let's look at it this way. unlimited power. able to do anything. able to lift an unliftable rock? yes. why? he can do anything. he can make square circles. logic and physics don't apply to God. our feeble minds can't comprehend his power anyways. so give it up.
another problem is that there is no such thing as a stone god cannot lift, so the question itself is nonsensical. it is like saying "can god create a stone so heavy that the jets win the super bowl?"
you could argue that he could simultaneously create a stone he cannot lift and be able to lift it. yes, this leads to a contradiction, but it doesnt matter: being omnipotent means you can do anything, and making a contradiction work falls under the category of "anything."
I hear the replies about things he cannot do because its not in his character. The problem is describing him as omnipotent. If there is anything he cannot do, for whatever reasons, he cannot be described as omnipotent. Omnipotence itself is a characteristic that cannot make sense.
So God has infinite power, and the stone has infinite weight. The reason this is a paradox is that it would never exist in reality-it violates the laws of physics. In theory though, pitting God against the stone when neither can yield leaves only one possible answer. The stone is rendered weightless by God's infinite power canceling out rthe stone's infinite weight.
If God created a separate universe where all that existed was a rock, it would be the most massive object, and thus it would be heavy, and also it would be un-liftable because there would be nothing to lift it from. Regardless, I do not believe that a god exists.
What dumb video. Can god create a stone so heavy he can't lift it? He put Jupiter into orbit and suns 100 times as large as ours. What a DUMB video!!!!
The Holy Trinity - Father (God) Son (Jesus) and the Holy spirit.
God the Father would create the stone, then give it to his son Jesus. Jesus would try to lift it, but since he is limited to human abilities, except for miracles, he would not be able to lift it.
First, I would like to say the conclusion is valid; it follows logically from the premises. But, the premises are problematic. God, by definition, is timeless and immaterial. But the problem is framed within space and time. So what the paradox does it relegates God to our plane of existence and turns him into a human with omnipotence (Superman if you will). This, of course, is not God. So what the stone paradox does is not disprove God but disprove an omnipotent human being.
I used to find this argument persuasive but I don't anymore. Not that I have any reason at all to believe in any deity at all -- I just don't find this particular argument persuasive. Presuming that "all powerful" doesn't include claims to transcend logic -- which would be an absurd claim, then the claim is that God can do anything that is not "logically impossible."
So God, for instance, does not have the power to both simultaneously lie and tell the truth.
(cont'd) So in the same way, all of the variations of these questions amount to the same thing. Can God express his power in two mutually exclusive ways at the same time. Can he both create an impenetrable armor and simultaneously penetrate it. An immovable object and simultaneously move it.
Essentially, the question is -- can God's omnipotence be expressed illogically?
And since those who have characterized it have already stated as a caveat that it cannot -- the answer is no.
(cont'd) That is -- God may lie *or* tell the truth -- but God can't do both at the same time. God may express his limitless power in the form of infinite impenetrability *or* infinite penetrability, but he can't do both *at the same time* -- for the same reason that he can't lie and tell the truth at the same time.
Because they're mutually exclusive and thus to do both would be a logical absurdity.
Yeah religion is poison. The rules appear to exist though. So until we know how to circumvent them we are stuck with these odd paradoxes. Odd thing is, we are the only species that we know of in the entire universe that can manipulate these rules and yet we choose to allow the starvation of children. Maybe God is just a human ideal...like love and truth.
If God is omnipotent, then he can also bend the rules of logic. That means that he could create a stone that is too heavy for him to lift and still lift it.
this logic assumes a universe in which paradoxes can exist. Since nothing can logically exist that is inherently impossible, the question "Can an omnipotent being create a stone he can't lift," is undefined. "Omnipotence" in a universe that has physical limits means the ability to do anything that can be done. If those limits say such a stone cannot exist, then the inability of God to create a stone too heavy for him to lift does not negate his omnipotence.
Hi everybody this is God. I was tooling through youtube and came across this video. First of all I am not a man so stop calling me a "He. " Secondly I am not omnipotent cause if I was I would surely smite thee. Third I can neither create a rock or lift a rock, I can only create the laws for which a rock can be created or lifted. I am sort of a cosmic congress-person.
@kdarcy Wow... Your the First "Pro-God' person to actually make some fucking sense, but why smite thee for not understanding what You should "Make Clear" to all of us...? and i mean camman, cant u "Create Rules" that don't allow children to starve to death Every Day? Religion is Poison!
This is simple, the initial question is erroneous so there can be no proper answer, If God created everything then that what he created cannot be greater than him in any way. So asking such a question is like asking a computer to find the absolute square of 2
God has no physical strength because he is not a physical being. Also Rocks aren't measured in "liftablility" they are measured in weight. Seeing as God is omnipotent (which seems like the wrong word) he is infinitely strong and therefore able to lift infinite weight.
Before he makes the stone he is omnipotent as he can do ANYTHING!(at that moment) but after he makes the stone he loses his omnipotency as there is SOMETHING he can't do anymore.
No matter what any one does they may not find that "God" exists or does not exist in life but u might as well not waste ur time and just wait till ur body dies ta see if "God" really exists cuz if it is "God" then it exists outside of the physical plane.wont it be fun to find out tho.....whether u rot in the ground or whether u find a so called "God" . death scares people because they are afraid to accept consequences and pray to a "god" because they want to be relieved of all of there sins
Of course that God has created both things because he is omnipetence. God created earth. if he lands on earth and walks on it (like Jesus) he cant lift it just because he is on it. but at the same timeGod created sun so as long as God is every wherehe makes that the sun gravity lift our planet to our current orbit. so both things where do it at the same time. Because he is omnipotent . we humans otherwise are limited to our skills and point of view.
Because of the nature of God's omnipotence: God will not create such a stone under any circumstance. If the hypothetical were to take place then God would have to change the logic which he created in order to perform the contradictory.
Of course,God can make the stone .aaaand He can lift it.He is omnipotent remember?.Those are really silly questions.Omnipotence being derived form the Bible wich is infinite absolute power.He won`t make a stone that he can`t lift because He cannot deny himself,thus He cannot deny his omnipotence.He cannot be omnipotent and not omnipotent at the same time and in the same way.A is not not A
If you are saying that the creature which was God's creation can lift the rock means that God can lift the rock by any means, you are saying the creature IS God therefore we are all God.
According to believers we are a creation of God, and according to you creations of God are God himself, then because humans do evil, so does God.
This is pretty much what you said means, as well as any other believer who says God acts through us, his creations.
the idea of the stone and strength makes it easy for us to understand, but if a stone became so massive, how would you lift it? wouldn't the stones gravity be greater than everything else? it would be like lifting the sun off the earth (if they were on each other) doesnt really make sense but neither does much anything else in most paradox discussions
assuming god's strength is all, or an infinite amount of weight able to be lifted, then no finite stone could be created that he couldn't lift, but since he's all powerful he can create a stone that's weight is infinite, and since the two infinite sets aren't numbers, they cant 'surpass' one another. its simply asking wether a finite number in an infinite set can be created that is greater than his strength (also an infinite set), which is false, however, this stone has infinite weight=possibly?
what a stupid video. You think that omnipotent means super strengh like that of superman. Remember god does not have a physical body, he is not from the material world. He is omnipotent in the spiritual dimension, and only he has the power to alter our universe, by acting in the spitual dimension. Those who object god because of thier angaer to worldly religions, are as blind are those who beleive in those religions.
not saying that this solves either the athiestic or thiestic problems... but your aguement is fallacious.
For, any meaningful word must be meaningful in some sense. omnipotence can be defined in 2 ways.. either "can do anything" which would be an infinite... or "can do anything within the realm of posibility" which would be a finite number. if a god exists it only needs the 2nd kind since we dont have it in our conception of god that it should be able to be not god or be able to kill himself
There are many other things God 'can't' do because it isn't part of His character, such as: stop being God, sin, make mistakes, change His mind, lie, and die. It's not that He 'can't' do these things, they just aren't part of His character, or what defines Him.
@BornAgainRN I'm detecting a Wif of "No Questions Asked No Answers Questioned" if it cant stand up as logic on YouTube, Then it wont in a Lab. No One Should Believe hes Exists.
@00movieman00, on the contrary, it would be arrogant for a theist to believe that they can totally comprehend the mind of God. All I was saying is that the question doesn't have an answer. God is a Spirit. A rock is a material. If God were material, then that question would have an answer. But, he's not a human being. Spirit & material are two different 'things' & since we aren't spirit being, we can't comprehend what that means - even on YouTube. I'm out of the YouTube debate, BTW. Peace
@BornAgainRN The Bible shows God changing his mind all of the time. But then it's in the Bible that most preachers don't preach from so you wouldn't know it.
@lautz73, when you read of God "changing His mind" in the Bible, you have to read it in context, by comparing the passage to the surrounding text & the message of the Bible as a whole. When God "changes His mind" it is because He tells a particular person what is going to happen if they don't repent. When they do repent, then God doesn't need to follow through on the original discipline or He "changes His mind." This is taught in a lot of churches, which is why being taught is so important.
@BornAgainRN I have read the Bible and God changes his mind on alot of things in the Bible. God had made up his mind to destroy Sodom and Gamorah. He did do it but wouldn't have if somebody (I believe it was Lot or Abraham) could have found just 10 good people in the city. While he did destroy them he would have changed his mind if thsoe people had been found. That's a mighty big change of mind if it would have happened. Tell me again that it's out of context.
