Ironic, sad conclusion to this video at 2:20 when the Flight Director's assistant closes the book and they stand there with their heads down. God bless them.
Flight director LeRoy Cain did NOT got fired ! He, Flight director Steve Stitch, Capcom Charlie Hobaugh and the others in the control room did what they could do !
LeRoy who is today The Charman of the Mission Management Team in Houston, one of the highest positions in the Shuttle Program led the following mission STS 114 as the ascent/entry flight director and Steve Stitch was ascent/entry flight director fot a lot of missions after that. So please stop saying that LeRoy was fired !!!!
When the call "Lock the doors" is made, the doors ARE physically locked. Flight control is from that moment on an investigation scene and nothing, absolutely NOTHING, can enter or leave the room. Paper, hard disks, data, all of it is collected. No phone calls are made. Any non-critical network to the outside world is physically disconnected so that NOTHING changes in the room. It is THAT serious.
Back in the day of Gene "Failure is Not an Option" Krantz (one of my heroes), I'm sure he DID order the doors physically locked.
These days, it's a procedure call. When you hear Flight say, "Lock the doors", it means to store your data on your console and record--even if it's by pen and paper--everything you saw...heard...did...thought...before leaving.
It means something terrible has occurred...and is the worst phrase a Flight Controller can use in their entire career.
Terrible, they should have left columbia in orbit around earth and sent up another shuttle to meet up with them in orbit asap.
Someone at nasa surely must have had the intelligence to know that a damaged wing like this would have caused major heating problems on re-entry to earth. Surely their must have been other options than too take the risk on re-entry.
Scorch is not showing any emotions at all. I guess that is what marine training does. I am talking about capcom by the way, not the controller, he was openly crying.
Poor guy with the mustache was near tears, he must have been relaying the reports coming in of falling debris, at that point they knew all hope was lost.
@joesmoe71 He had just talked to an off-duty controller who saw the breakup from his backyard in Texas. That was the first real confirmation that control room had that Columbia was gone.
@Superedit Their professionalism is remarkable, you can tell it hits them all like a sledge hammer to the gut but they keep going with their duties without losing it once, it's exactly the kind of attitude you want and need in a disaster.
@syeager9 No, they - Cain, Ham, and Dittemore - most certainly did not do their jobs - engineers were begging for wing surveillance and were repeatedly shot down. Dittemore remained in denial about the wing even during the post-accident news conference. It was criminal negligence in my opinion and they should have been prosecuted.
Hi, in some other videos they explain the phrase "lock the doors" as literally an order to lock the doors of the room, because in those moments no one is allowed to enter or leave that room, I guess for temporarily keeping safe what is just happened and avoid to let any possibily wrong or too hurried infos to escape out from the room, before the following press release to the media. Considering the situation, it could be possible...
@deimos2k6 Also to save all of the data information leading up to the disaster from being deleted or changed so they can literally pinpoint when things started to go wrong.
@deimos2k6 The order by "Flight" (Leroy Cain) to "lock the doors" was to carry out the beginning a flight contingency procedure that no one enters or leaves the room, no phone calls allowed, and no communication outside the Flight Controller "loops" at Mission Control, until all flight data and notes are secured for later review. It's a part of their training they hope they never have to use.
@Jascender What I know is that the woman was an austronaut who flew shutle before. Don't know the name. As communications, "Flight" is a call signl for flight director, GC - call sign for Ground Contrl, who does the tracking.
@Jascender The woman is Dr. Ellen Ochoa, former astronaut and currently the Deputy Center Director of Johnson Space Center...The console behind the Fight Director is Labeled MOD, which means Mission Operations Directorate...ITs senior staff or managers form the flight director office who sit there during missions
@Jascender That's Ellen Ochoa, representing the Astronaut Office, and Phil Engelauf, head of the MOD, or Mission Operations Directorate. Basically the head of the flight controllers.
@Jascender The woman is astronaut Ellen Ochoa, representing the Astronaut Office, and the man with mustache is Phil Englauf, head of the Mission Operations Directorate (flight controllers).
@Jascender The man was Phil Engelauf who was chief of the mission operations directorate and the lady was Ellen Ochoa who was the chief of the flight crew operations directorate.
I grew up just miles from the launch pad and when the Flight Director issues the order to "Lock the doors" it means that it has now become an investigation and that Mission Control must secure all data through backup. No outside communications are allowed in and nothing leaves. Every accident including challenger followed this procedure. Once it is determined that there was a breakup of any sort the order is given and only by the Flight Director. Both Houston and Kennedy are given this order.
@sazlinc Just a matter of semantics. Everybody can understand that nobody really mean locking the physical doors. As other people said, it means that there will be no communications outside the control room, until all the data are secured. At least it's how I understand it.
@syeager9 My understanding is they do physically lock the doors and don't let anyone in or out until all the data is locked down, the idea is to leave everything exactly as it was at the time of the incident for the investigators to sort through later, almost like police with a crime scene.
No....the control room doors are *PHYSICALLY* locked. I heard Gene Kranz say the same thing during the descent of Apollo 11, and he said, "I said, 'lock the control room doors,' and from that moment, no one would enter, or leave this room, until we had either *landed,* we had *aborted,* or, we had *crashed.*
In a situation like this, the doors are locked (physically) as part of the investigation.
I see. Well, it's still a bummer that the vehicle named after one of science fiction's most famous spaceships (the USS Enterprise) never actually made it into space.
@MrVoxi25 Nobody really knows, if you check other posts here. But I guess it means no communications with outside world outside the control room. No people can go in or out, no phone calls, untill they secure all the data. Have to ask NASA for clarification.
