I don't think they were black, why you ask cause they were blue! hahaha, but really who ever saw the nava and made the assumption looked threw colored glasses instead of just seeing us as the same, but lets just say they were meant to be black, or Mexican or what ever, why didn't any one see the interracial dating thing going on, huh? isn't that positive? I don't think we should limit are artist bast on our assumptions, lets not limit free expression ppl....
The thing I hate is how these "White guilt" movies are so popular yet, forcing people out of their homes for the sake of profit is still accepted practice in this country. If you feel so damn guilty about it, then do something other than just watch these stupid movies and patronize companies that regularly engage in this practice.
Comparing the navi to "people of color" strikes me as rather humorous as the original word for black people in my country directly translates as "blue-men". Apparently the closest thing my ancestors could come up with as a comparison was the color of a corpse that had laid too long face down. xD
Oh, and "white guilt" sounds pretty silly. It's mostly christian guilt.
I'm White and I don't have any White Guilt, but I could see lots of it throughout Avatar. The film's basically Manifest Destiny set on another world and, surprise surprise, the main humans are White. The White Guilt in Avatar kind of ruins the film for me; whenever I watch it I try to ignore these guilt messages, but it's not easy!
I see your point, and I appreciate it, but I think that one of the subliminal themes of this movie is that the natives were ultimately saved by a white person, who excelled beyond all of them by living amongst them for a short time. I like the movie, and I understand its positive & thought-provoking themes, but still, the "savages" were led by a white man. This happens in many movies. Furthermore, subtle/subliminal denigration of blacks, arabs, etc. is practically universal in TV & movies, etc
@evilmickey100 - yeah, and The Last Samurai, Last of the Mohicans.......
In that movie (LoA) they also make it seem like Middle Easterners are a violent, ruthless lot, and Lawrence was like the civilized man with a conscience. But a lot of the violence in that region is the legacy of colonialism, not the least of which from Britain and the Western world. Not trying to hate, but these movies present a very distorted view of the world
@aaa333ify Lol I love it when you white say thing like this. Well, let's look at history. Who colonized all but two african countries? Who killed of jews? Who bombed hiroshima? Who massacred native americans? Who enslaved millions of africans? Who divided and conquered every continent?
I could go on and on but it would be pointless now because you feel as if you've done nothing wrong.
@rudeboyazab All those things you mentioned were by A FEW WESTERN european countries: Holland, England, France, Italy, Belgium, (America), and Germany.
Guess what! Irish, swedes, danes, estonians, greeks, fins, norwegians, poles, russians, czechs, scots, austrians, swiss, etc. are just as "white"!! They had NOTHING to do with ANY of the atrocities you just mentioned!
The Turks kept the people of EASTERN europe in slavery + oppression for centuries! This was half of white people!!
@aaa333ify It makes me feel better at night that I know who the cause of all the world problems are:) and don't lie...more than half of the atrocities caused in this world is by whites, but im guessing you refuse to believe that.
@aaa333ify let's be honest here, eastern europeans are no more innocent than westerern euros. It speaks for all white people, I could care less about your nationallity your still white.
You really need to reread history. I am not going to waste my time explaining to you how that is not true, because if you really opened up your heart, you could see it for yourself.
But right now, you are unable to see the truth because you are blinded by hate.
@aaa333ify Are you serious? hate? dude most of my friends are white and are europeans..ok, maybe eastern europeans historically did not have as much impact on the rest of the world as western europe but in know way are they innocent. Most of eastern europe are far more racist than western europeans. They don't interact with blacks and other races so they hold prejudices against them. I've been to eastern/central europe so I know.
I don't hate anyone, I've dated women from all races.
@rudeboyazab No, eastern europeans are just nice people people and not any more prejudiced than us. People all over the world hold prejudices-- doesn't make them racist.
Of course you don't hate individual whites lol.
However, if you believe this myth that most of the world's problems are caused by caucasians, you either hold a prejudice towards the white race in general, OR you need to reread your history.
@aaa333ify So your telling me that eastern europeans like black and other minorities? lol they are worse than western europeasn are you serious? do you know how they treat the roma/gypsy people? jews? and your telling me that they are going to like black people? LOL your naive and stupid.
I know history and if you want to debate on history and who cause millions of deaths than I will be glad to humiliate you on youtube.
@aaa333ify are you fucking joking? most eastern europeans have a negative view of blacks lol and many are far more racist than western europeans. Blacks get killed in russia and it's not even safe for them. Gypsies, and other iranian people are also treated badly...you must not watch the news.
@HonestDiscussioner Thank you so much.While I don't totally agree with you,I totally respect you for at least having a serious dialogue about it.ALL of the other videos I've seen by whites (And blacks) just act like there's no racial undertones at all.As if movies have no meaning.Just "How is a movie about blue aliens racist?..Its just a movie dumbass."Thank you so much for not just being dismissive & patronizing and acting as if you dont even see what "those crazy black people" are talkin about
@youngdrodeau Well I wouldn't call them "crazy black people", and I do see what they are talking about, I just disagree with the assertion for the reasons I listed. I certainly don't think they are pulling the issues out of their ass, I'm sure they really feel it is a problem, and I understand that.
Ya know,I agree with what you said.But what really gets to me is idea of an all-black planet being primitive.Aliens are always highly advanced.Spaceships,etc.1st movie where the aliens are primitive & they're black?All-black planet & they're running around the jungle 1/2 naked?No houses or development?So if there's a black planet out there,they're stuck in the Stone Age?Is this what Earth or black ppl would be w/o the contribution of whites?Is this what Cameron would expect of a black planet?
@youngdrodeau I think they were going for Native American, or at least some sort of tribal thing. The issue at hand is that Cameron's message didn't seem pro-technology, it was more about all people's being one, as during the section when the protagonist becomes a full-fledged Navi. I mean someone could look at it from the opposite perspective "oh, the whites have to be tech-oriented money grubbing whores that can't be spiritual\connected to nature?" I think both characterizations are unfair
@HonestDiscussioner The storyline is akin to that of Natives vs colonists,but they were physically modeled after tribal Africans.The clothes,BRAIDS,accents.The 4 with speaking roles were played by 3 blacks & 1 Native.And yeh,it is racist towards whites too.Really,there was no need for them to be modeled after and played by blacks/Natives & no need for all the Americans to be white (And 1 hispanic).Humans vs blue ppl would've sufficed & still conveyed the desired messages.
James Cameron and a good portion of Hollywood are one of the remaining last bastions of white guilt (college professors being the other and they work as hard as possible everyday to turn American kids into white guilt ridden wussy's). I avoid their flicks all together unless I can get a totally pirated copy that makes them "nada' dime". The Tea Parties have proven that when yo team non-guilt ridden whites with smart goal oriented blacks, American's can again kick ass.
what about hispanic spain conquest of the americas aka the new world. exterminare many the indigenous people take there land. spanish was the first to bring african as slave to the new world. spain was once the most powerful global empire on earth during the 16 century.
No it is not only a movie it is much more than that. look in to your life if you only look
on the surface level of thing. like these movie it is no wonder why you lack understanding to see deeper in to things. that is the problem with this world lack a
Firstly, I come from South Africa and I'm white. I get fed the race card everyday and quite frankly I'm proud of being white. No race is going to make me feel ashamed of that. The race card is pulled only by the weak, not the strong as it has the same affect as shouting in an argument, i.e. it may add to the intensity, but does nothing for the argument... Get over yourselves you liberal w@nkers... Liberalism is as destructive as Authoritarianism, except it's worse because u don't see it coming.
It sounds like you are just on the opposite spectrum of those that cry race all the time, hurt by the effect of such things.
Some other people might actually be affected by racism often, and therefore they see it in everything, but you get the race card often, and therefore also see it often. What you could both be missing is the idea that sometimes people are literally biased against race in unfair ways, and sometimes bad things happen to minorities for non-racist reasons.
@HonestDiscussioner I suggest if you want to know about the concept that is racism, as I have highlighted the fact that you know NOTHING about it. I suggest you listen to what TIM WISE (a jewish man) has to say on the issue - you WILL learn something.
Could you please explain to me how my position of trying to understand ulterior explanations for sets of data while saying that some things are racist and somethings are not, while neither one is always the case . . . is myopic? While yours seems to be degrading into personal attacks that have no basis beyond your baseless assertions and declarations of just how right you are somehow are nuanced?
You have the audacity to lecture me? Child! Racism is still perceived to be a colour issue, and I'm sorry, but it isn't. In every other species, ourselves included, there is weak and strong, hunter or hunted. We are no different. Stop playing victim and step up to plate. I will not make excuses for what the whites have done and besides not everything the whites have done has been with bad intent of malice either. You people sound like a bunch of kids in a playground. "He called me names..." whaa
Listen you British yob! Have you ever been to Africa? Have you ever been in a black owned country? Do yourself a favour, get on a plane and go to Zimbabwe for a year... You piss in your pants and go screaming back to mummy when those IFP supporters get a hold of you... I guarantee your race view will change. It's naive people like you who are liberal to think we are all one happy earth family... And it is you who will eventually learn the hard way... You are clueless...
@HonestDiscussioner All of my assertions on this page have been valid (and you've FAILED to refute any of them), including the fact that I believe you to be a very narrow minded caucasian man in regard to the issue of race - .You've been outsmarted by a man that you thought you were intellectually superior to, I can bet you're still getting over that one ;-). Once again, I suggest you LEARN about racism before making statements you cannot qualify. RECOMMENDED: search TIM WISE on youtube. ;-)
I told you that I have a position that states we should understand ulterior explanations for sets of data while saying that some things are racist and somethings are not, while neither one is always the case. Then I asked you to explain to me how that was myopic, and your reasoning is that it is a fact that I am a narrow minded Caucasian. I asked you a question, you answered with an assertion. Can you back up your claim that I'm myopic by doing more than stating you previously proved it?
@HonestDiscussioner Are you deaf?? I've told you on numerous occassions why you are acutely myopic.You have no concept of racism/white supremacy, yet make assertions pertaining to racism that you cannot qualify.Couple this with your innate delusion on said issue and you'll see that this is clearly why you are a myopic individual. Have you done a search on Tim Wise on youtube yet? or do you insist on being an ignorant caucasian male?
