I am wondering how many times Jesus Christ had to say to the Pharisees: "You are in error."
In John 3:3, we hear Jesus saying to Nicodemus, who came to Him AT NIGHT asking him some questions: "You are a teacher of Israel, and you don't know these things?"
Jesus Christ always pointed his hearers to the Scriptures and its WORDS, which in Psalm 138:2 we are told is "magnified ABOVE His name."
Yea ,you could be the first actually funny christian stand up comedian,call yourself the funny fundy.Btw, I couldn't agree more.Most arguments against fundamental doctrine are self defeating you don't even have to exegete scripture to expose the fallacy.
Lane, try telling that to all those anti-Mormon activists so they'll once and for all stop militating against the LDS Church. Those activists are for the most part members of the Evangelical Church, while Mormons are Christians themselves
@Bernytheplayboy Mormon's are NOT Christians! They are members of a CULT invented by a troubled young man named Joseph Smith and further propagated by Brigham Young and like Cult Leaders. They DO NOT believe in the same God; and the Jesus of Mormonism is NOT the Jesus of true Christianity! God had no beginning and has no end. He wan not at anytime once a man. Jesus (the true Jesus) always was, but he did come to us as a man through the womb of a women; but, he was still in every way GOD!
@proverbs1824 You're in no position to lecture me, since on the one hand you're saying this out of superstition, and on the other hand you're in conflict with the Bible. You say Jesus was not a created being? Proverbs 8:22: "The LORD created me the first of his works long ago, before all else that he made": that's from The Revised English Bible, a British edition of the Bible, and that was the God of the Old Testament speaking: Jesus.
@Bernytheplayboy A total misinterpretation of scripture. Jesus is the great "I AM". He had no beginning and he has no end! He, the Father, and the Holy Spirit have ALWAYS co-existed as ONE GOD! I AM the Lord thy God, who was, who is, and always will be!
allah is nothing more then a ancient middle eastern moon god and muhammad was doomed to hell for rejecting Jesus as Saviour. Why are you going to make the same eternal mistake he made?
you are about ten years behind with that argument!! LOL which of the 10,000 different kinds of christian are you? do you even know? i pray to the same CREATOR that MUHAMMAD, JESUS & ABRAHAM (pbut) prayed to so i think MUHAMMAD (pbuh) and I will be just fine! and who are you to condemn people to hell fire? exact reason i converted from your hipocritical pagan religion. My prayer for this EID is that we all see heaven!! salaams and rammadan mubarrak to the belivers!!
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.
Sound to me like you should have taken care to study the Word of God before you listen to those who lie in wait with doctrine that were "revealed" by "an angel of light" to decieve even the very elect if it were possible.
as long as you trust religion you will die in your sins. Yeshua said
Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the light, no one comes to the Father but through me" Jesus made no provisions for Muhammad being deified. Muhammad is just another false prophet using Jesus' name to validate his misguided, vengeful doctrine. Islam is just another fake religion with the perfect mix of half truths and full lies, much like Roman Catholicism. All that resulted is them steering MANY away from the one true faith.
blah blah blah... bottom line, i worship the same g-d that jesus worshipped (pbuh), in the same manner.... mabey you should stop watchin youtube n read a book ! LOL
Here's the truth: if we don't love God and want to please people - we won't care about truth. But if we love God, who is Truth - Truth will matter to us. Also, as John Calvin rightly stated - the only true unity is unity in agreement in truth which will produce spiritual unity. Anything else is false unity. We must speak, dialogue, and wait for God's grace to come. By God's grace, He will bring the church to unity in agreement in sound and true doctrine. Truth matters. Or we'd be Hindus.
Good video. The whole point you're responding to is bad on so many levels. Like you said, it in itself is a disagreement. And furthermore, it isn't even always true that disagreement causes disunity. I wouldn't be surprised if there were just as many cases where disagreement forged unity.
Christ God is emphatic that the Church is One. As Orthodox Christians we acknowledge that there is no schism in the Church. Those who are heretics have left the Church. There are no "denominations". You are either in communion with the Church(which also means we all have the same doctrine) and able to partake of the Body and Blood of Christ or you are out of the church. The Church is the Body of Christ..(that is those of us who eat his Body in the Orthodox church)..we are the Body of Christ.
Lose "a chance" at winning someone to Christ? Salvation isn't "chance." Salvation is a gift sovereignly bestowed by Almighty God. We are merely instruments God uses to bring His elect to salvation. I do not worry about offending the wicked. I worry more about pleasing Almighty God. The Gospel is not about "winning" souls. The law convicts sinners of their lost condition. The Gospel reveals God's mercy to His elect for whom Jesus came to die and redeem from their sins.
Public heresy should be confronted publicly. When false preachers preach a false gospel or a false doctrine, then it is open season. "Earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints." (Jude 1:3, KJV).
I had to learn this for myself. Lots of the people on here have shown me that my statements, in and of themselves, are wrong. The heart was right, but the heart doesn't always come out the right way. The Word divides between truth and error, and with the help of Holy Spirit, we are able to acknowledge where we could have missed it. If we are unable to acknowledge that we are wrong when we are clearly wrong, we turn it into a matter of pride, when it wasn't intended for that.
Granted, we shouldn't argue with unbelievers because I have yet to see how that could help them get any closer to Jesus. I have seen Christians argue with Jehovah's witnesses and Jehovah's witnesses love to argue with Christians. They know the Word and will get you to check your Bible. Trust me. It is better to be shaken here in the midst of Christians who are out for your good, than to be shaken out there and lose a chance at winning someone to Jesus.
the reason why evangelical "christians" disagree is because they have abanded the doctrine of the Church (no not the Roman rite) they have a spirit of dissention and the holy spirit is not in them. As the scriptures say in the John 1 " they where with us but not us for they would have stayed with us".
There is also no authority to discern false teachings.
The man in the video is right about one thing it is created doctrine and not of the apostles.
Disagreements aren't wrong. Paul disagreed with Peter in Galatians 2, but when he disagreed and corrected him, he did it to his face. We can disagree, so long as honor and love are at the center of it. Trust me, fidelisdiscipulus, I love unity as much as the next person, so if we can disagree about something and come into unity as a result, that's how the body of Christ maintains its health.
Disagreement and correction is fine, but arguing is not good; especially in front of certain people. Many disagreements should be brought up for the betterment of Gods people. Sometimes Christian cling to doctrine affiliated with denominations when some doctrine in all denominations are not perfect. We all know in part, but when we meet God face to face, we will know fully. (1 Cor 15) Yet God knows us in full.
If you follow Christ then you must "earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints." Do you guys ever actually read the Bible? Paul says we are to stand for sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it. Doctrine divides. Praise God that it does. Jesus came to divide the sheep from the goats. Are you a sheep or a goat?
God has revealed EVERYTHING in His Word. If someone has something "new" that isn't in the Holy Bible, that person is most likely a false prophet. Jesus was and is God and man in one person. Preachers today are mere men and everything they say must be tested by God's Word. Try the spirits to see if they be of God. Search the Scriptures for in them ye think ye have eternal life. Anyone who tries to add to God's Word is a false prophet because there is only one revelation: the Bible.
Of course, we can disagree on "secondary" doctrines like which mode of baptism we believe the Bible teaches or allows. But if you disagree with the trinity, you are NOT a Christian. If you believe that salvation can be earned or merited by being good or doing penance, etc., then you are not a Christian. The Gospel teaches that we are saved by grace alone through the gift of faith alone. The Law convicts us of our sins and drives us to Christ for mercy!
Cranmer, you're absolutely right. This is the point I believe that everyone who calls themselves Christians needs to understand. We need to have a balance of truth and mercy if a united body of Christ is our goal. Yes, the Word divides truth and error, but we also want to be one as He is one, you know? We are one body and many parts. We all have equal love of the Father, which is half of why we come together. I understand that better now, thanks to those who are in their Word, so thanks guys!
Doctrine is what determines IF you are a Christian or a Muslim. Doctrine determines whether you're a Mormon or a Christian. Jesus Christ came "teaching" and "preaching" DOCTRINE. HELLO????
Hehehehe good joke... For the Love of God, it is obvious that we CAN'T be agree in the all things... But, among Christians, and I mean true christians, I think that the doctrine issue is not a barrier, because, even if it sound too used what join us (The TRUE LOVE OF GOD AND THE WORK OF JESUS CHRIST) is greater than the little things like doctrine... I mean, I have brothers of other "denominations" but we love eachother so much, that we said that those "labels" won't interrupt our friendship...
The world says Jesus was about unity when in fact the scripture shows that He was actually about division, seperating ourselves from sin and that becoming a child of God means set apart from this world and the children of the Devil. There is no scriptural support that we should tolerate unbiblical doctorine but that we should expose and refute it. Doctorine divides, as it should, the truth from error.
