YOU MISUNDERSTAND: I MOST CERTAINLY DO BELIEVE IN THE PRE- TRIBULATION RAPTURE. I DO APOLOGIZE FOR THIS MISUNDERSTANDING ON MY PART. SEE YOU IN THE CLOUDS WITH OUR LORD JESUS. ( BROTHER ).
Great deception! Jesus Himself said, "Immediately AFTER the Tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven..and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER His elect.."
Holding to a Pre-Tribulation rapture notion is drastically weakening the Church worldwide. The Church should be preparing for spiritual battle against the most evil forces arrayed by hell. Instead, the Church is lukewarm and languishing with a false hope. This is all orchestrated by demonic powers in order to result in a limp army of believers,who will not endure til the end. In this age of laxity among Christians, it does not take much on the part of the dark powers to accomplish this goal.
RESPONSE TO LOOK WHAT MANY GODLY PEOPLE WENT THROUGH: WE ALL GO THROUGH TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS. BUT, THIS IS THE NORMAL CHRISTIAN LIFE. HOWEVER, THE GREAT TRIBULATION IS ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE, SUCH AS NEVER BEFORE WAS NOR EVER AGAIN SHALL BE. MATT.24-21.
BESIDES YOUR CONTRIDICTING SCRIPTURES(NO MAN KNOWS THE DAY NOR HOUR) MATT.24-36. BUT, YOU DO KNOW: BECAUSE ANTICHRIST RULES FOR 42 MONTHS. REV.13-5. THEN CHIST RETURNS AND DESTROYS HIM. REV.19-20. SIMPLY COUNT WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE.
YOU"VE REJECTED EVERY SCRIPTURE GIVEN TO YOU. YOU MOST CERTAINLY WILL GO THROUGH THE GREAT TRIBULATION.YOUR IMPLYING THAT ONLY THE SUPER AND STRONG CHRISTIANS WILL MAKE IT. SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST. OBVIOUSLY THE WEAK,ELDERLY,SICK HANDICAPPED,CHILDREN,BABIES,NURSING MOMS WON'T MAKE IT. YOU'RE TRYING TO TAKE AWAY OUR BLESSED HOPE.
SINCE WHEN DID GOD POUR OUT HIS WRATH ON THE RIGHTEOUS??
WHY IS ANGEL PREACHING THE GOSPEL? REV.13-7? IT'S BECAUSE WE'RE NOT HERE.
YES I WOULD. HOWEVER, WE DO KNOW THE TIMES AND SEASONS(1THESS.5-1)VERSE 4- BUT THAT DAY WILL NOT OVERTAKE( US) AS A THIEF. VERSE 3-SUDDEN DESTRUCTION COMES AND (THEY) SHALL NOT ESCAPE( NOT REFERING TO US) VERSE 9-FOR GOD HAS NOT APPOINTED(US) TO WRATH.THE GREAT TRIBULATION IS GOD'S WRATH POURED OUT ON THE UNGODLY (NOT CHRISTIANS) REV.3-10 JESUS WILL KEEP US( FROM) THE HOUR OF TEMPTATION. LUKE 21-36 WATCH AND PRAY THAT YOU MAY BE WORTHY TO (ESCAPE) ALL THESE THINGS. MAY ALL BELIEVERS ESCAPE.
Are those who become believers during the tribulation subject to God's wrath? We have to stop misusing the "not appointed to wrath" verse in an attempt to prove pre-trib it has nothing to do with that.
JESUS SAID: AS IN THE DAYS OF LOT; THEY ATE,THEY DRANK,(NO FAMINE) THEY BOUGHT AND SOLD,(YOU CAN'T BUY OR SELL DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION) THEY PLANTED AND BUILDED.(PROSPERITY DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION??? NOT HARDLY) . THIS IS CLEARLY REFERING TO THE RAPTURE AND NOT GOING THROUGH THE GREAT TRIBULATION SUCH AS NEVER WAS SO TERRIBLE NOR EVER AGAIN SHALL BE. MATT.24-21. WE ARE THE( BRIDE) OF CHRIST. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN (NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR HOUR)??
YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY QUESTION. WHY WOULD JESUS PUT HIS BRIDE THROUGH THE GREAT TRIBULATION??? WHAT DO YOU DO WITH PSALMS 91 WHICH PROMISES DELIVERANCE AND SAYS THERE SHALL NO EVIL BEFALL YOU???
Look at what shadrach, meshach and abendago went through, or Daniel. All things happen for his glory. Miracles and mighty things can happen and many souls are often reached through persecution through seeing the faith of those who walk unwaveringly to their death for Christ.
His glory is shown in persecution, in tribulation, in suffering. It's a refiners fire. Look at what Jesus went through...was it needless? wasn't it for the glory of God?
Jesus said we will suffer as he suffered. That the servant is not greater than his master, if he suffered we will too. We're told not to fear him who can destroy the body, but fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
@ROMANWABLE "YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY QUESTION. WHY WOULD JESUS PUT HIS BRIDE THROUGH THE GREAT TRIBULATION???"
My input....Because she is unclean in her current state, the great whore of Babylon.
His bride are the remnants of the 12 tribes of Israel, who God has reserved, and who God divorced in Jer. 3:8.....but she shall be purified and made again into a virgin bride.
Its not about a death wish, I'd love it if pre trib were true, but I have to go by what I see in the scriptures even if my desires would be to go before. When things get difficult our instinct is to run to avoid trials and tribulations but we were not promised to escape them but strength to get through.
common sense...who wouldn't want to escape beforehand? i mean the will to survive is one of the strongest desires that we have. Its contrary to our nature to walk into death.
To believe is pre-trib is a dream come true so to speak, but having said that don't you see a problem? Out of nearly all the doctrines out there that has to be the largest tickle the ear doctrine. Its what our nature wants to hear.
WHAT IS IT WITH YOU POST TRIBULATION ADHERENTS?? DO YOU HAVE SOME KIND OF SECRET DEATH WISH?? EVEN COMMON SENSE DEMANDS A PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE. WE ARE THE (BRIDE) OF CHRIST. WHAT MAN AMONG YOU WOULD PUT HIS BRIDE THROUGH A TIME OF UNPRESIDENTED HORROR SUCH AS THE WORLD HAS NEVER KNOWN. EVEN THE UNGODLY DON'T DO THAT. READ ISAIAH 57 - 1,2 AND WHAT JESUS SAID IN REVELATION 3 -10 .ALL YOU ARE DOING IS CAUSING STRIFE, DISCORD, HATRED AND DIVISION AMONG THE BODY OF CHRIST.
@ROMANWABLE The "death" wish is to be taken by the false christ when he appears.
We are to STAND during the hour of temptation (Mark 13:11 & Luke 21:13-15) and be delivered up before the councils of satan to BEAR witness against our adversary, allowing the Holy Spirit to speak thru us, so others might be saved.
There are 2 tribulations: satans, then Our Fathers on the 7th Trump.Those faithful and true have nothing to fear of either one.
@ROMANWABLE The dead in Christ rise first,before the Rapture.When do the Dead in Christ rise?Jesus says 4 times in John6 that the Resurrection occurs on the last day.See also Rev 20&1Cor15 for the timing of the Resurrection.Also,most pre-tribbers believe that there will be "Tribulation Saints".So yes,God will allow His children to endure the Last Days.Are the servants better than the master?God sent His own Son to die on a cross for us.should we expect better treatment than the Son of God?
temptation isnt rapture? lol. It means we call on Jesus when we are tempted. We got to go THROUGH the tribulation,, because he says " those that are alive and remain" you cant get around that one,,,
Check out MidnightWatcher's Blogspot and read through a few of the articles in the "Theology and Eschatology" section, particularly the "Not Appointed Unto Wrath" and "The Revelation of Jesus Christ and the Rapture of the Church" articles. I challenge anyone to refute them.
