What is an osteopathic physician (DO)?

[ciuck]

omt could also be refeared to "orthopaedic manipulative therapy", that is a specialization of physical therapists. In europe ostheopaty is not a medical profession, so a DO is'nt a physician but it's a different profession, like physical therapist, nurse, dentist, occupational therapist ecc. ecc.

[styleclash1]

Dr. John Doe, DO, Pathology ... is a preferred physician for many dead patients and tumor cells, something about his holistic approach ;)

[reversEngiener]

Nguyen Do, DO... lolololol

[DrATStillDO]

Glad to see this on YouTube.

[lifeson46]

D.O.'s are amazing, their manipulation techniques are fantastic

[LegPains]

@lifeson46

do they treat back disc issues ?

[lifeson46]

@LegPains definately. I had a severe back strain in 1999, i couldn't walk or stand. My ex wife dragged me to a chiropractor. After 2 months of him cracking me i still couldn't stand straight and the pain was excruciating. I went to a local DO on my neighbors recommendation. I had 3 visits, the first one -pain decrease 90% and I could stand staright, 2 more and I was pretty much cured, D.O.'s are amazing

[LegPains]

@lifeson46

thanks for the feedback, what specifically did the DO treat you with ?

[lifeson46]

@LegPains i had a severe back strain, I am a Massage therapist and I do not know what the guy did. He worked on my cranium and my back. He hit one place in particular and said I had a severe bowel reflex.? I dont know but whatever it was the pain melted away in minutes

[LegPains]

@lifeson46

But you're saying he simply used his hands on you and that was all he did for treatment ?

My situation is i have severe pain in my Legs due to X rays showing my Spine is mis aligned in various places due to overwork and improper lifting of heavy objects many years ago. and my L 5 S1 disc is slightly herniated and protruding outward. all of this is causing Pinched Nerves that lead down to my legs .

[lifeson46]

@LegPains i see. Have yo ever heard otf a treatment called Rolfing? It is a very deep form of bodywork that actually correcta the way the body moves in relation to gravity..it is incredible chec k it out, you willfind it on youtube

[LegPains]

@lifeson46

Given what i said about my L5 S1 disc and what my X rays show , do you still think an Osteopath would be able to help me ?

ive heard of Rolfing but dont know much about it

[lifeson46]

@LegPains dude I honestly dont know and can only share my experience. actually I did have an mri some years ago and it did show that i had a bulge in my lumbars but as I am quite active my body seemed to assimilate it. I would talk to a DO about OMT and seriously look into Rolfing

[LegPains]

@lifeson46

what is OMT ?

[MadJoe11]

@LegPains OMT is Osteopathic Manipulative Treatment (or Technique) depends on who you ask and in what context.

[LegPains]

@lifeson46

Yes thats another thing i didnt mention , the MRI showed i have Straightening of my Lumbar lordosis which i think absolutely is a definite cause of the nerves in that  area being Pinched and pressed

[LegPains]

@lifeson46

if Rolfing is just another type of Massage  , i highly doubt it will reach deep enough to affect my condition as ive already tried Massage extensively and it has never helped my situation .

[LegPains]

@lifeson46

Just curious before you got cured from the DO, did you have an MRI on your back  and X rays ?

[lifeson46]

@LegPains had x rays taken by the chiropractor,why?

[LegPains]

@lifeson46

i dont understand the intent of your question, why wouldnt i want to have X rays taken ?

[lifeson46]

@LegPains I would not under any circumsatance have a chiropractor work on you...stay waya from 'em

[chilkatman]

All I know is that personally if I was in an osteopathic hospital and was not offered OMT with my medical care I would be very dissapointed. If they refused it to me I would be pretty nasty. If I went to a DO and had simple back pain and he did not consider OMT and just gave me drugs I would not go back.

[DarsowGolf]

I can stick my finger up your butt and fix your coccynx if you let me.

[chilkatman]

The botrtrom line is that Dos are fine and Do schools are great. Trouble as I see it is that most DOs say they are different but then don't practice OMT as their core methodology. A real DO goes to DO school and then hopefully does an OMT residency. A real DO gives OMT to all patients no matter what they have and treats them medically too. A real DO student reads AT Still and all the old books. Most Dos in practice are just medics even though they say they are different. That is the truth!

