Hamza Yusuf - Prophet Muhammad marriage to Aisha

[givebirthathome]

If you look up the wikipedia for Ramanujan, the famous Indian mathematician, you can see he was married to his wife who was about 9, and half his age. His wiki article notes that it was the normal cultural tradition of his place and time.

[rhomas913]

Quran 29 46 PICKTHAL: "And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better........."

I kind of thought name-calling was outside the scope of speaking with people of the book for muslims...but perhaps I am mis-reading the words of Allah in the Quran?

Thank for your comments.

[rhomas913]

Thanks for the answer and it confirms what I have been saying:

1. That the Prophet Mohammed at the age of 54 consummated his marriage with Aisha when she was 9 years old.

2 That marriage of this type is permissable in islam (old man and young girl)

3. That Mohammed's example in this case is not acceptable to people in the West today.

4. Hence Mohammed's example is not perfect and eternal.

5. Whereas Jesus example is perfect and timeless: love God and love your neighbor.

[ali12147]

3. ..he married Aisha because she was the daughter of Abu Bakr who was his closest companion. This was also to honor Abu Bakr as he honored Ali and uthman by giving them his own daughters hands in marriage. So i think your quiet confused, just the mere fact that the propeht married Aisha does not mean it is recommended for us to marry a young person because as i said he married older women and if we take your theory it would be recommended for me to marry a 35 year old.

[ali12147]

2. Yes it is true, the prophet was the greatest example for us and i strive to be like him. I mentioned that he married women who were older than him and i think this is very indicitive of the fact that he did not specify 'a perfect age to get married' rather he taught that if you think you'd be doing something which is benificial then you should go ahead. So as i said he married widows, divorcees, some of his marriages where to bring together clans who were enemies previously...

[ali12147]

1. To be perfectly honest i think it is sad to see how you draw conclusions without proper knowledge. I just wanted to point that out and i realy do feel for you, i hope i can clarify things for you. First of all it is my beleif as a muslim that islamic law is far greater than any law in history, it was islamic law that held together the worlds first global community over the course of centuries remember. I rather live by the law of God as opposed to law laid down by corrupt politicians.

[rhomas913]

In Christianity, the prophets of the OT are not perfect people. They all have sinned and are not seen as examples to be imitated in all respects. The sole model for Christians is Jesus who never sinned.

In Islam, Mohammed is the perfect example whose words and actions are eternal and timeless.

Quran 033.021 YUSUFALI: Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.

[rhomas913]

Now the problem is:

--If Mohammed is the perfect example for all muslims; and

--He married a 6 year old girl and consummated the marriage when she was 9 (as she reached puberty);

--Then a marriage with a pubescent 9 year old is acceptable today as it follows Mohammed's perfect example.

The age of Aisha is confirmed in Sahih Bukhari Book 008 Number 3310:

Aisha reported: Allah's Apostle married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

[rhomas913]

That said, I would recognize that Mohammed was not acting outside of the norms of the society with which he lived.

But a 54 year old man marrying and sleeping with a 9 year old definitely is not acceptable today.

So either Muslims would have to admit that Mohammed's example is not perfect for all times or that the standards of the West are wrong.

Hamza Yusuf seems to skirt the issue but implies that Mohammed's example in this case is not be imitated.

[ali12147]

Good attempt but im afraid what you have said is totaly rubbish and i'l tell you why. If you actualy listened, you would know that Hamza Yusuf says that for muslims it is what sharia says. Know we all know that people back then matured alot quicker than today, for e.g. Usama bin Zayd led an army at the age of 17. most people today reach puberty when there 12 or above and the conditions in sharia is that one has to have reached puberty and be able to make a decision for themselves.

[rhomas913]

Thanks for the answer....I went to the Islam-QA . com to get an explanation Fatwa 1493 : ....(Chapter on a man marrying off his young children)." The fact that Allaah says ". . . and for those who have no courses [periods] [(i.e., they are still immature) their iddah is three months likewise, except in case of death] . . ." [al-Talaaq 65:4] is an indication that it is permissible to marry girls below the age of adolescence.

