12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
-Bible Is written in three languages: HEBREW; ARAMAIC; GREEK.
-Writing of the Bible covers a 1500 year time span.
-Bible was written on 3 different continents.
-Bible had at least 40 human authors.
-None of these authors, writing in different languages, over a large span of time, from differing backgrounds and geographical location, disagree on any point and never contradict each other.
-This diversity and unity can only be explained by Divine Revelation
bible menu .>>>>pornography in detail homosexuality incest .mother can cook their sons ,rapist can keep the girl rest of the life .eating own feaces and drinking their piss.pedophile .genocide .vaginity test by bitter water .burning the daughter of priest for adultry .stoning to death for every second reason including honour killing .vagina taste like wine...etc etc >>>>so much for BOOK OF CHRIST/PAUL
Muslims cannot understand the bible as they dont have the Holy Spirit.The bible says
MUSLIMS CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE..
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."1 Cor 2:14
Muslims cannot understand the bible as they dont have the Holy Spirit.The bible says
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."1 Cor 2:14
The Koran teaches that the world is flat. This doctrine is believed by Islamic scholars even today. The Bible revealed that the earth is round in Isaiah 40:22. "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth".
Muhammed had so many women in his bed and yet muslims consider him to be a true prophet of God.Jesus was the only one who was sinless he is the one we ought to follow.
Sad part about all of this is that all this info comes from Christian scholars.....This is exact t reason why so many Christian scholars went atheist or agnostic 'cos of same info found...perfect example is Prof Bart D. Ehrman. he was the top Christian Scholar now does debates against Christians.
You kno what gets me? People will take the scientific theory that Matter/energy cannot be made or destroyed. Meaning it has existed from before anything and will continue to exist forever. Ok. Now those same people find it hard that a GOD cannot be made or destroyed that the GOD has existed from the beginning and will continue to exist? Im scratching my head here.
I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. (A.Einstein)
u Stupid christian are soo empty minded is soo funny how corrupted u guys are.. why are u people saying random garbage about islam cant accept the fact that islam is the religion of truth?? trust me bro u will be saved on the day of judgement convert to islam btw dont reply me with garbage
We have already witness how Islam save that is women lose their rights, cultures are wiped out, freedom of religion, expression, speech and most of all freedom of thoughts are all curtail. Base on that I don't think we can trust Islam for salvation. God is about freedom that is why God gave us free will to become better people and use that free will to expand and beautify this universe.
And as far as women not having right, this is nowhere in the Quran that treats women this way.
Sexism is defintiely in the bible though, which is why many American women convert to Islam, so what is your point. You obvioulsy have not read your bible, nor have you read the Quran to make a dumb comment like this.
Nothing beats reality, the reality is Muslim women are treated as slaves, they have little rights they are force to cover up because they are discriminated. I guess you don't notice Muslim women in Muslim nations are discriminated , right.
Do you have any Quran verses that tell Muslims to treat women like slaves or discriminate against them? You can't find one single verse that tells Muslims to do this; however, in the bible there are many verses that are sexist and say women have no rights; this is why in America women had no rights until the mid 1900's.
Have you not taken history classes? In America women could not vote, have a position of power, earn the same as men etc. And it was influenced bible teachings
I don't need verses, historical facts and current events in Muslim lands are proove enough that women and none Muslims are oppress and treated as second class people. In America they evolve to become a better nation, Muslim nations are 100 -500 years behind.
Chapters and verses. I am not going to just sit and argue with you like I am 9yrs old. Anyone can read our prior comments, especially the last ones I left and clearly see that you have no clue about what you are saying.
Chapters or verses or we are done, plain and simple.
Chapters and verses mean nothing especially if they are base on uncofirm and unreliable sources. That is why Muslims have difficulty becasue their Quran does not confirm with history, current events and most of all with facts.
I guess you really do not know your bible. The bible is inconsitent in history and science,
You really need to take Biblical studies and NT historical studies in college. Those of us who have either end up leaving Christianity. Some become Atheist and some choose Islam. I chose Islam. After you learn how the NT was put together and it's writers being anonymous then Christianity looks pretty unreliable.
Provide proof of what you claim, I wish not to argue with kids.
I know my Bible and history in fact many Muslims and atheist have become Christian after learning the truth. That is why Muslim countries are restricting Muslims from leaving Islam. You chose Islam too bad you made the wrong choice. No argument just facts open your eyes and mind and see the truth.
Tell me the truth, is there freedom and respect in Muslim countries?
Are you mentally challenged? What part of what I said didn't you understand? Since some people are slow, then I will repeat it once more.
Islam is based on teachings of Quran, and you judge the religion by it's book and not the actions of a these political agenda terrorist groups, who in no way practice what the Quran teaches.
If you want to say Islam teaches this then it must be somewhere in the Quran. You have never read the Quran to know.
That is the main problem, because the Quran is very inconsistent and is a plagiarised book of the Holy Bible.
In fact I don't have to reference any verses from the Quran, all the Muslim terrorist have already reference so many verses in the Quran that justify their acts of terrorism that is why Islaimc history is full of violence from the very beginning it is the anti Christ, please understand that especially since you claim to be a well educated senior citizen.
Im now assuming that you are a kid, or you are mentally challenged in some way.
Making generalizations are not proofs or evidence of what you say. I guess you are unaware of corrupt Christian countries such as Mexico and Cuba etc. Am I to generalize and say their actions represent true Christianity. Am I too say David Koresh, Hitler, the crusades etc all represented Christianity. How about the Christian Serbs who murdered hundred of thousands of Muslims and rapped their women?
Many of those you mention did claim they are the true Christian and the difference is that Christian acted and police their own. Who step forward to help the Bosnian Muslims not you not Muslims, us Christian step in, that is what true Christianity is about.
We can all generalize like this. Maybe you need to read about history and see what American and Christian historians say about the violent barbaric history of Christianity and why they walked away from it. Christianity has only been civil for the past 200yrs, but that's only after they spread it with the sword.
Im done discussing this with you, as you shift to generalization after generalization with no citation it proof.
I am not a child, nor do I wish to dialogue with a child.
At the end of the day, it is not us that you should be worry about or trying hard to convert or convince about your Islam but it is the other Muslims the many radicals, extremist and terrorist who seem to be preaching a different Islam base on the same Quran as yours. If you can convince them that your Islam is the true Islam then I will sincerely have faith in your Islam and will give you my ears.
I wish I can get lost but I have to help people like you I know that the truth can be annoying but you should lsiten to your heart if not Christ then open your minds to facts, current events and history. Remember there is a reason why We in the West have open our borders to thousands of Muslim immigrants, refugess and asylum seekers because we care.
I can't get lost because you called me you knock on my doors and I welcome you, Amen.
It is the sickness of learning the truth and I am bless to have and is still learning the whole truth it is too bad that you have already pass your learning stage because the truth can truly set you free and the truth is, Islam is a false religion. Come back to Christ it is never too late, Amen.
Your attitude is a clear example of Muslims, because of their inability to present decent and convincing argument they become aggressively insulting and mentally unstable.
@smartalvy by Jesus teachings this type of teaching is evil ????? WHICH JESUS ??? BIBLE IS MOST VIOLENT HOLY SCRIPTURE even for WOMEN >>>>>>youtube(.)com/watch?v=vbJdoSAe_HA
OR youtube(.)com/watch?v=hG3Jc25bWf4 OR youtube(.)com/watch?v=n4EaQpE_E24 SEEK FOR TRUTH
I guess you are to uneducated to have read about the "Women's Movement." What was all that fuss about again? WOMEN WERE TIRED OF BEING DESCRIMINATED AGAINST AND TREATED AS INFERIOR. THEY WANTED TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE, WORK IN WHATEVER POSITION THEY WANTED, EARN EQUAL TO MEN--WHICH THEY STILL DON'T EVEN NOW, RESPECT.
Get your facts str8, you are not talking to a little kid. I am full of knowledge on whatever you want to discuss.
You are right, women are tired of being discriminated that is why Muslim police are clamping down on them with whips and batons treating them like animals. Thanks to Western help many Muslim women were able to find sunctuary.
Muslim women can't even pray with their husbands and sons inside Mosques, segregation in Muslim are worse than the USA civil rights movement of the 60s and 70s.
You have any knowledge of this kind of sexism in the Quran? No. You are simply repeating what you have heard. You want to play on the politic game and repeat what you have heard about certain countries and how they treat people, which has nothing to do with the Quran teaching. We judge Islam by what the book says and not what people say and do. If it is in the book then you have an argument, but since it isn't then you don't.