@lautz73, God telling Abraham that if je could find just 10 good men in Sodom & Gomorrah, then He wouldn't destroy them, is evidence of His omnipotence. God knew that there weren't 10 good men there, & that's why He destroyed them. Abraham was concerned about Lot & his family, which God allowed him to rescue them, then He destroyed the cities. Lot & his family were not part of the '10 good men' God was talking about, but the 'wicked' residents. Reading the Bible isn't the same as studying it.
@BornAgainRN This video, which you have never answered the question to, asks the very question that proves that God isn't omnipotent yet you fail to see that. You will never admit that I am correct in anything that I say and I will never believe in your God.
PS I probably understand the Bible better than you do since I have actually read it and understand it quite well from just reading it.
@lautz73, it's not that I didn't answer it, it's that you won't accept the explanation, which there's not much I can do about that. God is spiritual - not physical. Creating a rock is physical, not spiritual. Therefore, how can Someone spiritual create something physical He can't lift? The question doesn't have an answer, because the question is based on a misunderstanding of Who, or What, God is. Based on your last 2 posts, it's pretty clear you DON'T understand it- you just like to attack
@BornAgainRN You can keep your churches that will only "teach" the parts of the Bible that either try to prove Gods power or that have some sort of (Gods) morals to teach (I say Gods morals because morals are subjective to the part of the world where you live). What they won't teach is that the Bible says that it's ok to own slaves, beat your wife, that your wife shouldn't work outside of the household, basically saying that women should be kept barefoot, pregnant and ignorant.
@lautz73, I don't know what 'churches' you have attended, but the churches that I have attended DO teach the WHOLE Bible - not just 'parts' of it. By taking the Bible literally, it actually PREVENTS a person from imposing 'their' morals. I don't know where you got the idea that it's okay to beat your wife - maybe from another religion, but it's not from the Bible, which says that we are to treat are NOT to treat our wives cruelly (Ephesians 5) (continued)
@lautz73 (cont) also, women ARE permitted to work outside the home (Proverbs 31, the book of Acts, etc). As far as slaves go, the Hebrew word for 'slave' is actually translated 'servant,' similar to the NT Greek word for 'slave' as Paul calls himself a 'slave' or 'servant' of Jesus. Jews who were in a lot of debt, would often become 'slaves/servants' of other Jews, & the 'masters' of the house were commanded not to treat them harshly (also in Ephesians). Hope this clears up misunderstandings.
Sure He could, just as He can allow His children to have free will to make the choice to disobey Him & sin, which caused things like hunger to begin with. Questions like this show the lack of understanding of the true sources of the world's problems & the true nature of God. When things go good, be pat ourselves on the back for our ingenuity, rather than give God the credit, & when things go bad, we blame God, rather than the choices we make - like world hunger.
@BornAgainRN why did an all knowing god gave free will to his creation and not know that, that free will, will lead them to evil that makes him angry??
@chriss061810 God gave his creation free will to either choose to believe in Him or not. He gives this free will to everyone, just as a loving parent gives their children the freedom to make decisions they know ahead of time they will not approve of. God could have created a race of robotic-like creatures with no free will, that didn't have the choice to disbelieve in Him. But, He loved us enough give us the choice. People don't believe in God, not because there is a lack of evidence, (cont)
@chriss061810 (cont) but rather people choose not to believe in God, because they choose not to believe in the evidence when it is presented to them. I can choose not to believe that George Washington was the 1st President of the United States, despite people showing me overwhelming & indisputable evidence for it, but I still have the free will to disbelieve it, if I want to. The same methods we use to show evidence for George Washington, is the same methods we use for God, Jesus, & the Bible.
@BornAgainRN i don't believe in god not becuase i don't want to but because there is really no evidence to it's existence. all you they just say is you have to believe..o yeah i also have to believe that there is a unicorn so there will be a unicorn. and i'm not stupid like your example of george washington. and i disagree that your evidence to god's existence is overwhelming and undisputable. and you say that he loved us yet he punishes those who didn't go with what he wants
@chriss061810 I think the area where you are having difficulty comprehending is what 'faith' & 'evidence' means. When a Christian says his 'faith' is based on 'evidence,' he isn't saying that he has a belief based on proof. Proof you use with your 5 senses. Evidence you don't, but it's not any less true. You can't prove someone loves you, but there is plenty of evidence for it. Faith isn't 'blind' like believing in a unicorn that doesn't exist. Faith is based on evidence, like the love example.
@chriss061810 (cont) Even if I gave you solid evidence, would you even believe it? I would guess not, since you don't accept the Washington analogy, or you can't comprehend it. Keep in mind, Jesus was a REAL historical person, & many of the claims in the Bible about Him, are backed up by non-Christian historians. So, when I hear the President of the American Atheists say that there is no evidence He even existed, that speaks volumes about the 'faith' of atheists, based on denying evidence.
@BornAgainRN now your talking about jesus from god. there is no concrete evidence of a god. all you they can just say is jus believe in it or because there is an uncaused cause it must be a god. and you were saying that same methods are used? evidences that washington is the 1st president yes is undisputable, but only in "being the 1st" and the evidence of his exxistence is really undisputable unlike the evidence of a god. just think of this. god of bible: there's no other god other than
(cont) me and you should praise no other than me, same as with allah of islam,meaning only one of them is true, so one would be punished, yet alot of christians and muslims still do great with their life (well some do not) which tells you neither two of these tells the truth. and if you're going to say that god is just so loving to punish, just think of hell and what it is for, and just read the old testament
@chriss061810 You still didn't respond to my question - even if I gave you solid evidence, would you even believe it? The God of the Bible & the god of Islam are different gods, because they believe the exact opposite thing about Jesus - the subject of His Deity. Therefore, they both can't be true. One of them is false about Jesus, Who historically was a REAL person, Whose body was NEVER found in nearly 2,000 years. That should have been very easy to do back then.
@BornAgainRN just what is that solid evidence?? by the way i admit im not that intelligent person so i want you to call to athiest experince and present to them your "solid" evidence and link to me the video. let's see how solid your evidence is. im telling you to call them becuase i kadmit i can't put all i think into words
@chriss061810 again...you didn't really answer my question: even if I gave you solid evidence, would you even believe it? Yes or no? It has been my experience with atheists on YouTube & other venues that when verifiable evidence is presented, they don't believe it - not because it's not true - but rather it contradicts their personal belief that God does not exist. As the saying goes, "For the unbeliever, no amount of evidence will do." Also, reread my previous post. Happy Easter!
@BornAgainRN Really what your saying is God can do these things but doesn't want to. I can run 100m in 2 seconds but I don't want to because I'm lazy and its not in my character. 873urehjkcxhbjkh614y3yrn8j8c7fnm7ehtufnjxc
@silksist No, but if that's what you got out of what I was saying, I can understand why you can't or won't grasp the character of Who God is. It's not that God is 'lazy,' but that the character of God is based on logic. God can do anything logic dictates. It's not logical that you could run 100m in 2 seconds, because you're not made up to be capable of doing that. God couldn't create a stone & then not lift it, because a stone is physical, while God is non-physical.
@silksist Obviously, the creator of this video has a misunderstanding of God's omnipotence. There are many things God "can't do." The Bible says God cannot speak a name about Himself, & God cannot lie. It isn't that 'chooses' not to lie, it's that God CAN'T lie, because it's not part of His nature. What amazes me, is that so many people who don't believe in God, have purposely blocked their willingness to truly understand that nature of Who God is, because they want so bad to deny God exists.
@BornAgainRN dude...their is no god. its the biggest lie in history. don't worry were not the only ones. many other alien lifeforms has been through this period of "god". and some managed to kill them selves cause of religious idiots, we call, terrorists. humans r not as smart as we think of ourselves. Omnipotent is a big word to use and is very serious. i would go back in time and shoot the dude that said god was omnipotent. ever seen the movie "invention of lying"? oh its hilarious.
@ervin920, intellectually, it's dishonest for you to say 'there is no god.' You would have to know everything there is to know about everything to make that statement. However, there is overwhelming evidence through science that God does exist. The problem is that most atheists reject the evidence because it contradicts their subjective worldviews. Furthermore, there have been atheistic religious idiots & liars too (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.), which is reflective of your homicidal comments.
First, you used the wrong form of "to" (instead of "too") in your video. Second, to even ask that question, shows a complete lack of understanding of God's character & Who He is. God exists outside our time & space. He is infinitely 'big' in a supernatural sense. So, the question doesn't have an answer, like which is longer - a line that goes infinitely in both directions, or a ray that goes infinitely in one direction - they are both infinite.
u dont make any sense then why would he even make that stone . if he made the totality and fabric of time a stone wouldnt be so dificult GOD can move mountains with mustard seeds
I'm not a Christian, but I don't think this is a great argument.
A Christian can simply respond "OK, so God is omnipotent, with the sole exception of His inability to defeat His own omnipotency."
So fine, he wouldn't be omnipotent in the strictest definition of the word, but he would still be able to do anything other than defeast his own impotency.
The Stone Paradox is a classic straw man way. While an interesting intelectual excersize it does not prove anything. God is not a being like you or me so the paramaters you set are not valid.
