micheal moore - a lesson in propaganda

[madbcc]

michael moore 4ever :DDD

[battim]

@madbcc michale moore is a propagandist. the rush limbaugh of the left. he is completely ideological and clueless. its fun to watch him squirm.

[madbcc]

@battim dont beat me.. but no hes not... he tells the truth. everything is fights for has been accomplished here in europe a loooooooooong time ago and let me tell you im really sorry but europeans simply live better (and longer) than americans... not to mention the less crime and etc we dont want to get depressed about america now do we :p

[901greatness]

I SAW THAT INTERVIEW AND MOORE MADE SOME VERY VERY GOOD POINTS AND ALL YU HEARD WAS RAPE....YOU REPUBLIC RACIST CLASSICIST FUCK...FUCK YU AND YOUR WHOLE CHANNEL

[battim]

@901greatness michael moore, glenn back. its all the same. hardly a republican. not clissist or racists, but thanks for playing.

[Deeno888]

Sorry my Friend I like your videos, BUT you are so far off the mark. The guy did not compare anything to being Raped. I don't know him well or the show but it was clear he was making a comparison of the stupidity and inappropriate questioning of the length of a girls skirt and her being raped. He is not comparing rape to anything, you obviously don't like the guy but don't let it prejudice your comments.

Telling people he meant that when he clearly didn't. That's Propaganda !

[battim]

no, you are off the mark, he clearly compared it to being raped and the real causes of being raped as oppsed to the silly excuse that she was asking for it. he clearly was saying that folks who think people took loans that were irresonsible were raped. they entered into a consentual agreement, rape is not. it was a clear metaphor. he even admitted he was wrong several days later (typical). that said moore is clearly a propagandist

[JohnAllbright]

Quick question, does battim mean batty man, you have got to be the dumbest fuckin' product of inbreeding I've ever had the misfortune to find myself viewing! You think Michael Moore is just another "propagandist" So... that little girl's picture in Bowling for Columbine was just a statistic which he misrepresented was it?? Or did some dumb fuckin' redneck like yourself actually leave a piece within arm's reach of an impressionable 4yr old child?? Here's an idea, kill yourself! Yours Faithfully!

[battim]

actually, folks like you who are emotinoally driven by one photograph without realizing its one photograph. emotive imagery is easy to use on the dull witted, like yourself. its propaganda, he admits as much.

[battim]

del, you are an intellectual zero. your stuff is just regurgitated propaganda you heard from rush limbaugh the day before. if you really think having a big audince makes you smart, you are sad. really.

[murbones]

Ya, micheal moore was wrong in his statement but otherwise is mostly right.

[battim]

michael moore, for the most part, lie through his teeth to further an agenda.

[UtubeCritics]

I like what your gettin at. It really is. Now like the guy under me said, not all propagandas bad, just got to decide right for yourself.

UtubeCritics: The source of video comments and updates!

[battim]

Look forward to checkin out your stuff

[Rahab111222]

Moore is a propagandist, but not all propaganda is bad. Thomas Paine was a propagandist.

[UtubeCritics]

i agree with that

[battim]

Maybe at least george III would disagree it wasn't bad ;)

[uglyengineer]

Moore is an ass anyway.

[mymotherlode]

Being in the middle of a home buying deal the eyes are bigger than your stomach is quite right. In the system people get commissions from selling you a home that is more expensive than you can afford. it is the lenders who need to suffer for approving the bad loans.

[battim]

I agree bail them all out or none at all. There is a good argument that bailing out the borrowerers indirectly does bail out the lenders. Either way a contract implies not just consent but two way responsibility

[battim]

By law contractual obligations are a two way street. Unfair. Yes. Legally no. Rape is not a contract.

[ReluctantRedneck]

On the other hand, predatory lenders are, for the most part, white collar thieves. It doesn't bother me that folks who can't pay their mortgage lose their house. We're not bailing them out. Lenders who knowingly lend to folks who aren't capable of repaying and then bundling the bad debt to resell to investors are the true bad guys and should go to jail.

[ReluctantRedneck]

Love the new logo, music and intro. Very slick. I agree it was a pretty goofy comparison by MM. I also agree that folks should read their contracts on life-changing purchases and should seek counseling if they can't control their impulse buying.

[ROFLGeek]

I agree that comparing to rape is a way over exaggeration of the issue at hand. As a nation we need to start living within our means. And that would mean not being able to get a house until you are probably 60. But banks are more than willing to give you some money for 30 years or more. You end up paying for the house 3 times over. It would be better to buy a nice trailer 5 bed 2 bath trailer home and put it on some land for under 100k then deal with the robbing banks. That's why I don't!

