video. Also, Jamie is the man he should have his own show on Spike instead of the all muscle car hating imports lineup. You and him could build some bad ass frankenstein DSM's......:-) if only.....
Corey3851 4 months ago
evo 1-3 is 7 bolt the VR-4/ galant engine is the 6 bolt
StickGuy0000000001 5 months ago
WOW Thanks a lot for this video! Its scaring me that I acutally followed all of the info lol. I have a 93 galant 4g64 in my 1g Laser and I'm running the stock bottom end of the 2.4 with a 1g head bolted on, currently showing 32/33 lbs/min on my evo316g. I love information like this for Frankenstein motors
xAcidosisx 5 months ago
@xAcidosisx What is that at? 18-20 PSI? That thing's got a lot left in it. You will see!
I was looking for a video of your setup but didn't find it, however; thank you immensely for an opportunity to find that AWD HX40 Dodge Colt video you favorited. That thing is an immense inspiration for me. I LOL'd HARD at that pull, OMG! That thing's beautiful!
Jafromobile 4 months ago
@Jafromobile I may just have to make a quick vid to show you my setup, afaik I haven't seen another setup like mine in a 1g. Its at 16psi currently, I can't run anymore boost without it knocking at peak torque, its really annoying... Thinking I have hotspots on the pistons. But peak airflow I've seen was 33 lb/min around 16 psi at just under 7k rpm. I think retarded 272's helped with that lol.
Glad you saw that colt video, that makes me want a CSM REAL bad haha its a ridiculous setup.
xAcidosisx 4 months ago
@xAcidosisx
I have a 91 Laser too and i am living in Spain... here is very very very difficuld find parts...
dinkodjnos 4 months ago
9:00 is that a supra?
kevinxcal1 5 months ago
@kevinxcal1 Sho iz. Prolly for sale, too. Jamie got all the stuff to swap a 4g63 in it, and changed his mind. It has a running engine in it, just doesn't have a turbo (it is a factory turbo car).
Jafromobile 5 months ago
@Jafromobile Well I have researched the 2GB 98+ stuff since my last two DSMs were a 98 GST and now a 99 GSX. Other than that, I bow out gracefully to your knowledge, I cannot even tell you how much your videos have taught me, I have literally gone from too nervous to start a project to hands grease stained daily with huge projects. Thanks again for what you do for the DSM community.
MichaelCosta84 5 months ago 9
@MichaelCosta84 This. You might as well have handed me the winning lotto numbers because this is why I do this. I just love DSMs. The more of you inspired are just preserving something I love. I'm really just like everyone else that's here, as there are hundreds of DSMers who I would yield the floor to in a heartbeat.
Example. I played guitar in a band with a guy that was 10x better than me. I left that band playing 5x better.
Sometimes it's not all about beating the other guy up. ;)
Jafromobile 5 months ago
Wow Jafro I have learned a lot just now also I wanted to tell you I just got ahold of another project it's a 91 talon awd with a jdm evo 3 6 bolt!!!
sk8erguy1450 5 months ago
@sk8erguy1450 I correct my self haha it has a vr4 spec motor and an evo 3 turbo set up that is my bad for misinforming you. I also have a chance to put up some good info on the 420a in the 2g.
sk8erguy1450 4 months ago
@Jafromobile Your right on that guess...the Evo 1,2,3 is a 7-bolt
sumopower2009 5 months ago
Stroker Crank for a 2g, Head for a EVO, and the Meat Van with everything half off:) Do not know what else I could have asked for. I think this video was out of the ordinary for you but very, very informative to other car enthusiast. Thanks for the info. Tell Jamie thanks for spoiling one trick about the colt. :)
Robert
robertbaxley 5 months ago
@robertbaxley Actually, I didn't give anything about the Colt away... it looks like I did but I'm a master troll. ;)
Can't easily use a crank trigger on the Colt because of the "version" of engine management (i.e.: the stock '92 AWD wiring and ecu). The 1g setup never had it so without DSMlink or a stand-alone, I really couldn't use it. I actually have a completely different trick up my sleeve. :P
But now I know where I can find the sensor! :O
Jafromobile 5 months ago
@Jafromobile I am looking at 10 to 10.5K RPMs on that build, going to be a fun learning experience. I wrote my other comment half asleep, so I am apologize if it came off wrong. Jamie is obviously ridiculously knowledge (just like you), so I figured it was just an oversight or that he just wasn't aware. Both of you definitely put out an awesome amount of information in this post and for that I am grateful. I actually linked a new DSMer to this video, it should be a must watch for people.