Believe it or not I might not have time to look up everything everyone recommends to me.
Now for the third time, I want you to pretend for a moment as though this is a new conversation, and I want you to tell me how my position that states we should understand ulterior explanations for sets of data while saying that some things are racist and somethings are not is myopic. Can you do this without saying "I've already done so"? Right here, now, make your case concisely backed up with facts.
@HonestDiscussioner Well I'm recommending this to you, type in TIM WISE in the youtube search and it won't take you more than 5 seconds to do so. How much time do you need???!!!! Let me know when you've done the search.
Saying something along the lines of "are you stupid, I've already shown every time how you are myopic, because you are 'insert something that adds up to being myopic"'. Stop restating the definition, declaring it to apply to me, and see if you can all at once explain how my particular view is as you describe. Again, saying "you don't understand race", DOESN'T prove I don't understand it, show your work!
This thing that you call the race card is only brought out when the majority(whites) try and impose their culture on others. UFC is a brutal sport and yet whites accept it because it involves "patriotism". Yet they make it illegal for dog fighting because they know it is very popular in black culture. Look beyond they lines.
cont...They are extremely lazy and they don't like to take risks and a risk could mean working people they are not used and dont TRUST. i.e blacks, hispanics asians etc.. and its not just race how many female directors can you name? The fact is even if a few get in a great script can still be altered to fit THE WHITE HOLLYWOOD agenda so it wouldnt even matter if the writer, producer or director was a non wm.
I gave up on Hollywood giving me anything that was more than just digestible long long ago.
I can't recall the last time i walked away from a blockbuster with strong memory's of the cast as more than actors and the plot as more that a way to be funny/actiony.
Thing is that blockbusters will all ways play it safe so what's the answer.
Support products that don't.
There's a wealth non Hollywood films non safe movies.
I watch foreign films and oldies actually. curent indie and cult movies particularly american ones tend to be pretty generic- I like Almodóvar. Avatar is the first blockbuster movie i've seen in the cinema for a decade!
Is this actively trying to subvert subcultures or merely trying to push a product for money? I'd argue that MANY scripts are revised to fit into a more stereotypical format. Hollywood isn't receptive to a single vision in general, whether it be white, black, Asian, etc. It is not fair that the majority of Hollywood is white.
It may take more time to change, but change is always slow. Women are making inroads in film, a female director is one of the top contenders for best director this year.
I can't tell you that age doe's seem to play a role in bigotry.
Just to state i don't think that being old means that your more bigoted or younger means you can't be (i'm not
ezekielthemack) but as a whole i think the older you are the more likely it is your express lets just say out of touch views.
I remember on time i was on a bus and sitting behind two old white women and one wisped he could be hiding a gun under that hoody or something of the sort.
@zenithsage *yawn* The fact that you are talking about my age tells me you have NOTHING of substance to say. Stick to the ISSUES. You are young and dumb, get off youtube, I've embarrassed you enough. As for your litany of black supremacists, it was almost as pathetic as you.
@zenithsage Is that the best you could come up with? LOL Now tell me, how have these organisations been of detriment to the white community in terms of racism/oppression?I'm giving you a piece of rope so you can hang yourself, you joke. LOL x 10.
@zenithsage Where is the semblance of the prevalence of black supremacy or "racism" that whites are "subjected to" at the hands of black people? I'm waiting.... (whilst laughing my ass off at your insipid argument).
I hate to tell you this, but if you live or have ever lived in Africa like I do... and I'm white... That kind of racism happens all day everyday... It's been going on since whites landed here... And what's more, they inflict their black supremacy upon their own race too... Don't think because you live in the States or a first world country that you understand racism, you don't and that goes for everyone on this page... Live in Africa mate and then we'll see if you laugh your ass off...
@zenithsage "You not do you only have a weak argument,". This tells me that you are either illiterate or just plain DUMB. Try READING all of my ripostes instead of speaking without engaging your brain first and you will see that I have rebutted ALL of Honests assertions, hence the reason why he has nothing left to say to me. Very much like you. Don't test me, I'm ten steps ahead of you - at least!! Too easy.
@zenithsage And I suppose you think you're intelligent, newsflash: you're not. Your "buddy" has failed to show me how "black supremacy" has impacted the existence of white people and I'm still waiting for an answer from him. I won't even dignify the rest of your riposte with a response, as it is not worthy of one, although you do do a good line in meaningless drivel.
@HonestDiscussioner You DO need to show it, as if you can't your argument has no foundation Duh! And how am I an example? I've already won this debate anyway, you and zenith do not have the brain power or intellect to match me. Any discerning person looking at all of the responses on this page will know this. Consider yourself owned on numerous levels.
Okay, let me give you, for the moment, that no black person has EVER oppressed a white person. Now explain how, given that, a black person cannot feel that there is an inherent different between whites and blacks that affects their character.
Then explain to me how "white have an inherent propensity to plagiarize and blacks don't" isn't EXACTLY a belief that there are inherent differences between whites and blacks.
@HonestDiscussioner *yawn* Whites have more of a brutal/exploitative nature than blacks.Hence, you've not heard of any incident where blacks lynched a white boy on account of his skin color.The motivation for white people lynchings was ascribed to nothing other than skin color. Black people have not oppressed white people historically period - end of story.
@HonestDiscussioner I didn't "agree" to anything. What I WILL agree to however, is that I'ved comprehensively kicked your ass in this debate and all you've had to offer is a myriad of inane retorts that are devoid of foundation.Let me spell it out for you, you are not an intellectual and you are NOT as smart as you think you are and I've completely exposed as the narrow minded ignorant caucasian that you are.That is not "racism" (ha, don't me laugh!), that is a FACT.
You do realize that you don't win a debate by declaring yourself victor over and over again, failing to really discuss anything beyond how much you keep winning, right?
You said: "involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others". Thank you for making my point.
You agreed to the definition. You believe there are inherent qualities to blacks and whites that make blacks better. This is racism.
@zenithsage If there is no such thing as race, tell that to your former president (i.e. Katrina), Fox news (surprise, surprise) and Rush Limbaugh, do NOT tell it to me as it's non-applicable.White people created the term "race" to denote a strata of superiority, with them being at the zenith(no pun intended) of said strata, not black people - remember that.Please understand white supremacy before making weak statements you cannot qualify.
But don't you see what zenith and I saying applies directly to your claim of inherent differences between blacks and whites? This is YOUR claim, not mine. We are saying that blacks are just as succeptible of racism as white, given the same situation. Had black ancestors had the power, and whites been in poverty, there would have been a bunch of assholes just like in our timeline who decided to exploit these individuals.
I don't believe white people are special, YOU believe blacks somehow are.
@HonestDiscussioner See my other reply and instead of circumenting the question, be novel and actually answer it.This is the very reason why caucasians like you, are the masters of circumvention - particularly when it's applicable to race. White people have never historically been oppressed by black people - get that through your thick skull and stop being obstinate as all of your assertions are damn WEAK!!
@HonestDiscussioner I've not written racist comments all my comments have been truthful. I suppose you're alluding to my "like most caucasians" comments, in a couple of my ripostes, well prove me wrong then. Fact: Most caucasians DO run from the issue of race. Most caucasians purport not to be racist, then go on to exhibit ALL the traits of one. THAT is not racism my friend, that is truth.You know nothing of the concept of racism. Get schooled you sound puerile.
cont..to lead suggests they were to weak to primitive and stupid to win on their own it even suggests that with the magic of the white man anything is possible. A
group of savage aliens with primitive armory can defeat an army of people with more sophisticated artillery. But on their own theyd be massacred to death just like the natives were- typical white messiah concepts.
You can definitely draw correlations between Avatar and many other movies. This issue I have with the "white savior" criticism is two fold: it doesn't take into account how writing works and it doesn't take into account how movies are made.
Movies are often a conglomerate work. There is the writer, the producer, the director . . the CASTING director, many of these roles. Unless all of these people are working together to make a white propaganda film it must at most accidentally look as such.
cameron wrote directed and produced avatar so its his vison ENTIRELY -he is an auteur. I understand that you want to look at these "projects" objectively but hollywood is a machine that is built around white propaganda it doesnt really matter who is at the helm the overall message will ALWAYS be the same.
Then there is the writing. Without thinking I want you to imagine the main character for a movie you want to create. Maybe I'm wrong, but chances are you thought of someone similar to yourself
Think of it this way: how many movie in Bollywood (in India) star Japanese main characters, or Russian, or African, or American? The movies made there have Indian protagonists for many reasons and none of them "Indian Propagandaists". It's just all the writers are Indian, and writers write what they know
The majority of writers out there are white, and writers often write from their own perspective. If I'm making a movie, I'm going to imagine myself in the main role regardless on what it is about. If it is about race I'm going to imagine myself fixing all of the problems and fighting all the bad guys. Not because I'm white, but because I want to save the day no matter what the circumstance is.
I never had a problem watching characters take lead role but I'm a huge weeaboo so i'v kinda been conditioned for it.
I really don't have a problem with white heroes my fave fictional hero is the Japanese Kei Kurono just cos i see myself in him in a somewhat negative way. Same for the guy in district 9 to a lesser degree but hey i'm a negative about myself and about everyone else.
But really i don't think you have to be the same race as a dude who turns into a blue cat to write him.
Actually it is exactly BECAUSE you are white AND MALE that you feel this way. You will not see other races or females in particular ALWAYS wanting to be the saviour. This is a paricular quirk that white males inhabit and that is because you have been CONDITIONED by the media AND society (to believe that you are and always WILL be the hero) for generations. As I said before I dont blame whites for always portraying themselvs in the best light but don't do it at other people's expence.
I'm fairly certain that non-white authors dream about being hereos.
Are you non-white and male? Did you never imagine yourself as a superhero as a child if that be the case?
And women do write themselves as heroes as well . . . they just more often fix problems with words and emotions. This isn't social conditioning, this is just how men and women naturally are.