[zbjordan23]

A real DO is a physician who will use medication/perform surgery (ie. MD) AND when appropriate and necessary will use OMT. Dont tell me a DO HAS to do OMT. I know a Neurosurgeon and a Surgical Oncologist who is a DO...tell me why the heck they would use OMT...seriously..Osteopathic MEDICINE is MEDICINE...not OMT or Osteopathy!!!

[zbjordan23]

I have to take courses on opthamalogy, geriatrics, pathology, surgery...I dont ever plan on going into these fields, nor do I plan on ever using them in my practice but its good to know the basics of all the medical disciplines...same with OMT..it is a base of Osteopathic Medicine...doesnt mean I have to use it all the time.

[chilkatman]

OMT is not a "field" like opthamalogy. It is the root core of osteopathic practice. That is why it is called OSTEOPATHIC medicine. OMT is the core modality and medicine and surgery are adjunctive to it most of the time. If you don't use OMT all the time you will not master it. And hence it will not be worth doing at all. Not doing OMT as core methodology is a rejection of osteopathic philosophy. People look forward to hands on OMT at their regular visits. It is the osteopathic difference

[chilkatman]

Your example of the surgeon and the oncologist are fair examples. But I do think all patients who see a family osteopathic physician should be checked for lesions and be corrected on every visit. Outward symtoms are not the only indication for OMT. OMT is indicated when lesions are found. No matter what the patient presents with. When a person is sick lesions will almost always be found and must be corrected. In almost all cases of illness OMT is appropriate and necessary.

[zbjordan23]

sorry but OMT is a subspeciality in Osteopathic Medicine. When we go into residency, we go into Emergency Medicine, Surgery, Internal Med, Opthamology..etc. There are residencies (mostly family practice) that incorporate OMM into their progam. 98% of Residency programs do not incorporate OMT. 50% of DO's go into MD residency programs. I didnt want to be DO to use OMT as a first modality...I wanted to be an Emergency Physician with the extra knowledge of DO philosophy and OMT...

[zbjordan23]

You cant be an emergency physician and use OMT on patients coming into the ER. You cannot as an opthamologist even use OMT. OMT is pretty much left to family practice or PM&R. A cardiologist, Hepatologist...etc, will be using more evidence-based modalities to treat patients not OMT. To me OMT is NOT APPROPRIATE to use on ALL illnesses. It is limited to Musculoskeletal SD's. I am not using OMT to treat a gunshot wound, or a heart attack victim. That would be ridicolous.

[chilkatman]

"To me OMT is NOT APPROPRIATE to use on ALL illnesses". All patients no matter what there illness should have lesion correction. After your heart attack patient is stabilized and able to get out of bed they should have OMT in addition to their standard medical therapy. Osteopathic philosophy indicates that the problems in the musculskeletal system may be a contributing factor in the etiology of visceral dysfunction. DO philosophy treats the whole person. This dates back to AT Still.

[zbjordan23]

sorry but after a heart attack victim is brought in and stabilized, you cant sit there and do OMT treatments on him...you have to move on to the the next patient in line in the ER...Medicine is not always at some private clinic somewhere, in which you have ample time to do whatever it is you want.

[chilkatman]

I knw but when he is recovering in his room I believe daily OMT would be of tremendous benefit. Despite the fact that I feel it impacts health greatly people in the hospital are in a foreign enviornment and sometimes scared and weirded out by the whole process. Some hands on OMT can help keep the human connection established. At least that is how I would try and do it if I was a DO. If I was a patient in a DO hospital I would ask for it.

[zbjordan23]

After that victim is stabilized and then discharged, he can go to a DO himself that perfoms OMT if he wants. Not too many hospitals offer full body OMT treatment as they are very weary of getting sued and any nonconventional medical treatment is not encouraged in a hospital setting. Yes, you can do a rib rise now and then or maybe do some HVLA techniques, but as far as OMT being a normal everyday modality used on all patients coming into a hospital setting, it is just not practical or feasible.

[chilkatman]

"but as far as OMT being a normal everyday modality used on all patients coming into a hospital setting, it is just not practical or feasible." It may not be practical but I think it is feasible and would make folks a lot happier in the hospital. I think what has happened to osteopathic medicine is terrible despite the fact that you guys are great physicians. Just my opinion as a student of the history and philosophy of manual therapies. And the patient of an old DO.

