Answers to 10 Questions every Atheist must answer (2 of 2).wmv

[TheJohnVandivier]

God has been the leading cause of death throughout history? How about the Bubonic plague? Droughts and famines across Africa, Ireland, Asia, South America.... Are we being intentionally ignorant here? Besides the irreligious have nearly 10x suicide rate so let's talk straight here about cause of death.

I believe war, natural disaster, and illness are leading causes of death. Don't talk about most wars being religious b/c that's bull and we all know it. Lust for power causes war.

[Moshikashitenai]

@TheJohnVandivier Who made the bubonic plague and all other harmful viruses and bacteria? And need I point you to such verses as Psalm 148:8 or Jonah 1:4? God controls the weather and is responsible for the natural disasters that kill millions each year, according to the Bible. Oh, and there's also Sodom and Gomorrah, the ~ 50-60 million killed in the Exodus, the Great Flood that wiped out 99% of humanity... shall I go on?

[TheJohnVandivier]

@Moshikashitenai You're playing buffet atheist. You take atheist philosophy when you want and quote the Bible when you want you just take a little of each kind - WRONG! If you claim the Bible is false don't quote it. If you quote it you attest to its truth so pick a side you contradict here - same thing alot of atheists do its irritating.

So we have 2 possibilities: continued in next post (1/2)

[TheJohnVandivier]

@TheJohnVandivier (2/2 CONTINUED) the first possibility is that the Bible is true and that God is responsible for many deaths, but arguably still less than 1% or so of the many billions that have ever lived which is much less than disease etc and also according to this view illness is the result of sin and nature CAN be influenced by God, but that doesnt entail its him every time.

Or view 2 which I thought you were arguing were the Bible is not taken as evidence and we use mainstream reasons

[TheJohnVandivier]

Christianity is used to harm people? Who? Muslims during the crusades who started the fight? Sure we have radical asses like those people who go around saying God hates fags but that isn't in the Bible! Therefore don't say "Christianity does X, Y, Z" say "Some but not nearly all or even a majority of people who claim to be Christians do X, Y, Z" Let's be accurate with our language before insulting an entire religion of people which constitutes millions of good people by any intelligent standard.

[TheJohnVandivier]

@TheJohnVandivier By the way Christians 1) donate more to charity than nonreligious 2) have lower crime, suicide, and divorce rates than nonreligious 3) have higher contribution to the sciences over history than nonreligious (and if you include Jews its in the 90% range for nobel prizes) 4) are responsible for more homeless feeding, hospital charity, etc than nonreligious in case any dumbass claims Chrisitans aren't generally good for society and most of these numbers are true vs other religions

[Moshikashitenai]

@TheJohnVandivier Sources needed. And btw, the divorce rate thing is bullshit. It only covers evangelical Christians. Atheists actually have lower divorce rates than mostt Christians according to Barna Research and Associated Press, albeit by ~10%.

[TheJohnVandivier]

@Moshikashitenai all of these top google hits support my divorce rate claims and I've heard even wilder claims but don't care to hunt down the research: usatodayDOTcom/news/religion/2­011-03-14-divorce-christians_N­.htm

sapphireskyDOTorg/2010/03/04/c­hristian-divorce-rates/

opposingviewsDOTcom/i/do-chris­tians-have-higher-divorce-rate­-than-non-christians

and no sources not needed this is well known knowledge bro google em not hard to find. those results above were all top hits. Barna is bull

[Moshikashitenai]

@TheJohnVandivier I've lived with Christians half my life and I can tell you they're the most descriminatory and racist people I've ever met. Even the pastor at the church I go to is a descriminatory motherfucker. Muslims are almost as bad. Of course, this is a generalization, I know not all are like that, but just enough to fuck things up.

[TheJohnVandivier]

@Moshikashitenai I've lived with Christians all my life and I can tell you you're wrong. Christians are regular people with 1 difference called Jesus. They are no more or less rascist discriminatory etc than regular people and, if they bother to read the Bible, they are multitudes nicer, less rascist, more tolerant, etc than anyone else. Muslims are fuck ups and in the Quran they are commanded to kill Jews and Christians. WAAAAAAY different. Christians are commanded to love and tolerate.

