Re: Lie #60 You Must Make Jesus Lord Of Your Life

[reflectthelight777]

Well said brother. Blessings.

[EliyahsMessageTime]

I don't speak for Steve for which you are responding.

BUT, I would think his perspective would be that it was not US that caused that 'surrender' to manifest in our lives. Since it is by GRACE it is not of works. The ABILITIY to even THINK to place Him in charge is of Him, not us. SELF SAYS "I DID IT", Steve is saying "GRACE DID IT". A variant of "hyper-calvinistic" ideals some would say, perhaps. YES, it manifests as if WE took action, but it was HIM IN US in actuality by SPIRIT possession.

[Oscargoss]

AMEN!!!

[GlennZim]

So how much is enough. Where does the works righteousness end with you. This lordship theology isn't it works righteousness. Where you're telling God to move over on that Throne as I'm going to be sitting there with you and be partly responsible for my salvation through my ability to surrender all to you.

[Providential1611]

@GlennZim This is nonsense you speak. Lordship salvation is about putting Christ on the Throne completely. What is this gibberish you speak? Why it is nothing more than Strawman, antinomian foolishness. Jesus Christ said DENY YOURSELF, TAKE UP YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW ME. IF YOU CAN'T DO THIS, YOU CANNOT BE MINE. What part of that is unclear to you??? And please answer questions asked of you, or I will have to conclude you are another troll and ignore you

[GlennZim]

@Providential1611 Notice it says deny yourself. I believe he could be saying deny that it is you that partly saves yourself through good works or surrendering all and lean solely on grace. Matt 7:22-24 seems to suggest that those who relied on a blend of works and grace for salvation will be told to go away, as they are going to say I did marvelous works i.e. I surrendered all , but that will not be enough for salvation.

[Providential1611]

@GlennZim No,actually they did not surrender all--they surrendered nothing. The context is about false prophets, good tree vs bad tree, good fruit vs bad fruit, and those who hear His sayings and DO THEM vs those who hear and DO NOT. One builds on a rock, the other on sand. One is caught up in subjective claims, but Christs said they were workers of iniquity--Greek anomos--lawless. They were lawless and Christ was not their Lord. Sad

[GlennZim]

@Providential1611 I just feel that you're going to be locked into some holiness race with some other Christians. You are going to be continually trying to surrender all the most, so that you can surrender all better than Joe or Jane Christian. This has no rest in it, but grace has rest in it. My understanding is that while we're in fleshly bodies we'll all be workers of iniquities even if saved, so therefore the believers sin is covered by the blood and the unbelievers sin is not (Matt 7).

[Providential1611]

Your feelings are wrong and have no basis in reality. feelings are often wrong--that's why we need to be led by the Spirit and God's Word, not our feelings. We are in a race as described in Heb 12. Your understanding that we are still workers of iniquity even if saved is utterly wrong and flies in the face of what Christ said. he will tell such--who claim to be saved, like you think to DEPART FROM ME. How do you miss this? Calvinism. Calvinism blinds me from the truth.

[Providential1611]

@Providential1611 Read 1John chapters 1-3 carefully. Real believers walk in the light. Those who walk in darkness but claim to know Him--John said are liars and lost! John said that we know true believers because they obey His commandments. He said since we kn ow He is righteous, everyone THAT DOETH RIGHTEOUSNESS is born of Him. He said those that practice sin are of the devil. Those born of God do not practice sin, but habitually obey the Lord and His commandments. Go see for yourself

[Providential1611]

@Providential1611 What you need is a mighty, Pentecostal Baptism with the Holy Spirit to purify your heart and empower you to live in victory over sin, the world, the flesh and the Devil. That is why Christ told His followers not to leave Jerusalem until they were clothed with power from on high. You need your heavenly apparel and the full armor of God. Calvinism resists these truth and thus, cause men to be naked, poor, wretched and miserable, like the Laodiceans were. I'll pray for you

[GlennZim]

@Providential1611 John 3:30 writes He must increase, but I must decrease. One reformed view of this verse is that I must decrease is that I must decrease in importance in the salvation equation by not relying on my works or my surrendering all, but solely on his grace and that causes him to increase..

[GlennZim]

@Providential1611 I realize my response must sound strange, but that is the reformed faith I've come to know from reformed ministers. I do believe you want to do good works, but I'm not sure they are linked to salvation, but more toward pleasing God after savlation.