Again, it's NOT like in my fantasies me and all my white friends are successful and have to fix all the black problems.
you make out like we live in this equal world all things being equal everyone could and would write themselves in the best light and this would be accepted. There is no way hollywood would accept women or non whites being the hero other than in token circumstances. And if these said people wanted to do their own movies, noone would see them because they dont have the corporate muscle to get these movies into every cinema- like a cameron -get out of your fairy world man!
Please, and I'm not being sarcastic or anything like that here but genuinely trying to ascertain what you mean, describe for me what makes something a "token circumstance".
@HonestDiscussioner Do I have to explain EVERYTHING to you I got in to this debate with you because i thought you were intelligent *sigh* If I must then so be it. "Token" means one or a few examples i.e sigorney weaver in Alien will smith in Independence Day. We do not see black people, asian people or females in hollywood movies consistantly playing the hero or heroine do we?
Chill out man! I knew what token was, but other conversations on this video have led me to consider the possibility that my definition might not match others. If it was really me not understanding it don't you think I would have done a google search rather than admit my ignorance?
I don't think it is fair that the roles are not spread out evenly, but the fact that it isn't fair does not then immediately follow to conscious bias.
If an Asian happened to hire the one Asian out of the hundred or so that applied for the position as office manager, it is possible it was motivated or influenced by race, but going on that evidence alone we can't say that it was. It could have been that the Asian was objectively more qualified than all of the rest of the white people.
Is hollywood biased? Possibly, or it could be that the majority of scripts feature white people. Is this fair? No. Is this racism, also no.
I'm all Asian movies myself and i rarely watch Hollywood so I'm not really sure but I doubt that hollywood has a thing to get at anyone whos not a white male.
I think the real problem comes down to the fact that a lot of writers lack balls, they play it safe cos if a film like Precious or even a cartoon like the boondocks had been written by a white guy i think offensive would be huge.
Aaron McGruder said the only reason he can get away with some of the stuff on boondocks is cos he's black.
Well we can say that about any race. Jews can make fun of other jews and what not. I think there is a bit of an ability for blacks to make fun of other races because they have been subjugated to racism more than anyone else, but I am a consistent advocate for equality so I think we should all be allowed to say whatever we want.
We don't see them consistently, so my question to you is why do we see them at all? It certainly isn't for a lack of scripts. I think if you hand a producer a script for a movie that he thinks is going to make money, he won't turn it down because he knows there were already other movies that year starring black people.
Racism can be a powerful motivating force. I don't think it can hold a candle to greed, especially in Hollywood.
Most protagonists are made to be as plane because of the fear that district personally, looks and traits will damage there appeal to the average Joe. I mean if i was the average joe and everyone was targeting me every protagonist would be Travis Touchdown and he is portrayed as an unlikable, violent, geeky, and porn-stealing prick; and he is frequently flat-out called a loser otaku so i think that thats not really every man appeal.
You are making excuses for racism and i'm bored of it that things will never chnage if people like you continue to justify racism. As you said people of all races submit material to the studios they try and direct and produce movies and they are CONCIOUSLY SHUT OUT. It's not just about greed it's the irrational fear that people of colour if given an inch will take over hollywood like the jews did. It's called tribalism.
So what you are telling me is that a hollywood mogul will get a screenplay, read it, believe that if he puts this forth it will make a lot of money . . and then think to himself "too bad, I've gotta keep the black man down . . those hundreds of thousands of dollars would have been nice though."
I'm not giving excuses for racism, I'm offering a possible explanation. You seem only willing to except one explanation: racism, of which you can't know for sure unless someone came out and admitted it.
Ok your really annoying me now. I never said that this was soley about bp I was talking non wm which includes a plethora of people man! Anyway there is NO other explaination but racism. You can talk to hundreds of people in the film industry and they will tell you that hollywood is and always will remain an old boys club which means YES they will turn down a million dollar script most of the time they dont even know what a million dollar script actually is!
"people of all races submit material to the studios they try and direct and produce movies and they are CONCIOUSLY SHUT OUT. It's not just about greed it's the irrational fear that people of colour if given an inch will take over hollywood like the jews did. It's called tribalism. "
That to me says that they are actively trying to shut races out of the deal.
"they dont even know what a million dollar script actually is! "
Which wouldn't count towards my point. I'm arguing that if they THINK a script is bound to make them money, whether the script came from a black, a white, or an asian does not matter.
And perhaps it is an old boys club, but there is a huge difference between shutting people out because they are not already in, and because they are of another race. One is elitism, the other racism. Neither are FAIR, mind you.
best way to make Hollywood a more varied source for film is to support films that are more varied.
I'm not that trustful of older head of movie groups and the like but i think its less racism and more likely that they generally don't know a million dollar script.
Fact is that a lot of the bigwigs are just not that up on the times and to be honest i doubt they care that much.
Like i said before support films that do something different cos moneys the most direct way to there hearts
I know hollywood wont change and is stuck in the dark ages so ive given up that fight. However, i'm more irritated with people like Honest defending and justifying their blatent bigotry. The problem is too many people cant see it and will continue to be sheep and watch damaging films like this. How can we get more people to shun these type of movies and support real, complex and intelligent films -is it even possible?
I did enjoy the film too but it could have been better without the racial overtones and i dont think it would have need that many adjustments to remove them. I somewhat agree, shallow films dont make things worse I just dont think avatar is as "shallow" as cameron would lead us to believe hence my gripes with it.
I do not think it would be better without the racial overtones. It was raw and that is why I think white people do not like the message its sending. It is all true. If you got the message that the aliens represented colored people like Native Americans then you are absolutely right. White people have been an abomination to this Earth since day 1. All major wars have either been caused or been a result of them. Take it as it is. Its finally starting to hit you in the face.
cont..Why is there such a link between ALIEN and black in white peoples minds? The romance in the movie evokes Pocahontas another white man savior movie and its not so far from the cowboy and Indian movies of old. As you and the article pointed out the real questionable concept was the fact that scully had to lead the group why couldnt they defeat the oppressors on their own? he could have been a MEMBER of the group and the story would have been the same.. cont..
This is a good video however it still is a white savior movie its not so much racist as white propaganda. Hollywood was founded on showing wp in the best possible light I dont have a problem with this per se but dont do it at other peoples expense -and this movie does that in abundance. Perhaps if scully had been played a man of colour no one would be complaining about it but as it is,hes white the navi are played by actors of colour they LOOK black they sound African why? ...
Would black actor, in an avatar body, be racist? A lot of same people that claim Avatar is racist, would just be trotting that out too if the movie is perpetuating the "Magic Negro" trope if the lead was Laz Alonso.
Wes Studi doesn't sound African...the white cast that played lesser Na'vi characters aren't people of color.
The US is a vastly majority white country, one big reason why most stars are white, there are just more whites.
my mistake me if i'm wrong but i don't believe that the magic negro has a very diffident role than that of the main dude in avatar.
Not saying that a black lead would make the movie better or less racist because its not really its more just a bit tactless that they got black actors for all the navi main roles but none for the lead human roles.
Its less the kkk extreme and more the slightly miss judged lefty sort of racism which is to say its not really meant to offend but there are times when you feel a little like there missing the point. Now for all i know i may be wrong and dear old james never meant it to seem like the cats were supported to represent minority.
Ok take say the cats were the bad guys. Now the movies no more racist if they were cos my problems not whos the good guy its who wears loins cloths
But it happen and it did not destroy the movie it did very well.
Ok there cats fine and by less pleasant I just mean that the blue (cats) who are supported to represent the (insert oppressed minority here) are less (insert oppressed minority here) and more magical fairy elf from the scarred forest of mystical seas. Yeah I get that crying racist over something that's not really negative is a little strange to some but if your gonna make a Disney movie make a Disney movie not Disney cum race film
don't worry about being a smart ass it much better than a pretence of grandeur and moral righteousness, EG ezekielthemack.
But I highly doubt race was not a issue in casting and if it wasn't its quite a bit of luck with the nearly all white human cast and nearly all black alien cast. I mean yes race is a great drama bomb but some of the time its hard not to draw conclusion.
Yes they do resemble cat as much as monkeys but there still a bunch of cave men just with the less pleasant parts removed
I think its more racist because of the fact that nearly all the aliens were cast as black actors and yes i know there meant to be the good guys but still it makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable and I don't really feel like I want to be related to a 10 foot blue monkey in a loin cloth. Yeah i get there's no harm intended but its still not smart. Kinda asking for it to be honest.
I'm not one to disagree with everyone is racist but i feel that racism is often overblown and a lot of forms are more or less harmless EG I don't find white girls that appealing,, yeah its shocking i know. Racist yeah but not really damaging anything.
Really don't most forms of modern forms racism stem from over acknowledgement of race to the point that some feel uncomfortably even bringing it up and it or white suburbanites feel scared to to hire a non white looking worker for fear that the next-door will feel like its a form of expositions. . To be frank i wasn't a fan of avatar i found the message clear in the worst way and the story and cast predicable and soulless.
In the end I would have rather seen the ever the humans win the war or something to suggest that the nav'i aren't all there cracked up to be. Sorry i'm a tiny little bit native (like one 8th) American but i think we way over idolise groups who think that shoving a killings of the most attractive virgin will bring help from the gods. I have to say i'm 100 percent with that woman on the whole district 9 thing.
I never had it that bad i mean there was a time when i was young when my houce had a hole in a shed instead of a toilet and iv never been that well off but that hurts far more that the very small amount of racism iv came across, most of which was provoked, by me, for fun.
Being a underprivileged minority ain't fun or magic its kinda shitty and i wish more films were about that instead of trying to sell it as a purer way of life.
Part 1."A positive message that Presses for positive change in race relations"?? LOL. Avatar does a very poor job as a mechanism to somehow "heal" race relations.White people will not leave the theatre after seeing this movie thinking, maybe I should be more considerate to people of an ethinic minority, if they were not of that proclivity in the first place.The author is 100% right and I concur with her.This is yet another catalyst to make white people feel "good" about themselves period.
So you seriously think the writers are sitting there going, "how can we dress up a movie about that SEEMS like it's about how wrong imperialism is in order to actually make something about how awesome white people are?"
When you see the military blowing up their home and all the other humans quite guilty and overall very upset with themselves or when the main character gives up his body to become a Na'vi this is somehow supposed to imply "white people are awesome"?