Over the years we have all been lied to by many false Religous Leaders and so called prophets. Many things we have been taught are not even in Scripture and millions have swallowed so many lies by these false leaders. If you are a truth seeker please visit the web site which is displayed in our user name and take the time to read some of the articles... You will be very shocked.
Dont forget the issue of doctrine here. I asked which of the christian groups from the time of Jesus had the correct understanding? This is not a question of names, but variations in doctrinal understanding.
True and they are very successful in keeping Christians or other religion out for the moment they are slowly letting the Christian community to shrink quitely by restricting their expansion.
There was only one group it was only after Xtianity was accepted by the Roman empire that other Xtian groups start to surface or separate from each other because of politics and not about Jesus. Just like Islam after Mohammed split into different groups.
Merry Christmas! on the contrary, Christianity flourish in spite the threat of death and persecution Christianity unlike Islam did not wage war against Rome, Judaisn or all those who do not believe, Christianity wasand is the true religion of peace. Amen.
Ok............. this is not what I asked you, but if you want to speak on the subject of Religion and war, I suggest you speak facts. Maybe you have never taken a history class in your life.
Christianity is one of the most violent religions to come on the scene. For the last 2000yrs there is not doubt who holds the violence title; Christianity has only been civil for around the last 200 yrs. Christianity was notorious for killing those who would not accept it.
Facts: Xtianity was founded by true peace, Islam has always been at war since Modammed conquered Mecca. Islam with it's shorter history to Xtianity has more wars and kikkings an estimated 20 million Hindus were killed to convert by Islam conquest of India.
The Colonial Conquests: Estimates for the number of Native Americans slaughtered by the Europeans in North, Central and South America run as high as 20 million within three generations.
The Holocaust: Hitler and the Nazis were Christians who killed over 6 million Jews and around 40 million Innocent people total
I could name more if you want. Christians were notorious for murdering everyone whenever they discovered a new land.
Muslim conquest of India, Constantinopole, Middle East, Iran, South East Asia and Africa have resulted in countless and ethnic cleansing that easily dawrf Xtian atrocities. In China Muslim Xinjiang province, Muslims no longer celebrate Chinese New Year.
Guess who had to take Jews in when Christians kicked them out of Europe? Muslims.
And it's funny how all you Christians have embraced pagan customs like Christmas. Your bible tells you to not join pagan customs whit worship of him. If you say Jesus is God then why do you do the Christmas trees etc. when Jeremiah 10:1-4 says not too?
Guess who wants to destroy Israel and kick out the Jews now, Muslims.
We have our Christmas tree, why do Muslim worship the black stone. Our tree is better than the stone. The pagan sun god has become the Son of God, God has triumph over the sun god.
Ummmm guess how many Jews don't even think Israel should be a state right now. Do you even read the bible or anything? Israel is supposed to be exiled from being a country.because of what they did against God. Even old elderly Jews in Israel who lived there in peace with the Palestinians before the British came and kicked all Palestinians out after the Holocaust says that they wish things were back to before Israel was not a country again.
It is even biblical that they would have forever violence if they tried to establish the land of Israel again, and that is just what is happening.
I guess you are uneducated and don't know that over 7 million Jews live In Iran and have for centuries and they are not being persecuted. If Islam hates Jews then those 7 million Jews should be complaining and dying right? Fact is that them and some Israeli citizens make up a council of Jews against the state of Israel.
Actually, it is your facts that are all distorted you can't even accept that the Quran is plagiarise from the Holy Bible. Islam has no history of it's own it rewrires Bible history to suite their own. Islam claim they are descendant of Ishmael and yet their Quran consist of all Issac's descendants and Jewish prophets. Is Islam that of Ishmael or Isaac? if they are of Isaac then they are Christians. Without the Holy Bible there will be no Islam.
Are we on the Quran or violence? The Quran you know nothing about so we won't even go there. Since you have changed the subject from violence because you know nothing, then our convo is over.
Go argue with someone who doesn't know his information. I am a ex-Christian so there is nothing you can tell me about the bible--I know it from cover to cover. And you definitely can't tell me nothing about the Quran.
I know the history of the Quran and Islam, but I doubt that you do you don't even understand or accept the fact that the Quran was base on the Holy Bible, the re-written or plariagise form of the Holy Bible. People who can not accept truth turn a blind eye and blame others for their problems. It is too bad that you walk away and turn your back to Christ, nonetheless, Christ will always love you and you will always be part of his Kingdom, Amen.
We know the Quran is a confirmation of what was sent before, it even states this in the Quran so what is your point? The Quran tells us that "IF this book was not from God then surely we would find many inconsistencies in it." There are no errors or contradictions is it and that still stands to this day.
There are many errors and contradiction in the Quran and it's history the only reason you say there is none is because you refuse to open your mind and eyes to the truth.
The Quran has many things that the books before doesn't have. No other revelation given before contains the science facts that have only been discovered in our last century; the Quran spoke of these things 1400 yrs before.
Until you find a contradiction in my book then you have nothing to say about it. You have no knowledge of the Quran, you are a kid repeating what you have heard.
So you moved from violence to Quran being plagiarized?
There are many contradiction in the Quran and when scholars try to point them out, Muslims get up set just like you are up set now. That is why Islam is so restrictive to their followers that they send out morality police to invade the privacy of individuals.
Is it in the Quran for women to be treated like slaves? Like I said, this is not a Quran teaching, it is a corruption of greed and wrong doing. The Quran has no such teachings.
Do until you find me a chapter or verse in the Quran that supports any of those things then you have no point.
And I would like for you to provide me some of these so called contradictions in the Quran, Chapter and verse.
Claims require proof. Provide it or stop commenting to me.
"They don't need to memorize it because as soon as it was reveal to them they immidiately wrote it down and absorb it and understand it without blindly memorizing what they can't understand"
Did they share the protestant view, the catholic view, the JW view, what view understand?
And those who believe in Allah and His messengers and do not make a distinction between any of them-- Allah will grant them their rewards; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
I ask you Dantankun, can you name 1-just one muslim group who has a different viewpoint about the position of Jesus, or Muhammed? You can not. ALL the Muslims share the same doctrinal standard. But as you point out, there are POLITICAL differences out the, not doctrinal disputes. And this is the issue we are debating here. You claim Jesus is God, some claim he is not. And all them testify to being a christian. So who has the right viewpoint?
Sunnis and Shiite both claim to be the legitimate inheritor of Mohammed's kingdom. Both have different view on the mahdi. Both do not believe Jesus is the Son of God. All Xtians believe and accept Jesus is the Son of God.
What kingdom of Muhammed are you talking about? What is that? Muhammed has no kingdom, he is a fellow servant, just like Jesus, and tried to the best of his abilities to spread the truth.
How about you which Islam sect you belong to? Again which is the true Islam, sunni, shia or Taliban? it is clear sunni and shia both claim to be the true Islam therefore one has to be fake.
As I stated, we all have the true Islam, there are no theologic differences there. There is no God but Allah, and Muhammed is his last and final messenger. You are clearly making an attempt to avoid the issue we are debating here. That is who amongst you christians have the right understanding of Jesus? You see, no matter what name some might choose to be referred with, we all share the exact same doctrinal conviction.
Who have the correct view with you Islam the Shiites, Sunnis, or Taliban?
All Christians agree on one thing Jesus is the Son of God He is the Messiah. Islam fight over who will inherit the earthly wealth and power of Mohammed.
Aside from over whelming evidences of the legitimacy of Jesus with the recent discoveries of The Dead Sea Scrolls another is the fact that Xtian nations have for the pass centuries open their borders to Muslim immigrants while Muslim countries have shut their doors to Xtians.
Is anybody here questioning the legitimacy of Jesus? Quran makes mentionng of Jesus and his position. You are really hung up about the practice of so-called muslim nation. What relevance does that have to the doctrine itself? You claim that Jesus is God. We say, no. Are you not aware that these scrolls you talk about, seem to suggest the oppsosite, that Jesus was indeed a simple messenger? And not your God! I am puzzled as to why you would bring this up?
Quran believe Jesus is inferior to Mohammed in spite the fact that Islam agree Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary, has miracles, healing powers and stand for true peace. Islam have been challenging Xtianity especially with Jesus it is clear they need to project Jesus according to their false claim because Jesus is Xtianity without Jesus no Xtianity that is why Islam needs to destroy Jesus image and true story.
