4-15 Bishop Spong -VS- Dr. Martin - Topic : Sexual Ethics

[TheRugbyidiot]

"Throw your archaeological jargon into the ash can and obey jesus christ!" aka shut off your mind and accept traditional authority !

[mrpayne123]

(Biblical blunders continued...) There are many horrors, I am just going into rape and slavery

"God's" rape laws:

A virgin is forced to marry anyone who rapes her. (Deut22:28)

If a married women is raped and doesn't scream to alert someone, she is stoned(Deut 22:23)

God often told the Israelites to kill complete towns, but to keep the virgins for rape(one example is Numbers 31:18)

God punishes David by arranging the rape of his wives & God kills one of his babies (2 Sam 12:11)

[mrpayne123]

Spong needed to enforce that the bible has gotten many things morally wrong, or at least its morals are not objective and appropriate for today.

Supposedly these are laws directly from god on slavery:

Slavery- Foreign slaves, unlike Hebrew slaves, are treated worse, kept forever, and passed down like property (Levit 25:44)

You can beat your slave to death as long as he dies after a day (Ex 21:20)

You can sell your daughter as a sex slave into an unconsenting polygamous marriage (Ex 21:7)

[TheEnlightened77]

If this is a debate between Bishop Spong and "Dr" Martin then why is John Ankerberg speaking more than both of them? Fact is the late "Dr" Martin is a proven liar. He lied about his doctorate degree and lied about a text from the Mormons Journal of Discourse. It's clear that Martin and John are fundamentalist and have closed minds to what the Bishop is saying. True spirituality should look to what the Spirit is leading us towards. The immutable faith will always be a fearful force opposing this.

[The1JuanKurse]

Evangelicals typically hate semiotics and hermeneutics, so they invited a man versed in both so that they could smear literalist dogmatism up his face. Congratulations to the fundamentalists, using agression once again to lock up talks of peace and tolerance.

[Operaandchant90]

is this supposed to be a debate or a roast of John Spong? this is terrible.

[tylerjamessharp88]

Ankerberg: an obnoxious ass and a lesser mind.

[bse67]

Very interesting discussion. But if it were a true debate, why is the moderator supporting one side?  A moderator of a debate should be completely neutral.

[Socksbike]

The host is so bias and goes on a rant.  Spong shows integrity. Biblical fundimentalism is a dangerous thing.

[SideSwipez77]

Sponge is incredibly ignorant to scripture.

[MsBatista85]

@SideSwipez77 I DONT THINK HE IS IGNORANT TO SCRIPTURE HE JUST HATES SCRIPTURE AND WHAT IT SAYS AND TRIES TO CONVOLUTE THE MOST PLAIN SCRIPTURE AND BIBLE IGNORANT PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE HIM BECAUSE THEY DONT KNOW THE SCRIPTURE.

[MoDeeSeventyThree]

@SideSwipez77 no he isn't, you seem to be

[ClumsyRoot]

"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." ~ Saul Bellow

Bishop Spong was the only man on that stage who exhibited intellectual integrity.

[JohnPeter777]

@ClumsyRoot amen

[foreveralive]

Spong is a complete reprobate--totally depraved. The man isn't honest enough to simply confess that the truth of scriptures aren't consistant with his desired way of life or the causes that he champions. They're totally irreconcilable. He should walk away from the pastorate while publicly admitting that it's dishonest for him to hold the office any longer because he simply doesn't accept the truth of scriptures. Discerning Christians see this man for what he is.

[MsBatista85]

@foreveralive AMEN AND AMEN.

[ezzstreet]

It is impossible for someone to understand something when his or her livelihood depends on not understanding it. It is impossible to debate against two fundamentally flawed morons.

[philpil100]

This is just ridiculous and unfair. The moderator, by the way , is using the logical fallacy entitled argument from authority. He's assuming that since the authors of these books are from harvard and cambridge, then they must be right.

[InDefenseofChrist]

God Bless Dr. Martin. Its sad that he passed away.

[amyrollin]

The bible is a book of complete hypocrisy.

People pick and choose the elements of religion to follow then condem others for believing differently. This is basically and inter religious war. How can a religion spread the word of peace when they alone can not comply to their own policies.

[cryinglion]

Well, the reverse is more true. The bible states clearly that God condemns homosexual activity. Then for some reason, the Episcopal church which claims to be a Christian church looks the other way when they ordain gay & lesbian priests. They find the passages in the bible to be to offensive, and would rather teach only of the love of Jesus. No, I would disagree with the bible being full of hypocrisy.