There is No biblical doctrine, that supports the "Darby/Irving" "pre-trib Rapture"
The words in1.Thes.5:9, "Not appointed unto wrath" Deals with the "wrath" of the one day Battle of Armageddon. (the sudden destruction that will come over the un-righteous in verse 1-3, But notice, that the "brethren" are also said to be Here on Earth, at that same "end-time", yet the difference is that they "are the children of Light" so that 'THAT SAME JUDGEMENT' will NOT OVERTAKE THEM. Blind Pre-tribbers!
@sorens70601 You're right, how could Paul speak of that day coming and for children of the Light not be overtaken on that day. Actually, I feel like all of chapter 5 in 2 Thess. confirms that christians are not gonna be present during the time of tribulation and that there is not gonna be a "rapture" per se, but at the 2nd advent there will be a gathering together of the sheep & the goats, sheep 4ever with the Lord & goats to destruction. Peace2Ya
I pray not that thou should take them out of the world, but that thou keep them from the evil.
God can protect us while we are on earth - Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were protected while in the furnace, and Daniel was kept safe from the Lions in their den. Even Noah, endured the flood under God's protection.
Pre-trib Rapture is a false doctrine. True faith is tested with fire and tribulation. Reflect on this. You may be unwittingly guilty of leading people astray
The Lord already prayed the Father for our protection through tribulation and trials-keep them from the evil in John 17:15. Therefore Rev 3:10 CANNOT be another promise of protection through tribulation, it is the promise when the promise of John17:15 is not effective anymore. Those teaching otherwise will be destroyed
"...these things, in which are some things [the day of the Lord] hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own DESTRUCTION" 2Pet 3:16
@mytreasure777 You use the word "therefore" and therein lies your error. You rely on your on understanding, colored by all the other Pre-trib preachers who appeal to your sense of "escaping God's wrath." Lean not on your own understanding, rather take counsel from the Bible itself. You say John 17:15 "cannot be effective" anymore? You mean the Bible contradicts itself, just to accommodate a false teaching? Christ's Disciples suffered tribulation unto death - we deserve no less. Be ready.
2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
Q: Where in the verse is the Pre-trib "Rapture" mentioned? Another "therefore"?
@MrBob6425 Define fire and tribulation, I have been through things in my mere 45 years that have tested me more than the threat of decaptitaion etc, your version of tribulation is different to others, No one becomes a believer to get raptured away because you cant become a believer in such a way, you must repent and be born again. Is the vicar who approves of divorce leading people astray, is the saint who rejects the baptism in the Spirit leading people astray etc etc?
One of these day you're going to have to stand before the Lord God Almighty and answer for what you're doing. You have NOT Christ NOR the Holy Spirit in you. Like I said, you definately will be going through the Great Tribulation Period. You will NOT take part of receiving any Crowns, Earthly Kingdom Assignments, the Coronation of the King of the Jews, the Wedding Ceremony or Supper of the Lamb. You will be running for your life saying: "I didn't believe this and now it's happening!"
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Your childish accusations I forgive you in the name of my Lord and my God Jesus Amen and if your alive so will you thats is why I have been warning you in the Spirit of meekness and there is nothing hid from the Lord Jesus and I hope your heart will not fail if your are still here and you see al these things come to pass
@JesusHoldMyHand1 1) that is you will go through the tribulation if you are alive on earth -Deu 4:30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, [even] in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and SHALT be obedient unto his voice; Jhn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye SHALL have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
@JesusHoldMyHand1 2)Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for WHEN tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the WORD, by and by he is offended. Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that WE must THROUGH much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
@JesusHoldMyHand1 3) Phl 1:28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. Phl 1:29 For unto you it is GIVEN in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, BUT also to suffer for HIS sake; Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if SO BE that we SUFFER with [him], that we may be also glorified together.