[zbjordan23]

ok let me reframe...OMT is not "technically" a subspecialty..but it's use on a daily practical basis is dependent on the specialty of the physician. Like I said, a surgeon or opthamologist has no use for OMT. A family physician who can afford the time to do OMT on every single patient might. Most are just like MD's. I dont see a problem with that. Part of being a DO is not just omt. It's applying the DO principles of treating the "person" and not just the disease that is more important.

[chilkatman]

"A family physician who can afford the time to do OMT on every single patient might. Most are just like MD's. I dont see a problem with that." I see a big problem with that. If you study osteopathic philosophy it will be found that that musculoskeletal well being and whole health are intimatly related. In fact the relationship is by far more discussed than any other factor. What did AT Still do? I bet all his patients got OMT when they had the flu, heart problems, reflux and whatever.

[midnightcamel786]

osteopathic medical students have statistics almost the same as allopathic medical schools and MANY kids do not get into osteopathic schools as well. DOs are not osteopaths, which is the name for practitioners of only OMT in Europe. My stats? 33 (13, 10, 10 S), 3.65 gpa....i could clearly go to an allopathic school, but only applied to osteopathic ones! AT STILL IS MY HOMEBOY

[chilkatman]

If that is true then make sure when you graduate you put your money where you mouth is and practice osteopathic medicine. That means that you give ALL of your patients osteopathic manipulation no matter what is wrong with them. That is the vision of AT Still. Not just those with joint pain. And there is nothing wrong with calling yourself an "osteopath". Years ago in the US DOs gave meds, did surgery and manipulated and they were called osteopaths. Hope you practice real osteopathy.

[midnightcamel786]

OMM is a practice unique only to osteopathic physicians and is a tool in diagnosis. DOs are not DCs so shut your face.

[chilkatman]

I used to go to a real DO. He was an old man. When you went to his office he would exam you and then no matter what you had they would take you in this room and let you relax with a hot pack on your back. Then he would come in and do OMT. No matter what your presentation was . Cold, flu, heart problem, whatever. The patients loved going. It was a lot better than just seeing some regular physician. You truely felt better when you left. This is true osteopathic general practice.

[chilkatman]

Oh and I forgot to mention that the old DO I went to would also give you medication or what ever else you needed as well. OMT is not just a method of diagnosis. It is treatment as well. There is also a philosophy of osteopathic practice. In order to under stand the philosophy you need to spend a lot of time in osteopathic archives. Just because you go to a DO school does not mean you understand Osteopathic practice. You must get into the archives to do that. Have you done that?

[chilkatman]

Dcs are not DOs that is true. But if you objectively study the roots and progression of manual therapy you will find that present day practices DC and DO come from a common root. The technique line is a very blurry one. The side posture techniques chiros use are osteopathic moves for example. Not so many years ago DOs used to be called "rub doctors" by common folk. A real DO is a physician that practices osteopathic philosophy which incidently is not always fully evidence based.

[DrZzzzs]

A DC is definately NOT considered a full medical physician, as they are not required to complete a 4 year medical school curriculum like DOs and MDs.

[chilkatman]

Some DCs are pretty damn good. It depends where they went to school. In a good DC school the classes are more similar than you think to med school. Heart sounds , eye grounds, MRI studies are all the same thing no matter what school you are in. Either you know them or you don't. If a DC exams a patient, does labs, imaging ect and finds a malignancy and gets the patient the right care I would have to say he is a physician. If anything a lot of DCs are grossly over educated for their scope.

[zbjordan23]

I dont think DC's are physicians...they dont have full-scope of practice in medicine like DO and MD's do. I think DC's are limited to manipulative techniques.

[chilkatman]

Dc can also use physical therapy modalities, bracing, casting ect. They can use x ray, CT, MRI, Bone scan ect.

[lilears4]

Three types of physician... MD, DO and DC

[DOStudent]

I am a third year osteopathic medical student who chose DO over MD. Just to set the record straight, DOs can take the MD certification boards in addition to the DO certification boards and are accepted in to both DO and MD residencies across the country. MDs however CANNOT take the DO certification boards or attend DO residencies. DOs are just MDs with more training! Don't put down something you don't understand, instead educate yourself about what makes us different.

[weirdgirlwhotripsppl]

My brother is going to be the best DO in the world!!!!

[studentdoctor07]

mbastmbast,

DO bashing, and for that matter Carribean bashing as well, only hurts you. You'll change your mind when working alongside a DO.

[drvalidus]

I think DO's are great physicians.

