@travismays Yes, but it's not a form of religion like most religious people think atheism is. Atheism was only created because religious people had a hard time understanding and placing a person who wasn't religious or believed in a god.
@ThinkForUrself77 I'm am aware of the burden of proof. But if you make the claim that there is no God, then the burden of proof is on you. I do not think many atheists have considered this, because if they had they would be agnostic.
@travismays ahh ok I see how your thinking c: then can I ask you, as a believer, what "evidence" would it take for you to not believe anymore? You would for instance say that, even though evolution proves how mankind was made, thats not enough to debunk God's claim that he made us? or are you a deist?
Also, you don't completely understand the burden of proof. I am not making a claim that a god DOESN'T exist, you are making a claim that he DOES.
No, they have and you haven't. You're contradicting yourself, and you're not even aware of it. Think about what this really means: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
The default position, regarding God(s), is that there is no knowledge. Then, when someone claims knowledge, it's up to THAT person to provide evidence.
If I told you I had super powers, would it be up to you to prove that I didn't, or would it be up to me?
No, I am NOT making a claim that there's no God, I'm saying that the claim that there IS hasn't convinced me! It's a huge difference, and if you can't see it then you're either a fool or dishonest to your own intellect.
And the number of people persuaded by religion does not matter in the SLIGHTEST. Or would you say Einstein's theory of relativity was less true when he'd just made it, since only he was convinced?
What matters is what is demonstrably true. The rest is speculation.
No, you get the definitions mixed up. You think atheism is "the claim that there is no God" or something similar to that, which it is not. It's the rejection of belief in supernatural entities, the direct opposite to theism. Agnosticism means that there is impossible to know either way, which is a grave generalization, avoiding the issue of truth in my opinion.
"Without God".... Ok, so what's the problem? "Without God" does not say "verifiable proof that there is no God". Since you can't prove Gods nonexistence if he doesn't exist (please understand this) there will NEVER be proof that he doesn't exist. Therefore the term "atheism" would be useless if it did indeed imply absolute certainty that there is no God, since that would be impossible. Do you understand?
@MikeoWar YES, I UNDERSTAND. The point I'm trying to make is that Atheism is as much a set of beliefs as religion. It takes a leap of faith in saying there is no afterlife there is no God, without providing a shred of evidence. And instead of saying we just don't know (which is what I believe) it says there is not. The burden of proof is on the Atheist. It is hypocritical to say it's not.
As much of a belief system? Look, for the last time, atheism is a NON-BELIEF, it's a neatrual postition to a supernatural claim. It's (famously) as much a belief as not collecting stamps is a hobby. It does NOT take a leap of faith to be an atheist, since it's an opinion based on experiences within our natural world.
@MikeoWar No, Mike, that is where you are wrong. Atheism IS a belief. It is a belief that there is no afterlife, nothing happens to you when you die. It ever much draw conclusions to grand questions without a shred of evidence. Agnosticism is a neutral stance. I'm not sure how many other ways I can explain this.
Well, then IS not collecting stamps a hobby? Is not believing in Santa Claus a belief? You say atheists draw their conclusion without a shred of evidence, but ironically that is WHY we draw our conclusions. To quote Christopher Hitchens: “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence". If a fantastical claim lacks evidence, it takes absolutely zero belief to dismiss the claim, therefore remaining in a netural position.
Search for "is atheism a belief?" and litterally hundreds of videos debunking the statement will show up. It's simply a matter of misunderstanding on your part.
If you narrow mindedly persist to debate otherwise, then quote your sources for your claims. This is not a matter of personal opinion, mind you. You can't make up your own definitions.
Additionally, agnosticism and atheism aren't mutually exclusive. To be precise, "theism" refers to what you believe, and "agnosticism" to what you know, making it possible to say you're an agnostic atheism, meaning you don't believe in God, and you think it cannot be known wether there is a God or not.
Lastly, it takes as much belief to not believe in Thor as it does to not believe in Jahve.
@MikeoWar And yes, they are mutually exclusive. No I do not believe there are dragons in your garage. Therefore I'm of whatever belief system says there are not. I do not know if there is an afterlife, God, or not, therefore I am agnostic.
@travismays "It takes a leap of faith in saying there is no afterlife there is no God" Bullshit. Those that propose an afterlife have failed to bring any evidence for their claims. To reject their claims, as claims for chemtrails, alien abductions and controlled dets on 9/11 are rejected, is not "faith" but simple common sense.
@TomFynn That is true. But those that believe in Alien Abductions, controlled dets, and chemtrails are a small minority, whereas a large number of people do believe in an afterlife. That is the point I'm trying to make. Thousands of years ago it was common sense that the sun revolved around the earth. Unless you prove there is no afterlife, you can hardly reject it as bullshit.
@travismays "whereas a large number of people do believe in an afterlife." Ah argumentum ad populum. Does not count I'm afraid. And it is still you who have to prove there is an afterlife. See Russell's Teapot on this.
@TomFynn It's not up to me to prove there's afterlife, I've never claimed that there was. It's up to the Athiest, who claims that there's not, to provide evidence of such.
@travismays Then it's up to those that *do* claim there is one. Until they come up with evidence, the statement there is no afterlife is perfectly valid.
Example: Prove that I do not have any invisible dragons in my garage.
@travismays Since the curvature of the universe on the gigaparsec scale is zero, as indicated by the subtended angle of the first acoustic peak in the power-spectrum of the the anisotropies of the CMB as shown by WMAP, there is nothing to indicate that the universe has an edge.
"It's not up to me to prove nor disprove." Missed the point spectacularly there.
@TomFynn I know exactly what I'm talking about. And don't skirt the question. Do YOU as an individual believe there is an edge to the universe. Don't be an intellectual coward.
@travismays If I may be allowed to quote myself: "there is nothing to indicate that the universe has an edge." That *is* the answer to your question. If you must insist on layman's terms: "There is no edge of the universe." Of which I strongly suspect you are ignorant as to what such an edge actually means.
Such an "edge" would also not be supported by the findings of 2dF and SDSS that found a homogeneous and isotropic distribution of matter within the surface of last scattering.
@travismays I told you before: He who makes the claim of the existence of X has the onus of proving. He fails to bring such proof then X does not exist. Invisible dragons, remember?
As a last point, everything, EVERYTHING(!), that doesn't exist, can't be proven to not exist. It's not a 50/50 scnario, just as it isn't a 50/50 chance that Santa, green flying men, magic teapots, etc, exist.
Now, stop embarrassing yourself by your highly deluded position.
@MikeoWar First, we've been to the North Pole, so there's no Santa. 2nd, flying green men, magic teapots, and the flying spaghetti monster etc is not a belief widely held by many people, so I'm not interested in lack of proof on that front. But if you are to make the claim that there is no God, when many people beflieve that there is one, I say prove it.
@travismays Dude seriously, just stop. You are going in circles. Try to understand what burden of proof really means. @MikeoWar made a really good analogi for you about superpowers and you clearly didn't understand any of it.
@ThinkForUrself77 No, I've made the same point over and over again, which is you cannot disprove the existence of God. And that was a terrible analogy. Most people used to think the sun goes around the earth. Disproved. They explained planets as Gods. Disproved. But nowhere has anyone disproved the existence of God. Just sayin.
@travismays I understand how you're thinking but all I can really say is, you don't get it.
Since YOU cannot disprove the existence of; unicorns, fairy's, trolls, Darth Vader and Allah, does that mean that you believe in all of those a little bit too?
If your answer is yes, then the discussion is obviously over.
@ThinkForUrself77 Ah, but do YOU see, that I'm not making those claims. I'm speaking only about the existence of God, of which there is no proof one way or the other.
@travismays hahaha seriously? I give up on trying to help you understand reality.
Lastly, if you say that you didn't make claims of the existence of unicorns etc. I could just say I never made a claim that god existed in the first place :S
@travismays well its the religious that make the claim??? atheists or most atheists think its highly unlikely there is a god so it not up to us to disprove
@TheplagiaristMoPBUH It is up to you to disprove it though, if you are to make the claim. Maybe we are going around in circles, but only because you don't see the irony of your situation. And all atheists believe there is no god, if you believe there might be a God, or that you just don't know, you are agnostic.