[rhomas913]

It goes on to say:

"Al- Muhallab said: "[The scholars] agreed that it is permissible for a father to marry off his young virgin daughter, even though it is not usually the case to have intercourse with such a young woman."

So the waiting period for a girl (to remarry) who does not yet have yet her period is 3 months (so as to determine paternity if she is pregnant) .

Why would there be a waiting period for a prepubescent girl if one s not allowed to have sex with them?

[rhomas913]

So sharia seems to say that :

1. It is fine to marry a young girl;

2. It is fine to have sex with her;

3. The only condition is that she is "physically able for it" - as to be determined by the husband.

Granted the standards in the West change...but this is a little different. Mohammed is the prophet and perfect example for Islam. Western standards are manmade rules.

Why would you compare the rules of Allah to the rules of man?

[ali12147]

6. According to Hanafi law which is what a vast majorities of muslims follow due to the fact it was standardised during ottoman period a person can even go s far as getting married without consent from a parent/guardian. Ofcourse this is not recommended due to disrespect to ones parents but according to sharia it is 'permissible' in the same way that a girl getting married at puberty is 'permissible' but not recommended due to social conditions today.

[ali12147]

Also yes the prophet is the best of examples for us but you seem to forget that he had wives who were older that him. His first wife khadija was 15 years older than him and it is a well known fact that she was his most beloved. He was also married to widows and divorcee's etc. so what you are assreting is totaly false. As far as western standards are concerned in certain states in america the age for marriage is 18 but in the uk its 16, does that make the british a bunch of 'paedophiles'

[ali12147]

You have to remeber that sharia has been the same for 1400 yrs. wstern standards shift on a regular basis, fornication has become a norm in society just in the last half a century or so and this is one of many examples. Also it is fair enough that jesus never married but how comes he did not point out 'under age marriage' as something wrong. It was happening in his society then why is it that he never told people to stop it, if it was such an evil act why is it he never rebuked it.

[rhomas913]

Christians follow Jesus as a basis for moral behavior:

Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:36-40)

[rhomas913]

Jesus "invited" us to His teachings. He could have come as God and demanded that we obey but He wanted us to choose.

Society today has determined that in no way is a nine year old girl prepared to either have sex (even in marriage) or have children (even young girls today who are living exactly like the prophet's young wife Aisha where they have great responsibility at a young age).

So then I repeat that Mohammed's example in this case is not valid for us living in Western society today.

[ali12147]

4. Now if we look at islamic law and it pains me to see how ignorant you are, but you will find that about 93% of sunni muslims follow one of the 4 schools of thought. these for schools of thought came about a couple of centuries after the death of the prophet(pbuh), Hanafi, Shaafi, Maliki, Hanbali. There are thousands of hadiths and Quranic verses are not properly understood without early commentaries so the scholars from these schools studied all this inorder to derive law or sharia.

[ali12147]

6. If we where to derive law from chrisitan texts there is no where were jesus talk about age of marriage, no where were he disagrees with age of marriage of someone else, im sorry but i think that is very indicitive of the fact that he didnt disagree with it and that is simply because it was a norm in that society whereas he did disagree with other thing people did because they where wrong in those days and today.

[ali12147]

5. Now based on what you said i can give you a hadith right know which will make your argument look silly,

' A virgin came to the prophet(pbuh) and mentioned that her family married her against her will, so the prophet(pbuh) allowed her to excercise her choice'

(sunan Abu Dawud, hadith 2091)

"Indeed, my father married me to a man and i dislike it, He (the prophet) said to her father, 'Let her go marry who she wills'"

(Nasabur Raya 6/48)

there are many more similar hadiths.

[zizomina2]

what about Abraham he had 3 wives including hajar whether you consider her a cuncubine or not and probably many others. the fact is you will never find any prohibition in the bible to polygamy. Matter of fact islam is the only religion that limited marriage to 4

[ali12147]

what a stupid argument to present, firstly please show me the verse in the bible in which it claims that solomon and david where led astray. Apart from that please show me one time where jesus disaproved or showed disagreement with his mother and her husbands age difference.