He means just that - to literally "Lock the doors" of the control center - no one would enter or leave the control center, presumably to prevent word from getting out before investigations had been completed. They did the same thing during Apollo 11, and right after the shuttle Challenger exploded in 1986.
@knightryderrwn Yes, I learned about it recently. Besides the doors, nobody can make or recive telephone calls, go in or out, untill all the data are secured. I just wander where the term "Lock The Doors" came from. Sounds like they are prepaired for catastrofic events like this. Aso it's rather amazing that nobody in the control room did express any reaction. Just sitting at their stations and doing their jobs. But, perhaps, Lock The Doors wasn't annouced on PA system.
I don't know where it came from - but, if you watch the "When We Left Earth" DVD about the Apollo missions, Gene Kranz (primary flight director for Apollo 11) says, "I said, 'lock the control room doors,' and from that moment, no one would enter or leave this room (Mission Control) until we had either LANDED, we had ABORTED, or we had CRASHED." So they used it even then.
@knightryderrwn I don't know how I missed "When We Left Earth". Guess I wasn't really into it lately. But I watched all 6 parts online on the Netflix, that my wife subscribes to. Thanks for telling me about it. Nothing really new, but a good refresher.
You seem to be as into the space program as I am - I've been following the Shuttle program since the days of the Enterprise (which should have been refit to replace either Challenger or Columbia) tests at Edwards AFB, all the way through to the current final missions (which are, IMNSHO, a BIG MISTAKE - almost as big as killing Apollo after only 6 successful landings).
Let me continue (and clarify) my last statement - I believe the cancellation of the Shuttle program is a mistake, nearly as big as cancelling Apollo after only 6 successful lunar landings. With NO replacement vehicle on the drawing boards (considering that Orion, the proposed successor to the Shuttle, is now going to serve only as a rescue vehicle to the ISS), the United States' manned space program will, it seems, finally come to an end sometime next year.
@knightryderrwn You are trying to open yet another big can of worms. I don't think that YoyTube is a good place to discuss this question. But, in general, I agree with you.
@TheRaawan Mighty brave words from someone hiding at the other end of thousands of miles of copper wire and fiber optics.
1 - I've already wasted more time on you than you're worth so respond anyway you like, I don't care and I won't bother reading it.
2 - I don't have to waste my time trying to make you miserable because cowards like you act like this online because you're completely impotent in all respects in real life, so keep rattling the bars of your cage at strangers, no one cares.
@TheRaawan It irritates me that I have to share a planet with ignorant creatures like you, do the rest of us a favor and please remove yourself from it as soon as possible, or at least stay off your parent's computer.
"In memory of those who made the ultimate sacrifice so that others may reach for the stars." Such a tragedy that could have been averted had they an escape capsule or something simple as "on board external cameras"! DUHHHHH!!!!
i remember that day. i always wanted to be an astronaut from when i was 4 years old. i remember watching on nasa tv them saying lock the doors and my dad told me, "that's not good". he works at jpl in pasadena
And by the way. Soon after the Challenger disaster in 1986 they evaluated the statistical possibility of catastrophic failure of space shuttle flights. Estimate was 1 out of 70. Right on the money. Guess good old rockets are safer.
@syeager9 I just wanted to say pal that when he says lock the doors he actually means lock the doors. In that situation they shut mission control, do not speak on phones and only speak between themselves. More of the video is in this one.. /watch?v=ddWmo-8Oin8&NR=1
This is why these clowns are out of the space buisness.NASA a group of overpaid goverment bums welcome to unemployment. This is what doing more for less gets you.They place more emphesis on being PC and profiling they forgot what there real job was.Very poor managment and oversight.
@19thSFGA So far NASA did a good job. They put men on the moon. They build the space station. Besides the couple of "oops" they doing fine. Do you really think that the space exploration is going to be free free of accidents? If you do, don't apply to be an astronaut, and if you do, be ready to die.
@19thSFGA Are they overpaid, or doing more for less? Your statement is a self-contradiction. NASA is probably one of the few government agencies that gives back far more than it is paid. Consider examining the annual list of spin off technologies that come out of NASA ... everything from cell phones and laptops to velcro. Blame the politician overseers, but not the engineers, scientists and technicians.
shuttle has to maintain a 40 degree angle upon reentering earth's atmosphere which is impossible for any human to do and the reason for the quadruple redundancy autopilot system. I can't imagine what it felt like in that control room at Houston. Very sad.
LeRoy Cain joins a very exclusive club - having lost a vehicle on his watch. The other members of a club no one wants to join are Jay Greene (Challenger) and John Hodge (Apollo 1). Cain went on to launch the next shuttle after the investigation.
What really amazed me from the beginning is that that the very first flight of the Space Shuttle was manned. Simply considering the complexity of the technology and thousands of things that can go wrong. Even back then they predicted that 1 out of 70 flights will develop some kind of catastrophic failure. And I don't think this number ever changed.
Yep, it's called experimental flight test and there is a 10 percent attrition rate typically (higher the more extreme the vehicles tested). Real astronauts know this. The Space Shuttle program is, with a couple of exceptions, a sequence of publicity stunts covering up a dangerously experimental flight test program. Ask Story Musgrave, or Bob "Hoot" Gibson, or Gordon Fullerton - or John Watts Young (commander of STS-1).
I think it' s not easy to lead a space shuttle mission. every mission is different. who means to know things better, should make suggestions. I know, not everybody is sharing my opinion, but Cain was right, in every sight. And everyone who works at MC or as an astronaut, knows about the risks of a space shuttle mission, especialy the astronauts. our 2nd astronautgroup in germany was selected one year after Challenger. Everyone of them know that this things can happen.
There was a full version of entire sequence of events apparently from NASA TV. But somehow I didn't save it :( May be you can find it among torrents or on some other file sharing services. And yes, telemetry data indicated that there is a big trouble brewing. However everyone at the center kept cool. And I don't think they could do anything as reentry is completely automated.
