Equal human rights...in a anarcho capitalist society?

[alexandersydney]

go read about maritime republics in Europe

[OuTofJoY]

Capitalism is usury, whether it be with regard to wage labor or seeking profit (receiving more than the real cost of goods.)

What capitalists call "mutual advantage" is the "haves" exploiting the relative disadvantage of the "have nots" - that is the only way "profit" is possible. Otherwise, profit is impossible and trade would be a fairly equal exchange of value.

Capitalism is opposed to liberty.

[neoptolemus]

Anarchism works. I'm not on about "anarcho"-capitalism as that's not actually part of anarchism but anarchism has been shown to work. I'll give a couple of real-world examples, the Free Territory of Ukraine (1919-1921) and large parts of Spain (1936-1939). Of course these societies did not survive yet that is nothing inherent with anarchism. The Free Territory in Ukraine was crushed by the Bolsheviks and the anarchist communities in Spain were destroyed by Franco and USSR backed state-socialists

[Hashishin13]

@neoptolemus Taking over an already functioning society and then losing control of it after 2-3 years isn't a proof of anything. If they went to some island with nothing and built it up into a vibrant city that would prove something, (look at the skyline of hong kong 1950 and today) Or if one society with the same people, geography and everything were split in half with opposing political structures that would prove something. (north+south korea, east and west berlin)

[greenhell666]

"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men, for the nastiest of reasons, will somehow work for the benefit of us all"

There can be no democracy without equality; "real" anarchy is about social and political freedom.

[Hostile]

@greenhell666 No democracy without equality? Good, lets avoid both.

[hawkpork]

good vid.

the people's interests must be honestly represented.

the people must have power over capitalists.

or we're all fucked.

[spawk1993]

because the capitalists aren't people?

[greenhell666]

Some of them ... yeah.

The Anarcho-Capitalism utopia is plutocracy.

[Hashishin13]

@greenhell666 The anarcho-capitalist utopia is only plutocracy if you think that everyone is in on it. You are born with the most valuable property you will probably ever want to own, your body.

[xelenty]

If you believe that you are forced to pay your taxes by the point of a gun... And you know you are... Then you have to believe that the State uses violence to control us..

[Sepero1]

good vid

[Sepero1]

I'm libertarian too, and I'm currently in the process of seeing where the holes are in ancap too.

[FistsoFuckinFreedom]

170 million ppl.

[hellpartyboy2008]

U sound fag

[guiltyspark5]

You sound retarded =O

What a shocker, eh?

[pyrrho314]

my respect for you went up VH, not that it matters, just saying. cheers.

[bwhahrhr]

Liked your line of argumentation, eventhough I am of diffrent opinion

[Golgo151]

lose the fat then maybe more peole will listen to what you say.

[VirtualHolocaust]

oh besides the 760 subscribers? wow great logic

[Golgo151]

well maybe people that arnt lossers, your ideas will neaver garner atention in the wide society as long as you look like jaba the hut; your a discusting slob that cant even breath right

[fakemeister]

LOLz @ the fat pig

[VirtualHolocaust]

wow you are witty

[FakeMcVeigh]

About as witty as a tree trunk.

[RustyK94]

Fact american is a feudal based consumer society, govern by the laws of game theory.

The inequality that this generates is of course intentional, creating alienation between the classes.

This equals fear and fear equals control.

Im gald i live in scotland :)

[FakeMcVeigh]

You think Scotland is so different?

[VirtualHolocaust]

lol what the fuck ever have fun sucking the queens ass cunt

[RustyK94]

Yes scotland is a very diffrent country. Unlike america most ppl in scotland are atheist or just don't give a fuck.

And even if we where religious country i don't think many would still go to church on a sunday. As we are so pissed from the night before.

Also in scotland your considered to be in poverty if you can't afford a holiday every year. In america ppl still live in trailer parks and shacks.