If any atheist reads the bible he or she could see that the reason for accomplishing a task "in God's name or approved by God" in the bible is to advance Gods kingdom. The sense that God can do anything IS ONLY IN the context of advancing his kingdom.. AND perfection will always advance in the context of perfection
A person with average intelligence that wants to continue living can think "gee, there is a knife there i better stab myself with it so i will die" is contradicting his or her logic. God is limited in the sense that he is unlimited. he is limited because he is not STUPID and IS UNLIMITED because HE IS INTELLIGENT!
If God were to create a stone so heavy he couldn't lift it he would break the definition of omnipotent. God would enfeeble himself and thus disproving God knew everything but since he does he wouldn't even consider this because ... well i think its obvious ...
The answer is simple. There is no omnipotent god, and nor is there a god of any kind.
Omnipotancy is a flawed word. It represents an abstract concept that, by definition creates the problem you described. The word confounds itself, by definition.
A more practical approach is to assume that EVERYTHING is limited. Some things, however are so immense that they are difficult to quantify. But everything IS limited. At least, everything we can currently observe in the physical world.
Suppose God can define all "variables" of a rock. He can create as heavy a rock as he likes (a rock with as high a value for "weight" as he likes). If he is omnipotent, there is no limit on how much he can lift. So he can create as heavy a rock as he likes, but he can lift it if he likes. There needn't be an attribute "GodCanLiftThis = true/false" for a rock, only weight. Kinda like division by zero. It does not exist.
There is a flaw to this logic. First of the defintion of Omipotent is "having all the power there is or will be". In other words God is all the power but God can only be God. God can't not be God the same way God can't make a circle not a circle. Yes even God has limits.
but keeping it simple... a statement can be both true and false in the eyes of an omnipotent beeing. That's what omnipotence is all about. I'm actualy a non believer but that doesn't change the fact that this is a very simple problem for modern science and logic.
Keep to simpler things... try to imagine infinity... once you can imagine that we can talk about omnipotence :o)
And I don't see what n-dimensional space has to do with it, we're not talking about simplexes or hyperspheres here. Plus I haven't heard anything that would allow a statement or concept in n-dimensional space to be true and false. Only thing I can think of that would come close would be something like a Multiverse theory assuming we're talking about multi-domain universes & that reality is different outside our own Hubble limit. Way to complicated for a question with an answer we'll never know
like i said... the logic is flawed... it ignores the definition of omnipotency...
this question has been around for over 100 years and it has already been solved... i'm just telling you the answer that someone smarter then you and me came up with...
no, it's not possible for a human to even grasp it... don't try :o)
PROdotes: Sounds like your saying the *question* can't be true because God is omnipotent, i.e. God is omnipotent, meaning he can do both. Thas not it, you're restating the definition of omnipotence. The question is "can he create a stone to heavy for him to lift?" both answers deny he is omnipotent. I gave the definition at the beginning said "assume this is true," I wasnt saying "give God the ability to do the logically impossible" If you define omnipotence differently, maybe there's an issue.
Yes, the answer is no, God could not create a rock so heavy than He, Himself could not lift it, but let's see the explaination why. God is infinite and eternal, for God not being able to lift the rock, the rock would have to pass infinity and eternity, now how is that possible? And it is impossible for material objects to be infinite, God cannot do what is actually impossible like creating a 2 sided triangle or a married bachelor.
I'm a pretty staunch atheist, but I disapprove of your circular logic. I'd go with something more along the lines of 'The bible says the world is 6000 years old...' other than a logical twist.
That statement doesn't disprove God, like the stone paradox tries to, discredit it maybe but not disprove. Plus using that as evidence wouldn't do much good against someone who believes the Bible is fact. There is no right or wrong answer here, you simply cannot disprove or prove God exists. The paradox is simply just one way of thinking.
There is a really good story about that, which I will post online soon, but long story short, that statue wasnt bought by me, or placed by me, or placed knowing there would b a light there, that light is rarely on, etc etc. Yet after praying for an angel to be revealed to me, that was lit up, it was one of the most, if not the most amazing experience of my life.
I've similar experiences without praying. If you look for something you'll find it, or notice things that might fit into your belief. It's like the "stop light" theory; you only remember the red lights and not the red (especially if you're in a hurry).
so if i look for an eliphant driving a mini I'll find it? No. Therefore your statement is wrong, it should be "if you look for something that is there, you'll find it" but if the chances are so vastly slim, but you find something that is never usually there, there is more to it then just looking.
I know it can be hard to find him, its easy not to believe, we r a fallen-creation, more in-touch with Satan then God, we have become divided from God. I wish we were friends, as the easiest way for someone to find God, is through someone they trust. I wish you could trust me when I say, I know with every fiber of my being, God is real, he loves you and He has an amazing plan for your life. Then maybe you could start living the dream that God has for you.
I know it can be hard to find him, its easy not to believe, we r a fallen-creation, more in-touch with Satan then God, we have become divided from God. I wish we were friends, as the easiest way for someone to find God, is through someone they trust. I wish you could trust me when I say, I know with every fiber of my being, God is real, he loves you and He has an amazing plan for your life. Then maybe you could start living the dream that God has for you.
I gave my heart to him and then as I started acting out my faith, doing things with trust in him, he leads me to amazing places, people and things. That I would never find by myself.
If you don't cry for joy and shout with passion every waking moment of your life, then you need God. Cause that's what God feel like.
Difference between you and me is I can not accept standard belief in God and still find amazing places. Life's a journey; I like to be in charge of my own path.
Again, you have no evidence for a "loving" God other than your feeling. That's not fact.
I have also seen a miracle sign profoundproductions. co. uk/ ANGEL. jpg
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I have only been a Christian for 3 months dude! Its truly unbelievable how mazing my journey with God is. You haven't even begun yet, that's why u deny his existence, u don't seem to want to know him, because u don't know what He is or what He does.
Wait, you don't go to church? You're Christian though right? I'm confused... What will you find? Of course if you look for YOUR God you'll find it. It's called "faith" (I have no religious faith, I question nearly everything by nature) This is not evidence for God.
It took me 7 years of discussing God before I actually started listening, 7 years to become wise enough to not get carried away with what humans think they know. 7 years to realize we know nothing. Then I finally opened up my mind to other possibilities and started looking for evidence to support the existence of God. I have found what they claim is Noah's ark, the Ark of the Covenant, the blood of Christ, along with many amazing statistics involved with Intelligent Design.
We do know nothing yet you're claiming all these things are "real" Noah's Ark, the Ark of the Covenant, the blood of Christ... I'm really confused by your reasoning. Intelligent Design is bullshit, created for the sole purpose of refuting evolution. I wrote this paper on it, I'll find it and tell you some of the stuff I found.
You know they were expecting Jesus? The one true Messiah, Saviour of mankind, Lamb of God, the one true hero ^^ So yeh, its no wonder they wanted others to be Jesus, they were waiting for the Messiah, so when they didn't see him, they tried to make him from other people, that why you had so many fake Messiahs in those days.
Just because they expected him doesn't make him the son of God or perfect. He appealed to the vast majority, the meek (I think). People still believed in other "fake messiahs" when Jesus was around. No one could prove he was the "real" son of God or not, people just thought that due to some outside influence. Also, his miracles could have been simple illusions or magic by today's standards. For people wanting to believe so badly, they'd be works of God.
You seriously think 'a man' could show such love in the face of such hate? A man could never be tricked by the wise and intellectual, never made a mistake? That's simply not possible, you can't say he was just man, no man could be so perfect, so wise, so loving.
I don't remember saying "I don't believe it because its been translated so many times," I was just using that as evidence for doubt.
Jesus did those things in the stories but other than those stories there is no evidence to suggest that he was the guy most today believe him to be. Would you really respect him that much if he HAD made mistakes and HAD sinned?
So what you are saying is, if Jesus did sin, had flaws, made mistakes, etc. you would not respect him at all? Even if he did bring peace to mankind, give people hope for years, and bring ethics to the people? That's strange... Him having flaws is not evidence against him being the son of God either btw. God isn't sin free or perfect, he "murders," allows catastrophe to happen, does "unfair" things. All this means is merely that he wasn't perfect, he was after all human by some standard.
It's simple "heroic" method of writing. You can see it put into action in many ancient texts. Babylonians say that Gilgamesh was 2 thirds God and one third Man, had a perfect body, and did superhuman things. Beowulf tore the arm off Grendel without a sword and swam miles in full battle armor. Of course these things aren't the same as living a life without sinning but it all has to do with how society at that point in time envisions a hero.
Also; because society "envisions a hero" that is not evidence against Jesus (as u seem to be putting it), it is actually evidence for him as they all knew and expected a Saviour, a hero. If no one wanted to see a Saviour then that would be evidence against him.
It's evidence against the image of Jesus being sin-free, son of God, etc. People would depict him as being the time period's perfect hero. If he was just some guy that brought peace to a land, example, he'd be like a past President whose policy would fade from the public mind after some number of years. If it was the son of God that brought the peace, then his "policy" would be remembered for centuries after.
You truly no nothing about the man, only what others thought or believed him to be. Other's perspectives/writings are not evidence for him being the son of God or perfect. And wasn't the New Testament written a good number of years after he died? Information could have changed SO dramatically in that period of time.