Tell me, is it possible for humans to be more forgiving than God? If your answer is no, then why do we have stories about murderers, who have been granted total and unconditional forgivenes, from the insulted family, without having to pay for this mercy?
Why is your God not able to show unconditional love with no boundaries or accountability? Is is not enough for a all powerful God, that we sincerely repent, and strive to not make the same mistake again?
He has, all races are children of God. Respect of the free will Xtians have evolve and have made changes to right their wrongs and repent their sins, Islam continue to teach containment.
All you have to show for too build your case, are documents written by people who did not even meet the one they are writing about. Paul and the gospel wrtiter never met the man from Nazareth.
There are kids at the age of 12, who knows the entire Quran,cover-to-cover. Now imagine the companions of the Prophet, do you think they knew the Quran? Not only do we have the Quran intact, we also have the sayings of the companions, who gives details to what surrounding events took place at the time of revelation.
Memorization is a form of brainwashing or subconcious conditioning. And what was the revelation? Mohammed was force to preach, historical Bible was to be plagirized why didn't Mohammed had his own version? I can accept islam if it has originality but it does not it is the reverse copy of the Bible.
Memorization is a form of brainwashing? Do you hear yourself? You admit to the fact that the gospels were written long after Jesus had left the scene? Why is that we despite this fact, can read words uttered by the lips of Jesus? Because of memorizarition. People had memorized the words. The same words you claim to be the perfect words of God, unaltered. And if they were not memorized, words would be word of man, and not words of God.
Understanding and acceptance with free will is what is needed not blind memorization. Words of God send down to men that is why God became man as Jesus and his apostles and Saints were blessed so that the words and true thought of God can continue.
You seem to be diverting your replies from the actuall questions asked. You claim that the bible is the exact words of God. How is this possible without someone memorizing-or remembering the words. Then it would be words collected from the fragile mind of humans. These words would face the danger of being altered, unless they off course were memorized. You can not escapte this fact.
Due to the fact that the books within your bible are written after the death of Jesus, and by people who did not meet Jesus, requires that someone would have had to remebered his saying and many parables. Would you not agree? If the gospel writers did not ask the people " what did jesus say"......then who told them....???
Mohammed did not met Allah nor did any of his scribes who wrote the Quran they never wrote it down it was later that they decided to write it down. Bible writters immidiately start writting after recieving revelation from the Holy Spirit, the authors were chosen by God that is why their gospels were accurate and HAS CONTINUITY unlike the Quran that jumps from one story to the other
That is not correct. The Quran was written on different fragments, such as i.e the skin of camels etc. You got this confused with the actual compilation of these various fragments. This was done after the Prophet passed away. And as I mentioned, this progress was observed and supervised by one of the companions, who would make sure, that if human error had made it into these verses, they would be removed.
Mohammed pass away and his scribes wrote down what they could remember words of Mohammed not God or Allah because Mohammed did not recieved the Quran from Allah himself it was from an angel who force Mohammed to be the leader. That is why events in the Quran of Biblical history are incompatible with actual historical events.
They don't need to memorize it because as soon as it was reveal to them they immidiately wrote it down and absorb it and understand it without blindly memorizing what they can't understand. In fact the Quran version of Bible history is uncompatible with actual history
So all we have then, is mans understanding and interpretation of the biblical passages, that you christians hold in high esteem, as the unaltered words of God. You don`t see the conflict here?
No conflict the only conflict is the insistance of Islam that Mohammed met Allah he didn't it was an angel a none Xtian angel who forcefully order Mohammed to recite the Quran, it wasn't God or Allah.
What you suggest they "wrote down immidiately" is no longer to be found. What you have now are re-produced sayings, that have been processed through the week mind of men. When will you realize that these words can no longer stand as the direct words of God.
Many of them were apostles of Jesus , Jesus the God, others like Paul were approach personally by God after Jesus resurrected to heaven. Mohammed didn't even met Allah he met an angel an aggressive angel that force him to preach.
Christianity making its way into Europe contains killings-and mass murder, like in Andalucia,where the Muslims and Jews had lived peacefully together for years. Then came the christians with theire "free-will"
Liberated through murder yes. The fact that you may call yourself a free christian today, is because of the "free-will" that slaughtered its way into Europe.
Jesus and his followers hardly murdered anyone it was Jesus and Xtians that were being murdered. Xtians learn to fight back against extremist forces, Europe and the West is free for now.
You reply suddenly had me remembering chapter 9 of the Holy Quran, where Allah tell us the exact same thing. Fight those who fight you. BUT, Allah sets a condition:
If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
Throughout history Muslims would have already violated that doctrine because they were the aggressors and Islamizing by force regions that they have conqeured. Today Israel has cease to fight and offer peace why are Msulims refusing Israel's offer?
The problem is that condition requires everyone to convert to Islam or face discrimination that is why Xtian community in Muslim countries are shrinking.
Mohammed was scare because he felt the angel was killing him and it would be his in laws that would encourage him and protect him not the angel and eventually when his in laws are no longer available it would be the Medinas that would protect him by force of arms.
Your theory would have those who only recieved marks gospel fall into doctrinal error. Are this people now doomed? Because only reading mark, would not indicate that Jesus, the fellow servant (by his very own lips) is God in flesh.
It would not be because those people will soon also received the entire Bible that would inlcude all the gospels. And this is the greatest miracle after Jesus, the power of the Holy Spirit to bring all men to God not be force but through free will and enlightenment.
In the beginning I would be too because I am not sure if it is good or bad angel. But the angel of the Bible would calm his subject and garantee them their safety. Angel of Mohammed was forceful and was very threatening that is why he was afraid.
Two things that scared him the angel and the Meccans. After receiving encouragement and garantee protection from his in laws he start preaching his followers would be persecuted by the Meccans but not him because he is protected by his in laws.
Muhammed did not seem to be so afraid when his followers were pursecuted and had to leave Mecca. He stayed behind, making sure everyone got out safe. And by this time the so-called relatives were not there fotrany sort of protection. Muhammed was now the protector.
Here is the big difference Jesus sacrificed Himself and died for His followers after Jesus resurrected to Heaven His followers return the favor by sacrificing and dying for him.
Mohammed on the other hand let his followers sacrifice and died for him since day one.
A muslim will not accept Muhammed being poitrated as anything other than a simple Prophet of God. Muhammed stated numerous times to his followers not to exaggerate in theire devotion for the Prophet. He once said :
""Do not utter such exaggerated words of praise for me as the Christians do for the Prophet Jesus, the son of Mary. I am nothing more than a servant of Allah and His Apostle. So, call me only that." (Bukhari and Muslim)
Well, his followers have exactly done the oppossite they have made Mohammed a god, no one is allowed to see him and have a picture of him, they build mosques in his name.
The problem is that they have made Modammed more godly than ever especially protecting his image with or without Mohammed's portrait he is already A or equivalent to a god to them.
It might seem so for a non-muslim. I would dare to say there is not a single Muslim on this planet who would think of the Prophet as anything, but a Prophet. If there is one thing you know, without a shred of a doubt after reading the Quran, is that Allah shares His Glory and Majesty with abosutely No-One !
Clear and easily understood. Then why do people worship Jesus ?
At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a FELLOW SERVANT with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
Because Jesus is God only God can be both man and God. God love His people truly that he became man to share and feel their sorrows, pain and sufferings that is a true God. Jesus as man he wants to remind all that worship God as God not as man.
Now is Jesus is God ,it would indicate that it is Jesus who has the old Prophets killing young children , slaughtering and burning down villiages and taking young girls as a war booty?
That is, if you claim that the God of the old testament is Jesus, or is that perhaps another God?
Muslims are heavily brainwash that is why they run a very dictatorial and control environment no free will. My understanding of the Quran is that it is a plagiarised book of the Holy Bible.
I agree that is call FREE WILL but it offends me to see Muslim scholars such as Shabir exploiting the Bible for his own benefit.
He is not being honest to himself, if the Bible prove to be true will he convert? no not matter what, the Bible is already set in his mind that it is not true.
Then does it offend you when Christian scholars are exploiting the Quran? Perhaps you as well have a pre-set mind concerning the validity of the Quran? What would happen to you if you just let the man from Nazareth be the humble fellow servant, as he himself says he is?