[RustyK94]

well iam republican so the queens ass is the last place i want to be lol never heard of an ass cunt?

why don't you try baw bag or you dirty sheep shaging bastard. I could go on like this for a while.

I don't hate american ppl i just hate politics

[VirtualHolocaust]

oh what the fuck ever every time you pass a sheep it fuckin runs

[RustyK94]

i wasnt inferring you fucked sheep i was saying it would make for a better insult.

Look don't get me wrong i love a lot of the aspects of american culture.

The reason why small developed countrys have so little poverty is because there are fewer ppl of which to distribute wealth. Giving greater equality.

America has a quarter of the worlds wealth, but you will be lucky if even quarter get that money.

[VirtualHolocaust]

our fucking homeless have cellphones dont preach to me about poverty in the us. You are talking about standards of living. especially since canada has a higher level of poverty than the us percentage wise. But no lets talk shit about america.

[RustyK94]

I would like to see a picture of homeless american with a cellphone :)

Crysis has the long credits ive ever seen. Oh yeah we where talking shit about america.

See in scotland we don't have a huge homeless problem unlike america so i can't comment on if they have cellphones or not.

To be fair Scotland does have lot problems most caused by the union than us scots.

But independence is getting closer :)

[VirtualHolocaust]

yeah im sure you dont have a big homeless population. how many people live in scotland again? 5 million. there is close to 300 million residents in the united states if you include the illegals. new york has more people in that city than your country so yeah. keep it in prospective.

[Mjhavok]

I live in Scotland also. I don't get peoples facination with monarchy. I think that is mostly England and not Scotland. I remember when Princess Diana died and I see people TV crying who didn't know her. I was like WTF! She seemed nice and did charity work but so fuck. She was mega rich. If I had that cash I'd probably do the same. Scottish Enlightenment baby!!!

[RustyK94]

i hope you vote SNP :)

[Mjhavok]

Nope. I don't vote. Call it a protest. I disagree with pretty much every politician I see and I won't just vote for a lesser evil. I say won't but I might in the future. You never know.

[RustyK94]

Well i want idependence so i vote SNP.

[Mjhavok]

Why do you want independence from the UK.

[rowsdowersavesus]

good one

[sharpie443]

It's impossible to have a anarco capitalist system. Anyone with rudimentary understanding of economics knows that. I like the old saying "You can change the world but I'll just change it right back." It's impossible to not have some sort of government.

[VirtualHolocaust]

well the main concern i would have of it is this. people love 2 things

money

power

and there is room for both. but people also become power/money hungry. and in a situation where there is no protection to the consumer. for a hugely power hungry rich dude the skys the limit. in less than 100 years there would be genetically modified humans for hard labor. humans are cheaper to make than robots and cheaper to feed.

[sharpie443]

Actually no it wouldn't be that bad. It just wouldn't work. Corporations are boned by the principles of economics. supply and demand is one of the most well know and scarcity. They wouldn't be able to do anything like that unless they formed there own government. The bigest problem for them would be resurch and development because of something calld the free rider theory and the nature of public goods any resurch project worth wile would never be undertaken.

[sharpie443]

I hit post by accident thats why everything is spelled wrong, such as research

[VirtualHolocaust]

lol

[sharpie443]

My sentiments exactly. :P

[Genowulf]

Anarcho-capitalism, for the most part is based on the Austrian school of economics.

[sharpie443]

I have never heard of an Austrian school of economics. They must be a group of incompetent wannabes if they think that crap will work.

[Genowulf]

I'm sorry but you just lost all credibility.

[kurtilein3]

great video, i agree with you completely on this one.

in my oppinion, market anarchy / anarcho capitalism requires a huge amount of faith. the people promoting it could change my oppinion by explaining the logic behind the system they promote, but so far they failed.

[VirtualHolocaust]

dude the logic of it is so simple and they say it over and over. the logic behind it is that the initiation of force is wrong. even if its a governing body. im arguing how practical it would be.

