Second American Revolution: George Grant (5 of 7)

[starxship]

Really cool video

[buzzclick500]

Something good and something huge is happening. ;]

[SDS4BO]

the most widely quoted source in the founding fathers' writings was the Bible. Thirty-four percent of all quotations came out of the Bible. And the book of the Bible they quoted most often was the book of Deuteronomy. Now most of us don't go around quoting Deuteronomy a great deal today, but Deuteronomy is the book of the law.

[SDS4BO]

Dr. M E. Bradford of the University of Dallas researched their church membership and found that 28 of those 55 delegates were Episcopalian, 8 were Presbyterians, 7 were Congregationalists, 2 were Lutherans, 2 were Dutch-reformed, 2 were Methodist, and 2 were Roman-Catholic. There's one, McClurg of Virginia, that Bradford couldn't find anything about and I haven't either. There just isn't much written about him. And Bradford discovered that just 3 out 55 could be called deist or skeptics.

[SFleury21]

OK let me make this simple for you God is Great, Church is OK, but when it comes to this country there is no need for a free nation to implement religious boundaries. Its only fair to allow others to praise as they wish and our founding fathers knew this.

[lexrextex]

George, this is the first time I have listened to you or seen you. You are doing such a good job. I am so sad that the people who are making comments about your lessons seem to be missing it. Please keep up the good work out country needs more people like you. Thank you so much and may God bless you.

[lordpoee]

The point is this: The founding fathers were creating a nation where one could live outside the moral boundaries of the church if one CHOSE to. Some were Christian, some were deist but they all seemed to agree on one point: A society ruled by morality is doomed to oppression.

[jcr4runner]

All societies are ruled by someone's morality.

Christians are oppressed when they are ruled by the "morality" of atheistic communism.

Christian morality gives more freedom to non-Christians and punishes only those who really deserve to be punished.

[kendrickdk]

Yet another attempt to put spin on the truth. The truth is that most of the founders of this country had nothing but contempt for revealed religion because it lacks reason and harbors insanity. The founders wanted to create a fair system of government and the only way to do that is separation of church and state. Its people like this guy who will bring about a religious war in America. You religious nuts better stop pushing and leave the constitution alone.

[jcr4runner]

So you are saying that at least 50 out of the 55 signers of the Constitution were NOT members of confessional orthodox Protestant churches?

[rob80nikki]

I am not a very religious person myself and maybe this guy is a bit off, but you can't deny deism, divine providence, free thinking, individuals.

It wasn't a one God system, but was thinkers who harbored a belief in something greater than themselves.

Again, a divine providence??????

[jcr4runner]

Deism is the idea that God set up the universe like a well-constructed clock, wound it up and let it go. He doesn't interfere.

Divine Providence is the idea that God provides for us on a daily basis.

The 10 percent of the founders who were not Christians were more like Unitarians than Deists.

[particle409]

Why do I remember John Locke writing about a three branch government a few decades before our founding?

And didn't Jefferson also read the Quran, and books of other religions?

[markcookus]

"Thomas Jefferson read the bible everyday"..yes, for research. He later wrote the Thomas Jefferson Bible, which took out all the supernatural items of the bible and focused on Jesus Christ as a great MAN, not the son of god...learn your history Mr. Grant. Actually you probably knew this but conveniently left that out..

[jcr4runner]

The point here is that Jefferson lived in the midst of a Christian culture and even the most famous Enlightenment thinkers could not help but be influenced by it.

Grant here says: "Thomas Jefferson read the Bible every day, even if he only read portions of it as he was wont to do."

You didn't pay close attention to what was said.

[eriksname]

LOL. Dr. Grant is definitely a Christian trying to justify the interwhining of church and state. Wow they stretch things so far. The founding fathers didn't mean for their to be any confusion, they said it blatantly and directly within the Constitution... please read the entire document and you will see that religion has no place in our government.

[skillisme]

why do so many american academics wear bow ties?

[Cuffsmaster]

your post caused me to do some research. Not sure he qualifies as an academic. Where is this Bannockburn College??? Is it an accredited school and if so what organization accredited it? Look for yourself.

[jcr4runner]

George Grant has degrees in Political Science from the University of Houston (B.A.), Philosophy from Whitefield Theological Seminary (M.A., D.Litt., Ph.D.), Humanities from Belhaven College (D.Hum.), and Theology at Knox Theological Seminary (D.Min. Candidate).

[broadband01]

to the rebels george washington was a hero..to the british he was a traitor [his grandparents were english]also the french stopped our shipping supplies otherwise we would have won [also the first constitution was the magna carta 700 years before the american one which is based on the magna carta...your history is our history....