[zbjordan23]

Mbast there are two types of legal medical doctors in the US and that is allopathic and Osteopathic. Students of both attend medical school so I am not sure what your getting at here. Many Osteopathic medical students did have allopathic medical school as their 1st choice, but both ways are fine for becoming a competent physician.

[opsc01]

Osteopathic medical schools are real medical schools. Their curriculum is statistically recognized as equivalent to MD medical schools plus additional training in manual manipulation.

[opsc01]

Osteopathic medical schools do tend to consider more applicants with non-traditional pre-medical than MD schools do. This allows DO schools to train physicians who are well rounded with varied life experience.

[opsc01]

Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine, just like MDs, attend medical school for a period of four years which includes clinical and classroom learning, plus up to 7 years of residency training. Osteopathic Medicine is a complete, professional health care that gives an added dimension to general medical practice. It is a science using proven medical knowledge and all accepted methods of preventing, diagnosing and treating illness and injury.

[opsc01]

Osteopathic Manipulative Treatment (OMT) is used as a system of analysis, diagnosis, and treatment. As a system of treatment, osteopathic physicians will determine the appropriate treatment -- sometimes that will mean only limited manipulation, other times extensive therapy over a period of several weeks, and sometimes OMT will be used in concert with other modalities of diagnosis and treatment.

[sinemora]

your responses are very thoughtful, unlike mine, which was all vitriolic and annoyed :)

(the comment kind of reminded me of all those annoying premeds over at SDN who bash DOs. People need to get a freaking CLUE.)

[sinemora]

Hate to break it to you, but most DO kids weren't MD rejects. Most of us CHOSE to be DOs. And if you think we're sub-par, guess what? We have the same professors and the same exams that the MD kids at our sister school takes, and not only that, we have EXTRA TRAINING. That "OMT garbage" is what chiropractors do. So when you're 45 and your low back is out of whack, don't come crying to us when your meds fail and your back surgery doesn't work.

[chilkatman]

DOs are great. But lets get one thing straight. OMT is great but don't knock the chiros. No respectable chiro school would ever teach crainal work but the osteopathic schools teach it. What chiro schools teach as far as manipulation is in fact a combination of chiro maves and OMT. If you see a chiro doing "garbage" they did not learn that in school. They got it from some stupid weekend seminar. Chiro schools are the ones with active research departments into manipulation.

[midnightcamel786]

It seems rather naive that you have labeled osteopathic physicians as "medics." Are you kidding me? You are clearly going towards DC and thats cool. Go for what you love. Nonetheless, please don't talk out your ass. A real osteopathic physician is just that, a physician that went to an osteopathic school. Med school is med school and chiro school is chiro school. Don't get the two confused. You do not know what you are talking about and sound like an idiot to everyone else.

[chilkatman]

The bottom line is that I have no respect for the DOs that do not integrate OMT into their practices. I did not mean to offend with the term "medic". By medic I ment a medical physician. An Osteopathic physician that just does medicine is just as good as an MD. I just don't respect them because they reject the core of osteopathic practice. I have spent a lot of time in osteopathic archives and understand the profession well. Real DOs do OMT and give meds and surgery. Shame is a bad thing.

[freespeechpatriot]

I know plenty of med students who were accepted at both MD and DO schools and chose a DO school. This is usually because they want to be able to do as much as they can to help patients (regular training plus OMM), they find the osteopathic philosophy appealing, or they visited both types of schools and liked the atmosphere of the DO school better.

[dustijc]

Hah! If you only knew...I've been working alongside allopathic medical students, and they are in awe of osteopathic medicine. They have seen the efficacy of osteopathic manipulative medicine (OMM) and always consult me whenever any patients present with musculoskeletal complaints. They are always asking me to teach them OMM. Many of them wish they had gone to an osteopathic school.

[nirvana328]

Actually, Caribbean medical school students are the ones that couldn't get into an American Allopathic school OR an Osteopathic medical school. Sorry to break it to you.

[chilkatman]

It really does not matter if you can't get into med school. Some of the best doctors are those that have stumbling blocks in certain areas like math and chemistry in undergrad and barley make it in or have to go to a foreign country. A good doctor knows things like pathology, anatomy and diagnosis. Any dumb kid can be a doctor if they have an apptitude for medicine. What you need is COMMON HORSE SENSE and undergrad is not an absolute indication of that.