Religion is a psychological disorder and should be treated as such. Political leaders in the US like Santorum, Bachman, Romney, all republicans really, is akin to allowing mental patients to run the country. Obama, may not be AS afflicted as his GOP counterparts, but his thought processes are also retarded by his "faith".
@blackestjake A psychological disorder? For real? Don't you think that's a bit extreme? Religion is the effect of our thirst for Transcendence in conjunction with our very deep ability of imagination. It's not a disorder; it is something that is bound to be created by a species like ourselves. We should be thankful that we have the ability to imagine and believe in something Higher. We shouldn't be thankful of the fact that we're inclined to apply these beliefs to politics and etc.
@983215ljhlkadbspig6y "A psychological disorder? Don't you think that's a bit extreme?" No. "Religion is the effect of our thirst for Transcendence in conjunction with our very deep ability of imagination." Imagination is great. But a 'thirst for Transcendence'? What's 'Transcendence', specifically? Depending on your answer, and whether there's any such thing, a 'thirst' for it may be anything from a need that doesn't require belief in fairy tales to, indeed, a disorder.
That is, I don't believe atheists should try to establish or organize themselves as another kind of religion with their own ethical codes, traditions, etc. We mainly just combat theism and help explain things to people who chose to deconvert--if any one of us so chose to. Insofar as organizing anything political--I mean other than attacking theism, I don't see anything new we'd bring to the table that hasn't already been offered via general democratic principles.
@utubesux222 I think you're right. If atheism does anything except reject religious beliefs it ceases to be atheism and becomes an organised movement of ' atheists who believe in human rights etc...' Then it should probably just be called human rights group.
@SirMonkeyoftheBrook And I do think there's a demand for it even without getting really involved in politics. Just getting the message out for the newly deconverted (which there will be a lot more of in the future) would probably suffice along with continuing the great debate and publishing. I think that should seperate "atheists" as a political movement. Anything else we could just pass off to a preexisting political group on the subject, which any atheist is free to support if they please.
This does and does not bother me a great deal. Most atheists, forgive me if I'm wrong here, this was a long time ago, (a survey of around 10,000 or so atheists) are fairly left-leaning. I don't see a huge point to any sort of organization among atheists unless it is to keep giving religions a reality check and offer support as a kind of alternative to people who want to deconvert from their indoctrinated religion.
I believe that religion has no monopoly on virtue. You really can be good without God. I also believe that, given the lack of evidence for it, religion has no claim on anyone who isn't interested in it. You really can just tell the missionaries to bug off.
Thirdly, we have to show people that they don't have to go to church to hang out with their friends. Atheists have to make Atheistic counterparts to the songs, schools, boys/girls clubs, get-together places, ect. that religious people have. Also, they have to be BETTER than religious ones, that provides an incentive to NOT BREAK ATHEIST LAW.
All of this can be condensed into a 4-5 page pamphlet entitled "Atheism"
I hope someone actually has the patience to read this.
Also in it, a set of ethical laws. These laws in no way have to be dogmatic. They can be written by not only the "counsel" of New Atheist I have described but my unanimous call from the Atheists themselves. We also have to form a punishment system.
You break the law, you are excluded from the Atheist community, you can no longer say you are an Atheist, or partake in any of the Atheist community affairs(which I will get into soon enough)... (Continued)
I personally think that the only way to make Atheism a true movement is it must act like a movement.
I propose that we gather all the top New Atheists and they devise a book, a manifesto, a pamphlet that can be passed along in the subway to unsuspecting people about Atheism.
In it, the definition of Atheism. If you are a "moderate" atheist, you aren't an atheist. The definition must be redefined to be someone who is more involved in the atheist community.... (Continued)
I'd say people everywhere in the world should abandon patriotism and nationalism. The nation state is a fairly recent construct, it only serves to divide the people of the world. Why support "our troops" that are on a murderous big business serving mission?
Yes, we should extend our solidarity to the poor sods who are drafted from the slums of america into the army to do the bosses' budding, dying and being maimed in the process. But no support to the institution that causes all the misery!
I like seeing that secularism is gearing up in the US, but it that puts me off is that he keeps going on about "patriotism". It's striking that this notion of patriotism is so prevelent in the US, even in secular circles. Patriotism to me is much like religion. Just becouse you are born in a certian country does not mean your allegiance must lie with that place. Just as little as when you are born to christian parents you are a christian child and your allegiance lies with christianity.
If atheists ever expect to grow or establish political activism they must "bite the bullet" and have a set of principles that they do espouse. It is naturally devisive and dogmatic, but it must be done. Because simply saying you're atheist tells the average person nothing except you don't believe in the supernatural. How 'bout economics? justice? foreign relations? etc.?
@LimesNorrlandicus Religion is something you believe in and take time to devote yourself with. One can say money is religion cause we devote our whole life revolving around financial currency. So yes Atheism is part of religion in a different category cause you guys focus on something you believe in which is you don't believe in god and his rules.
People that listen to Dawkins are as blind as people that listen to Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity. Its about saying whatever people want to hear and making a lot of money doing so.
Heck yeah Eastern Kentucky University!!!! It was a very comforting thing to see the packed house give a standing ovation. I was very surprised honestly, having lived in KY all my life I had the impression that someone with my mindset was a rarity. But having all of those people roaring and the religious problem was a comforting thing to witness.
I liked the speech and I'm inspired to join up with other atheists and talk about these things. The real power of religion is the social strength of mandatory lectures and social time.
I now want to go into churches and try to spread a positive view of secular thought. Here in Oklahoma the number of closeted atheists is usually really high and I want to show them that it is safe to be themselves.
Excellent stuff. I would add that education should be top priority - and not just to remove religious bias. It is a panacea; give all Americans a good science education and teach them to think critically and skeptically and religion will eventually die out on its own.
Dawkin's groupies like to repeat this argument that they just believe in one less god after rejecting Zeus, Thor, Isis, Shiva, etc. They imply an equivalency between the one God of Aristotle and Aquinas but in fact there is none. It's like they say "well you know Thales and Heraclitus thought water and fire were the ultimate principles of the universe therefore quantum physics is a bunch of hooey." Just because other folks got it wrong doesn't mean that others did. God is the uncaused cause.
@mattlewis66 Love, and 'things happening/existing', is not really evidence. Allah says he gives love too. Buddhists say love is a life redeeming itself and heading out of the mortal coil, the Jewish god can claim that love is his doing too. Rationalism can claim that love is a powerful emotion that human consciousnesses experience.