[TheJohnVandivier]

No evidence of Jesus? Is your head in the sand? Jesus is historically verified to the T he is hundreds of times more credible than Aristotle or even Plato. No one debates if Jesus of Nazareth existed the debate is whether or not events claimed in the Bible took place. The debate is whether they are accurate or exaggerated and inaccurate, not whether Jesus actually exists or not.

[Moshikashitenai]

@TheJohnVandivier I've been looking for any shred of evidence for Jesus' existance for years. Even as a Christian, no other Christian or church could give me any reason to believe he's real. Sure, historians don't doubt that he did exist, but most of them agree that he had no superpowers. None of his miracles left any testable evidence.

[TheJohnVandivier]

@Moshikashitenai You contradict yourself. You say you've been looking for a shred of his existance, etc but can't find it then you say "sure, historians don't doubt that he did exist..." Do you not believe the historians? BTW I know what you mean is to say you don't believe he was God not you don't believe he existed so just agree and we can clarify that.

I'm not trying to be rude I just like to cut to the chase its my personality. I think you're polite and good conversation hope 2 hear soon!

[ElectricStrung]

continued- I stand a chance at loosing nothing by having faith in God when I die nothing.On the other hand If I live my life while I'm here on earth anyway I want, and don't believe in God, and then I die and there is a God and his word was true then I lose Heaven and eternal life and everything.See man the odds are stacked in my favor with faith no matter what the outcome. I'm married have a loving wife and children we attend Church every week and I'm not wealthy but I am rich.Think about it?

[Moshikashitenai]

@ElectricStrung So living as if God exists "just to be safe" is they way everyone should live? Wouldn't God know you're just covering your own ass? That you're believing in Him just in case the Atheists might be wrong? That's not true faith, that's self preservation. It's a safety measure. Pascal's Wager fail. Besides, how do you know your God is the right one out of the thousands of gods out there? By your logic, shouldn't we all believe in every religion just in case our belief might be wrong?

[jk30627]

@Moshikashitenai it is not about covering an ass, the question was what would you lose by accepting a creator or better, have you realized what you lose by claiming there is none?

there is only one god, even though there are a thousand names.

by the way i am still waiting for your PM, i would like to understand your concerns better.

[Moshikashitenai]

@jk30627 Oh! I'm really sorry, I totally forgot about that. I'll send it right away.

[ElectricStrung]

The Bible is the Oldest history book of Man Kind. People for centuries have died to preserve God's inspired word look it up in American history we have proof of our creator. I am not the judge and I don't intend to judge you  . I do have one question for you I would like to hear your answer to.What do I lose by being a Christian and having faith in a God that I know will see me through the good and the bad? and if I'm right that there is a God what have I gained by living a christian life,heaven

[MrProtuber]

@ElectricStrung And btw ur statement puts ur god like a dumbass... U believe so if in case of a god u will be safe... But is ur god so dumb he wouldn't know ur real intention? u gotta believe not because in case of... u gotta believe with all of ur passion, faith and all ur senses.. it's not what ur bible says? and BTW GILGAMESH is a religious book and is wayyy older than bible.... Bible is not the oldest book..not even close...so quit watching those tv shows omg

[MrProtuber]

@ElectricStrung ohh just in case.i wasn't clear enough bible is not the oldest book...not the oldest book,,neither the oldest history book

[TheJohnVandivier]

@MrProtuber lol it's not even a book! It's a collection of them! (I'm sure you know I'm supporting you and lolling at the video)

[themongru]

It's good to hear such rational and well informed responses to difficult questions posed by a theist. I know that many people have been lead to believe that they need religion to be happy and live a good life, but I know this to be false. I look forward to the day when religion is a memory, even though that day may never come. It's the act of asking questions and solving them in an unbiased way that will make the world a better place, not copping out by claiming that "God" did it.