Yes just like Shabir who are not sincere in honest debate. Mine is only for the truth and so far I see no historical or scientific evidences that support the Quran. Thousand of years ago I can understand why people believe but now with availability of science and education there is no excuse but I guess IT IS FREE WILL.
The burdon of proof would be upon you. It is you who have a super natural claim, saying that Jesus is God. With the availability of modern science I too must wonder why you hesitate to question your own conviction. I did that, and had no choice but to leave the Christian doctrine, and come to face the ansolute truth of Islam.
There will be no excuses when the day of questioning is upon us.
I would advice you to find the courage to ask questions, and dont be afraid what friends and family might think. They will not be able to intercede on your behalf.
What is super natural is Mohammed, Jesus proof Himself with his miracles, healing powers, fullfillment of the thousand yr old scriptures. Mohammed none of those only the plagiarization of the Holy Bible and using force of war to sell himself and his religion.
Muslims have always refuse to accept all the evidences presented their argument is always "because Mohammed said so" for the illiterate that is okay but for the educated ones that is not enough.
You see no scientific evidences that supports the Quran? Quran is no science book, but I encourage you, if you dare, to look into the scientific facts stated in the Quran. Read the verses for yourself, afterwards take a look at what many western non-muslim scientists conclude. Just Google it, if you are sincere.
It is easy to interprete the Quran or the Holy Bible with sceince but not the other way around.The Bible has been archeologically proven to be consistent with historical events if that is so since the Quran has a different version of the Bible would mean it is not consistant.
The Bible is very consistant with the Bible, however after noticing the inconsistency within the gospels,with the development from Mark to especially John, and further more see how the apostar Paul has corrupted the simple teachings of Jesus, we can easily understand why God had to reveal himself again, this time through the Prophet Muhammed.
Jesus (pbuh) in his lifetime has never eaten pork. Are you, Christians, a true follower of Christ?
jinggojonah 3 months ago
1 John 5:7
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1
Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
PastorExtremeSermon 4 months ago
-Bible Is written in three languages: HEBREW; ARAMAIC; GREEK.
-Writing of the Bible covers a 1500 year time span.
-Bible was written on 3 different continents.
-Bible had at least 40 human authors.
-None of these authors, writing in different languages, over a large span of time, from differing backgrounds and geographical location, disagree on any point and never contradict each other.
-This diversity and unity can only be explained by Divine Revelation
PastorExtremeSermon 4 months ago
-Isa 40:22 shows that word of God knows the earth is SPHERICAL
-Earth is suspended in nothing, Job 26:7
-Stars are innumerable, Gen 15:5
-The Hydrologic Cycle, Job 36:27-28, Eccl 1:6-7
Nature of Health, Sanitation, and sickness, Lev 12-14
PastorExtremeSermon 4 months ago
The names the Bible uses to describe itself point to a divine origin.
- 1 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:23 "Word of God"
- Acts 7:38 "Living Words"
- Romans 3:2 "Very words of God"
- Romans 1:12 "Holy Scripture"
PastorExtremeSermon 4 months ago
bible menu .>>>>pornography in detail homosexuality incest .mother can cook their sons ,rapist can keep the girl rest of the life .eating own feaces and drinking their piss.pedophile .genocide .vaginity test by bitter water .burning the daughter of priest for adultry .stoning to death for every second reason including honour killing .vagina taste like wine...etc etc >>>>so much for BOOK OF CHRIST/PAUL
sicker57 6 months ago
MORE THE PEOPLE READ BIBLE FASTER THEY WILL BECOME ATHEIST... sorry to say bible can not be defended
sicker57 6 months ago
wwwdotExposingChristianitydotcom
GahdeMalprigi1488x 7 months ago
the "identity of Shabir Ali" LOL
he is a martian..no maybe he has too heads..no maybe he is a ghost???
Christians are a joke trying to stop a debate because they know they have no answers.
glower125 9 months ago
LOL
christianity is an insult to human intelligence.
the belief that someone died for you sounds like a bronze age religion. reminds me of hindu women burning themselves with their dead husbands.
christianity is truly stupid.
glower125 9 months ago
Muslims cannot understand the bible as they dont have the Holy Spirit.The bible says
MUSLIMS CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE..
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."1 Cor 2:14
quranevil 9 months ago
@quranevil
Then how are Muslims supposed to believe in Christianity?
AlHasashinBattousai 9 months ago
@AlHasashinBattousai - they dont they believe in Jesus
utubevideniskey 5 months ago
@quranevil Lol nobody can understand the Bible because its full of errors. Such a joke of a text.
itsmrfz1 8 months ago
Muslims cannot understand the bible as they dont have the Holy Spirit.The bible says
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."1 Cor 2:14
quranevil 9 months ago
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I was once a Muslim but now I have come to Jesus!! Hallelujah!
Islam is not the true path that leads to heaven.I was deceived for many years until Jesus opened my eyes to see the truth!
quranevil 9 months ago
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...I was once a Muslim but now I have come to Jesus!! Hallelujah!
Islam is not the true path that leads to heaven.I was deceived for many years until Jesus opened my eyes to see the truth!
quranevil 9 months ago
Take a deep look at shabir and you can see satan...
quranevil 9 months ago
@quranevil and that's supposed to be a good way to look at others as a Christians? Were you not supposed to love your enemy?
trainhard3 5 months ago
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The Koran teaches that the world is flat. This doctrine is believed by Islamic scholars even today. The Bible revealed that the earth is round in Isaiah 40:22. "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth".
quranevil 9 months ago
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Prophet Muhammad was a great rold model for muslims!He had 9 Wives When the Rule Says 4 Only!
muhammedquran 10 months ago
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Muhammed had so many women in his bed and yet muslims consider him to be a true prophet of God.Jesus was the only one who was sinless he is the one we ought to follow.
muhammedquran 10 months ago
what was the problam with this ignorant man in start..
amirzubairmughal 11 months ago
Sad part about all of this is that all this info comes from Christian scholars.....This is exact t reason why so many Christian scholars went atheist or agnostic 'cos of same info found...perfect example is Prof Bart D. Ehrman. he was the top Christian Scholar now does debates against Christians.
StuntWorkz 1 year ago
You kno what gets me? People will take the scientific theory that Matter/energy cannot be made or destroyed. Meaning it has existed from before anything and will continue to exist forever. Ok. Now those same people find it hard that a GOD cannot be made or destroyed that the GOD has existed from the beginning and will continue to exist? Im scratching my head here.
vmprophet 1 year ago
Albert Einstein, was one of the most brilliant minds in the history of mankind and here's what he had to say about Islam! cont:
99minerkc 1 year ago
I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. (A.Einstein)
99minerkc 1 year ago
So, if your of FEEBLE mind, go ahead and wrap yourself in the religious security blanket of your invisible god)
99minerkc 1 year ago
@99minerkc the problem is u have no idea where einstein is now! If only ye knew!
chicagotail 1 year ago
u Stupid christian are soo empty minded is soo funny how corrupted u guys are.. why are u people saying random garbage about islam cant accept the fact that islam is the religion of truth?? trust me bro u will be saved on the day of judgement convert to islam btw dont reply me with garbage
zejineji 2 years ago
We have already witness how Islam save that is women lose their rights, cultures are wiped out, freedom of religion, expression, speech and most of all freedom of thoughts are all curtail. Base on that I don't think we can trust Islam for salvation. God is about freedom that is why God gave us free will to become better people and use that free will to expand and beautify this universe.
dantankun 2 years ago
@dantankun
And as far as women not having right, this is nowhere in the Quran that treats women this way.
Sexism is defintiely in the bible though, which is why many American women convert to Islam, so what is your point. You obvioulsy have not read your bible, nor have you read the Quran to make a dumb comment like this.
Bible Sexism examples:
Genesis 3:16, 21:7-10
1Cor 11:3-16
Ephesians 5:22-23
Colossians 3:18
1Tim 2:11-12
There are more but I stop there.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
Nothing beats reality, the reality is Muslim women are treated as slaves, they have little rights they are force to cover up because they are discriminated. I guess you don't notice Muslim women in Muslim nations are discriminated , right.
dantankun 2 years ago
Do you have any Quran verses that tell Muslims to treat women like slaves or discriminate against them? You can't find one single verse that tells Muslims to do this; however, in the bible there are many verses that are sexist and say women have no rights; this is why in America women had no rights until the mid 1900's.