[O2streaming]

Jesus is not the author of the doctrines attributed to him, because all of these doctrines are plagiarized from other cultures writing and myth. Jesus is a composite figure, who never really lived. Historical and literary research has already proven this. So you can continue to distribute lies if you wish- But you are only deceiving those who have no understanding of how writings in literature come into existence.

[Providential1611]

@O2streaming Jesus never really lived? LOL. How absurd. You have never really lived.  You don't exist.

[O2streaming]

@Providential1611

Calling my argument absurd, is NOT a good rebuttal. And following that by simply attacking me, is equally fallacious. You can't sweep away, the mountain of evidence that shows Jesus is a composite character of literature, like all literary composite figures, and that Jesus never lived, nor did he do or say, any of the things in NT. All of these events are traced to other works, written both before and after, 100 AD. There is a paper-trail, proving this, you absurd liar!

[Providential1611]

@O2streaming There is no mountain of evidence. All you have done is make BASELESS ASSERTIONS. You have offered no proof.  So you engage in hypocrisy. Only a LIAR would deny the existence of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, as His existence and teachings are some of the most documented and thoroughly researched things in history.

[Providential1611]

@Providential1611 I am taking an Intro to NT and its history class. The text is by Bart Erhman. He believes like you, and makes all kinds of false, baseless claims like you do. I am nore than half-way through the book and can see right through his incessant lying. All his "evidence" has done is STRENGTHEN MY FAITH, seeing your boi-boy has NOTHING to offer, esp, NOTHING NEW that wasn't destroyed and refuted 100 years ago. You assertions are PATHETIC LIES

[O2streaming]

@Providential1611 Im not Bart Erhman and he is not in my research, so equating me with someone you can easily defeat is another fallacious form of argument called the "straw man." You knock down Erhman, and then try to make that my defeat. This fallacy fails because I'm not using his work as evidence for my claims. This is your fifth failed attempt to rebut, and your forth use of a fallacious argument, and your fourth or fifth personal attack. Which is to "attack the man," instead of rebut. Fool

[Providential1611]

@O2streaming I have not engaged in personal attacks--YOU HAVE. Your last word there is yet another manifestation of your blindness and HYPOCRISY. You don't like being informed that you are a hypocrite, BUT YOU ARE. So you whine about personal attacks. You have a problem with lying as well. What do we call people who lie? LIARS.

As for Erhman, you repeat his old lies. There is no difference between his errors and yours. They are the same

[O2streaming]

@Providential1611

Research for you, is to read half of one book, part of one class on the NT. Well do you really believe that half a book and one NT class is enough to convince you, of your position? Reading half of a book on the NT, may sound like a lot of reading...to the ignorant, but "real" research requires reading hundreds of works, perhaps thousands of documents. IF you think one class and half a book is enough, to convince you, then you deserve your ignorance, so continue to enjoy it!

[Providential1611]

@O2streaming I own thousands of books.  I own many scholarly books. I have heard all this before--for over 20 years I have heard and read the baseless attacks by people such as yourself. Your assertions have all been refuted--EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. Of course you don't know this because you've only read and heard one side, unlike me, who has read them all. The only reason I am in that class was an elective I had to take. Nothing new. Same old lies.

[O2streaming]

@Providential1611 When a scientific account fails to give a sufficient account of a phenomena, we need more scientific investigation, because that's all we know, so far. We do not enter a magical or ancient mythological account for the hole in a scientific account. Why? Because magical thought is always eventually debunked with a better more advanced scientific explanation, i.e. things like the Ouija board, psychic predictions and psycho-kinetics etc, have all suffered a scientific debunking.

[O2streaming]

@Providential1611... Again, your simple denial, and personal attacks do not sweep away a mountain of evidence. You want me to list the 1300 years worth of documents, for free? I had to pay for my education, and it took many years of real research. Unlike, you I go and look it up- You remain in your dogma and denial and blind ignorance... And your third personal attack, is still not a rebuttal. Simply, invoking "Jesus of Nazareth," is also not an argument. Simple answers, for simple minds, read!

[Providential1611]

@O2streaming 1300 years worth of documentation? LOL. What are you going to do, put up Mohammed's and Islams lies agains the Bible and Christ? Is that your evidence--from an illiterate, pedophile false prophet?

Your ideas began in the UNenlightenment era. It is recent. 1300 years ago, many people were superstitious, but they weren't the arrogant pseudo-intellectutals of the DARKENMENT era, of which you are a DUPE.