Yes of course re-entry is automated if your intention is to land the vehicle - but let's say Gene Kranz is flight director instead of the imposter Cain - he would have kicked butt from California to Maine until he had a picture post card of the left wing with a gold filigree border framed on his desk! With him failure was not an option. With this crowd, failure is the only option! Dittemore, Cain, and Ham - "Never forget!"
This incompetent boob is still working. Quoting an email from the CAIB report - "From: CAIN, Leroy Sent: Jan 23 2003 [a week before disaster] The SSP was asked directly if they had any interest/desire in requesting resources outside of NASA to view the Orbiter (ref the wing leading edge debris concern). They said, no. I consider this to be a dead issue."
He should have known instantly that the anomalous telemetry meant big trouble on the left side and taken steps to save the crew (see next)
If action had been taken immediately upon getting the bad telemetry over California and Nevada there was some chance of surviving peak heating with the Orbiter in a condition to allow a bail out. This could have been done by leaving on the RCS jets and flying so that the left wing was in the shadow of the main body to lessen aerodynamic stress and heating on the wing - at the cost of the vehicle to be sure, but there was at least a chance of saving the crew.
Perhaps - but you can tell from his conversation with the FIDOs that he's engaging in wishful thinking - "this isn't happening is it? IS IT?" he should have known better immediately. Something should have been done right after the debris strike was discovered!
These are the very same incompetent, childish, right-wing, uptight yuppies who have destroyed Wall St. eviscerated American manufacturing, emptied the country of decent jobs, and populated Congress with ineffectual nincompoops. I notice Linda Ham skulking in the VIP room, the other culpable person next to Cain. These people died because Ham, Cain and the rest could not deal with physical reality over corporate expediency.
These people died because a foam insulation tile broke off the shuttle and hit the wing. When the shuttle re-entered the heat ripped through the wing and caused the wing to break off, thus causing the shuttle to break up. You have no right to flame the NASA employees because you dont know all the facts, yes there have been FOIA releases and the CAIB released but these dont give the hole picture, its something that is a risk with space travel, re-entry and launch.
On the contrary - I've read both the CAIB and the Crew Survival supplement, cover to cover. NASA is an organization with one objective - to remain in existence regardless of performance or mission. Nothing has changed since Challenger and Columbia. Witness the recent press conference following the LCROSS impact - even a simple "Well that's not what we expected!" is impossible for them to say. Everything must be heroic and perfectly executed, the facts be damned!
And in any case youre premise is false - these people died because no rescue mission was even attempted, and one surely would have been required had mission management - Ham and Cain - not prevented the Air Force from looking at the wing. The lights were all blinking red, and were ignored - just as with Bin Laden before 9/11 - from the CIA to NASA to the FBI to Congress, our government is run by ineffective bureaucrats with no objective other than self-preservation.
The only way you could be sure of that would be to work in the missions directive at NASA, have a background in physical load engineering and thermal heating science, do you have any of these things?
Ok so wheres your background in thermal sciences and load engineering to back that up? Your travelling at mach 20 and 200,000 feet above the earth, what are you supposed to do?
I am a physicist if that's what you want to know. As I mentioned before - there was prior knowledge by both Cain and Ham of the debris strike on the left side, and a long email trail of concern from engineers. The possibility existed to examine the wing with Air Force cameras. This was nixed. Given the failed sensors on the left side there should have been instant understanding of what was happening, as it had been discussed in the previous week.
(contd) Now, there was one possibility to save the crew - in the 60s a pilot wearing a suit very similar to the ACES suits worn by the astronauts survived a bailout from an SR71 at Mach 3 in thin air at 80000 feet. Thus one only needed to make the vehicle stay in one piece until the crew were below 100000 feet - they have enough oxygen in their personal canisters to get down from there. No, this is not nominal procedure, but it could have been tried.
(contd) Cain should have known the vehicle was doomed at the first report of the first sensor failure on the left - this could only come about from hot air in the left wing = a hole in it. Thus, leave the RCS jets on through peak heating, disable aero surfaces, use OMS to break until fuel depletion, and use RCS to keep the wing in the shadow of the main body. There was a chance. Instead, Cain sat there as they died, indulging himself in wishful thinking.
I have been following your long discussion with cutterschoicenotmine. I dont understand your comment on using OMS engines to brake. How would that work ? At this point the shuttle is already entering the atmosphere right ?
The OMS engines are used to deorbit the shuttle. A good analogy is thrust reverse on a civillian jet. It has the same purpose. The OMS are rear mounted as the shuttle orbits in a tail first inverted attitude.
Reentry is completely automated. Nobody in space or on earth could change it. There is only one profile that can bring this thing down safely. No variations.
Couple of problems here. 1. The OMS engines are on the back, they reenter nose first. OMS engines are useless at that point, so how would that work?. 2. Keeping the wing in the main body shadow. That would require a flight attitude that the structure was never designed to take. That alone would have broken it apart. 3. The sensor failed off-scale low (cold), no indication of a plasma burn thru.
@antimatterXXXIII you really dont understand this incident or any crisis if you think anything was possible on the day to stop this from happening...typical monday morning quarterbacking from someone who hasnt ever played in the big game
Also, Cain did not just "sit there, indulging himself in wishful thinking.". He did tag up with both MMACS and GNC to see if anything was amiss in their data beyond the sensor failures.
He also was busy discussing a possible runway end re-selection with FDO.
This video shows only the few minutes where Cain was informed by MOD reps Phil Englauf and Ellen Ochoa about the videos showing the break up and called out the contingency procedures.