Have you not taken history classes? In America women could not vote, have a position of power, earn the same as men etc. And it was influenced bible teachings
get educated.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
I don't need verses, historical facts and current events in Muslim lands are proove enough that women and none Muslims are oppress and treated as second class people. In America they evolve to become a better nation, Muslim nations are 100 -500 years behind.
I know my history unfortunately you don't.
dantankun 2 years ago
Dantankun"
Chapters and verses. I am not going to just sit and argue with you like I am 9yrs old. Anyone can read our prior comments, especially the last ones I left and clearly see that you have no clue about what you are saying.
Chapters or verses or we are done, plain and simple.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
Chapters and verses mean nothing especially if they are base on uncofirm and unreliable sources. That is why Muslims have difficulty becasue their Quran does not confirm with history, current events and most of all with facts.
dantankun 2 years ago
dantankun"
You claim that Islam is about violence, and discriminating against women.
Produce your proof that the Quran teaches this.
Notice how every time you change subject because you have no knowledge of what you are talking about.
I provided proof from your own bible when I made a claim against you. Adults have proof to back their claim.
Chapters and verses, or stop sending me comments.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
The proof of Islam violence are every where just go to all Muslim lands and if you can not see it then you are truly blind.
dantankun 2 years ago
dantankun"
I guess you really do not know your bible. The bible is inconsitent in history and science,
You really need to take Biblical studies and NT historical studies in college. Those of us who have either end up leaving Christianity. Some become Atheist and some choose Islam. I chose Islam. After you learn how the NT was put together and it's writers being anonymous then Christianity looks pretty unreliable.
Provide proof of what you claim, I wish not to argue with kids.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
I know my Bible and history in fact many Muslims and atheist have become Christian after learning the truth. That is why Muslim countries are restricting Muslims from leaving Islam. You chose Islam too bad you made the wrong choice. No argument just facts open your eyes and mind and see the truth.
Tell me the truth, is there freedom and respect in Muslim countries?
dantankun 2 years ago
danktankan"
Are you mentally challenged? What part of what I said didn't you understand? Since some people are slow, then I will repeat it once more.
Islam is based on teachings of Quran, and you judge the religion by it's book and not the actions of a these political agenda terrorist groups, who in no way practice what the Quran teaches.
If you want to say Islam teaches this then it must be somewhere in the Quran. You have never read the Quran to know.
Chapters and verses, or get lost.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
That is the main problem, because the Quran is very inconsistent and is a plagiarised book of the Holy Bible.
In fact I don't have to reference any verses from the Quran, all the Muslim terrorist have already reference so many verses in the Quran that justify their acts of terrorism that is why Islaimc history is full of violence from the very beginning it is the anti Christ, please understand that especially since you claim to be a well educated senior citizen.
dantankun 2 years ago
dantankun"
Im now assuming that you are a kid, or you are mentally challenged in some way.
Making generalizations are not proofs or evidence of what you say. I guess you are unaware of corrupt Christian countries such as Mexico and Cuba etc. Am I to generalize and say their actions represent true Christianity. Am I too say David Koresh, Hitler, the crusades etc all represented Christianity. How about the Christian Serbs who murdered hundred of thousands of Muslims and rapped their women?
jdnmlm 2 years ago
Many of those you mention did claim they are the true Christian and the difference is that Christian acted and police their own. Who step forward to help the Bosnian Muslims not you not Muslims, us Christian step in, that is what true Christianity is about.
dantankun 2 years ago
dantankun"
We can all generalize like this. Maybe you need to read about history and see what American and Christian historians say about the violent barbaric history of Christianity and why they walked away from it. Christianity has only been civil for the past 200yrs, but that's only after they spread it with the sword.
Im done discussing this with you, as you shift to generalization after generalization with no citation it proof.
I am not a child, nor do I wish to dialogue with a child.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
Provide citation and Chapter and verses to back what you say, or we are done.
I should not have talked to you for this long. It is like talking with a teenager.
Grow up.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
At the end of the day, it is not us that you should be worry about or trying hard to convert or convince about your Islam but it is the other Muslims the many radicals, extremist and terrorist who seem to be preaching a different Islam base on the same Quran as yours. If you can convince them that your Islam is the true Islam then I will sincerely have faith in your Islam and will give you my ears.
dantankun 2 years ago
dantankun"
Get lost kid, we are done. Get it through your head.
Stop sending me comments.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
Being a grumpy old man will not get you anywhere, no wonder you have such a hard time understanding history, facts and current events.
It is too bad you left Christianity because only Christ can truly save you and cure your grmpyness, Amen.
dantankun 2 years ago
danktanktun"
Get lost kid, and stop sending me comments.
Now you are just annoying
jdnmlm 2 years ago
I wish I can get lost but I have to help people like you I know that the truth can be annoying but you should lsiten to your heart if not Christ then open your minds to facts, current events and history. Remember there is a reason why We in the West have open our borders to thousands of Muslim immigrants, refugess and asylum seekers because we care.
I can't get lost because you called me you knock on my doors and I welcome you, Amen.
dantankun 2 years ago
dantankun'
you have a sickness kid
jdnmlm 2 years ago
It is the sickness of learning the truth and I am bless to have and is still learning the whole truth it is too bad that you have already pass your learning stage because the truth can truly set you free and the truth is, Islam is a false religion. Come back to Christ it is never too late, Amen.
dantankun 2 years ago
Your attitude is a clear example of Muslims, because of their inability to present decent and convincing argument they become aggressively insulting and mentally unstable.
dantankun 2 years ago
@jdnmlm
If slave disobeys his master the master beats slave. This is exactly same thing Quran advices to man. If woman disobeys beat her.
Quran 4:34
And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them.
Also don't forget that by Jesus teachings this type of teaching is evil because Jesus said that strike on cheek is evil.
Matthew 5:39
But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
smartalvy 11 months ago
Comment removed
sicker57 6 months ago
@smartalvy by Jesus teachings this type of teaching is evil ????? WHICH JESUS ??? BIBLE IS MOST VIOLENT HOLY SCRIPTURE even for WOMEN >>>>>>youtube(.)com/watch?v=vbJdoSAe_HA
OR youtube(.)com/watch?v=hG3Jc25bWf4 OR youtube(.)com/watch?v=n4EaQpE_E24 SEEK FOR TRUTH
sicker57 6 months ago
@sicker57
Here is great example of trinity in nature
red color+green color+blue color =WHITE color
Father + Son + Holy Spirit = One God
smartalvy 3 months ago
@smartalvy add 4 colours (gods) violet ,indigo, yellow,orange ..you will get white
sicker57 3 months ago
@sicker57 i guess it is a proof that God has no limits.
smartalvy 3 months ago
@dantankun
I guess you are to uneducated to have read about the "Women's Movement." What was all that fuss about again? WOMEN WERE TIRED OF BEING DESCRIMINATED AGAINST AND TREATED AS INFERIOR. THEY WANTED TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE, WORK IN WHATEVER POSITION THEY WANTED, EARN EQUAL TO MEN--WHICH THEY STILL DON'T EVEN NOW, RESPECT.
Get your facts str8, you are not talking to a little kid. I am full of knowledge on whatever you want to discuss.
By being bias, your being dumb.
Get a life
jdnmlm 2 years ago
You are right, women are tired of being discriminated that is why Muslim police are clamping down on them with whips and batons treating them like animals. Thanks to Western help many Muslim women were able to find sunctuary.
Muslim women can't even pray with their husbands and sons inside Mosques, segregation in Muslim are worse than the USA civil rights movement of the 60s and 70s.
dantankun 2 years ago
@dantankun
You have any knowledge of this kind of sexism in the Quran? No. You are simply repeating what you have heard. You want to play on the politic game and repeat what you have heard about certain countries and how they treat people, which has nothing to do with the Quran teaching. We judge Islam by what the book says and not what people say and do. If it is in the book then you have an argument, but since it isn't then you don't.
Again, get a life little kid.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
Why Cant All Christians just admit that islam is a truer and a better religion and just convert
zejineji 2 years ago
There is no doubt Mohammed is a false prophet, Islam is the anti Christ and the Quran is plariagism from the Holy Bible.
Quran has no originality.
It is not too late, Muslims can still be save, Christ is all forgiving, Muslims come and be truly save, Amen.
dantankun 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Over the years we have all been lied to by many false Religous Leaders and so called prophets. Many things we have been taught are not even in Scripture and millions have swallowed so many lies by these false leaders. If you are a truth seeker please visit the web site which is displayed in our user name and take the time to read some of the articles... You will be very shocked.