[O2streaming]

@Providential1611

Anyone who looks this up, is going to find out that you are either lying or simply misguided, or that you have NO understanding of world literature. I am not here to destroy you, I am here to correct you- If you want me to destroy your argument completely, I can- But I don't need to do that- Since, I have no problem with you remaining in your ignorance. Only the ignorant and misinformed, and the deceived, will believe you, because they don't check it out; they only follow.

[Providential1611]

@O2streaming You can't destroy anything. Christ the Lord said the gates of Hell WILL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST HIS CHURCH. You are one of many little fleas who boast great things, who come and go. His Truth is marching on. You can't stop it. Christians scholars, by the way, are the MOST THOROUGH, WELL STUDIED AND INFORMED PEOPLE THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN. You have NOTHING NEW to say that hasn't been DESTROYED 1000 times over by REAL SCHOLARS, which you are not.

[walkinginlove43]

There will ALWAYS be debates over doctrinal issues within the Christian Church '' meaning '' his children''. It is so sad when we attack one another and go as far as dividing over such sillyness.. there are closed handed issues such as salvation in Jesus alone... THAT is not debatable. Lets not allow debatable ones cause strife.

Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.. the debates fighting and strife looks very worldly and the world laughs!

[heygeno1951]

praying for you bro..... keep telling it !

[blueskunk12]

Beg to differ. Making Jesus our Lord is a man-centric work. It places us on the Pedestal as we "invite Jesus into our life".

As Steve McVey keeps saying, we don't invite Jesus into our life to start changing us. We offer ourselves to Him, He puts us to death, and we take on His life. Jesus becomes our life.

But it's not us doing the work, which is what "Make Jesus your Lord" means. We don't do the work, God does, and that's why, IMO, "Make Jesus your Lord" is a perversion of the Truth.

[promisedgrace]

You are making old covenant teachings try to fit into a new covenant - it was warned against as putting old wine in new wine skins...Jesus was teaching to Jews under the law because the new covenant didn't start until He poured out His blood on the cross

It is important that we rightly divide the word or you get into false teaching...only humility at coming to the end of yourself to please Him will open your eyes. Also take a look at Titus 2:11-14 and see what teaches us to live Godly lives

[polopowers1]

He is not Lord over everyone? And only those who repent can make Him Lord? There is no full acceptance for events in history of mankind by anyone who believes God was not Lord over every person.If God was not Lord than He suspended His authority for the will of the un repenting to do their will.This is what you call I'm more righteous than you preaching Because I by will am holy.God has ordained all things and it changes nothing in my relationship to Him.I pray in suspense of His governing will.

[mdv25]

What this guy says SOUNDS good, but this guy to me sounds immature in his faith, and ignorant of the gospel. He doesn't understand his identity in Christ. Anyone who truly has put their faith in Christ gains a new spirit, a new nature that doesn't want to sin. And a true believer who happens to walk after their flesh will eventually turn from sin, because their behavior isn't consistent with their holy, righteous identity. Again, what this guy says "sounds" noble, but show his ignorance.

[Providential1611]

Perhaps your study and knowledge is immature. I was taught about my "identity in Christ" over 20 years ago, and read all the people who were teaching it, and we CONFESSED "Who we are in Christ". Whether it was Hagin, Kenyon, Copeland, Hayes. Osborn, Sumrall, etc. I know who I am in Christ. and I know that there is no salvation unless Christ is LORD OF OUR LIVES.

[mdv25]

You obviously don't understand your identity, and your view of salvation is that it comes via works.  Salvation is only by grace. You sound very angry with all people who don't live by your "rules" for living the Christian life. Maybe some of these people you're judging aren't even saved, in which case why should you be surprised they're following their sinful nature? We as believers don't have a sinful nature, as it died at salvation (Romans 6:6, Galatians 2:20 and Colossians 3:3).

[Providential1611]

You obviously don't know what youre talking about, nor do you know what I do or don't know. I posted no rules. I said what the Bible says--that when we makes Christ Lord in our hearts, He saves us. He said we must deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Him or we cannot be His disciples.

Again, my video is a RESPONSE to another video. Go watch THAT video and you will understand, unless you don't care and have come on here to SIN and attack me for sport.

[mdv25]

Boy, you legalists sure get angry fast. Angry at other believers for not living your "sinless life". I am aware that you're responding to Steve's video.  I've seen his, and he makes perfect sense, and you do not. It's arrogant to think you can make Jesus your Lord--He just IS. We abide in Him, and His grace empowers us to obey Him. Your perspective is a legalistic paradigm. Also, you are teaching a works salvation, by the sounds of it. Please don't lead others astray with your legalism.