RCS is for attitude correction in free-space, they don't pack enough propellent to act as control surfaces during reentry and even IF they did, there's no way for a human pilot to manually operate them to properly allign the orbiter while uncontrolled aerodynamic forces are acting on it at mach 24.5! Furthermore, you can't use OMS to break unless you're falling into the atmosphere backwards and exposing top-back side. Anymove outside the shield's protective cone means sudden death at that speed.
Yes some very quick maneuvering would be needed. Yes side slipping through re-entry would possibly have been catastrophic but on the other hand, North American has a good track record with durable airframes, and the alternative was - well not there. Cain was involved with shutting down the inspection of the left wing, so as soon as the word "left" is heard it was time for action. Instead he lived in denial until they were toast. Piss on him.
"lock the doors" also means that noone will leave nor enter untill they find the cause or solve the problem..the flight director during the time of Apollo 13 said the same thing.
He (Gene Kranz) also said it during the landing of Apollo 11 - "I said, 'lock the control room doors,' and from that moment, no one would enter or leave this room, until we had either LANDED, we had ABORTED, or we had CRASHED." (Caps added for emphasis only).
Thanks for posting this...I've been looking for this for a while. I think the most dramatic part of ths video is at the end when Charlie Hobaugh closes the notebook he'd been using. That pretty much says the situation.
I was following space program since early 60s as a child. It was always my fascination. And when Challenger crashed, I've been collecting video clips and any other information about investigation for myself. Mostly from the official NASA site.
Anyway, this video is from NASA. But I don't think you will find it on their website. May be it's still there, but it's not easy to find.
Ironic, sad conclusion to this video at 2:20 when the Flight Director's assistant closes the book and they stand there with their heads down. God bless them.
smimot 7 months ago
Flight director LeRoy Cain did NOT got fired ! He, Flight director Steve Stitch, Capcom Charlie Hobaugh and the others in the control room did what they could do !
LeRoy who is today The Charman of the Mission Management Team in Houston, one of the highest positions in the Shuttle Program led the following mission STS 114 as the ascent/entry flight director and Steve Stitch was ascent/entry flight director fot a lot of missions after that. So please stop saying that LeRoy was fired !!!!
0720Rico 7 months ago
When the call "Lock the doors" is made, the doors ARE physically locked. Flight control is from that moment on an investigation scene and nothing, absolutely NOTHING, can enter or leave the room. Paper, hard disks, data, all of it is collected. No phone calls are made. Any non-critical network to the outside world is physically disconnected so that NOTHING changes in the room. It is THAT serious.
vagabond142 7 months ago
Everyone looks horrified and like they want to cry... so sad. :(
ForensicsOnTheScene 7 months ago
@knightryderrwn,
Sorry...below I had said "Lock the doors" was the worst phrase Flight Controllers can use in their careers.
I meant, of course, Flight Directors.
"Lock the doors" is a phrase ONLY the Flight Director gets to make. Everyone else just listens and obeys.
laronmaron98 8 months ago
@knightryderrwn,
Back in the day of Gene "Failure is Not an Option" Krantz (one of my heroes), I'm sure he DID order the doors physically locked.
These days, it's a procedure call. When you hear Flight say, "Lock the doors", it means to store your data on your console and record--even if it's by pen and paper--everything you saw...heard...did...thought...before leaving.
It means something terrible has occurred...and is the worst phrase a Flight Controller can use in their entire career.
laronmaron98 8 months ago
Comment removed
laronmaron98 8 months ago
He closed the book....
matrix49A 9 months ago
OMFG Ham (i think thats ken hams ex) is a bitch. Scorch is HAWT
TheeRealJRCroblox 9 months ago
Terrible, they should have left columbia in orbit around earth and sent up another shuttle to meet up with them in orbit asap.
Someone at nasa surely must have had the intelligence to know that a damaged wing like this would have caused major heating problems on re-entry to earth. Surely their must have been other options than too take the risk on re-entry.
twinturbonissan300zx 10 months ago
Scorch is not showing any emotions at all. I guess that is what marine training does. I am talking about capcom by the way, not the controller, he was openly crying.
MsPandaNut 1 year ago
@MsPandaNut Astronaut Mike Massimino said Scorch ( Astronaut Charlie Hobaugh) is one funny guy he did a great job as Comander of STS 129 Atlantis.
Jitsu1980 10 months ago
0:34 You can see the anguish on the ladies face and can read her lips saying "Oh God!"
yourjudgeandjury 1 year ago
Poor guy with the mustache was near tears, he must have been relaying the reports coming in of falling debris, at that point they knew all hope was lost.
joesmoe71 1 year ago
@joesmoe71 He had just talked to an off-duty controller who saw the breakup from his backyard in Texas. That was the first real confirmation that control room had that Columbia was gone.
Superedit 1 year ago
@Superedit Their professionalism is remarkable, you can tell it hits them all like a sledge hammer to the gut but they keep going with their duties without losing it once, it's exactly the kind of attitude you want and need in a disaster.
joesmoe71 1 year ago
funny how the flight director and other controller stand with their hand on their hip sides, just like in Apollo 11.
dargay 1 year ago
i need a hug :-(
andrewc247 1 year ago
thos the flight director get fired ?