Apologies for the rudeness others have shown you here, but it is youtube. The nastier elements of any movement seem to rear their heads here.
@Pomguo Well thanks for that Pomguo but you need not apologize for others. I do think that noble love is evidence. I don't think material evolutionists can really explain why most people think it is a noble thing for a strong man to save a weak man and die in the process. The whole idea of laying down one's life for another really does not compute in the world of Dawkins where natural selection explains all.
@mattlewis66 I think there're multiple evolutionary benefits for such responses - you see various societal animals exhibiting the same behaviour. But it doesn't make it any less beautiful or noble. Atheism does not see the world as ugly or boring or random, quite the contrary.
@mattlewis66 You so readily address evolution yet you do not attempt to understand the full weight of what you are saying. Natural selection as you use it seems to be 'survival of the fittest' or Darwinism.
See, natural selection is at play on all levels of biology. The perpetuation of a species is the perpetuation of dna. From that perspective it matters less which individual survives and more that one survived.
Sacrifice for others is empathy and sympathy overcoming egoism.
@mattlewis66 just because this idea of noble love as you call it isnt proven doesnt mean that makes god real and for that fact alot of these things as we call em come from social backgrounds everyone calls hitler the most evil man in history but he was raised to hate jewish people its very well known that he was catholic n at that time the catholics in n around germany hated jewish people
@mattlewis66 And how then do you explain the uncaused cause? And why not believe in Zeus or Thor or the Pink Unicorns, and who are you to say they are NOT the uncaused cause? If there is an uncaused cause then by definition there can be no evidence for it. Christian Scientists pray to god for a cure, myself, I prefer to go to a trained medical doctor. Have fun with your imaginary friend.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
@Dancinstan1 There is nothing imaginary about Christ who was crucified under Pontius Pilate almost 2000 years ago. There is nothing imaginary about the blood and wounds, nor about his perfect compassion. Do you think the one thief was looking at an illusion when he was invited into Paradise?
@mattlewis66 I will always make fun of silly beliefs and I hope grayzieguy does the same. I don't want to insult you, as I was once a christian, but I want you to think. I want you to use the brain that billions of years of evolution has given you. With that brain you can realize just how silly religion and faith really are.
@hawklord2001 It annoys me, too, when religious people use their unsubstantiated assumptions as, somehow, infallible fact. You can't negotiate with people like that.
Agreed. Earliest know copy of the Gospel of mark which is considered the first account of Jesus ends @ ch 16:8. It would suggest that the resurrection story was added later to beef up the story.
@mattlewis66 I'm curious as to how you, or anyone for that matter, might know what someone else saw? Is it because you read it in the bible? And you know the bible is true because it says it is? Surely you must realize that this does not constitute proof of any kind. There is no valid historical evidence for the existence of this christ, and certainly not for any "miracles". Believe or not as you choose, but don't expect others to follow blindly along any longer.
How one atheist can grieve for another is one of those atheistic paradoxes. You know, they say one thing, like there is no purpose in life, and yet weep in tears over the death of a fat drunk as if his life had meaning. Or maybe I am being too narrow-minded. Those tears are just another manifestation of particles interacting with each other according to eternal laws of physics are only an illusion of feeling. Right all you Dawkin lovers?
@rosenerik Right, and that reality is, according to you atheistics, that choice, beauty, love, feeling, ideas, free will, art, poetry is all really just a function of physical laws on subatomic particles.
@mattlewis66 you're such a dick - spitting on a man's grave is so christian of you... We mourn exactly BECAUSE we know that this is the only life we get and that we'll never get to see the departed again. Why do YOU cry and mourn the dead, if you believe in an afterlife? And after all, we do you even fear death? Why don't you rejoice when your family and friends die? They're supposed to be in a better place, aren't they? Unless (and because) you're a fucking hypocrit. Or a liar. Your pick, dick
@SolDeSaBelle You certainly mistake me. I believe that life has meaning and that we make our choices here and now in preparation for the afterlife. It's you atheists and agnostics that go around bashing people who think like I do but then act as if life has meaning but getting all sad-faced, drunk and pathetically melodramatic when some accidental collection of particles who was called Hitchens disintegrates.
@mattlewis66 You do seem sad. Does it worry you that future generations will not fall for religious indoctrination. A little bitter even when you get called on your bullshit?
@Benobo1t No, not at all. Christ was sad but never despaired. The martyrs felt pain but knew the joy of dying for Christ even when the entire pagan world of Rome beat them down into bloody pulp. How can I possibly ever feel sad in any lasting way knowing that He and they went before me?
@mattlewis66 You should realize, when you flag a comment as spam, it does'nt go away. It only makes people interested in what was being censored, and end up looking at the hidden post anyway. In your case, they see delusional fail is apparent.
@Benobo1t I did not flag anything as spam. In fact, I replied to a reply by XGraltholor which was spammed by someone else. The only posts I spam are those which are disgusting in the hopes they will eventually be removed because of too many negs.
@TheTazzietiger You spelled tale wrong. And no, I believe in a Man who walked this earth, preached love and forgiveness, raised the dead, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, died, and then rose again. I believe in this Man who is I am Who Am.
@mattlewis66 Atheists don't assert that the universe is purposeless, just that there is no logical pathway to assuming that the universe has an (ultimate) purpose. It is rather more satisfying to view the universe as having lots of purposes based on reason. I've got news for you; tears ARE another manifestation of particles interacting with one another, NOT "just." YOU ARE MADE OF PARTICLES! Love is made of atoms, and it is no wonder why the dogmatically religious are so clueless about it.
@chedillychedilly1 Ok so you are an agnostic (not an atheist) who acts like there is purpose in the world and life has meaning but goes around at every opportunity bashing people who really think there is purpose and meaning in life.
@mattlewis66 What are you talking about? Agnosticism and nosticism go to KNOWLEDGE; atheism and theism go to BELIEF, they are not mutually exlusive. I am agnostic with regards to the KNOWLEDGE of God, but I am an atheist in regards to BELIEF in God. I don't "act" like there is purpose and I don't "bash" people who "really" think there "is" purpose,(whatever the hell that means). Re-read the first sentence of my last post. "Ultimate" is the key word here.
@mattlewis66 "Or maybe I am being too narrow-minded."
Or possibly ignorant to how humans interact? I can't speak for you but I have empathy, respect and emotional connections to people, as such I grieve when they die.
@hawklord2001 Go for it dude. It's all illusion. You really don't have a choice about whether to grieve or not or to have an emotional connection. It's all preordained from eternity by virtue of physical laws and their operation on small particles of which you are just an accidental collection that will soon fade away.