[AlexGrim]

Well I'm sure there are people entering into contracts all the time that are knowingly or unknowingly being raped, figuratively speaking of course. Some people don't have a choice and must go with the agreement at hand amd some just don't know any better. I always liked Colmes more than Hannity anyway. Moore just likes to stir shit up, I've questioned his motives for awhile. Other people's hardship is his meal ticket. I'd make a fat joke, if it was't for Roger.

[battim]

My problem is with the figure of speech.  It desensitizes what most sociobilogists and psychologist consider the most horrific of human offenses. Taking away a womans freedom to chose a reproducitve partner.

[AlexGrim]

Would you prefer "screwed"?

It would seem that your gripe is all in the terminology. We know what Moore was saying, you just wish he would have used some other words.

[battim]

if only the description moore gave were so vanilla as simply saying "rape"

it painted a picture in our minds. he didn't use it as venacular. it was a vivid, and faulty, metaphor

[AlexGrim]

If that's truly the case and he was far from figuratively speaking on the plight of these people, then I have even less regard for him than I did before. If it is the case, he's really gone nuts if he thinks people will believe that line of talk. Has he totally flipped out? Maybe it's a sign of the times. Best to disregard his words hence forth then. If people actually believe him in large masses, then it will deserve some attention.

[battim]

well moore has a fringe, alex jones has a fringe. the truth, as they say, usually fall somewhere in the middle.

[AlexGrim]

I just watched the clip again, and maybe he was reaching and couldn't come up with anything better to say to Hannity quickly. I'd let it slide. I'm not a fan of Moore, but I'm not gunna call him on this. Count it as a strike, and hope he doesn't make any more of them against victimized women.

I'd trust Jones over Moore, I'm sure you'd figure this of course. Yes it usually does fall in the middle, and I'll even listen to the furtherest fringe so my gauge of the middle is dead on.

[JohnnyStorm2007]

Great video. Glad everything is well in GotTIM City.

[ASECONDCHANCEAROUND]

**Kisses**

: )

[cooksterz]

i think those that find voice, within the media, seem to expunge the real value and believable truth, they could be bringing to this seperated and disconnected country!

[battim]

United we stand...divided we fall

[pallas1957]

ITS A METAPHOR OR ANALOGY. . . A Figure Of Speech. . . AS IN FREEDOM OF SPEECH. . . Which Seems To Be Seen As A Threat To Some.

[battim]

If you have ever taken a critical thinking class. Which you apparently have not, its a false metahpor and therefore a logical fallacy. He has the freedom to be illogical and lie, so do you, and I have the right to call him out on his logcial fallacy

[pallas1957]

I Never Had To Take A Class To Learn How To Think For Myself. . . I Subscribe To Your Channel Because I'm Interested In What Others Have To Say Even Though I May Not Agree With Them. . . And I Don't Believe Someone Is Spreading Lies Or Propaganda Whenever I Disagree With Somebody's Opinion. . . I Did Take A Spelling Class In The 6th Grade So At Least I Spelled METAPHOR AND MICHAEL Correctly. ;o)

[battim]

Thinking for yourself usually requires a bit of a backround lgical constructs. As I am pointing out, micahel made a false metaphor, not to mention a tasteless one. That said. The very foundation of propaganda is a tiny turth wrapped in emotive misinformation. That is exactly what he is doing. I type from a phone. Spelling mistakes will happen

[pallas1957]

Typing From A Phone ? Let Me Guess. . . While Driving Your Car ? LOL ! Pull Over, Park And Type Slower. xD . . . I Listen To Different People's Opinions About A Subject. I Actually Watch The News, Read Magazines And Newspapers (Unlike Most People These Days.) And I Draw My Own Conclusions. I'm A Good Judge Of Character And I Can See The Difference Between Truth And Bullshit. Michael Moore Wasn't Talking About The Crime Of Rape. He Was Talking About The Victim Being Blamed For Causing The Crime.

[battim]

Ny mom used to say when I ordered to much food "your eyes are bigger than your mouth". That is what these borrowers did. They were not forced to get those mortgages...they literally sought them. By moores logic someone raped was "looking for sex but instead got raped." Its a faulty metaphpor and tasteless. Its a false metaphor. A better metapohr would be "some one thought they bought a new car but it had an old engine". The comparison to rape was false.