Blessings as you seek truth
Thanks Ben
2besavedcom 2 years ago
Dont forget the issue of doctrine here. I asked which of the christian groups from the time of Jesus had the correct understanding? This is not a question of names, but variations in doctrinal understanding.
versaflex 2 years ago
True and they are very successful in keeping Christians or other religion out for the moment they are slowly letting the Christian community to shrink quitely by restricting their expansion.
dantankun 2 years ago
There was only one group it was only after Xtianity was accepted by the Roman empire that other Xtian groups start to surface or separate from each other because of politics and not about Jesus. Just like Islam after Mohammed split into different groups.
dantankun 2 years ago
@dantankun
Hello, peace and blessings to you and your family ansd may God bless you all in this new year inshallah.
Are you saying that no other Christian beliefs existed right after Jesus (pbuh) left the scene?
jdnmlm 2 years ago
Merry Christmas! on the contrary, Christianity flourish in spite the threat of death and persecution Christianity unlike Islam did not wage war against Rome, Judaisn or all those who do not believe, Christianity wasand is the true religion of peace. Amen.
dantankun 2 years ago
dantankun"
'
Ok............. this is not what I asked you, but if you want to speak on the subject of Religion and war, I suggest you speak facts. Maybe you have never taken a history class in your life.
Christianity is one of the most violent religions to come on the scene. For the last 2000yrs there is not doubt who holds the violence title; Christianity has only been civil for around the last 200 yrs. Christianity was notorious for killing those who would not accept it.
cont.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
Facts: Xtianity was founded by true peace, Islam has always been at war since Modammed conquered Mecca. Islam with it's shorter history to Xtianity has more wars and kikkings an estimated 20 million Hindus were killed to convert by Islam conquest of India.
The bottom line is Islam is anti Christ.
dantankun 2 years ago
cont
Violent Christian History:
The Crusades: The European armies were saying, as they slaughtered both Christian and Muslim Arabs: Kill them all, God will know his own.
Europe's Reformation and Counter Reformation Era: Two thirds of the Christian population of Europe was slaughtered by Christians
The African slave trade: Estimated to have killed around 200,000,000 Blacks during 400yrs of slavery
cont.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
Islam has their own numbers of slaughtering and slavery in fact up to this date slavery is still being practice especially against women.
dantankun 2 years ago
cont.
The Colonial Conquests: Estimates for the number of Native Americans slaughtered by the Europeans in North, Central and South America run as high as 20 million within three generations.
The Holocaust: Hitler and the Nazis were Christians who killed over 6 million Jews and around 40 million Innocent people total
I could name more if you want. Christians were notorious for murdering everyone whenever they discovered a new land.
Get your facts str8 and educate yourself
jdnmlm 2 years ago
Muslim conquest of India, Constantinopole, Middle East, Iran, South East Asia and Africa have resulted in countless and ethnic cleansing that easily dawrf Xtian atrocities. In China Muslim Xinjiang province, Muslims no longer celebrate Chinese New Year.
dantankun 2 years ago
cont
Guess who had to take Jews in when Christians kicked them out of Europe? Muslims.
And it's funny how all you Christians have embraced pagan customs like Christmas. Your bible tells you to not join pagan customs whit worship of him. If you say Jesus is God then why do you do the Christmas trees etc. when Jeremiah 10:1-4 says not too?
jdnmlm 2 years ago
Guess who wants to destroy Israel and kick out the Jews now, Muslims.
We have our Christmas tree, why do Muslim worship the black stone. Our tree is better than the stone. The pagan sun god has become the Son of God, God has triumph over the sun god.
dantankun 2 years ago
@dantankun
Ummmm guess how many Jews don't even think Israel should be a state right now. Do you even read the bible or anything? Israel is supposed to be exiled from being a country.because of what they did against God. Even old elderly Jews in Israel who lived there in peace with the Palestinians before the British came and kicked all Palestinians out after the Holocaust says that they wish things were back to before Israel was not a country again.
cont.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
@dantankun
cont.
It is even biblical that they would have forever violence if they tried to establish the land of Israel again, and that is just what is happening.
I guess you are uneducated and don't know that over 7 million Jews live In Iran and have for centuries and they are not being persecuted. If Islam hates Jews then those 7 million Jews should be complaining and dying right? Fact is that them and some Israeli citizens make up a council of Jews against the state of Israel.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
@dantankun
Get your facts str8 and then talk. You are nothing but a western media puppet. Read and research instead of watching tv.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
Actually, it is your facts that are all distorted you can't even accept that the Quran is plagiarise from the Holy Bible. Islam has no history of it's own it rewrires Bible history to suite their own. Islam claim they are descendant of Ishmael and yet their Quran consist of all Issac's descendants and Jewish prophets. Is Islam that of Ishmael or Isaac? if they are of Isaac then they are Christians. Without the Holy Bible there will be no Islam.
dantankun 2 years ago
@dantankun
Are we on the Quran or violence? The Quran you know nothing about so we won't even go there. Since you have changed the subject from violence because you know nothing, then our convo is over.
Go argue with someone who doesn't know his information. I am a ex-Christian so there is nothing you can tell me about the bible--I know it from cover to cover. And you definitely can't tell me nothing about the Quran.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
I know the history of the Quran and Islam, but I doubt that you do you don't even understand or accept the fact that the Quran was base on the Holy Bible, the re-written or plariagise form of the Holy Bible. People who can not accept truth turn a blind eye and blame others for their problems. It is too bad that you walk away and turn your back to Christ, nonetheless, Christ will always love you and you will always be part of his Kingdom, Amen.
dantankun 2 years ago
@dantankun
We know the Quran is a confirmation of what was sent before, it even states this in the Quran so what is your point? The Quran tells us that "IF this book was not from God then surely we would find many inconsistencies in it." There are no errors or contradictions is it and that still stands to this day.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
There are many errors and contradiction in the Quran and it's history the only reason you say there is none is because you refuse to open your mind and eyes to the truth.
dantankun 2 years ago
@dantankun
The Quran has many things that the books before doesn't have. No other revelation given before contains the science facts that have only been discovered in our last century; the Quran spoke of these things 1400 yrs before.
Until you find a contradiction in my book then you have nothing to say about it. You have no knowledge of the Quran, you are a kid repeating what you have heard.
So you moved from violence to Quran being plagiarized?
Get a life kid.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
There are many contradiction in the Quran and when scholars try to point them out, Muslims get up set just like you are up set now. That is why Islam is so restrictive to their followers that they send out morality police to invade the privacy of individuals.
dantankun 2 years ago
@dantankun
Is it in the Quran for women to be treated like slaves? Like I said, this is not a Quran teaching, it is a corruption of greed and wrong doing. The Quran has no such teachings.
Do until you find me a chapter or verse in the Quran that supports any of those things then you have no point.
And I would like for you to provide me some of these so called contradictions in the Quran, Chapter and verse.
Claims require proof. Provide it or stop commenting to me.
jdnmlm 2 years ago
You wrote:
"They don't need to memorize it because as soon as it was reveal to them they immidiately wrote it down and absorb it and understand it without blindly memorizing what they can't understand"
Did they share the protestant view, the catholic view, the JW view, what view understand?
versaflex 2 years ago
They all share the same Jesus, Jesus the Son of God the Messiah of all humankind, Jews, gentiles and muslims are all children of God.
How about Islam which sect is the legitimate sect of Mohammed?
dantankun 2 years ago
They all have the right view. There in not a single muslim who will not testify:
La Ilaha il Allah. Muhammadur rasoolulah.
-There is no God But Allah, and Muhammed is his messenger.