@mattlewis66 "It's all preordained from eternity by virtue of physical laws and their operation on small particles of which you are just an accidental collection that will soon fade away."
As opposed to being preordained by Who Now? God I think it is?
"people who really think there is purpose and meaning in life."
So what's your purpose and how did you come to be aware of it?
@mattlewis66 "You know, they say one thing, like there is no purpose in life.."
OOhhh purpose! I will freely admit that if there is some supernatural cosmic "purpose" I don't know what mine is. But I DO KNOW that I won't be told by anyone else what it is.
Some think their purpose in life is to be the sycophant, to genuflect and grovel in a sadomasochist relationship with a deity.
Talk about a paradox, You're supposed to love someone you fear.
« How one atheist can grieve for another is one of those atheistic paradoxes »
Actually, it's the christian paradox.
After all, everything that happens to somebody during life is, in the christian view, insignificant compared to the eternity that follows, according to them.
We atheists, we just like people, and for us, life is all there is. That's why atheists can care and grieve about people, and christians can't.
@truexonx People like mattlew can only be happy when being ignorant and ridiculing others, being a hypocrite really since hes doing what he said we shouldnt do.
Even worse, his people, christians, push law to affect us, but we dont push law to stop churches from preaching or being built, to stop people from praying in public. At worst we stop the state from sanctioning/pushing it.
Hes in our face, then complains about us speaking in public.
@wiibot15 reduced to name calling due to no valid opinion? your not alone. frustrated atheists always end up there when backed into a corner of their own self selfish nonsense.+++
@waltermh111 what should i "back myself" into a corner of stupid reasoning, believing in absolutely NOTHING with no basis at all? myth and backwards excuses and illogic like an atheist? no thanx! +++
Let's see, you want to be the champions of Abortion, Sodomy and Assisted Suicide? Oh what joy!
40 years ago this same kind of loud-mouthed lefty was saying "if 2 people love each other, why should the have to get married? why can't they just live together?!" People talk like this when they just float from one trend to the next.
The idea that "Secular is clean and good, Religious is stupid, dirty and deadly" is absurd. The Fed Gov is nothing a HUGE extortion racket that squanders our money by the hundreds of billions on CRAP!
i know that this isnt what its all about, but is it too much to ask for just slightly better production value? i love these videos and the message, but the audio is horrible and the image quality isnt much better, all thats needed is a mid level prosumer camera, and a shotgun mic from a local rental place and it would improve the experience of watching these videos tremendously
Do you know that Jesus mostly preached love and harmony? Do you know that Muhammad commanded Muslims to give charity, honor orphans, obey their mothers? No. You listen to Dawkins (a guys who made millions, from books, lectures, and articles for preaching atheism).
For the death of DeMyreon Lindley (the three year old boy left in the van for 10 hours) Tchnavian Dailey, the van's driver, was convicted of criminally negligent homicide and sentenced to six months in jail and two years' probation. Mary Grove & Avis Betts (who pleaded guilty to manslaughter for the death of Amiyah White) were sentenced to 2 years probation. Most amazing of all is that a mother (Rebecca Lynn Orange) got five years in prison for exactly the same crime in Alabama.
@DoctorWong1979 Wasting your breath mate.. Well.. Typing time I should say haha. Trying to have a rational discussion with them is pointless for 99.99% of the people you meet on YouTube.
@iceblude informative of what? how to ignore run from and ridicule The Almighty? nothing new. satan has been at it forever. his time is short now so he needs other willing participants in the anti-GOD campaign. Passing it off as some sort of half baked knowledge. i dig the classical music. makes the lie more believable. LMAO!+++
all i need to know about the smugness of atheists is summed up by the fact that they are all laughing that a young child dies in the care of a neglectful christian family. Yeh, real funny....assholes.
I am an atheist but I feel that your focus on children dying due to parental neglect is immoral.
The issue is parental neglect and not why they did it. This movie lacks the realism which us atheists know but is more on emotion and political points.
Sure it happened but it does not help the argument.
How about this as a song: "Life is All Atoms" or "Love is Just Chemicals" that sounds about right for an atheist band. Or maybe "Natural Selection Boogie."
These Atheist conferences must be real inspiring and hopeful affairs. You know, after you discussing how most of the world is deluded and how there is no purpose in the universe or in life it really gets you feeling great about yourself. It's a wonder there aren't a whole bunch of cool songs by atheists about their world view. All those dum Christians with all their songs, hymns, chants -- they are so retarded.
While all these things are good ideas and worthy causes, I can't help thinking that an Atheist movement really should be about promoting Atheism. All the anecdotes are fine but in fact, any moderate Theist could support the same reforms, which IMHO makes them kind of outside of the Atheist remit.
While I'm sure it is good to have some rallying points on which to focus, I wish it had been ones to do with Atheism itself, rather than No Special Treatment For Theists.
Atheists like this word delusion. It is fitting in one respect that they use it so often. According to them, much of life is delusion. There cannot be choice or free will in their material world, only the feeling or appearance of choice. Without choice, much of life is an illusion.
« There cannot be choice or free will in their material world »
That depends on how you define free will. If you define free will as "doing something completely irrespective of the choices you see yourself confronted with" then no, I don't think it exists. What use would such completely random behaviour have anyway? Choices are always made with an eye on requirements, and not randomly.
@XGralgrathor An atheistic materialist believes that all events happen because of the interaction of particles according to certain physical laws. He explains the appearance of choice as really a predetermined action based on the interaction between the perceiving thing and the thing perceived. Free will implies that you have the power to choose among options without reference to or reliance upon the material interactions between the chooser and the objects of choice.
@XGralgrathor I think the available options are (i) all events happen of necessity by operation of physical laws, (ii) all events happen by accident and physical laws are illusions or (iii) events happen because of physical laws, chance and purpose.
I would take randomness over physics because it is the only way anything new could ever happen. But that is not a true distinction. You leave out purpose.
We're not talking events. We're talking decisions. And decisions are always made to achieve some purpose given particular pre-conditions. In other words: decisions are not random, they depend on a pre-set goal and pre-set conditions.
@XGralgrathor Ok, so given a pre-set goal, say to eat, and pre-set conditions, say three options of food all the same cost and I can only buy one, is the selection of one type of food to eat determined by physical laws solely or does the actor have free will?
« is the selection of one type of food to eat determined by physical laws solely »
Reduce: one chooses a particular type of food because of personal preference. What determines personal preference? Among other things, previous experience with similar foods, and (inherited) biological characteristics help determine preference. Either that, or you're back to saying that the choice of food is simply random. Are you arguing that human actions are essentially random?