TheMorrocmovies 1 year ago
@TheMorrocmovies Nobody in the flight control team got fired. They did their jobs the best they could.
syeager9 1 year ago 26
@syeager9 No, they - Cain, Ham, and Dittemore - most certainly did not do their jobs - engineers were begging for wing surveillance and were repeatedly shot down. Dittemore remained in denial about the wing even during the post-accident news conference. It was criminal negligence in my opinion and they should have been prosecuted.
dirac33 10 months ago
@syeager9 Not fired there was some demotions for poor management.
matrix49A 9 months ago
@TheMorrocmovies The accident had nothing to do with the actions of the mission control crew
joesmoe71 9 months ago
@TheMorrocmovies no but he's not FLIGHT DIRECTOR , for the next mission...
golds079 8 months ago
Wow the anxiety and horror of the flight directors body language and face is almost palpable!
frbe0101 1 year ago 3
Hi, in some other videos they explain the phrase "lock the doors" as literally an order to lock the doors of the room, because in those moments no one is allowed to enter or leave that room, I guess for temporarily keeping safe what is just happened and avoid to let any possibily wrong or too hurried infos to escape out from the room, before the following press release to the media. Considering the situation, it could be possible...
deimos2k6 1 year ago
@deimos2k6 Also to save all of the data information leading up to the disaster from being deleted or changed so they can literally pinpoint when things started to go wrong.
bubblinbrownsugar616 1 year ago
@deimos2k6 The order by "Flight" (Leroy Cain) to "lock the doors" was to carry out the beginning a flight contingency procedure that no one enters or leaves the room, no phone calls allowed, and no communication outside the Flight Controller "loops" at Mission Control, until all flight data and notes are secured for later review. It's a part of their training they hope they never have to use.
thevmanvj 1 year ago
ive noticed that with nasa communication they are so quick to answer a question or each other, i mean its almost instant, crazy
btw who is the guy and woman who were behind where the flight director sits? thanks
Jascender 1 year ago
@Jascender What I know is that the woman was an austronaut who flew shutle before. Don't know the name. As communications, "Flight" is a call signl for flight director, GC - call sign for Ground Contrl, who does the tracking.
syeager9 1 year ago
@syeager9 Her name is Ellen Ochoa, I believe still an Active Astronaut at the time
BenjyCohen 1 year ago
@syeager9
GC= Ground control. FIDO=Flight Dynamics Officer. You can check it out at somewhere 01:22 and learn that FIDO made the tracking
Ripenthon 6 months ago
@syeager9
basvg1 1 month ago
@Jascender The woman is Dr. Ellen Ochoa, former astronaut and currently the Deputy Center Director of Johnson Space Center...The console behind the Fight Director is Labeled MOD, which means Mission Operations Directorate...ITs senior staff or managers form the flight director office who sit there during missions
rebelchamp93 1 year ago
@Jascender I believe the woman you are asking about is astronaut Ellen Ochoa. I'm not sure who the man is.
da40flyer 1 year ago
@da40flyer Phil Englauf, head of the Mission Operations Directorate (flight controllers.)
Superedit 1 year ago
@Jascender That's Ellen Ochoa, representing the Astronaut Office, and Phil Engelauf, head of the MOD, or Mission Operations Directorate. Basically the head of the flight controllers.
Superedit 1 year ago
@Jascender The woman is astronaut Ellen Ochoa, representing the Astronaut Office, and the man with mustache is Phil Englauf, head of the Mission Operations Directorate (flight controllers).
Superedit 1 year ago
@Jascender The man was Phil Engelauf who was chief of the mission operations directorate and the lady was Ellen Ochoa who was the chief of the flight crew operations directorate.
0720Rico 7 months ago
@Jascender @syeager9 They are Phil Engelhauf, NASA manager, and the Deputy Director of Flight Crew operations, Ellen Ochoa.
basvg1 1 month ago
I grew up just miles from the launch pad and when the Flight Director issues the order to "Lock the doors" it means that it has now become an investigation and that Mission Control must secure all data through backup. No outside communications are allowed in and nothing leaves. Every accident including challenger followed this procedure. Once it is determined that there was a breakup of any sort the order is given and only by the Flight Director. Both Houston and Kennedy are given this order.
sazlinc 1 year ago 3
@sazlinc Just a matter of semantics. Everybody can understand that nobody really mean locking the physical doors. As other people said, it means that there will be no communications outside the control room, until all the data are secured. At least it's how I understand it.
syeager9 1 year ago
@syeager9 My understanding is they do physically lock the doors and don't let anyone in or out until all the data is locked down, the idea is to leave everything exactly as it was at the time of the incident for the investigators to sort through later, almost like police with a crime scene.
joesmoe71 1 year ago
@syeager9
I'm no ekspert but according to my knowledge I'm pretty sure that he means literally to close the doors. Otherwise why would he call GC for that?...
They're just closest to the door...
leif657 1 year ago
@syeager9,
No....the control room doors are *PHYSICALLY* locked. I heard Gene Kranz say the same thing during the descent of Apollo 11, and he said, "I said, 'lock the control room doors,' and from that moment, no one would enter, or leave this room, until we had either *landed,* we had *aborted,* or, we had *crashed.*
In a situation like this, the doors are locked (physically) as part of the investigation.
knightryderrwn 8 months ago in playlist Space History
oh my god, how he closed the folder at the end of the vid
very sad :(
Jascender 1 year ago 2
@buccaneer43207,
I see. Well, it's still a bummer that the vehicle named after one of science fiction's most famous spaceships (the USS Enterprise) never actually made it into space.
knightryderrwn 1 year ago
what does he mean when he says lock the doors?
