As Corey said at one point - it's all about the economic relationships, but not in the classical marxist sense, as it was described in this vid. Legalised prostitution may sound like liberal-minded common-sense, and a way to keep women safe, but in fact it's the exact opposite... as I explain in the various vids on my channel. Feel free to check them out, and comment :-)
Man, great freaking video. Is that professoranton's wife? I think the problem with prostitution is that it is totally exploitative for both the prostitute and the john. Neither really cares about each other, but if we got rid of the money aspect what would happen? Who knows, actually.
The patriarchal nuclear family is both the primary and the sole reason for why the *PURCHASING* of sex is criminalized. Even if you attempt to find a religious justification from a holy book, the family unit is still what is at stake. Arguments on the other side, (of selling), will be framed in danger to the woman, exploitation, (marxism), etc. Only in Sweden with its "Swedish Victim Rule" have we seen a kind of economic argument about how the "demand furnishes the supply". There johns are
Also, the flip side, concerning sex-positive feminists.
Sex-positive feminists aren't always the sterotypical "pretty girls" either. I can think of *many* sex-positive feminists who are middle age or elderly and are way past the "young and hot" phase of their life. Also, more than a few butch lesbians, who are coming from a wholly unconventional standard of beauty.
I do think radical feminists often come across as unattractive (there are clear exceptions; Antiquelens, for example), but is that a matter of cause or effect? Its true that a large part of beauty is sheer genetic endowment, but a lot of it is "upkeep". One thing that radical feminist ideology allows a woman to do is "let herself go" and feel OK about it. If they're really radical about it, they might even feel obliged to do so.
Radical feminists are ugly? Thanks! haha, just kiddin. But srsly - when I hear that statement, coming from a rad fem perspective - it only confirms how I feel. Cuz I'm not ugly - and if I AM ugly - it's only because I'm not wearing a bunch of make-up and propping up my tits to look like an asscrack. There's something totally sad with how we are expected to distort almost every inch of our bodies to be deemed attractive.
I DO think that marriage has a hand in creating stigma for prostitution because very often people cheat on their spouses with sex workers. It's sort of like the stigma around being a mistress or the other guy. I don't think sex workers can get rid of that resentment - unless they all agree to completely avoid anyone married (unless the married couple is in an open marriage).
I also think that TV really paints an UGLY characterization of sex workers.
1. You seem to be saying that anyone looks at statistics for countries which have legalized prostitution and are now having to rethink their strategies is somehow a "radical" feminist. To me this has NOTHING to do with feminism [radical or other wise, but with human rights
.
2. Also, is it fair to stereotype those who advocate legalization as "hot". Those who object as ugly? Crude generalization?
Oh, and before someone tells me an an old hag. TRUE [Con't]
[Con't] BUT I'm not advocating for prohibition. I'm saying countries which have legalize prostitution have experienced serious problems, and most [Australia, Germany, the Netherlands] are rethinking their original strategies.
So I'm not on the prohibition side of the argument, but I have NOT noticed the great gulf in relative attractiveness between those who are for and those who opposed to legalization...and even if there were, how is that germane to validity of their arguments exactly?
@2bsirius At it's face one can say attractiveness is not germane. But attractiveness can be used as an expression of power/control. One only has to look at the influence it has on peoples actions. It's leveraged by media on a large scale and by individuals on a small scale. When control and oppression are on the table for discussion attractiveness is on the table too. It's fair to not make generalizations about people. Yet, denial of it's sociological role is unwise. It does matter.
@2bsirius I think a good branching off point for examination on the aspect of control within the confines of sex work would be to ask this question.
What form of power is being exercised? Money or good looks?
Some may say money is being used to control someone to their detriment. Others may say that attractiveness is being used to control someone's use of money. It is likely both. Those with lots of money transact with the best looking people. *Marxists enter stage left.
Yes, if there is a platform from which all have access to equal money (mathematically equated basic living requirements) -- we will have 'free sex.' Sex for money is unacceptable -- if you look at it closely you will see how prostitution links to sexual abuse. All the 'issues' of the world is due to inequality. The inevitable equal money system will facilitate the equalization of humanity.