[Moshikashitenai]

@themongru That was beautiful :') *sniff*

[Moshikashitenai]

@tnafguy Of all my days of being a Christian, I've never seen any evidence that Jesus ever existed. Please enlighten me.

[jk30627]

you are talking about churches (secular institutions), not about god. read and learn.

[Moshikashitenai]

@jk30627 Who is?

[jk30627]

@Moshikashitenai you. there might be a lot of lies and wrongdoing in the church, but dont blame god for these human mistakes.

[Moshikashitenai]

@jk30627 What? What are you talking about dude? When did I blame God for anything? I'm blaming the Christians for believing in fairy tales and fucking up normally rational minds!

[themongru]

@jk30627 Define "God", prove that "God" is not just a figament of your imagination. Show me what "God" is.

[jk30627]

@themongru everything happens for a reason, or can you tell me one thing that has is without cause? i define god as the creator, the reason or the cause of heaven and earth. if this world exists, it must have a cause. but maybe its all just a figament of your imagination? i cannot 'show' you what god is through an internetblog. you can also not tell who steven spielber is just by watching jurassic park. but for people who are willing to understand, there might be signs to read along the way.

[Moshikashitenai]

@jk30627 Infinite regression fallacy is fail. Try again.

[jk30627]

@Moshikashitenai fail for what? your regression stops at one point, what comes beyond? as far as science can take you, your knowledge is never more that a grain of sand compared to the desert of things you don't understand. i can accept that for all my life time, i will never find an infinte answer to this, as there is something bigger than me that i don't understand.

can you accept it for your life?

[Moshikashitenai]

@jk30627 Oooooh, spooky language. You trying to scare me? My regression stops at energy. Energy has always been here according to the 1st Law of Thermodynamics. Energy got converted into matter. E=mc^2. Space expanded, molecules formed by the laws of chemistry. Stars formed and created elements. Gravity pulled them in and compressed the matter into planets etc. Where does God come in?

[jk30627]

@Moshikashitenai sorry, i didn't mean to scare you. but i would like to ask you once again, where the fail is in the regression theory. you start with energy and for you it might have always been there. but for me the energy must have some kind of final cause. i don't know what it is, i am to dumb to understand. maybe you know better.

i call this final cause 'god', aborigines call them 'Creative Ancestors', chinese call it 'dao' and there are many more names to it.

are you sure its not there?

[Moshikashitenai]

@jk30627 You didn't scare me, I was joking. I'll send you a PM explaining things more clearly

[themongru]

@jk30627 You assume that "God" is the only explanation for what we see. I am not saying that it did not happen for a reason, I am saying that by claiming to know something that you can't know rather than accepting that we don't know, you are lying to yourself. I am not claiming to know whether or not "God" exists, however based on what I can see in the world around me I can say with confidence that it seems very unlikely. I'd also like to say that there is no actual proof of any afterlife.

[jk30627]

@themongru i don't claim to know anything about the conformation of this world. i tend to feel humility when looking at the complexity of this world. all i know is that it's not our credit that the world is the way it is. you can't even make your heart beat one more second, no matter how hard you try. and as i feel humility, it feels natural to me to give devotion and gratitude to wherever all this comes from. calling this god is a definition that does not have to be verified, it is an axiom.

[javaretia]

Would Jesus have accepted Jesus? He accepted God and the universe and tried to help people.

[Moshikashitenai]

@javaretia LOL circular argument

[gethsoftware]

@javaretia no. judgin jesus he mostliekly hated him self. allso jesus did not really care what happend to people. he did most of the miracles to showoff. and when he stoped the people stoning the woman, it was not bechose it was wrong. it was bechose he belived that people where not good enugh to punish this woman. he did not say it was bad to kill this woman or it was wrong. instead the messages of jesus is"you are not worthy". and for being created sick, you are now commanded to be well.

[javaretia]

@gethsoftware You may have a point to make, but what sort of world do you hope to achieve in making such statements? One of love or one of hate? Do you wish to add something more to the list of resentments you have and make life miserable for yourself and others or do you wish to make things right? Giving a chill on the whole Jesus hated himself may help you in not hating yourself too much!