[amyrollin]

To each their own. I'm not Christian. I was raised one, but lifes too short to be honest. I don't deny there is a God, but I don't follow a religion. I'm happy with morality. However your statement didn't make sense to me sorry. If the bible says something then it must be true? Therefore all Christians should follow the bible? No..?

[davemccune]

i can't remember who's debating spong and who's the moderator

[waluum]

@davemccune : All ideas are not equal going into the debate. Don't overlook the fact that Spong is coming in with a minority position that strongly deviates from the generally accepted interpretations of the issues discussed. Given that, it would be unreasonable to give him an arbitrarily equal standing. His views are on trial (in the literal sense of the word) and he is given a fair chance to present and defend them, which is the purpose of the show.

[johannine]

The host of the show is way out of line--inviting two guests on to his show to debate, and then jumping on one guest in order to double-team him.

[amlach1]

Yes it would seem unfair, but remember that the goal of the show is not fairness but truth! And truth will stand always whether they are two against one or not. But I agree with you, he should either invite another up on the stage so that the can be equal in number or be quiet. Even so I like him and agree with him.

[CAndiron]

@johannine gah. Wouldn't you say it's more important to determine which side is actually RIGHT???? Don't you care about that? Do you think this is something akin to a sporting event?

[goosejoy20]

God Bless Walter Martin for the defense of the faith. Spong is a heretic in the first order.

[nikki2christ]

Amen. God Bless Walter Martin! Spong is a clear case of Wolf in sheeps clothing.

Spong + 2 words = False Prophet

[PWitness]

I find it fascinating that almost every single argument Spong makes against the New Testament was refuted by John A.T. Robinson in *Redating the New Testament*, and Robinson, as Ankerberg mentions, was Spong's mentor and the forerunner of his atheistic Christianity.

[njexit8a]

Spong saved a lot of people from leaving the church. Spong was a brave man to stand up to the long standing, close-minded beliefs that one must believe and follow everything was written in the bible. The fact that the bible condones slavery is an example of why every message should not be taken literally. For you people to call Spong an "anti-christ" or false leader.... you should be ashamed of yourselves..... and WAKE UP. Think, use critical thinking and science as well.

[FaithandReasons]

lol! "wait a minute John...don't be cute" lol!

[stopplayingchurch]

Bishop Spong discounts everything in the bible in order to sell his books, plain and simple. Either he believes he is right, then that would make the bible wrong:Or, be knows the bible is the supreme authority and He insists otherwise in order to get publishing deals

[spinhook888]

Wait, so was Spong debating against the guy on the stage with him or in the audience??

[robtul12]

These so called "Christians" were outrageously rude, bellicose, and interrptive of the Bishop. However, Bishop Spong maintained his cool and showed a peaceful and, dare I say, Christian attitude toward them despite their rudeness and cruelty.

[johannine]

You are correct. I don't agree with Bishop Spong's interpretation of Christianity, but I certainly prefer his approach to discussing these matters freely and earnestly as opposed to his arrogant opponents.

[haaseblume]

"if (Jesus) comes forth from the dead" GIVE ME A BREAK! GO BISHOP GO!!! YOU RULE!

[amet1980]

boy was Bishop Spong wright about homosexuality buck then.

not only did it got legalized(it was illegal in most countries at that time) but civil unions have been institutionalized across Europe.

many countries are ordinate gays as priest and religious marriages of gays are conducted.

all major dogmas must taken more careful approach towards the matter, and Anglican and Calvinist churches have moved on.

whats the established perception of evangelicals from rational people?

exactly!

[inlight4evr]

I hope the bishop repented

[ericthered65]

this was just too providential.... I just did a vid on Sunday night (i think) on the JEDP hypothesis theory and how tragically non-historical and completely the result of the whims of those who create and use it.

Anyway - here the right Heretic SPong asserts JEPD as part of his basis for his heretical beliefs! (my vid comment is that vid that i made)

[ChristHeartEternal]

honestly, i genuinely feel ill from listening to that evil bishops voice and looking at him. What an anti-Christ.

[ManInRevolt]

You call Mr. Spong an "evil bishop"? :0Imho,you,sir,are blinded by bigotry. Blinded by hatred. Way to go,"true christian"

[Grandecasla]

@ManInRevolt you just OWNED HIM.

[njexit8a]

ChristHeartEternal...... your comments made me ill!

[ChristHeartEternal]

creepy bishop