[hicham437]

David claimed to be a Prophet and he had 99 wives. lame

[serpico707]

he did not have more than 4 wives at one go! God's law are in the Qur'an.

[GODandPEACE]

What a load of crap, Mohammed wasn't forced to marry Aisha, he could have had married an older women and that wouldn't go against his own culture. Besides if Mohammed were truly a prophet of God he would have known that his teachings should be universal independent of time and space and that there would be time in the future where some of his teachings would be very controversial, but of course he couldn't stop his sexual desire to molest a child simply because he was nothing but a charlatan.

[ali12147]

Lol, Nobody said the prophet was forced to marry Aisha so get your fatcs straight. other than that according to biblical scholars joseph was 90 when he married 12 year old marry. So dont come here and talk your rubbish.

[ali12147]

lol, it is a fact that Joseph married Mary when he was 90 and she was 12. But the thing is that us as muslims dont look at these things in the way you do because we are taught to have the best opinion whereas you have a polluted mind so your bound to think like that. I realy feel for you man.

[j400wel]

watch- bandit queen

[xtremeownage2]

DO NOT listen to the LIES propagated to you by anti-islamic bigots!

The Prophet Muhammad (S) married Aisha (R) when she was 18-23!

Video: tXaw9UZlK_I

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the most HONEST, RIGHTEOUS, PIOUS, KIND, SINCERE, HANDSOME, HUMBLE, JUST, SMART, MERCIFUL, AND HONOURABLE PERSON AND CREATION OF ALLAH.

The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is the greatest of Allah's creation.

[ali12147]

and to be honest it is only worth having a debate with someone who is worthy to debate. Your channel shows your narrow minded approach so your just a waste of time to be frank.

[ali12147]

Well yes, prophets from the bible, im not talking about ordianry people. How about you do abit of research before running your mouth.

[ali12147]

I think a person interpretation of things reflects there mind and obviously someone like yourself has a filthy mind. I can give you many examples of people from the bible who married at a young age. You see the wisdom is that the prophets morals and character if studied is unmatched in history, there's no two ways about it.

[xtremeownage2]

You are a moron, Taqiyah = Shia!

I am Sunni, you moron!

You are a liar and a deceiver! Keep your nonsense to yourself!

[xtremeownage2]

DO NOT listen to the LIES propagated to you by anti-islamic bigots!

The Prophet Muhammad (S) married Aisha (R) when she was 18-23!

Video: tXaw9UZlK_I

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the most HONEST, RIGHTEOUS, PIOUS, KIND, SINCERE, HANDSOME, HUMBLE, JUST, SMART, MERCIFUL, AND HONOURABLE PERSON AND CREATION OF ALLAH.

The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is the greatest of Allah's creation.

[RAFAAJ2000]

Ok. the prophet may not have consumated his mariage with Aisha until she reached puberty however she was still a child when the mariage contract was established.

The question should be where is the mutual consent required in mariage ?

A child cannot possibly understand what mariage is let alone giving consent to it.

I hope someone clarifies this for me. Thanks.

[2007josemarques]

From my understanding - in most societies and cultures, & there are numerous examples from western societies throughout the middle ages - it was the norm for marriage to proceed through this channel. Where the father or guardian represented the girl, & someone represented the male. Consummation of the marriage binds it, in Islam a woman has the right to object & not be forced to marry anyone. So while the family have arranged a suitor for both parties - clearly at maturity no one can force it.

[ali12147]

This took place in the early period of islam, and there is no doubt that Aisha was honoured to be the wife of the prophet throughout her life. But as far as mutual consent is concerned that is indeed a must according to sharia, this was later established. When Ali wanted to marry the prophet daughter he asked her and made sure she was happy with it. During a nikkah(wedding) both paries consent is asked and clarified again. Also the islamic wedding contract is simply offer and acceptance.

[2007josemarques]

Also....

There is the clear example of a girl who told the prophet (PBUH) that her parents had married her without her consent, & although she had no qualms with her husband, she wanted to know her rights - she was told it was her right to annul the marriage if she willed. The means of contracting a marriage is only a method employed throughout time by families, it doesn't negate a womans right - the final choice is hers.