[javaretia]

@gethsoftware Maybe Jesus did want to show off. So what? Maybe he did feel we were unworthy to punish others, so what? I don't think anyone has a right to judge others without first thinking of themselves. What you say are interpretations for your own ends. The question is, what conclusion do you want to make? Do you want one that leads to resentment or one that leads to enlightenment? Discern!

[Moshikashitenai]

@javaretia Let me guess, Jesus is the way to enlightenment, right? Get real. You're subtlely trying to lead people into thinking Jesus is the only way to be happy and enlightened, when really a belief in Christianity, to my experience, leads to fierce closed-mindedness. I've walked both paths. I prefer the one without Jesus because that path made me deny the greatest facts about life, the universe, and everything just because they didn't mesh with my belief system. I broke those chains long ago

[javaretia]

@Moshikashitenai Your guess is wrong for their own reasons. I'm not for Jesus as I'm not for anyone. But I am for making the right conclusions about anything spiritual. If what you think is best for your spirituality, sure, by all means go for it; but if it in any way jeopardizes your own well-being: does it matter if Jesus is truth? Do not presume to know what I am talking about. I am talking about being open and aware to your own thinking patterns, whether it leads to the -ve or the +ve.

[themongru]

@javaretia There is no evidence for the existance of "spirits" or "souls".

[javaretia]

@themongru Then why do people still feel it? There is no evidence for aether or for whatever we cannot see beyond the telescopes in modern astronomy, and yet, people still deduce it exists. How can you be so sure about "spirits" and "souls"?

[themongru]

@javaretia Show me evidence and I'll look into it. Scientific theories are based on evidence and reasoning. The idea of "spirits" and "souls" has no scientific evidence to support it that I am aware of.

[jk30627]

@themongru and what exactly do you think to know about science? don't you know that every scientific theory is also based on certain axioms? maybe you have heard of schroedinger, he showed that according to modern quantum physics reality is always in conjunction with the subject who experiences it and therefore never objective. in fact, in this life you don't even get any proof that you are alive and that there actually is a world outside of your head (maybe youve seen matrix). no 100% proof.

[themongru]

People make themselves believe things because they want them to be true. The human brain is more complex than any computer system ever created by humans. It is perfectly capable of making things appear to be true if the person wanted it to be true or thought that it could be true.

[javaretia]

@themongru Besides, spiritual does not imply "spirit". There are four dimensions to human existence: Physical, Mental, Emotional, and Spiritual. From these four there are 4 more: Spiritual Physical, Spiritual Mental, Spiritual Emotional, Spiritual Spiritual. The deeper we go into our subconscious the deeper we realize our spiritual selves. Spirit is our drive, our breath. To deny spirit is to deny breath. Don't you tell me breath does not exist? How do you live each day?

[themongru]

@javaretia I believe in breathing, it is my human respiratory system which allows me to breathe. This has nothing to do with spirits. It is a physical function of the human body.

[javaretia]

@Moshikashitenai Nobody knows the true life of Christ. Why should it bother you if it is the way to enlightenment or not seeing that you have chosen your way? Be happy with your way as others are happy with theirs. If you broke those so called "Christian chains", good for you; but for those who find happiness in those so called "chains" and can see a "truth" which your reasoning has taken away from you, perhaps there is a perspective of Christification that isn't clear due to anger. Release it.

[Moshikashitenai]

@javaretia I don't hold anger toward Christianity. It might not seem like it, but I don't. Anger is inherently destructive. Why destroy when you can create? And I would be happy with my way if Christians returned the favor, but no! They push their beliefs on everyone whom they think is going to "Hell." It happens in schools, universities, society, even politics! Once they leave me alone, I'll leave them alone.

[javaretia]

@Moshikashitenai That is very true!

[javaretia]

@Moshikashitenai Are you truly happy? If so, why the attack on Christian thinking? That in itself is a sign of unforgiveness. Christianity may have been evil or bad to you, but until you let go of your negative perceptions towards Christianity, you will not be able to be happy when people talk about it. Happiness regardless of subject is the ultimate goal for all of us. Seek it! Not in Christ, but in yourself. Forgive those Christians who proved Christ was not for you. 