@HonestDiscussioner You've hit the nail in your first paragraph, albeit you weren't aware that you did.What you have here is a veiled attempt at "guilt", without going all the way.The surest sign of a movie is how impactful the message is to the people that have seen it.I don't think white people will have substantive thoughts about treating "others" better as a consequence of seeing this movie, let's put it that way.
So you ARE saying the writers CONSCIOUSLY dressed up the movie to make whites look awesome while pretending to be nice?
It seems you are just seeing what you want to see in this movie, ignoring all of the other events that I think clearly go against your interpretation.
And this isn't about race relations within america. It isn't about blacks vs. whites, but imperialsts vs. natives. You are supposed to get the impression of walking in the shoes of the oppressed.
@HonestDiscussioner Most definitely.Why do you think that movies like "The Blind Side" and "Precious" are made and subsequently lauded by the mainstream?Again, these are insidious mechanisms created to make whites feel comfortable in themselves (especially during a recession), with the subtext being, no matter how bad things are for you as a white person, don't worry, because the black community is an even worse state, however people who are myopic in their thinking will not understand this.
James Cameron has had Avatar in the works for decades, like Lucas with Ep 1-3 he waited until the technology caught up with his vision.
I really don't see ANYTHING in the movie that makes me think that the black community or and minority is worse off . . given that they win, the white "messiah" has to be saved twice in the end, and the Na'vi culture is portrayed as objectively superior it seems quite the opposite.
@HonestDiscussioner The fact that Avatar has been in the works for decades has no relevance.The fact that it has been RELEASED and has earnt substantial sums of money at the box office is what you should paying attention to.Unfortunately, you are too insular in your thinking to see the "bigger picture" in regard to this issue. Also, well done for conveniently circumventing the very valid citations I made regarding both "Precious" and "The Blind Side".Hardly surprising.
I cannot comment on "Precious" or "The Blind Side" as I have never seen either. I may have heard of "The Blind Side" in passing if it is recent, otherwise I must be confusing it with something else with "Blind" in the title, but either way I don't know anything about it.
Your assertion was that these movies come out to make white people feel better, and specifically during a recession. Given that this movie has been planned for decades this shows you are making a false correlation.
@HonestDiscussioner I suggest you see "Precious" or "The Blind Side" and let me know what you think. Again, the fact that the movie (Avatar) has been planned for decades has no bearing on the issue.The real issue however is TIMING. Remember, this movie has been released DURING a recession - end of story.
The movie took nearly four years to make, starting in 2005. You can't plan on making a movie to be released in a recession, there is no way to possibly plan for that as the markets are way too unpredicatable. You are creating a false correlation
Why so sensitive recession what you lose your job.
I like Precious and while i likely will not see the blind side i'm left somewhat pissed off at the amount of words along the lines of no matter how bad things are for you as a white person, don't worry, because the black community is an even worse state. I'm sure there are white girls out there who get fucked by there dads, I refer to them as white trash and then they tell me i should have a rope around my neck.
@CasterTrash If you had read the riposte you would see the context in which I alluded to the recession.The problem is, narrow minded people like you will never begin to comprehend ANY of the points I have raised, because you are too myopic in your thinking.Again, I suggest you read more and construct assertions that have some "depth" to them, as you are too shallow to debate me period.
Nice insult I'd prefer the more direct way of telling me to fuck off retard but hey your way of speaking.
Also what the context, please points out the context and i hope its something better than this movie is a huge budget, huge selling piece of average that's how i see it.
I love art house films, I like films that don't force messages down your mouth and so don't like avatar but there's a point to were you need to grow up and stop complaining that a movie that's not that good cost a lot.
And you demonstrate this by responding to say your not responding, well fine, when you can post something while not trying to fellate yourself I'll quit assuming that you post while trying to fellate yourself.
So I guess your refusal to debate means i'm right about you just being pissed that a shitty 3D ride made a load of money.
I really love the way you try and talk down and insult while not trying to back your points in anyway other than attacking the commenter. You can do both you know.
@CasterTrash What you've done is demonstrate that you are not a very bright individual. Remember, it is better to be considered a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.Work it out ;-)
and what your doing is refusing to discuss in favour of insults and pretentious insult don't make you smarter than the more direct fuck you mother fucker. Besides if you really were smarter than me and that's a big IF you would have ripped my arguments to shreds. Instead you insult or respond to say your not gonna respond.
when you remove the fancy wording all you will say is fuck you retard over and over. At least I'm a little creative when it comes to talking shit. YO MOM'S DOE'S MY CLEANING.
Given that you've only addressed a mere fraction of my points I don't believe you are justified in criticizing me for missing one, and then passing judgment as to my reasons.
And if you want to talk about the "big picture" have you taken into account the various themes in Avatar of "being one with the people", and "seeing into you" in your interpretation?
It seems to me that your own racism is causing you to see race where you are specifically supposed to see PAST it.
@HonestDiscussioner NO, I've addressed the crux of your argument. As for your "being one with the people" observation, I don't know what your point is.What I DID see however was the visual dichotomy of white people and an "inferior" people who were colored blue.Also, PLEASE do not mis-use the word racism, I'm sure even you know that using that word towards me is acutely redundant and risible.
How exactly is using that word at you redundant? I don't know what your race is, but if you are a minority that does not make it impossible or even improbable that you are racist. As a famous writer (can't remember the name) once said, "we can never eliminate bias, we can only understand it". Everyone is racist in some way, unless they have no knowledge of other races.
@HonestDiscussioner The fact that you even ask that question, makes me know that you do NOT understand the meaning of the word racism, like so many white people. Everyone is NOT racist, and that statement in of itself shows how myopic you are in regard to concept of racism.Anytime you want a comprehensive definition of racism, I'll gladly give it to you with pleasure. Just let me know.
I usually go by the dictionary: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
It seems you are just disagreeing with my definition, but if we're not going by the dictionary then neither of our definitions are better than the other. Explain what you mean and then we can continue
great talk. you truly live up to your name :3
Hawaiianstile 8 months ago
@Hawaiianstile Thank you!
HonestDiscussioner 8 months ago
I don't think they were black, why you ask cause they were blue! hahaha, but really who ever saw the nava and made the assumption looked threw colored glasses instead of just seeing us as the same, but lets just say they were meant to be black, or Mexican or what ever, why didn't any one see the interracial dating thing going on, huh? isn't that positive? I don't think we should limit are artist bast on our assumptions, lets not limit free expression ppl....
JessaMesss 8 months ago
The thing I hate is how these "White guilt" movies are so popular yet, forcing people out of their homes for the sake of profit is still accepted practice in this country. If you feel so damn guilty about it, then do something other than just watch these stupid movies and patronize companies that regularly engage in this practice.
kesayo 9 months ago
BLACKFACE!!!1
moasto02 11 months ago
Comparing the navi to "people of color" strikes me as rather humorous as the original word for black people in my country directly translates as "blue-men". Apparently the closest thing my ancestors could come up with as a comparison was the color of a corpse that had laid too long face down. xD
Oh, and "white guilt" sounds pretty silly. It's mostly christian guilt.
coregoon 11 months ago
I'm White and I don't have any White Guilt, but I could see lots of it throughout Avatar. The film's basically Manifest Destiny set on another world and, surprise surprise, the main humans are White. The White Guilt in Avatar kind of ruins the film for me; whenever I watch it I try to ignore these guilt messages, but it's not easy!
I hate White Guilt: it's racist.
Moggywhitesocks 11 months ago
I see your point, and I appreciate it, but I think that one of the subliminal themes of this movie is that the natives were ultimately saved by a white person, who excelled beyond all of them by living amongst them for a short time. I like the movie, and I understand its positive & thought-provoking themes, but still, the "savages" were led by a white man. This happens in many movies. Furthermore, subtle/subliminal denigration of blacks, arabs, etc. is practically universal in TV & movies, etc
bitterbonker 1 year ago 3
@bitterbonker the same shit they did in lawrence of arabia
evilmickey100 11 months ago
@evilmickey100 - yeah, and The Last Samurai, Last of the Mohicans.......
In that movie (LoA) they also make it seem like Middle Easterners are a violent, ruthless lot, and Lawrence was like the civilized man with a conscience. But a lot of the violence in that region is the legacy of colonialism, not the least of which from Britain and the Western world. Not trying to hate, but these movies present a very distorted view of the world
bitterbonker 11 months ago
Comment removed
bitterbonker 1 year ago
Yea, as if white people are the only ones who have oppressed people.
aaa333ify 1 year ago
@aaa333ify Lol I love it when you white say thing like this. Well, let's look at history. Who colonized all but two african countries? Who killed of jews? Who bombed hiroshima? Who massacred native americans? Who enslaved millions of africans? Who divided and conquered every continent?
I could go on and on but it would be pointless now because you feel as if you've done nothing wrong.
rudeboyazab 1 year ago
@rudeboyazab All those things you mentioned were by A FEW WESTERN european countries: Holland, England, France, Italy, Belgium, (America), and Germany.
Guess what! Irish, swedes, danes, estonians, greeks, fins, norwegians, poles, russians, czechs, scots, austrians, swiss, etc. are just as "white"!! They had NOTHING to do with ANY of the atrocities you just mentioned!
The Turks kept the people of EASTERN europe in slavery + oppression for centuries! This was half of white people!!
aaa333ify 1 year ago
@aaa333ify Besides, what is your point in singing us out? What does it do for you?
aaa333ify 1 year ago
@aaa333ify It makes me feel better at night that I know who the cause of all the world problems are:) and don't lie...more than half of the atrocities caused in this world is by whites, but im guessing you refuse to believe that.
rudeboyazab 1 year ago
@aaa333ify let's be honest here, eastern europeans are no more innocent than westerern euros. It speaks for all white people, I could care less about your nationallity your still white.
rudeboyazab 1 year ago
@rudeboyazab What have eastern europeans done??
You really need to reread history. I am not going to waste my time explaining to you how that is not true, because if you really opened up your heart, you could see it for yourself.