@MrGralgrathor No, I think alternative (3) is right. There is some element of determinism, there is some chance and there is choice. Choice is what gives us newness and creativity in life. It's what leads me to pick the food I have never eaten before over the one I know.
Hope you get all this stuff sorted out, good luck!
villevn 1 week ago
ah man this guys good
Brushles83 1 week ago
Religion is a psychological disorder and should be treated as such. Political leaders in the US like Santorum, Bachman, Romney, all republicans really, is akin to allowing mental patients to run the country. Obama, may not be AS afflicted as his GOP counterparts, but his thought processes are also retarded by his "faith".
blackestjake 2 weeks ago
@blackestjake A psychological disorder? For real? Don't you think that's a bit extreme? Religion is the effect of our thirst for Transcendence in conjunction with our very deep ability of imagination. It's not a disorder; it is something that is bound to be created by a species like ourselves. We should be thankful that we have the ability to imagine and believe in something Higher. We shouldn't be thankful of the fact that we're inclined to apply these beliefs to politics and etc.
983215ljhlkadbspig6y 2 days ago
@983215ljhlkadbspig6y "A psychological disorder? Don't you think that's a bit extreme?" No. "Religion is the effect of our thirst for Transcendence in conjunction with our very deep ability of imagination." Imagination is great. But a 'thirst for Transcendence'? What's 'Transcendence', specifically? Depending on your answer, and whether there's any such thing, a 'thirst' for it may be anything from a need that doesn't require belief in fairy tales to, indeed, a disorder.
jeffdee 1 day ago
That is, I don't believe atheists should try to establish or organize themselves as another kind of religion with their own ethical codes, traditions, etc. We mainly just combat theism and help explain things to people who chose to deconvert--if any one of us so chose to. Insofar as organizing anything political--I mean other than attacking theism, I don't see anything new we'd bring to the table that hasn't already been offered via general democratic principles.
utubesux222 2 weeks ago
@utubesux222 I think you're right. If atheism does anything except reject religious beliefs it ceases to be atheism and becomes an organised movement of ' atheists who believe in human rights etc...' Then it should probably just be called human rights group.
SirMonkeyoftheBrook 2 weeks ago
@SirMonkeyoftheBrook And I do think there's a demand for it even without getting really involved in politics. Just getting the message out for the newly deconverted (which there will be a lot more of in the future) would probably suffice along with continuing the great debate and publishing. I think that should seperate "atheists" as a political movement. Anything else we could just pass off to a preexisting political group on the subject, which any atheist is free to support if they please.
utubesux222 2 weeks ago
@utubesux222 Whatever happens as long as any movement is guided by truth and justice.
Peace
SirMonkeyoftheBrook 2 weeks ago
This does and does not bother me a great deal. Most atheists, forgive me if I'm wrong here, this was a long time ago, (a survey of around 10,000 or so atheists) are fairly left-leaning. I don't see a huge point to any sort of organization among atheists unless it is to keep giving religions a reality check and offer support as a kind of alternative to people who want to deconvert from their indoctrinated religion.
utubesux222 2 weeks ago
Sign me up.
tomnanD3 3 weeks ago
I believe that religion has no monopoly on virtue. You really can be good without God. I also believe that, given the lack of evidence for it, religion has no claim on anyone who isn't interested in it. You really can just tell the missionaries to bug off.
rasmur1 3 weeks ago
You will find its also useful to point out where healthcare and medication comes from. Does not come from the bible, faith or especially god.
AoshiAtheist 4 weeks ago
Atheism is only a reject of the belief.
SirMonkeyoftheBrook 1 month ago
@SirMonkeyoftheBrook
No, Atheism is the rejection of intellectual complacency.
mclovinakapascal 3 weeks ago
@mclovinakapascal Well i suppose so if you can prove the contrary but you can't.
SirMonkeyoftheBrook 3 weeks ago
(Continued)
Thirdly, we have to show people that they don't have to go to church to hang out with their friends. Atheists have to make Atheistic counterparts to the songs, schools, boys/girls clubs, get-together places, ect. that religious people have. Also, they have to be BETTER than religious ones, that provides an incentive to NOT BREAK ATHEIST LAW.
All of this can be condensed into a 4-5 page pamphlet entitled "Atheism"
I hope someone actually has the patience to read this.
Thank you.
darthvaderyoda 1 month ago in playlist More videos from richarddawkinsdotnet
(Continued)
Also in it, a set of ethical laws. These laws in no way have to be dogmatic. They can be written by not only the "counsel" of New Atheist I have described but my unanimous call from the Atheists themselves. We also have to form a punishment system.
You break the law, you are excluded from the Atheist community, you can no longer say you are an Atheist, or partake in any of the Atheist community affairs(which I will get into soon enough)... (Continued)
darthvaderyoda 1 month ago in playlist More videos from richarddawkinsdotnet
I personally think that the only way to make Atheism a true movement is it must act like a movement.
I propose that we gather all the top New Atheists and they devise a book, a manifesto, a pamphlet that can be passed along in the subway to unsuspecting people about Atheism.
In it, the definition of Atheism. If you are a "moderate" atheist, you aren't an atheist. The definition must be redefined to be someone who is more involved in the atheist community.... (Continued)
darthvaderyoda 1 month ago in playlist More videos from richarddawkinsdotnet
I'd say people everywhere in the world should abandon patriotism and nationalism. The nation state is a fairly recent construct, it only serves to divide the people of the world. Why support "our troops" that are on a murderous big business serving mission?
Yes, we should extend our solidarity to the poor sods who are drafted from the slums of america into the army to do the bosses' budding, dying and being maimed in the process. But no support to the institution that causes all the misery!
DeHeld8 1 month ago
I like seeing that secularism is gearing up in the US, but it that puts me off is that he keeps going on about "patriotism". It's striking that this notion of patriotism is so prevelent in the US, even in secular circles. Patriotism to me is much like religion. Just becouse you are born in a certian country does not mean your allegiance must lie with that place. Just as little as when you are born to christian parents you are a christian child and your allegiance lies with christianity.
DeHeld8 1 month ago 2
These are some very good ideas.
stringthrory81 1 month ago
If atheists ever expect to grow or establish political activism they must "bite the bullet" and have a set of principles that they do espouse. It is naturally devisive and dogmatic, but it must be done. Because simply saying you're atheist tells the average person nothing except you don't believe in the supernatural. How 'bout economics? justice? foreign relations? etc.?