[bbg5000]

Battim, you are really against MM. lol.

Most arguments from Moore, Hannity, O'Reilly, etc, most have some facts to back it up. Unfortunately they seem to cherry pick, twist and distort the facts to conform with their opinions. But it's a broken system that allows them to misrepresent facts as opinion. It's sensationalized to catch the attention of more people. More people, more money. Michael Moore says it's Capitalisms fault. It kinda is. lol there is no perfect economic system.

[battim]

I'm really against sean hannity to. I've done many more vlogs bashing him than I have moore

[JimmerSD]

Can they possibly dumb America down any more?

[m92583]

Michael Moore is a douche. He claims that he is from Flint. I was born and raised in the east side of Flint MI. Michael was raised in Davison MI, a cozy suburban community and only moved to Flint to exploit it in his movies and in his shitty newspaper booohooing about how terrible living there was.

[m92583]

Yeah flint is tough but most of our parents working for gm weren't complaining, it was good money while it lasted. moore never took into account that quite a few shopworkers were drug addicts and alcoholics who did a shitty job on the line anyway. fuck him.

[ifurn0]

Has anyone here been raped and has a mortgage which sucks? So we can compare?

On a serious note...

Michael Moore is cool.

[battim]

Have u ever seen someone right after a rape? Cmon

[ifurn0]

Hmm, not right after. But I do know someone who was abused at a young age.

Keep attacking Moore, he must be 'fun' to attack.

[battim]

Honestly I would rather the propagandists like him and hannity to go away. They are dumbing down the sheep.

[PappyStu]

Moore rants against capitalism while he rakes in millions... If he donated it all to charity and lived like Ghandi we might almost believe he is not full of you know what...

[battim]

And he lied through his teeth in the interview. He aid "I guess with my homes appreciating I am a millionaire". He is reportedly worth over 70 million dollars, that's populism?

[OhCurt]

Wow. Just... wow.

[appybuddha]

I think Moore had some great points, but I agree, that his analogy was a logical fallacy. Hannity trying to blame it all on the poor was even worse.

[battim]

Hannity is a moron but he never blamed it on the poor. Moore was begging the question when he brought up the poor. You need to give me one example of someonebelow the poverty lin that got a mortgage.

[JaalaJ]

Yep Moore is a little bitch. He is a money grabbing little twit, who knows very little about what he drones on about as demonstrated by his films. He is both a shill and an idiot.

[embracedestruction]

Intro to Macro Econ courses will teach you that in a free market, entities will behave rationally.

But they don't. People take out loans that are irrational for them and for the bank. Every entity involved should had known that the numbers weren't right, but were too short sighted (focused either on getting what they want without having to save or making a tidy profit) to think rationally.

The question: who's responsible?

And how do we limit the damage they do to the rest of us?

[battim]

Wow, a rational response on youtube. They are all responsible as are those who supposed to regulated them. In the end the resnsible pay

[lazlo5149]

I saw the whole interview, and this quote is taken out of context. Hannity is trying to blame the whole situation on people that took out mortgages they couldn't pay back. He's spewing all the nonsense about Carter and the Housing Reinvestment Act, blah blah blah.

Obviously those people should take some blame - but it's not the reason this economic crisis happened. It just isn't. Otherwise I thought the interview was surprisingly civil, and Moore definitely got the better of Hannity.

[HarlinHail]

Good start but it felt like this video ended abruptly after your opening statement. I was expecting you to break down their whole interview clip, while ripping both Moore, and Hannity a new one.

Anyway keep up the good work.

[battim]

Hannity didn't even say much. He stuttered most of the time.

[robrobbins]

Mortgage contracts are incomprehensible and the exact moral equivalent of rape.

[battim]

To compare shady business practices to rape is ridiculous. How is taking away a womans innate reproductive rights in picking a sex partner and violating her soul akin to someone stupidly enetering into a consentual contract. If folks don't understand the difference between fixed or variable rates they don't need to be home buying

[robrobbins]

Rape and mortgage contacts are equally exploitive. They are both an abuse of trust and a misuse of power. And they both involve bending over and taking it up the rear.

[Ramiiam]

Shoot. Guess I'll have to see that darned film.  Was hoping to avoid it.

[skitplace]

Here in Sweden we <3 MM!

[battim]

propagandist have fans all over the place. folks like hannity too. doesnt make either of them right.

[felixthehuman]

Why is he so popular, if you don't mind my asking.