But right now, you are unable to see the truth because you are blinded by hate.
aaa333ify 1 year ago
@aaa333ify Are you serious? hate? dude most of my friends are white and are europeans..ok, maybe eastern europeans historically did not have as much impact on the rest of the world as western europe but in know way are they innocent. Most of eastern europe are far more racist than western europeans. They don't interact with blacks and other races so they hold prejudices against them. I've been to eastern/central europe so I know.
I don't hate anyone, I've dated women from all races.
rudeboyazab 1 year ago
@rudeboyazab No, eastern europeans are just nice people people and not any more prejudiced than us. People all over the world hold prejudices-- doesn't make them racist.
Of course you don't hate individual whites lol.
However, if you believe this myth that most of the world's problems are caused by caucasians, you either hold a prejudice towards the white race in general, OR you need to reread your history.
aaa333ify 1 year ago
@aaa333ify So your telling me that eastern europeans like black and other minorities? lol they are worse than western europeasn are you serious? do you know how they treat the roma/gypsy people? jews? and your telling me that they are going to like black people? LOL your naive and stupid.
I know history and if you want to debate on history and who cause millions of deaths than I will be glad to humiliate you on youtube.
rudeboyazab 1 year ago
@rudeboyazab Well if you can prove to me that MOST eastern europeans are racist then maybe I'll change my opinion.
aaa333ify 1 year ago
@aaa333ify are you fucking joking? most eastern europeans have a negative view of blacks lol and many are far more racist than western europeans. Blacks get killed in russia and it's not even safe for them. Gypsies, and other iranian people are also treated badly...you must not watch the news.
rudeboyazab 1 year ago
@aaa333ify Yeah. it's strange that the folk who say that seem to ignore the mongol or muslim conquests.
kev95 1 year ago
@kev95 exactly
aaa333ify 1 year ago
I don't think it's white guilt. It's more like the white man is your savior.
ProphetGuardian 1 year ago
if u don't think that this movie is about a race fantasy then ur a fucking idiot
nddavi58 1 year ago
I love your analyse of the movie and its concept.
CavenEdwards 1 year ago
@CavenEdwards Thank you.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner Thank you so much.While I don't totally agree with you,I totally respect you for at least having a serious dialogue about it.ALL of the other videos I've seen by whites (And blacks) just act like there's no racial undertones at all.As if movies have no meaning.Just "How is a movie about blue aliens racist?..Its just a movie dumbass."Thank you so much for not just being dismissive & patronizing and acting as if you dont even see what "those crazy black people" are talkin about
youngdrodeau 1 year ago
@youngdrodeau Well I wouldn't call them "crazy black people", and I do see what they are talking about, I just disagree with the assertion for the reasons I listed. I certainly don't think they are pulling the issues out of their ass, I'm sure they really feel it is a problem, and I understand that.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
Ya know,I agree with what you said.But what really gets to me is idea of an all-black planet being primitive.Aliens are always highly advanced.Spaceships,etc.1st movie where the aliens are primitive & they're black?All-black planet & they're running around the jungle 1/2 naked?No houses or development?So if there's a black planet out there,they're stuck in the Stone Age?Is this what Earth or black ppl would be w/o the contribution of whites?Is this what Cameron would expect of a black planet?
youngdrodeau 1 year ago
@youngdrodeau I think they were going for Native American, or at least some sort of tribal thing. The issue at hand is that Cameron's message didn't seem pro-technology, it was more about all people's being one, as during the section when the protagonist becomes a full-fledged Navi. I mean someone could look at it from the opposite perspective "oh, the whites have to be tech-oriented money grubbing whores that can't be spiritual\connected to nature?" I think both characterizations are unfair
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@HonestDiscussioner The storyline is akin to that of Natives vs colonists,but they were physically modeled after tribal Africans.The clothes,BRAIDS,accents.The 4 with speaking roles were played by 3 blacks & 1 Native.And yeh,it is racist towards whites too.Really,there was no need for them to be modeled after and played by blacks/Natives & no need for all the Americans to be white (And 1 hispanic).Humans vs blue ppl would've sufficed & still conveyed the desired messages.
youngdrodeau 1 year ago
Hahahahah its just a movie.are ppl really that far gone? movie,not guilt,not race.movie
stillnailing 1 year ago
the movie was anti white basic commen sence will tell u that blame the whit man
matt60404 1 year ago 2
@matt60404 I thought it made white people look good.
Being that the good guy was white and white people created the movie.
everlastinglife7 1 year ago
James Cameron and a good portion of Hollywood are one of the remaining last bastions of white guilt (college professors being the other and they work as hard as possible everyday to turn American kids into white guilt ridden wussy's). I avoid their flicks all together unless I can get a totally pirated copy that makes them "nada' dime". The Tea Parties have proven that when yo team non-guilt ridden whites with smart goal oriented blacks, American's can again kick ass.
Presentyouth 1 year ago
what about hispanic spain conquest of the americas aka the new world. exterminare many the indigenous people take there land. spanish was the first to bring african as slave to the new world. spain was once the most powerful global empire on earth during the 16 century.
Razcal87 1 year ago
@Razcal87 good point
nddavi58 1 year ago
@Razcal87 good point...i think its because spanish are considered a different kind of "white" like irish or russian or something...
nddavi58 1 year ago
@nddavi58 Spanish Portuguese French Italian Romanian Catalan are Latin European & other.
Latin Europe is a loose term for the region of Europe with an especially strong Roman cultural heritage.
Razcal87 1 year ago
its only a movie.....and fredom of speach
vacationboyvideos 2 years ago
No it is not only a movie it is much more than that. look in to your life if you only look
on the surface level of thing. like these movie it is no wonder why you lack understanding to see deeper in to things. that is the problem with this world lack a
real spritual life black and white inculed
adonie7 2 years ago
Firstly, I come from South Africa and I'm white. I get fed the race card everyday and quite frankly I'm proud of being white. No race is going to make me feel ashamed of that. The race card is pulled only by the weak, not the strong as it has the same affect as shouting in an argument, i.e. it may add to the intensity, but does nothing for the argument... Get over yourselves you liberal w@nkers... Liberalism is as destructive as Authoritarianism, except it's worse because u don't see it coming.
Spoonfeederxxx1 2 years ago
It sounds like you are just on the opposite spectrum of those that cry race all the time, hurt by the effect of such things.
Some other people might actually be affected by racism often, and therefore they see it in everything, but you get the race card often, and therefore also see it often. What you could both be missing is the idea that sometimes people are literally biased against race in unfair ways, and sometimes bad things happen to minorities for non-racist reasons.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner I suggest if you want to know about the concept that is racism, as I have highlighted the fact that you know NOTHING about it. I suggest you listen to what TIM WISE (a jewish man) has to say on the issue - you WILL learn something.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
I almost always learn something. Do you?
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner Yes I learned that you're very myopic and not as intelligent as you think you are. So, er, yes I do always learn something ;-)
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
Could you please explain to me how my position of trying to understand ulterior explanations for sets of data while saying that some things are racist and somethings are not, while neither one is always the case . . . is myopic? While yours seems to be degrading into personal attacks that have no basis beyond your baseless assertions and declarations of just how right you are somehow are nuanced?
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Troll Feeder is Troll Feeder
CasterTrash 2 years ago
You have the audacity to lecture me? Child! Racism is still perceived to be a colour issue, and I'm sorry, but it isn't. In every other species, ourselves included, there is weak and strong, hunter or hunted. We are no different. Stop playing victim and step up to plate. I will not make excuses for what the whites have done and besides not everything the whites have done has been with bad intent of malice either. You people sound like a bunch of kids in a playground. "He called me names..." whaa
Spoonfeederxxx1 2 years ago
Ok first of all when did I say it was a colour issue. ER it kinda is but that's not really relevant to your reply
Next .
How am i playing the victim and no i don't wants a excuse or a i'm sorry or money in case your getting worried i'm just stating a view.
Why would you be proud of your race its not like it makes you important in anyway.
CasterTrash 2 years ago
Listen you British yob! Have you ever been to Africa? Have you ever been in a black owned country? Do yourself a favour, get on a plane and go to Zimbabwe for a year... You piss in your pants and go screaming back to mummy when those IFP supporters get a hold of you... I guarantee your race view will change. It's naive people like you who are liberal to think we are all one happy earth family... And it is you who will eventually learn the hard way... You are clueless...
Spoonfeederxxx1 2 years ago
First of all when the fuck did I give the impression I was a liberal or that we are all some big earth family.
What I'm saying is that we should stop trying to define ourselves by race.
Maybe you should stop acting like your proud of being white and instead find something that took effort.
Like out running IFP supporters if thats your thing.
Not sure were you got that i was a British yob.
But if you want a fight try ezekielthemack (Angry black man) or HonestDiscussioner. (what you think i am)
CasterTrash 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner All of my assertions on this page have been valid (and you've FAILED to refute any of them), including the fact that I believe you to be a very narrow minded caucasian man in regard to the issue of race - .You've been outsmarted by a man that you thought you were intellectually superior to, I can bet you're still getting over that one ;-). Once again, I suggest you LEARN about racism before making statements you cannot qualify. RECOMMENDED: search TIM WISE on youtube. ;-)
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
I told you that I have a position that states we should understand ulterior explanations for sets of data while saying that some things are racist and somethings are not, while neither one is always the case. Then I asked you to explain to me how that was myopic, and your reasoning is that it is a fact that I am a narrow minded Caucasian. I asked you a question, you answered with an assertion. Can you back up your claim that I'm myopic by doing more than stating you previously proved it?
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner Are you deaf?? I've told you on numerous occassions why you are acutely myopic.You have no concept of racism/white supremacy, yet make assertions pertaining to racism that you cannot qualify.Couple this with your innate delusion on said issue and you'll see that this is clearly why you are a myopic individual. Have you done a search on Tim Wise on youtube yet? or do you insist on being an ignorant caucasian male?
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
Believe it or not I might not have time to look up everything everyone recommends to me.