Cont...

[2007josemarques]

Cont..

Consideration also has to be given into the social conditions of the time - both life expectancy & social responsibilities.

Average life up until recently was 40yrs old, this presented issues - firstly would the father be around to guide his daughter to a good man, & also a woman needed more than 10 yrs of life to raise a family. Also it must be noted that we're all products of our environment - a 13 yr old then isn't the same as now! & the responsibilities of life were different.

[2007josemarques]

One last point..

It should be noted that being married at what appears to us a young age, has actually been the norm throughout time & societies until as late as the 20th Century.

British & Irish Law until 1922 - the legal age of marriage: females 12 yrs old, males 14.

The same in France. In the US it was actually lower until 1889 when it was raised to 14 in California, other states varied - Delaware was 10 yrs old

Like I said before we have to understand the issue in its full context. Thanks

[RAFAAJ2000]

That was very informative josemarques.

I didn't know that , in Islam,a woman could annul her mariage before consummation if she wanted.

Thank you and thanks to Ali too.

[love4all111]

this would imply that Aisha was either confused in her dating, was exaggerating her youth at marriage, or that her stories (which were not written down until more than 100 years after her death) had been garbled in transmission.

[ali12147]

Im sorry but your going to have to elaborate on that, i dont see how any of what he has said implies any of what your saying.

[love4all111]

Oh...what happend here? I'm so sorry, here u go this is a first part of my comment!

There is some contradictory evidence from early Muslim chroniclers like Ibn Ishaq and Tabari that indicate Aisha may have been 12 to 14 years old, just past the age of puberty, or perhaps even OLDER. According to Ibn Hajar, Fatima was five years older than Aisha, making Aisha 14 years old in 1 AH. Tamyeez al-Sahaabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalaniy, Vol. 4, Pg. 377,

[ali12147]

Well i dont think Aisha(ra) was neither confused nor exaggerating but your right there is a difference of opinions from the early scholars. But i think the point that shaykh Hamza is making is that its no big deal, because this was 1400 years ago in the deserts of arabia, it was a norm in there culture as it was in many cultures and still is in some parts of the world.

[love4all111]

yes u right bro age is not a big deal ,Marry first was arranged with Joseph she was between 7 to 9 years old."

If Christians do not find any difficulty in accepting "Mother of God" (according to Catholic Encyclopaedia), who was 12-14, marrying a 90 year old man then why do they raise objection towards the marriage of Aisha (RA) to the Prophet?

[givebirthathome]

Christians as a whole do not raise objections to the marriage of Aisha. I was raised Christian, and never heard of it until after 9-11. The Aisha thing has only been raised in the past few years as war propaganda, and I think it is an unpopular with secular Americans as it is with Christians.

[ali12147]

I'm glad there's people out there thinking rationaly, i think some people search for 'ammunition' when debating so they pick out things which are so ridiculous if examined.

Imam Shaafi who was a famous scholar once said 'i never debated with anyone except i hoped the truth would manifest from his tongue'. In other words i will talk to someone and i hope they can help me understand things better which will increase my knowledge as opposed to 'winning' the debate just to degrade your opponent.

[givebirthathome]

Beautiful sentiment of yours, and of Imam Shaafi. One of the problems with modern Christianity, is that the main push of Christianity has ceased thinking alot about how best to guide behavior(altho there's some of that) and has gone off the deep-end with what I call Membership card thinking. ie. "I profess Christianity, therefore I'm saved".

May alot of truth manifest from your efforts! We need it.

[zahratalain]

Hey, I have catch you my friend,

with your amazing comments as always :) May the guidance of Allah be with you. Amin.

[maanaaj1]

Beautiful

Thats the only word i have for your comment :)

[mohammadawais]

Allah was right (obviously :)) when he stated in the quran that there are good christian in this world. thanks

[kaziabdal]

this is a good lecture by HZ. Still, I wish he would denounce his association with the CFR and thei foreign poolicy goals and plans for Islam.