Well the question isn't whether it's torture or not. Waterboarding is simply emblematic of the much larger debate over torture. But let's get it out of the way: waterboarding is torture. That's a fact. Anything forced upon a person that they can't endure for 10 seconds without begging for mercy is obviously torture. I challenge anyone to find a better definition for torture than that. OK... now that that childish debate is settled, let's get to the real issue: should we torture.
Here's where things get complicated, because we were torturing ppl years before Bush entered office. The difference in the pre-Bush era was that is was only used sparingly, was conducted only by experienced professionals, and was generally reserved for the worst of the worst. So while we might have tortured Bin Laden in the pre-Bush era, but we wouldn't have tortured his cab driver (yes that actually happened).
But does torture work? Yes and no. Yes - in that it can get someone to tell you what you want to know. No - in that it can get someone to tell you what you want to HEAR.
Remember the Bush administration's claims about Iraqi officials meeting up with Al Qaeda in Europe? They said they had "confirmation" that it happened. So where did that confirmation come from? Khalid Sheik Muhammed, aka the 9-11 mastermind. He admitted it after being waterboarded. And, yes, it was total bullshit.
That's what happens when you mass produce torture: quality control goes out the window. It's was amateur hour everywhere. The few pros we did have refused to take part in it because they knew it was gonna be a fiasco. The "experts" training people were SERE instructors who'd never actually tortured anyone in their entire lives.
Torture is like that oddly-shaped gadget in the back of your toolbox that you maybe used once 10 years ago. It's not the hammer or screwdriver or ratchet. Yeah, you don't want to get rid of it because you might need it some day, but 99.99% of the time there's a better tool for the job.
Waterboarding is NOT torture. If you want to know what the Iraqis did to some British soldiers, read Bravo Two Zero by Andy McNab. He describes being physically beaten until he passed out and woke back up on the interrogation chair. That was a daily occurrence for him too. The Iraqis also made him clean up a toilet with his hand and and lick it. What do you think is worse; passing out from oxygen deprivation (waterboarding) or to pass out from getting crowd stomped and licking your poop.
I like wakeboarding, skimboarding and surfing maybe i should givewaterboarding a shot.
Dude honestly u siad it yourself in the first slide. " Subject (FEELS) close to drowning, death. but is not actualy drowning mind overm mater dude. maybe if these people would agree and help save lifes we wouldent be such dicks to them but seriously if there being gay like that, well fuck them.
Waterboarding: "to induce the feeling or sense of drowning." Nothing that any kid at the local neighborhood pool when I was growing up, didn't at some time experience when the bully would hold you under the water until you experienced that "feeling or sense of drowning." And he wasn't trying to gather information in order to save lives. So, does that, in some way help you decide? Waterboarding is no more tortureous than that. Besides, it's for a good cause.
How dare you people presume to live under the umbrella of freedom that we provide for you, then question the manner that we use to provide it. If you are ungrateful for what we soldiers, sailors, and airmen do to protect your bitch ass, then pack up your shit and MOVE TO MEXICO!
Torture is when the terrorists cut the head off our American journalist. What I cant understand is how we Americans are still so laxed when it pertains to the safety of their country and citizens.
Torture is an ignorant outdated tactic that put's US soldiers at extreme risk if they are captured. The other problem with torture is instead of allowing themselves to be captured it causes combatants to fight to the death. This also results in the loss of more Americans lives. If the US Rangers who killed Pat Tillman had followed rules of engagement he would still be alive. He was unarmed waving his arms when he was shot yet no one was held responsible. Why shoot people during surrender!!!!!!
If done to the point where water gets into the lungs or causes asphyxiation, yes it's torture.
Waterboarding is more of an annoyance I think, like blasting Brittany Spears music 24 hrs a day. Any prisoner would say anything to stop it. This could create questionable information until it's corroborated.
Decent method I say. Could be psychologically harmful, but so is confinement itself.
Just watching random videos & saw this one. Waterboarding is torture & is not only wrong but just innefective. Torture doesn't ascertain the truth, it gets whatever the victim believes you want to hear. If a terrorist had info so important as to save lives, he'd pretend to break just so you stop the torture. Once you verify the info & find it false you're left with no choice but to stop the torture or to kill him - either fate he'd accept.