[Providential1611]

LOL. What ignorance. Now when someone like you continues to accuse someone you don't know about things you obviously are in total error about, it becomes clear what spirit you are of. The Devil is the accuser.

Now lets try a simple question. When Christ said to a group "You are of your father the Devil", was Christ their Lord, or was Satan their Lord? If you can answer honestly, you refute yourself. If you are proud, you won't answer honestly to save face. You sound quite antinomian.

[mdv25]

Prov, I'm not the one displaying ignorance. Your question alone is an ignorant one. Of course Christ wasn't their Lord! He was talking to ALL unregenerate, unsaved people, PRIOR to His death and resurrection!! And you call me ignorant! Jesus taught many times in the spirit of the law---The New Covenant didn't begin until Acts 2! Any true Christian has Christ as Lord---it's our inheritance. I'll say it for the third time---You're ignorant of your identity in Christ, and very arrogant ...

[Providential1611]

Your accusations are baseless. I know who I am in Christ. End of story. For you to accuse otherwise is your own delusion.

Next, you said we don't make Christ Lord because He is Lord. Really? Then how is it that these people had another lord? And what would have happened had they repented. Well , they would have made Christ THEIR Lord. You see to like to strive about words to no profit. Cease

[Providential1611]

And let me add, that you attacked me personally as ignorant and arrogant. And you say it again. WHY? Because I don't bow to your ignorant, unBiblical opinions? Well I say anyone with your mentality is already flushed out as both ignorant and arrogant. You don't know what spirit you are of.

[mdv25]

Providential, with all due respect, you were the first to call me ignorant. You are also guilty of personal attacks. I don't believe you are living under grace, but are mixing law with grace, which is no grace at all.

I know who I am---I am what the Bible says I am, holy and righteous----as are you. Problem is, I suspect you're trying to become those things instead of appropriating God's truth of what you already are. Someday I hope you get a revelation of that truth of your identity.

[mdv25]

Additionally, let me enlighten you as to what an antinomian is. An antinomian is someone who believes the law isn't valid. The law is valid, to the NON-believer. As scripture says, it's a tutor to lead a nonbeliever to Christ. As scripture also says, the law is not made for a righteous man. We are dead to the law, but legalists such as yourself are committing spiritual adultery, which Paul talks about in Romans 7:1-6.

[Providential1611]

You cannot "enlighten" me, as you are in darkness. Christ said that those who call Him Lord Lord, and who did "many wonderful things" in His name will be rejected as workers of iniquity. That word iniquity is ANOMOS--LAWLESS. The basis of Christ rejected those claiming Him will be that they were LAWLESS.

Paul said we do not make void the law, but that we establish it. Go and learn what that means

[polopowers1]

Jesus is not Lord by my surrender.That would not make Him Lord. There is nothing I do thats makes Christ Lord .Lord is Lord by definition.The Lord of Stalin 's life was Jesus Christ whether Stalin knew so or not.This subjective God contingent on man is ludicrius.Christ has never lost a battle for a man's soul! Never! And that does not mean all are saved.

[Providential1611]

You completely missed my point.

The issue is about whether salvation is about making Christ Lord of your life, or merely Saviour from Hell while whether we decide to obey or not, be holy or not, is up to us.

I say Scripture teaches that when we surrender to the Lord in faith, THEN He saves us. He only responds to repentant, broken and contrite hearts that hunger and thirst for righteousness.

Jesus cannot be out Saviour and not be our Lord as well.

[polopowers1]

There is no natural will of man that is contrite, broken hearted, without regeneration first.The natural man understands not the things of God neither does He know them. How can the natural repent to the Holy being natural?.He cannot see the Nature of God to repent too.The Spirit must come first than man may hunger and thirist for righteousness also a broken and contrite heart.There is no will of man coming to holiness because he is inclined. You must be regenerated to to repent properly.

[Providential1611]

This video is not about the Ordo Salutis.  Go argue that elsewhere.

[polopowers1]

I never argue scripture I thought you were an open minded honest brother but there is no way I can believe that when its more convenient to write me off.The natural man is powerless to enter into the things of God because they are spiritually discerned.I just realized your not in this for learning or fellowship.

[Utopiang]

Amen, Providential611. God bless you in Jesus' precious name, brother.

[calvinismisacult]

Calvinism is a cult.