Likewise, there is not a single muslim out there who will not testify:
There is no god but Allah, and Isa (jesus) is his messenger.
versaflex 2 years ago
Islam has one Allah just like Xtians have one God, Jesus is the Son of God for Islam Jesus is just a prophet inferior to Mohammed.
dantankun 2 years ago
And those who believe in Allah and His messengers and do not make a distinction between any of them-- Allah will grant them their rewards; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
surah al-nisa (4.150-152)
versaflex 2 years ago
Dont forget the 10 million arabs living in the midle-east, they also have just one Allah.
versaflex 2 years ago
I ask you Dantankun, can you name 1-just one muslim group who has a different viewpoint about the position of Jesus, or Muhammed? You can not. ALL the Muslims share the same doctrinal standard. But as you point out, there are POLITICAL differences out the, not doctrinal disputes. And this is the issue we are debating here. You claim Jesus is God, some claim he is not. And all them testify to being a christian. So who has the right viewpoint?
versaflex 2 years ago
Sunnis and Shiite both claim to be the legitimate inheritor of Mohammed's kingdom. Both have different view on the mahdi. Both do not believe Jesus is the Son of God. All Xtians believe and accept Jesus is the Son of God.
dantankun 2 years ago
What kingdom of Muhammed are you talking about? What is that? Muhammed has no kingdom, he is a fellow servant, just like Jesus, and tried to the best of his abilities to spread the truth.
versaflex 2 years ago
How about you which Islam sect you belong to? Again which is the true Islam, sunni, shia or Taliban? it is clear sunni and shia both claim to be the true Islam therefore one has to be fake.
dantankun 2 years ago
As I stated, we all have the true Islam, there are no theologic differences there. There is no God but Allah, and Muhammed is his last and final messenger. You are clearly making an attempt to avoid the issue we are debating here. That is who amongst you christians have the right understanding of Jesus? You see, no matter what name some might choose to be referred with, we all share the exact same doctrinal conviction.
versaflex 2 years ago
Dantankun, who has the correct view about Jesus, from you christians?
The trinitarians, who claim Jesus has always existed?
The Arians, who states that the son has a beginning, but, was created before the universe.
The Unitarians,who has it that the son was brought into existence in Marys womb?
You christians cant even agree to what Jesus is?
versaflex 2 years ago
Alhamduliah, all this time while you christians have been arguing with eachother about the position of Jesus,peace be upon him,
we, muslims, have been reciting the exactly same words that came more than 1400 years ago. Just like Allah promised us in the Quran:
[We have revealed the Reminder and We have taken upon ourselves the duty of preserving it intact] (Al-Hijr 15:9).
versaflex 2 years ago
Who have the correct view with you Islam the Shiites, Sunnis, or Taliban?
All Christians agree on one thing Jesus is the Son of God He is the Messiah. Islam fight over who will inherit the earthly wealth and power of Mohammed.
dantankun 2 years ago
Aside from over whelming evidences of the legitimacy of Jesus with the recent discoveries of The Dead Sea Scrolls another is the fact that Xtian nations have for the pass centuries open their borders to Muslim immigrants while Muslim countries have shut their doors to Xtians.
dantankun 2 years ago
Is anybody here questioning the legitimacy of Jesus? Quran makes mentionng of Jesus and his position. You are really hung up about the practice of so-called muslim nation. What relevance does that have to the doctrine itself? You claim that Jesus is God. We say, no. Are you not aware that these scrolls you talk about, seem to suggest the oppsosite, that Jesus was indeed a simple messenger? And not your God! I am puzzled as to why you would bring this up?
versaflex 2 years ago
Quran believe Jesus is inferior to Mohammed in spite the fact that Islam agree Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary, has miracles, healing powers and stand for true peace. Islam have been challenging Xtianity especially with Jesus it is clear they need to project Jesus according to their false claim because Jesus is Xtianity without Jesus no Xtianity that is why Islam needs to destroy Jesus image and true story.
dantankun 2 years ago
Quran says Jesus is the Messiah. Who will return when the day of reckoning is close. Is this being inferior?
versaflex 2 years ago
There are others in the Bible who revived the dead, with the permission of God. Go back to OT and read the 1.kings
Adam was born without a father and a mother. How speacial must he be, according to yout logic?
God gives authority to whom He wishes, and just like he gave it, He can easily remove it. He is God. Not those given a temporarely power.
versaflex 2 years ago
Tell me, is it possible for humans to be more forgiving than God? If your answer is no, then why do we have stories about murderers, who have been granted total and unconditional forgivenes, from the insulted family, without having to pay for this mercy?
versaflex 2 years ago
Why is your God not able to show unconditional love with no boundaries or accountability? Is is not enough for a all powerful God, that we sincerely repent, and strive to not make the same mistake again?
versaflex 2 years ago
He has, all races are children of God. Respect of the free will Xtians have evolve and have made changes to right their wrongs and repent their sins, Islam continue to teach containment.
dantankun 2 years ago
All you have to show for too build your case, are documents written by people who did not even meet the one they are writing about. Paul and the gospel wrtiter never met the man from Nazareth.
This is according to your own bible scholars.
versaflex 2 years ago
There are kids at the age of 12, who knows the entire Quran,cover-to-cover. Now imagine the companions of the Prophet, do you think they knew the Quran? Not only do we have the Quran intact, we also have the sayings of the companions, who gives details to what surrounding events took place at the time of revelation.
versaflex 2 years ago
Memorization is a form of brainwashing or subconcious conditioning. And what was the revelation? Mohammed was force to preach, historical Bible was to be plagirized why didn't Mohammed had his own version? I can accept islam if it has originality but it does not it is the reverse copy of the Bible.
dantankun 2 years ago
Memorization is a form of brainwashing? Do you hear yourself? You admit to the fact that the gospels were written long after Jesus had left the scene? Why is that we despite this fact, can read words uttered by the lips of Jesus? Because of memorizarition. People had memorized the words. The same words you claim to be the perfect words of God, unaltered. And if they were not memorized, words would be word of man, and not words of God.
versaflex 2 years ago
Understanding and acceptance with free will is what is needed not blind memorization. Words of God send down to men that is why God became man as Jesus and his apostles and Saints were blessed so that the words and true thought of God can continue.
dantankun 2 years ago
You seem to be diverting your replies from the actuall questions asked. You claim that the bible is the exact words of God. How is this possible without someone memorizing-or remembering the words. Then it would be words collected from the fragile mind of humans. These words would face the danger of being altered, unless they off course were memorized. You can not escapte this fact.
versaflex 2 years ago
Due to the fact that the books within your bible are written after the death of Jesus, and by people who did not meet Jesus, requires that someone would have had to remebered his saying and many parables. Would you not agree? If the gospel writers did not ask the people " what did jesus say"......then who told them....???
versaflex 2 years ago
Mohammed did not met Allah nor did any of his scribes who wrote the Quran they never wrote it down it was later that they decided to write it down. Bible writters immidiately start writting after recieving revelation from the Holy Spirit, the authors were chosen by God that is why their gospels were accurate and HAS CONTINUITY unlike the Quran that jumps from one story to the other
dantankun 2 years ago
That is not correct. The Quran was written on different fragments, such as i.e the skin of camels etc. You got this confused with the actual compilation of these various fragments. This was done after the Prophet passed away. And as I mentioned, this progress was observed and supervised by one of the companions, who would make sure, that if human error had made it into these verses, they would be removed.
versaflex 2 years ago
Mohammed pass away and his scribes wrote down what they could remember words of Mohammed not God or Allah because Mohammed did not recieved the Quran from Allah himself it was from an angel who force Mohammed to be the leader. That is why events in the Quran of Biblical history are incompatible with actual historical events.
dantankun 2 years ago
Dantankun, I ask you to point out 1, just one simple passage in the Quran, that has a error in dealing with historical events.
versaflex 2 years ago
They don't need to memorize it because as soon as it was reveal to them they immidiately wrote it down and absorb it and understand it without blindly memorizing what they can't understand. In fact the Quran version of Bible history is uncompatible with actual history
dantankun 2 years ago
So all we have then, is mans understanding and interpretation of the biblical passages, that you christians hold in high esteem, as the unaltered words of God. You don`t see the conflict here?
versaflex 2 years ago
No conflict the only conflict is the insistance of Islam that Mohammed met Allah he didn't it was an angel a none Xtian angel who forcefully order Mohammed to recite the Quran, it wasn't God or Allah.
dantankun 2 years ago
What is a Christian angel?
Jesus was a Jew. And never did Jesus ask anybody to call themselves "christians"
Who came up with this word?
We both know the answer to this. PAUL.
versaflex 2 years ago
What you suggest they "wrote down immidiately" is no longer to be found. What you have now are re-produced sayings, that have been processed through the week mind of men. When will you realize that these words can no longer stand as the direct words of God.
versaflex 2 years ago
Many of them were apostles of Jesus , Jesus the God, others like Paul were approach personally by God after Jesus resurrected to heaven. Mohammed didn't even met Allah he met an angel an aggressive angel that force him to preach.
dantankun 2 years ago
Christianity making its way into Europe contains killings-and mass murder, like in Andalucia,where the Muslims and Jews had lived peacefully together for years. Then came the christians with theire "free-will"
versaflex 2 years ago
The same can be said with Islam. Andalucia was liberated from the Moors. Xtianity has evovle to become more tolerant while Islam has not.
dantankun 2 years ago
Liberated through murder yes. The fact that you may call yourself a free christian today, is because of the "free-will" that slaughtered its way into Europe.
versaflex 2 years ago
Jesus and his followers hardly murdered anyone it was Jesus and Xtians that were being murdered. Xtians learn to fight back against extremist forces, Europe and the West is free for now.
dantankun 2 years ago
Fight back against extreme forces is okey, yes.