You're absolutely correct! Jesus came not to bring peace, but a sword. And Hebrews 4:12 talks about how the Word discerns. David stresses loving God's law in Psalms 119. I'm not discounting that. I'm sure this is elementary to you, but what I am saying is that disagreements are okay, so long as they are done with honor. Not tearing down, but building up one another in love.
I forgot something. In religion, if you come together for the sake of doctrine. In relationship,you come together because you have the same Father. So, maybe some things are taken out of context, but you eat the meat and spit out the bones. There are some things that my Pastor teaches that don't really sit well all the time, but I still love him regardless-- he's my spiritual father. Paul talked a lot about teachers and fathers in the NT. Check it out! It's really enlightening.
You do realize that you sound NOTHING like the bible when you say "if you come together for the sake of doctrine..." and "eat the meat and spit out the bones..."
The New Testament would disagree with you big-time.
I understand where you're coming from. What I am emphasizing is that if people are all about doctrine and tradition and the old, how will you be able to follow the new things that God is doing? For example, Jesus was at a well with a woman by themselves, breaking so many rules that we have to keep ourselves accountable. Granted, live by the rule, not by the exception, but what I was saying earlier was about teachers and fathers. Both are necessary. Teachers represent truth, and fathers mercy.
Okay! He's absolutely right! We can totally disagree on doctrine, because a RELATIONSHIP with Jesus Christ isn't about doctrine. Religion tells you what to think instead of how to think. I admit that I am one of the ones who was on youtube telling people that we shouldn't be doing what we are doing. What I was directly coming against was the "You're of Satan, you can't be of God." I wasn't coming against disagreements-- I was coming against judgment and unpeaceful disagreements.
Relationship with Jesus Christ isn't about doctrine? what verse is that? Romans 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. 1 Timothy 1:3
[ Warning Against False Teachers ] As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine,
the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
1 Timothy 4:6
[ A Good Servant of Christ Jesus ] If you put these things before the brothers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, being trained in the words of the faith and of the good doctrine that you have followed.
If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness,
Titus 1:9
He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
Okay, but that's only part of what I was saying. Teaching is absolutely important-- don't get me wrong. But one thing I do want to throw out there (you judge what I say by the Word-- if I'm wrong, so be it) is that Paul emphasized on spiritual fathers. Paul wrote half of the NT and he told (I forget which letter it was) them that they have many teachers but not many fathers. That is what I am emphasizing on. Teaching is a ministry of the Holy Spirit-- I do not discount that by any means.
Actually a "relationship" with Christ is all about doctorine, Satan has a relationship with Christ built of false doctorine, and his relationship is not a very good one. You must know the truth of who Christ is(right doctorine) before you can be saved. Beyond that you must repent and put your trust in Christ who is presented in scripture(more doctorine)
By the way everyone who is unsaved is of the Devil, and not of God, that's what Jesus said, so I don't think it's wrong to focus on that
This world is so dark and sick. If only I could have lived in the 13th century. Knowing what I know now, I could have started the Protestant refomation 300+ years before Luther. I could of told St. Francis of Assisi to go get a job There would be no Mormonism, or Jehova's witnesses. Polygamy would be outlawed. All the perversions of Christianity would have been dealt with much sooner than now.
I disagree because there are such things as FALSE DOCTRINE and you use scripture to show the other Christian what they have been taught was in fact FALSE DOCTRINE
The guy in this video doesn't seem happy at all. I do not support his view. Think about it, you will know them by their fruits. What fruit is being produced by the public dispute of church matters? The word of God is foolishness to the unsaved. Therefore, the ones who have ears are .....uh....SAVED! So why all the fuss about trying to straighten the whole world out. This would be a different story if we were defending the gospel of our beloved Christ and what he has done cont...
but nooooo, we want everyone breathing to drink down our prideful cup of all knowing bible truths. YES, we can know God. NO, we cannot in this stage of life know him to the extent of being able to declare the ONLY truth on EVERY single subject matter. Where is your heart, people? Too busy trying to remove motes from our brothers' eyes in exchange for not spreading the gospel? Get's old seeing video after video from people trying to "fix" all things christian cont.....
on youtube. I believe in truth. I live on the truth of Christ crucified every day just as probably everyone that would happen across this video. Have we forgotten that all things are Christ?? Do you really believe someone is going to lose their salvation for having docrinal errors? Are you their voice of salvation, or is the bible? At what point will a man know enough to go to heaven? At what point will any of us obtain all knowledge? I know it won't be in this age, if ever.
I am soo fiery on this topic because I, personally, am caught up in the middle of the calvinist/arminian debate. I am a newer christian, and am torn on which is true. I have been praying about it. I am patiently waiting on God to show me. In the mean time I listen to Washer, Piper, MacArthur, and my pastor who is not calvinist. Then I come here to youtube because there is a wealth of resources on biblical topics except on calvinism and arminianism. All I find about that is scripture chess.
REALLY good video! The focus on learning about the Spirit and His work in us rather than looking for arguments with other Christians works for me!
One thing that tends to get rather cruelly exposed by doctrinal arguments is the feeble understanding of doctrine held by many Christians who HAVEN'T DONE THEIR HOMEWORK. Maybe that's the other message in this beautiful video.
Are you christians aware that there are books and churches that either allow and encourage multiple faiths to worship together like the "Faith House" in New York. To the damned and worldly understanding this makes sense. Many faiths one God. But to the born again believer comitted to Jesus Christ, he sees that is tandamount to cheating on your spouse. He is the bridegroom and we are the church. The narrow way, the truth vs the broad way and the false is what is really going on here.
If the Emergent church says that we need to become missional and go over seas not to convert peoples souls to truth and salvation, but rather go learn what the pagans are doing and join with them or bring it back to infect our churches....and the authentic church says no, that is pagan idolatry, spiritual cheating on God. I would not and could not by command participate in that, but you say we shouldn't disagree? Disagree with who- the new heretics?
I just had to google if Doug Eaton is someone from the Emergent church and sure enough, he name was there among them.! He was holding up a book called a new kind of heretic..or christian or something like that written by Rebellion Master Brain Mclaren.
I would really like to see authentic born again bible believing Christians become informed with what this Emergent church is teaching and how they are trying to reinvent christianity and Jesus and the gospel. Study and research and inform plz.
He, Eaton, was on tangle with this as I googled Is Eaton of the Emergent church? and it come up with this video. (The Emergent Church and its Self-Refuting Views)
I must admit humbly that this strange video coupled with seeing him with that man's book as already stated gave me an impression- but aparently, i was incorrect and jumped to conclusions, for which I am very sorry! This man was not, repeat NOT supporting the emergent in any way but building a great case against it! Forgive me? :)
Oh no, thank you for challenging that, so I would go back and double check my assumptions. I should have listened to everythign he had to say, it was just that this video about not fighting was sounding so much like the emergent and when he had that book! Ugh. I am truley thankful for the move to assist in my claifying this guy. If he is fighting for truth, I want to be clear on his believes and so on. Thanks and have a great one, Lane!
It's like people that say "you shouldn't judge man, because the bible says judge not..." but they fail to realize that they've just judged you! ...not to mention taking that scripture "judge not lest ye be..." totally out of context.
Good video! ...and they way you presented it was priceless!!!
The moral of this story is that God hates false doctrines. He isn't tolerant of them and we shouldn't be either. This is the message that pours from Scripture.
I agree that we should agree to disagree with those who disagree that we should agree to disagree. That way we will all agree, or agree to disagree in perfect unity!
Using "disagree" so much in one small bit of writing reminds me of Romans 7 where Paul uses "do" so much haha. Great passage by the way, that one in Romans 7...about doing what you do not what to do...not that there's any passage in the Bible that's not amazing. Praise God for He alone is good!
I like a lot of the videos you have Lane, especially the Paul Washer ones, but I'm not a fan of this one. It seems to send the message that disagreeing is okay when in reality it is not. There is one truth to everything and again, since we're all imperfect, there'll be disagreements, but there really should not be, not as Mr. Eaton seems to say there can be anyway. I think his message is incomplete to say the least. You've got some wonderful vids though, keep posting them!
"I like a lot of the videos you have Lane, especially the Paul Washer ones, but I'm not a fan of this one. It seems to send the message that disagreeing is okay when in reality it is not."
Thanks. Just so you know, though, you're disagreeing with me. :)
I probably should have stayed quiet haha. If we were both of the same mind as we ought to be, then we wouldn't be disagreeing, but since we're not, so we are (in disagreement that is). And you believe that you're right and I believe that I'm right, but nowhere in the Bible do I find that we (believers) should be in disagreement. However, since either one of us is right and the other wrong or maybe even both are wrong (I doubt it), I still disagree with you. :)
Person C is right in saying to person A and person B, who are in disagreement, that 2 Christians should not be in disagreement. It is biblical to be unified in Christ. If 2 people are truly in Christ and in agreement with Him, then they should not be in disagreement with each other. But since person A and person B are both imperfect, then there is likely to be a disagreement about something at some point, even if both have a saving faith. But ideally (key word), there should be no disagreement.