MikieDaC 1 month ago
I will support this group, but I am a pagan. Will my faith be shown equal tolerance?
DarkArtistKaiser 1 month ago
"we can take command of the moral higher ground"... hmmm... looks religious.
simptube 1 month ago
This is a important video. Please thumps up & favorite.
RedlineMMA 1 month ago
Comment removed
getpwnd89 1 month ago
Comment removed
getpwnd89 1 month ago
Comment removed
getpwnd89 1 month ago
you know atheism is religion guys...
getpwnd89 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@getpwnd89 "you know atheism is religion guys..."
In Bizzaro world?
hawklord2001 1 month ago
@getpwnd89 Absurd! Atheism is a religion in the same way that clear is a color.
TonyZXT 1 month ago
@TonyZXT ok good u understand me.
getpwnd89 1 month ago
@TonyZXT Atheism is a religion the way bald is a hair style,,,lol,,
ZukefliJohan 1 month ago
@getpwnd89 atheists do not worship anything, do not read holy scripts etc.
saying atheism is a religion is like saying "off" is a tv channel.
LimesNorrlandicus 1 month ago 5
This has been flagged as spam show
@LimesNorrlandicus Religion is something you believe in and take time to devote yourself with. One can say money is religion cause we devote our whole life revolving around financial currency. So yes Atheism is part of religion in a different category cause you guys focus on something you believe in which is you don't believe in god and his rules.
getpwnd89 1 month ago
@LimesNorrlandicus 57 channels (And nothin' on) Bruce Sprinsteen.
Well now home entertainment was my baby's wish
So I hopped into town for a satellite dish
I tied it to the top of my Japanese car
I came home and I pointed it out into the stars
A message came back from the great beyond
There's fifty-seven channels and nothin' on
Smithpolly 1 month ago
@getpwnd89 uhh no its not thats retarted wat the hell makes you think that
MegaMarkerr 1 month ago
@getpwnd89 Yeah, just like not playing football is a sport.
personEks 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
People that listen to Dawkins are as blind as people that listen to Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity. Its about saying whatever people want to hear and making a lot of money doing so.
martinjackson909 1 month ago
Heck yeah Eastern Kentucky University!!!! It was a very comforting thing to see the packed house give a standing ovation. I was very surprised honestly, having lived in KY all my life I had the impression that someone with my mindset was a rarity. But having all of those people roaring and the religious problem was a comforting thing to witness.
gfunk576 1 month ago 2
Good speech. It's nice to see secular humanism/atheism, etc. framed in political rhetoric.
seleroan 1 month ago
I liked the speech and I'm inspired to join up with other atheists and talk about these things. The real power of religion is the social strength of mandatory lectures and social time.
I now want to go into churches and try to spread a positive view of secular thought. Here in Oklahoma the number of closeted atheists is usually really high and I want to show them that it is safe to be themselves.
unkledanbot 1 month ago
What a bunch of tripe...Separation of Church and State? Bet you would stand up for Sharia Law in the courts without blinking an eye.
The essence of immorality is the tendency to make an exception of myself. ~Jane Addams
snailbait7 1 month ago
Excellent stuff. I would add that education should be top priority - and not just to remove religious bias. It is a panacea; give all Americans a good science education and teach them to think critically and skeptically and religion will eventually die out on its own.
chernobility 1 month ago
every goddamn religion should be banned !
MoSxyxnr24 1 month ago
@MoSxyxnr24 banned? no. Ignored? yes.
bstratm 1 month ago 3
@bstratm yeah if everyone would ignore it it would be fine with me :)
MoSxyxnr24 1 month ago
cant wait till religion is spaced out of our reality and is nothing more then just a bad hollywood film...
Steamsteam 1 month ago 65
@Steamsteam yeah well maybe you can learn the correct use of "then" in the meantime
ImTheRealRudeboy 1 month ago
@Steamsteam - It is a bad hollywood movie.
Rocketryman 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
TheMrgoku1985 1 month ago
Comment removed
TheMrgoku1985 1 month ago
Dawkin's groupies like to repeat this argument that they just believe in one less god after rejecting Zeus, Thor, Isis, Shiva, etc. They imply an equivalency between the one God of Aristotle and Aquinas but in fact there is none. It's like they say "well you know Thales and Heraclitus thought water and fire were the ultimate principles of the universe therefore quantum physics is a bunch of hooey." Just because other folks got it wrong doesn't mean that others did. God is the uncaused cause.
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66
This uncased cause is special pleading. You want a special exception for your personal god the god of the bible to be specific.
A good scientist is agnostic to the unknown so he or she can actually find a working hypothesis.
TheMrgoku1985 1 month ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@TheMrgoku1985 God gives evidence of His existence every day. And that existence is Love.
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 If that is your evidence, then I'm sorry but we do not believe you.
Rebellion57 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 Love, and 'things happening/existing', is not really evidence. Allah says he gives love too. Buddhists say love is a life redeeming itself and heading out of the mortal coil, the Jewish god can claim that love is his doing too. Rationalism can claim that love is a powerful emotion that human consciousnesses experience.
Apologies for the rudeness others have shown you here, but it is youtube. The nastier elements of any movement seem to rear their heads here.
Pomguo 1 month ago
@Pomguo Well thanks for that Pomguo but you need not apologize for others. I do think that noble love is evidence. I don't think material evolutionists can really explain why most people think it is a noble thing for a strong man to save a weak man and die in the process. The whole idea of laying down one's life for another really does not compute in the world of Dawkins where natural selection explains all.
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 I think there're multiple evolutionary benefits for such responses - you see various societal animals exhibiting the same behaviour. But it doesn't make it any less beautiful or noble. Atheism does not see the world as ugly or boring or random, quite the contrary.
Pomguo 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 You so readily address evolution yet you do not attempt to understand the full weight of what you are saying. Natural selection as you use it seems to be 'survival of the fittest' or Darwinism.
See, natural selection is at play on all levels of biology. The perpetuation of a species is the perpetuation of dna. From that perspective it matters less which individual survives and more that one survived.
Sacrifice for others is empathy and sympathy overcoming egoism.
unkledanbot 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 just because this idea of noble love as you call it isnt proven doesnt mean that makes god real and for that fact alot of these things as we call em come from social backgrounds everyone calls hitler the most evil man in history but he was raised to hate jewish people its very well known that he was catholic n at that time the catholics in n around germany hated jewish people
MegaMarkerr 1 month ago
@mattlewis66
Special pleading again. Emotions serve as a survival instinct all animals have them.