It doesn't matter whether its necessary or not its not legal! America is signed into the United Nations Convention Against Torture agreeing to never torture under any condition. And yes waterboarding is torture. How could you possibly define it any other way.
I can't believe you are even having to question whether or not waterboarding is torture!!! Come on! And no, torture is never a good thing, even if it is against terrorists. How can America say we represent the free world when we are subscribing to the same tactics as terrorists?
A true dilemma for those with a conscience. Let's dispense with this issue, for each shall answer to himself and his own conscience.
This leaves us the other half of your question. Is this going to help in the fight against terrorism? It is known that subjects of torture will say whatever you want to hear as soon as they figure out what that is. That actually makes torture counter-productive; it's results are disinformation and blow-back.
Your mother has been raped and mutilated. Unspeekable things were done to her as your father watched, then murdered in front of her. A person laughs at your grief because he knows who did it and thinks it was justified.Would you waterboard that person to find the culprit? yes or no
very honest. I admire that sir. Yes, waterboarding is torture. I don't think it should be done. I think we should do what the egyptians did after terrorists killed saddot. the hunted down their families and held them until the killers turned themselves in. What say you?
on that day in september, we all watched live as our families were murdered. the families in the towers.on the planes.the first responders. we then watched as others celebrated in the west bank and gaza-passing out candy to kids to add to the fun. and bin laden, admitting he planned it, celebrating it's success. my first reaction isn't a water board, it's a nuetron bomb.
And are you now satisfied that more than 100,000 innoncent Iraqi men, women and children have paid the price of what happened when some terrorists attacked America back in 2oo1
Annnd now after looking it up...anyone who looked it up and thinks it's not torture... you've got to be freaking kidding me. It can cause brain and lung damage as well as death.
I haven't looked up waterboarding yet, this is the first I've heard of it but the fact that people in America support torture has always sickened me. If we are going to keep preaching that we have the moral high ground we need to be better then that. Torture is not an effective way to extract true information, people may say whatever that can to get it to stop but that doesn't mean that the information is true.
well if the cia didnt destroy its tapes, we would know exactly what goes on. Waterboarding is torture, and it is not necessary, but is still a better method than than putting the Qu'ran in the toilet
Damn man, you've got to ask if it's okay to torture one man to save a thousand lives? Does the word torture matter? You're not even killing the terrorist, you're just making him hurt and panic. He'll get over it. Dead people won't. Stop hand wringing over freaking out-of-touch-with-reality loony leftists.
Thank you very much for your comment! Tell your friends about this video to encourage more input. I will be doing a follow-up video when I get enough comments. ~ Joseph
The Director of the CIA admitted that he was aware of the missing tapes and he said nothing about it. Not only that, there are documents showing that water-boarding was discussed at the highest levels of the Bush Administration. The Bush Administration is made up of a bunch of fascists. It is immaterial what others tell you. It is illegal.
Crickett, Thank you very much for your input. What about what i'm hearing about members of congress (both parties) seeing demonstrations after 911 and verbally approving it, even asking if it was tough enough? Do you know anything about that? Thanks for watching. ~ Joseph
It is torture. It is illegal. It is not American. America was never about torture. I'm 73 years young and I know what I'm talking about. The US signed on to the Geneva Conventions many many years ago. I've been watching the Congressional hearings on C-Span about torture. It is illegal. The tapes that the CIA destroyed showed the torturing of prisoners.
Well the question isn't whether it's torture or not. Waterboarding is simply emblematic of the much larger debate over torture. But let's get it out of the way: waterboarding is torture. That's a fact. Anything forced upon a person that they can't endure for 10 seconds without begging for mercy is obviously torture. I challenge anyone to find a better definition for torture than that. OK... now that that childish debate is settled, let's get to the real issue: should we torture.
Oofloom 1 year ago
Here's where things get complicated, because we were torturing ppl years before Bush entered office. The difference in the pre-Bush era was that is was only used sparingly, was conducted only by experienced professionals, and was generally reserved for the worst of the worst. So while we might have tortured Bin Laden in the pre-Bush era, but we wouldn't have tortured his cab driver (yes that actually happened).
Oofloom 1 year ago
But does torture work? Yes and no. Yes - in that it can get someone to tell you what you want to know. No - in that it can get someone to tell you what you want to HEAR.