@JesusHoldMyHand1 4) 2Ti 2:12 If WE suffer, WE shall also reign with [him]: if WE deny [him], he also will deny us: 1Th 3:3 That no man should be moved by these AFFLICTIONS: for yourselves know that WE ARE APPOINTED thereunto Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake WE are killed all the day long; WE are ACCOUNTED as sheep for the slaughter.- I could Go on showing you the truth about the teachings of Christ Jesus and the apostles but I hope you will pick up your cross and follow Jesus
@thetruthimpart The dead are raised first, then we who are alive are "changed" in the twinkling of an eye. It will happen very fast, approx. 1/6 of a nanosecond. That's why no one on Earth sees us leave. When we go through the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, there will probably be massive wind storms, lightning, rain, flooding. Many people will think their loved ones were washed away in the rivers & oceans. Many of them will be, they'll find some of their bodies....but they won't find us
@JesusHoldMyHand1 1 )FIRST is always FIRST In order for the dead in Christ to rise (first) they all most die (first) and all are not martyred until (after the tribulation) and after the anti-christ and the beast wars with the saints).-.Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the (victory).over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and (they lived)... FIRST RESURRECTION then those that are alive are changed let no man deceive you ask the Lord Jesus for truth repent of ever believing a lie
@thetruthimpart Yes, those on the Thrones are the SAME Thrones of Revelation 4:1-5. Now, I will ask you, Was Lazarus the first one resurrected? How about Jesus Christ? Then there's the dead that the Apostles raised, were they the first? (Matthew 10:8); Peter raised Dorcas from the Dead, was she 1st? Acts 9:36-43 (especially v40-41) Those in Rev. 20:4 were killed during the Great Tribulation. They NEVER meet Jesus in the air. They are the 1st people resurrected at the end of the GT.
@JesusHoldMyHand1 1) No lazarus was not the first but a resurrection is not THE RESURECTION.- Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice, Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 1Cr 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his COMING.
@JesusHoldMyHand1 2)the resurrection of the Just at the FIRST RESURRECTION a FIRST IS ALWAYS FIRST 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God BRING with him. 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the WORD of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the COMING of the Lord shall not PREVENT them which are asleep. 1Cr 15:54 ..then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in VICTORY.
3) If God's people are still being killed then the VICTORY of LIFE has not come yet so when does it come -Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
4)1Cr 15:26 The LAST enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] DEATHLuk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. -(Paul wrote about those that (remain) shall be (changed) Jesus said unless he shortened those days no flesh should be saved (Mark 13:20) so if the Lord Jesus did not shorten those days there would be no (flesh alive) to change in a moment in the twinkling of an eye
@thetruthimpart For months I have answered your questions, but I'm beginning to think you are a troll. You REJECT every Scripture I give you; you REJECT God's Word. If those days of the Great Tribulation are not shortened (the number of days) everyone would be dead. Have you ever read Daniel 12:11-13? If you do then you might understand. There has to be people ALIVE at the end of the GT or no one could have families (babies) in Christ's Kingdom. Dead or Raptured people can NOT have babies.
@JesusHoldMyHand1 I am no troll and bless you what scripture you give your interpretation like they never met him in the air how do suppose they got on the sea of glass and I have read Daniel says same thing God's people my Lord Jesus' people will suffer until He comes Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; - continued
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days CAME, AND JUDGMENT was GIVEN to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. Rev 11:15 ¶ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and JUDGMENT was given unto them:...
Dan 12:1 ¶ And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that TIME thy people shall be DELIVERED, every one that shall be found written in the book. Dan 12:2 And many of them that SLEEP in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.
Dan 7:26 ¶ But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy [it] unto the end. Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom [is] an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be FINISHED, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
@thetruthimpart "....you will be able to understand the MYSTERY of Christ, which was not made known to men in other generations and NOW has been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets. This MYSTERY is that through the gospel the GENTILES are HEIRS together WITH Israel, members together of ONE body, and shares together in the PROMISE in Jesus Christ." Ephesians 3:2-6 The Angel then blows the 7th Trumpet of Judgment in Rev. 11:15-19
@JesusHoldMyHand1 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the WORD of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the COMING of the Lord shall not prevent them which are ASLEEP. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD in Christ shall rise FIRST: 1Th 4:17 THEN we which are alive [and] remain ...