Its perfectly good to disagree with false doctrine. It goes bad when it becomes and argument. If some one holds false doctrine that you can see you MUST rebuke them, but with loving kindness and patience.
There shouldn't be arguing, we have the Holy Spirit and we have the Bible. It was only after the apostles were breaking bread together and of ONE MIND, the mind of Christ, that Pentecost came.
You really should be listening to James White on his "Diving-line" webcast. He has been going through Craig's Molinistic beliefs for the last three or four programs. Its frightening how close Craig is to Rome's views on salvation.
I'm sorry tbgx1 i'd have to disagree with you (seems like a common theme with the message haha), but seriously..can one honestly read Romans 9, accept it as truth, and then believe that predestination is false?
Also, there are passages such as Romans 8:28-29 or Ephesians 1:5
I believe in the COMPLETE sovereignty of God. Even if that means complete control of me and my salvation.
God gets ALL the glory in our salvation, not us by decision-ism.
Also, I have yet to hear a "Calvinist" answer to the problem of mentally handicapped persons (down syndrome, etc.)
I assume these people have souls, yet they in no way are capable of processing the particular arguments presented in these hair splitting doctrinal debates regarding who is and is not saved. Im not only speaking of severe retardation but simply "slow" persons who have a loose grasp of Sin and salvation but cannot follow these elitist levels of debate. Are they doomed?
You don't need a theological degree to be saved. All someone needs to know is that they must have Faith in Jesus Christ and his work of Atonement on the Cross. It's really that simple. And if they still do not comprehend, leave it to the mercy of God, just like aborted and small children.
LOL! Yea, there would probably be far less disagreements if we just joined forces & agreed to wander off the SAME side of the SAME bridge & into the SAME ditch were we can all DIE together...in "peace."
If you read the Bible, you will see there is no debate or argument over sin. Christ and believers rebuked sin with Scripture and they did not argue when the sinner. That's why yourubers waste time trying to convince sinners they're sinning. It's not their job.
On the other hand, Christ and believers adamently FOUGHT for the doctrine once delivered in the Word. To anything contrary to the one and only doctrine, it is to be knocked down with Scripture and settled. Arguing is a waste of time.
I think I might agree with your overall point even though I kind of got a little lost in your last paragraph so if I'm taking this out of context please let me know, but I'm just wondering if you realize that when you say, "Arguing is a waste of time" that you're arguing that arguing is a waste of time.
Arguing with the lost over their sin is pointless. They will either accept the Scriptural rebuke and repent, or reject the rebuke and continue sinning. Ignoring the rebuke is the same as continuing.
Arguing as a matter of settling doctrine is a waste of time, since doctrine is already settled. The colors of denominations that try to combine man's wisdom with God's wisdom like to argue from various Bible versions. Of course, the KJV stands above.
I see. Well, I would agree with your first paragraph in a sense. In one way, what sin is is pretty much settled because it's hard to reinterpret "Don't bear false witness." In your second paragraph, though, I believe that we should argue about doctrines in the sense of trying to come to some reconciliation about what the Scriptures mean. Even you do, or you wouldn't be arguing that the correct, Biblical teaching is that there is no need to argue.
When man's wisdom enters the conversation, including anything that would confuse any doctrine (I Cor 14:33) THAT is when we get into the flesh.
When we err by placing other books, our pride, our rights, revenge, knowledge or the earth equal to or greater than Scripture, or taking words out of context and the whole counsel of God, argument is a waste of time between believers. Unless and until we together recognize the Word as the LITERAL words of God, we're not agreeing on Biblical authority.
I mean, it's not like Calvinists are bullying people about postmillennialism versus dispensational premillennialism. The issue that we spend maybe 90% of our time debating is one of central importance to the gospel message of salvation: Are men ultimately saved because they earn the favor of God with the goodness of their "free" will, or is it because of a sovereign God who frees their will by his unmerited grace? It's not like this is a trivial issue on the same level as sanctuary carpet color.
Exactly. Soteriology (how someone is saved) is not a so-called "secondary issue". It's very important. Even the ones who disagree with us and believe we shouldn't debate the topic will debate us saying that we shouldn't be debating the topic. :)
(cont'd) Arminianism on the whole used to have at least theological basis. It was willing to form a reasoned argument, even if it couldn't defend its reason very well. But much like the political Left, contemporary Arminianism has experienced so much failure at debate that it now responds with the only argument that it has left: "Shut up." Don't have a good reply to the Calvinist's argument about the Greek "kosmos" in Jn. 3:16? Just tell him to shut up.
My intention was not pointing the finger to spot the mistakes of anybody nor any contradiction, but rather my intention is simply saying that Christians should solve their disagreements privately.
My intention was not stressing my IQ, nor express any kind of intellectual superiority (e.g., providing the final argument), but rather I intended to say Our divisions fuel the fire of the Atheist and other pagan groups.
So you used a public forum to air to all that you disagree with every Christian who has ever made clear that they disagree with another Christian on Youtube on a matter that you believe that Christians should solve their disagreements privately. Interesting.
It comes to my attention time and time again, and I have seen it on a few ocassions in this thread - but many Christians get into their disagreements with other Christians just to show superiority. Their pious disagreements and statements eschew the very thing they are chastising you for. One can spot such ignorants within the first sentence of their argument. They seldom debate, they always argue and they ALWAYS point fingers. Thank you for always opening up healthy debate.
I will be glad to show the world over that I divide from false doctorines. We are to expose false teachers and preach the true gospel and bring to light the false gospel and the error of those who preach it, which sadly is far more than those who preach the gospel found in the bible. The body of Christ(believers) is in good health, its only the false christians/hypocrites who make it look otherwise. Hard truth, but true none the less.
Jesus told us to correct our brothers, as far as sin is concerned, in private. As far as disputes are concerned, I believe that if we are going to settle disputes, we are to follow Paul's example, and correct them to their face. If we disagree, we don't go and tell the world that we disagree, but we tell the individual. Of course, some things are so trivial that we don't need to go that far, but for the things that do, that's the way we should go about it, only done in honor and love.
I understand where you're coming from, agfigueroaa, I see where you could back up your statement to rpavich with some Scripture, but we are in an atmosphere of greater understanding, right here. I'm not throwing stones at you, and I doubt that anyone else is either, what we are doing is refuting your statements. What happens if you meet someone on the street who knows the Bible better than you do and you have no idea how to come against that argument?
2 Corinthians 6:17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you
Luke 12:53They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.
You said,"I try to show the world that I follow Christ."
How will you show the world you follow Christ apart from separating from it.
Furthermore, as far as the Pharisee statement what a horrible misrepresentation you've made. The Pharisees and Sadducees wanted to show the world their selfrighteousness.
Matthew 23:25Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
Luke 18:9He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt
Also, pefect doctorine is found in scripture alone, and that is what we should preach. The closest statement I've seen to date outlineing these doctorines is the Westminster confession. Yet I'm sure having errors, I have yet to have them shown to me. MacArthur is pretty solid too, again nothing worth much debate. So please before you put me in the same catagory as the Pharasees, be sure you know of what you are speaking.
I like what cranmer was saying. You test the spirits and see if that sits well. It's possible for anyone to miss it, you know? I'm not sure where I heard this from but we must have such a deep love for truth and holiness that we will stand for it, and I believe that's what agfigueroaa was trying to get across. Loving the truth and holiness is evident in the way that we live our lives. It's like this--not in word, but in power also, and there is no greater witness than your own life.
exactly or almost exactly. I know I do not have the perfect doctrine. I know anybody has it.
We are saved because of Jesus, not for having a perfect dotrine. The Ph. and Sa. also believed that they had a perfect doctrine, the Jews too.
But, we are a body, and we have to solve our differences in love. We cannot be doing this as the world: point out the finger in public. Is this a Christian attitude? We have to show we have the true doctrine with our lives!
You had me until your attemp of mixing a verse with your opinion right at the end there.
Tell me what is the truth apart from doctorine? Tell me who Christ is without doctorine, tell me how to be saved apart from doctorine. I don't know why people are so afraid to open their mouths and speak the truth(doctorine) in the public or in private. I realize that when it come to church discipline it should be done in private, but otherwise whats wrong with open proclimation, as Paul Peter & Christ did
Wait... what? Nothings wrong with open proclamation. As I was saying, not in Word but in power also. Didn't Jesus tell us to PREACH the gospel? All I was saying is that actions more often than not speak louder than words, but open proclamation is not wrong. Jesus preached the Word in front of thousands. Our God is so good that even when His Word is enough, He will still come show us, just to show us how much He loves us. That's what He did on the cross. He didn't just tell us, He showed us.
You did not get what I said. I did not called you a Ph. or Sa.. I just said that your post recalled me the same type of mistake.
Both believed that they had the perfect doctrine, Jews too.
Your references showed me that you compared the wrong attributes, indeed and certainly, the ones you more differ from them. I did not call u a non-Christian.