Imagine humans in 100 years from now, the idea that a person is from certain nationality will be as awkward -hopefully- as the religious id, to a bright thinker...
This volcano of old living memes is to be dealt seriously if one if interested in the advancement of human civilization.
@TheToosy With how much you have a hard on for the truth you can't seem to understand what it means even when you are slapped with its definition. People are not born sinful, if your kids look like fucked up frankensteins it's because you are bangin your sister not because they made the sociopathic god of Abraham angry. Also you don't decide on the truth beforehand, hence why the aforementioned facts are so god damn important if you can think.
@C0n7ax others just roll over & accept a definition from u & not question anything...sorry joe i didnt attend public school..I attended real school in which we were told to think things thru.
I would believe more atheists if they could read more fantasy novels or watch(and enjoy) fantasy movies...than i'd know their atheism would not simply be lack of imagination or lack of a developed dream life.but i know what they mean about some ''delusional'' belief filled fanatics....belief always opposes fact and versa.
@theforestero I am a atheist and a artist and practice lucid dreaming and lack no imagination what so ever what you have described is your definition of an atheist and by no means what an actual atheist is.
Btw, I respect much more an atheist who is really trying to find the truth than a lukewarm christian that actually does not care about his / her faith. :) And the funny thing is that some atheist talk about God far more often than many christians I know. :)
The funny thing is about atheists is that they seem to be against belief, but they forget that they themselves are preaching about their own beliefs. Atheism is also a religion with its own dogmas.
@IotaEtaSigma No it's not. Not even close, and by saying that you just proved to the world that you know nothing about atheism. Not the first time a religious person makes statements without the knowledge or facts to back it up, though...
@FredrikSoerlie Sam Harris has all the hallmarks of an evangelist. He wants us to believe that lack of belief is the way to go. Thus, he an evangelist of atheism, which is a framework of mind, an idea. If you think about it, what the difference between Sam and an evangelist of the Gospel?
@IotaEtaSigma The content of his words. He does not ask you to have faith in his word. He just ask you to look at the evidence and dare to question your beliefs. His views are based on facts, not ancient fairy tales. To quote Harris: "saying atheism is a religion is like saying NOT smoking is a habit..."
@IotaEtaSigma "Atheism is also a religion with its own dogmas."
You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better to think everybody is as stupid as you. Think about it (and I know you don't because you're an idiot) and you'll see that what you're really saying is, "Yea, well, you people are just as stupid as us!"
@TaGRavage That is a new Atheism isn't slogan. Someone should make a compilation of these just to run the point in. I hear "Atheism is a religion" all the time.
@TaGRavage Your argument is not exactly true, because they are not comparable. What I'm saying is that Sam's trying to convince you and me that his arguments are valid, that we should believe in his ideas. If not, what is the point of his talks? You are also trying to convince me that your ideas are correct, and mine are wrong. Whether you are an atheist or not (I am a Catholic btw), we want the other to believe what we think it's right. I believe in God. You don't. We are not that different. :)
@IotaEtaSigma You're right. We're both insignificant primates living on a rock careening towards eventual oblivion. We're both atheists too, because there are hundreds of gods that you don't believe in. I just go one further.
@TaGRavage Let me ask you one thing. If you believe that we are going into oblivion then how do you deal with hope? Do you really think this is all there is?
@IotaEtaSigma Why do I need hope? I can hope all day that santa clause is real and that he'll really bring me a pony for christmas, that doesn't make it true. No matter how much I hope and how much every kid in america hopes, he still isn't real. When you grow up you learn to accept that santa isn't real and move on with your life. Religion is exactly the same. I plan to live this life to the fullest because I know it's all I have.
@onefodderunit They are both baseless beliefs that parents indoctrinate on their children to guide their children. Santa is just harmless.
And no, I have no blind faith or beliefs about the universe and matter materializing by chance. If science presents a good reason to believe something to be true, then I accept it as truth. Just like evolution. I didn't have a "holy" book to say that I should believe that evolution is true. Science proved it to be so.
Darwinism is a theory from the 19th century which has never been proven for the reason that the theory is invalid. From all of the species of plants, insects and animals, none has ever been proven to have come from another species, or to be changing into a new species.
You have confirmed you have faith in Darwinism.
All Atheists have faith that life is an unintended consequence of chance.
All Atheists have faith that they are soulless. Nothing but matter.
@onefodderunit Evolution is 100% based on natural selection, which is observable all around us. To deny natural selection is to label yourself ignorant, and would end the conversation right here. Look at the common household dog or cat. Do you REALLY think that a chihuahua was spontaneously created and then survived in the wild for six thousand years? No, it was bred to be less hostile by breeders to change a feral dog/wolf into a pet. Replace the breeder with survival and see what happens.
Atheist, natural selection is limited to within species. The faith that man created any breed of dog from wolves is not based on fossil or historical record. What's your point about cats?
Breeders of plants and animals have never created a new species. Genetic Homeostasis prohibits it.
Darwinism was never "proven" and will never be. You were incorrect when you made that claim.
@onefodderunit Im sorry, but when you claim to know what atheists think shows that you dont know what "atheist" means. The only thing you can claim to know about any atheist is what they dont believe, that they arent convinced that there is a god. Which any reasonable person would agree with, faith is unreason by definition and therefor invalid when it comes to building an argument. Arguments uses reason and logic. Faith is a conversation stopper.
@onefodderunit Yeah, keep telling that to yourself, I am sure it makes you feel good. Just know that, by doing this, you keep yourself ignorant of certain facts of nature that you do not want to even try to understand because they conflict with your fairy-tales, superstitions and myths...
Atheist, you used 238 characters and did not attempt to rationalize your faith that life was never meant to be, or your faith in chance materialization of matter.
I'm only superstitious at sea.
Orderly, functional systems in the universe and nature are evidence of intelligence. Your rejection of intelligence for faith that chance created these systems is counter scientific.
It's not Atheism vs Religion. It is Atheism vs Intelligence.
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
@onefodderunit It seems that you spent most of your time at sea. By the looks of it, any attempt to explain to you things about natural selection and cosmology within 500 characters will be pointless. Given that Atheism is the lack of belief in god(s) and you use "Atheism vs. Intelligence" as a sentence, I can infer that maybe the latter is somehow alien to you.
@onefodderunit Do you realize how ignorant you sound when you say things like "Atheist faith"? People of reason do NOT know how life originated, but we are not going to insert a "god" as the answer to such question because we don't know. Therein lies the superstition that I called you up on. Please, point me to the actual work from Planck where he actually says what you claim he says. Regardless, Planck was not trying to find "intelligence" while studying sub-atomic particles.
Max Planck understood that chance didn't materialize matter. A conscious mind does, and according to him "This mind is the matrix of all matter"
You are in clinical denial.
According to your Orthodox rejection of intelligence, and superstition that chance conceived life from matter, and you can't even admit you hold this faith, as well as the faith that chance created matter out of energy.
@onefodderunit I am still waiting for info on the published work where Planck actually says what you say he did. You are also not worth my time, you are too far gone to even understand the implications of the existence of the "intelligence" you speak of. This is the simplistic and deluded theist you are: One such that places atheism as faith, admitting that faith itself is a bad thing, which pretty much buries your own position too.
@onefodderunit I am still waiting for info on the published work where Planck actually says what you say he did. You are also not worth my time, you are too far gone to even understand the implications of the existence of the "intelligence" you speak of. This is the simplistic and deluded theist you are: One such that places atheism as faith, admitting that faith itself is a bad thing, which pretty much buries your own position too.
@onefodderunit I'd like you to tel me what Planck stated this in too. I have a feeling it smells like bull shit because you pulled it directly from your ass, but I could be wrong. So again, please give us the paper that Planck wrote that stated this.