@thetruthimpart Can you please stop posting 4,5,6 posts at a time? Just one, then wait for a reply. When you do so many at the same time, I can't answer them all. We've been over & over this about 100 times, so I really don't know what to tell you, but I do hope you lead a lot of people to Christ during the Great Tribulation. I'm sorry that I and all my Christian friends won't be down here to help you. We'll be gone for awhile, then come back WITH Jesus, so we'll see you guys then.
@JesusHoldMyHand1 No, I will not stop posting as long as people try to lead my brother's and sister's astray with false teachings whom my blessed Lord Jesus died for and no lie is of the truth. we warned over and over again about false teachers and teachings.Did You look for them,did you try the spirits, did you study out both pretrib and after tribulation to see why one is a lie the other the truth and above all did ask the Lord Jesus for the TRUTH? and did He give you the answers or did men?
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Eze 37:11 ¶ Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the WHOLE house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the JUST and unjust. Psa 1:5 THEREFORE the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. -the just resurrection is not in stages
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be TIME NO LONGER:
then, how does He leave to rapture people 7 yrs earlier?If the rapture is accompanied by a trumpet blast, an angel shout, and the Lord's glorious appearing, how is that secret? And why if He comes from heaven to the clouds does it not qualify as coming to earth? He's come all the way from heaven. Just because He doesn't touch down? Isn't that splitting hairs just a little much?Daniel 12 says the resurrection occurs after Jacob's trouble (tribulation).Doesn't the resurrection precede the rapture?
the tribulation saints?Does it come before the millennium?Where is that found in Scripture?If Christ has to return (as in 2nd Coming) then what is going on during the 7 yrs after the rapture?He doesn't pour out His wrath until He returns right?So if He doesn't return until the end, how is He pouring out His wrath during the 7 yrs?In Acts 3:21 says that heaven has to receive Christ (He has to stay there) until the restitution of all things. That is the end, right? If He can't leave heaven until
ungodly?I thought Christians weren't supposed to suffer God's wrath?If the Olivet Discourse is only directed at Jews does that mean that the New Testament is only for Jews not believers?I thought it was written FOR believers?If John represents the church in Rev.4 then doesn't he represent the church also at Matt.24? If he only represents Jews there shouldn't he only represent Jews in Rev.?How many resurrections are there?I have only found 2 in Scripture.Where is the verses for the 3rd one for
get saved when the Holy Spirit has been removed?Where is the verse that says that people who are Christians are denied the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?& if Christians aren't appointed to wrath why are there Christians during that time.Are they not enduring the wrath of God which He says they don't have to endure?Where does it say some Christians have to endure it but others don't? Also why if God's wrath is only for the wicked does He pour it out only on Christians in the 5th seal & not the
Since you seem to have a good grasp of the defense of pre-trib, maybe you can answer my questions, because in spite of asking pastors & posting to every pre-trib site I can find I can't get anyone to answer my questions. First could you give me the verses that say that the entire 7 years of Daniel's 70th week is the tribulation because I can't find it.I only find verses that say the tribulation starts after the abomination of desolation. #2 could you explain to me how multitudes of people can
-(I highlighted in parenthese if you cannot see this In order for the dead in Christ to rise (first) they all most die (first) and all are not martyred until (after the tribulation) and after the anti-christ and the beast wars with the saints).-Rev 20:4 (first) resurrection dead in christ (first)
@thetruthimpart You will notice that the "resurrected" dead of the Tribulation do "not" meet Christ in the air. They are never Raptured. "...I was in thye Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud VOICE like a TRUMPET which said:..." Rev. 1:10; "...and the VOICE I had first heard speaking to me like a TRUMPET said, "Come up Here..." Rev. 4:1 Jesus' voice is sounding like a Trumpet, same as in 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 Rev. 4:1-4 is definately the Rapture of the "called, chosen & faithful followers"
@JesusHoldMyHand1 john was for he recieved the Revelation of Jesus Christ which are to come just like he saw the 24 elders clothed in white on the Lord's day and just like saw the saints be persecuted for the Great name of Jesus and Rev. 1:9 ...companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ....