But, compare the attibute of arrogancy about their command of the scripture.
How is it arrogance to state that I know the truth about certain doctorines? I know Christ is God, is that arrogance? I know salvation is by grace alone, is that arrogant? I know that apart from Gods calling and granting of faith and repentance everyone would be justly in Hell, is that arrogant, or is it the truth outlined clearly in scripture? I know the danger of pride, and the cost of lording it over others, painfully aware.
im not saying that doctrine is not important. it is critical, however, we get carried away with proving our point on very small issues. churches split over things like being baptized in the name of Jesus vs the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. it comes down to where our heart is, and what does the debate profit us? are we edifying the body or tearing it down?
zitan17, so the doctrine you're now debating for is, "(doctrine) is critical, however, we get carried away with proving our point on very small issues. churches split over things like being baptized in the name of Jesus vs the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. it comes down to where the heart is..." Interesting.
If debate doesn't profit us, then why are you debating? I believe you're doing it from an intention of edifying the body, are you not? If you didn't seek to edify the body with your point, why would you be debating it?
PS. I'm not pointing this out to be a jerk. I'm pointing it out to show that debating issues is inevitable if you're a Christian... even among Christians. In this video, Doug raises the objection that says basically that Christians shouldn't be debating doctrine, but we should focus on love then he shows how it doesn't make sense because the person saying we shouldn't debate is still debating. The same holds true in your case; just substitute "love" from the video with "reaching the lost".
i agree that there is a time and place for debating doctrine. but if that debate is not edifying the body or is hindering the body then it is not of God.
How do we determine if that doctrine needs to be debated or not without debating it? As Christians we don't need to follow any man blindly. We need to debate points and not merely accept them or reject them solely because someone tells us so. Debate provides us a way to come to issues objectively as much as possible. It's very profitable, and it edifies the body. Even our little "debate" is edifying others because they're getting to hear out both sides before they decide. (Prov. 18:17)
I am wondering how many times Jesus Christ had to say to the Pharisees: "You are in error."
In John 3:3, we hear Jesus saying to Nicodemus, who came to Him AT NIGHT asking him some questions: "You are a teacher of Israel, and you don't know these things?"
Jesus Christ always pointed his hearers to the Scriptures and its WORDS, which in Psalm 138:2 we are told is "magnified ABOVE His name."
Afrikitty 5 months ago
To quote John Wesley: "In the Essential Doctrines we have unity; in the non-essential doctrines we have freedom, and in all areas we have charity."
proverbs1824 8 months ago
Yea ,you could be the first actually funny christian stand up comedian,call yourself the funny fundy.Btw, I couldn't agree more.Most arguments against fundamental doctrine are self defeating you don't even have to exegete scripture to expose the fallacy.
CouchFamily2003 10 months ago
Your delivery was funny...and good point by the way.
theflarpus 1 year ago
Lane, try telling that to all those anti-Mormon activists so they'll once and for all stop militating against the LDS Church. Those activists are for the most part members of the Evangelical Church, while Mormons are Christians themselves
Bernytheplayboy 1 year ago
@Bernytheplayboy Mormon's are NOT Christians! They are members of a CULT invented by a troubled young man named Joseph Smith and further propagated by Brigham Young and like Cult Leaders. They DO NOT believe in the same God; and the Jesus of Mormonism is NOT the Jesus of true Christianity! God had no beginning and has no end. He wan not at anytime once a man. Jesus (the true Jesus) always was, but he did come to us as a man through the womb of a women; but, he was still in every way GOD!
proverbs1824 8 months ago
@proverbs1824 You're in no position to lecture me, since on the one hand you're saying this out of superstition, and on the other hand you're in conflict with the Bible. You say Jesus was not a created being? Proverbs 8:22: "The LORD created me the first of his works long ago, before all else that he made": that's from The Revised English Bible, a British edition of the Bible, and that was the God of the Old Testament speaking: Jesus.
Bernytheplayboy 8 months ago
@Bernytheplayboy A total misinterpretation of scripture. Jesus is the great "I AM". He had no beginning and he has no end! He, the Father, and the Holy Spirit have ALWAYS co-existed as ONE GOD! I AM the Lord thy God, who was, who is, and always will be!
proverbs1824 8 months ago
Us Christians are so human... hehe
ChristianNewsWatch 2 years ago
that sounds like a cop-out.
i'm all for standing for good doctrine, the argument used was just weak.
bwgls7 2 years ago
ok give me a better argument ??
MADmentality 2 years ago
@bwgls7 Why?
SeraphsWitness 1 year ago
those who dispute in their religion are far astray, your g-d is 1, there is no g-d but ALLAH and MUHAMMAD is his messenger!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ZoneOutGang 2 years ago
allah is nothing more then a ancient middle eastern moon god and muhammad was doomed to hell for rejecting Jesus as Saviour. Why are you going to make the same eternal mistake he made?
WarriorPriest28 2 years ago
you are about ten years behind with that argument!! LOL which of the 10,000 different kinds of christian are you? do you even know? i pray to the same CREATOR that MUHAMMAD, JESUS & ABRAHAM (pbut) prayed to so i think MUHAMMAD (pbuh) and I will be just fine! and who are you to condemn people to hell fire? exact reason i converted from your hipocritical pagan religion. My prayer for this EID is that we all see heaven!! salaams and rammadan mubarrak to the belivers!!
ZoneOutGang 2 years ago
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.
Sound to me like you should have taken care to study the Word of God before you listen to those who lie in wait with doctrine that were "revealed" by "an angel of light" to decieve even the very elect if it were possible.
as long as you trust religion you will die in your sins. Yeshua said
yeshua4U 2 years ago
Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the light, no one comes to the Father but through me" Jesus made no provisions for Muhammad being deified. Muhammad is just another false prophet using Jesus' name to validate his misguided, vengeful doctrine. Islam is just another fake religion with the perfect mix of half truths and full lies, much like Roman Catholicism. All that resulted is them steering MANY away from the one true faith.
MachoKokoa 2 years ago
blah blah blah... bottom line, i worship the same g-d that jesus worshipped (pbuh), in the same manner.... mabey you should stop watchin youtube n read a book ! LOL
ZoneOutGang 2 years ago
Here's the truth: if we don't love God and want to please people - we won't care about truth. But if we love God, who is Truth - Truth will matter to us. Also, as John Calvin rightly stated - the only true unity is unity in agreement in truth which will produce spiritual unity. Anything else is false unity. We must speak, dialogue, and wait for God's grace to come. By God's grace, He will bring the church to unity in agreement in sound and true doctrine. Truth matters. Or we'd be Hindus.
graceexplosion 2 years ago
Is that like "Stop judging me" they just judged that you are judging them.
Repent2God 2 years ago
Good video. The whole point you're responding to is bad on so many levels. Like you said, it in itself is a disagreement. And furthermore, it isn't even always true that disagreement causes disunity. I wouldn't be surprised if there were just as many cases where disagreement forged unity.
Slashtap3 2 years ago
Christ Jesus said "IF YOU DO NOT EAT MY BODY AND DRINK MY BLOOD YOU HAVE NO LIFE IN YOU!"
Christ Jesus is The Life.
And the Eucharist in the Holy Orthodox Church IS Christ Himself. Those of us who do partake..this is the fullness of Christ that He spoke about.
samthed 2 years ago
Christ God is emphatic that the Church is One. As Orthodox Christians we acknowledge that there is no schism in the Church. Those who are heretics have left the Church. There are no "denominations". You are either in communion with the Church(which also means we all have the same doctrine) and able to partake of the Body and Blood of Christ or you are out of the church. The Church is the Body of Christ..(that is those of us who eat his Body in the Orthodox church)..we are the Body of Christ.
samthed 2 years ago
Lose "a chance" at winning someone to Christ? Salvation isn't "chance." Salvation is a gift sovereignly bestowed by Almighty God. We are merely instruments God uses to bring His elect to salvation. I do not worry about offending the wicked. I worry more about pleasing Almighty God. The Gospel is not about "winning" souls. The law convicts sinners of their lost condition. The Gospel reveals God's mercy to His elect for whom Jesus came to die and redeem from their sins.
cranmer1959 2 years ago
Public heresy should be confronted publicly. When false preachers preach a false gospel or a false doctrine, then it is open season. "Earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints." (Jude 1:3, KJV).
cranmer1959 2 years ago
So, agfigueroaa, this isn't condemnation, this is information. So, don't feel like we're attacking you. We're not. God bless you, agfigueroaa.
MtelH 2 years ago
I had to learn this for myself. Lots of the people on here have shown me that my statements, in and of themselves, are wrong. The heart was right, but the heart doesn't always come out the right way. The Word divides between truth and error, and with the help of Holy Spirit, we are able to acknowledge where we could have missed it. If we are unable to acknowledge that we are wrong when we are clearly wrong, we turn it into a matter of pride, when it wasn't intended for that.