MichaelCosta84 5 months ago
@MichaelCosta84 Not at all. No apology necessary! I was actually agreeing with you.
If it's got 6-bolts, Jamie knows every spec off the top of his head. I'm a fan of the '95's because of the engine management aspect, and I've always liked the happy-ass 2g-a body the best. I've never dug into anything newer than a '97 4g63. That's why I wish you were there to help us with that fact! :D
Jafromobile 5 months ago
You guys kick ass! We got to meet up sometime, I'm almost finished with my awd colt.
m180sxr 5 months ago
I know that the later Optimas, Sonatas, PT cruisers, EVOs, and Genesii (?) used first and second-gen GEMA engines. There were still small distinctions between each manufacturer, in a similar nature to the Optima vs Evo.
Cool vid man! Thanks for the insight!
knobcheese69 5 months ago
What is interesting is that these are using Mitsubishi tech. Iirc, the V6 that the Sonata and Optima was using in paralell with this was the Hyundai delta V6, which is in-house just like the beta 4 cyl.
knobcheese69 5 months ago
This is an interesting video, cheers for sharing. In the 90s, Mazda had shares in Kia, and Hyundai was using mitubishi licences. In the early 00s, Kia was going broke, so was bought by Hyundai. Because of this, there were some funky hybridised ex-mazda/half Kia engines used in the Rios and later Sephias.
knobcheese69 5 months ago
lol are you gonna use that crank angle sensor
djdarkmunk 5 months ago
"Hyundai of South Korea, built the Hyundai Pony in 1975 using MMC's Saturn engine and transmissions. Korea's first car, it remained in production for thirteen years. Mitsubishi held up to a 10 percent stake in the company, until disposing of the last of its remaining shares in March 2003."
from wiki on mitsubishi page
it explain the use of this engine in this hyundai .wich detain kia .
Anyway wiki is not the most and complete reliable source imo.
michaelovitch 5 months ago
@michaelovitch Oh yeah, I know... Wikipedia is terrible as far as a "most reliable" source is concerned. In 2000-2001, Mitsu started throwing all of their investments and partners out the window. Closing dealerships, etc.
I just found it amusing that a Sirius engine built in '99 for an Optima isn't in the list of Sirius powered cars... and it's now the end of 2011. Various Dodge, Eagle, Mitsu, and Hyundai cars made it in there... but no Kia Optima.
Jafromobile 5 months ago
@Jafromobile
I found that yes. : )
"kia optima" aka " kia magentis" in Europe and Canada markets is given like powered by sirius engines.
it's on the wiki page of the magentis model.
i'm not bitching.
i just found your vid incomplete enough LOL.
no it was really interesting, even if i have an old volvo. lol
michaelovitch 5 months ago
Well you Guys certainly talk the talk.. ha ha, having said that I did find it all quite interesting, maybe its the way you express yourselves in America, you certainly don't come across as boring.
I look at these engine components as an ex-toolmaker, I marvel at how the pattern makers, model makers, casting manufacturers, have made those intricate cylinder heads and blocks, all good stuff you know and quite clever really.
Great stuff Guys, Its a YES from the UK :-) 5*
Bevoin1970 5 months ago
@Bevoin1970 they sure know their engine specs :))
foxdmulder 5 months ago
I want to correct some misinformation in this post. Mitsubishi switched to split thrust bearing design in 1998, which is why 98-99 engines are not very likely to walk. Evos use the same design as well. Those rods in that Kia engine are identical to Evos as well, they are a good upgrade for us 2G guys (4G64/4G63 use the exact same rods).
MichaelCosta84 5 months ago
@MichaelCosta84 To be fair... this is the only 7-bolt anything that Jamie's ever built. My Mitsubishi Eclipse service manual is a '97 issue, and I own a '95. Neither one of us has been through a '98-'99, so we'd both be unaware of that.
But thank you! Because this is what the comments section is for. :)
Jafromobile 5 months ago
@Jafromobile Wish I could have been here to enjoy this conversation. I am personally doing the 2.1L de-stroker on my car.
MichaelCosta84 5 months ago
@MichaelCosta84 I wish you were, too bud... The best thing I can do for any DSMer is put the information out there, and the more DSMers that chime in, the better the info gets. This is just a start.
How many RPMs do you plan to throw at that setup? All of them?
Jafromobile 5 months ago