[Moshikashitenai]

@javaretia I attack Christian thinking because I've seen what Christian beliefs do to normally smart people. People who could've been physicists or biologists or something but instead waste their brain power on superstitious, dangerous beliefs. Scientific progress was held back for 1000 years because of the Catholic Church! I was a Christian. I've been able to see the good and the bad about it, and the bad outweighs the good. I also like debating Evolution and stuff, it's fun.

[javaretia]

@Moshikashitenai Of course, like me, you enjoy intellectual pursuits. There is a lot of bad in Christianity, but let's say if Christianity could evolve as an idea and only the good things remain, would it still be very bad? Are there any good things about Christianity? Seeing you said the bad outweighs the good. If there are no good things then there shouldn't be any outweighing of good over bad: it should be just bad!

[themongru]

@javaretia The problem with religions such as Christianity lies not in the nature of its effects but rather the legitimacy of the knowledge which a religion claims to possess. Religions rely on faith rather than evidence and because of this, more often than not they have slowed the progression of the human race. This is because they make people stop asking questions with open minds by teaching faith as a fundemental virtue.

[jk30627]

@themongru concerning the mistakes of christianity and other religions you are right. religious institions often do more bad than good, also because there is a lot of power linked to them. a claim to know absolute truth by anyone should provoke doubts. but when these institutions, who claim to be representatives of god, do wrong, that does not say anything about god. it is also not the fault of a soccer team if their hooligan fans meet to cherish violence, is it?

[javaretia]

@Moshikashitenai Let me tell you one thing about me. I am not a Christian, I am not a Muslim, I am not a Taoist. I am all that can grant me my own happiness. If you talk about leaving and breaking those chains. I broke them years ago and found myself lost. Until I could forgive and release. Now, I use Christianity. I use Islam. I use Dao. I am initiated in all of them. I use them for my own spiritual well-being. It has done me wonders. It has expanded my self will: I have become my prayers.

[javaretia]

@Moshikashitenai Come what may, we all want a stake in what we can or cannot manifest. We all want to control our universe. Ultimately that is what makes us or breaks us. Negative thoughts on anything can actually lead you down the road to receive things you do not want. It is always best, but not always easy, to release negativity , due to past hurts. Though it is vital to be positive always: For that is the key to receiving everything we want! I hope you all the best in everything! Blessings!

[clsisman]

Not sure why you got all the three thumbs-down? Amen to everything you said (no pun intended). I agree with everything in this video, apart from the fact that I am an atheist and not into new age religions. It was well argued and clear - did you ever get a response? I think the only thing you missed out was the concept of infinity (infinite universe, infinite possibilities, infinite time (time being a 4th dimention), etc.) Other than that, it was perfect. A* dude :p

[Moshikashitenai]

@clsisman Thanks, and no, I didn't get a response. I can see why you wouldn't be into New Age religions. When normal people hear the phrase "New Age", they immediately think "bullshit." When I ask them what New Age is, most of those people can't give me an answer. Paganism and spirituality were the belief systems I grew up with, but I was a Christian for about 4 years until I got into quantum physics and such and I started to question my faith and found that everything I thought it was, wasn't.

[Moshikashitenai]

@clsisman But if you really take the time to look into the New Age Movement and Spirituality like I have, if you ignore the crazies, those belief systems actually have a lot of truth to them and are mostly based off of modern scientifical principles, such as with the Law of Attraction, which agrees with harmonics, quantum physics, and superstring/M-theory. Most cries of bullshit when speaking of Spirituality comes from a lack of understanding ;)

[clsisman]

@Moshikashitenai I don't cry bullshit, I just don't know much about ti, and have no need for it in my life, I guess

[Moshikashitenai]

@clsisman Alright, that's cool

[tuggleprentiss]

That beard is not attractive.

[Moshikashitenai]

@tuggleprentiss Noted