Remember the Bush administration's claims about Iraqi officials meeting up with Al Qaeda in Europe? They said they had "confirmation" that it happened. So where did that confirmation come from? Khalid Sheik Muhammed, aka the 9-11 mastermind. He admitted it after being waterboarded. And, yes, it was total bullshit.
Oofloom 1 year ago
That's what happens when you mass produce torture: quality control goes out the window. It's was amateur hour everywhere. The few pros we did have refused to take part in it because they knew it was gonna be a fiasco. The "experts" training people were SERE instructors who'd never actually tortured anyone in their entire lives.
Oofloom 1 year ago
Torture is like that oddly-shaped gadget in the back of your toolbox that you maybe used once 10 years ago. It's not the hammer or screwdriver or ratchet. Yeah, you don't want to get rid of it because you might need it some day, but 99.99% of the time there's a better tool for the job.
Oofloom 1 year ago
Waterboarding is NOT torture. If you want to know what the Iraqis did to some British soldiers, read Bravo Two Zero by Andy McNab. He describes being physically beaten until he passed out and woke back up on the interrogation chair. That was a daily occurrence for him too. The Iraqis also made him clean up a toilet with his hand and and lick it. What do you think is worse; passing out from oxygen deprivation (waterboarding) or to pass out from getting crowd stomped and licking your poop.
WrexsouI 1 year ago
bring back the nuetron bomb so we can end torture. they all must die, that is what they understand and want. no?
blingdorkle 2 years ago
I like wakeboarding, skimboarding and surfing maybe i should givewaterboarding a shot.
Dude honestly u siad it yourself in the first slide. " Subject (FEELS) close to drowning, death. but is not actualy drowning mind overm mater dude. maybe if these people would agree and help save lifes we wouldent be such dicks to them but seriously if there being gay like that, well fuck them.
TangPolice 2 years ago
Waterboarding: "to induce the feeling or sense of drowning." Nothing that any kid at the local neighborhood pool when I was growing up, didn't at some time experience when the bully would hold you under the water until you experienced that "feeling or sense of drowning." And he wasn't trying to gather information in order to save lives. So, does that, in some way help you decide? Waterboarding is no more tortureous than that. Besides, it's for a good cause.
hatecruedeathroll 2 years ago
How dare you people presume to live under the umbrella of freedom that we provide for you, then question the manner that we use to provide it. If you are ungrateful for what we soldiers, sailors, and airmen do to protect your bitch ass, then pack up your shit and MOVE TO MEXICO!
ChicagoHobo 2 years ago
Torture is when the terrorists cut the head off our American journalist. What I cant understand is how we Americans are still so laxed when it pertains to the safety of their country and citizens.
awizeman 2 years ago
Torture is an ignorant outdated tactic that put's US soldiers at extreme risk if they are captured. The other problem with torture is instead of allowing themselves to be captured it causes combatants to fight to the death. This also results in the loss of more Americans lives. If the US Rangers who killed Pat Tillman had followed rules of engagement he would still be alive. He was unarmed waving his arms when he was shot yet no one was held responsible. Why shoot people during surrender!!!!!!
larry1369 2 years ago
If done to the point where water gets into the lungs or causes asphyxiation, yes it's torture.
Waterboarding is more of an annoyance I think, like blasting Brittany Spears music 24 hrs a day. Any prisoner would say anything to stop it. This could create questionable information until it's corroborated.
Decent method I say. Could be psychologically harmful, but so is confinement itself.
RodCornholio 3 years ago
Just watching random videos & saw this one. Waterboarding is torture & is not only wrong but just innefective. Torture doesn't ascertain the truth, it gets whatever the victim believes you want to hear. If a terrorist had info so important as to save lives, he'd pretend to break just so you stop the torture. Once you verify the info & find it false you're left with no choice but to stop the torture or to kill him - either fate he'd accept.
vcdaniels 3 years ago
couldnt that kill you??
tripinbawls 3 years ago
It doesn't matter whether its necessary or not its not legal! America is signed into the United Nations Convention Against Torture agreeing to never torture under any condition. And yes waterboarding is torture. How could you possibly define it any other way.
foosless 3 years ago
dude waterboarding feels like a massage
DunkinDonuts66 3 years ago
I can't believe you are even having to question whether or not waterboarding is torture!!! Come on! And no, torture is never a good thing, even if it is against terrorists. How can America say we represent the free world when we are subscribing to the same tactics as terrorists?
mscng2007 4 years ago
Joseph:
A true dilemma for those with a conscience. Let's dispense with this issue, for each shall answer to himself and his own conscience.