[battim]

Same reason limbaugh is. Honestly 4 million bucks in an opening weekend is paltry and not indicative of popular. Moore and limbaugh are popular because they tell people what they want to hear. Europeans like him because he bashes america

[battim]

Same reason limbaugh is. Honestly 4 million bucks in an opening weekend is paltry and not indicative of popular. Moore and limbaugh are popular because they tell people what they want to hear. Europeans like him because he bashes america

[felixthehuman]

Is that all it is re:Europe? I remember when Fahrenheit 9/11 came out I got the idea they considered him a real journalist- but this was from the same paper that thought it would be a good idea to adopt American voters and write them letters about why it was important that they not vote for George Bush.

[battim]

Michael moore is to journalism is what bozo the cllown is to comedy. Nothing deep, hirridly shallow and intellectually numbing

[Ranblv]

The comparison to rape was unfortunate but not really the issue.

The one difference between hannity and moore is that moore actually wants to help all americans while hannity just preaches hate to anything not conservative.

they are both attention whores who use provocative punchlines but every intelligent person sees through it.

[battim]

exaclty, not the issue, his movie was fool of shit like this, like his attack on senator dodd that was based in lies and his attaqck on walmart while ognoring its been a decade since they've practiced peasant insuring. its all based in fear based lies.

[jx14aby]

Which is exactly why I will not watch either of them. The only way to kill them is: Do not watch.

I wasn't going to watch this video, but I thought I'd get Battim's view.

[socialmedianinja]

they are out to butt fuck you and that is all there is to it, this is not propaganda this is a warning.

[battim]

warning should be based in calming facts, not sensationalized faluthy metaphors. using faulty reasoning helps no argument.

[hypothetisch]

Moore seems to be losing his edge he used to be able to do all kinds of horrible things and nobody would call him on it except the hard right

Now it hear everyone even on the left crisizing him on the same things he's being doing for the past 30 years

[battim]

yes. his attacks on chris dodd (dem) in this documentary were hapless and applaing and bordered on slander. dodd may be repsonsible for some bad fiscal policy, but he never did an damn thing wrong when refinancing his home. he also made a decent woman and a great watchdog over banks look like an idiot by splicing up her clips.its was horrid filmmaking. krugman and many economist on the left agree that the bailout saved us from goabal catastrophe, moore implies we'd have been fine without it.

[Greensborrow210]

your such a hater.....now if' you'll excuse me, me and mike have to investigate 9-11

[battim]

go to it, alex jones is free too.

[FatWagar]

Im giving you 5 stars on this one because I concur wholeheartedly with your disgust of MM's analogy.

However, I believe MM just feels "raped" by the whole system

[battim]

he has made a lot of money getting raped then, huh?

[hunterswine]

He did not compare the contract to rape! Open you ears! He was comparing Sean's ignorance to the fact of HOW THAT CONTRACT WAS SIGNED to blaming the victim! Did you even listen to the interview?

[battim]

he compared the action of mortgage companies to rape. go rewatch it. if there were victims then we would have to assume that both parties were victims. the banks lost their ass and the people lost their ass. either that or we could place blame on both for being irresponsible (and the government for ignoring the problems)

[jasonpalth]

Both parties are in no way the victims. The banks got a home out of someone defaulting, and the owner got kicked out. And of course you have to sign a contract to get a house.

The big problem in US is that people don't get enough in wages or government benefits to live comfortably. That's why our consumer culture is warped around trying to live beyond our means. Because quite frankly, our means ain't much.

Rather than blame specific individuals, I we need to reform our view of the economy.

[battim]

that why i said "if" there were victims. michael moore makes one side out to be a victim. at some point personal responsibilty has to come into play. the banks got a home that is worth upwards to 40 percent of what they lent to get it. thats called being underwater (and forbes among others have predeicted more than half of hte homes in america are just that)

i agree, we need to reform our psyche in many ways.

[DantarBlade]

I'm not quite sure what that had to do with Seah Hannity, but you're definitely right about Michael Moore. The comparison is entirely inaccurate.

[battim]

i've dealt with sean in the past, he has his own propaganda issues, birthers and such.

[jasonpalth]

It's called predatory lending. Banks and mortgage holding companies convince people that they can buy houses only to jack up interest rates. We still have a lot of redlining in this country.

Now you don't really show much of the video, so I don't see the full context of what they're talking about. But I think Moore is right on this. Maybe you could argue that the metaphor is extreme, but in either case, a lot of people are cheated by the companies that tell them that they can afford houses.