Now for the third time, I want you to pretend for a moment as though this is a new conversation, and I want you to tell me how my position that states we should understand ulterior explanations for sets of data while saying that some things are racist and somethings are not is myopic. Can you do this without saying "I've already done so"? Right here, now, make your case concisely backed up with facts.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner Well I'm recommending this to you, type in TIM WISE in the youtube search and it won't take you more than 5 seconds to do so. How much time do you need???!!!! Let me know when you've done the search.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
Saying something along the lines of "are you stupid, I've already shown every time how you are myopic, because you are 'insert something that adds up to being myopic"'. Stop restating the definition, declaring it to apply to me, and see if you can all at once explain how my particular view is as you describe. Again, saying "you don't understand race", DOESN'T prove I don't understand it, show your work!
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Obvious Troll is Obvious.
CasterTrash 2 years ago
don't be proud of being white and the same with be black, asian, arab. whatever.
I'm kind of sick of it.
If you going to be proud of yourself make it for something you have done not something you had no control over.
Yes Liberalism not some light for the world but from the sound of it your more mad at liberal's there is a different and aside from
ezekielthemack I don't think anyone's really abusing the race card.
CasterTrash 2 years ago
This thing that you call the race card is only brought out when the majority(whites) try and impose their culture on others. UFC is a brutal sport and yet whites accept it because it involves "patriotism". Yet they make it illegal for dog fighting because they know it is very popular in black culture. Look beyond they lines.
Childhoodsince85 2 years ago
cont...They are extremely lazy and they don't like to take risks and a risk could mean working people they are not used and dont TRUST. i.e blacks, hispanics asians etc.. and its not just race how many female directors can you name? The fact is even if a few get in a great script can still be altered to fit THE WHITE HOLLYWOOD agenda so it wouldnt even matter if the writer, producer or director was a non wm.
dlfunky 2 years ago
More reason to go indie and cult.
I gave up on Hollywood giving me anything that was more than just digestible long long ago.
I can't recall the last time i walked away from a blockbuster with strong memory's of the cast as more than actors and the plot as more that a way to be funny/actiony.
Thing is that blockbusters will all ways play it safe so what's the answer.
Support products that don't.
There's a wealth non Hollywood films non safe movies.
See and especially Buy them.
CasterTrash 2 years ago
I watch foreign films and oldies actually. curent indie and cult movies particularly american ones tend to be pretty generic- I like Almodóvar. Avatar is the first blockbuster movie i've seen in the cinema for a decade!
dlfunky 2 years ago
Different things mean well different things to different folk.
I love vistor Q but i'd be mad to try and sell it to my family or friends.
When it comes down to it you got the indie guy making something for a few fans and the big guys making something for the massers.
I don't think its just that a lot of my faves will never get marketed I think its also that a lot were never meant to be for the mainstream
CasterTrash 2 years ago
Is this actively trying to subvert subcultures or merely trying to push a product for money? I'd argue that MANY scripts are revised to fit into a more stereotypical format. Hollywood isn't receptive to a single vision in general, whether it be white, black, Asian, etc. It is not fair that the majority of Hollywood is white.
It may take more time to change, but change is always slow. Women are making inroads in film, a female director is one of the top contenders for best director this year.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
just a correction here the marine's name is Jake Sully not Jack.
Jake38nine 2 years ago
You are right.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
I can't tell you that age doe's seem to play a role in bigotry.
Just to state i don't think that being old means that your more bigoted or younger means you can't be (i'm not
ezekielthemack) but as a whole i think the older you are the more likely it is your express lets just say out of touch views.
I remember on time i was on a bus and sitting behind two old white women and one wisped he could be hiding a gun under that hoody or something of the sort.
I found it really funny but, er,, yeah.
CasterTrash 2 years ago
@zenithsage *yawn* The fact that you are talking about my age tells me you have NOTHING of substance to say. Stick to the ISSUES. You are young and dumb, get off youtube, I've embarrassed you enough. As for your litany of black supremacists, it was almost as pathetic as you.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
@ezekielthemack you're the one who is embarrassed sorry to say that but its obviously true
trexaur123 1 year ago
@zenithsage Is that the best you could come up with? LOL Now tell me, how have these organisations been of detriment to the white community in terms of racism/oppression?I'm giving you a piece of rope so you can hang yourself, you joke. LOL x 10.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
@zenithsage Well done for googling a few fancy words ..... I'm not impressed, answer the question I've posed below and THAT will impress me.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
@zenithsage Where is the semblance of the prevalence of black supremacy or "racism" that whites are "subjected to" at the hands of black people? I'm waiting.... (whilst laughing my ass off at your insipid argument).
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
I hate to tell you this, but if you live or have ever lived in Africa like I do... and I'm white... That kind of racism happens all day everyday... It's been going on since whites landed here... And what's more, they inflict their black supremacy upon their own race too... Don't think because you live in the States or a first world country that you understand racism, you don't and that goes for everyone on this page... Live in Africa mate and then we'll see if you laugh your ass off...
Spoonfeederxxx1 2 years ago
@Spoonfeederxxx1 yea of course theirs racism because of different tribes etc. btw why are you even in africa go back to europe.
dehjavoo 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dehjavoo go back to Africa, A lot of people don't want your sub humans here in the states.
bountyhunter60 1 year ago
@zenithsage "You not do you only have a weak argument,". This tells me that you are either illiterate or just plain DUMB. Try READING all of my ripostes instead of speaking without engaging your brain first and you will see that I have rebutted ALL of Honests assertions, hence the reason why he has nothing left to say to me. Very much like you. Don't test me, I'm ten steps ahead of you - at least!! Too easy.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
@zenithsage And I suppose you think you're intelligent, newsflash: you're not. Your "buddy" has failed to show me how "black supremacy" has impacted the existence of white people and I'm still waiting for an answer from him. I won't even dignify the rest of your riposte with a response, as it is not worthy of one, although you do do a good line in meaningless drivel.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
"Your "buddy" has failed to show me how "black supremacy" has impacted the existence of white people"
I DON'T NEED TO SHOW IMPACT I ONLY NEED TO SHOW EXISTENCE. You are enough of an example to prove my point.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner You DO need to show it, as if you can't your argument has no foundation Duh! And how am I an example? I've already won this debate anyway, you and zenith do not have the brain power or intellect to match me. Any discerning person looking at all of the responses on this page will know this. Consider yourself owned on numerous levels.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
Okay, let me give you, for the moment, that no black person has EVER oppressed a white person. Now explain how, given that, a black person cannot feel that there is an inherent different between whites and blacks that affects their character.
Then explain to me how "white have an inherent propensity to plagiarize and blacks don't" isn't EXACTLY a belief that there are inherent differences between whites and blacks.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner *yawn* Whites have more of a brutal/exploitative nature than blacks.Hence, you've not heard of any incident where blacks lynched a white boy on account of his skin color.The motivation for white people lynchings was ascribed to nothing other than skin color. Black people have not oppressed white people historically period - end of story.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
You already agreed to the definition of racism.
"a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement"
"Whites have more of a brutal/exploitative nature than blacks."
This matches the definition. You are racist.
Whites are also racists. Whites may have performed more racist actions than blacks.
You are still racist.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner I didn't "agree" to anything. What I WILL agree to however, is that I'ved comprehensively kicked your ass in this debate and all you've had to offer is a myriad of inane retorts that are devoid of foundation.Let me spell it out for you, you are not an intellectual and you are NOT as smart as you think you are and I've completely exposed as the narrow minded ignorant caucasian that you are.That is not "racism" (ha, don't me laugh!), that is a FACT.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
Comment removed
CasterTrash 2 years ago
Guy i used IP Tracing to find ezekielthemack's home.
Its was in a deep dark wood and as I got nearer the stink of rotting flesh got worse.
I managed to get in by way of a broken window and what I saw shocked me to my core.
A fat redneck hunched over his computer.
One hand was on his keyboard the other was on his deformed prick.
The wall were covered in in Nazi and KKK posters alongside wast mountings of kiddy porn and pic of deformed African children coved in cum.
I left the way I came.
:(
CasterTrash 2 years ago
You do realize that you don't win a debate by declaring yourself victor over and over again, failing to really discuss anything beyond how much you keep winning, right?
You said: "involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others". Thank you for making my point.
You agreed to the definition. You believe there are inherent qualities to blacks and whites that make blacks better. This is racism.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@zenithsage If there is no such thing as race, tell that to your former president (i.e. Katrina), Fox news (surprise, surprise) and Rush Limbaugh, do NOT tell it to me as it's non-applicable.White people created the term "race" to denote a strata of superiority, with them being at the zenith(no pun intended) of said strata, not black people - remember that.Please understand white supremacy before making weak statements you cannot qualify.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
But don't you see what zenith and I saying applies directly to your claim of inherent differences between blacks and whites? This is YOUR claim, not mine. We are saying that blacks are just as succeptible of racism as white, given the same situation. Had black ancestors had the power, and whites been in poverty, there would have been a bunch of assholes just like in our timeline who decided to exploit these individuals.
I don't believe white people are special, YOU believe blacks somehow are.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner See my other reply and instead of circumenting the question, be novel and actually answer it.This is the very reason why caucasians like you, are the masters of circumvention - particularly when it's applicable to race. White people have never historically been oppressed by black people - get that through your thick skull and stop being obstinate as all of your assertions are damn WEAK!!
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
Oppression does not equal racism. You are confusing terms.
I can prove that racism among blacks exists. I need only look to your comments which are racist comments, by definition.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner I've not written racist comments all my comments have been truthful. I suppose you're alluding to my "like most caucasians" comments, in a couple of my ripostes, well prove me wrong then. Fact: Most caucasians DO run from the issue of race. Most caucasians purport not to be racist, then go on to exhibit ALL the traits of one. THAT is not racism my friend, that is truth.You know nothing of the concept of racism. Get schooled you sound puerile.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
No, it was the "white people have and INHERENT propensity to plagiarize".
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
cont..to lead suggests they were to weak to primitive and stupid to win on their own it even suggests that with the magic of the white man anything is possible. A
group of savage aliens with primitive armory can defeat an army of people with more sophisticated artillery. But on their own theyd be massacred to death just like the natives were- typical white messiah concepts.
dlfunky 2 years ago
You can definitely draw correlations between Avatar and many other movies. This issue I have with the "white savior" criticism is two fold: it doesn't take into account how writing works and it doesn't take into account how movies are made.