@JesusHoldMyHand1 i can read thank you plainly WE TOGETHER MEET THEM where and we do not stay hannging around in the air either we be with the Lord Jesus FOREVER 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
shall be caught up together with them in the (clouds), to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1Th 4:16 For (the Lord himself) shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the (trump) of God: and the (dead in Christ) shall rise (first:)1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the (last trump): for (the trumpet shall sound), and the (dead shall be raised) incorruptible, and we shall be changed -
(Paul wrote about those that (remain) shall be (changed) Jesus said unless he shortened those days no flesh should be saved so if the Lord Jesus did not shorten those days there would be no (flesh alive) to change in a moment in the twinkling of an eye- 1Cor. 15:52.) Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no (flesh should be saved): but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days 1Th 4:17 (Then) we which are (alive [and] remain)....
1Cr 15:20 ¶ But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. 1Cr 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed
Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
then after -Mat 24:29 ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: -Then appearing- Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
first when you see Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) second then - Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
You would think the desire to go through the tribulation would be as popular as the desire to jump into a pit filled with vipers and broken glass. As illogical as it may seem, there appears to be a large number of Christians that fully expect to get roughed up before Christ returns.
Many Christians argue strongly for the right to suffer persecution at the hands of the Antichrist and the one world government. "Because Jesus and His disciples suffered persecution, we should expect no better."
For any pre-tribulation believer, I would like to ask some questions 1) Do you have to be dead to be resurrected ? 2) When are dead in Christ raised ? 3) when do we appear before Jesus without sin ? 4) Would you please use three verses of the scriptures?
I think I'll trust my Lords words. Matt 24:21-30 . It is not by accident that He said it twice in ten verses. He even told us who. And it is all in context to His coming. Disagree with Jesus and you are both a false teacher and a liar.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee AS A THIEF, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
because most of them would miss the rapture, while most of the 'Philadelphia' will be raptured.
@Myhopeisinhim The Day of the Lord starts with Rapture of the FAITHFUL Bride of Christ. The Day of the Lord is NOT a 24 hour day.....it's a number of years. When Jesus says: "I am Coming soon and my reward is WITH Me....." Revelation 22:12-16 He is talking about the Rapture. "When the Chief Shepherd APPEARS, you WILL receive a Crown of Glory..." 1Peter 5:4 The 24 elders (12 Apostles & 12 Prophets of Israel) in Rev. 4:1-5 HAVE their Crowns...we get ours when they get theirs. MARANAHA
only as not to be decieved, its good to think and be prepared just in case its mid-trib, so ppl dont lose faith and falter because they didntd fly away. JUST BE PREPARED incase its mid trib people . as its written some will be delivered up, prison, beheaded, turned in by family, etc. all people in bible were saved THRU tribulation not FROM it. much luv...
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. The bible uses the word weeks not "HOUR" for the time of the Trib. and second Temptaion and Tribulation mean 2 different things! So this cannot be talking about the Great Tribulation, as you would like to wrest the scriptures to prove your false doctine, I will blow the pre-trib doctrine out of the water!!!
@kingjamesav I agree with you Rev3:10 does in no way prove any pre-tribe
because to say I will keep you from the hour of trail, in no way means the church has to be raptured out. God can keep you just as He kept Isreal in Egypt when He send those plagues.
And don't forget - Revelation 2: 21,22: And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed,( and them) that commit adultery with her into...........................GREAT TRIBULATION............EXCEPT THEY REPENT OF THEIR DEEDS..................The key word is (except they repent) Now if they repent of their wicked deeds they will not have to go into the (Great Tribulation). BAM!!! I love God's word.
The Bible is clear. The resurrection of the saints will occur at the last trump, not the first trump. Nobody knows when that will be. We may eventually know the season as the trumps become clearer, but not the day nor hour. The AntiChrist will kill most of us saints during the period of great tribulation. Christians have always faced Satan's wrath. But we will be lifted up before the HOUR of God's wrath.