If you were interested in learning, Atheist, you would have already sought out the quote which is at the wikipedia page for Max Planck, along with its source.
You're more comfortable believing chance once materialized matter, and chance once conceived life from matter.
@onefodderunit Oh, I see. So you haven't actually read the papers of Max Planck and are putting words in his mouth. I've just gone over the wiki entry and I'm not surprised to see it's not in there.
Lie, Atheist, you have no soul and are apparently fourteen years old.
The father of Quantum Physics, Max Planck: "All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force . . . We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter"
@onefodderunit I know I don't have a soul because it is a fictional construct of a delusional tradition. My age is irrelevant as it has no bearing on my arguement. What section did you copy paste this from? I've now read the entry three times through and nowhere does it have you garbage quote. You do know the ninth commandment of you silly religion, don't you? Most people don't need to be told this, but then christians are a special lot...
@onefodderunit You are the one who has proven yourself a liar. I have the wiki entry open now, read through it a fourth time and... suprise! It's not there. Would you still persist in your lie? Care to tell me where in the entry you got you quote? It was interesting to read about his views on religion though.
@onefodderunit It took you long enough. I'll go over it and get back to you. In the meantime, play quietly with your imaginary friends, it's embarrassing to think that some adults still play make-believe.
@onefodderunit According to all observed data, matter has only at one point entered existence within this universe, and nothing humans have ever done has been shown to remove matter from the universe. Whether matter materializes multiple times or not, we have reason to believe that matter has only done so once within this universe.
@onefodderunit Not done research, will get back to you soon. Don't mistake rational inquiry for the mental defect of faith -they are worlds apart. Planck had some interesting interpretations of data -it's only too bad he did not want to accept the latter developments of Q.M. like the uncertainty principal....
@onefodderunit believer, your tangled logic bespeaks the damage that religion has done to your brain by destroying your critical faculties. We have no faith: when we don't know something, we say we don't know; we don't rush into the void with holy books that pretend to give answers. And you have sold your soul to men so arrogant that they claim to know the mind of God. My soul is just fine, thanks.
@onefodderunit apply common sense to the bible and you can see that it's just a bunch of old myths and legends. science goes way deeper than common sense; go take some courses.
@gspaulsson a lot of atheists dont do much self evaluation. they must get support from the sam harris, hitchen or dawkins. wiser ones who see the truth have concludes that religion & christianity makes better sense of the world. they have made a complete u-turn & strongly support the myth they once condemned. armed with more weapons then the christians they once challenged. those who we encounter every day are college kids who look at porns & squander their time on their ipod
@gspaulsson most of them are not mature to the real things of the world. When backed against the wall they lash out with ass holes, moron or mother fucker . get in a real dialogue with them & see what happens next.. this is just sad.
@gspaulsson believers dont have tangle logic. religion makes more sense of the world than atheism does. atheism seek facts before forming a belief system. religion particularly christians seek the truth.. some thinking atheists have realized that & have switch gear. The bible is not a book of facts it a book of truth. knowing how things work & learning about evolution does not change character cuz its not the truth.
"religion makes more sense of the world than atheism does. atheism seek facts before forming a belief system. religion particularly christians seek the truth".
"truth
Noun: The quality or state of being true: "the truth of her accusation". That which is true or in accordance with fact or reality: "tell me the truth".
So I propose to you that I am actually doing the right thing by finding FACTS before deciding on a belief structure. Seriously where do they find you kids?
@C0n7ax at least u admit atheism seek facts b/4 forming a belief..yor buddy across the street from u said atheism doesnt seek fact. Truth is what it says it does & it does it. Truth is what it says about anything & it is what it is. The bible speaks of man born in sin & prone in sin. scientists have said their is a chemical imbalance in the brain geared tward wrong etc...bible declared this truth w/o probing into our brains. teach a baby all the right things & he still does wrong.
@C0n7ax the bible speaks of man being formed from the dust of the earth. the book of nano medicine speaks of. the chemical that makes up the human body are all found w/in the earth. finally admitting that the components of a human body is made from dirt. The bible speaks of one has to be attached to a constant source that directs his actions whether good or evil. good source good deeds, bad source bad deeds. choose no source u are still propel to do wrong. thats the truth of all humans.
@TheToosy "the bible speaks of man being formed from the dust of the earth. the book of nano medicine speaks of. the chemical that makes up the human body are all found w/in the earth." Ah, bullshit. No. Earth is mostly made from silicon and iron. We are mostly made of water with a bit of carbon and a few alkaline metals thrown in.
@TomFynn what is more creditable u or the book of nano medicine which contains periodicals from several scientists? foolish people fold up their books & listen to u.
@TomFynn "we are mostly made of water" the general science knowledge taught me that the cmpd h20 is comprised of hydrogen, oxygen & whatever.. all found within the earth. but u said its all bull shit.
@TheToosy Apart from the fact that H2O is no a compound but a molecule. Comprised of hydrogen and oxygen and no whatever....really, you do not have the slightest idea what you are talking about. You are one of these retards who think that Nostradamus predicted WWII. In short, you are an embarrassment to the 21st century.
@TomFynn i have a clue of what im talking about. i learned that elements come together to form a compound..since water comprise of oxygen & hydro it must be... anyway u might be right & the science book i read was wrong.. im not here to debate science. since u introduced nostradamus into the subject u may be a fan of his. dig him out of his grave a& worship him then. maybe it will develop yor insight.
@TomFynn perhaps u havent heard of the book of nanomedicine..u were busy watching the jerry springer show or listening to rush. it clearly states the human body is mad of material & minerals found w/in the earth crust. this is amazing cuz the bible account perfectly match the scientific composition of the human body. it may be stone age tech but today's science agrees with it.
@TomFynn i quote directly from a publication Im a 9000 time retard cuz this view opposes yors, Sam Harris quotes a 1960 atheist hes a brilliant intellect... i see how u rationalize things..an divergent of opinion u dont accept not only that but u try to demoralize yor opponent. the same tactic the late christopher hitchen used. i said this in beginning. "one atheists back are against the wall they resort to insults" one oft he reasons why richard morgan left atheism...
@C0n7ax "so im actually doing the right thing by finding FACTS." u are exactly right but the truth behind those facts has to be established. A person for example may have been taught all the right things, yet end up being a serial killer. the fact is known that he was taught all the right things. what is not known is what propel him to go in the opposite direction?
@C0n7ax had christianity been based on facts then all yor argument is exactly right. but its not. u rightly argued that since there is no historical details of the garden of eden or Jona being swallowed by the fish or anything that the bible claimed happen, i can not accept & believe. yor argument is valid. science do an excellent job explaining the formation of the universe etc..but it lacks the truth. Richard Mrogan a fromer atheist says "the truth can only be found in jesus christ.
@TheToosy "Truth"? The only truth that the Bible has is a subjective truth that has no place in a world that is becoming more diverse as we continue to venture into the technological age. Atheism has no tenants, no dogma, makes no claims... it does not even "seek facts"... Science seeks facts, and if you have a problem with that then you just need to get off your computer, because you betray the technology you use to spread your ignorance...
@TheMrKregel permit me to remind what yor fellow atheists do & say.perhaps u endorse also. all over the country there are bill boards." world w/o religion, push creation outta schools, kick relign out & repl with science." 1 day ago you say atheism doesnt even seek facts. those other guys are saying science is the way to go. how will u venture in the tech are w/o seeking facts? how do u define yor breed of atheism? im crurious. another jim jones or what?
@TheToosy -- Forgive me for not replying sooner. I think you are making a mistake by confusing "Atheism" with "Atheist"... I, as an Atheist, do seek facts... but my outlook on theology does not influence that push.
@TomFynn i bace for the foul language im sure this is just the beginning. i dont get turn off easily. only way u know how to communicate. dont know any better. religion makes better sense of the world so says some leading atheists. even the late anthony flew, a former richard dawkins confidant..& some other guys on a web site formed by former atheists converted to christianity.