This leaves us the other half of your question. Is this going to help in the fight against terrorism? It is known that subjects of torture will say whatever you want to hear as soon as they figure out what that is. That actually makes torture counter-productive; it's results are disinformation and blow-back.
Thank you for encouraging this debate.
Guerakeen 4 years ago
well, ya see, they knew the answer before they asked. the waterboarding just crosses the t's and dot's the eye's.
blingdorkle 2 years ago
by the way, no international backlash against the egyptians for thier tactics. barely a historical footnote.
blingdorkle 4 years ago
yes or no to you sir.
Your mother has been raped and mutilated. Unspeekable things were done to her as your father watched, then murdered in front of her. A person laughs at your grief because he knows who did it and thinks it was justified.Would you waterboard that person to find the culprit? yes or no
blingdorkle 4 years ago
Wow...powerful scenerio. I probably would. Thanks for the comment bling. ~ Joseph
josephreedmusic 4 years ago
very honest. I admire that sir. Yes, waterboarding is torture. I don't think it should be done. I think we should do what the egyptians did after terrorists killed saddot. the hunted down their families and held them until the killers turned themselves in. What say you?
blingdorkle 4 years ago
on that day in september, we all watched live as our families were murdered. the families in the towers.on the planes.the first responders. we then watched as others celebrated in the west bank and gaza-passing out candy to kids to add to the fun. and bin laden, admitting he planned it, celebrating it's success. my first reaction isn't a water board, it's a nuetron bomb.
blingdorkle 4 years ago
And are you now satisfied that more than 100,000 innoncent Iraqi men, women and children have paid the price of what happened when some terrorists attacked America back in 2oo1
bobjudy7 3 years ago
Annnd now after looking it up...anyone who looked it up and thinks it's not torture... you've got to be freaking kidding me. It can cause brain and lung damage as well as death.
CrossKnights 4 years ago
I haven't looked up waterboarding yet, this is the first I've heard of it but the fact that people in America support torture has always sickened me. If we are going to keep preaching that we have the moral high ground we need to be better then that. Torture is not an effective way to extract true information, people may say whatever that can to get it to stop but that doesn't mean that the information is true.
CrossKnights 4 years ago
Waterboarding is NOT necsessary!
There are other ways !!!
vtolo 4 years ago
well if the cia didnt destroy its tapes, we would know exactly what goes on. Waterboarding is torture, and it is not necessary, but is still a better method than than putting the Qu'ran in the toilet
docakh 4 years ago
Damn man, you've got to ask if it's okay to torture one man to save a thousand lives? Does the word torture matter? You're not even killing the terrorist, you're just making him hurt and panic. He'll get over it. Dead people won't. Stop hand wringing over freaking out-of-touch-with-reality loony leftists.
bobviously 4 years ago
Thank you very much for your comment! Tell your friends about this video to encourage more input. I will be doing a follow-up video when I get enough comments. ~ Joseph
josephreedmusic 4 years ago
not torture. not, nonetheless, acceptable.
clemtoe 4 years ago
The Director of the CIA admitted that he was aware of the missing tapes and he said nothing about it. Not only that, there are documents showing that water-boarding was discussed at the highest levels of the Bush Administration. The Bush Administration is made up of a bunch of fascists. It is immaterial what others tell you. It is illegal.
Crickettedog 4 years ago
Crickett, Thank you very much for your input. What about what i'm hearing about members of congress (both parties) seeing demonstrations after 911 and verbally approving it, even asking if it was tough enough? Do you know anything about that? Thanks for watching. ~ Joseph
josephreedmusic 4 years ago
It is torture. It is illegal. It is not American. America was never about torture. I'm 73 years young and I know what I'm talking about. The US signed on to the Geneva Conventions many many years ago. I've been watching the Congressional hearings on C-Span about torture. It is illegal. The tapes that the CIA destroyed showed the torturing of prisoners.
Crickettedog 4 years ago 2