Shakespeare changed all that with the tragic hero, part of the reason we see flawed heroes in today's literature, all undergoing some internal struggle, Guy Montag (Fahrenheit 451), Ender Wiggin (Ender's Game), Bernard Marx (Brave New World). These heroes are a far cry from Jesus in terms of the live they live. However, in today's society we tend to view a hero as someone who is far from perfect, made mistakes and overcame their own demons for the good of mankind or whatever.
it is proven to be at the very least 98% accurate in its translation and that final 2% won't change the meaning of even one verse, only a slight modification of a word at most. So saying such things is simply no excuse and is ignorant. Sorry if that's blunt, but that's the way it is, straight up.
how u can turn your back on Jesus after what he did for you, I will never ever know. Please tell me what HE did to make you do that, or is it just that someone else did/said something to you? or was it something u did to yourself after being told something? Whatever it was or whoever it was, it wasn't Jesus, yet he is the one you choose to abandon, u just just so lucky that God is so forgiving, cause if that was me, I would never accept u back. What did happen though? i'm curious
You're right btw I was never fully Christian, it was just something I had to do because my parents said so. I never saw the point, and again, it seemed completely archaic to me. Nothing happened dude, it was a choice I made. Jesus was a great man yeah, but that's it, just a man. That's my opinion. Period.
It's been 7 years now dude since I "gave up" christianity, 7 fucking amazing years. I don't need "your" God to be happy. My version suits me just fine.
JUST A MAN? You seriously think 'just a man' could do what he did? You seriously think 'a man' could live a sin free life? Never lie, steal, commit adultery, hate, covet, etc? Volunteer to be crucified? Show love and forgiveness to His evil tormentors after they brutally beat him as they did?
Honestly dude, that Case for a Creator video is serious Christian propaganda. I spent the first 12 years of my life as a Christian and my experience was not a positive one, which is why I am no longer Christian. That was probably one of the best decisions in my life. Videos and websites like that and your views aren't going to change my mind just as my views or my videos won't change yours.
u were never a Christian, I spent 26 years being lost and you would never be SO STUPID as to choice a life without God, If you knew God. Excuse me being blunt, but that is seriously the most stupid thing u could ever do, don't be a fool, don't listen to the lies of the Devil. I lived 26 years without God and its hell, if you want to find that out for yourself, be my guest, but you will be a fool.
Besides, its the most fascinating subject their is to study, what could be more exciting then searching for evidence of a God!? searching for how EVERYTHING began. Get into it, you wont regret it, check out case for a creator on youtube.
You may think he's not the Son of God, but that doesn't make him just a man, fact is, he is the Son of God and the most important decision of your life is being made without even researching the matter. You can take Christianity lightly if you want, but it will be the biggest mistake of your life.
actually he was right, its 100,000 light years. But anyway, all this is proving is that you are seeking God, but don't know what questions to ask. I suggest you save yourself some time and get some answers rather then wastering time on trivial questions.
Check out looktojesus com, go through the steps, then click the 30 day guide on the home page. I'm currently doing it and wish I had at the start, it would of saved me a lot of hassle and even hardship.
My bad the distance from the Large and Small Magellanic clouds is 200,000 light years.
Thanks but no thanks, Jesus was a great man yeah but the son of God? I think not. Besides, whose to say the Bible isn't just a work of fiction?
Modern structured religions are archaic in my opinion. Religion is a personal experience and should be treated as such without people or documents telling you what to do and what to think.
"whose to say the Bible isn't just a work of fiction?" Everyone who knows anything about history ^^ There is no rock solid proof that EVERYTHING in the Bible is true, but if u r asking, "wats to say THE WHOLE THING isn't fiction?" they u need to start studying, as there is no doubt, either with believers or non-believers that its not just fiction.
There is no doubt that Beowulf or The Epic of Gilgamesh isn't all fiction either. Both have some historical accuracy and tell tales of supposedly real people but you don't see people believing everything said in those texts. Trust me dude, the Bible should not be taken as the word of God, especially after the amount of translations it has undergone.
"especially after the amount of translations it has undergone." lol dude, you obviously dont know anything about the Bible, its the most accurately and thoroughly and accurately translated document in all of history, just download some Bible software and it will tell u how many thousands upon thousands upon thousands of times each word has been check (each time by a different person)
I don't care how accurate it's been translated. Translation from one language to another doesn't always work. One word might not mean the same thing, imply different meaning, have a different tone, yadda yadda yadda. That becomes irrelevant though when you take into account the reader has to interpret the writing and it will mean different things to one person than another.
Your right, the meanings can change (slightly), as we don't have enough words to describe everything. But the statement of "I don't believe it because its been translated so many times" Is routed in a lie from Satan, there is no document more thoroughly checked then the Bible,
let's look at it this way. unlimited power. able to do anything. able to lift an unliftable rock? yes. why? he can do anything. he can make square circles. logic and physics don't apply to God. our feeble minds can't comprehend his power anyways. so give it up.
TheAnonymus2012 1 week ago
another problem is that there is no such thing as a stone god cannot lift, so the question itself is nonsensical. it is like saying "can god create a stone so heavy that the jets win the super bowl?"
10YNWA10 2 months ago
you could argue that he could simultaneously create a stone he cannot lift and be able to lift it. yes, this leads to a contradiction, but it doesnt matter: being omnipotent means you can do anything, and making a contradiction work falls under the category of "anything."
10YNWA10 2 months ago
I hear the replies about things he cannot do because its not in his character. The problem is describing him as omnipotent. If there is anything he cannot do, for whatever reasons, he cannot be described as omnipotent. Omnipotence itself is a characteristic that cannot make sense.
teflontahj1 4 months ago
So God has infinite power, and the stone has infinite weight. The reason this is a paradox is that it would never exist in reality-it violates the laws of physics. In theory though, pitting God against the stone when neither can yield leaves only one possible answer. The stone is rendered weightless by God's infinite power canceling out rthe stone's infinite weight.
imranhamid99 4 months ago
@enclosedinstructions lolololol
MrAimsworth 7 months ago
But what is the point? to probe what ? about what? if so what? are you going to help people with that of what?
yunkeish 8 months ago
they wondered what would happen if an unstoppable force met an immovable object. and then chuck norris roundhouse kicked himself in the face
420lightmyspliff420 8 months ago
If God created a separate universe where all that existed was a rock, it would be the most massive object, and thus it would be heavy, and also it would be un-liftable because there would be nothing to lift it from. Regardless, I do not believe that a god exists.
KnurdShogun 11 months ago
but he can still make the stone...
mofunzonecom 11 months ago
What dumb video. Can god create a stone so heavy he can't lift it? He put Jupiter into orbit and suns 100 times as large as ours. What a DUMB video!!!!
willhelmfred05 1 year ago
@willhelmfred05 Answer the question. Can God create a stone that he can't lift? Yes or no.
lautz73 1 year ago
The Holy Trinity - Father (God) Son (Jesus) and the Holy spirit.
God the Father would create the stone, then give it to his son Jesus. Jesus would try to lift it, but since he is limited to human abilities, except for miracles, he would not be able to lift it.
PCgamer1010 1 year ago
@PCgamer1010
but if lifting a stone that heavy is considered a miracle, then why shouldnt jesus be able to lift it.
raidersSolja 1 year ago
@raidersSolja
It's not considered a miracle?
PCgamer1010 1 year ago
@PCgamer1010
re read my comment...now reply
raidersSolja 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
yes @ that time and no @ that time.
BoxingBeatings 1 year ago
Hmm. Solution: Create stone. Ask Hulk to SMASH! Pick up bits. Solved. ;)
Clownfreaks 1 year ago 4
god dosent have to lift the stone it lifts its self
n0w0rld0rder1 1 year ago
@n0w0rld0rder1 lolwut
mynameisjonas45 1 year ago
First, I would like to say the conclusion is valid; it follows logically from the premises. But, the premises are problematic. God, by definition, is timeless and immaterial. But the problem is framed within space and time. So what the paradox does it relegates God to our plane of existence and turns him into a human with omnipotence (Superman if you will). This, of course, is not God. So what the stone paradox does is not disprove God but disprove an omnipotent human being.
deanmean87 1 year ago
@deanmean87
ah of course...excellent
raidersSolja 1 year ago
another paradox...god can succeed at everything...if so he can succeed at failing...if he fails...he did not succeed in everything
tellemscrappy 1 year ago
what stone is this about??
glupsamja 1 year ago
I used to find this argument persuasive but I don't anymore. Not that I have any reason at all to believe in any deity at all -- I just don't find this particular argument persuasive. Presuming that "all powerful" doesn't include claims to transcend logic -- which would be an absurd claim, then the claim is that God can do anything that is not "logically impossible."
So God, for instance, does not have the power to both simultaneously lie and tell the truth.
prodprod 1 year ago
(cont'd) So in the same way, all of the variations of these questions amount to the same thing. Can God express his power in two mutually exclusive ways at the same time. Can he both create an impenetrable armor and simultaneously penetrate it. An immovable object and simultaneously move it.
Essentially, the question is -- can God's omnipotence be expressed illogically?
And since those who have characterized it have already stated as a caveat that it cannot -- the answer is no.
prodprod 1 year ago
(cont'd) That is -- God may lie *or* tell the truth -- but God can't do both at the same time. God may express his limitless power in the form of infinite impenetrability *or* infinite penetrability, but he can't do both *at the same time* -- for the same reason that he can't lie and tell the truth at the same time.