MtelH 2 years ago
Granted, we shouldn't argue with unbelievers because I have yet to see how that could help them get any closer to Jesus. I have seen Christians argue with Jehovah's witnesses and Jehovah's witnesses love to argue with Christians. They know the Word and will get you to check your Bible. Trust me. It is better to be shaken here in the midst of Christians who are out for your good, than to be shaken out there and lose a chance at winning someone to Jesus.
MtelH 2 years ago
the reason why evangelical "christians" disagree is because they have abanded the doctrine of the Church (no not the Roman rite) they have a spirit of dissention and the holy spirit is not in them. As the scriptures say in the John 1 " they where with us but not us for they would have stayed with us".
There is also no authority to discern false teachings.
The man in the video is right about one thing it is created doctrine and not of the apostles.
fidelisdiscipulus 2 years ago
Disagreements aren't wrong. Paul disagreed with Peter in Galatians 2, but when he disagreed and corrected him, he did it to his face. We can disagree, so long as honor and love are at the center of it. Trust me, fidelisdiscipulus, I love unity as much as the next person, so if we can disagree about something and come into unity as a result, that's how the body of Christ maintains its health.
MtelH 2 years ago
Good logic.
seanpaynedotnet 2 years ago
Disagreement and correction is fine, but arguing is not good; especially in front of certain people. Many disagreements should be brought up for the betterment of Gods people. Sometimes Christian cling to doctrine affiliated with denominations when some doctrine in all denominations are not perfect. We all know in part, but when we meet God face to face, we will know fully. (1 Cor 15) Yet God knows us in full.
iceylittle 2 years ago
If you follow Christ then you must "earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints." Do you guys ever actually read the Bible? Paul says we are to stand for sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it. Doctrine divides. Praise God that it does. Jesus came to divide the sheep from the goats. Are you a sheep or a goat?
cranmer1959 2 years ago
God has revealed EVERYTHING in His Word. If someone has something "new" that isn't in the Holy Bible, that person is most likely a false prophet. Jesus was and is God and man in one person. Preachers today are mere men and everything they say must be tested by God's Word. Try the spirits to see if they be of God. Search the Scriptures for in them ye think ye have eternal life. Anyone who tries to add to God's Word is a false prophet because there is only one revelation: the Bible.
cranmer1959 2 years ago
Of course, we can disagree on "secondary" doctrines like which mode of baptism we believe the Bible teaches or allows. But if you disagree with the trinity, you are NOT a Christian. If you believe that salvation can be earned or merited by being good or doing penance, etc., then you are not a Christian. The Gospel teaches that we are saved by grace alone through the gift of faith alone. The Law convicts us of our sins and drives us to Christ for mercy!
cranmer1959 2 years ago
Cranmer, you're absolutely right. This is the point I believe that everyone who calls themselves Christians needs to understand. We need to have a balance of truth and mercy if a united body of Christ is our goal. Yes, the Word divides truth and error, but we also want to be one as He is one, you know? We are one body and many parts. We all have equal love of the Father, which is half of why we come together. I understand that better now, thanks to those who are in their Word, so thanks guys!
MtelH 2 years ago
Doctrine is what determines IF you are a Christian or a Muslim. Doctrine determines whether you're a Mormon or a Christian. Jesus Christ came "teaching" and "preaching" DOCTRINE. HELLO????
cranmer1959 2 years ago
Hehehehe good joke... For the Love of God, it is obvious that we CAN'T be agree in the all things... But, among Christians, and I mean true christians, I think that the doctrine issue is not a barrier, because, even if it sound too used what join us (The TRUE LOVE OF GOD AND THE WORK OF JESUS CHRIST) is greater than the little things like doctrine... I mean, I have brothers of other "denominations" but we love eachother so much, that we said that those "labels" won't interrupt our friendship...
SirKerberos 2 years ago
God is not the author of confusion ... the path is narrow not broad ...
KentuckyLane1984 2 years ago
The world says Jesus was about unity when in fact the scripture shows that He was actually about division, seperating ourselves from sin and that becoming a child of God means set apart from this world and the children of the Devil. There is no scriptural support that we should tolerate unbiblical doctorine but that we should expose and refute it. Doctorine divides, as it should, the truth from error.
simshiver 2 years ago
You're absolutely correct! Jesus came not to bring peace, but a sword. And Hebrews 4:12 talks about how the Word discerns. David stresses loving God's law in Psalms 119. I'm not discounting that. I'm sure this is elementary to you, but what I am saying is that disagreements are okay, so long as they are done with honor. Not tearing down, but building up one another in love.
MtelH 2 years ago
So...wait....this video would be a new doctrine about the doctrine of differing doctrines.
MrDage 2 years ago
lol, it's an endless cycle!
daseasplitter 2 years ago
seriously... hopefully ur joking
KentuckyLane1984 2 years ago
Psalms 1-41 1 Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners
or sit in the seat of mockers. 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night.
3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in season
and whose leaf does not wither.
Whatever he does prospers.
We are to content for the faith, in truth.
Paul, cursed a guy and the guy lost his vision, (Blind)
Deesrickchevrolet 2 years ago
^^^^^ whoops, Psalm 1:1-3 ^^^^^
Deesrickchevrolet 2 years ago
I forgot something. In religion, if you come together for the sake of doctrine. In relationship,you come together because you have the same Father. So, maybe some things are taken out of context, but you eat the meat and spit out the bones. There are some things that my Pastor teaches that don't really sit well all the time, but I still love him regardless-- he's my spiritual father. Paul talked a lot about teachers and fathers in the NT. Check it out! It's really enlightening.
MtelH 2 years ago
You realize that you're presenting doctrine, don't you? :)
LaneCh 2 years ago
MteIH,
You do realize that you sound NOTHING like the bible when you say "if you come together for the sake of doctrine..." and "eat the meat and spit out the bones..."
The New Testament would disagree with you big-time.
I'm going with the bible on this one.
rpavich 2 years ago
I understand where you're coming from. What I am emphasizing is that if people are all about doctrine and tradition and the old, how will you be able to follow the new things that God is doing? For example, Jesus was at a well with a woman by themselves, breaking so many rules that we have to keep ourselves accountable. Granted, live by the rule, not by the exception, but what I was saying earlier was about teachers and fathers. Both are necessary. Teachers represent truth, and fathers mercy.
MtelH 2 years ago
Let's agree to disagree without being disagreeable, you know?
MtelH 2 years ago
I like that.
daseasplitter 2 years ago
Okay! He's absolutely right! We can totally disagree on doctrine, because a RELATIONSHIP with Jesus Christ isn't about doctrine. Religion tells you what to think instead of how to think. I admit that I am one of the ones who was on youtube telling people that we shouldn't be doing what we are doing. What I was directly coming against was the "You're of Satan, you can't be of God." I wasn't coming against disagreements-- I was coming against judgment and unpeaceful disagreements.
MtelH 2 years ago
Relationship with Jesus Christ isn't about doctrine? what verse is that? Romans 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. 1 Timothy 1:3
[ Warning Against False Teachers ] As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine,
jaykarroll 2 years ago
1 Timothy 1:10
the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
1 Timothy 4:6
[ A Good Servant of Christ Jesus ] If you put these things before the brothers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, being trained in the words of the faith and of the good doctrine that you have followed.
jaykarroll 2 years ago
1 Timothy 6:3
If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness,
Titus 1:9
He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
jaykarroll 2 years ago
Okay, but that's only part of what I was saying. Teaching is absolutely important-- don't get me wrong. But one thing I do want to throw out there (you judge what I say by the Word-- if I'm wrong, so be it) is that Paul emphasized on spiritual fathers. Paul wrote half of the NT and he told (I forget which letter it was) them that they have many teachers but not many fathers. That is what I am emphasizing on. Teaching is a ministry of the Holy Spirit-- I do not discount that by any means.
MtelH 2 years ago
Actually a "relationship" with Christ is all about doctorine, Satan has a relationship with Christ built of false doctorine, and his relationship is not a very good one. You must know the truth of who Christ is(right doctorine) before you can be saved. Beyond that you must repent and put your trust in Christ who is presented in scripture(more doctorine)
By the way everyone who is unsaved is of the Devil, and not of God, that's what Jesus said, so I don't think it's wrong to focus on that
simshiver 2 years ago
This world is so dark and sick. If only I could have lived in the 13th century. Knowing what I know now, I could have started the Protestant refomation 300+ years before Luther. I could of told St. Francis of Assisi to go get a job There would be no Mormonism, or Jehova's witnesses. Polygamy would be outlawed. All the perversions of Christianity would have been dealt with much sooner than now.