[eriksname]

To say "we would have won" is simply speculation. As young students we learn that our Constitution was primarily a derivative of the Magna Carta (obviously with alterations.) What I actually find interesting is that England has become such a secular society while America is still influenced by religion, actually I am a bit jealous.

[lightsaberduel]

You have got to be kidding me!

Another "America was founded on Christianity" nutjob?

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." - Thomas Jefferson

But what makes this one stand out is trying to use Jefferson to support your claim. Jefferson had the utmost contempt for Christianity. In his own words, "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shown on man." And, "I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."

[jcr4runner]

Do you have citations for these quotes? I find them quoted on various atheist website, but with no citations.

[stratmandoug1974]

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

[Cuffsmaster]

Well at least he was not using Thomas Paine and the 'Age of Reason' to try to prove that this is a Christian Nation. I have seen that used. I do agree with you Stratmandoug about Jefferson. Oh, didn't he also call the bible a dung hill.

[MrsSarb]

Jefferson rewrote his own version of the Bible. He took out anything that was supernatural in nature. He didn't believe in miracles or in the trinity. He believed that religion was a private matter. There were other founders however who were very religious. The treaty of Tripoli is the best reference I have found yet to the fact that they did not want this to be a Christian country. They were very clear about this and it was voted on unanimously.

[ahamagi]

There is something in the discipline of history called primary sources...writings from the men who lived it and their critics. These men can speak for themselves and this forum is way too small to go into this debate. Maybe some other time. But here's a teaser: "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -Thomas Jefferson. Thanks for the invite though, maybe later.

[ThatChristian]

Who cares? Thomas Jefferson wasn't one of the Founding Fathers.

[jcr4runner]

Do you want to rephrase or better explain that? Jefferson was THE founding fatheer.

[ThatChristian]

Founding Fathers is a proper noun referring to the 55 men who signed the constitution, of which Jefferson was not among. I am not saying that Jefferson had no influence upon our country, he obviously did, but he wasn't a Founding Father.

When talking about the Founding Fathers one must understand who they are talking about. My statement was rather over the top, I know. I was hoping it would spark some good conversation.

[MrsSarb]

The Founding Fathers were George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, Benjamin Franklin, John Jay, George Mason, Samuel Adams, and others.

[callingheyzeus]

The Founding Fathers were....

You missed Smith and Wesson and Sam Colt.

[ahamagi]

But then again, half-truths with a spin seem to be the order of the day.

[jcr4runner]

It's easy to just deny. Can you debate specifics? What "half-truths" are you talking about?

[ahamagi]

Oh brother, talk about over-emphasizing something to advance a personal agenda.

[kendrickdk]

This guy definitely has a religious agenda... he's putting spin on the events that happened centuries ago. Most of the signers of the declaration of independence were Deists... but these people were still in politics and had to "kiss up" to all the varying religions. If you study history you will see that many of our founding fathers attended multiple churches... But to say that Christianity is the driving force of our government is false.

[jcr4runner]

Can you name all the Deists who signed the Declaration? -- you won't find more than three or four. In fact, it's been shown that 50 out of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Christians!

[roargathor]

so what?  How hard is it to accept the "separation of church and state"?

[larryandrews3366]

You haven't been listening... separation of a church and state, yes... not a separation of God and state.

[ielle77]

mark twain was presbyterian. Trust me, i live in the town he spent most of his time in. Everything is named after him and we have him crammed down our throats. He was a bit... deist. But he did indeed belive in god and often showed up to church in plaid (which apparently was a scandal). But he showed up

[jcr4runner]

That's very interesting! I knew that Mark Twain was a believer in God when he wrote his first novels but became an atheist later on. I didn't know the story about the plaid suit! Thank you for this. It's similar to the story of Thoreau showing up at chapel at Harvard in a green suit because black was required.

[ielle77]

no prob, apparently when he turned 50 he switched to a white suit which also ticked folks off. But i'm not sure why that was scandalous. My guess... he was trying to look like god. lol i'm kidding. seriously though that white suit and white hair look is creepy and EVERYWHERE in this town lol.

[ClemClemens1111]

I am of 7 generations of deist, Mark Twain being one ( some say he was an Atheist) O well. I have found in stats I have read, Christians have far less Morals than ant Deist, Atheist and agnostic.

[formlessnessx]

The first amendment justifiably addresses the separation of powers. It was penned to prevent the British doctrine of "the divine right of kings" from taking hold in the United States. The doctrine gave the monarchy absolute power as Head of the Church of England as well as Head of the State.

[Aeroslin]

I will say this once. If the rules and guidelines that I live by are similar to those of any religion(s), it is coincidence. The slander continues against Thomas Paine.