MrVoxi25 1 year ago
@MrVoxi25 Nobody really knows, if you check other posts here. But I guess it means no communications with outside world outside the control room. No people can go in or out, no phone calls, untill they secure all the data. Have to ask NASA for clarification.
syeager9 1 year ago
@MrVoxi25,
He means just that - to literally "Lock the doors" of the control center - no one would enter or leave the control center, presumably to prevent word from getting out before investigations had been completed. They did the same thing during Apollo 11, and right after the shuttle Challenger exploded in 1986.
knightryderrwn 1 year ago
syeager9,
They actually DO lock the control room doors - I read about this after Challenger exploded in 1986.
knightryderrwn 1 year ago
@knightryderrwn Yes, I learned about it recently. Besides the doors, nobody can make or recive telephone calls, go in or out, untill all the data are secured. I just wander where the term "Lock The Doors" came from. Sounds like they are prepaired for catastrofic events like this. Aso it's rather amazing that nobody in the control room did express any reaction. Just sitting at their stations and doing their jobs. But, perhaps, Lock The Doors wasn't annouced on PA system.
syeager9 1 year ago
@syeager9,
I don't know where it came from - but, if you watch the "When We Left Earth" DVD about the Apollo missions, Gene Kranz (primary flight director for Apollo 11) says, "I said, 'lock the control room doors,' and from that moment, no one would enter or leave this room (Mission Control) until we had either LANDED, we had ABORTED, or we had CRASHED." So they used it even then.
knightryderrwn 1 year ago
@knightryderrwn I don't know how I missed "When We Left Earth". Guess I wasn't really into it lately. But I watched all 6 parts online on the Netflix, that my wife subscribes to. Thanks for telling me about it. Nothing really new, but a good refresher.
syeager9 1 year ago
@syeager9,
You seem to be as into the space program as I am - I've been following the Shuttle program since the days of the Enterprise (which should have been refit to replace either Challenger or Columbia) tests at Edwards AFB, all the way through to the current final missions (which are, IMNSHO, a BIG MISTAKE - almost as big as killing Apollo after only 6 successful landings).
knightryderrwn 1 year ago
@syeager9,
Let me continue (and clarify) my last statement - I believe the cancellation of the Shuttle program is a mistake, nearly as big as cancelling Apollo after only 6 successful lunar landings. With NO replacement vehicle on the drawing boards (considering that Orion, the proposed successor to the Shuttle, is now going to serve only as a rescue vehicle to the ISS), the United States' manned space program will, it seems, finally come to an end sometime next year.
knightryderrwn 1 year ago
@knightryderrwn You are trying to open yet another big can of worms. I don't think that YoyTube is a good place to discuss this question. But, in general, I agree with you.
syeager9 1 year ago
@syeager9,
I was speaking in general - but feel free to email me (robertwnielsen@live.com) if you want to discuss this further.
knightryderrwn 1 year ago
nice find bro
pirskwayrd 1 year ago
@TheRaawan Mighty brave words from someone hiding at the other end of thousands of miles of copper wire and fiber optics.
1 - I've already wasted more time on you than you're worth so respond anyway you like, I don't care and I won't bother reading it.
2 - I don't have to waste my time trying to make you miserable because cowards like you act like this online because you're completely impotent in all respects in real life, so keep rattling the bars of your cage at strangers, no one cares.
joesmoe71 1 year ago
You could tell the guy with the mustache was fighting back tears
joesmoe71 1 year ago
@TheRaawan It irritates me that I have to share a planet with ignorant creatures like you, do the rest of us a favor and please remove yourself from it as soon as possible, or at least stay off your parent's computer.
joesmoe71 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"In memory of those who made the ultimate sacrifice so that others may reach for the stars." Such a tragedy that could have been averted had they an escape capsule or something simple as "on board external cameras"! DUHHHHH!!!!
Puff29646 1 year ago
i remember that day. i always wanted to be an astronaut from when i was 4 years old. i remember watching on nasa tv them saying lock the doors and my dad told me, "that's not good". he works at jpl in pasadena
chillaxer1993 1 year ago
Two words-escape system!
Puff29646 1 year ago
And by the way. Soon after the Challenger disaster in 1986 they evaluated the statistical possibility of catastrophic failure of space shuttle flights. Estimate was 1 out of 70. Right on the money. Guess good old rockets are safer.
syeager9 1 year ago
@syeager9 I just wanted to say pal that when he says lock the doors he actually means lock the doors. In that situation they shut mission control, do not speak on phones and only speak between themselves. More of the video is in this one.. /watch?v=ddWmo-8Oin8&NR=1
MrWhisperful 1 year ago
This is why these clowns are out of the space buisness.NASA a group of overpaid goverment bums welcome to unemployment. This is what doing more for less gets you.They place more emphesis on being PC and profiling they forgot what there real job was.Very poor managment and oversight.
19thSFGA 1 year ago
@19thSFGA So far NASA did a good job. They put men on the moon. They build the space station. Besides the couple of "oops" they doing fine. Do you really think that the space exploration is going to be free free of accidents? If you do, don't apply to be an astronaut, and if you do, be ready to die.
syeager9 1 year ago
@syeager9 they went to the moon with tons of help in my opinion
unknotmiguel 1 year ago
@19thSFGA Are they overpaid, or doing more for less? Your statement is a self-contradiction. NASA is probably one of the few government agencies that gives back far more than it is paid. Consider examining the annual list of spin off technologies that come out of NASA ... everything from cell phones and laptops to velcro. Blame the politician overseers, but not the engineers, scientists and technicians.
TeganX7 1 year ago
shuttle has to maintain a 40 degree angle upon reentering earth's atmosphere which is impossible for any human to do and the reason for the quadruple redundancy autopilot system. I can't imagine what it felt like in that control room at Houston. Very sad.
sllopsllop 1 year ago
LeRoy Cain joins a very exclusive club - having lost a vehicle on his watch. The other members of a club no one wants to join are Jay Greene (Challenger) and John Hodge (Apollo 1). Cain went on to launch the next shuttle after the investigation.
Superedit 1 year ago
lock the doors means:
1: doors are literally locked at mission control. no member can leave.
2: contingency plans are initiated.
3: all data, telemetry and any other evidence is gathered. controllers have to take written accounts of everything they saw, heard and did.
dave46563 1 year ago
The emotion on their faces says a lot more than years of crying and bawling ever could.