IamUberStein 2 years ago
I disagree because there are such things as FALSE DOCTRINE and you use scripture to show the other Christian what they have been taught was in fact FALSE DOCTRINE
mylongsword 2 years ago
The guy in this video doesn't seem happy at all. I do not support his view. Think about it, you will know them by their fruits. What fruit is being produced by the public dispute of church matters? The word of God is foolishness to the unsaved. Therefore, the ones who have ears are .....uh....SAVED! So why all the fuss about trying to straighten the whole world out. This would be a different story if we were defending the gospel of our beloved Christ and what he has done cont...
xplan4u 2 years ago
but nooooo, we want everyone breathing to drink down our prideful cup of all knowing bible truths. YES, we can know God. NO, we cannot in this stage of life know him to the extent of being able to declare the ONLY truth on EVERY single subject matter. Where is your heart, people? Too busy trying to remove motes from our brothers' eyes in exchange for not spreading the gospel? Get's old seeing video after video from people trying to "fix" all things christian cont.....
xplan4u 2 years ago
on youtube. I believe in truth. I live on the truth of Christ crucified every day just as probably everyone that would happen across this video. Have we forgotten that all things are Christ?? Do you really believe someone is going to lose their salvation for having docrinal errors? Are you their voice of salvation, or is the bible? At what point will a man know enough to go to heaven? At what point will any of us obtain all knowledge? I know it won't be in this age, if ever.
xplan4u 2 years ago
I am soo fiery on this topic because I, personally, am caught up in the middle of the calvinist/arminian debate. I am a newer christian, and am torn on which is true. I have been praying about it. I am patiently waiting on God to show me. In the mean time I listen to Washer, Piper, MacArthur, and my pastor who is not calvinist. Then I come here to youtube because there is a wealth of resources on biblical topics except on calvinism and arminianism. All I find about that is scripture chess.
xplan4u 2 years ago
Good Point this guy makes! Amen to that!
keljesusgirl 2 years ago
Comment removed
john146only 2 years ago
REALLY good video! The focus on learning about the Spirit and His work in us rather than looking for arguments with other Christians works for me!
One thing that tends to get rather cruelly exposed by doctrinal arguments is the feeble understanding of doctrine held by many Christians who HAVEN'T DONE THEIR HOMEWORK. Maybe that's the other message in this beautiful video.
curvalecce 2 years ago
Hi Doug
elfenomeno777 2 years ago
Are you christians aware that there are books and churches that either allow and encourage multiple faiths to worship together like the "Faith House" in New York. To the damned and worldly understanding this makes sense. Many faiths one God. But to the born again believer comitted to Jesus Christ, he sees that is tandamount to cheating on your spouse. He is the bridegroom and we are the church. The narrow way, the truth vs the broad way and the false is what is really going on here.
john146only 2 years ago
So what consistutes 'doctrine' Doug Eaton?
If the Emergent church says that we need to become missional and go over seas not to convert peoples souls to truth and salvation, but rather go learn what the pagans are doing and join with them or bring it back to infect our churches....and the authentic church says no, that is pagan idolatry, spiritual cheating on God. I would not and could not by command participate in that, but you say we shouldn't disagree? Disagree with who- the new heretics?
john146only 2 years ago
It's wrong to believe false doctrine.
Psylliumhead 2 years ago
theawakener7:
Did you just say that Satan will be saved?
Are you a tare?
john146only 2 years ago
I just had to google if Doug Eaton is someone from the Emergent church and sure enough, he name was there among them.! He was holding up a book called a new kind of heretic..or christian or something like that written by Rebellion Master Brain Mclaren.
I would really like to see authentic born again bible believing Christians become informed with what this Emergent church is teaching and how they are trying to reinvent christianity and Jesus and the gospel. Study and research and inform plz.
john146only 2 years ago
Are you sure you didn't see Doug Pagitt?
LaneCh 2 years ago
Comment removed
john146only 2 years ago
He, Eaton, was on tangle with this as I googled Is Eaton of the Emergent church? and it come up with this video. (The Emergent Church and its Self-Refuting Views)
I must admit humbly that this strange video coupled with seeing him with that man's book as already stated gave me an impression- but aparently, i was incorrect and jumped to conclusions, for which I am very sorry! This man was not, repeat NOT supporting the emergent in any way but building a great case against it! Forgive me? :)
john146only 2 years ago
Forgiven! LOL
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Christians ar definitely called to debate and defend important doctrines! Stand up for the faith! Let us not become "politically correct Christians!"
keljesusgirl 2 years ago
Loving it keljesusgirl! Hug!
john146only 2 years ago
Thanks for clarifying that, john146only. I truly appreciate your honesty. Blessings, brother.
LaneCh 2 years ago
Oh no, thank you for challenging that, so I would go back and double check my assumptions. I should have listened to everythign he had to say, it was just that this video about not fighting was sounding so much like the emergent and when he had that book! Ugh. I am truley thankful for the move to assist in my claifying this guy. If he is fighting for truth, I want to be clear on his believes and so on. Thanks and have a great one, Lane!
john146only 2 years ago
Seperate your selves unto the LORD your God ,and then agree to agree with The LORd your God , and agree with HIM only. BE BLESSED.
LONESTAROFDAVID 2 years ago
You are speaking heresy and are contradicting the Lord Jesus Christ.
Isaiah469 2 years ago
This provides a telling answer to a very pertinent question, "What is more important? Obedience to our Lord, or striving for sound doctrine?"
joshuadmeans 2 years ago
hahaha very nicely said!! :)
God Bless
ChristLovesEvenMe 2 years ago
LOL!!! Man you just made my day!
It's like people that say "you shouldn't judge man, because the bible says judge not..." but they fail to realize that they've just judged you! ...not to mention taking that scripture "judge not lest ye be..." totally out of context.
Good video! ...and they way you presented it was priceless!!!
YouThoughtYouKnew 2 years ago
Can you imagine Moses coming down with the "10 Suggestions"??
Hey thanks for posting my cheezy video resposnse Lane!!!
mumpty 2 years ago
The moral of this story is that God hates false doctrines. He isn't tolerant of them and we shouldn't be either. This is the message that pours from Scripture.
agat0r 2 years ago
Disagreement and arguement is more profitable for learning than agreement.
Two men who are in perfect agreement can't learn anything from one another.
Spurgeon123 2 years ago
In book of Acts, Paul and another Apostle really get into it.....I think chapter 19.
cornmom2002 2 years ago
I agree that we should agree to disagree with those who disagree that we should agree to disagree. That way we will all agree, or agree to disagree in perfect unity!
VisionArts 2 years ago
I couldn't have said it better myself. :^)
Kevbox2008 2 years ago
so what's the solution?
do we, as christians, have to agree to always disagree with other christians?
i don't find any solution.
yanadi 2 years ago
thank you for this
joejumps4fun 2 years ago
Quote:
I do not know If this is the type of body Christ intended. I mean, a body that makes public (to the world) its divisions.
Well, someone should have told Paul that before he penned 1/3 of the New Testament aimed at correcting false doctrine!
rpavich 2 years ago
Yes! Paul stood up and spoke loudly when false doctrine tried to creep in. If Christians don't stand up, the apostates will overrun us!
OmegaIsNear 2 years ago
nice
makemehumbleLord267 2 years ago
Using "disagree" so much in one small bit of writing reminds me of Romans 7 where Paul uses "do" so much haha. Great passage by the way, that one in Romans 7...about doing what you do not what to do...not that there's any passage in the Bible that's not amazing. Praise God for He alone is good!
Danastix 2 years ago
In my last post, "disagreeing" should read "disagreeing among believers."
Danastix 2 years ago
I like a lot of the videos you have Lane, especially the Paul Washer ones, but I'm not a fan of this one. It seems to send the message that disagreeing is okay when in reality it is not. There is one truth to everything and again, since we're all imperfect, there'll be disagreements, but there really should not be, not as Mr. Eaton seems to say there can be anyway. I think his message is incomplete to say the least. You've got some wonderful vids though, keep posting them!
Danastix 2 years ago
"I like a lot of the videos you have Lane, especially the Paul Washer ones, but I'm not a fan of this one. It seems to send the message that disagreeing is okay when in reality it is not."
Thanks. Just so you know, though, you're disagreeing with me. :)
LaneCh 2 years ago
I probably should have stayed quiet haha. If we were both of the same mind as we ought to be, then we wouldn't be disagreeing, but since we're not, so we are (in disagreement that is). And you believe that you're right and I believe that I'm right, but nowhere in the Bible do I find that we (believers) should be in disagreement. However, since either one of us is right and the other wrong or maybe even both are wrong (I doubt it), I still disagree with you. :)
Danastix 2 years ago
Person C is right in saying to person A and person B, who are in disagreement, that 2 Christians should not be in disagreement. It is biblical to be unified in Christ. If 2 people are truly in Christ and in agreement with Him, then they should not be in disagreement with each other. But since person A and person B are both imperfect, then there is likely to be a disagreement about something at some point, even if both have a saving faith. But ideally (key word), there should be no disagreement.
Danastix 2 years ago
Its perfectly good to disagree with false doctrine. It goes bad when it becomes and argument. If some one holds false doctrine that you can see you MUST rebuke them, but with loving kindness and patience.