@TheToosy "religion makes better sense of the world" Saying God did it is nothing but a way of hiding an "I don't know". Sense got nothing to do with it.
So Anthony Flew in his old age lost his marbles and is now parroting iron age fairy tales? Very sad, very sad.
@onefodderunit no need to insult atheist i love atheist..as a matter of fact some one time atheists have created a site called ILOVEATHEIST.COMI for the sole purpose of challenging the very people they once were.
@onefodderunit I know what you could help me with though... I'm looking for this pink unicorn that hoofed my pet fire-breathing dragon in the balls. If you see that sneaky asshole prancing around the fantasy zone you live in, tell him that I've contracted the Flying Spaghetti monster to hunt it down. We all know how elusive this type of unicorn is, but your faith is strong! I've it fro a reliable source that he like to hang out with jesus...
@IotaEtaSigma no, it isn't. no two atheists agree on anything, except that they don't believe that there is a god. We all find meaning and purpose in our individual and independent ways, not from some holy books or imaginary beings. For myself, I want to leave the world a little better than I found it, to pass on whatever knowledge or wisdom I may have acquired, to increase the sum of knowledge and to leave a legacy. My children will carry on after I've gone, and good luck to them.
How about raising a couple of million dollars and pay youtube to show this clip, without any option to skip or mute, to everyone who opens their website. I seriously believe the world would be a better place if all of youtube's hundreds of millions users would have seen this.
Christianity is a religion aimed at depredation that gives permission to its followers to subdue the planet in any way they like. Christians,as long as they are faithful, can invade other countries,kill other people,devastate and contaminate lands,plunder,dominate and control anything they wish for the sake of Jesuschrist.They have done this for 2000 years non-stop and will continue in the future.To counteract this they build hospitals and fund charities and churches that only continue the same
@12Ominous If you live in a country that has religious freedom you can't stop them from believing. That's their right and freedom to worship a deity. A person believing in god is not really the problem. It's when they go and try to convince others that they must believe as well. The solution is education.
@AstronomyGuru84 A person believing in god(s) isnt a problem, when the majority of a country and its leaders believe in god(s), it becomes a problem for the rest of us that doesent believe in fantasycreations that doesent exist outside the human fantasy. Sadly, most people in most countries are religious.
Sam Harris is not only intelligent, wise, and brave, he's also pretty damn funny.
livingdeadgrl18 2 days ago 2
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travismays 3 days ago
No it's not. But this is: If there is no edge to the universe, how do you verify that??
The Sun, revolving around the earth. Disproved. Remember?
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays The question is: If there *is* a edge to the universe how do you prove that?
Invisible dragons, remember?
TomFynn 3 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TomFynn Exactly, but I've not made the claim either way, you have. And that is the point I am trying to make.
travismays 3 days ago
OMG your obviously retarded just been reading all your comments.No point sayin anything else
TheplagiaristMoPBUH 3 days ago
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ThinkForUrself77 3 days ago
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ThinkForUrself77 3 days ago
A belief in the non-existence of God is still a belief.
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays Yes, but it's not a form of religion like most religious people think atheism is. Atheism was only created because religious people had a hard time understanding and placing a person who wasn't religious or believed in a god.
TheChrisBrand 3 days ago
@travismays No it is not. I do not BELIEVE that there is no God, I LACK the belief that their is one.
ThinkForUrself77 3 days ago
@ThinkForUrself77 That is your prerogative, but there is no evidence to support your claim that there is no God.
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays seriously? I am not CLAIMING that there is no god. I am simply NOT claiming that there is.
Why do you think atheists are referred to as non-believers in almost every monotheistic religion there is?
What religion are u part of?
ThinkForUrself77 3 days ago
@travismays Also, to kinda answer your comment, if you really want to get into "evidence" that there is no god.
You obviously don't know what burden of proof means. Go read about it and it will be a lot easier for you to debate.
ThinkForUrself77 3 days ago
@ThinkForUrself77 I'm am aware of the burden of proof. But if you make the claim that there is no God, then the burden of proof is on you. I do not think many atheists have considered this, because if they had they would be agnostic.
travismays 3 days ago
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@travismays ahh ok I see how your thinking c: then can I ask you, as a believer, what "evidence" would it take for you to not believe anymore? You would for instance say that, even though evolution proves how mankind was made, thats not enough to debunk God's claim that he made us? or are you a deist?
Also, you don't completely understand the burden of proof. I am not making a claim that a god DOESN'T exist, you are making a claim that he DOES.
ThinkForUrself77 3 days ago
@travismays
No, they have and you haven't. You're contradicting yourself, and you're not even aware of it. Think about what this really means: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
The default position, regarding God(s), is that there is no knowledge. Then, when someone claims knowledge, it's up to THAT person to provide evidence.
If I told you I had super powers, would it be up to you to prove that I didn't, or would it be up to me?
MikeoWar 3 days ago
@MikeoWar No, you are contradicting yourself. If you are making the claim that there is no God, well then prove to me that there isn't.
It 's up to you to prove that you had no superpowers.
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays
No, I am NOT making a claim that there's no God, I'm saying that the claim that there IS hasn't convinced me! It's a huge difference, and if you can't see it then you're either a fool or dishonest to your own intellect.
And the number of people persuaded by religion does not matter in the SLIGHTEST. Or would you say Einstein's theory of relativity was less true when he'd just made it, since only he was convinced?
What matters is what is demonstrably true. The rest is speculation.
MikeoWar 3 days ago
@MikeoWar Well that is an agnostic opinion, not an atheistic one, and I am of the same opinion - so thank you for agreeing!
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays
No, you get the definitions mixed up. You think atheism is "the claim that there is no God" or something similar to that, which it is not. It's the rejection of belief in supernatural entities, the direct opposite to theism. Agnosticism means that there is impossible to know either way, which is a grave generalization, avoiding the issue of truth in my opinion.
But I agree that it is fuzzy.
MikeoWar 3 days ago
@MikeoWar Dude, atheism literally means "without god"
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays
"Without God".... Ok, so what's the problem? "Without God" does not say "verifiable proof that there is no God". Since you can't prove Gods nonexistence if he doesn't exist (please understand this) there will NEVER be proof that he doesn't exist. Therefore the term "atheism" would be useless if it did indeed imply absolute certainty that there is no God, since that would be impossible. Do you understand?
MikeoWar 3 days ago
@MikeoWar YES, I UNDERSTAND. The point I'm trying to make is that Atheism is as much a set of beliefs as religion. It takes a leap of faith in saying there is no afterlife there is no God, without providing a shred of evidence. And instead of saying we just don't know (which is what I believe) it says there is not. The burden of proof is on the Atheist. It is hypocritical to say it's not.
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays
As much of a belief system? Look, for the last time, atheism is a NON-BELIEF, it's a neatrual postition to a supernatural claim. It's (famously) as much a belief as not collecting stamps is a hobby. It does NOT take a leap of faith to be an atheist, since it's an opinion based on experiences within our natural world.
Hopefully, some day, you will understand this.
MikeoWar 3 days ago
@MikeoWar No, Mike, that is where you are wrong. Atheism IS a belief. It is a belief that there is no afterlife, nothing happens to you when you die. It ever much draw conclusions to grand questions without a shred of evidence. Agnosticism is a neutral stance. I'm not sure how many other ways I can explain this.
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays
Well, then IS not collecting stamps a hobby? Is not believing in Santa Claus a belief? You say atheists draw their conclusion without a shred of evidence, but ironically that is WHY we draw our conclusions. To quote Christopher Hitchens: “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence". If a fantastical claim lacks evidence, it takes absolutely zero belief to dismiss the claim, therefore remaining in a netural position.
MikeoWar 3 days ago
@MikeoWar Well let me turn the tables. Is there an edge to the Universe?
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays
Search for "is atheism a belief?" and litterally hundreds of videos debunking the statement will show up. It's simply a matter of misunderstanding on your part.
If you narrow mindedly persist to debate otherwise, then quote your sources for your claims. This is not a matter of personal opinion, mind you. You can't make up your own definitions.