TheMrgoku1985 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 And how then do you explain the uncaused cause? And why not believe in Zeus or Thor or the Pink Unicorns, and who are you to say they are NOT the uncaused cause? If there is an uncaused cause then by definition there can be no evidence for it. Christian Scientists pray to god for a cure, myself, I prefer to go to a trained medical doctor. Have fun with your imaginary friend.
Dancinstan1 1 month ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@Dancinstan1 There is nothing imaginary about Christ who was crucified under Pontius Pilate almost 2000 years ago. There is nothing imaginary about the blood and wounds, nor about his perfect compassion. Do you think the one thief was looking at an illusion when he was invited into Paradise?
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 Fuck off retard. No one here wants to hear about your bullshit delusion.
grayziehobbes 1 month ago
@grayziehobbes Don't be a dick asshole
Haydenballvideos 1 month ago
@Haydenballvideos Go fuck yourself, cunt.
grayziehobbes 1 month ago
@grayziehobbes Seems I hit a nerve there grayzieguy? Or do you just trash everyone who believes?
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 Hardly. I do whatever I want, as do you.
grayziehobbes 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 I will always make fun of silly beliefs and I hope grayzieguy does the same. I don't want to insult you, as I was once a christian, but I want you to think. I want you to use the brain that billions of years of evolution has given you. With that brain you can realize just how silly religion and faith really are.
MisterCommentCritic 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 "There is nothing imaginary about Christ who was crucified under Pontius Pilate almost 2000 years ago."
That does nothing to prove his divinity.
hawklord2001 1 month ago 51
@hawklord2001 ooooh, snap!
sTevefor3 1 month ago
@hawklord2001 It annoys me, too, when religious people use their unsubstantiated assumptions as, somehow, infallible fact. You can't negotiate with people like that.
shade1978x 3 weeks ago in playlist More videos from richarddawkinsdotnet
@hawklord2001 Even then, no evidence of that event anyway.
0835SEBO 3 days ago
@0835SEBO
Agreed. Earliest know copy of the Gospel of mark which is considered the first account of Jesus ends @ ch 16:8. It would suggest that the resurrection story was added later to beef up the story.
hawklord2001 3 days ago
@mattlewis66 I'm curious as to how you, or anyone for that matter, might know what someone else saw? Is it because you read it in the bible? And you know the bible is true because it says it is? Surely you must realize that this does not constitute proof of any kind. There is no valid historical evidence for the existence of this christ, and certainly not for any "miracles". Believe or not as you choose, but don't expect others to follow blindly along any longer.
Dancinstan1 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 "God is the uncaused cause"
Bold assertion. Proof?
hawklord2001 1 month ago
Extra respect to Sean Faircloth for knowing what the word 'troll' means.
NoDerpingAllowed 1 month ago
How one atheist can grieve for another is one of those atheistic paradoxes. You know, they say one thing, like there is no purpose in life, and yet weep in tears over the death of a fat drunk as if his life had meaning. Or maybe I am being too narrow-minded. Those tears are just another manifestation of particles interacting with each other according to eternal laws of physics are only an illusion of feeling. Right all you Dawkin lovers?
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 Physics doesn't make it an illusion. It makes it real.
rosenerik 1 month ago
@rosenerik Right, and that reality is, according to you atheistics, that choice, beauty, love, feeling, ideas, free will, art, poetry is all really just a function of physical laws on subatomic particles.
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 Again, not "just" a function of physical laws on subatomic particles. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" you know.
rosenerik 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 you're such a dick - spitting on a man's grave is so christian of you... We mourn exactly BECAUSE we know that this is the only life we get and that we'll never get to see the departed again. Why do YOU cry and mourn the dead, if you believe in an afterlife? And after all, we do you even fear death? Why don't you rejoice when your family and friends die? They're supposed to be in a better place, aren't they? Unless (and because) you're a fucking hypocrit. Or a liar. Your pick, dick
SolDeSaBelle 1 month ago 3
@SolDeSaBelle You certainly mistake me. I believe that life has meaning and that we make our choices here and now in preparation for the afterlife. It's you atheists and agnostics that go around bashing people who think like I do but then act as if life has meaning but getting all sad-faced, drunk and pathetically melodramatic when some accidental collection of particles who was called Hitchens disintegrates.
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 We both think life has meaning, but for different reasons.
You because a god made it so, and us because this is the only life we have to live.
waltermh111 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 You do seem sad. Does it worry you that future generations will not fall for religious indoctrination. A little bitter even when you get called on your bullshit?
Benobo1t 1 month ago
@Benobo1t No, not at all. Christ was sad but never despaired. The martyrs felt pain but knew the joy of dying for Christ even when the entire pagan world of Rome beat them down into bloody pulp. How can I possibly ever feel sad in any lasting way knowing that He and they went before me?
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 You should realize, when you flag a comment as spam, it does'nt go away. It only makes people interested in what was being censored, and end up looking at the hidden post anyway. In your case, they see delusional fail is apparent.
Benobo1t 1 month ago 5
@Benobo1t I did not flag anything as spam. In fact, I replied to a reply by XGraltholor which was spammed by someone else. The only posts I spam are those which are disgusting in the hopes they will eventually be removed because of too many negs.
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 you should be sad .. believing in a 2000 year old fairy tail
TheTazzietiger 1 month ago
@TheTazzietiger You spelled tale wrong. And no, I believe in a Man who walked this earth, preached love and forgiveness, raised the dead, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, died, and then rose again. I believe in this Man who is I am Who Am.
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 Atheists don't assert that the universe is purposeless, just that there is no logical pathway to assuming that the universe has an (ultimate) purpose. It is rather more satisfying to view the universe as having lots of purposes based on reason. I've got news for you; tears ARE another manifestation of particles interacting with one another, NOT "just." YOU ARE MADE OF PARTICLES! Love is made of atoms, and it is no wonder why the dogmatically religious are so clueless about it.
chedillychedilly1 1 month ago
@chedillychedilly1 Ok so you are an agnostic (not an atheist) who acts like there is purpose in the world and life has meaning but goes around at every opportunity bashing people who really think there is purpose and meaning in life.
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 What are you talking about? Agnosticism and nosticism go to KNOWLEDGE; atheism and theism go to BELIEF, they are not mutually exlusive. I am agnostic with regards to the KNOWLEDGE of God, but I am an atheist in regards to BELIEF in God. I don't "act" like there is purpose and I don't "bash" people who "really" think there "is" purpose,(whatever the hell that means). Re-read the first sentence of my last post. "Ultimate" is the key word here.
chedillychedilly1 4 weeks ago
@mattlewis66 "Or maybe I am being too narrow-minded."