There shouldn't be arguing, we have the Holy Spirit and we have the Bible. It was only after the apostles were breaking bread together and of ONE MIND, the mind of Christ, that Pentecost came.
700bees 2 years ago
I agree with all Christians. However, since so many things are disputed this reduces to rubbish.
raunchbear 2 years ago
I was thinking in the back of my head, "Why did Doug post this twice?"
Studier101 2 years ago
I KNEW IT!!!
This is Lane's page...
Oh well...
Studier101 2 years ago
Doug, I am having this dream where you have allowed comments on your page and I am typing one in.
I wonder when I will wake up again.
Hehe...lol.
Studier101 2 years ago
Been looking into Calvinism for a while now.
It doesn't add up.
I guess God predetermined that I should not be Calvinist.
I think William Craig doe's a good job of exposing Calvinism as the MAN made doctrine that I now believe it to be.
tbgx1 2 years ago
You really should be listening to James White on his "Diving-line" webcast. He has been going through Craig's Molinistic beliefs for the last three or four programs. Its frightening how close Craig is to Rome's views on salvation.
4570sharps 2 years ago
I'm sorry tbgx1 i'd have to disagree with you (seems like a common theme with the message haha), but seriously..can one honestly read Romans 9, accept it as truth, and then believe that predestination is false?
Also, there are passages such as Romans 8:28-29 or Ephesians 1:5
I believe in the COMPLETE sovereignty of God. Even if that means complete control of me and my salvation.
God gets ALL the glory in our salvation, not us by decision-ism.
read Isaiah 14:27 with the other 2 ref. posted.
thepiedpiper13 2 years ago
Are you suggesting that only "Calvinists" are going to be saved? And do "hard" calvinists believe that "soft" calvinists are going to hell as well?
Doesn't the bible have an actual number regarding how many people will be in "new jerusalem in the sky? (heaven)
*something like 150,000.
Pretty frightening to think that of Billions, only 150,000 or so make it.
Talk about "eye of the needle"! Maybe hard Calvinists are right. He,he.
I'll continue to look into this... cont.
tbgx1 2 years ago
Also, I have yet to hear a "Calvinist" answer to the problem of mentally handicapped persons (down syndrome, etc.)
I assume these people have souls, yet they in no way are capable of processing the particular arguments presented in these hair splitting doctrinal debates regarding who is and is not saved. Im not only speaking of severe retardation but simply "slow" persons who have a loose grasp of Sin and salvation but cannot follow these elitist levels of debate. Are they doomed?
tbgx1 2 years ago
You don't need a theological degree to be saved. All someone needs to know is that they must have Faith in Jesus Christ and his work of Atonement on the Cross. It's really that simple. And if they still do not comprehend, leave it to the mercy of God, just like aborted and small children.
wintersdemise 2 years ago
"All someone needs to know is that they must have Faith in Jesus Christ and his work of Atonement on the Cross"
I would tend to agree, but "calvinists" do not seem to think this way at all.
It seems that you either agree with them or you are going to hell. Why else all the fervor, hairsplitting and passionate debate?
I am inspired by Washer and Piper who I believe are considered "soft" calvinists, but some accuse Washer of preaching works! lol
Winning debate does not = Truth!
tbgx1 2 years ago
I don't see how thepiedpiper13 even implied that only Calvinists are going to be saved.
LifeIsSoAwesome 2 years ago
I assume that a defense of Calvinism presumes a belief that only Calvinists (persons holding "calvinists" interpretations) are saved.
Am I wrong?
tbgx1 2 years ago
Well, yes. Calvinists don't necessarily believe that non-Calvinists are lost. Some do, but you can't judge them all because of a few cases.
LifeIsSoAwesome 2 years ago
LOL! Yea, there would probably be far less disagreements if we just joined forces & agreed to wander off the SAME side of the SAME bridge & into the SAME ditch were we can all DIE together...in "peace."
That's what Jesus would do...
....ain't it?
I don't know...hummm...let's see:
Matthew 15:14, Luke 6:39
Surveys says, "DING, DING, DING - NO! That's NOT what He would do at all!!!"
fruitofspirit 2 years ago
haha awesome, wouldn't we all like to see less of that in the world. God Bless
JoshnJesus 2 years ago
I see no problem with disagreeing unless it takes the focus of of Christ.
Its about Him, not us anyhow.
God bless :)
ChristiansHurt 2 years ago
I'm in complete agreement, ChristiansHurt.
LaneCh 2 years ago
I like this!
MtelH 2 years ago
Lane, your ministry has been a real blessing to me!
multiwebinc 2 years ago
If you read the Bible, you will see there is no debate or argument over sin. Christ and believers rebuked sin with Scripture and they did not argue when the sinner. That's why yourubers waste time trying to convince sinners they're sinning. It's not their job.
On the other hand, Christ and believers adamently FOUGHT for the doctrine once delivered in the Word. To anything contrary to the one and only doctrine, it is to be knocked down with Scripture and settled. Arguing is a waste of time.
pshinspections 2 years ago
I think I might agree with your overall point even though I kind of got a little lost in your last paragraph so if I'm taking this out of context please let me know, but I'm just wondering if you realize that when you say, "Arguing is a waste of time" that you're arguing that arguing is a waste of time.
LaneCh 2 years ago
I meant that in contect, so I will clarify.
Arguing with the lost over their sin is pointless. They will either accept the Scriptural rebuke and repent, or reject the rebuke and continue sinning. Ignoring the rebuke is the same as continuing.
Arguing as a matter of settling doctrine is a waste of time, since doctrine is already settled. The colors of denominations that try to combine man's wisdom with God's wisdom like to argue from various Bible versions. Of course, the KJV stands above.
pshinspections 2 years ago
I see. Well, I would agree with your first paragraph in a sense. In one way, what sin is is pretty much settled because it's hard to reinterpret "Don't bear false witness." In your second paragraph, though, I believe that we should argue about doctrines in the sense of trying to come to some reconciliation about what the Scriptures mean. Even you do, or you wouldn't be arguing that the correct, Biblical teaching is that there is no need to argue.
LaneCh 2 years ago
When man's wisdom enters the conversation, including anything that would confuse any doctrine (I Cor 14:33) THAT is when we get into the flesh.
When we err by placing other books, our pride, our rights, revenge, knowledge or the earth equal to or greater than Scripture, or taking words out of context and the whole counsel of God, argument is a waste of time between believers. Unless and until we together recognize the Word as the LITERAL words of God, we're not agreeing on Biblical authority.
pshinspections 2 years ago
Man's mind comes into play ever time one try's to walk IN JUDEO anything.
We are supposed to Use Scripture, the whole for correction and reproof etc.
There must be by necessity be DIVISION, Jesus wanted it that way.
I side on Jesus' side over any mans opinion.
ChristianArmorOfGod 2 years ago
I mean, it's not like Calvinists are bullying people about postmillennialism versus dispensational premillennialism. The issue that we spend maybe 90% of our time debating is one of central importance to the gospel message of salvation: Are men ultimately saved because they earn the favor of God with the goodness of their "free" will, or is it because of a sovereign God who frees their will by his unmerited grace? It's not like this is a trivial issue on the same level as sanctuary carpet color.
mothcorrupteth 2 years ago
Exactly. Soteriology (how someone is saved) is not a so-called "secondary issue". It's very important. Even the ones who disagree with us and believe we shouldn't debate the topic will debate us saying that we shouldn't be debating the topic. :)
LaneCh 2 years ago
(cont'd) Arminianism on the whole used to have at least theological basis. It was willing to form a reasoned argument, even if it couldn't defend its reason very well. But much like the political Left, contemporary Arminianism has experienced so much failure at debate that it now responds with the only argument that it has left: "Shut up." Don't have a good reply to the Calvinist's argument about the Greek "kosmos" in Jn. 3:16? Just tell him to shut up.
mothcorrupteth 2 years ago
Amen!
yshuasgathering 2 years ago
I think the problem is not the disagreement, but the way you express it.
I do not think it is good to use utube for this purpose, because it motivates Atheists and other pagans to laugh at us.
agfigueroaa 2 years ago
So your purpose in using Youtube this morning is to debate your point that we shouldn't be using Youtube for the purpose of debating. Interesting.
LaneCh 2 years ago
My intention was not pointing the finger to spot the mistakes of anybody nor any contradiction, but rather my intention is simply saying that Christians should solve their disagreements privately.
My intention was not stressing my IQ, nor express any kind of intellectual superiority (e.g., providing the final argument), but rather I intended to say Our divisions fuel the fire of the Atheist and other pagan groups.
agfigueroaa 2 years ago
So you used a public forum to air to all that you disagree with every Christian who has ever made clear that they disagree with another Christian on Youtube on a matter that you believe that Christians should solve their disagreements privately. Interesting.
LaneCh 2 years ago
Hello Lane,
It comes to my attention time and time again, and I have seen it on a few ocassions in this thread - but many Christians get into their disagreements with other Christians just to show superiority. Their pious disagreements and statements eschew the very thing they are chastising you for. One can spot such ignorants within the first sentence of their argument. They seldom debate, they always argue and they ALWAYS point fingers. Thank you for always opening up healthy debate.