MikeoWar 3 days ago
@travismays
Additionally, agnosticism and atheism aren't mutually exclusive. To be precise, "theism" refers to what you believe, and "agnosticism" to what you know, making it possible to say you're an agnostic atheism, meaning you don't believe in God, and you think it cannot be known wether there is a God or not.
Lastly, it takes as much belief to not believe in Thor as it does to not believe in Jahve.
MikeoWar 3 days ago
@MikeoWar If it cannot be known whether there is a God or not, how do you now there is not one?
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays
As I've said before, it's impossible to know wether a God exists or not if he does indeed not exist, therefore I claim no such knowledge.
This is becoming tiresome, even for a youtube debate.
MikeoWar 3 days ago
@MikeoWar I hear ya, I think ultimately we don't agree on our definition of atheism and agnosticism.
travismays 3 days ago
@MikeoWar And yes, they are mutually exclusive. No I do not believe there are dragons in your garage. Therefore I'm of whatever belief system says there are not. I do not know if there is an afterlife, God, or not, therefore I am agnostic.
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays "It takes a leap of faith in saying there is no afterlife there is no God" Bullshit. Those that propose an afterlife have failed to bring any evidence for their claims. To reject their claims, as claims for chemtrails, alien abductions and controlled dets on 9/11 are rejected, is not "faith" but simple common sense.
TomFynn 3 days ago
@TomFynn That is true. But those that believe in Alien Abductions, controlled dets, and chemtrails are a small minority, whereas a large number of people do believe in an afterlife. That is the point I'm trying to make. Thousands of years ago it was common sense that the sun revolved around the earth. Unless you prove there is no afterlife, you can hardly reject it as bullshit.
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays "whereas a large number of people do believe in an afterlife." Ah argumentum ad populum. Does not count I'm afraid. And it is still you who have to prove there is an afterlife. See Russell's Teapot on this.
TomFynn 3 days ago
@TomFynn It's not up to me to prove there's afterlife, I've never claimed that there was. It's up to the Athiest, who claims that there's not, to provide evidence of such.
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays Then it's up to those that *do* claim there is one. Until they come up with evidence, the statement there is no afterlife is perfectly valid.
Example: Prove that I do not have any invisible dragons in my garage.
TomFynn 3 days ago
@TomFynn It's not up to me to prove nor disprove. Do you believe there is an edge to the universe?
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays Since the curvature of the universe on the gigaparsec scale is zero, as indicated by the subtended angle of the first acoustic peak in the power-spectrum of the the anisotropies of the CMB as shown by WMAP, there is nothing to indicate that the universe has an edge.
"It's not up to me to prove nor disprove." Missed the point spectacularly there.
TomFynn 3 days ago
@TomFynn You didn't answer the question AT ALL
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays You have no idea what I was talking about, don't you? Educate yourself: watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo.
TomFynn 3 days ago
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travismays 3 days ago
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@TomFynn I know exactly what I'm talking about. And don't skirt the question. Do YOU as an individual believe there is an edge to the universe. Don't be an intellectual coward.
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays If I may be allowed to quote myself: "there is nothing to indicate that the universe has an edge." That *is* the answer to your question. If you must insist on layman's terms: "There is no edge of the universe." Of which I strongly suspect you are ignorant as to what such an edge actually means.
Such an "edge" would also not be supported by the findings of 2dF and SDSS that found a homogeneous and isotropic distribution of matter within the surface of last scattering.
TomFynn 3 days ago
@TomFynn So if there is no edge to the universe, how do you verify that?
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays I told you before: He who makes the claim of the existence of X has the onus of proving. He fails to bring such proof then X does not exist. Invisible dragons, remember?
TomFynn 3 days ago
@TomFynn That's not an answer.
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays That's not a question.
TomFynn 3 days ago
@travismays
As a last point, everything, EVERYTHING(!), that doesn't exist, can't be proven to not exist. It's not a 50/50 scnario, just as it isn't a 50/50 chance that Santa, green flying men, magic teapots, etc, exist.
Now, stop embarrassing yourself by your highly deluded position.
MikeoWar 3 days ago
@MikeoWar ahh thanks :P I was really sitting here thinking HOW can I make this person understand simple reality(?!)
ThinkForUrself77 3 days ago
@MikeoWar First, we've been to the North Pole, so there's no Santa. 2nd, flying green men, magic teapots, and the flying spaghetti monster etc is not a belief widely held by many people, so I'm not interested in lack of proof on that front. But if you are to make the claim that there is no God, when many people beflieve that there is one, I say prove it.
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays many people are polytheists there's 850 million hindu's that believe in many gods I take it you dont believe in them can u disprove them?
The burden of proof is on you,your the ones sayin there actually is a god.
As with most religious people you can easily dismiss other peoples gods atheists just go one god further!
TheplagiaristMoPBUH 3 days ago
@TheplagiaristMoPBUH I've not made a claim for God either way, the burden of proof is on whoever makes the claim.
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays Dude seriously, just stop. You are going in circles. Try to understand what burden of proof really means. @MikeoWar made a really good analogi for you about superpowers and you clearly didn't understand any of it.
ThinkForUrself77 3 days ago
@ThinkForUrself77 No, I've made the same point over and over again, which is you cannot disprove the existence of God. And that was a terrible analogy. Most people used to think the sun goes around the earth. Disproved. They explained planets as Gods. Disproved. But nowhere has anyone disproved the existence of God. Just sayin.
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays I understand how you're thinking but all I can really say is, you don't get it.
Since YOU cannot disprove the existence of; unicorns, fairy's, trolls, Darth Vader and Allah, does that mean that you believe in all of those a little bit too?
If your answer is yes, then the discussion is obviously over.
ThinkForUrself77 3 days ago
@ThinkForUrself77 Ah, but do YOU see, that I'm not making those claims. I'm speaking only about the existence of God, of which there is no proof one way or the other.
travismays 3 days ago
@ThinkForUrself77 Also, Darth Vader exists. I met him at the Star Wars Special Edition theatrical premieres in '97.
travismays 3 days ago
@travismays hahaha seriously? I give up on trying to help you understand reality.
Lastly, if you say that you didn't make claims of the existence of unicorns etc. I could just say I never made a claim that god existed in the first place :S
ThinkForUrself77 3 days ago
@travismays well its the religious that make the claim??? atheists or most atheists think its highly unlikely there is a god so it not up to us to disprove
TheplagiaristMoPBUH 3 days ago
@TheplagiaristMoPBUH It is up to you to disprove it though, if you are to make the claim. Maybe we are going around in circles, but only because you don't see the irony of your situation. And all atheists believe there is no god, if you believe there might be a God, or that you just don't know, you are agnostic.
travismays 3 days ago
Imagine humans in 100 years from now, the idea that a person is from certain nationality will be as awkward -hopefully- as the religious id, to a bright thinker...
This volcano of old living memes is to be dealt seriously if one if interested in the advancement of human civilization.
jazmx 5 days ago
@TheToosy With how much you have a hard on for the truth you can't seem to understand what it means even when you are slapped with its definition. People are not born sinful, if your kids look like fucked up frankensteins it's because you are bangin your sister not because they made the sociopathic god of Abraham angry. Also you don't decide on the truth beforehand, hence why the aforementioned facts are so god damn important if you can think.
C0n7ax 6 days ago
@C0n7ax others just roll over & accept a definition from u & not question anything...sorry joe i didnt attend public school..I attended real school in which we were told to think things thru.
TheToosy 5 days ago
SAM HARRIS FOR PRESIDENT!!!
TheShikobe 2 weeks ago 2
I would believe more atheists if they could read more fantasy novels or watch(and enjoy) fantasy movies...than i'd know their atheism would not simply be lack of imagination or lack of a developed dream life.but i know what they mean about some ''delusional'' belief filled fanatics....belief always opposes fact and versa.
theforestero 2 weeks ago
@theforestero I am a atheist and a artist and practice lucid dreaming and lack no imagination what so ever what you have described is your definition of an atheist and by no means what an actual atheist is.