Because they're mutually exclusive and thus to do both would be a logical absurdity.
That is not, in any way, evidence for God.
It just means that's a bad argument.
prodprod 1 year ago
Yeah religion is poison. The rules appear to exist though. So until we know how to circumvent them we are stuck with these odd paradoxes. Odd thing is, we are the only species that we know of in the entire universe that can manipulate these rules and yet we choose to allow the starvation of children. Maybe God is just a human ideal...like love and truth.
kdarcy 1 year ago
If God is omnipotent, then he can also bend the rules of logic. That means that he could create a stone that is too heavy for him to lift and still lift it.
ItsDaHand 1 year ago
@ItsDaHand
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable?
On3Thought 1 year ago
@On3Thought God Shouldn't Fine Questions Unanswerable, I mean Camman... hes God... Religion is Poison!
00movieman00 1 year ago
this logic assumes a universe in which paradoxes can exist. Since nothing can logically exist that is inherently impossible, the question "Can an omnipotent being create a stone he can't lift," is undefined. "Omnipotence" in a universe that has physical limits means the ability to do anything that can be done. If those limits say such a stone cannot exist, then the inability of God to create a stone too heavy for him to lift does not negate his omnipotence.
technopagan724 1 year ago
Hi everybody this is God. I was tooling through youtube and came across this video. First of all I am not a man so stop calling me a "He. " Secondly I am not omnipotent cause if I was I would surely smite thee. Third I can neither create a rock or lift a rock, I can only create the laws for which a rock can be created or lifted. I am sort of a cosmic congress-person.
kdarcy 1 year ago
@kdarcy Wow... Your the First "Pro-God' person to actually make some fucking sense, but why smite thee for not understanding what You should "Make Clear" to all of us...? and i mean camman, cant u "Create Rules" that don't allow children to starve to death Every Day? Religion is Poison!
00movieman00 1 year ago
he can...he just chooses not to... i win!
MrDerby2u 1 year ago
This is simple, the initial question is erroneous so there can be no proper answer, If God created everything then that what he created cannot be greater than him in any way. So asking such a question is like asking a computer to find the absolute square of 2
bicnarok 1 year ago
God has no physical strength because he is not a physical being. Also Rocks aren't measured in "liftablility" they are measured in weight. Seeing as God is omnipotent (which seems like the wrong word) he is infinitely strong and therefore able to lift infinite weight.
gzuzzfreek 2 years ago
Before he makes the stone he is omnipotent as he can do ANYTHING!(at that moment) but after he makes the stone he loses his omnipotency as there is SOMETHING he can't do anymore.
timeage 2 years ago
@timeage thats one of the dumbest thing ive seen... Religion is Poison
00movieman00 1 year ago
No matter what any one does they may not find that "God" exists or does not exist in life but u might as well not waste ur time and just wait till ur body dies ta see if "God" really exists cuz if it is "God" then it exists outside of the physical plane.wont it be fun to find out tho.....whether u rot in the ground or whether u find a so called "God" . death scares people because they are afraid to accept consequences and pray to a "god" because they want to be relieved of all of there sins
Nwo599 2 years ago
A way around this is to say that God can do all possible things, and that being a stone which is heavier than oneself is not possible.
assuming that God is still God that is, ie everything.
It exposes the religious concept of God as deeply flawed, anthropomorphic, finite and limited, religions insist God is a person.
people are properties of the universe, not the other way around.
religious logic is so poor that it is a wonder they do up their shoe laces.
It is just abuse and cultist dogma.
marsCubed 2 years ago
Of course that God has created both things because he is omnipetence. God created earth. if he lands on earth and walks on it (like Jesus) he cant lift it just because he is on it. but at the same timeGod created sun so as long as God is every wherehe makes that the sun gravity lift our planet to our current orbit. so both things where do it at the same time. Because he is omnipotent . we humans otherwise are limited to our skills and point of view.
groendel 2 years ago
Because of the nature of God's omnipotence: God will not create such a stone under any circumstance. If the hypothetical were to take place then God would have to change the logic which he created in order to perform the contradictory.
Ichthus91 2 years ago
this is stupid. Epicurus said it right
kenny8331 2 years ago
Epicurus
kenny8331 2 years ago
Of course,God can make the stone .aaaand He can lift it.He is omnipotent remember?.Those are really silly questions.Omnipotence being derived form the Bible wich is infinite absolute power.He won`t make a stone that he can`t lift because He cannot deny himself,thus He cannot deny his omnipotence.He cannot be omnipotent and not omnipotent at the same time and in the same way.A is not not A
Presup1973 2 years ago
I got it ! YAY
God creates the rock that he can't lift
then he creates a creature that can lift the rock
but since the creature was created by him the creature is under his control
so he is able to lift the rock indirectly
therefore he can lift the rock and not be able to lift the rock at the same time
utsavman47 2 years ago
@utsavman47
If you are saying that the creature which was God's creation can lift the rock means that God can lift the rock by any means, you are saying the creature IS God therefore we are all God.
According to believers we are a creation of God, and according to you creations of God are God himself, then because humans do evil, so does God.
This is pretty much what you said means, as well as any other believer who says God acts through us, his creations.
pnx3mt 2 years ago
the idea of the stone and strength makes it easy for us to understand, but if a stone became so massive, how would you lift it? wouldn't the stones gravity be greater than everything else? it would be like lifting the sun off the earth (if they were on each other) doesnt really make sense but neither does much anything else in most paradox discussions
jamn696969 2 years ago
assuming god's strength is all, or an infinite amount of weight able to be lifted, then no finite stone could be created that he couldn't lift, but since he's all powerful he can create a stone that's weight is infinite, and since the two infinite sets aren't numbers, they cant 'surpass' one another. its simply asking wether a finite number in an infinite set can be created that is greater than his strength (also an infinite set), which is false, however, this stone has infinite weight=possibly?
jamn696969 2 years ago
If you are "all powerful" then you cannot create something that you cannot control. Unless you create free will that is.
yuradumas 2 years ago
then again God can do anything
which means everything will be under his control
this hell complicated
utsavman47 2 years ago
lol u need to read saint agustin or saint aquinas or saint anselm even descartes or spinoza answered ur illy paradox longtima ago.
raulemtzc 3 years ago
what a stupid video. You think that omnipotent means super strengh like that of superman. Remember god does not have a physical body, he is not from the material world. He is omnipotent in the spiritual dimension, and only he has the power to alter our universe, by acting in the spitual dimension. Those who object god because of thier angaer to worldly religions, are as blind are those who beleive in those religions.
J Espriella
jespriella 3 years ago
ok then ask if he can create a body that can lift this rock...
awwurdead 3 years ago
not saying that this solves either the athiestic or thiestic problems... but your aguement is fallacious.
For, any meaningful word must be meaningful in some sense. omnipotence can be defined in 2 ways.. either "can do anything" which would be an infinite... or "can do anything within the realm of posibility" which would be a finite number. if a god exists it only needs the 2nd kind since we dont have it in our conception of god that it should be able to be not god or be able to kill himself
mojosexytime 3 years ago
Humans can not fathom omnipotences.
We created the definition for ourselves.
Bishop82 3 years ago
@Bishop82 God Gave Us The Mind To Fathom Him, and to create the Term Omnipotences, why would he make us define it wrong. Religion is Poison!
00movieman00 1 year ago
@Bishop82 In the same way that we created God for ourselves...
QuietDoubter 1 year ago
what's up with that last photo in the video ....creppy..
bEsTeLbestel 3 years ago 2
It's Saturn Devouring His Son by Francisco Goya. I have my reasons for including it.
FloatingHatFilms 3 years ago
what are those reasons if you so wish to share.
rubixxcube 3 years ago
@FloatingHatFilms what is your reason?
TwistedMentality089 8 months ago
@FloatingHatFilms What are they? Just curious...
MrAimsworth 7 months ago
Hay, wow:) I like this paradox. It realy gets you thinking.
In a way its like proof that god cant do 'Anything'..
or you can think that god can and cant lift the stone..like hes so good he can do both at the same time:)
bazzmond 4 years ago
i think you are from the stone age motherfucker :)))
asajasdnfo 4 years ago
There are many other things God 'can't' do because it isn't part of His character, such as: stop being God, sin, make mistakes, change His mind, lie, and die. It's not that He 'can't' do these things, they just aren't part of His character, or what defines Him.
BornAgainRN 4 years ago 10
@BornAgainRN I'm detecting a Wif of "No Questions Asked No Answers Questioned" if it cant stand up as logic on YouTube, Then it wont in a Lab. No One Should Believe hes Exists.
00movieman00 1 year ago
@00movieman00, on the contrary, it would be arrogant for a theist to believe that they can totally comprehend the mind of God. All I was saying is that the question doesn't have an answer. God is a Spirit. A rock is a material. If God were material, then that question would have an answer. But, he's not a human being. Spirit & material are two different 'things' & since we aren't spirit being, we can't comprehend what that means - even on YouTube. I'm out of the YouTube debate, BTW. Peace
BornAgainRN 1 year ago
@BornAgainRN The Bible shows God changing his mind all of the time. But then it's in the Bible that most preachers don't preach from so you wouldn't know it.
lautz73 1 year ago
@lautz73, when you read of God "changing His mind" in the Bible, you have to read it in context, by comparing the passage to the surrounding text & the message of the Bible as a whole. When God "changes His mind" it is because He tells a particular person what is going to happen if they don't repent. When they do repent, then God doesn't need to follow through on the original discipline or He "changes His mind." This is taught in a lot of churches, which is why being taught is so important.