Afrikitty 2 years ago
Thanks for the encouragement, Liz. I hope you're doing well.
LaneCh 2 years ago
I think it is bad that the world (because many watch your videos) see our divisions. I think the priority is preaching the gospel.
I do not know If this is the type of body Christ intended. I mean, a body that makes public (to the world) its divisions.
I used a public forum to air that I think it is not good for the body of Christ to do this.
My intention was doing this with love, not with irony.
agfigueroaa 2 years ago
I will be glad to show the world over that I divide from false doctorines. We are to expose false teachers and preach the true gospel and bring to light the false gospel and the error of those who preach it, which sadly is far more than those who preach the gospel found in the bible. The body of Christ(believers) is in good health, its only the false christians/hypocrites who make it look otherwise. Hard truth, but true none the less.
simshiver 2 years ago
From where I stand, I do not have nothing to show to the world in terms of dividing from false doctrine. I try to show the world that I follow Christ.
Nevertheless, your post recalls me the attitude of the Pharisees and Saduceans.
They also wanted to show the world that they separated from false doctrines, even though few of them realised that they fell into one.
However, if someone claims to have the perfect doctrine should throw the first stone.
agfigueroaa 2 years ago
agfigueroaa,
So...let me get this straight...you don't divide over false doctrine?
nice...
rpavich 2 years ago
I do not know what I need to say to make people to understand my point.
I think we should solve our differences privetely.
Is this enough clear?
I also said that this type of "pointing the finger attitude" looks like the Ph. and the Sa.
Is this clear?
But, if you have the right doctrine rpavich, can you pray to God and thanks him for that blessing?
agfigueroaa 2 years ago
agfigueroaa,
Where did you get the idea that Christians should "solve their differences privately?"
Certainly not from the bible...
rpavich 2 years ago
Jesus told us to correct our brothers, as far as sin is concerned, in private. As far as disputes are concerned, I believe that if we are going to settle disputes, we are to follow Paul's example, and correct them to their face. If we disagree, we don't go and tell the world that we disagree, but we tell the individual. Of course, some things are so trivial that we don't need to go that far, but for the things that do, that's the way we should go about it, only done in honor and love.
MtelH 2 years ago
rpavich,
"Certainly not from the bible... "
If you think that the bible encourages you to throwing stones to everyone who makes a mistake in their doctrine, then have fun doing it.
agfigueroaa 2 years ago
I understand where you're coming from, agfigueroaa, I see where you could back up your statement to rpavich with some Scripture, but we are in an atmosphere of greater understanding, right here. I'm not throwing stones at you, and I doubt that anyone else is either, what we are doing is refuting your statements. What happens if you meet someone on the street who knows the Bible better than you do and you have no idea how to come against that argument?
MtelH 2 years ago
agfigueroaa,
So you made the leap from correcting doctrine to "throwing stones and everyone who makes a mistake in their doctrine"
Nice straw man....get the matches.
rpavich 2 years ago
nice way to show as an example of what he just said...
FreddieJack 2 years ago
2 Corinthians 6:17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you
Luke 12:53They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.
You said,"I try to show the world that I follow Christ."
How will you show the world you follow Christ apart from separating from it.
simshiver 2 years ago
Furthermore, as far as the Pharisee statement what a horrible misrepresentation you've made. The Pharisees and Sadducees wanted to show the world their selfrighteousness.
Matthew 23:25Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
Luke 18:9He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt
simshiver 2 years ago
Also, pefect doctorine is found in scripture alone, and that is what we should preach. The closest statement I've seen to date outlineing these doctorines is the Westminster confession. Yet I'm sure having errors, I have yet to have them shown to me. MacArthur is pretty solid too, again nothing worth much debate. So please before you put me in the same catagory as the Pharasees, be sure you know of what you are speaking.
simshiver 2 years ago
And if you want to refute what I said please don't use the judge not verse as your prooftext, that one has already been missused enough, thanks.
simshiver 2 years ago
I like what cranmer was saying. You test the spirits and see if that sits well. It's possible for anyone to miss it, you know? I'm not sure where I heard this from but we must have such a deep love for truth and holiness that we will stand for it, and I believe that's what agfigueroaa was trying to get across. Loving the truth and holiness is evident in the way that we live our lives. It's like this--not in word, but in power also, and there is no greater witness than your own life.
MtelH 2 years ago
MtelH,
exactly or almost exactly. I know I do not have the perfect doctrine. I know anybody has it.
We are saved because of Jesus, not for having a perfect dotrine. The Ph. and Sa. also believed that they had a perfect doctrine, the Jews too.
But, we are a body, and we have to solve our differences in love. We cannot be doing this as the world: point out the finger in public. Is this a Christian attitude? We have to show we have the true doctrine with our lives!
:)
agfigueroaa 2 years ago
You had me until your attemp of mixing a verse with your opinion right at the end there.
Tell me what is the truth apart from doctorine? Tell me who Christ is without doctorine, tell me how to be saved apart from doctorine. I don't know why people are so afraid to open their mouths and speak the truth(doctorine) in the public or in private. I realize that when it come to church discipline it should be done in private, but otherwise whats wrong with open proclimation, as Paul Peter & Christ did
simshiver 2 years ago
Wait... what? Nothings wrong with open proclamation. As I was saying, not in Word but in power also. Didn't Jesus tell us to PREACH the gospel? All I was saying is that actions more often than not speak louder than words, but open proclamation is not wrong. Jesus preached the Word in front of thousands. Our God is so good that even when His Word is enough, He will still come show us, just to show us how much He loves us. That's what He did on the cross. He didn't just tell us, He showed us.
MtelH 2 years ago
You did not get what I said. I did not called you a Ph. or Sa.. I just said that your post recalled me the same type of mistake.
Both believed that they had the perfect doctrine, Jews too.
Your references showed me that you compared the wrong attributes, indeed and certainly, the ones you more differ from them. I did not call u a non-Christian.
But, compare the attibute of arrogancy about their command of the scripture.
Jews were so and crucified Jesus.
agfigueroaa 2 years ago
Comment removed
simshiver 2 years ago
How is it arrogance to state that I know the truth about certain doctorines? I know Christ is God, is that arrogance? I know salvation is by grace alone, is that arrogant? I know that apart from Gods calling and granting of faith and repentance everyone would be justly in Hell, is that arrogant, or is it the truth outlined clearly in scripture? I know the danger of pride, and the cost of lording it over others, painfully aware.
simshiver 2 years ago
amen, deaton29! Thanks for posting this video, LaneCh.
DefendingCalvinism 2 years ago
Great message.
If you love God you will also love His word.
If you love his word you will also love true doctrine based on Gods word.
And if you love true doctrine you willalso hate false doctrine.
jmhjmh5 2 years ago
Christians should spend less time debating doctrine with each other and more time reaching the lost.
zitan17 2 years ago
ok, if doctrine does not matter then what message should the lost get? How about a false gospel?
rstora01 2 years ago
im not saying that doctrine is not important. it is critical, however, we get carried away with proving our point on very small issues. churches split over things like being baptized in the name of Jesus vs the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. it comes down to where our heart is, and what does the debate profit us? are we edifying the body or tearing it down?
zitan17 2 years ago
zitan17, so the doctrine you're now debating for is, "(doctrine) is critical, however, we get carried away with proving our point on very small issues. churches split over things like being baptized in the name of Jesus vs the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. it comes down to where the heart is..." Interesting.
LaneCh 2 years ago
..., and what does the debate profit us? are we edifying the body or tearing it down?
zitan17 2 years ago
If debate doesn't profit us, then why are you debating? I believe you're doing it from an intention of edifying the body, are you not? If you didn't seek to edify the body with your point, why would you be debating it?
LaneCh 2 years ago
So your doctrine you're debating for is, "Christians should spend less time debating doctrine and more time reaching the lost." Interesting.
LaneCh 2 years ago
PS. I'm not pointing this out to be a jerk. I'm pointing it out to show that debating issues is inevitable if you're a Christian... even among Christians. In this video, Doug raises the objection that says basically that Christians shouldn't be debating doctrine, but we should focus on love then he shows how it doesn't make sense because the person saying we shouldn't debate is still debating. The same holds true in your case; just substitute "love" from the video with "reaching the lost".
LaneCh 2 years ago
i agree that there is a time and place for debating doctrine. but if that debate is not edifying the body or is hindering the body then it is not of God.
zitan17 2 years ago
How do we determine if that doctrine needs to be debated or not without debating it? As Christians we don't need to follow any man blindly. We need to debate points and not merely accept them or reject them solely because someone tells us so. Debate provides us a way to come to issues objectively as much as possible. It's very profitable, and it edifies the body. Even our little "debate" is edifying others because they're getting to hear out both sides before they decide. (Prov. 18:17)
LaneCh 2 years ago