[kurtilein3]

the problem is that they need to provide a solution for the following problem: what if some people just use force if they get an opportunity to do so for their own benefit? if noone has the right to use force, how do you keep people that want to harm others from doing so? that problem has to be solved for a variety of sub-topics.

[Genowulf]

Really I think this is becoming a misunderstanding. The issue isn't force, it is the "initiation" of force.

[inourpresence]

In anarcho capitalism the non initiation of force rule is relative to how much money and power a person has. Without money and power this rule will not apply to you and people can initiate force against you without any problems.

[Genowulf]

Where did you get that from? If you had even a basic DRO contract anyone who initiated force against you would be found guilty and forced to repay you - if that's what you wish.

[Genowulf]

Beyond that, all that ancap says is the initiation of force is morally wrong. DRO's are probably not the only solution people could think of - anything but the status quo.

[inourpresence]

What about the people who are too poor to afford a basic DRO contract?

[Genowulf]

My first thoughts would be charity DRO's, plus a different economic situation leading to much less poor people (i.e. abolition of taxes, minimum wages, etc.)

[inourpresence]

So, that's it? Anarcho capitalism promotes non initiation of force only to those who can afford it and to those lucky enough to receive charity. That's not anarchy, that's plutocracy.

[Genowulf]

Do you believe in charity?

How are the poor able to afford the current system?

[inourpresence]

Wait, you side stepped my criticism. How is anarcho capitalism not plutocracy? How is anarchy truly anarchy if people in it can be ruled? When you can figure out a way to explain that to me I'll give you my answers to your questions.

[Genowulf]

The questions are important and relevant, I think.

[Genowulf]

The questions are important and relevant, I think.

[inourpresence]

I agree that my questions are important and relevant. I'm still waiting to find out what your answer is.

[Luke12000]

I'll do a response in a day or two, thanks for the video.

[VirtualHolocaust]

you are very welcome sir

[ForOrAgainstUs]

DRO is not supposed to be savior. It's like saying "Figure out how Microsoft becomes a billion dollar corporation."

Also, owners of DROs have just as much of a right to associate with you as you do with them. Everyone maintains their own level of involvement.

Also, you can nitpick until the end of time. But I don't think you can knowingly argue from an immoral stance. That's the goal for me.

[ForOrAgainstUs]

edit: "...corporation before you start the corporation." Every business is molded by market demand--not by ultimate forethought. I don't think it's possible to bash a business plan until it fails. The concept of DRO is just that, open for anyone to try.

[VirtualHolocaust]

its fine to have a moral stance on a subject im not looking at it as if you arent moral or the people involved in the conversation isnt moral. however the world isnt that way. people arent static i wish we were statically good. However that isnt the situation. hell if it wasnt for this fact communism might work. But it doesnt.

[ForOrAgainstUs]

Human rights stems from a moral position--what we should and shouldn't do to people. That human rights apply to all people is a moral argument which is universal in order to be objective and logical. I don't think you can escape talking about morality in this argument.

[VirtualHolocaust]

did you even watch the video?

[ForOrAgainstUs]

Yes. You're implying morality all the way through your video. Saving lives, do DROs have too much power, (material) equality, slavery, whether we should give power to the corporations. All of these are moral arguments. There were some economic arguments in there too, but when you start telling people how they should act rather than how they do act, you're talking morality. Let me know if you wanna delve.

[VirtualHolocaust]

nope i dont really have fun with your mental masterbation.

[ForOrAgainstUs]

So is that just a quick way to get yourself out of an argument without taking responsibility for the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about, or does an argument lay somewhere underneath this bitter reply?

[VirtualHolocaust]

want a debate make a video i dont have time to debate with everyone in comments. Please make a video if you wish. and yes it was a quick way to get out of an text comment. if i wanted to argue or debate in text i would do so on a forum.