Movies are often a conglomerate work. There is the writer, the producer, the director . . the CASTING director, many of these roles. Unless all of these people are working together to make a white propaganda film it must at most accidentally look as such.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
cameron wrote directed and produced avatar so its his vison ENTIRELY -he is an auteur. I understand that you want to look at these "projects" objectively but hollywood is a machine that is built around white propaganda it doesnt really matter who is at the helm the overall message will ALWAYS be the same.
dlfunky1 2 years ago
Cameron wasn't the casting director though. IMDB full cast and crew.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Then there is the writing. Without thinking I want you to imagine the main character for a movie you want to create. Maybe I'm wrong, but chances are you thought of someone similar to yourself
Think of it this way: how many movie in Bollywood (in India) star Japanese main characters, or Russian, or African, or American? The movies made there have Indian protagonists for many reasons and none of them "Indian Propagandaists". It's just all the writers are Indian, and writers write what they know
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
The majority of writers out there are white, and writers often write from their own perspective. If I'm making a movie, I'm going to imagine myself in the main role regardless on what it is about. If it is about race I'm going to imagine myself fixing all of the problems and fighting all the bad guys. Not because I'm white, but because I want to save the day no matter what the circumstance is.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
I never had a problem watching characters take lead role but I'm a huge weeaboo so i'v kinda been conditioned for it.
I really don't have a problem with white heroes my fave fictional hero is the Japanese Kei Kurono just cos i see myself in him in a somewhat negative way. Same for the guy in district 9 to a lesser degree but hey i'm a negative about myself and about everyone else.
But really i don't think you have to be the same race as a dude who turns into a blue cat to write him.
CasterTrash 2 years ago
Actually it is exactly BECAUSE you are white AND MALE that you feel this way. You will not see other races or females in particular ALWAYS wanting to be the saviour. This is a paricular quirk that white males inhabit and that is because you have been CONDITIONED by the media AND society (to believe that you are and always WILL be the hero) for generations. As I said before I dont blame whites for always portraying themselvs in the best light but don't do it at other people's expence.
dlfunky1 2 years ago
I'm fairly certain that non-white authors dream about being hereos.
Are you non-white and male? Did you never imagine yourself as a superhero as a child if that be the case?
And women do write themselves as heroes as well . . . they just more often fix problems with words and emotions. This isn't social conditioning, this is just how men and women naturally are.
Again, it's NOT like in my fantasies me and all my white friends are successful and have to fix all the black problems.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner
you make out like we live in this equal world all things being equal everyone could and would write themselves in the best light and this would be accepted. There is no way hollywood would accept women or non whites being the hero other than in token circumstances. And if these said people wanted to do their own movies, noone would see them because they dont have the corporate muscle to get these movies into every cinema- like a cameron -get out of your fairy world man!
dlfunky1 2 years ago
"you make out like we live in this equal world "
What? Are you crazy? Hell no!
Please, and I'm not being sarcastic or anything like that here but genuinely trying to ascertain what you mean, describe for me what makes something a "token circumstance".
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner Do I have to explain EVERYTHING to you I got in to this debate with you because i thought you were intelligent *sigh* If I must then so be it. "Token" means one or a few examples i.e sigorney weaver in Alien will smith in Independence Day. We do not see black people, asian people or females in hollywood movies consistantly playing the hero or heroine do we?
dlfunky1 2 years ago
Chill out man! I knew what token was, but other conversations on this video have led me to consider the possibility that my definition might not match others. If it was really me not understanding it don't you think I would have done a google search rather than admit my ignorance?
I don't think it is fair that the roles are not spread out evenly, but the fact that it isn't fair does not then immediately follow to conscious bias.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
If an Asian happened to hire the one Asian out of the hundred or so that applied for the position as office manager, it is possible it was motivated or influenced by race, but going on that evidence alone we can't say that it was. It could have been that the Asian was objectively more qualified than all of the rest of the white people.
Is hollywood biased? Possibly, or it could be that the majority of scripts feature white people. Is this fair? No. Is this racism, also no.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
I'm all Asian movies myself and i rarely watch Hollywood so I'm not really sure but I doubt that hollywood has a thing to get at anyone whos not a white male.
I think the real problem comes down to the fact that a lot of writers lack balls, they play it safe cos if a film like Precious or even a cartoon like the boondocks had been written by a white guy i think offensive would be huge.
Aaron McGruder said the only reason he can get away with some of the stuff on boondocks is cos he's black.
CasterTrash 2 years ago
Well we can say that about any race. Jews can make fun of other jews and what not. I think there is a bit of an ability for blacks to make fun of other races because they have been subjugated to racism more than anyone else, but I am a consistent advocate for equality so I think we should all be allowed to say whatever we want.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
We don't see them consistently, so my question to you is why do we see them at all? It certainly isn't for a lack of scripts. I think if you hand a producer a script for a movie that he thinks is going to make money, he won't turn it down because he knows there were already other movies that year starring black people.
Racism can be a powerful motivating force. I don't think it can hold a candle to greed, especially in Hollywood.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Most protagonists are made to be as plane because of the fear that district personally, looks and traits will damage there appeal to the average Joe. I mean if i was the average joe and everyone was targeting me every protagonist would be Travis Touchdown and he is portrayed as an unlikable, violent, geeky, and porn-stealing prick; and he is frequently flat-out called a loser otaku so i think that thats not really every man appeal.
CasterTrash 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner
You are making excuses for racism and i'm bored of it that things will never chnage if people like you continue to justify racism. As you said people of all races submit material to the studios they try and direct and produce movies and they are CONCIOUSLY SHUT OUT. It's not just about greed it's the irrational fear that people of colour if given an inch will take over hollywood like the jews did. It's called tribalism.
dlfunky1 2 years ago
So what you are telling me is that a hollywood mogul will get a screenplay, read it, believe that if he puts this forth it will make a lot of money . . and then think to himself "too bad, I've gotta keep the black man down . . those hundreds of thousands of dollars would have been nice though."
I'm not giving excuses for racism, I'm offering a possible explanation. You seem only willing to except one explanation: racism, of which you can't know for sure unless someone came out and admitted it.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Ok your really annoying me now. I never said that this was soley about bp I was talking non wm which includes a plethora of people man! Anyway there is NO other explaination but racism. You can talk to hundreds of people in the film industry and they will tell you that hollywood is and always will remain an old boys club which means YES they will turn down a million dollar script most of the time they dont even know what a million dollar script actually is!
dlfunky 2 years ago
When what do you expect me to think when you say:
"people of all races submit material to the studios they try and direct and produce movies and they are CONCIOUSLY SHUT OUT. It's not just about greed it's the irrational fear that people of colour if given an inch will take over hollywood like the jews did. It's called tribalism. "
That to me says that they are actively trying to shut races out of the deal.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
"they dont even know what a million dollar script actually is! "
Which wouldn't count towards my point. I'm arguing that if they THINK a script is bound to make them money, whether the script came from a black, a white, or an asian does not matter.
And perhaps it is an old boys club, but there is a huge difference between shutting people out because they are not already in, and because they are of another race. One is elitism, the other racism. Neither are FAIR, mind you.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
best way to make Hollywood a more varied source for film is to support films that are more varied.
I'm not that trustful of older head of movie groups and the like but i think its less racism and more likely that they generally don't know a million dollar script.
Fact is that a lot of the bigwigs are just not that up on the times and to be honest i doubt they care that much.
Like i said before support films that do something different cos moneys the most direct way to there hearts
CasterTrash 2 years ago
I know hollywood wont change and is stuck in the dark ages so ive given up that fight. However, i'm more irritated with people like Honest defending and justifying their blatent bigotry. The problem is too many people cant see it and will continue to be sheep and watch damaging films like this. How can we get more people to shun these type of movies and support real, complex and intelligent films -is it even possible?
dlfunky 2 years ago
Its possible just not likely.
To be honest I don't really care that much.
It depressing that I get like 2 films that impress me a year but it just become something to live with.
Avatar not a bad movie just a shallow one and i enjoyed it somewhat.
The way I see it shallow films don't make thinks worse they just don't make them better.
A tame sci with marketable aliens is a easy sell.
CasterTrash 2 years ago
I did enjoy the film too but it could have been better without the racial overtones and i dont think it would have need that many adjustments to remove them. I somewhat agree, shallow films dont make things worse I just dont think avatar is as "shallow" as cameron would lead us to believe hence my gripes with it.
dlfunky 2 years ago
Yeah the racial tone is really not need and to be honest its kinda of offensive intended to be or not
CasterTrash 2 years ago
I do not think it would be better without the racial overtones. It was raw and that is why I think white people do not like the message its sending. It is all true. If you got the message that the aliens represented colored people like Native Americans then you are absolutely right. White people have been an abomination to this Earth since day 1. All major wars have either been caused or been a result of them. Take it as it is. Its finally starting to hit you in the face.
Childhoodsince85 2 years ago
cont..Why is there such a link between ALIEN and black in white peoples minds? The romance in the movie evokes Pocahontas another white man savior movie and its not so far from the cowboy and Indian movies of old. As you and the article pointed out the real questionable concept was the fact that scully had to lead the group why couldnt they defeat the oppressors on their own? he could have been a MEMBER of the group and the story would have been the same.. cont..
dlfunky 2 years ago
This is a good video however it still is a white savior movie its not so much racist as white propaganda. Hollywood was founded on showing wp in the best possible light I dont have a problem with this per se but dont do it at other peoples expense -and this movie does that in abundance. Perhaps if scully had been played a man of colour no one would be complaining about it but as it is,hes white the navi are played by actors of colour they LOOK black they sound African why? ...
dlfunky 2 years ago
Would black actor, in an avatar body, be racist? A lot of same people that claim Avatar is racist, would just be trotting that out too if the movie is perpetuating the "Magic Negro" trope if the lead was Laz Alonso.
Wes Studi doesn't sound African...the white cast that played lesser Na'vi characters aren't people of color.
The US is a vastly majority white country, one big reason why most stars are white, there are just more whites.
MinervaInTheBrain 2 years ago
my mistake me if i'm wrong but i don't believe that the magic negro has a very diffident role than that of the main dude in avatar.