BornAgainRN 1 year ago
@BornAgainRN I have read the Bible and God changes his mind on alot of things in the Bible. God had made up his mind to destroy Sodom and Gamorah. He did do it but wouldn't have if somebody (I believe it was Lot or Abraham) could have found just 10 good people in the city. While he did destroy them he would have changed his mind if thsoe people had been found. That's a mighty big change of mind if it would have happened. Tell me again that it's out of context.
lautz73 1 year ago
@lautz73, God telling Abraham that if je could find just 10 good men in Sodom & Gomorrah, then He wouldn't destroy them, is evidence of His omnipotence. God knew that there weren't 10 good men there, & that's why He destroyed them. Abraham was concerned about Lot & his family, which God allowed him to rescue them, then He destroyed the cities. Lot & his family were not part of the '10 good men' God was talking about, but the 'wicked' residents. Reading the Bible isn't the same as studying it.
BornAgainRN 1 year ago
@BornAgainRN This video, which you have never answered the question to, asks the very question that proves that God isn't omnipotent yet you fail to see that. You will never admit that I am correct in anything that I say and I will never believe in your God.
PS I probably understand the Bible better than you do since I have actually read it and understand it quite well from just reading it.
lautz73 1 year ago
@lautz73, it's not that I didn't answer it, it's that you won't accept the explanation, which there's not much I can do about that. God is spiritual - not physical. Creating a rock is physical, not spiritual. Therefore, how can Someone spiritual create something physical He can't lift? The question doesn't have an answer, because the question is based on a misunderstanding of Who, or What, God is. Based on your last 2 posts, it's pretty clear you DON'T understand it- you just like to attack
BornAgainRN 1 year ago
@BornAgainRN You can keep your churches that will only "teach" the parts of the Bible that either try to prove Gods power or that have some sort of (Gods) morals to teach (I say Gods morals because morals are subjective to the part of the world where you live). What they won't teach is that the Bible says that it's ok to own slaves, beat your wife, that your wife shouldn't work outside of the household, basically saying that women should be kept barefoot, pregnant and ignorant.
lautz73 1 year ago
@lautz73, I don't know what 'churches' you have attended, but the churches that I have attended DO teach the WHOLE Bible - not just 'parts' of it. By taking the Bible literally, it actually PREVENTS a person from imposing 'their' morals. I don't know where you got the idea that it's okay to beat your wife - maybe from another religion, but it's not from the Bible, which says that we are to treat are NOT to treat our wives cruelly (Ephesians 5) (continued)
BornAgainRN 1 year ago
@lautz73 (cont) also, women ARE permitted to work outside the home (Proverbs 31, the book of Acts, etc). As far as slaves go, the Hebrew word for 'slave' is actually translated 'servant,' similar to the NT Greek word for 'slave' as Paul calls himself a 'slave' or 'servant' of Jesus. Jews who were in a lot of debt, would often become 'slaves/servants' of other Jews, & the 'masters' of the house were commanded not to treat them harshly (also in Ephesians). Hope this clears up misunderstandings.
BornAgainRN 1 year ago
@BornAgainRN Okay okay I have one...
can God.... feed his children so nobody has to go hungry?
ThisIsUngood 11 months ago
@ThisIsUngood
Sure He could, just as He can allow His children to have free will to make the choice to disobey Him & sin, which caused things like hunger to begin with. Questions like this show the lack of understanding of the true sources of the world's problems & the true nature of God. When things go good, be pat ourselves on the back for our ingenuity, rather than give God the credit, & when things go bad, we blame God, rather than the choices we make - like world hunger.
BornAgainRN 11 months ago
@BornAgainRN why did an all knowing god gave free will to his creation and not know that, that free will, will lead them to evil that makes him angry??
chriss061810 11 months ago
@chriss061810 God gave his creation free will to either choose to believe in Him or not. He gives this free will to everyone, just as a loving parent gives their children the freedom to make decisions they know ahead of time they will not approve of. God could have created a race of robotic-like creatures with no free will, that didn't have the choice to disbelieve in Him. But, He loved us enough give us the choice. People don't believe in God, not because there is a lack of evidence, (cont)
BornAgainRN 11 months ago
@chriss061810 (cont) but rather people choose not to believe in God, because they choose not to believe in the evidence when it is presented to them. I can choose not to believe that George Washington was the 1st President of the United States, despite people showing me overwhelming & indisputable evidence for it, but I still have the free will to disbelieve it, if I want to. The same methods we use to show evidence for George Washington, is the same methods we use for God, Jesus, & the Bible.
BornAgainRN 11 months ago
@BornAgainRN i don't believe in god not becuase i don't want to but because there is really no evidence to it's existence. all you they just say is you have to believe..o yeah i also have to believe that there is a unicorn so there will be a unicorn. and i'm not stupid like your example of george washington. and i disagree that your evidence to god's existence is overwhelming and undisputable. and you say that he loved us yet he punishes those who didn't go with what he wants
chriss061810 10 months ago
@chriss061810 I think the area where you are having difficulty comprehending is what 'faith' & 'evidence' means. When a Christian says his 'faith' is based on 'evidence,' he isn't saying that he has a belief based on proof. Proof you use with your 5 senses. Evidence you don't, but it's not any less true. You can't prove someone loves you, but there is plenty of evidence for it. Faith isn't 'blind' like believing in a unicorn that doesn't exist. Faith is based on evidence, like the love example.
BornAgainRN 10 months ago
@chriss061810 (cont) Even if I gave you solid evidence, would you even believe it? I would guess not, since you don't accept the Washington analogy, or you can't comprehend it. Keep in mind, Jesus was a REAL historical person, & many of the claims in the Bible about Him, are backed up by non-Christian historians. So, when I hear the President of the American Atheists say that there is no evidence He even existed, that speaks volumes about the 'faith' of atheists, based on denying evidence.
BornAgainRN 10 months ago
@BornAgainRN now your talking about jesus from god. there is no concrete evidence of a god. all you they can just say is jus believe in it or because there is an uncaused cause it must be a god. and you were saying that same methods are used? evidences that washington is the 1st president yes is undisputable, but only in "being the 1st" and the evidence of his exxistence is really undisputable unlike the evidence of a god. just think of this. god of bible: there's no other god other than
chriss061810 10 months ago
(cont) me and you should praise no other than me, same as with allah of islam,meaning only one of them is true, so one would be punished, yet alot of christians and muslims still do great with their life (well some do not) which tells you neither two of these tells the truth. and if you're going to say that god is just so loving to punish, just think of hell and what it is for, and just read the old testament
chriss061810 10 months ago
@chriss061810 You still didn't respond to my question - even if I gave you solid evidence, would you even believe it? The God of the Bible & the god of Islam are different gods, because they believe the exact opposite thing about Jesus - the subject of His Deity. Therefore, they both can't be true. One of them is false about Jesus, Who historically was a REAL person, Whose body was NEVER found in nearly 2,000 years. That should have been very easy to do back then.
BornAgainRN 10 months ago
@BornAgainRN just what is that solid evidence?? by the way i admit im not that intelligent person so i want you to call to athiest experince and present to them your "solid" evidence and link to me the video. let's see how solid your evidence is. im telling you to call them becuase i kadmit i can't put all i think into words
chriss061810 10 months ago
@chriss061810 again...you didn't really answer my question: even if I gave you solid evidence, would you even believe it? Yes or no? It has been my experience with atheists on YouTube & other venues that when verifiable evidence is presented, they don't believe it - not because it's not true - but rather it contradicts their personal belief that God does not exist. As the saying goes, "For the unbeliever, no amount of evidence will do." Also, reread my previous post. Happy Easter!
BornAgainRN 10 months ago
@chriss061810 yes of course but what is that solid evidence?
chriss061810 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@chriss061810
Two weeks have gone by, no evidence has been presented. How predictable.
Quintinohthree 9 months ago
@BornAgainRN Really what your saying is God can do these things but doesn't want to. I can run 100m in 2 seconds but I don't want to because I'm lazy and its not in my character. 873urehjkcxhbjkh614y3yrn8j8c7fnm7ehtufnjxc
silksist 8 months ago
@silksist No, but if that's what you got out of what I was saying, I can understand why you can't or won't grasp the character of Who God is. It's not that God is 'lazy,' but that the character of God is based on logic. God can do anything logic dictates. It's not logical that you could run 100m in 2 seconds, because you're not made up to be capable of doing that. God couldn't create a stone & then not lift it, because a stone is physical, while God is non-physical.
BornAgainRN 8 months ago
@silksist Obviously, the creator of this video has a misunderstanding of God's omnipotence. There are many things God "can't do." The Bible says God cannot speak a name about Himself, & God cannot lie. It isn't that 'chooses' not to lie, it's that God CAN'T lie, because it's not part of His nature. What amazes me, is that so many people who don't believe in God, have purposely blocked their willingness to truly understand that nature of Who God is, because they want so bad to deny God exists.