Seems to me the male insertion into the woman is a basis for the male dominating the relationship. I think it is genetic, of course that can be magnified or reduced socially. So the domination aspect of boss/employee, leader/group relationship could be somewhat equivalent. I guess slavery would be analagous to rape, etc. I think this domination issue is at the heart of many problems and is difficult to tackle, since I think it has an evolutionary foundation.
Y'all need to look at "liberation theology" to better understand the marxist liberation stuff... well, to understand all of the "liberation" stuff.... It sheds a lot of light on why the "liberation" stops at issues of sexuality and alternate realities (drug use) ...
I like this. You two are always authentic in your discussions, something I feel is lost today. No demonizing, no belittlement, I love it. Does your friend/wife/whatever have a channel or does she just make appearances in your videos?
Its the old silk purse debate that has been discussed for thousands of years, its great when popular films distil these questions in people these debates then we here these discussions its very good. I'd like to see this lined up with a manner of outputs of speakers, the pope, Chavez, high art fans, bankers, teachers and office girls, not forgetting legal working girls. I'm a big fan of the pole dancers but cannot afford the drinks. Contrastingly this bubble is just another distraction.
Mademoiselle, thank you for giving this discussion a new and much more intellectually refined view. It was very helpful in understanding the sociological context of so many interactions we take for granted.
all this talk reminds me of Aldous Huxley's Brave New World. there is load of references to free love, gender equality......
MrBomuch 2 months ago
Comment removed
mickGPN 6 months ago
As Corey said at one point - it's all about the economic relationships, but not in the classical marxist sense, as it was described in this vid. Legalised prostitution may sound like liberal-minded common-sense, and a way to keep women safe, but in fact it's the exact opposite... as I explain in the various vids on my channel. Feel free to check them out, and comment :-)
mickGPN 6 months ago
Man, great freaking video. Is that professoranton's wife? I think the problem with prostitution is that it is totally exploitative for both the prostitute and the john. Neither really cares about each other, but if we got rid of the money aspect what would happen? Who knows, actually.
natedaug1 1 year ago
..just want to add that i love how you interrupt eachother and get passionate about the issue! :-) This dialogs are great!
sapodotroposo 1 year ago
SPOT ON! Economical equality is one important key
sapodotroposo 1 year ago
The patriarchal nuclear family is both the primary and the sole reason for why the *PURCHASING* of sex is criminalized. Even if you attempt to find a religious justification from a holy book, the family unit is still what is at stake. Arguments on the other side, (of selling), will be framed in danger to the woman, exploitation, (marxism), etc. Only in Sweden with its "Swedish Victim Rule" have we seen a kind of economic argument about how the "demand furnishes the supply". There johns are
otonanoC 1 year ago
Also, the flip side, concerning sex-positive feminists.
Sex-positive feminists aren't always the sterotypical "pretty girls" either. I can think of *many* sex-positive feminists who are middle age or elderly and are way past the "young and hot" phase of their life. Also, more than a few butch lesbians, who are coming from a wholly unconventional standard of beauty.
iamcuriousblue 1 year ago
Re: Radical feminists and appearance
I do think radical feminists often come across as unattractive (there are clear exceptions; Antiquelens, for example), but is that a matter of cause or effect? Its true that a large part of beauty is sheer genetic endowment, but a lot of it is "upkeep". One thing that radical feminist ideology allows a woman to do is "let herself go" and feel OK about it. If they're really radical about it, they might even feel obliged to do so.
iamcuriousblue 1 year ago
This video is so much better than 95% of the videos being made on prostitution.
FistfulofDicks 1 year ago
Radical feminists are ugly? Thanks! haha, just kiddin. But srsly - when I hear that statement, coming from a rad fem perspective - it only confirms how I feel. Cuz I'm not ugly - and if I AM ugly - it's only because I'm not wearing a bunch of make-up and propping up my tits to look like an asscrack. There's something totally sad with how we are expected to distort almost every inch of our bodies to be deemed attractive.
cannibalcountry 1 year ago
I DO think that marriage has a hand in creating stigma for prostitution because very often people cheat on their spouses with sex workers. It's sort of like the stigma around being a mistress or the other guy. I don't think sex workers can get rid of that resentment - unless they all agree to completely avoid anyone married (unless the married couple is in an open marriage).