804gio 2 weeks ago
Seperate belief from politics(religion) and government from faith.
theforestero 2 weeks ago
Btw, I respect much more an atheist who is really trying to find the truth than a lukewarm christian that actually does not care about his / her faith. :) And the funny thing is that some atheist talk about God far more often than many christians I know. :)
IotaEtaSigma 2 weeks ago
The funny thing is about atheists is that they seem to be against belief, but they forget that they themselves are preaching about their own beliefs. Atheism is also a religion with its own dogmas.
IotaEtaSigma 2 weeks ago
@IotaEtaSigma No it's not. Not even close, and by saying that you just proved to the world that you know nothing about atheism. Not the first time a religious person makes statements without the knowledge or facts to back it up, though...
FredrikSoerlie 2 weeks ago
@FredrikSoerlie Sam Harris has all the hallmarks of an evangelist. He wants us to believe that lack of belief is the way to go. Thus, he an evangelist of atheism, which is a framework of mind, an idea. If you think about it, what the difference between Sam and an evangelist of the Gospel?
IotaEtaSigma 2 weeks ago
@IotaEtaSigma The content of his words. He does not ask you to have faith in his word. He just ask you to look at the evidence and dare to question your beliefs. His views are based on facts, not ancient fairy tales. To quote Harris: "saying atheism is a religion is like saying NOT smoking is a habit..."
FredrikSoerlie 2 weeks ago
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@IotaEtaSigma "Atheism is also a religion with its own dogmas."
You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better to think everybody is as stupid as you. Think about it (and I know you don't because you're an idiot) and you'll see that what you're really saying is, "Yea, well, you people are just as stupid as us!"
AtheistRex 2 weeks ago
@IotaEtaSigma Atheism is the lack of belief. Your arguement is saying that not studying physics is in itself a science.
TaGRavage 2 weeks ago 2
@TaGRavage That is a new Atheism isn't slogan. Someone should make a compilation of these just to run the point in. I hear "Atheism is a religion" all the time.
SSGWhit 2 weeks ago
@TaGRavage Your argument is not exactly true, because they are not comparable. What I'm saying is that Sam's trying to convince you and me that his arguments are valid, that we should believe in his ideas. If not, what is the point of his talks? You are also trying to convince me that your ideas are correct, and mine are wrong. Whether you are an atheist or not (I am a Catholic btw), we want the other to believe what we think it's right. I believe in God. You don't. We are not that different. :)
IotaEtaSigma 2 weeks ago
@IotaEtaSigma You're right. We're both insignificant primates living on a rock careening towards eventual oblivion. We're both atheists too, because there are hundreds of gods that you don't believe in. I just go one further.
TaGRavage 2 weeks ago
@TaGRavage Let me ask you one thing. If you believe that we are going into oblivion then how do you deal with hope? Do you really think this is all there is?
IotaEtaSigma 2 weeks ago
@IotaEtaSigma Why do I need hope? I can hope all day that santa clause is real and that he'll really bring me a pony for christmas, that doesn't make it true. No matter how much I hope and how much every kid in america hopes, he still isn't real. When you grow up you learn to accept that santa isn't real and move on with your life. Religion is exactly the same. I plan to live this life to the fullest because I know it's all I have.
TaGRavage 2 weeks ago
@TaGRavage
What does a children's holiday icon have to do with your Atheist faith that life is a byproduct which was never meant to be?
Do you also have faith that chance materialized matter, and the universe is finite?
onefodderunit 2 weeks ago
@onefodderunit They are both baseless beliefs that parents indoctrinate on their children to guide their children. Santa is just harmless.
And no, I have no blind faith or beliefs about the universe and matter materializing by chance. If science presents a good reason to believe something to be true, then I accept it as truth. Just like evolution. I didn't have a "holy" book to say that I should believe that evolution is true. Science proved it to be so.
TaGRavage 2 weeks ago
@TaGRavage Incorrect.
Darwinism is a theory from the 19th century which has never been proven for the reason that the theory is invalid. From all of the species of plants, insects and animals, none has ever been proven to have come from another species, or to be changing into a new species.
You have confirmed you have faith in Darwinism.
All Atheists have faith that life is an unintended consequence of chance.
All Atheists have faith that they are soulless. Nothing but matter.
onefodderunit 2 weeks ago
@onefodderunit Evolution is 100% based on natural selection, which is observable all around us. To deny natural selection is to label yourself ignorant, and would end the conversation right here. Look at the common household dog or cat. Do you REALLY think that a chihuahua was spontaneously created and then survived in the wild for six thousand years? No, it was bred to be less hostile by breeders to change a feral dog/wolf into a pet. Replace the breeder with survival and see what happens.
TaGRavage 2 weeks ago 2
@TaGRavage
Atheist, natural selection is limited to within species. The faith that man created any breed of dog from wolves is not based on fossil or historical record. What's your point about cats?
Breeders of plants and animals have never created a new species. Genetic Homeostasis prohibits it.
Darwinism was never "proven" and will never be. You were incorrect when you made that claim.
onefodderunit 2 weeks ago
@onefodderunit Im sorry, but when you claim to know what atheists think shows that you dont know what "atheist" means. The only thing you can claim to know about any atheist is what they dont believe, that they arent convinced that there is a god. Which any reasonable person would agree with, faith is unreason by definition and therefor invalid when it comes to building an argument. Arguments uses reason and logic. Faith is a conversation stopper.
ceclovitch 2 weeks ago
@ceclovitch
Do you have faith that matter was materialized by chance, or intent?
Do you have faith that life was created by chance, or intent?
onefodderunit 2 weeks ago
@ceclovitch dead on!
uglyandbad 2 weeks ago
@onefodderunit Yeah, keep telling that to yourself, I am sure it makes you feel good. Just know that, by doing this, you keep yourself ignorant of certain facts of nature that you do not want to even try to understand because they conflict with your fairy-tales, superstitions and myths...
uglyandbad 2 weeks ago
@uglyandbad
Atheist, you used 238 characters and did not attempt to rationalize your faith that life was never meant to be, or your faith in chance materialization of matter.
I'm only superstitious at sea.
Orderly, functional systems in the universe and nature are evidence of intelligence. Your rejection of intelligence for faith that chance created these systems is counter scientific.
It's not Atheism vs Religion. It is Atheism vs Intelligence.
onefodderunit 2 weeks ago
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@onefodderunit
.
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
YukonCornelius1776 2 weeks ago
@onefodderunit It seems that you spent most of your time at sea. By the looks of it, any attempt to explain to you things about natural selection and cosmology within 500 characters will be pointless. Given that Atheism is the lack of belief in god(s) and you use "Atheism vs. Intelligence" as a sentence, I can infer that maybe the latter is somehow alien to you.
uglyandbad 2 weeks ago
@uglyandbad
There's nothing superstitious, or supernatural in recognizing that chance didn't materialize matter, and chance didn't create life from matter.
These are foundations of the Atheist faith.
The father of Quantum Physics, Max Planck, recognized that conscious mind materializes matter.
Two choices:
1. Chance materialized matter from infinite energy, then chance created intelligence from matter.
2. Intelligence (conscious energy - energy is infinite) materializes matter.
onefodderunit 2 weeks ago
@onefodderunit Do you realize how ignorant you sound when you say things like "Atheist faith"? People of reason do NOT know how life originated, but we are not going to insert a "god" as the answer to such question because we don't know. Therein lies the superstition that I called you up on. Please, point me to the actual work from Planck where he actually says what you claim he says. Regardless, Planck was not trying to find "intelligence" while studying sub-atomic particles.
uglyandbad 2 weeks ago
@uglyandbad
Max Planck understood that chance didn't materialize matter. A conscious mind does, and according to him "This mind is the matrix of all matter"
You are in clinical denial.
According to your Orthodox rejection of intelligence, and superstition that chance conceived life from matter, and you can't even admit you hold this faith, as well as the faith that chance created matter out of energy.
What an Atheist.
onefodderunit 1 week ago
@onefodderunit
onefodderunit 1 week ago
@onefodderunit I am still waiting for info on the published work where Planck actually says what you say he did. You are also not worth my time, you are too far gone to even understand the implications of the existence of the "intelligence" you speak of. This is the simplistic and deluded theist you are: One such that places atheism as faith, admitting that faith itself is a bad thing, which pretty much buries your own position too.
"chance created matter and energy" What a bore!
uglyandbad 1 week ago
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@onefodderunit I am still waiting for info on the published work where Planck actually says what you say he did. You are also not worth my time, you are too far gone to even understand the implications of the existence of the "intelligence" you speak of. This is the simplistic and deluded theist you are: One such that places atheism as faith, admitting that faith itself is a bad thing, which pretty much buries your own position too.
"chance created matter and energy" What a bore!
uglyandbad 1 week ago
@uglyandbad
Excuse my bad editing. You're not worth my full attention.
onefodderunit 1 week ago
@onefodderunit I'd like you to tel me what Planck stated this in too. I have a feeling it smells like bull shit because you pulled it directly from your ass, but I could be wrong. So again, please give us the paper that Planck wrote that stated this.
personEks 1 week ago
@personEks
If you were interested in learning, Atheist, you would have already sought out the quote which is at the wikipedia page for Max Planck, along with its source.
You're more comfortable believing chance once materialized matter, and chance once conceived life from matter.
onefodderunit 1 week ago
@onefodderunit Oh, I see. So you haven't actually read the papers of Max Planck and are putting words in his mouth. I've just gone over the wiki entry and I'm not surprised to see it's not in there.
personEks 1 week ago
@personEks wrote: "fail"
Lie, Atheist, you have no soul and are apparently fourteen years old.
The father of Quantum Physics, Max Planck: "All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force . . . We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter"
(copy pasted from wikipedia)
onefodderunit 1 week ago
@onefodderunit I know I don't have a soul because it is a fictional construct of a delusional tradition. My age is irrelevant as it has no bearing on my arguement. What section did you copy paste this from? I've now read the entry three times through and nowhere does it have you garbage quote. You do know the ninth commandment of you silly religion, don't you? Most people don't need to be told this, but then christians are a special lot...
personEks 1 week ago
@personEks
Fourteen year olds write "fail", Atheist.
You have proven yourself a liar. Common among the soulless.
onefodderunit 1 week ago
@onefodderunit You are the one who has proven yourself a liar. I have the wiki entry open now, read through it a fourth time and... suprise! It's not there. Would you still persist in your lie? Care to tell me where in the entry you got you quote? It was interesting to read about his views on religion though.
personEks 1 week ago
@personEks
Max Planck @ wikipedia: "This mind is the matrix of all matter"
Source Reference #20 Das Wesen der Materie [The Nature of Matter],
It's right there with the rest of the quote, Atheist. Either you are very stupid or you're lying about your lies.
onefodderunit 1 week ago
@onefodderunit It took you long enough. I'll go over it and get back to you. In the meantime, play quietly with your imaginary friends, it's embarrassing to think that some adults still play make-believe.
personEks 1 week ago
@personEks
According to your faith, does chance materialize matter only once?
onefodderunit 1 week ago
@onefodderunit According to all observed data, matter has only at one point entered existence within this universe, and nothing humans have ever done has been shown to remove matter from the universe. Whether matter materializes multiple times or not, we have reason to believe that matter has only done so once within this universe.
xfalc0npunchx 1 week ago
@xfalc0npunchx
Do you believe matter was materialized by intent, or by chance?
onefodderunit 1 week ago
@onefodderunit Not done research, will get back to you soon. Don't mistake rational inquiry for the mental defect of faith -they are worlds apart. Planck had some interesting interpretations of data -it's only too bad he did not want to accept the latter developments of Q.M. like the uncertainty principal....
personEks 1 week ago
@personEks
Atheist, are you very stupid or were you lying about your lie?
Your faith that chance once materialized matter favors the former, but your soullessness is indication of the latter.
onefodderunit 1 week ago
@onefodderunit believer, your tangled logic bespeaks the damage that religion has done to your brain by destroying your critical faculties. We have no faith: when we don't know something, we say we don't know; we don't rush into the void with holy books that pretend to give answers. And you have sold your soul to men so arrogant that they claim to know the mind of God. My soul is just fine, thanks.
gspaulsson 1 week ago
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@gspaulsson
What religion? Commonsense is all that's required to know chance did not once materialize matter or create human intelligence out of matter.
onefodderunit 1 week ago
@onefodderunit apply common sense to the bible and you can see that it's just a bunch of old myths and legends. science goes way deeper than common sense; go take some courses.
gspaulsson 1 week ago
@gspaulsson a lot of atheists dont do much self evaluation. they must get support from the sam harris, hitchen or dawkins. wiser ones who see the truth have concludes that religion & christianity makes better sense of the world. they have made a complete u-turn & strongly support the myth they once condemned. armed with more weapons then the christians they once challenged. those who we encounter every day are college kids who look at porns & squander their time on their ipod
TheToosy 1 week ago
@gspaulsson most of them are not mature to the real things of the world. When backed against the wall they lash out with ass holes, moron or mother fucker . get in a real dialogue with them & see what happens next.. this is just sad.
TheToosy 1 week ago
@gspaulsson believers dont have tangle logic. religion makes more sense of the world than atheism does. atheism seek facts before forming a belief system. religion particularly christians seek the truth.. some thinking atheists have realized that & have switch gear. The bible is not a book of facts it a book of truth. knowing how things work & learning about evolution does not change character cuz its not the truth.
TheToosy 1 week ago
@TheToosy
"religion makes more sense of the world than atheism does. atheism seek facts before forming a belief system. religion particularly christians seek the truth".
"truth
Noun: The quality or state of being true: "the truth of her accusation". That which is true or in accordance with fact or reality: "tell me the truth".
So I propose to you that I am actually doing the right thing by finding FACTS before deciding on a belief structure. Seriously where do they find you kids?
C0n7ax 1 week ago
@C0n7ax at least u admit atheism seek facts b/4 forming a belief..yor buddy across the street from u said atheism doesnt seek fact. Truth is what it says it does & it does it. Truth is what it says about anything & it is what it is. The bible speaks of man born in sin & prone in sin. scientists have said their is a chemical imbalance in the brain geared tward wrong etc...bible declared this truth w/o probing into our brains. teach a baby all the right things & he still does wrong.
TheToosy 6 days ago
@C0n7ax the bible speaks of man being formed from the dust of the earth. the book of nano medicine speaks of. the chemical that makes up the human body are all found w/in the earth. finally admitting that the components of a human body is made from dirt. The bible speaks of one has to be attached to a constant source that directs his actions whether good or evil. good source good deeds, bad source bad deeds. choose no source u are still propel to do wrong. thats the truth of all humans.
TheToosy 6 days ago
@TheToosy "the bible speaks of man being formed from the dust of the earth. the book of nano medicine speaks of. the chemical that makes up the human body are all found w/in the earth." Ah, bullshit. No. Earth is mostly made from silicon and iron. We are mostly made of water with a bit of carbon and a few alkaline metals thrown in.
Iron age fairy tales got nothing on facts.
TomFynn 6 days ago
@TomFynn what is more creditable u or the book of nano medicine which contains periodicals from several scientists? foolish people fold up their books & listen to u.
TheToosy 5 days ago
@TheToosy You don't get it, do you?
TomFynn 5 days ago
@TomFynn get what? im not that kinda guy who will just accept anything cuz u said so ...go watch the jerry springer show they accept anything there.
TheToosy 5 days ago
@TomFynn "we are mostly made of water" the general science knowledge taught me that the cmpd h20 is comprised of hydrogen, oxygen & whatever.. all found within the earth. but u said its all bull shit.