In matt 24 Christ him self tells his followers of sings to look for before the end and his second coming the wars the earth quacks and the coming of the anti christ how are kept from the our of temptation ?
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.AMEN
You are saying saints are not raptured since the man of sin has not been revealed, but Paul says they won''t be raptured except (until) the man of sin is revealed and does all these certain things. How dare you try to make a play on words to deceive people. Paul is smart enough to write what he meant don't change the words II Thess 1:5 shows their persecution and tribulation is symbolic of what all saints will suffer, as saints will be glorified at the Lord's coming "in that day" notice 1:10
Rapture lies, here's the truth. II Thess. Chap.1&2:You believers are a symbol of suffering persecution and tribulation..its only right for God to repay “tribulation” to those that trouble you, so rest in peace with those of us that have passed on, when Jesus comes with mighty angels to repay the disobedient he will glorify his saints, but we beg you by his coming and our gathering together unto him, don't believe that day comes until that man of sin be revealed and is destroy at Christ coming.
well it says keep thee from hour of temptation really is stating i will keep you from the trials that will come upon the whole world. The wrath of the devil and of his antichrist is what he will keep thee from, never does it says out of the world. Every translation says "keep you from" rather then "out of"...Well in prayer Jesus prayed for us not to be takened out of the world, but to keep us from the evil one ( John 17:11-12)...check it out.
God is quite capable of keeping us from the "hour of temptation" without removing us from the planet. he kept the Israelites safe from the plagues of Egypt without removing them. No no no. Jesus said in Matthew 24, AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days, the angels will gather together the elect from the 4 winds of the earth. Also 2nd Peter 3 says that the day of the Lord is as a thief in the night., and the heavens will be burned and the elements will be melted with a great heat.
1. Noah was spared from the flood, but went thru it.
2. When God shut the door, no one else was saved.
3. Israel was safe from the plagues of Egypt, but went thru it.
4. Lot was safe and spared from the destruction of Sodom, but went thru it.
5. After 7 days around Jericho and after 7 trumpet blasts, they went into the promised land.
God's character is clearly revealed in the Old Covenant. We are SAFE, not SAVED from it by being wisked away secretly. I haven't seen that yet in the OC.
I'm afraid all I see here is your interpritation, as if anyone reasearches you will find the body of Theology disagrees with this views and interpritation of these verses.
I personally beleive that there is truth in the book at all levels, if you want to look at it finitely and general. And I fear there are many people today, who try to fit scripture around their doctrines.
Rev 3:10 means he will keep us out of temptation, not persecution or tribulation. He will keep us from falling away from the faith. He will keep us from sin.
Every single thing in the Bible, says we will go through tribulation and persecution.
go to white horse media . com and select broadcasts and then streaming video and the select the antichrist chronicles. this guy does a very good job of putting it all together. every time I try to post the link it gives me an error. Satan is working to keep you from hearing the truth buddy!
for the people that u r helping 2 mislead. Daniels 70th week is already over! It's illogical to assume that the 70th week is lopped off to be placed at the end of time. If the 70th week doesn't follow the 69th week then it wouldn't be the 70th week would it? we will all endure the tribulation! But ur probably a sunday, X-mas easter pagan. u know nothing about prophecy at all or the laws of God.
Dude! People like you are the problem with Christianity! You are just another part of the disinformation problem for millions of people. You sounded pretty good to someone who doesn't know the difference! But I do.
And you are dead wrong. Part of your problem is you assume you know it all!
One of my favorite quotes is 'Contentment prior to investigation is the only thing that will keep a man in every lasting Ignorance!'
2 Thess chapter 1 Paul speaking to the church the bride of christ jesus saying that "rest" from persecution, tribulation will occur when jesus christ comes in flaming fire to judge the ungodly, read the whole chapter how do you fit chapter 1 with a pre trib view if the church is not in heaven but on earth at the 2nd coming ?? not unless you believe in two brides for christ jesus ????