I also think that TV really paints an UGLY characterization of sex workers.
cannibalcountry 1 year ago
I think this is the best video I've seen from this channel, good one. You did interrupt her too much though... :-P
sachamm 1 year ago
@sachamm - blame the patriarchy! haha.
cannibalcountry 1 year ago
Requests for clarity from Valerie:
1. You seem to be saying that anyone looks at statistics for countries which have legalized prostitution and are now having to rethink their strategies is somehow a "radical" feminist. To me this has NOTHING to do with feminism [radical or other wise, but with human rights
.
2. Also, is it fair to stereotype those who advocate legalization as "hot". Those who object as ugly? Crude generalization?
Oh, and before someone tells me an an old hag. TRUE [Con't]
2bsirius 1 year ago
[Con't] BUT I'm not advocating for prohibition. I'm saying countries which have legalize prostitution have experienced serious problems, and most [Australia, Germany, the Netherlands] are rethinking their original strategies.
So I'm not on the prohibition side of the argument, but I have NOT noticed the great gulf in relative attractiveness between those who are for and those who opposed to legalization...and even if there were, how is that germane to validity of their arguments exactly?
2bsirius 1 year ago
@2bsirius At it's face one can say attractiveness is not germane. But attractiveness can be used as an expression of power/control. One only has to look at the influence it has on peoples actions. It's leveraged by media on a large scale and by individuals on a small scale. When control and oppression are on the table for discussion attractiveness is on the table too. It's fair to not make generalizations about people. Yet, denial of it's sociological role is unwise. It does matter.
alowlyapprentice 1 year ago
@2bsirius I think a good branching off point for examination on the aspect of control within the confines of sex work would be to ask this question.
What form of power is being exercised? Money or good looks?
Some may say money is being used to control someone to their detriment. Others may say that attractiveness is being used to control someone's use of money. It is likely both. Those with lots of money transact with the best looking people. *Marxists enter stage left.
alowlyapprentice 1 year ago
Yes, if there is a platform from which all have access to equal money (mathematically equated basic living requirements) -- we will have 'free sex.' Sex for money is unacceptable -- if you look at it closely you will see how prostitution links to sexual abuse. All the 'issues' of the world is due to inequality. The inevitable equal money system will facilitate the equalization of humanity.
AGENTofNURU 1 year ago
Seems to me the male insertion into the woman is a basis for the male dominating the relationship. I think it is genetic, of course that can be magnified or reduced socially. So the domination aspect of boss/employee, leader/group relationship could be somewhat equivalent. I guess slavery would be analagous to rape, etc. I think this domination issue is at the heart of many problems and is difficult to tackle, since I think it has an evolutionary foundation.
loveisallneed 1 year ago
Great vid!
MetaCraken 1 year ago
Y'all need to look at "liberation theology" to better understand the marxist liberation stuff... well, to understand all of the "liberation" stuff.... It sheds a lot of light on why the "liberation" stops at issues of sexuality and alternate realities (drug use) ...
FeministWhore 1 year ago
wasn't so bad. it would be irrational if someone didn't happen to be the loudest.
anarchy saves! utopia makes bank loans....
jogayot 1 year ago
I like this. You two are always authentic in your discussions, something I feel is lost today. No demonizing, no belittlement, I love it. Does your friend/wife/whatever have a channel or does she just make appearances in your videos?
pink3y 1 year ago
What you are saying is that without happy stable relationships, you wouldn't have a stigma on prostitution?
maganz 1 year ago
Its the old silk purse debate that has been discussed for thousands of years, its great when popular films distil these questions in people these debates then we here these discussions its very good. I'd like to see this lined up with a manner of outputs of speakers, the pope, Chavez, high art fans, bankers, teachers and office girls, not forgetting legal working girls. I'm a big fan of the pole dancers but cannot afford the drinks. Contrastingly this bubble is just another distraction.
robbwindow 1 year ago
So, for or against?
DiwataMan2 1 year ago
I love watching her facial expressions when she reacts to things he says...lol.
Divinity33372 1 year ago
Mademoiselle, thank you for giving this discussion a new and much more intellectually refined view. It was very helpful in understanding the sociological context of so many interactions we take for granted.
InfectedDaemon 1 year ago