DeepSixed300 1 year ago
What really amazed me from the beginning is that that the very first flight of the Space Shuttle was manned. Simply considering the complexity of the technology and thousands of things that can go wrong. Even back then they predicted that 1 out of 70 flights will develop some kind of catastrophic failure. And I don't think this number ever changed.
syeager9 2 years ago
Yep, it's called experimental flight test and there is a 10 percent attrition rate typically (higher the more extreme the vehicles tested). Real astronauts know this. The Space Shuttle program is, with a couple of exceptions, a sequence of publicity stunts covering up a dangerously experimental flight test program. Ask Story Musgrave, or Bob "Hoot" Gibson, or Gordon Fullerton - or John Watts Young (commander of STS-1).
antimatterXXXIII 2 years ago
Thing is that they make people think that it is a completely routine thing. Just like Star Trek on TV.
syeager9 2 years ago
her name is Ellen Ochoa ;)
she flow with Rick Husband on STS 96.
Laurel010203 2 years ago
I think it' s not easy to lead a space shuttle mission. every mission is different. who means to know things better, should make suggestions. I know, not everybody is sharing my opinion, but Cain was right, in every sight. And everyone who works at MC or as an astronaut, knows about the risks of a space shuttle mission, especialy the astronauts. our 2nd astronautgroup in germany was selected one year after Challenger. Everyone of them know that this things can happen.
Laurel010203 2 years ago
there is a longer version of this somewhere?
cutterschoicenotmine 2 years ago
There was a full version of entire sequence of events apparently from NASA TV. But somehow I didn't save it :( May be you can find it among torrents or on some other file sharing services. And yes, telemetry data indicated that there is a big trouble brewing. However everyone at the center kept cool. And I don't think they could do anything as reentry is completely automated.
syeager9 2 years ago
Yes of course re-entry is automated if your intention is to land the vehicle - but let's say Gene Kranz is flight director instead of the imposter Cain - he would have kicked butt from California to Maine until he had a picture post card of the left wing with a gold filigree border framed on his desk! With him failure was not an option. With this crowd, failure is the only option! Dittemore, Cain, and Ham - "Never forget!"
antimatterXXXIII 2 years ago
science, ksc, nasa, guv..shuttle..missions..sts-107..movies..
subsitute slash for two dots and dot for comma and o for u
antimatterXXXIII 2 years ago
Thanks for the link. Took me some time to figure it out. NASA hid it real deep.
syeager9 2 years ago
I've tried trying to put the "decoded" link here. No freaking luck. So I guess people have to decrypt your message. But NASA hid it real deep,
syeager9 2 years ago
What is the name of the FD ?
alphafloor71 2 years ago
FD is LeRoy Cain. He was FD of STS-114 Return to flight mission
MrPat1978 2 years ago
This incompetent boob is still working. Quoting an email from the CAIB report - "From: CAIN, Leroy Sent: Jan 23 2003 [a week before disaster] The SSP was asked directly if they had any interest/desire in requesting resources outside of NASA to view the Orbiter (ref the wing leading edge debris concern). They said, no. I consider this to be a dead issue."
He should have known instantly that the anomalous telemetry meant big trouble on the left side and taken steps to save the crew (see next)
antimatterXXXIII 2 years ago
Leroy Cain is one of the best Flight Directors NASA has ever had, you should hold your tongue as you know nothing.
Ronsmytheiii 2 years ago
Ronsmytheiii, you' re absolutlly right.
Laurel010203 2 years ago
If action had been taken immediately upon getting the bad telemetry over California and Nevada there was some chance of surviving peak heating with the Orbiter in a condition to allow a bail out. This could have been done by leaving on the RCS jets and flying so that the left wing was in the shadow of the main body to lessen aerodynamic stress and heating on the wing - at the cost of the vehicle to be sure, but there was at least a chance of saving the crew.
antimatterXXXIII 2 years ago
"everyone is general after the battle"
flastie 2 years ago
Perhaps - but you can tell from his conversation with the FIDOs that he's engaging in wishful thinking - "this isn't happening is it? IS IT?" he should have known better immediately. Something should have been done right after the debris strike was discovered!
-drl
antimatterXXXIII 2 years ago
How long have you been on the flight crew?
cutterschoicenotmine 2 years ago
These are the very same incompetent, childish, right-wing, uptight yuppies who have destroyed Wall St. eviscerated American manufacturing, emptied the country of decent jobs, and populated Congress with ineffectual nincompoops. I notice Linda Ham skulking in the VIP room, the other culpable person next to Cain. These people died because Ham, Cain and the rest could not deal with physical reality over corporate expediency.
antimatterXXXIII 2 years ago
These people died because a foam insulation tile broke off the shuttle and hit the wing. When the shuttle re-entered the heat ripped through the wing and caused the wing to break off, thus causing the shuttle to break up. You have no right to flame the NASA employees because you dont know all the facts, yes there have been FOIA releases and the CAIB released but these dont give the hole picture, its something that is a risk with space travel, re-entry and launch.
cutterschoicenotmine 2 years ago
On the contrary - I've read both the CAIB and the Crew Survival supplement, cover to cover. NASA is an organization with one objective - to remain in existence regardless of performance or mission. Nothing has changed since Challenger and Columbia. Witness the recent press conference following the LCROSS impact - even a simple "Well that's not what we expected!" is impossible for them to say. Everything must be heroic and perfectly executed, the facts be damned!
antimatterXXXIII 2 years ago
And in any case youre premise is false - these people died because no rescue mission was even attempted, and one surely would have been required had mission management - Ham and Cain - not prevented the Air Force from looking at the wing. The lights were all blinking red, and were ignored - just as with Bin Laden before 9/11 - from the CIA to NASA to the FBI to Congress, our government is run by ineffective bureaucrats with no objective other than self-preservation.