BornAgainRN 8 months ago
@BornAgainRN dude...their is no god. its the biggest lie in history. don't worry were not the only ones. many other alien lifeforms has been through this period of "god". and some managed to kill them selves cause of religious idiots, we call, terrorists. humans r not as smart as we think of ourselves. Omnipotent is a big word to use and is very serious. i would go back in time and shoot the dude that said god was omnipotent. ever seen the movie "invention of lying"? oh its hilarious.
ervin920 7 months ago
@ervin920, intellectually, it's dishonest for you to say 'there is no god.' You would have to know everything there is to know about everything to make that statement. However, there is overwhelming evidence through science that God does exist. The problem is that most atheists reject the evidence because it contradicts their subjective worldviews. Furthermore, there have been atheistic religious idiots & liars too (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.), which is reflective of your homicidal comments.
BornAgainRN 7 months ago
First, you used the wrong form of "to" (instead of "too") in your video. Second, to even ask that question, shows a complete lack of understanding of God's character & Who He is. God exists outside our time & space. He is infinitely 'big' in a supernatural sense. So, the question doesn't have an answer, like which is longer - a line that goes infinitely in both directions, or a ray that goes infinitely in one direction - they are both infinite.
BornAgainRN 4 years ago
God would first make a stone so big that can't lift, then he would make the gravity less, so he can lift it.
God can do everything, even solve these paradoxes. ;D
agun17 4 years ago
u dont make any sense then why would he even make that stone . if he made the totality and fabric of time a stone wouldnt be so dificult GOD can move mountains with mustard seeds
Melinda724 4 years ago
You don't understand Melinda.
If God COULD create a stone he COULD NOT lift then he COULD NOT be omnipotent.
He WOULD NOT be able to lift the stone.
If God COULD lift the stone it means God CANNOT create a stone he CANNOT lift.
God MUST be able to do EVERTHING but if he CANNOT create a stone he CANNOT lift then he is NOT omnipotent.
As the major religions understand it God IS omnipotent.
This paradox demonstrates that he clearly IS NOT.
If God clearly is not OMNIPOTENT he is NOT God.
RichardFogarty86 4 years ago
I'm not a Christian, but I don't think this is a great argument.
A Christian can simply respond "OK, so God is omnipotent, with the sole exception of His inability to defeat His own omnipotency."
So fine, he wouldn't be omnipotent in the strictest definition of the word, but he would still be able to do anything other than defeast his own impotency.
lichtarbeiter 4 years ago
too has two o's
TeaSpoon2008 4 years ago
The Stone Paradox is a classic straw man way. While an interesting intelectual excersize it does not prove anything. God is not a being like you or me so the paramaters you set are not valid.
mjcrawford23 4 years ago
If any atheist reads the bible he or she could see that the reason for accomplishing a task "in God's name or approved by God" in the bible is to advance Gods kingdom. The sense that God can do anything IS ONLY IN the context of advancing his kingdom.. AND perfection will always advance in the context of perfection
snapman218 4 years ago
A person with average intelligence that wants to continue living can think "gee, there is a knife there i better stab myself with it so i will die" is contradicting his or her logic. God is limited in the sense that he is unlimited. he is limited because he is not STUPID and IS UNLIMITED because HE IS INTELLIGENT!
snapman218 4 years ago
If God were to create a stone so heavy he couldn't lift it he would break the definition of omnipotent. God would enfeeble himself and thus disproving God knew everything but since he does he wouldn't even consider this because ... well i think its obvious ...
snapman218 4 years ago
The answer is simple. There is no omnipotent god, and nor is there a god of any kind.
Omnipotancy is a flawed word. It represents an abstract concept that, by definition creates the problem you described. The word confounds itself, by definition.
A more practical approach is to assume that EVERYTHING is limited. Some things, however are so immense that they are difficult to quantify. But everything IS limited. At least, everything we can currently observe in the physical world.
paulmarko 4 years ago
Suppose God can define all "variables" of a rock. He can create as heavy a rock as he likes (a rock with as high a value for "weight" as he likes). If he is omnipotent, there is no limit on how much he can lift. So he can create as heavy a rock as he likes, but he can lift it if he likes. There needn't be an attribute "GodCanLiftThis = true/false" for a rock, only weight. Kinda like division by zero. It does not exist.
rlwb 4 years ago
There is a flaw to this logic. First of the defintion of Omipotent is "having all the power there is or will be". In other words God is all the power but God can only be God. God can't not be God the same way God can't make a circle not a circle. Yes even God has limits.
spheresus 4 years ago
Exactly (directed at Vexamatix)
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
not sure if you understand n-dimentional space
but keeping it simple... a statement can be both true and false in the eyes of an omnipotent beeing. That's what omnipotence is all about. I'm actualy a non believer but that doesn't change the fact that this is a very simple problem for modern science and logic.
Keep to simpler things... try to imagine infinity... once you can imagine that we can talk about omnipotence :o)
PROdotes 4 years ago
And I don't see what n-dimensional space has to do with it, we're not talking about simplexes or hyperspheres here. Plus I haven't heard anything that would allow a statement or concept in n-dimensional space to be true and false. Only thing I can think of that would come close would be something like a Multiverse theory assuming we're talking about multi-domain universes & that reality is different outside our own Hubble limit. Way to complicated for a question with an answer we'll never know
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
like i said... the logic is flawed... it ignores the definition of omnipotency...
this question has been around for over 100 years and it has already been solved... i'm just telling you the answer that someone smarter then you and me came up with...
no, it's not possible for a human to even grasp it... don't try :o)
PROdotes 4 years ago
PROdotes: Sounds like your saying the *question* can't be true because God is omnipotent, i.e. God is omnipotent, meaning he can do both. Thas not it, you're restating the definition of omnipotence. The question is "can he create a stone to heavy for him to lift?" both answers deny he is omnipotent. I gave the definition at the beginning said "assume this is true," I wasnt saying "give God the ability to do the logically impossible" If you define omnipotence differently, maybe there's an issue.
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
Yes, the answer is no, God could not create a rock so heavy than He, Himself could not lift it, but let's see the explaination why. God is infinite and eternal, for God not being able to lift the rock, the rock would have to pass infinity and eternity, now how is that possible? And it is impossible for material objects to be infinite, God cannot do what is actually impossible like creating a 2 sided triangle or a married bachelor.
Benespada 4 years ago
So if God cannot do what we regard as physically impossible then again, he is not omnipotent.
xXxCondomBoyxXx 4 years ago
One of the oldest logical problems...
The answer...
Yes too both... he can create the stone and he can lift it...
It's the question that's flawed since it ignores the definition of omnipotency
PROdotes 4 years ago
lol, how about, can god make himself unomnipotent?
appppppppple 4 years ago
I'm a pretty staunch atheist, but I disapprove of your circular logic. I'd go with something more along the lines of 'The bible says the world is 6000 years old...' other than a logical twist.
Blubb3r3ng3l 4 years ago
That statement doesn't disprove God, like the stone paradox tries to, discredit it maybe but not disprove. Plus using that as evidence wouldn't do much good against someone who believes the Bible is fact. There is no right or wrong answer here, you simply cannot disprove or prove God exists. The paradox is simply just one way of thinking.
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
Check out this miracle sign God gave me...
profoundproductions. co. uk/ ANGEL.jpg
There is a really good story about that, which I will post online soon, but long story short, that statue wasnt bought by me, or placed by me, or placed knowing there would b a light there, that light is rarely on, etc etc. Yet after praying for an angel to be revealed to me, that was lit up, it was one of the most, if not the most amazing experience of my life.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
I've similar experiences without praying. If you look for something you'll find it, or notice things that might fit into your belief. It's like the "stop light" theory; you only remember the red lights and not the red (especially if you're in a hurry).
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
so if i look for an eliphant driving a mini I'll find it? No. Therefore your statement is wrong, it should be "if you look for something that is there, you'll find it" but if the chances are so vastly slim, but you find something that is never usually there, there is more to it then just looking.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
I know it can be hard to find him, its easy not to believe, we r a fallen-creation, more in-touch with Satan then God, we have become divided from God. I wish we were friends, as the easiest way for someone to find God, is through someone they trust. I wish you could trust me when I say, I know with every fiber of my being, God is real, he loves you and He has an amazing plan for your life. Then maybe you could start living the dream that God has for you.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
I know it can be hard to find him, its easy not to believe, we r a fallen-creation, more in-touch with Satan then God, we have become divided from God. I wish we were friends, as the easiest way for someone to find God, is through someone they trust. I wish you could trust me when I say, I know with every fiber of my being, God is real, he loves you and He has an amazing plan for your life. Then maybe you could start living the dream that God has for you.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
What if I was Satan?
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
I gave my heart to him and then as I started acting out my faith, doing things with trust in him, he leads me to amazing places, people and things. That I would never find by myself.
If you don't cry for joy and shout with passion every waking moment of your life, then you need God. Cause that's what God feel like.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
God is personal experience dude.
Difference between you and me is I can not accept standard belief in God and still find amazing places. Life's a journey; I like to be in charge of my own path.
Again, you have no evidence for a "loving" God other than your feeling. That's not fact.