[RustyK94]

i agree will use one of my other accounts

[TheBlindWatchmaker]

Anarchy is the idea only a moron would embrace. Absolute freedom is impossible. The only thing that is possible in life is to give the most freedom possible.

[FakeMcVeigh]

It is an idealistic and unrealistic idea. For it to truly world our society would have to be radically different. Anarchism may work if we reached a technoligical level in which money was no longer required.

[TheBlindWatchmaker]

We would also have to change human behaviors. People naturally become heirarchical and want to compete with others. They want to feel unique and attain power. Anarchism SOUNDS noble, but it is IMPOSSIBLE.

[FakeMcVeigh]

I don't know if it is impossible but it is at least very improbable.

[inourpresence]

Even then it wouldn't work. It's an inherent problem between nature and reason.

[Mjhavok]

We can change our nature.

[inourpresence]

I'm not implying that we can't control aspects of our nature. I said there is a problem between nature and reason. The problem is larger than a simple subjective problem where a person must learn to control himself, the problem is intersubjective.

[VirtualHolocaust]

at what price would you pay to change our nature? ever seen the movie equilibrium?

[Mjhavok]

I don't want to get rid of all emotions. Can you even enjoy something without emotions?

[VirtualHolocaust]

exactly but the point is what would you pay to get rid of some of the emotions? Emotions is what makes us human. If you get rid of them then what are we? We should just let the fucking robots take over then. I think we are freer than in most places to be honest. Its funny how so many people in free places complain about wanting more freedom. What is the problem? i smoke weed do what i want if im not stupid i stay clean. The po-po does what it needs to do.

[Mjhavok]

I was talking about what would be needed for an anarchistic society to actually happen and work. I don't condone a blanket change of human nature. It would have to be a gradual evolution of change using progressive technologies and biology. I think an ideal society would be a socialistic anarchy.

[VirtualTerror]

yeah it's not christian bales best and sean bean should have gotten a lot more screen time.

Apart from that it's ok nothing to special

[ReligionIsACrutch]

Nice points. I think Minarchism is the answer to those complaints.

[FakeMcVeigh]

What about prisons?

[VirtualHolocaust]

they are shunned i guess instead of punished.

[Genowulf]

There are theories of punishment. I know you probably don't like being directed around all the time but Murray Rothbard has some fantastic articles about a lot of common questions all over the internet.

[Genowulf]

Also, I'd say it would be a good idea to take your questions about DRO's to Molyneux himself (at his forum). He's probably the one best able to articulate the theory and address questions.

[FakeMcVeigh]

VH, do you notice that propoents of market anarchism always send you to links of other peoples work like podcasts or books. Can no one explain it themselves?

[VirtualHolocaust]

well i think they can to be fair. but in the confines of 10 minutes it might be hard.

[Genowulf]

I think it's hardly fair to ask someone to completely explain such a wide theory in the confines of a youtube comment thread. Surely google isn't too hard to use.

[FakeMcVeigh]

You could say that about almost any discussion/debate on YouTube.

[Genowulf]

Fine don't read anything if you don't want to. You asked a question, I gave you some information, it is what it is.

[FakeMcVeigh]

I read plenty thank you.

[Genowulf]

Did you read any Rothbard articles?

[VirtualHolocaust]

oh for fuck sakes you are getting you panties in a ruffle over some fucking fantasy shit. this is never going to happen its just mental masterbation. yes yes lets have conversations about how we would make a utopia. let me ask you a question how could something come along without getting blood on your hands?

[Genowulf]

Is there a reason behind this turn around?

[FakeMcVeigh]

No I haven't read Rothbard. I do plan on reading his book though at some point. Too many books, too little time. I know it's not an argument but the views of anarchists just seem unrealistic. A lot would have to happen to the world to allow it to have even a small chance.

[Genowulf]

Fair enough.

[MisumiKuro]

Well pointed.

[lirpa69]

Interesting points.