Not saying that a black lead would make the movie better or less racist because its not really its more just a bit tactless that they got black actors for all the navi main roles but none for the lead human roles.
Its hard not to draw conclusions.
CasterTrash 2 years ago
Its less the kkk extreme and more the slightly miss judged lefty sort of racism which is to say its not really meant to offend but there are times when you feel a little like there missing the point. Now for all i know i may be wrong and dear old james never meant it to seem like the cats were supported to represent minority.
Ok take say the cats were the bad guys. Now the movies no more racist if they were cos my problems not whos the good guy its who wears loins cloths
CasterTrash 2 years ago
But it happen and it did not destroy the movie it did very well.
Ok there cats fine and by less pleasant I just mean that the blue (cats) who are supported to represent the (insert oppressed minority here) are less (insert oppressed minority here) and more magical fairy elf from the scarred forest of mystical seas. Yeah I get that crying racist over something that's not really negative is a little strange to some but if your gonna make a Disney movie make a Disney movie not Disney cum race film
CasterTrash 2 years ago
don't worry about being a smart ass it much better than a pretence of grandeur and moral righteousness, EG ezekielthemack.
But I highly doubt race was not a issue in casting and if it wasn't its quite a bit of luck with the nearly all white human cast and nearly all black alien cast. I mean yes race is a great drama bomb but some of the time its hard not to draw conclusion.
Yes they do resemble cat as much as monkeys but there still a bunch of cave men just with the less pleasant parts removed
CasterTrash 2 years ago
I think its more racist because of the fact that nearly all the aliens were cast as black actors and yes i know there meant to be the good guys but still it makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable and I don't really feel like I want to be related to a 10 foot blue monkey in a loin cloth. Yeah i get there's no harm intended but its still not smart. Kinda asking for it to be honest.
CasterTrash 2 years ago
I'm not one to disagree with everyone is racist but i feel that racism is often overblown and a lot of forms are more or less harmless EG I don't find white girls that appealing,, yeah its shocking i know. Racist yeah but not really damaging anything.
CasterTrash 2 years ago
Really don't most forms of modern forms racism stem from over acknowledgement of race to the point that some feel uncomfortably even bringing it up and it or white suburbanites feel scared to to hire a non white looking worker for fear that the next-door will feel like its a form of expositions. . To be frank i wasn't a fan of avatar i found the message clear in the worst way and the story and cast predicable and soulless.
CasterTrash 2 years ago
In the end I would have rather seen the ever the humans win the war or something to suggest that the nav'i aren't all there cracked up to be. Sorry i'm a tiny little bit native (like one 8th) American but i think we way over idolise groups who think that shoving a killings of the most attractive virgin will bring help from the gods. I have to say i'm 100 percent with that woman on the whole district 9 thing.
CasterTrash 2 years ago
I never had it that bad i mean there was a time when i was young when my houce had a hole in a shed instead of a toilet and iv never been that well off but that hurts far more that the very small amount of racism iv came across, most of which was provoked, by me, for fun.
Being a underprivileged minority ain't fun or magic its kinda shitty and i wish more films were about that instead of trying to sell it as a purer way of life.
AND YES I DO POST WAY TO MUCH TO ONCES
CasterTrash 2 years ago
You should watch District 9. That's exactly what you are talking about.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Part 1."A positive message that Presses for positive change in race relations"?? LOL. Avatar does a very poor job as a mechanism to somehow "heal" race relations.White people will not leave the theatre after seeing this movie thinking, maybe I should be more considerate to people of an ethinic minority, if they were not of that proclivity in the first place.The author is 100% right and I concur with her.This is yet another catalyst to make white people feel "good" about themselves period.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
So you seriously think the writers are sitting there going, "how can we dress up a movie about that SEEMS like it's about how wrong imperialism is in order to actually make something about how awesome white people are?"
When you see the military blowing up their home and all the other humans quite guilty and overall very upset with themselves or when the main character gives up his body to become a Na'vi this is somehow supposed to imply "white people are awesome"?
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner You've hit the nail in your first paragraph, albeit you weren't aware that you did.What you have here is a veiled attempt at "guilt", without going all the way.The surest sign of a movie is how impactful the message is to the people that have seen it.I don't think white people will have substantive thoughts about treating "others" better as a consequence of seeing this movie, let's put it that way.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
So you ARE saying the writers CONSCIOUSLY dressed up the movie to make whites look awesome while pretending to be nice?
It seems you are just seeing what you want to see in this movie, ignoring all of the other events that I think clearly go against your interpretation.
And this isn't about race relations within america. It isn't about blacks vs. whites, but imperialsts vs. natives. You are supposed to get the impression of walking in the shoes of the oppressed.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner Most definitely.Why do you think that movies like "The Blind Side" and "Precious" are made and subsequently lauded by the mainstream?Again, these are insidious mechanisms created to make whites feel comfortable in themselves (especially during a recession), with the subtext being, no matter how bad things are for you as a white person, don't worry, because the black community is an even worse state, however people who are myopic in their thinking will not understand this.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
"(especially during a recession)"
James Cameron has had Avatar in the works for decades, like Lucas with Ep 1-3 he waited until the technology caught up with his vision.
I really don't see ANYTHING in the movie that makes me think that the black community or and minority is worse off . . given that they win, the white "messiah" has to be saved twice in the end, and the Na'vi culture is portrayed as objectively superior it seems quite the opposite.
Sully wasn't their savior. He was their equal
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner The fact that Avatar has been in the works for decades has no relevance.The fact that it has been RELEASED and has earnt substantial sums of money at the box office is what you should paying attention to.Unfortunately, you are too insular in your thinking to see the "bigger picture" in regard to this issue. Also, well done for conveniently circumventing the very valid citations I made regarding both "Precious" and "The Blind Side".Hardly surprising.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
I cannot comment on "Precious" or "The Blind Side" as I have never seen either. I may have heard of "The Blind Side" in passing if it is recent, otherwise I must be confusing it with something else with "Blind" in the title, but either way I don't know anything about it.
Your assertion was that these movies come out to make white people feel better, and specifically during a recession. Given that this movie has been planned for decades this shows you are making a false correlation.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner I suggest you see "Precious" or "The Blind Side" and let me know what you think. Again, the fact that the movie (Avatar) has been planned for decades has no bearing on the issue.The real issue however is TIMING. Remember, this movie has been released DURING a recession - end of story.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
The movie took nearly four years to make, starting in 2005. You can't plan on making a movie to be released in a recession, there is no way to possibly plan for that as the markets are way too unpredicatable. You are creating a false correlation
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Why so sensitive recession what you lose your job.
I like Precious and while i likely will not see the blind side i'm left somewhat pissed off at the amount of words along the lines of no matter how bad things are for you as a white person, don't worry, because the black community is an even worse state. I'm sure there are white girls out there who get fucked by there dads, I refer to them as white trash and then they tell me i should have a rope around my neck.
Good times ,,, well mostly
CasterTrash 2 years ago
@CasterTrash If you had read the riposte you would see the context in which I alluded to the recession.The problem is, narrow minded people like you will never begin to comprehend ANY of the points I have raised, because you are too myopic in your thinking.Again, I suggest you read more and construct assertions that have some "depth" to them, as you are too shallow to debate me period.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
Nice insult I'd prefer the more direct way of telling me to fuck off retard but hey your way of speaking.
Also what the context, please points out the context and i hope its something better than this movie is a huge budget, huge selling piece of average that's how i see it.
I love art house films, I like films that don't force messages down your mouth and so don't like avatar but there's a point to were you need to grow up and stop complaining that a movie that's not that good cost a lot.
CasterTrash 2 years ago
@CasterTrash When you can write something coherent, I'll dignify you with a response.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
And you demonstrate this by responding to say your not responding, well fine, when you can post something while not trying to fellate yourself I'll quit assuming that you post while trying to fellate yourself.
So I guess your refusal to debate means i'm right about you just being pissed that a shitty 3D ride made a load of money.
I really love the way you try and talk down and insult while not trying to back your points in anyway other than attacking the commenter. You can do both you know.
CasterTrash 2 years ago
@CasterTrash What you've done is demonstrate that you are not a very bright individual. Remember, it is better to be considered a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.Work it out ;-)
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
and what your doing is refusing to discuss in favour of insults and pretentious insult don't make you smarter than the more direct fuck you mother fucker. Besides if you really were smarter than me and that's a big IF you would have ripped my arguments to shreds. Instead you insult or respond to say your not gonna respond.
when you remove the fancy wording all you will say is fuck you retard over and over. At least I'm a little creative when it comes to talking shit. YO MOM'S DOE'S MY CLEANING.
CasterTrash 2 years ago
Given that you've only addressed a mere fraction of my points I don't believe you are justified in criticizing me for missing one, and then passing judgment as to my reasons.
And if you want to talk about the "big picture" have you taken into account the various themes in Avatar of "being one with the people", and "seeing into you" in your interpretation?
It seems to me that your own racism is causing you to see race where you are specifically supposed to see PAST it.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner NO, I've addressed the crux of your argument. As for your "being one with the people" observation, I don't know what your point is.What I DID see however was the visual dichotomy of white people and an "inferior" people who were colored blue.Also, PLEASE do not mis-use the word racism, I'm sure even you know that using that word towards me is acutely redundant and risible.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
How exactly is using that word at you redundant? I don't know what your race is, but if you are a minority that does not make it impossible or even improbable that you are racist. As a famous writer (can't remember the name) once said, "we can never eliminate bias, we can only understand it". Everyone is racist in some way, unless they have no knowledge of other races.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner The fact that you even ask that question, makes me know that you do NOT understand the meaning of the word racism, like so many white people. Everyone is NOT racist, and that statement in of itself shows how myopic you are in regard to concept of racism.Anytime you want a comprehensive definition of racism, I'll gladly give it to you with pleasure. Just let me know.
ezekielthemack 2 years ago
What is your comprehensive definition of racism?
I usually go by the dictionary: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
It seems you are just disagreeing with my definition, but if we're not going by the dictionary then neither of our definitions are better than the other. Explain what you mean and then we can continue
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago