The comparison of the insult of Dawkin's wife, with his attack on 'god' is rediculous. Dawkin's wife is a verifiable, and very real person. Not only that, but if Dawkin's wife was responsible of some of the depictions of god's behaviour in the bible, then she would be open to very justified condemnation.
@C0ldhead@ptica11@bary1234 There is no point posting a video about religion, because atheist find meaning in their life by trying to convince themselves and those around them that there is no meaning. And so thats why, while atheists are a minority in the world, they rule the internet and youtube alike and there is just nothing one can do aside from realizing they are just insecure attention whores who are jealous others have peace and conviction in their life. I feel sorry for them.
@dancingwithcalvin I feel sorry for you. We have meaning, we seek knowledge and truth. You can not prove what you believe and atheism does not result in people flying planes into buildings or bombing clinics. I assume you are religious, yet you refer to other people as whores. My dear you prove our point that religious people are hypocrites. We don't need to say anything, you hang yourselves with your poorly researched ideas, lack of education and will-full ignorance.
@dancingwithcalvin We do not have time to feel sorry for you, we are busy educating your children, discovering the medicine in your hospital and discovering the technology that saves lives. You might want to ask god to make an appearance so that we can take a break please. Surely he has had a long enough holiday since his apparently very tiring 7 days 3.5 billion years ago.
I dont believe god made the earth at a certain point in time. Almost all hospitals are named after saints, because saints and nuns and monks were a select group of people who dedicated their lives to helping others in the name of god. Dont get me started on education.
@r34d7h3616l3 but god wanted him to ...and he was happy to recieve sacrifices ...look at LOT and the many examples of YAHWEH needing a sacrifice...WHY?
Disappointing refutation. This part of the book is intended to be funny while also making the point that the multiple personalities of this god.
You suggest he talks about this god as if it exists which makes no sense. He specifically refers to it as a fictional character. Even if he didn't, would you have the same issue with someone who talked about Romeo and Juliette? do we have to believe they exist to talk about them?
8 minutes and basically all you've said done is accuse Dawkins of cherry-picking, and then, presumably by cherry-picking yourself, you've come to the exact opposite conclusion.
the eaerth is the proper distance from the sun for life which shows God is merciful to life and is good,therefore a good reason to believe in a good God.Jesus dying in the place of sinners on a cruel cross, and all we have to do is put our faith and trust in Jesus as our God and saviour and turn from our sins, to inherit eternal happiness in paradise,also shows Gods love
i believe God is the watcher not the creator. He keeps the fundamentals of the universe in order. The reason life grew from the Earth, is because of what you just said (minus the God part) because of the Earth being the perfect distance from the sun life came from their. Not because God created it.
You do realize that Dawkins referred to the "god of the bible" as a "character in fiction." It's pretty easy to back up all of Dawkins' epithets, given that he flooded the world, had his son killed, ordered the genocide of gerico etc. etc. What your stance shows is that (like Dawkins) you are selectively interpreting god as you like him. The difference is that Dawkins admits this fact, and you think your interpretation is "true." You might as well be interpreting Gandalf - it's fiction!
Ancient Egyptians knew the world was round and one of the first countries that the Arabs brought the Last Message to, was Egypt in 641/2 AD.
One of the first Islamic universities was built in Egypt, namely Al-Azhar. Furthermore, it is alleged that Muslims studied Greek works including Ptolemy who wrote the world was round.
When the Church discovered that Muslims from West Africa were actually doing so, the church launched the Naval Crusade and the brutal slavery of West Africans.
No-the opening phrase of the second chapter WAS NOT meant as a joke, but rather an objectivce view of the old testament from a contemporary viewpoint. Have you ever read the old testament? There is absolutely no arguing with Dawkin's premise.
so why did you go to the refugee camps? Why couldn't god heal those people? Why couldn't god protect them in the first place? Why did god allow Dawkins to write and publish his book, as well as doing many talks on the subject? Why doesn't your god care enough to allow you to upload your video in one piece?
You do not make a good argument. You trying to combat the reason with religious boolshit (I use this word deliberately, since this post was an insult to anybodys intelligence).
"Yap yap yap, this man sure does talk a load of crap before getting to the point"
Times are different now, everything's much faster than it used to be, especially communication.
I don't agree with everything meapanter says, but I think it's great that he's using youtube to share his views, and great that he took the time to read the god delusion.
Exchanging ideas is important. We can all learn from each other, /especially/ when there's disagreement.
Wow guys, relax! The super amped, speeding new media youths don't understand how to sit down for a minute and slowly absorb information!
But I agree: he seems to be using his missionary trips to sound like a credible, good and moral person-- indirectly supporting his religious belief. I didn't like this, and I don't buy it. It is honestly a very ineffective letter and video, which is unfortunate.
Science proves the earth is not at the centre of the solar system. Why for so many years was it believed that this was the case? Hmmm oh yeah I know a bunch of pedo priests said it was so. Science can't ever show religion to be wrong hey. If u want to believe the world is flat and at the centre of the solar system then time will show you to be a fool (Understand the meaning). Galileo and his like showed religion for what it is. I'm Glad to say the door has been opened and there's no going back
Science is correct that the earth in not the centre of the universe. It was believed for all those years because of acient greek philosophers and cosmologers such as Aristotle and Bartolomeu Velho, as well as the majority of educated greeks. One of the founders of the scientific revolution, Copernicus, was catholic, help proved that the earth wasn't the centre. pythagorus, the mathematician, who helped prove the earth was spherical, was "religious". Galileo used scripture to prove his point too
In 1457, the Council of Cardinals met in Holland where they sanctioned, as a righteous and progressive idea, the enslavement of Africans for the purpose of their conversion to Christianity and exploitation in the labour market as chattel property. This satanic scheme gained the sanctimonious blessing of the Pope and became a standard policy of the Catholic Church, and later of the Protestant churches, enduring for three centuries: thus the ghastly traffic in human misery was created.
The modern belief that especially medieval Christianity believed in a flat earth has been referred to as The Myth of the Flat Earth. In 1945, it was listed by the Historical Association as the second of 20 in a pamphlet on common errors in history. Recent scholarship has argued that "with extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century BC onward believed that the earth was flat" and that the prevailing view was of a spherical earth.
Yap yap yap, this man sure does talk a load of crap before getting to the point, well you may see god as all the posetive things you say, but the big but is then, it really doesnt fit what it says on the Bible, and you msut have read that, cause theres a remind of it. But idd guess you had ignored that part...
But offc. on side note, it is my knowledge that Old ppl have a hard time to change and thei rather not, so offc. The God Delution had no effet on you, you ignored!
While courteous, your comments are completely flawed. You state that god is "always" just and merciful, even though the bible is full of counterexamples. You cannot assuage the horrible nature of god as portrayed in the old testament simply by pointing to better behavior in the new testament.
If you can uphold the integrity of YAHWEH as he appears in the old testement ..commanding the death of 20.0000 Canaanites, ammarites..Lots daughter..gays. ..workers on the sabbath, demanding aBRAHAM TO KILL HIS OWN SON.. etc..then good luck...for me ...don't bother ..get busy with yOur excuses for disregarding these acts of immorallity , and jealousy and human faults as demonstrated by YAHWEH in the Old testement. How have you picked and chosen the parts you do agree with.
it might have been an idea to look up what dawkins has said about his book before making this.
he has often said that he did not set out to convert people who believe into people who dont. his aim with this book was to convert those who had never realy thought about it or had never considered atheism.
he has also said over and over about the begining of chapter 2 that it was supposed to be comical to get people engaged.
You haven't attempted to address or refute any of Dawkins' comments. All you've said is, no, you're wrong, God is really great!
That's it?
Are you talking about the God, who while playing a game of Poker with Satan, wagers that his good servant Job's faith could withstand anything his opponent could throw at him.
Job suffers for the all-loving God's vanity?
This is the God who commanded the escaped Hebrews to basically commit genocide on the people they fid in the wilderness?
A circle of darkness, I'm blessed by Satan. Prince of the infernal darkened horde. A circle of flame, I'm touched by Lucifer. The eyes of demons burning with fire. A circle of power, I'm seen by Belial. An emperor of the thousand abysses. A circle of sin, I'm embraced by Leviathan. Guardian of gates beyond this dimension. The four rituals cast in depths of hell. While Lucifer rapes the christian souls. His laughter mixes with their howls of pain. He's laughing as the sheep are raped again.
If God created all this with devine purpose what about the children or older people who are physically, mentally, emoitionally, and sexually assualted. No offense but that does seem like god is very sick and twisted or it was just created to keep the masses under control and religion has stop man from achieving so much, I guess this is what god wanted???
Mr. Panter, you seem like a very nice genteman and if religion and god works for you that is great. But please do not go around like so many others believing it is TRUTH and REALITY.
This might seem like a never ending question but a simple one.
Take into consideration that God can do anything and ANYTHING.
Then here is my question. Can God create a stone so heavy he cannot lift it. It is a yes or no answer. Either he can create it and cannot lift it or he cannot creat it. Thank you.
Remember religion is God and not the reverse. Religion is man made. Without religion there was no god.
16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
That would be what a skeptical thinker calls *PROOF*. Proof of condition one and condition two. Unless you don't believe Jesus knows what he is talking about.
(I could prove them all, but as a good christian you should already know them.)
1) God loves everyone, but no if you don't love him back or "believe", it means absolutely nothing. Your girlfriend could love you with all of her heart, but if you don't love her back, the love she extends is not only useless, but also a waste of her time.
2) This is so dumb, because that would mean every single murderer or God hater would gain entrance into heaven. That does not even make a "lick of sense" Haha, I always wanted to say that.
3) God also will not sit there and watch his creation fall at the hands of satan. Asking god to tolerate our disobedience is like asking him to let us be God in his stead. Which is ridiculous.
If god's love was unconditional, he wouldn't keep killing people becaue the violate his conditions. Supposedly, he killed almost everyone on Earth (Flood story), ordered the genocide of non-Isrealis (their sin: living in the wrong place), and punishing all of us for Adam's fruit theft. That does not sound like love to me.
you think that your position is the only position. for the millionth time you blumbling atheist out there....God is beyond the scope of science. God cannot be proven in a lab.but neither can things like love etc etc. atheism is as much as a belief as theism
you have.. absolutely no idea how dumb that sounded. you CHRISTIANS think the only position is yours, so stfu up with that bullshit. also, love is a feeling. kinda like hate and pleasure. is god a "feeling"?
Do you have any proof of the existence of god? If not, it's time for you to STFU. How is it possible to have multiple advanced degrees and to still be such a blithering idiot? You blather on and on but you offer no proof at all for any of your asinine claims.
Dawkin's is right about the god of the old testament. Unconditional love? Are you mad! This being drowned the whole world except noah and his family, commanded abraham to kill his son then jumped out from behind a bush and said "ha i was only testing you", inflicted pain and suffering on all of humanity for the sins of adam and eve...
However the problem is that the god of the old testiment IS NOT the nice character presented by granpa here. He is indeed violent, he causes crimes and genocides... these can be found in the old testament...
I have on last thing to say. When it all comes down to it, I have experenced God and you cannot prove to me otherwise that I have not. I know what I have felt and how it has made a difference in my life. I don't have to prove to you that God is there. I just thought you should know the truth. This is my last message regarless of your reply unless you have a change of heart. If you do just send me a message and we can talk.
Many people experience God, or Gods if you believe hard enough you can truly cheat yourself into seeing or even talking to them. If people do it with anything else we call them insane. Kids do it with imaginary friends. And you were probably told that there is a God from a young child, You can brainwash kids so much they wont feel anything after killing if you tell them its ok. Your parents did this to you just that they told you there is a God
Why don't people say Buda's, Mohamad's, Zeus' name in movies? I.E. - "Jesus Christ, Why don't you listen to me?" If you hear a song, you know there was a composer. Correct? If there is creation (meaning us) then why can't there be a creator?
People use to say Zeus ... and people do say Mohamed ... just that its not in your country so you dont care. but i tell you this much
RELIGION OF ONE CENTURY IS AN ENTERTAINMENT OF THE NEXT! - some wise man said it and Christianity will end up just like Greek gods, I just hope people will be wise enough not to make up other religion!
If you see a painting, you know that there was a painter. Correct? If you see a building, you know that there was a builder. Correct? If you read a poem, you know that there was a poet. Correct? If you hear a song, you know there was a composer. Correct? If there is creation (meaning us) then why can't there be a creator?
ahh very well. And if you see something that is the most complex thing in our universe, then you just suppose it created itself! If our universe is less complex then God then it is much easier for it to just to exist then for God. If God can just exist why cant universe just exist.
I do appluad you for living such a pure life though. Just one thing where is it getting you? If you don't go to heaven or hell. then what happens to your spirit? You more then just a physical being you know. Even scientists say that.
Tell me witch scientists. How come when somebody cuts out part of our brain we forget some memories or our behavior changes. How come when we do drugs we become totally different person, sometimes parents of children that do drugs and run away cant recognize them when they come back after years. I tell you why because our behavior is connected directly to our brain. If you squish it then you are no longer there you vanish! there is no souls or spirits they a made up thing like unicorns or elves
Let me ask you this. Have you ever takin' a pen from a bank or a clip board somewhere? Then have stolen! Have you ever takin' any asprin or anything like that? Then you have takin' drugs!
Thats exactly what I mean when I say that people that everybody take s bible differently. By taking drugs I mean drugs that alter your personality. Placebo is a drug. food is a drug. I prefer not to take aspirin so I took it couple of times once for a head ache (the rest because my mother told me to!) I usually dont take pills for headache.
About stealing, acts that you do subconsciously arent really your fault so it isnt a sin. And yes I've stolen no subconsciously but I was a Christian then I never stolen since I was an atheist. ruling out the times I forgot to give back a pen before the end of the year, but like I said it wasn't conscious so it doesn't count.
I would say the God of both OT and NT is describing a God, initially imature like a child, Later growing to be more mature and loving. Wanting to be a father and do so. Teaching his son about his love to tell the rest of the world. But I would say God is pretty childish in the OT, so I can't say your description fits.
Dr. Denying the contradictions in the Bible is completely futile. Think, if you read what the Bible says about god, as if it was said about a human being. The medical diagnosis would be; multiple personality disorder, paranoid schizophrenia, mythomania, delusional, only to say a few. He in fact would be diagosed with half of the disorders known to psychiatry. Think about that Dr. You believe in a very sick god.
technicallity. The facts are that your holly book says so many bad things that u can find an excusse to do practically anything. You just skip tyhe bad parts and read the good, so morals dont come from bible or religion but you pick them by yourself. no metter if you belive or not
The reason that you say that, is because you don't understand the Bible. It does not really matter what I say because you will believe what you want. So then how is ok that a murder thinks that it is ok to kill someone but you don't. Those are his set of morals.... If you pick morals yourself, then how do you know what is truly right or wrong.
the reason you say that is because you dont understand the bible (or didnt even read it !). And everybody chooses their morals Christians just do it with justification from false God.
I am a truly moral person. I don't steal, use drugs, drink, I am a virgin and I would never kill a person. I have to think about my actions I dont have any book that tells me what to do. I think about my actions and have no justifications from Gods.
So then where does a murder get there morals? There has to be a foundation for it. And I do read the Bible all the time. Many times people will read it and take it for what they want instead of for what it really is.
I suggest you read a little about Dark Ages. And how your holy religion killed thousands everyday and priests were the worst people there ever were. And Dark ages come after the birth of Jesus
Did you know that just because someone does something in someones name does not mean that they are truly doing it for them. Also just because something is in the Bible does not mean that you should do it. Sometimes things are in the Bible to tell you what not to do.
The truth is that all religions are exaturated and used for evil Muslims can say that their friends just didnt know how to read bible and that why they blew up the twin towers, but if those people didnt believe they wouldnt even thing about blowing themselves up. Fanatics are in all religions and they do harm to this world, I am not saying that atheists are all angels but at least they don't have a award or a justification. They have nothing to exaturate.
You still don't get it. Religion is a stereo type. Christians and religion are not one in the same. A truly Christians would never do something and then justify there actions throuth the Bible. If I was to kill someone it would be my fault. Because I chose to do it. Even if it does say to not or to kill someone. I still have to recieve the punishment for my actions. If you look at each "religion" there is only one major thing different between Christianity and the others, that is a savior.
many religions have saviors. Mohamed for example. And I bet that you were born christian or at least you live in a Christian country. If you were born a Jew, or a muslim you would think that your religion is the only right one. And that no muslim would blow up buildings and use khoran as the justification. Why are you so sure Christianity is right and not the Greek Gods or Jews.
Your right, I have not looked at other rligions but I have relationships with many people that have or that have come from different religions. You still did not anwser my question.
So then where does a murder get there morals? There has to be a foundation for it. And I do read the Bible all the time. Many times people will read it and take it for what they want instead of for what it really is.
Fact: prisons are filled to the brim with religious people. I guess they got those morals from their religions? Or let me guess "those people made choices on their own"? Because religion ALWAYS works, except when it doesn't, which makes it obviously true.
I talked to many religious people and they all think that their religion is right and that it is good. Most people however never read other religions bibles or change from the religion they are born with. So how do you know you arent a christian simply cuz you were born a christian or because you know the most about christianity !
Also have you noticed that this thing blasphemy thing was started against Christians and God not aginst other religions. Also hav you noticed that no ever uses Mohamed or Buda name a curse word. Also have you noticed that God is the most talked about above all religions.
Of course Christianity is different in some ways from other religions. But other religions have things like it too. For example Buddhists never had a religious war. Greeks had the best empire at the time they believed in Zeus. Does it make those religions right?(I would come up with better examples but I don't study religions, know quite a bit of Christianity and thats all)
No it does not make those religions right. There is one thing that the bible has above all other religions, facts. If you ever read the Bible and knew its history you would see why it is true. For example in the Bible it talks about the earth being round long before Christopher Columbus. I don't remember the reference off hand, but I will find it and show it to you.
I read the bible! Bible is so vast that you can find many things that are true there, especially if you interpret them to fit your purpose. All religions say that their holly script is true. But in bible when talking about Christ Matthew and Luke: one says he was always in Bethlehem, other that they traveled there to give birth of their son jesus.
*I made a mistake I meant Jesus's parents when I said he.
I strongly suggest that you read God Delusion from Richard Dawkins. Or read some books about Nostradamus predictions, there are much more accurate then the ones in bible. Also if you didnt know this bible was written after death of jesus and only his disciples saw him after he come back to earth !
Let's say for your sake that there is no God. Are we not both "ok" then, if chose to believe in God? Does it really hurt anyone by me believing in something other then myself? Now lets say that there is a God and you don't believe in him, then your not going to be ok.
Think about this...... If there is no God then why are people trying to disprove His exsistence? If you loose something and you don't look for it you will never, ever find it. The moment that you start looking fot it is when you can find it. The same goes for God. The reason people cannot find him is because they are looking.
If there is no evidence, then why bother? If God does not exist then why try so hard to prove that He does not exist. No one trys hard to prove that Santa, The Easter Bunny, or The Tooth Fairy exist. Even when there is no proof of them either.
Because nobody is stupid enough to believe in Santa, the easter Bunny, and the bloody tooth fairy. If people were dumb enough to believe in these things like they do in religion, then i garentee you logical people would argue against it :)
There was a typo there! "No one trys hard to prove that Santa, The Easter Bunny, or The Tooth Fairy exist." Should be No one trys hard to prove that Santa, The Easter Bunny, or The Tooth Fairy do not exist.
You find your keys, not because you stopped looking, but because on a long enough timeline you will eventually run in to them. However, unlike those keys we will never find any gods because they don't exist.
if you decide to read God Delusion please remain open minded the book might annoy you like Christian books annoy me, but remember that if you remain ignorant and claim a wrong thing simply cuz you lack knowledge. Its not only harmful to you but your children and people who hear your claims.
And I dont agree with you I think bible is false. Same with Khoran etc. Just because bible doesnt mention unicorns instead it mentions miracles it doent mean its true!
Most historians agree that bible is not an accurate description of those times.
So I need to open minded? Yet You will and meany other Athiests wont even consider the Bible to be real. I don't interpet anything that the Bible says. I read it for what it says. I do agree though many people do read it and say that it is for there situation, when really it is talking about something else.
Also have you noticed that God is the most talked about above all religions; well God is a base for most religions, so it makes since that you try to show that god hypothesis is wrong and not just that Christianity or Jews are wrong. Is that what you had in mind?
well to calculate all the sects and Christian religions Christianity is 33% of the words population but it doesnt mean anything! If christians wouldnt kill non Christians in dark ages the religion wouldnt survive! Church spread christianity trough violence throughout the word. If all people that belived that moon is a satellite of earth were killed there wouldnt be any left but it doesn't mean that it isnt !
Don't feel too bad. If an Arab heard me cussing and translated it to friends it would be translated to "AllahDamnit!". Besides how many languages do you speak? Maybe they do blaspheme. Also, people in nonwestern countries have a much more likely probability of being superstitious and thus afraid to take risky chances like using imaginary gods' names in their curses. Unless they are laying a curse on somebody, as in a hex that is.
this is exactly the problem with the bible, people interpret it whatever way they want to the bible says to kill all disobedient children some people just skip that part and then say God is all loving. But some people read it and kill children and then still say that God is all loving. SO how can followers of on book differ so much. How can God allow for it
By the way, someone insulting your wife warrants a rise to her defense. Unlike someone insulting "God", your wife is real, and I should hope you'd jump to her defense. Jumping to God's defense is at best feeble, and at worst delusional.
So let me get this straight. You "read" this highly philosophical book "on a flight" and understood it well enough to formulate a reasoned response? How much time have you dedicated to study of your sacred bible? Yep, just hold fast to your bronze-aged myths. Everything will be alright.
In fact one theologian grappled with the problem of a nasty God of the old testament a few centuries ago. He put it to the R.C. Church that there must be two Gods, a God of the old testament and a God of the New Testament. The new God over powered the old God. The Church simply could not stomach this idea but they would have liked to. I have the video I will upload it part of it.
Dude, that ain't a new idea. That two-Gods thing is Gnosticism, and it's been around for ages. The problem for the Christians is that the entire act of salvation, sacrifice etc, was carried out (in the writers' minds, anyway) makes sense in the context of the old-testament law. To discard the god of the Old testament is to discard the basis of the New, which leaves the Christians with nothing at all.
According to online dictionaries. Dictionary dot com. 'Gnosticism.The doctrines of certain pre-Christian pagan, Jewish, and early Christian sects that valued the revealed knowledge of God and of the origin and end of the human race as a means to attain redemption for the spiritual element in humans and that distinguished the Demiurge from the unknowable Divine Being.'
Yeah. The Demiurge. Right there. The Demiurge, according to the Gnostics, created the world (the True God supposedly could not sully himself with such a task), and is represented in the 'imperfect' old testament God.
For example some one might have built an Ark and got caught in flood water, they might have believed it to be the work of God. But now we know through scientific endeavor (geology) that a flood on such a scale as written in the bible would be impossible. And to take all them creatures aboard?
You seem such pleasant man but you need to grow up and see that these ancient text are nothing more than a figment of the human mind. Some elements of truth will be there of course but on the whole it has become a gross distortion of historical events.
The church therefore had a grave problem. How do you tell the masses that the bible is wrong, after all it is supposed to be the word of God. God wrong? They found a cop out, they started playing on semantics. A day a the bible is not 24 hours but perhaps one hundred million years they argued.
The church then feebly argued that some point along the evolutionary path God decided to give mankind a soul. Brave men and women throughout history suffered terribly because they questioned these pathetic fairy tales.
The R.C. Church eventually had to change its stance because of the overwhelming evidence presented by scientific research, not just by secular scientists but by R.C. Catholic scientists.
I would like to ask you if you believe in evolutionary theory or do you believe in Adam and Eve, Noah, and all the other other rubbish that many for people believed at one time be truth. The R.C. Church persecuted and killed those who questioned it.
Some people cant understand your book (bible), some people can't understand Richards book. Richards book has something tangable. It is not full or fairy tales. So what can't you get?
You are taking facts that suggest Dawkins is right and explaining how it is technically possible for them to be compatible. The bottom line remains: Not one solid fact suggests that any supernatural being exists.
This is about a genuine windbag's world view being challanged. He's going to uphold his god's integrity? In other words, he's going to dispute the evidence to the contrary found in the bible?
Dr. Panter, have you read the same old testament as the rest of us? I think Dawkins comments about the old testament God may have been perjorative, but they were justified. In your letter you made reference yourself to God's righteous, all-consuming and awful judgement. Seriously - come on. As an educated man, whilst you may have views on God, the one described in the old testament was a bit of a monster.
#2) Are you referring to Adam and Eve- original sin? Do you take the Old Testament literally? If yes, you're not worth my time (Levi and Deut make Hitler look like a saint next to God). If no, do you believe Jesus died for Adam/Eve's sin- a story that didn't even happen?
The only difference I see between religious people and drug addicts is that drug addicts use substances to escape reality, whilst religious people use notions of god to escape reality. I don't think their subconcious can handle reality, hence the defence mechanism of a belief in god.. Poor man..
The Abrahamic God is loving? One of the most famous biblical stories is "Sodom and Gamorra"? What does this story tell me about the nature of this God? I see jealousy, genocide, intolerance, sacrifice of virgin daughters for holy strangers. Why include it at all? What a terrible show of love, tolerance, and morality!
Yes, the fact that God said, before Sodom and Gamorra, "I will spare the cities for the sake of 10 righteous men." And only 1 man was righteous in those cities: Lot. And what did God do? He sent 2 angels to tear through crowds and rescue them, and save them from judgment they didn't deserve. How is that not love?
In the civilized world, if someone takes a friendly family out of a city before nuking it to oblivion then offs the wife because she has a moment of doubt, we call it a "crime against humanity". I find it hard to believe that this pillar of morality has resisted leveling Las Vegas for so long.
The lesson? Those that don't adhere to God's moral code will be executed en masse. Centuries later, Christians are baffled by Islamic terrorism.
Love enough to sacrifice His only Son to give you a simple way to eternal life: accepting God and being Good. No more wrathful, mass judgment until the end of times.
Matthew 27:46 "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
At the very end of his life, Jesus displays his uncertainty about why he is dying. Who, then, lets us know that Jesus died for our sins? Who could possibly have that authority?
And why does a loving God feel the need to murder people (S&D,his own son) to recify the shotcomings of humanity? I think human sacrifice is barbaric.
Killing people when your inferiors fall short of your expectations is not something to admire.
Man fell and was doomed to hell for sins. God doesn't allow sin in Heaven, thus Hell stands as the place of all those with sin who die. We had to come to atonement with blood, sacrifices. God decided this should end and sent his only Son to die for us, a final sacrifice: all we must do is accept Him and do Good. It was not murder, but sacrifice.
Furthermore, to answer your verse question: Jesus said those words quoting Pslam 22:1, where it prophesied His crucifixion. By saying those words, it both fulfilled it and led us back to that Psalm, so we may see where it was written before it happened.
And God has the authority to say He died for our sins.
1) Human sacrifice IS murder. This applies to Aztecs, Mayans, Christians, whoever. The practice is barbaric.
2)Far from fulfilling prophesy, a Jewish man quoting Jewish scripture just before his death is pretty standard practice. What's not so standard is choosing the darkest part of the verse- perhaps the darkest thing you could say to God just before you die.
With Jesus dead, how did God let us know that Jesus died for our sins? Why did he not tell Jesus?
1) Jesus willingly paid the cost for our sins. "The greatest love one can show is laying down one's life for a friend." In Jesus' case, He did it for the world. You. Me. He gave His life and was cruficified so we could go to Heaven for simply accepting Him and being Good.
2)Jesus Himself did. He fulfilled the prophesy, and during said so in his own words: "I am the way, the truth and the light; no man cometh unto the father except through me."
So God, in all his kindness, created humans as imperfect then threatened eternal damnation when the imperfections come out. Then, he wrote a book that contained all these threats directed at his children. It is now published around the world. If he were a father of flesh and blood who flaunted his abuses like that, we would send his children to foster care without blinking an eye. What does that say about the emotional trauma God has inflicted on his followers?
Why does God's happiness weigh so heavily on his creation acknowledging him? What kind of insecure, petty, ultraviolent nutjob deals a fate of eternal damnation to his own children?
Then he says he had to sacrifice his son to rectify our sins (again, imagine an abusive father killing one of his sons, then telling the others that it was because of THEM)... but doesn't God make the rules? Couldn't he set it up without people-killing, scare tactics, or emotional abuse?
Realize God gives both great punishment and great reward. His love is as infinite as His wrath. He made humans perfect, they sinned, became imperfect. He gave us an opportunity that still lasts til this day to not deny Him, accept Him, repent, and do Good to be saved and have a place in the kingdom of Heaven. He flaunts no bruises, but judges all. He destroys Evil when it oppresses Good.
Rather, Daddy says, "Do not break this vase." The children take care of it, and he gives them ice cream: they break it, and he spanks them. Think of it on a larger scale. Sin itself is disobedience in origin.
if god is exmanied objectivly from both the old and new testament.... the conclusion is simple: god is a skitzo. or a born again christian.
TheMajinTrunks 2 days ago
DEAR GOD YOU ARE INCREDIBLY DULL
zippidy0 5 months ago
The comparison of the insult of Dawkin's wife, with his attack on 'god' is rediculous. Dawkin's wife is a verifiable, and very real person. Not only that, but if Dawkin's wife was responsible of some of the depictions of god's behaviour in the bible, then she would be open to very justified condemnation.
perydwyn 6 months ago
Curious how a blatant homosexual is defending the bible.
beckykeen 7 months ago
@C0ldhead @ptica11 @bary1234 There is no point posting a video about religion, because atheist find meaning in their life by trying to convince themselves and those around them that there is no meaning. And so thats why, while atheists are a minority in the world, they rule the internet and youtube alike and there is just nothing one can do aside from realizing they are just insecure attention whores who are jealous others have peace and conviction in their life. I feel sorry for them.
dancingwithcalvin 7 months ago
@dancingwithcalvin I feel sorry for you. We have meaning, we seek knowledge and truth. You can not prove what you believe and atheism does not result in people flying planes into buildings or bombing clinics. I assume you are religious, yet you refer to other people as whores. My dear you prove our point that religious people are hypocrites. We don't need to say anything, you hang yourselves with your poorly researched ideas, lack of education and will-full ignorance.
smileyraw 4 months ago
@dancingwithcalvin We do not have time to feel sorry for you, we are busy educating your children, discovering the medicine in your hospital and discovering the technology that saves lives. You might want to ask god to make an appearance so that we can take a break please. Surely he has had a long enough holiday since his apparently very tiring 7 days 3.5 billion years ago.
smileyraw 4 months ago
@smileyraw
I dont believe god made the earth at a certain point in time. Almost all hospitals are named after saints, because saints and nuns and monks were a select group of people who dedicated their lives to helping others in the name of god. Dont get me started on education.
dancingwithcalvin 4 months ago
Religion is such embarrassing nonsense. Its astonishing these superstitions still exist.
bary1234 8 months ago
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!! If believing in god makes you this boring count me out!
jamesdenistyler 8 months ago
@r34d7h3616l3 but god wanted him to ...and he was happy to recieve sacrifices ...look at LOT and the many examples of YAHWEH needing a sacrifice...WHY?
thomasbryn1 1 year ago
@r34d7h3616l3 it wasn't preaching for the converted it was for theists, fairly obviously if you think about it. Kthnkxbye
jenko4292 1 year ago
he probably cant read at all
gerald345 1 year ago
Disappointing refutation. This part of the book is intended to be funny while also making the point that the multiple personalities of this god.
You suggest he talks about this god as if it exists which makes no sense. He specifically refers to it as a fictional character. Even if he didn't, would you have the same issue with someone who talked about Romeo and Juliette? do we have to believe they exist to talk about them?
BipedalHumanoid 1 year ago
the god delusion rules.
agent12803 2 years ago
Comment removed
chamallowbleu 2 years ago
I also think that god is genocidal, racist, homophobic, misogynist, jealous, and easily offended Caveman.
Jemilhu 2 years ago
8 minutes and basically all you've said done is accuse Dawkins of cherry-picking, and then, presumably by cherry-picking yourself, you've come to the exact opposite conclusion.
Well that's 8 minutes of my life I won't get back
m1ll10n1977 2 years ago
Does anybody know if or when Richard Dawkins might be comming to Australia?
Azurju 2 years ago
the eaerth is the proper distance from the sun for life which shows God is merciful to life and is good,therefore a good reason to believe in a good God.Jesus dying in the place of sinners on a cruel cross, and all we have to do is put our faith and trust in Jesus as our God and saviour and turn from our sins, to inherit eternal happiness in paradise,also shows Gods love
bibliosca 2 years ago
It shows that you only act ethically if you think you are going to be rewarded with a place in heaven, pretty self centered if you ask me.
tomwash1 2 years ago
i believe God is the watcher not the creator. He keeps the fundamentals of the universe in order. The reason life grew from the Earth, is because of what you just said (minus the God part) because of the Earth being the perfect distance from the sun life came from their. Not because God created it.
pickledfish64 2 years ago
I think you replied to me by mistake pickledfish. You should have addressed that comment to bibliosca.
tomwash1 2 years ago
Yep, still putting your god in front of any idea of reason or understanding of humanity.
Pikachu879 2 years ago
You do realize that Dawkins referred to the "god of the bible" as a "character in fiction." It's pretty easy to back up all of Dawkins' epithets, given that he flooded the world, had his son killed, ordered the genocide of gerico etc. etc. What your stance shows is that (like Dawkins) you are selectively interpreting god as you like him. The difference is that Dawkins admits this fact, and you think your interpretation is "true." You might as well be interpreting Gandalf - it's fiction!
psusac 2 years ago
Vern from the Irrational squad " Can we quote you as a Doctor"
irrationalsquad1969 2 years ago
Can't get to the point, goes round in circles
safetheory 2 years ago
Ancient Egyptians knew the world was round and one of the first countries that the Arabs brought the Last Message to, was Egypt in 641/2 AD.
One of the first Islamic universities was built in Egypt, namely Al-Azhar. Furthermore, it is alleged that Muslims studied Greek works including Ptolemy who wrote the world was round.
When the Church discovered that Muslims from West Africa were actually doing so, the church launched the Naval Crusade and the brutal slavery of West Africans.
TeslaSagan 3 years ago
Are you deluded or what?
kamikazee100 3 years ago
No-the opening phrase of the second chapter WAS NOT meant as a joke, but rather an objectivce view of the old testament from a contemporary viewpoint. Have you ever read the old testament? There is absolutely no arguing with Dawkin's premise.
KhalenBones 3 years ago
The opening phrase was meant as a joke. But anyway, I give you credit for being open minded enough to read The God Delusion.
quinn2469 3 years ago
what kind of doctor is he.
adlerbr12 3 years ago
Zoology, I presume.
xXFlyspeckXx 3 years ago
so why did you go to the refugee camps? Why couldn't god heal those people? Why couldn't god protect them in the first place? Why did god allow Dawkins to write and publish his book, as well as doing many talks on the subject? Why doesn't your god care enough to allow you to upload your video in one piece?
Cowinspace 3 years ago
not long left now buddy ;)
ribsot 3 years ago
You do not make a good argument. You trying to combat the reason with religious boolshit (I use this word deliberately, since this post was an insult to anybodys intelligence).
cheburashka1326 3 years ago
can't be bothered....
adkingcreative 3 years ago
omg, cute D8
millipedexxxprincess 3 years ago
"Yap yap yap, this man sure does talk a load of crap before getting to the point"
Times are different now, everything's much faster than it used to be, especially communication.
I don't agree with everything meapanter says, but I think it's great that he's using youtube to share his views, and great that he took the time to read the god delusion.
Exchanging ideas is important. We can all learn from each other, /especially/ when there's disagreement.
deBeuk 3 years ago
Wow guys, relax! The super amped, speeding new media youths don't understand how to sit down for a minute and slowly absorb information!
But I agree: he seems to be using his missionary trips to sound like a credible, good and moral person-- indirectly supporting his religious belief. I didn't like this, and I don't buy it. It is honestly a very ineffective letter and video, which is unfortunate.
petexii 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Science proves the earth is not at the centre of the solar system. Why for so many years was it believed that this was the case? Hmmm oh yeah I know a bunch of pedo priests said it was so. Science can't ever show religion to be wrong hey. If u want to believe the world is flat and at the centre of the solar system then time will show you to be a fool (Understand the meaning). Galileo and his like showed religion for what it is. I'm Glad to say the door has been opened and there's no going back
TeslaSagan 3 years ago 3
Science is correct that the earth in not the centre of the universe. It was believed for all those years because of acient greek philosophers and cosmologers such as Aristotle and Bartolomeu Velho, as well as the majority of educated greeks. One of the founders of the scientific revolution, Copernicus, was catholic, help proved that the earth wasn't the centre. pythagorus, the mathematician, who helped prove the earth was spherical, was "religious". Galileo used scripture to prove his point too
Mjh1121986 3 years ago
In 1457, the Council of Cardinals met in Holland where they sanctioned, as a righteous and progressive idea, the enslavement of Africans for the purpose of their conversion to Christianity and exploitation in the labour market as chattel property. This satanic scheme gained the sanctimonious blessing of the Pope and became a standard policy of the Catholic Church, and later of the Protestant churches, enduring for three centuries: thus the ghastly traffic in human misery was created.
TeslaSagan 3 years ago
The modern belief that especially medieval Christianity believed in a flat earth has been referred to as The Myth of the Flat Earth. In 1945, it was listed by the Historical Association as the second of 20 in a pamphlet on common errors in history. Recent scholarship has argued that "with extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century BC onward believed that the earth was flat" and that the prevailing view was of a spherical earth.
TeslaSagan 3 years ago
You obviously belong to an old generation,
SO you can have all sorts of imaginary beliefs.
Old man, You WILL DIE, No imaginary god can prevent that. And yeah, everybody's lives have PROBLEMS, No imaginary god can prevent that.
So feel free to imagine what ever you want, WHILE YOU ARE Still alive.
But Just SHUT UP and do it in your sleepy mind.
sikurzu 3 years ago
You obviously belong to an old generation,
SO you can have all sorts of imaginary beliefs.
Old man, You WILL DIE, No imaginary god can prevent that. And yeah, everybody's lives have PROBLEMS, No imaginary god can prevent that.
So feel free to imagine what ever you want, WHILE YOU ARE Still alive.
sikurzu 3 years ago
Yap yap yap, this man sure does talk a load of crap before getting to the point, well you may see god as all the posetive things you say, but the big but is then, it really doesnt fit what it says on the Bible, and you msut have read that, cause theres a remind of it. But idd guess you had ignored that part...
But offc. on side note, it is my knowledge that Old ppl have a hard time to change and thei rather not, so offc. The God Delution had no effet on you, you ignored!
Awesome Love C0ldhead
C0ldhead 3 years ago 6
While courteous, your comments are completely flawed. You state that god is "always" just and merciful, even though the bible is full of counterexamples. You cannot assuage the horrible nature of god as portrayed in the old testament simply by pointing to better behavior in the new testament.
ReasonSaves 3 years ago 4
this guy clearly never read the bible
ptica11 3 years ago 6
You bloody sad dodering old nutcase, I feel embarrassed for you... I really do.
Honestjosh44 3 years ago
I do not have the time to listen to this. I only live once.
jumbowhite 3 years ago
If you can uphold the integrity of YAHWEH as he appears in the old testement ..commanding the death of 20.0000 Canaanites, ammarites..Lots daughter..gays. ..workers on the sabbath, demanding aBRAHAM TO KILL HIS OWN SON.. etc..then good luck...for me ...don't bother ..get busy with yOur excuses for disregarding these acts of immorallity , and jealousy and human faults as demonstrated by YAHWEH in the Old testement. How have you picked and chosen the parts you do agree with.
thomasbryn1 3 years ago
eeeeeeeerrm have you read the book ...perhaps a reference to the points made in it might help. go on..... have a go.
thomasbryn1 3 years ago
it might have been an idea to look up what dawkins has said about his book before making this.
he has often said that he did not set out to convert people who believe into people who dont. his aim with this book was to convert those who had never realy thought about it or had never considered atheism.
he has also said over and over about the begining of chapter 2 that it was supposed to be comical to get people engaged.
Brettah31 3 years ago
i like a good argument against religious people but your argument in part1 is so non existant that i dont need to argue anything.
ustickx 3 years ago
You haven't attempted to address or refute any of Dawkins' comments. All you've said is, no, you're wrong, God is really great!
That's it?
Are you talking about the God, who while playing a game of Poker with Satan, wagers that his good servant Job's faith could withstand anything his opponent could throw at him.
Job suffers for the all-loving God's vanity?
This is the God who commanded the escaped Hebrews to basically commit genocide on the people they fid in the wilderness?
Are you joking?
leeroynaggins 3 years ago
TheDarkLordLucifer 3 years ago
Your all blind!
guitarguru2006 3 years ago
You're old. Go die of a heart attack.
ThereIsNoSheep 3 years ago
If God created all this with devine purpose what about the children or older people who are physically, mentally, emoitionally, and sexually assualted. No offense but that does seem like god is very sick and twisted or it was just created to keep the masses under control and religion has stop man from achieving so much, I guess this is what god wanted???
mypeener 4 years ago
Mr. Panter, you seem like a very nice genteman and if religion and god works for you that is great. But please do not go around like so many others believing it is TRUTH and REALITY.
mypeener 4 years ago
to all believers of a God system and world.
This might seem like a never ending question but a simple one.
Take into consideration that God can do anything and ANYTHING.
Then here is my question. Can God create a stone so heavy he cannot lift it. It is a yes or no answer. Either he can create it and cannot lift it or he cannot creat it. Thank you.
Remember religion is God and not the reverse. Religion is man made. Without religion there was no god.
mypeener 4 years ago
7:23
"....God's love is unconditional...."
Even a Christian can not say this.
You have to believe...condition 1
Be baptised...condition 2
Live according to his word...condition 3
Have only this God as your God...condition 4
Not be Homosexual...condition 5 and the list goes on and on.....
This is the definition of conditional love!
So please do, at least, try to unederstand your own tripe before you try to sling it on someone else. I can't wait to see part 2...
dmosier 4 years ago
WOW
Aren't you mistaken/ deprived or any combination of the two
geeuho 4 years ago
Mark 16:16 (NIV)
16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
That would be what a skeptical thinker calls *PROOF*. Proof of condition one and condition two. Unless you don't believe Jesus knows what he is talking about.
(I could prove them all, but as a good christian you should already know them.)
I have proven I am not mistaken.
And so what if I am deprived?
You don't even know your own religion.
dmosier 4 years ago
Lol....you are deprived.
No more verses? Ok then.
1) God loves everyone, but no if you don't love him back or "believe", it means absolutely nothing. Your girlfriend could love you with all of her heart, but if you don't love her back, the love she extends is not only useless, but also a waste of her time.
2) This is so dumb, because that would mean every single murderer or God hater would gain entrance into heaven. That does not even make a "lick of sense" Haha, I always wanted to say that.
geeuho 4 years ago 2
3) God also will not sit there and watch his creation fall at the hands of satan. Asking god to tolerate our disobedience is like asking him to let us be God in his stead. Which is ridiculous.
geeuho 4 years ago
If god's love was unconditional, he wouldn't keep killing people becaue the violate his conditions. Supposedly, he killed almost everyone on Earth (Flood story), ordered the genocide of non-Isrealis (their sin: living in the wrong place), and punishing all of us for Adam's fruit theft. That does not sound like love to me.
RationalSkeptic 4 years ago 3
you know the problem with all you atheist??
you think that your position is the only position. for the millionth time you blumbling atheist out there....God is beyond the scope of science. God cannot be proven in a lab.but neither can things like love etc etc. atheism is as much as a belief as theism
jsalmons77 4 years ago
1 We know the other positions and their flawds
2 God can be explained, Richard does nicely
3 Love can be explained with biochemistry
4 this kind of atheism (scientific) is belief in evidence and reason
smurtsmarf 4 years ago 2
you have.. absolutely no idea how dumb that sounded. you CHRISTIANS think the only position is yours, so stfu up with that bullshit. also, love is a feeling. kinda like hate and pleasure. is god a "feeling"?
cheeseclo 4 years ago 2
Do you have any proof of the existence of god? If not, it's time for you to STFU. How is it possible to have multiple advanced degrees and to still be such a blithering idiot? You blather on and on but you offer no proof at all for any of your asinine claims.
carcosa 4 years ago
Dawkin's is right about the god of the old testament. Unconditional love? Are you mad! This being drowned the whole world except noah and his family, commanded abraham to kill his son then jumped out from behind a bush and said "ha i was only testing you", inflicted pain and suffering on all of humanity for the sins of adam and eve...
dirtydude212 4 years ago
Dawkins is trying to do you a favor you old fool, listen to him. "The only being visible or invisible" LMFAO...
RayNinblood 4 years ago
haha. yeah. but people are too delusional and idiotic to realize that what they believe is fucking STUPID.
cheeseclo 4 years ago
However the problem is that the god of the old testiment IS NOT the nice character presented by granpa here. He is indeed violent, he causes crimes and genocides... these can be found in the old testament...
kzelia 4 years ago
I have on last thing to say. When it all comes down to it, I have experenced God and you cannot prove to me otherwise that I have not. I know what I have felt and how it has made a difference in my life. I don't have to prove to you that God is there. I just thought you should know the truth. This is my last message regarless of your reply unless you have a change of heart. If you do just send me a message and we can talk.
ND1612 4 years ago
Many people experience God, or Gods if you believe hard enough you can truly cheat yourself into seeing or even talking to them. If people do it with anything else we call them insane. Kids do it with imaginary friends. And you were probably told that there is a God from a young child, You can brainwash kids so much they wont feel anything after killing if you tell them its ok. Your parents did this to you just that they told you there is a God
princeofexcess 4 years ago
Why don't people say Buda's, Mohamad's, Zeus' name in movies? I.E. - "Jesus Christ, Why don't you listen to me?" If you hear a song, you know there was a composer. Correct? If there is creation (meaning us) then why can't there be a creator?
ND1612 4 years ago
People use to say Zeus ... and people do say Mohamed ... just that its not in your country so you dont care. but i tell you this much
RELIGION OF ONE CENTURY IS AN ENTERTAINMENT OF THE NEXT! - some wise man said it and Christianity will end up just like Greek gods, I just hope people will be wise enough not to make up other religion!
princeofexcess 4 years ago
If you see a painting, you know that there was a painter. Correct? If you see a building, you know that there was a builder. Correct? If you read a poem, you know that there was a poet. Correct? If you hear a song, you know there was a composer. Correct? If there is creation (meaning us) then why can't there be a creator?
ND1612 4 years ago
ahh very well. And if you see something that is the most complex thing in our universe, then you just suppose it created itself! If our universe is less complex then God then it is much easier for it to just to exist then for God. If God can just exist why cant universe just exist.
princeofexcess 4 years ago
I do appluad you for living such a pure life though. Just one thing where is it getting you? If you don't go to heaven or hell. then what happens to your spirit? You more then just a physical being you know. Even scientists say that.
ND1612 4 years ago
Tell me witch scientists. How come when somebody cuts out part of our brain we forget some memories or our behavior changes. How come when we do drugs we become totally different person, sometimes parents of children that do drugs and run away cant recognize them when they come back after years. I tell you why because our behavior is connected directly to our brain. If you squish it then you are no longer there you vanish! there is no souls or spirits they a made up thing like unicorns or elves
princeofexcess 4 years ago
Let me ask you this. Have you ever takin' a pen from a bank or a clip board somewhere? Then have stolen! Have you ever takin' any asprin or anything like that? Then you have takin' drugs!
ND1612 4 years ago
Thats exactly what I mean when I say that people that everybody take s bible differently. By taking drugs I mean drugs that alter your personality. Placebo is a drug. food is a drug. I prefer not to take aspirin so I took it couple of times once for a head ache (the rest because my mother told me to!) I usually dont take pills for headache.
princeofexcess 4 years ago
About stealing, acts that you do subconsciously arent really your fault so it isnt a sin. And yes I've stolen no subconsciously but I was a Christian then I never stolen since I was an atheist. ruling out the times I forgot to give back a pen before the end of the year, but like I said it wasn't conscious so it doesn't count.
princeofexcess 4 years ago
I would say the God of both OT and NT is describing a God, initially imature like a child, Later growing to be more mature and loving. Wanting to be a father and do so. Teaching his son about his love to tell the rest of the world. But I would say God is pretty childish in the OT, so I can't say your description fits.
Censeo 4 years ago
The bible is find piece of fantasy and action second only to Lord of the Rings.
deekeeley83 4 years ago
Dr. Denying the contradictions in the Bible is completely futile. Think, if you read what the Bible says about god, as if it was said about a human being. The medical diagnosis would be; multiple personality disorder, paranoid schizophrenia, mythomania, delusional, only to say a few. He in fact would be diagosed with half of the disorders known to psychiatry. Think about that Dr. You believe in a very sick god.
erospix 4 years ago
Atheist have no excuse to kill homosexuals... but Christians do it says it right there to stone them!
So not all Christians are evil... they just have an excuse to be because instead of thinking they follow a book that was written by barbaric people.
princeofexcess 4 years ago
Did you know that the word "Christian" was not introduced until the new testament? So your statement about Christians stoning homosexuals is false.
ND1612 4 years ago
technicallity. The facts are that your holly book says so many bad things that u can find an excusse to do practically anything. You just skip tyhe bad parts and read the good, so morals dont come from bible or religion but you pick them by yourself. no metter if you belive or not
princeofexcess 4 years ago
The reason that you say that, is because you don't understand the Bible. It does not really matter what I say because you will believe what you want. So then how is ok that a murder thinks that it is ok to kill someone but you don't. Those are his set of morals.... If you pick morals yourself, then how do you know what is truly right or wrong.
ND1612 4 years ago
the reason you say that is because you dont understand the bible (or didnt even read it !). And everybody chooses their morals Christians just do it with justification from false God.
I am a truly moral person. I don't steal, use drugs, drink, I am a virgin and I would never kill a person. I have to think about my actions I dont have any book that tells me what to do. I think about my actions and have no justifications from Gods.
princeofexcess 4 years ago
So then where does a murder get there morals? There has to be a foundation for it. And I do read the Bible all the time. Many times people will read it and take it for what they want instead of for what it really is.
ND1612 4 years ago
A good foundation for murderer morals is the Bible. It's full of murder. I would recommend that to murderers.
feraltoad 3 years ago
nonsens
nh1404 3 years ago
I suggest you read a little about Dark Ages. And how your holy religion killed thousands everyday and priests were the worst people there ever were. And Dark ages come after the birth of Jesus
princeofexcess 4 years ago
Did you know that just because someone does something in someones name does not mean that they are truly doing it for them. Also just because something is in the Bible does not mean that you should do it. Sometimes things are in the Bible to tell you what not to do.
ND1612 4 years ago
The truth is that all religions are exaturated and used for evil Muslims can say that their friends just didnt know how to read bible and that why they blew up the twin towers, but if those people didnt believe they wouldnt even thing about blowing themselves up. Fanatics are in all religions and they do harm to this world, I am not saying that atheists are all angels but at least they don't have a award or a justification. They have nothing to exaturate.
princeofexcess 4 years ago
You still don't get it. Religion is a stereo type. Christians and religion are not one in the same. A truly Christians would never do something and then justify there actions throuth the Bible. If I was to kill someone it would be my fault. Because I chose to do it. Even if it does say to not or to kill someone. I still have to recieve the punishment for my actions. If you look at each "religion" there is only one major thing different between Christianity and the others, that is a savior.
ND1612 4 years ago
many religions have saviors. Mohamed for example. And I bet that you were born christian or at least you live in a Christian country. If you were born a Jew, or a muslim you would think that your religion is the only right one. And that no muslim would blow up buildings and use khoran as the justification. Why are you so sure Christianity is right and not the Greek Gods or Jews.
princeofexcess 4 years ago
Your right, I have not looked at other rligions but I have relationships with many people that have or that have come from different religions. You still did not anwser my question.
ND1612 4 years ago
Sry I must have not seen it could you rephrase it cause I cant find it. :(
princeofexcess 4 years ago
So then where does a murder get there morals? There has to be a foundation for it. And I do read the Bible all the time. Many times people will read it and take it for what they want instead of for what it really is.
ND1612 4 years ago
Fact: prisons are filled to the brim with religious people. I guess they got those morals from their religions? Or let me guess "those people made choices on their own"? Because religion ALWAYS works, except when it doesn't, which makes it obviously true.
feraltoad 3 years ago
I talked to many religious people and they all think that their religion is right and that it is good. Most people however never read other religions bibles or change from the religion they are born with. So how do you know you arent a christian simply cuz you were born a christian or because you know the most about christianity !
princeofexcess 4 years ago
Also have you noticed that this thing blasphemy thing was started against Christians and God not aginst other religions. Also hav you noticed that no ever uses Mohamed or Buda name a curse word. Also have you noticed that God is the most talked about above all religions.
ND1612 4 years ago
Of course Christianity is different in some ways from other religions. But other religions have things like it too. For example Buddhists never had a religious war. Greeks had the best empire at the time they believed in Zeus. Does it make those religions right?(I would come up with better examples but I don't study religions, know quite a bit of Christianity and thats all)
princeofexcess 4 years ago
No it does not make those religions right. There is one thing that the bible has above all other religions, facts. If you ever read the Bible and knew its history you would see why it is true. For example in the Bible it talks about the earth being round long before Christopher Columbus. I don't remember the reference off hand, but I will find it and show it to you.
ND1612 4 years ago
I read the bible! Bible is so vast that you can find many things that are true there, especially if you interpret them to fit your purpose. All religions say that their holly script is true. But in bible when talking about Christ Matthew and Luke: one says he was always in Bethlehem, other that they traveled there to give birth of their son jesus.
princeofexcess 4 years ago
*I made a mistake I meant Jesus's parents when I said he.
I strongly suggest that you read God Delusion from Richard Dawkins. Or read some books about Nostradamus predictions, there are much more accurate then the ones in bible. Also if you didnt know this bible was written after death of jesus and only his disciples saw him after he come back to earth !
princeofexcess 4 years ago
Let's say for your sake that there is no God. Are we not both "ok" then, if chose to believe in God? Does it really hurt anyone by me believing in something other then myself? Now lets say that there is a God and you don't believe in him, then your not going to be ok.
ND1612 4 years ago
Think about this...... If there is no God then why are people trying to disprove His exsistence? If you loose something and you don't look for it you will never, ever find it. The moment that you start looking fot it is when you can find it. The same goes for God. The reason people cannot find him is because they are looking.
ND1612 4 years ago
Thats the most stupid logic I've heard. People are trying to disprove "His" existence because there is NO evidence of God. Think about it.
hedzzz 4 years ago
If there is no evidence, then why bother? If God does not exist then why try so hard to prove that He does not exist. No one trys hard to prove that Santa, The Easter Bunny, or The Tooth Fairy exist. Even when there is no proof of them either.
ND1612 4 years ago
Because nobody is stupid enough to believe in Santa, the easter Bunny, and the bloody tooth fairy. If people were dumb enough to believe in these things like they do in religion, then i garentee you logical people would argue against it :)
SamHarrisisBrilliant 4 years ago
There was a typo there! "No one trys hard to prove that Santa, The Easter Bunny, or The Tooth Fairy exist." Should be No one trys hard to prove that Santa, The Easter Bunny, or The Tooth Fairy do not exist.
ND1612 4 years ago
You find your keys, not because you stopped looking, but because on a long enough timeline you will eventually run in to them. However, unlike those keys we will never find any gods because they don't exist.
feraltoad 3 years ago
if you decide to read God Delusion please remain open minded the book might annoy you like Christian books annoy me, but remember that if you remain ignorant and claim a wrong thing simply cuz you lack knowledge. Its not only harmful to you but your children and people who hear your claims.
princeofexcess 4 years ago
The funny thing is that you tell me that the book that you read is more accurate, but how do I know that? Because you said so?
ND1612 4 years ago
And I dont agree with you I think bible is false. Same with Khoran etc. Just because bible doesnt mention unicorns instead it mentions miracles it doent mean its true!
Most historians agree that bible is not an accurate description of those times.
princeofexcess 4 years ago
So I need to open minded? Yet You will and meany other Athiests wont even consider the Bible to be real. I don't interpet anything that the Bible says. I read it for what it says. I do agree though many people do read it and say that it is for there situation, when really it is talking about something else.
ND1612 4 years ago
Also have you noticed that God is the most talked about above all religions; well God is a base for most religions, so it makes since that you try to show that god hypothesis is wrong and not just that Christianity or Jews are wrong. Is that what you had in mind?
princeofexcess 4 years ago
I meant the "Christian" God.
ND1612 4 years ago
well to calculate all the sects and Christian religions Christianity is 33% of the words population but it doesnt mean anything! If christians wouldnt kill non Christians in dark ages the religion wouldnt survive! Church spread christianity trough violence throughout the word. If all people that belived that moon is a satellite of earth were killed there wouldnt be any left but it doesn't mean that it isnt !
princeofexcess 4 years ago
Don't feel too bad. If an Arab heard me cussing and translated it to friends it would be translated to "AllahDamnit!". Besides how many languages do you speak? Maybe they do blaspheme. Also, people in nonwestern countries have a much more likely probability of being superstitious and thus afraid to take risky chances like using imaginary gods' names in their curses. Unless they are laying a curse on somebody, as in a hex that is.
feraltoad 3 years ago
this is exactly the problem with the bible, people interpret it whatever way they want to the bible says to kill all disobedient children some people just skip that part and then say God is all loving. But some people read it and kill children and then still say that God is all loving. SO how can followers of on book differ so much. How can God allow for it
princeofexcess 4 years ago
He mentions his wife's name quite often in the book.
(Lalla Ward)
sonata1992 4 years ago
By the way, someone insulting your wife warrants a rise to her defense. Unlike someone insulting "God", your wife is real, and I should hope you'd jump to her defense. Jumping to God's defense is at best feeble, and at worst delusional.
calgaryshadi 4 years ago
So let me get this straight. You "read" this highly philosophical book "on a flight" and understood it well enough to formulate a reasoned response? How much time have you dedicated to study of your sacred bible? Yep, just hold fast to your bronze-aged myths. Everything will be alright.
calgaryshadi 4 years ago
This man makes his god sound like a jeckle and hyde character. Nice during the day nasty at night.
DrMontague 4 years ago
I never said it was a new idea. I only bring the issue up for those people who might not be aware of the argument.
DrMontague 4 years ago
I cannot find any source that states that it is to do with two gods i.e. a god of the old testament and a god of the new testament.
DrMontague 4 years ago
utter waffle
OLI2468 4 years ago
In fact one theologian grappled with the problem of a nasty God of the old testament a few centuries ago. He put it to the R.C. Church that there must be two Gods, a God of the old testament and a God of the New Testament. The new God over powered the old God. The Church simply could not stomach this idea but they would have liked to. I have the video I will upload it part of it.
DrMontague 4 years ago
Dude, that ain't a new idea. That two-Gods thing is Gnosticism, and it's been around for ages. The problem for the Christians is that the entire act of salvation, sacrifice etc, was carried out (in the writers' minds, anyway) makes sense in the context of the old-testament law. To discard the god of the Old testament is to discard the basis of the New, which leaves the Christians with nothing at all.
siIentmatt 4 years ago
According to online dictionaries. Dictionary dot com. 'Gnosticism.The doctrines of certain pre-Christian pagan, Jewish, and early Christian sects that valued the revealed knowledge of God and of the origin and end of the human race as a means to attain redemption for the spiritual element in humans and that distinguished the Demiurge from the unknowable Divine Being.'
DrMontague 4 years ago
Yeah. The Demiurge. Right there. The Demiurge, according to the Gnostics, created the world (the True God supposedly could not sully himself with such a task), and is represented in the 'imperfect' old testament God.
siIentmatt 4 years ago
For example some one might have built an Ark and got caught in flood water, they might have believed it to be the work of God. But now we know through scientific endeavor (geology) that a flood on such a scale as written in the bible would be impossible. And to take all them creatures aboard?
DrMontague 4 years ago
You seem such pleasant man but you need to grow up and see that these ancient text are nothing more than a figment of the human mind. Some elements of truth will be there of course but on the whole it has become a gross distortion of historical events.
DrMontague 4 years ago
The church therefore had a grave problem. How do you tell the masses that the bible is wrong, after all it is supposed to be the word of God. God wrong? They found a cop out, they started playing on semantics. A day a the bible is not 24 hours but perhaps one hundred million years they argued.
DrMontague 4 years ago
The church then feebly argued that some point along the evolutionary path God decided to give mankind a soul. Brave men and women throughout history suffered terribly because they questioned these pathetic fairy tales.
DrMontague 4 years ago
The R.C. Church eventually had to change its stance because of the overwhelming evidence presented by scientific research, not just by secular scientists but by R.C. Catholic scientists.
DrMontague 4 years ago
I would like to ask you if you believe in evolutionary theory or do you believe in Adam and Eve, Noah, and all the other other rubbish that many for people believed at one time be truth. The R.C. Church persecuted and killed those who questioned it.
DrMontague 4 years ago
Some people cant understand your book (bible), some people can't understand Richards book. Richards book has something tangable. It is not full or fairy tales. So what can't you get?
JimTL1000R 4 years ago
If you read the old testament, all of those things that Dawkins said about god are true. So the only way you could defend god is to say that
A. Those are all good qualities : (
B. The old testament is complete bunk : )
macman13 4 years ago
OMG, he is seriously defending gods Honor? Shouldn't god do that himself, better yet why would god care if Dawkins said anything.
AtheisticBuddhist 4 years ago
Please read Richard Dawkins book again!
southo32 4 years ago
You are taking facts that suggest Dawkins is right and explaining how it is technically possible for them to be compatible. The bottom line remains: Not one solid fact suggests that any supernatural being exists.
cryptographix 4 years ago
You can't teach an old dog new tricks
Tybalt1987 4 years ago
This is about a genuine windbag's world view being challanged. He's going to uphold his god's integrity? In other words, he's going to dispute the evidence to the contrary found in the bible?
rrleblanc 4 years ago
Dr. Panter, have you read the same old testament as the rest of us? I think Dawkins comments about the old testament God may have been perjorative, but they were justified. In your letter you made reference yourself to God's righteous, all-consuming and awful judgement. Seriously - come on. As an educated man, whilst you may have views on God, the one described in the old testament was a bit of a monster.
colin5577 4 years ago
#1) Who made the vase?
#2) Are you referring to Adam and Eve- original sin? Do you take the Old Testament literally? If yes, you're not worth my time (Levi and Deut make Hitler look like a saint next to God). If no, do you believe Jesus died for Adam/Eve's sin- a story that didn't even happen?
wormyworm1984 4 years ago
Seems like a nice old fellow. At least he took the time to read Dawkins book, unlike some of Dawkins attackers.
DejectedPanda 4 years ago
The only difference I see between religious people and drug addicts is that drug addicts use substances to escape reality, whilst religious people use notions of god to escape reality. I don't think their subconcious can handle reality, hence the defence mechanism of a belief in god.. Poor man..
mikearnette 4 years ago
"The god of the bible is arguably the most... loving entity in the universe- supremely just and righteous in all of his ways."
Are you serious? Did you even read The God Delusion? You're dillusional.
wormyworm1984 4 years ago
He read the God Delusion before criticizing: how many of you quacks have ever read the Bible before criticizing? I mean *reading* it.
Seveninat0r 4 years ago
The Abrahamic God is loving? One of the most famous biblical stories is "Sodom and Gamorra"? What does this story tell me about the nature of this God? I see jealousy, genocide, intolerance, sacrifice of virgin daughters for holy strangers. Why include it at all? What a terrible show of love, tolerance, and morality!
wormyworm1984 4 years ago
Yes, the fact that God said, before Sodom and Gamorra, "I will spare the cities for the sake of 10 righteous men." And only 1 man was righteous in those cities: Lot. And what did God do? He sent 2 angels to tear through crowds and rescue them, and save them from judgment they didn't deserve. How is that not love?
Seveninat0r 4 years ago
In the civilized world, if someone takes a friendly family out of a city before nuking it to oblivion then offs the wife because she has a moment of doubt, we call it a "crime against humanity". I find it hard to believe that this pillar of morality has resisted leveling Las Vegas for so long.
The lesson? Those that don't adhere to God's moral code will be executed en masse. Centuries later, Christians are baffled by Islamic terrorism.
Love?
wormyworm1984 4 years ago
Love enough to sacrifice His only Son to give you a simple way to eternal life: accepting God and being Good. No more wrathful, mass judgment until the end of times.
Seveninat0r 4 years ago
Matthew 27:46 "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
At the very end of his life, Jesus displays his uncertainty about why he is dying. Who, then, lets us know that Jesus died for our sins? Who could possibly have that authority?
And why does a loving God feel the need to murder people (S&D,his own son) to recify the shotcomings of humanity? I think human sacrifice is barbaric.
Killing people when your inferiors fall short of your expectations is not something to admire.
wormyworm1984 4 years ago
Man fell and was doomed to hell for sins. God doesn't allow sin in Heaven, thus Hell stands as the place of all those with sin who die. We had to come to atonement with blood, sacrifices. God decided this should end and sent his only Son to die for us, a final sacrifice: all we must do is accept Him and do Good. It was not murder, but sacrifice.
Seveninat0r 4 years ago
Furthermore, to answer your verse question: Jesus said those words quoting Pslam 22:1, where it prophesied His crucifixion. By saying those words, it both fulfilled it and led us back to that Psalm, so we may see where it was written before it happened.
And God has the authority to say He died for our sins.
Seveninat0r 4 years ago
1) Human sacrifice IS murder. This applies to Aztecs, Mayans, Christians, whoever. The practice is barbaric.
2)Far from fulfilling prophesy, a Jewish man quoting Jewish scripture just before his death is pretty standard practice. What's not so standard is choosing the darkest part of the verse- perhaps the darkest thing you could say to God just before you die.
With Jesus dead, how did God let us know that Jesus died for our sins? Why did he not tell Jesus?
wormyworm1984 4 years ago
1) Jesus willingly paid the cost for our sins. "The greatest love one can show is laying down one's life for a friend." In Jesus' case, He did it for the world. You. Me. He gave His life and was cruficified so we could go to Heaven for simply accepting Him and being Good.
2)Jesus Himself did. He fulfilled the prophesy, and during said so in his own words: "I am the way, the truth and the light; no man cometh unto the father except through me."
Seveninat0r 4 years ago
So God, in all his kindness, created humans as imperfect then threatened eternal damnation when the imperfections come out. Then, he wrote a book that contained all these threats directed at his children. It is now published around the world. If he were a father of flesh and blood who flaunted his abuses like that, we would send his children to foster care without blinking an eye. What does that say about the emotional trauma God has inflicted on his followers?
wormyworm1984 4 years ago
Why does God's happiness weigh so heavily on his creation acknowledging him? What kind of insecure, petty, ultraviolent nutjob deals a fate of eternal damnation to his own children?
Then he says he had to sacrifice his son to rectify our sins (again, imagine an abusive father killing one of his sons, then telling the others that it was because of THEM)... but doesn't God make the rules? Couldn't he set it up without people-killing, scare tactics, or emotional abuse?
wormyworm1984 4 years ago
Realize God gives both great punishment and great reward. His love is as infinite as His wrath. He made humans perfect, they sinned, became imperfect. He gave us an opportunity that still lasts til this day to not deny Him, accept Him, repent, and do Good to be saved and have a place in the kingdom of Heaven. He flaunts no bruises, but judges all. He destroys Evil when it oppresses Good.
Seveninat0r 4 years ago
By that logic, daddy can abuse the children as long as he brings them to Disneyland.
wormyworm1984 4 years ago
Rather, Daddy says, "Do not break this vase." The children take care of it, and he gives them ice cream: they break it, and he spanks them. Think of it on a larger scale. Sin itself is disobedience in origin.
Seveninat0r 4 years ago