Or possibly ignorant to how humans interact? I can't speak for you but I have empathy, respect and emotional connections to people, as such I grieve when they die.
hawklord2001 1 month ago
@hawklord2001 Go for it dude. It's all illusion. You really don't have a choice about whether to grieve or not or to have an emotional connection. It's all preordained from eternity by virtue of physical laws and their operation on small particles of which you are just an accidental collection that will soon fade away.
mattlewis66 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mattlewis66 "It's all preordained from eternity by virtue of physical laws and their operation on small particles of which you are just an accidental collection that will soon fade away."
As opposed to being preordained by Who Now? God I think it is?
"people who really think there is purpose and meaning in life."
So what's your purpose and how did you come to be aware of it?
hawklord2001 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mattlewis66 "You know, they say one thing, like there is no purpose in life.."
OOhhh purpose! I will freely admit that if there is some supernatural cosmic "purpose" I don't know what mine is. But I DO KNOW that I won't be told by anyone else what it is.
Some think their purpose in life is to be the sycophant, to genuflect and grovel in a sadomasochist relationship with a deity.
Talk about a paradox, You're supposed to love someone you fear.
hawklord2001 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mattlewis66
« How one atheist can grieve for another is one of those atheistic paradoxes »
Actually, it's the christian paradox.
After all, everything that happens to somebody during life is, in the christian view, insignificant compared to the eternity that follows, according to them.
We atheists, we just like people, and for us, life is all there is. That's why atheists can care and grieve about people, and christians can't.
XGralgrathor 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 You should read a biology book on the subject, very good explanation to answer your question.
There are good books for laymen.
You dont have to keep being ignorant if you dont want to be.
waltermh111 1 month ago
I feel sad for atheists. They unwittingly reject the very thing that will make them happy -- perfect love and truth, i.e., God.
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 Atheists make you sad? really? Ignorance makes me sad.
Benobo1t 1 month ago 3
@Benobo1t Yeah, ignorant atheists are a really sad situation thought that is something of a redundant phrase.
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66 I am an atheist. I am completely and perfectly happy without perfect love and truth. What am I doing wrong?
truexonx 1 month ago
@truexonx People like mattlew can only be happy when being ignorant and ridiculing others, being a hypocrite really since hes doing what he said we shouldnt do.
Even worse, his people, christians, push law to affect us, but we dont push law to stop churches from preaching or being built, to stop people from praying in public. At worst we stop the state from sanctioning/pushing it.
Hes in our face, then complains about us speaking in public.
waltermh111 1 month ago 2
@hevy99
wiibot15 1 month ago
Don't feed the troll. He knows he's a fucking idiot, he's doing it on purpose.
wiibot15 1 month ago
@wiibot15 reduced to name calling due to no valid opinion? your not alone. frustrated atheists always end up there when backed into a corner of their own self selfish nonsense.+++
hevy99 1 month ago
@hevy99 Spam Marked.
wiibot15 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@hevy99 "reduced to name calling due to no valid opinion?"
Here are some quotes from your previous posts.
Not about "religion" you DOLT!+++ Step #1, Remove head from rectum.
Faith cant be disproved by science you moron.
boy are atheists delusional!
since stubborn blind atheists
atheists are such perfect pompous asses.
pot meet kettle.
hawklord2001 1 month ago
@hevy99 and yet here you are insulting, just as mattlew, just admit your no better and have nothing but imagination to back you up.
waltermh111 1 month ago
@waltermh111 what should i "back myself" into a corner of stupid reasoning, believing in absolutely NOTHING with no basis at all? myth and backwards excuses and illogic like an atheist? no thanx! +++
hevy99 1 month ago
What an invigorating speaker.
alosel2 1 month ago
@alosel2 oh the classical music blinded you too? LMFAO!+++
hevy99 1 month ago
Let's see, you want to be the champions of Abortion, Sodomy and Assisted Suicide? Oh what joy!
40 years ago this same kind of loud-mouthed lefty was saying "if 2 people love each other, why should the have to get married? why can't they just live together?!" People talk like this when they just float from one trend to the next.
bramachari 1 month ago
Comment removed
bramachari 1 month ago
The idea that "Secular is clean and good, Religious is stupid, dirty and deadly" is absurd. The Fed Gov is nothing a HUGE extortion racket that squanders our money by the hundreds of billions on CRAP!
Google "Citizens Against Government Waste"
bramachari 1 month ago
Statistics prove that the religious are less intelligent. It also proves it the death of that poor little girl.
ddowson21 1 month ago
Comment removed
Jake0Miller 1 month ago
omg... 22:19 "reason & science must effect policy"
I hear people snickering, and it's probably due to the atheists that can spell in the audience :P
jakethewoz 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jakethewoz
ef-fect
Verb: Cause (something) to happen; bring about
Jake0Miller 1 month ago
@jakethewoz absolutely! for every effect, THERE IS A CAUSE! :)+++
hevy99 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
richard dawkings is a homophobic evolutionist who calls our universe a queer
DebunkingEvolution 1 month ago
Comment removed
DebunkingEvolution 1 month ago
You want an evidence-based secular citizenry?
Get inside the heads of the young, just like the enemies of reason do.
Highlyskeptical 1 month ago
@Highlyskeptical ahhh, the luciferian mindset! Fear doubt and hate. VERY GOOD!
hevy99 1 month ago
i know that this isnt what its all about, but is it too much to ask for just slightly better production value? i love these videos and the message, but the audio is horrible and the image quality isnt much better, all thats needed is a mid level prosumer camera, and a shotgun mic from a local rental place and it would improve the experience of watching these videos tremendously
burn435353 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Do you know that Jesus mostly preached love and harmony? Do you know that Muhammad commanded Muslims to give charity, honor orphans, obey their mothers? No. You listen to Dawkins (a guys who made millions, from books, lectures, and articles for preaching atheism).
martinjackson909 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Why does Dawkins talk and write about religion more than he talks and writes about science? The money of course.
martinjackson909 1 month ago
For the death of DeMyreon Lindley (the three year old boy left in the van for 10 hours) Tchnavian Dailey, the van's driver, was convicted of criminally negligent homicide and sentenced to six months in jail and two years' probation. Mary Grove & Avis Betts (who pleaded guilty to manslaughter for the death of Amiyah White) were sentenced to 2 years probation. Most amazing of all is that a mother (Rebecca Lynn Orange) got five years in prison for exactly the same crime in Alabama.
ananiasacts 1 month ago
Great. Now let's all vote Ron Paul so we can have some logical, evidence based and ethical politics as well.
waksibra 1 month ago
Wow, America sounds like a Christian version of Saudi Arabia.