antimatterXXXIII 2 years ago
The only way you could be sure of that would be to work in the missions directive at NASA, have a background in physical load engineering and thermal heating science, do you have any of these things?
cutterschoicenotmine 2 years ago
Ok so wheres your background in thermal sciences and load engineering to back that up? Your travelling at mach 20 and 200,000 feet above the earth, what are you supposed to do?
cutterschoicenotmine 2 years ago
I am a physicist if that's what you want to know. As I mentioned before - there was prior knowledge by both Cain and Ham of the debris strike on the left side, and a long email trail of concern from engineers. The possibility existed to examine the wing with Air Force cameras. This was nixed. Given the failed sensors on the left side there should have been instant understanding of what was happening, as it had been discussed in the previous week.
antimatterXXXIII 2 years ago
(contd) Now, there was one possibility to save the crew - in the 60s a pilot wearing a suit very similar to the ACES suits worn by the astronauts survived a bailout from an SR71 at Mach 3 in thin air at 80000 feet. Thus one only needed to make the vehicle stay in one piece until the crew were below 100000 feet - they have enough oxygen in their personal canisters to get down from there. No, this is not nominal procedure, but it could have been tried.
antimatterXXXIII 2 years ago
(contd) Cain should have known the vehicle was doomed at the first report of the first sensor failure on the left - this could only come about from hot air in the left wing = a hole in it. Thus, leave the RCS jets on through peak heating, disable aero surfaces, use OMS to break until fuel depletion, and use RCS to keep the wing in the shadow of the main body. There was a chance. Instead, Cain sat there as they died, indulging himself in wishful thinking.
antimatterXXXIII 2 years ago
I have been following your long discussion with cutterschoicenotmine. I dont understand your comment on using OMS engines to brake. How would that work ? At this point the shuttle is already entering the atmosphere right ?
mach25man 2 years ago
The OMS engines are used to deorbit the shuttle. A good analogy is thrust reverse on a civillian jet. It has the same purpose. The OMS are rear mounted as the shuttle orbits in a tail first inverted attitude.
Learjetjock 2 years ago
Yea, I realize they are used for that. This guy was talking about using them after re-entry. Thanks.
mach25man 2 years ago
Reentry is completely automated. Nobody in space or on earth could change it. There is only one profile that can bring this thing down safely. No variations.
syeager9 2 years ago
@syeager9
Weren't flight controls disengaged moments before the break-up and loss of veichle though?
Kingfordian22 2 years ago
Couple of problems here. 1. The OMS engines are on the back, they reenter nose first. OMS engines are useless at that point, so how would that work?. 2. Keeping the wing in the main body shadow. That would require a flight attitude that the structure was never designed to take. That alone would have broken it apart. 3. The sensor failed off-scale low (cold), no indication of a plasma burn thru.
da40flyer 2 years ago 4
@antimatterXXXIII you really dont understand this incident or any crisis if you think anything was possible on the day to stop this from happening...typical monday morning quarterbacking from someone who hasnt ever played in the big game
hw6420 1 year ago
@antimatterXXXIII
Also, Cain did not just "sit there, indulging himself in wishful thinking.". He did tag up with both MMACS and GNC to see if anything was amiss in their data beyond the sensor failures.
He also was busy discussing a possible runway end re-selection with FDO.
This video shows only the few minutes where Cain was informed by MOD reps Phil Englauf and Ellen Ochoa about the videos showing the break up and called out the contingency procedures.
DaveSSSU 1 year ago
RCS is for attitude correction in free-space, they don't pack enough propellent to act as control surfaces during reentry and even IF they did, there's no way for a human pilot to manually operate them to properly allign the orbiter while uncontrolled aerodynamic forces are acting on it at mach 24.5! Furthermore, you can't use OMS to break unless you're falling into the atmosphere backwards and exposing top-back side. Anymove outside the shield's protective cone means sudden death at that speed.
kanehara83 1 year ago
I uploaded the video just now, it's processing. See my videos.
antimatterXXXIII 2 years ago
Yes some very quick maneuvering would be needed. Yes side slipping through re-entry would possibly have been catastrophic but on the other hand, North American has a good track record with durable airframes, and the alternative was - well not there. Cain was involved with shutting down the inspection of the left wing, so as soon as the word "left" is heard it was time for action. Instead he lived in denial until they were toast. Piss on him.
antimatterXXXIII 2 years ago
Comment removed
whalers59 2 years ago
"lock the doors" also means that noone will leave nor enter untill they find the cause or solve the problem..the flight director during the time of Apollo 13 said the same thing.
nicholas1089 2 years ago
He (Gene Kranz) also said it during the landing of Apollo 11 - "I said, 'lock the control room doors,' and from that moment, no one would enter or leave this room, until we had either LANDED, we had ABORTED, or we had CRASHED." (Caps added for emphasis only).
knightryderrwn 2 years ago
i wish i could hear what they are saying
HuskerFan1097 2 years ago
thank you for posting this. I read about the "lock the doors" deal when it happened, but never seen this video.
doolok 2 years ago
Thanks for posting this...I've been looking for this for a while. I think the most dramatic part of ths video is at the end when Charlie Hobaugh closes the notebook he'd been using. That pretty much says the situation.
whalers59 2 years ago
I was following space program since early 60s as a child. It was always my fascination. And when Challenger crashed, I've been collecting video clips and any other information about investigation for myself. Mostly from the official NASA site.
Anyway, this video is from NASA. But I don't think you will find it on their website. May be it's still there, but it's not easy to find.
syeager9 2 years ago