You reply suddenly had me remembering chapter 9 of the Holy Quran, where Allah tell us the exact same thing. Fight those who fight you. BUT, Allah sets a condition:
If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
versaflex 2 years ago
Tell me what christians army displayed such an code of ethics during battle with non-christians?
We are ordered by Allah, if the enemy seize to fight, then incline immidiately towards peace, and ALSO make sure to escort this enemy somewhere safe.
versaflex 2 years ago
Throughout history Muslims would have already violated that doctrine because they were the aggressors and Islamizing by force regions that they have conqeured. Today Israel has cease to fight and offer peace why are Msulims refusing Israel's offer?
dantankun 2 years ago
The problem is that condition requires everyone to convert to Islam or face discrimination that is why Xtian community in Muslim countries are shrinking.
dantankun 2 years ago
There is no compulsion in Islam, and look into history, and see how peacefully Muslims-and no muslims have lived side-by-side for years.
versaflex 2 years ago
Mohammed was scare because he felt the angel was killing him and it would be his in laws that would encourage him and protect him not the angel and eventually when his in laws are no longer available it would be the Medinas that would protect him by force of arms.
dantankun 2 years ago
Your theory would have those who only recieved marks gospel fall into doctrinal error. Are this people now doomed? Because only reading mark, would not indicate that Jesus, the fellow servant (by his very own lips) is God in flesh.
versaflex 2 years ago
It would not be because those people will soon also received the entire Bible that would inlcude all the gospels. And this is the greatest miracle after Jesus, the power of the Holy Spirit to bring all men to God not be force but through free will and enlightenment.
dantankun 2 years ago
Do you know the years in between the different gospels. Those who got mark, would be dead and buried when john came along. Silly argument.
versaflex 2 years ago
Muhammed was scared, absolutely. I wonder what your reaction would be, confronted with the archangel of God Almighty?
versaflex 2 years ago
In the beginning I would be too because I am not sure if it is good or bad angel. But the angel of the Bible would calm his subject and garantee them their safety. Angel of Mohammed was forceful and was very threatening that is why he was afraid.
dantankun 2 years ago
In the first encounter yes, so that Muhammed would appreciate what task was ahead of him.
versaflex 2 years ago
Two things that scared him the angel and the Meccans. After receiving encouragement and garantee protection from his in laws he start preaching his followers would be persecuted by the Meccans but not him because he is protected by his in laws.
dantankun 2 years ago
Muhammed did not seem to be so afraid when his followers were pursecuted and had to leave Mecca. He stayed behind, making sure everyone got out safe. And by this time the so-called relatives were not there fotrany sort of protection. Muhammed was now the protector.
versaflex 2 years ago
Here is the big difference Jesus sacrificed Himself and died for His followers after Jesus resurrected to Heaven His followers return the favor by sacrificing and dying for him.
Mohammed on the other hand let his followers sacrifice and died for him since day one.
dantankun 2 years ago
A muslim will not accept Muhammed being poitrated as anything other than a simple Prophet of God. Muhammed stated numerous times to his followers not to exaggerate in theire devotion for the Prophet. He once said :
""Do not utter such exaggerated words of praise for me as the Christians do for the Prophet Jesus, the son of Mary. I am nothing more than a servant of Allah and His Apostle. So, call me only that." (Bukhari and Muslim)
versaflex 2 years ago
Well, his followers have exactly done the oppossite they have made Mohammed a god, no one is allowed to see him and have a picture of him, they build mosques in his name.
dantankun 2 years ago
Denying any pictures of the Prophet might contribute to mystify him, but the intention is not to make the Prophet "A god"
But I see the conflict.
versaflex 2 years ago
The problem is that they have made Modammed more godly than ever especially protecting his image with or without Mohammed's portrait he is already A or equivalent to a god to them.
dantankun 2 years ago
It might seem so for a non-muslim. I would dare to say there is not a single Muslim on this planet who would think of the Prophet as anything, but a Prophet. If there is one thing you know, without a shred of a doubt after reading the Quran, is that Allah shares His Glory and Majesty with abosutely No-One !
versaflex 2 years ago
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
He begetteth not nor was begotten.
And there is none like unto Him.
Quran 112: 1-4
versaflex 2 years ago
"I am the Lord they God thou shall not have strange god before Me".
dantankun 2 years ago
Clear and easily understood. Then why do people worship Jesus ?
At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a FELLOW SERVANT with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
versaflex 2 years ago
Because Jesus is God only God can be both man and God. God love His people truly that he became man to share and feel their sorrows, pain and sufferings that is a true God. Jesus as man he wants to remind all that worship God as God not as man.
dantankun 2 years ago
Now is Jesus is God ,it would indicate that it is Jesus who has the old Prophets killing young children , slaughtering and burning down villiages and taking young girls as a war booty?
That is, if you claim that the God of the old testament is Jesus, or is that perhaps another God?
versaflex 2 years ago
Muslims are heavily brainwash that is why they run a very dictatorial and control environment no free will. My understanding of the Quran is that it is a plagiarised book of the Holy Bible.
dantankun 2 years ago
I respect your understanding. There is no compulsion in religion, so everyone must go with theire own heart.
versaflex 2 years ago
I agree that is call FREE WILL but it offends me to see Muslim scholars such as Shabir exploiting the Bible for his own benefit.
He is not being honest to himself, if the Bible prove to be true will he convert? no not matter what, the Bible is already set in his mind that it is not true.
dantankun 2 years ago
Have you not looked at the videos with Shabir?
Muslims believe that parts of the Bible are words from God, but with all its contradictions,you see that man has put his own words along with it.
versaflex 2 years ago
Then does it offend you when Christian scholars are exploiting the Quran? Perhaps you as well have a pre-set mind concerning the validity of the Quran? What would happen to you if you just let the man from Nazareth be the humble fellow servant, as he himself says he is?
versaflex 2 years ago
Yes just like Shabir who are not sincere in honest debate. Mine is only for the truth and so far I see no historical or scientific evidences that support the Quran. Thousand of years ago I can understand why people believe but now with availability of science and education there is no excuse but I guess IT IS FREE WILL.
Jesus was that and He was also God.
dantankun 2 years ago
The burdon of proof would be upon you. It is you who have a super natural claim, saying that Jesus is God. With the availability of modern science I too must wonder why you hesitate to question your own conviction. I did that, and had no choice but to leave the Christian doctrine, and come to face the ansolute truth of Islam.
There will be no excuses when the day of questioning is upon us.
versaflex 2 years ago
I would advice you to find the courage to ask questions, and dont be afraid what friends and family might think. They will not be able to intercede on your behalf.
versaflex 2 years ago
What is super natural is Mohammed, Jesus proof Himself with his miracles, healing powers, fullfillment of the thousand yr old scriptures. Mohammed none of those only the plagiarization of the Holy Bible and using force of war to sell himself and his religion.
Muslims have always refuse to accept all the evidences presented their argument is always "because Mohammed said so" for the illiterate that is okay but for the educated ones that is not enough.
dantankun 2 years ago
You see no scientific evidences that supports the Quran? Quran is no science book, but I encourage you, if you dare, to look into the scientific facts stated in the Quran. Read the verses for yourself, afterwards take a look at what many western non-muslim scientists conclude. Just Google it, if you are sincere.
versaflex 2 years ago
It is easy to interprete the Quran or the Holy Bible with sceince but not the other way around.The Bible has been archeologically proven to be consistent with historical events if that is so since the Quran has a different version of the Bible would mean it is not consistant.
dantankun 2 years ago
The Bible is very consistant with the Bible, however after noticing the inconsistency within the gospels,with the development from Mark to especially John, and further more see how the apostar Paul has corrupted the simple teachings of Jesus, we can easily understand why God had to reveal himself again, this time through the Prophet Muhammed.
versaflex 2 years ago
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:
"This is from God,"
versaflex 2 years ago