I thought the west was supposed to be fighting religious extremism and all of this bullshit.
harrifer3000 1 month ago
I have hope for mankind after watching videos like this.
On the other hand, it's the oposite after hearing people stating their religious beliefs.
A life without religion is a life without restrictions. Science is the future, embrace it.
RichyDYupYup 1 month ago 7
@RichyDYupYup
All scientists will tell you the universe is governed by laws,
and after the atheist physicalist scientist dies they are
completely spirit in God's eternal spirit realm, totally
unprepared for and subject to eternal Heaven or eternal Hell;
Not much of a future; why again should I embrace it?
theetrue 1 month ago
@theetrue sorry but I am not here to debate anything about existance of fairies and unicorns
RichyDYupYup 1 month ago 2
@RichyDYupYup
Me neither RichyDYupYup;
Have a nice fairies and unicorns day RichyDYupYup.
theetrue 1 month ago
@theetrue I'll leave that for you baby
RichyDYupYup 1 month ago
@RichyDYupYup
Wrong again; When you going to get it right?
theetrue 1 month ago
if the religious can ever agree which religion is correct, we might have a discussion, until then they are all fairytales,
1empathy 1 month ago
Holy crap. I thought I ran into one of those 'going deep' videos. :D
ytfmichaelxu 1 month ago
Religious ppl here, what do u care what atheists think? If we are going to hell, then what do u care?
DoctorWong1979 1 month ago
@DoctorWong1979 Wasting your breath mate.. Well.. Typing time I should say haha. Trying to have a rational discussion with them is pointless for 99.99% of the people you meet on YouTube.
seanjosephhayes 1 month ago 2
@DoctorWong1979 Don't you know? They want to save our souls...
Hellsconsort 1 month ago
Wow This was a good speech and very informative.
iceblude 1 month ago
@iceblude informative of what? how to ignore run from and ridicule The Almighty? nothing new. satan has been at it forever. his time is short now so he needs other willing participants in the anti-GOD campaign. Passing it off as some sort of half baked knowledge. i dig the classical music. makes the lie more believable. LMAO!+++
hevy99 1 month ago
all i need to know about the smugness of atheists is summed up by the fact that they are all laughing that a young child dies in the care of a neglectful christian family. Yeh, real funny....assholes.
hekuball 1 month ago
@hekuball That has to be one of the stupidest comments I have read, just about anywhere. Go away troll.
twoolf 1 month ago 2
Haha why are there so many religious folks watching this? Lol
DoctorWong1979 1 month ago
Some faith in humanity has been restored
yosoypatrick 1 month ago
USANAP.ORG
MrChristopher245 1 month ago
I am an atheist but I feel that your focus on children dying due to parental neglect is immoral.
The issue is parental neglect and not why they did it. This movie lacks the realism which us atheists know but is more on emotion and political points.
Sure it happened but it does not help the argument.
Cheers
nicksynnz 1 month ago
How about this as a song: "Life is All Atoms" or "Love is Just Chemicals" that sounds about right for an atheist band. Or maybe "Natural Selection Boogie."
mattlewis66 1 month ago
These Atheist conferences must be real inspiring and hopeful affairs. You know, after you discussing how most of the world is deluded and how there is no purpose in the universe or in life it really gets you feeling great about yourself. It's a wonder there aren't a whole bunch of cool songs by atheists about their world view. All those dum Christians with all their songs, hymns, chants -- they are so retarded.
mattlewis66 1 month ago
While all these things are good ideas and worthy causes, I can't help thinking that an Atheist movement really should be about promoting Atheism. All the anecdotes are fine but in fact, any moderate Theist could support the same reforms, which IMHO makes them kind of outside of the Atheist remit.
While I'm sure it is good to have some rallying points on which to focus, I wish it had been ones to do with Atheism itself, rather than No Special Treatment For Theists.
chrisofnottingham 1 month ago
Atheists like this word delusion. It is fitting in one respect that they use it so often. According to them, much of life is delusion. There cannot be choice or free will in their material world, only the feeling or appearance of choice. Without choice, much of life is an illusion.
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66
« There cannot be choice or free will in their material world »
That depends on how you define free will. If you define free will as "doing something completely irrespective of the choices you see yourself confronted with" then no, I don't think it exists. What use would such completely random behaviour have anyway? Choices are always made with an eye on requirements, and not randomly.
XGralgrathor 1 month ago
@XGralgrathor An atheistic materialist believes that all events happen because of the interaction of particles according to certain physical laws. He explains the appearance of choice as really a predetermined action based on the interaction between the perceiving thing and the thing perceived. Free will implies that you have the power to choose among options without reference to or reliance upon the material interactions between the chooser and the objects of choice.
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66
« An atheistic materialist believes that all events happen because of the interaction of particles according to certain physical laws »
And your alternative is that all things happen randomly?
I'll take physics over randomness any day, boy.
XGralgrathor 1 month ago
@XGralgrathor I think the available options are (i) all events happen of necessity by operation of physical laws, (ii) all events happen by accident and physical laws are illusions or (iii) events happen because of physical laws, chance and purpose.
I would take randomness over physics because it is the only way anything new could ever happen. But that is not a true distinction. You leave out purpose.
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66
We're not talking events. We're talking decisions. And decisions are always made to achieve some purpose given particular pre-conditions. In other words: decisions are not random, they depend on a pre-set goal and pre-set conditions.
XGralgrathor 1 month ago
@XGralgrathor Ok, so given a pre-set goal, say to eat, and pre-set conditions, say three options of food all the same cost and I can only buy one, is the selection of one type of food to eat determined by physical laws solely or does the actor have free will?
mattlewis66 1 month ago
@mattlewis66
« is the selection of one type of food to eat determined by physical laws solely »
Reduce: one chooses a particular type of food because of personal preference. What determines personal preference? Among other things, previous experience with similar foods, and (inherited) biological characteristics help determine preference. Either that, or you're back to saying that the choice of food is simply random. Are you arguing that human actions are essentially random?
MrGralgrathor 1 month ago
@MrGralgrathor No, I think alternative (3) is right. There is some element of determinism, there is some chance and there is choice. Choice is what gives us newness and creativity in life. It's what leads me to pick the food I have never eaten before over the one I know.
mattlewis66 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mattlewis66
« There is some element of determinism, there is some chance and there is choice »
Either a choice depends on preconditions, or it is random, or some of both. There is no third alternative.
MrGralgrathor 1 month ago