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
I have also seen a miracle sign profoundproductions. co. uk/ ANGEL. jpg
(remove spaces)
I have only been a Christian for 3 months dude! Its truly unbelievable how mazing my journey with God is. You haven't even begun yet, that's why u deny his existence, u don't seem to want to know him, because u don't know what He is or what He does.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
But by far, the greatest evidence I have found for God, is God ^^ And how can you see, hear, experience God?
"seek and you will find"
"knock and the door will be answered to you"
"ask and you will receive"
If you don't look, you won't find.
That's why going to church means nothing. Religion means nothing.
The contents of your heart means everything. Doesn't matter who u r, what u do or where you come from. If you want o find God, you can.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
Wait, you don't go to church? You're Christian though right? I'm confused... What will you find? Of course if you look for YOUR God you'll find it. It's called "faith" (I have no religious faith, I question nearly everything by nature) This is not evidence for God.
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
It took me 7 years of discussing God before I actually started listening, 7 years to become wise enough to not get carried away with what humans think they know. 7 years to realize we know nothing. Then I finally opened up my mind to other possibilities and started looking for evidence to support the existence of God. I have found what they claim is Noah's ark, the Ark of the Covenant, the blood of Christ, along with many amazing statistics involved with Intelligent Design.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
We do know nothing yet you're claiming all these things are "real" Noah's Ark, the Ark of the Covenant, the blood of Christ... I'm really confused by your reasoning. Intelligent Design is bullshit, created for the sole purpose of refuting evolution. I wrote this paper on it, I'll find it and tell you some of the stuff I found.
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
"It's simple "heroic" method of writing"
You know they were expecting Jesus? The one true Messiah, Saviour of mankind, Lamb of God, the one true hero ^^ So yeh, its no wonder they wanted others to be Jesus, they were waiting for the Messiah, so when they didn't see him, they tried to make him from other people, that why you had so many fake Messiahs in those days.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
Just because they expected him doesn't make him the son of God or perfect. He appealed to the vast majority, the meek (I think). People still believed in other "fake messiahs" when Jesus was around. No one could prove he was the "real" son of God or not, people just thought that due to some outside influence. Also, his miracles could have been simple illusions or magic by today's standards. For people wanting to believe so badly, they'd be works of God.
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
You seriously think 'a man' could show such love in the face of such hate? A man could never be tricked by the wise and intellectual, never made a mistake? That's simply not possible, you can't say he was just man, no man could be so perfect, so wise, so loving.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
I don't remember saying "I don't believe it because its been translated so many times," I was just using that as evidence for doubt.
Jesus did those things in the stories but other than those stories there is no evidence to suggest that he was the guy most today believe him to be. Would you really respect him that much if he HAD made mistakes and HAD sinned?
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
"Would you really respect him that much if he HAD made mistakes and HAD sinned?"
No way! If he had, he wouldn't be the Son of God or Saviour of mankind.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
So what you are saying is, if Jesus did sin, had flaws, made mistakes, etc. you would not respect him at all? Even if he did bring peace to mankind, give people hope for years, and bring ethics to the people? That's strange... Him having flaws is not evidence against him being the son of God either btw. God isn't sin free or perfect, he "murders," allows catastrophe to happen, does "unfair" things. All this means is merely that he wasn't perfect, he was after all human by some standard.
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
It's simple "heroic" method of writing. You can see it put into action in many ancient texts. Babylonians say that Gilgamesh was 2 thirds God and one third Man, had a perfect body, and did superhuman things. Beowulf tore the arm off Grendel without a sword and swam miles in full battle armor. Of course these things aren't the same as living a life without sinning but it all has to do with how society at that point in time envisions a hero.
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
Also; because society "envisions a hero" that is not evidence against Jesus (as u seem to be putting it), it is actually evidence for him as they all knew and expected a Saviour, a hero. If no one wanted to see a Saviour then that would be evidence against him.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
It's evidence against the image of Jesus being sin-free, son of God, etc. People would depict him as being the time period's perfect hero. If he was just some guy that brought peace to a land, example, he'd be like a past President whose policy would fade from the public mind after some number of years. If it was the son of God that brought the peace, then his "policy" would be remembered for centuries after.
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
You truly no nothing about the man, only what others thought or believed him to be. Other's perspectives/writings are not evidence for him being the son of God or perfect. And wasn't the New Testament written a good number of years after he died? Information could have changed SO dramatically in that period of time.
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
Shakespeare changed all that with the tragic hero, part of the reason we see flawed heroes in today's literature, all undergoing some internal struggle, Guy Montag (Fahrenheit 451), Ender Wiggin (Ender's Game), Bernard Marx (Brave New World). These heroes are a far cry from Jesus in terms of the live they live. However, in today's society we tend to view a hero as someone who is far from perfect, made mistakes and overcame their own demons for the good of mankind or whatever.
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
it is proven to be at the very least 98% accurate in its translation and that final 2% won't change the meaning of even one verse, only a slight modification of a word at most. So saying such things is simply no excuse and is ignorant. Sorry if that's blunt, but that's the way it is, straight up.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
U say u were a Christian 12 years? how come I know that after 3 months and u dont? Your statement is nothing more then another lie from the Devil.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
how u can turn your back on Jesus after what he did for you, I will never ever know. Please tell me what HE did to make you do that, or is it just that someone else did/said something to you? or was it something u did to yourself after being told something? Whatever it was or whoever it was, it wasn't Jesus, yet he is the one you choose to abandon, u just just so lucky that God is so forgiving, cause if that was me, I would never accept u back. What did happen though? i'm curious
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
You're right btw I was never fully Christian, it was just something I had to do because my parents said so. I never saw the point, and again, it seemed completely archaic to me. Nothing happened dude, it was a choice I made. Jesus was a great man yeah, but that's it, just a man. That's my opinion. Period.
It's been 7 years now dude since I "gave up" christianity, 7 fucking amazing years. I don't need "your" God to be happy. My version suits me just fine.
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
JUST A MAN? You seriously think 'just a man' could do what he did? You seriously think 'a man' could live a sin free life? Never lie, steal, commit adultery, hate, covet, etc? Volunteer to be crucified? Show love and forgiveness to His evil tormentors after they brutally beat him as they did?
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
just go for it, check out that video, then check out looktojesus com
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
Honestly dude, that Case for a Creator video is serious Christian propaganda. I spent the first 12 years of my life as a Christian and my experience was not a positive one, which is why I am no longer Christian. That was probably one of the best decisions in my life. Videos and websites like that and your views aren't going to change my mind just as my views or my videos won't change yours.
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
u were never a Christian, I spent 26 years being lost and you would never be SO STUPID as to choice a life without God, If you knew God. Excuse me being blunt, but that is seriously the most stupid thing u could ever do, don't be a fool, don't listen to the lies of the Devil. I lived 26 years without God and its hell, if you want to find that out for yourself, be my guest, but you will be a fool.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
Besides, its the most fascinating subject their is to study, what could be more exciting then searching for evidence of a God!? searching for how EVERYTHING began. Get into it, you wont regret it, check out case for a creator on youtube.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
You may think he's not the Son of God, but that doesn't make him just a man, fact is, he is the Son of God and the most important decision of your life is being made without even researching the matter. You can take Christianity lightly if you want, but it will be the biggest mistake of your life.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
actually he was right, its 100,000 light years. But anyway, all this is proving is that you are seeking God, but don't know what questions to ask. I suggest you save yourself some time and get some answers rather then wastering time on trivial questions.
Check out looktojesus com, go through the steps, then click the 30 day guide on the home page. I'm currently doing it and wish I had at the start, it would of saved me a lot of hassle and even hardship.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
My bad the distance from the Large and Small Magellanic clouds is 200,000 light years.
Thanks but no thanks, Jesus was a great man yeah but the son of God? I think not. Besides, whose to say the Bible isn't just a work of fiction?
Modern structured religions are archaic in my opinion. Religion is a personal experience and should be treated as such without people or documents telling you what to do and what to think.
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
"whose to say the Bible isn't just a work of fiction?" Everyone who knows anything about history ^^ There is no rock solid proof that EVERYTHING in the Bible is true, but if u r asking, "wats to say THE WHOLE THING isn't fiction?" they u need to start studying, as there is no doubt, either with believers or non-believers that its not just fiction.
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
There is no doubt that Beowulf or The Epic of Gilgamesh isn't all fiction either. Both have some historical accuracy and tell tales of supposedly real people but you don't see people believing everything said in those texts. Trust me dude, the Bible should not be taken as the word of God, especially after the amount of translations it has undergone.
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
"especially after the amount of translations it has undergone." lol dude, you obviously dont know anything about the Bible, its the most accurately and thoroughly and accurately translated document in all of history, just download some Bible software and it will tell u how many thousands upon thousands upon thousands of times each word has been check (each time by a different person)
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago
I don't care how accurate it's been translated. Translation from one language to another doesn't always work. One word might not mean the same thing, imply different meaning, have a different tone, yadda yadda yadda. That becomes irrelevant though when you take into account the reader has to interpret the writing and it will mean different things to one person than another.
FloatingHatFilms 4 years ago
Your right, the meanings can change (slightly), as we don't have enough words to describe everything. But the statement of "I don't believe it because its been translated so many times" Is routed in a lie from Satan, there is no document more thoroughly checked then the Bible,
fromfictiontofact 4 years ago