[battim]

one has to sign. we live in a country that has gobs of free legal counseling on such matters. you are right in the context, he is talking about the banks, but to blame them only is silly. people were lving beyond there means, banks were lending beyond their means. the metahpor isn't just extreme, its faulty.

[KiheiLawyer]

I don't know if I agree with you one this one. While I believe in self responsiblility, banks have underwriters that are there to make sure the borrower has the ability to pay. There are underwriting laws that banks must follow, thus the BANK is there to police the system. BANKS were using bullshit appraisals, no document loans and reviewng income based upon current interest rates, NOT income based upon how high the loan interest could go..

[KiheiLawyer]

the American dream has been to own a home and that's what people were trying to do. I do not expect the average American to understand that the federal reserve was artificallly holding interest rates low due to global concerns over the dollar, inflation and recession. Most people were under the impression that interest rates would stay at the levels the had been at for nearly a decade and not sky rocket within 18 months. the fed raised interest rates more than 12 times in 18 months, wow.

[battim]

again, counseling folks, free counseling told folks about these things. history did as well. interest rates were much higher just 20 years ago. anyone who went to ACORN would have been told, because i have friends that they told, that a fixed rate is the ONLY way to do it.  stupidity is no excuse.

[battim]

No doubt about it. like i have said in comments here, both parties were irresponsible. at the same time, folks have the ability to say "i can't afford it and i do not understand the term so i need a second opinion" the banks were swindling folks, not raping them. people were willing partners. not forced victims. the metaphor is faulty.

[DynaCatlovesme]

There are millions of mortgage contracts, some of which really are accurately described by Moore and others that fit your description. He was (I presume, as I have only seen your excerpt here) only referring to some, not all, mortgage contracts. There are very clueless people who are also very susceptible to slick sales pitches that were completely bamboozled into contracts that destroyed them. To say so is not propaganda.

[battim]

he claimed in the interview its was 80 percent. regardless, if one signs a contract they have obligations as well. if folks are clueless, we have social darwinism to deal with that. our rights are equal, not our faculties. ignorance is no excuse. its like telling a racist its ok to racist cause he don't know any better.

[DynaCatlovesme]

In some targeted areas, I'm sure it was 80%. Now, I don't have any data, but since I still get Nigerian Scam emails, I'd say it's a safe assumption that it remains a profitable enterprise. Do you say "Too bad for the suckers?" There simply are so many ways to be clueless, that everyone is clueless about something. These guys SOLD mortgages and they convinced people they were helping them. When that happens, you do feel raped.

[battim]

Dyna I really like you. But comparing this to rape is tasteless and pointless. To keep repeating it as if it has any merit. Which it does not, demeans and is emotionless towards those who have been through such a horrible ordeal. Seriously, the metaphor is sick and tasteless.

[mymotherlode]

If you will sleep with anyone you're called a slut, if you will do it for money your are a prostitute. Rape by definition is that you do not consent but are forced. The slang term the you "feel raped" is misused I can't even get into the "inviting" trouble issue- there is never an "excuse" to violate someone physically.

[DynaCatlovesme]

It's correct to say they are not the same, but the language is inadequate so we do the best we can. Being "stabbed in the back" by someone you trust feels about as bad as anything can, I assure you.

[battim]

I think that it is intellectually unjustifiable and unfair to those who have been raped to use it as a metaphor for consetual contractual obligations. That is my only point. Folks have many free resources to seek couseling about financial contracts. Rape is unavoidable, agreeing to bad financia terms is not

[MadBadVoodo]

LOL @ Two birds one stone!! BTW Tim I would love 2 see you do a review on Michael Mores new movie... One last thing before I go Michael More can Fuck Off! Just sayen

5/5

[battim]

i know you'll probably hate this, but the worst part was his incessant lying about chris dodd. its as if he were trying to be balanced by bringing him up and his facts were all wrong. dodd policies contributed to the collapse, but he didn't do anything out of the ordinary when refinancing his home.

[MadBadVoodo]

I need 2 see the movie but I don't want 2 put any money into that capitalist pigs pocket! So I will find it on line 4 free!! BTW if Dodd did nothing out of order then let the record reflect that, I dont like witch hunts right or left

[battim]

dodd was cleared. the interest rates and fees were in line with industry standard at the time.

[MadBadVoodo]

Then More needs 2 step off of Dodds dick...

[rafen8705]

good point.