TheToosy 5 days ago
@TheToosy Apart from the fact that H2O is no a compound but a molecule. Comprised of hydrogen and oxygen and no whatever....really, you do not have the slightest idea what you are talking about. You are one of these retards who think that Nostradamus predicted WWII. In short, you are an embarrassment to the 21st century.
TomFynn 5 days ago
@TomFynn i have a clue of what im talking about. i learned that elements come together to form a compound..since water comprise of oxygen & hydro it must be... anyway u might be right & the science book i read was wrong.. im not here to debate science. since u introduced nostradamus into the subject u may be a fan of his. dig him out of his grave a& worship him then. maybe it will develop yor insight.
TheToosy 5 days ago
@TheToosy "im not here to debate science" That's obvious.
"since u introduced nostradamus into the subject u may be a fan of his" From which bodily orifice do you pull such crap, I wonder?
"get what?" My point exactly.
TomFynn 5 days ago
@TomFynn perhaps u havent heard of the book of nanomedicine..u were busy watching the jerry springer show or listening to rush. it clearly states the human body is mad of material & minerals found w/in the earth crust. this is amazing cuz the bible account perfectly match the scientific composition of the human body. it may be stone age tech but today's science agrees with it.
TheToosy 5 days ago
@TheToosy "this is amazing cuz the bible account perfectly match the scientific composition of the human body." Your retard level is over 9000.
TomFynn 5 days ago
@TomFynn i quote directly from a publication Im a 9000 time retard cuz this view opposes yors, Sam Harris quotes a 1960 atheist hes a brilliant intellect... i see how u rationalize things..an divergent of opinion u dont accept not only that but u try to demoralize yor opponent. the same tactic the late christopher hitchen used. i said this in beginning. "one atheists back are against the wall they resort to insults" one oft he reasons why richard morgan left atheism...
TheToosy 5 days ago
@TheToosy "the book of nanomedicine" is not a direct quotation, retard.
So Richard Morgan has fallen prey to a delusion. Sad to see great minds go to waste on iron age fairy tales.
TomFynn 5 days ago
@C0n7ax "so im actually doing the right thing by finding FACTS." u are exactly right but the truth behind those facts has to be established. A person for example may have been taught all the right things, yet end up being a serial killer. the fact is known that he was taught all the right things. what is not known is what propel him to go in the opposite direction?
TheToosy 6 days ago
@C0n7ax had christianity been based on facts then all yor argument is exactly right. but its not. u rightly argued that since there is no historical details of the garden of eden or Jona being swallowed by the fish or anything that the bible claimed happen, i can not accept & believe. yor argument is valid. science do an excellent job explaining the formation of the universe etc..but it lacks the truth. Richard Mrogan a fromer atheist says "the truth can only be found in jesus christ.
TheToosy 6 days ago
@TheToosy "Truth"? The only truth that the Bible has is a subjective truth that has no place in a world that is becoming more diverse as we continue to venture into the technological age. Atheism has no tenants, no dogma, makes no claims... it does not even "seek facts"... Science seeks facts, and if you have a problem with that then you just need to get off your computer, because you betray the technology you use to spread your ignorance...
TheMrKregel 1 week ago
@TheMrK
TheToosy 6 days ago
@TheMrKregel permit me to remind what yor fellow atheists do & say.perhaps u endorse also. all over the country there are bill boards." world w/o religion, push creation outta schools, kick relign out & repl with science." 1 day ago you say atheism doesnt even seek facts. those other guys are saying science is the way to go. how will u venture in the tech are w/o seeking facts? how do u define yor breed of atheism? im crurious. another jim jones or what?
TheToosy 6 days ago
@TheToosy how will u venture in the technological age not tech are pt of correction
TheToosy 6 days ago
@TheToosy -- Forgive me for not replying sooner. I think you are making a mistake by confusing "Atheism" with "Atheist"... I, as an Atheist, do seek facts... but my outlook on theology does not influence that push.
TheMrKregel 3 days ago
@TheToosy "religion makes more sense of the world than atheism does" I call bullshit on that.
TomFynn 1 week ago
@TomFynn i bace for the foul language im sure this is just the beginning. i dont get turn off easily. only way u know how to communicate. dont know any better. religion makes better sense of the world so says some leading atheists. even the late anthony flew, a former richard dawkins confidant..& some other guys on a web site formed by former atheists converted to christianity.
TheToosy 6 days ago
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@TheToosy "religion makes better sense of the world" Saying God did it is nothing but a way of hiding an "I don't know". Sense got nothing to do with it.
So Anthony Flew in his old age lost his marbles and is now parroting iron age fairy tales? Very sad, very sad.
TomFynn 6 days ago
@TheToosy brace for foul language not bace sorry for the misspell.
TheToosy 6 days ago
@onefodderunit no need to insult atheist i love atheist..as a matter of fact some one time atheists have created a site called ILOVEATHEIST.COMI for the sole purpose of challenging the very people they once were.
TheToosy 1 week ago
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@TheToosy
Love is nothing but chemicals in the skull according to the faith of Atheism.
onefodderunit 1 week ago
@onefodderunit=epic fail.
personEks 1 week ago
@onefodderunit I know what you could help me with though... I'm looking for this pink unicorn that hoofed my pet fire-breathing dragon in the balls. If you see that sneaky asshole prancing around the fantasy zone you live in, tell him that I've contracted the Flying Spaghetti monster to hunt it down. We all know how elusive this type of unicorn is, but your faith is strong! I've it fro a reliable source that he like to hang out with jesus...
personEks 1 week ago
@onefodderunit=fail.
personEks 1 week ago
@IotaEtaSigma no, it isn't. no two atheists agree on anything, except that they don't believe that there is a god. We all find meaning and purpose in our individual and independent ways, not from some holy books or imaginary beings. For myself, I want to leave the world a little better than I found it, to pass on whatever knowledge or wisdom I may have acquired, to increase the sum of knowledge and to leave a legacy. My children will carry on after I've gone, and good luck to them.
gspaulsson 1 week ago
How about raising a couple of million dollars and pay youtube to show this clip, without any option to skip or mute, to everyone who opens their website. I seriously believe the world would be a better place if all of youtube's hundreds of millions users would have seen this.
MasterDonut 2 weeks ago
Christianity is a religion aimed at depredation that gives permission to its followers to subdue the planet in any way they like. Christians,as long as they are faithful, can invade other countries,kill other people,devastate and contaminate lands,plunder,dominate and control anything they wish for the sake of Jesuschrist.They have done this for 2000 years non-stop and will continue in the future.To counteract this they build hospitals and fund charities and churches that only continue the same
otirudam 3 weeks ago
He's an excellent talker, making a lot of sense. Very interesting, thanks for sharing!
antizac 3 weeks ago
Anyone else think he looks like Adam Sandler? Maybe it's just the haircut.
AstronomyGuru84 4 weeks ago
@AstronomyGuru84 Lol! I read one comment the other day that said "Wow! Ben Stiller really knows his shit!"
InteGrayting2 3 weeks ago in playlist Just Think
@InteGrayting2 All three of them look a little a like.
AstronomyGuru84 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Some people want young white females to mix with non-white males.
I made a one-minute video highlighting a very small sample of race-mixing advertisements.
I love white people, and I am opposed to race-mixing. But I do not hate non-whites.
If you click on my name “awhitesoul2012” highlighted in blue below this comment, you can watch my video.
Thanks.
awhitesoul2012 1 month ago
So what's the solution? If someone wants to believe in God who's going to stop them?
12Ominous 1 month ago
@12Ominous If you live in a country that has religious freedom you can't stop them from believing. That's their right and freedom to worship a deity. A person believing in god is not really the problem. It's when they go and try to convince others that they must believe as well. The solution is education.
AstronomyGuru84 4 weeks ago
@AstronomyGuru84 A person believing in god(s) isnt a problem, when the majority of a country and its leaders believe in god(s), it becomes a problem for the rest of us that doesent believe in fantasycreations that doesent exist outside the human fantasy. Sadly, most people in most countries are religious.