But of course there's a harpazo it happens at the 2nd coming in 1 Thess 4:15 the word "coming" in the greek refers to the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ connected to Matthew 24:29-31 the church will be on earth till Jesus Christ appears at the 2nd coming not before the tribulation but after, and the rapture will occur at the 2nd coming Matthew 24:29-31 not before that, there is no verse or chapter saying Jesus Christ will come before tribulation if you can find one please send it to me
this would make sence if the "hour of testing" was the tribulation. You should read Matthew 24 again. Immediatly after the tribulation of those days, then the elect are gathered.
to be honest I can't see what difference it makes whether there is a rapture or there isn't. If there is, then wooppee, those who believe in Jesus will be celebrating big time, if there isn't then we will be empowered by the Holy Spirit to be strong, and stand steadfast in our faith. why argue, let's get busy sharing with those who don't know the Lord, and then they too will be able to worship the God of the Living!
@thnkonthis yes lets keep buzy but at the same time we need to speak the truth, so many people are believing and buying into the lie of a pre trib rapture, if and when persecution comes for the church in america will be ready probably not because the majority of churchs believe in a secret rapture, but those who dont like me will probably be persecuted more because we preach the truth..........
If the church was here during the great tribulation, why would there be 2 witnesses inJerusalem and why would God raise up 144000 witnesses to go throughout the world?
So how far into the tribulation will we need to be for you to realize that this is a false teaching. You see I used to be in your camp on this but last fall I sat in on a bible study about end times and in a church that typically teaches a Pre-trib rapture to by the way. About 3 weeks into this Sunday school study I was reading the last 3 chapters of Daniel, when God clearly showed me that we are here. I mean one thing we are told is about no one will be able to buy or sell without the mark..
To use the words tereo ek "kept from" revelation 3:10 as a key pre-trib rapture doesn't work at all. Rev 3:10 Because you have (tereo) "kept" my word... means because you have protected my word. "ek" means to come out of something..."i will spew you out of my mouth" To be kept OUT of the tribulation must mean we are in it to begin with. He will keep us by ultimately taking us OUT of it.
@mytreasure777 So let us say the church is raptured before the tribulation.
1. Can you show me in scripture a 7 year tribulation?
2.Many say the rapture is in order to protect the church from this time and for God to deal exclusively with the Jews.
So if the church is gone who are the saints who come to christ during this time? They keep the testimony of Jesus and die in the Lord. Surely then they are part of the church? So the chucrh IS on earth during this time.
@shofaruk Brother the church is on earth please read 2 Thess chapter 1 there is only one body, one bride, one elect, there are not two one at the rapture and one at the 2nd coming that is heresy were is that found in scripture, Jesus Christ said my sheep, one fold, Paul as well spoke of one new man in Christ Jesus wither jew or gentile we are the new temple of God one body in Christ but please read 2 Thess chapter 1 the church is on earth till the 2nd coming
@mytreasure777 So if they are there in the tribulation why does the main body of the church have to be removed just as her greatest time of witness approaches.
Oh these are tribulation saints! But not the church. That is what I am told. So where does scripture say these are not the church?
John 17 uses the same Greek as revelation 3:10. There is no suggestion of leaving the planet but just the opposite.
Jesus told us in Mark 13 The words of the Messiah Himself concerning His return......."Behold I have told you everything before." Strange...He didn't mention a secret rapture before the tribulation....did He. No He said when He will return....as the signs of the day of the Lord are revealed after the tribulation Joel 2:31 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD
Its scares me to think just how much Satan has infiltrated the Church with this "pre-trib rapture" nonsense. WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE RAPTURED AT ANY MOMENT. The timing of the rapture is towards the end of the 7 year period that is wrongly called the "tribulation". ALL Christains will see the antichrist and will be PERSECUTED and many killed. Satan planted a false teaching within the body of Christ and people like Tim LaHaye, Hal Lindsey and the TBN network are guilty of spreading the LIE.
@Gunwacko It's so sad that you think Christ "HATES" His Church so much & wants His Judgments & Wrath on them because we Accepted Christ as our Lord & Savior. The Great Tribulation that starts with Jesus opening the 1st Seal starts HIS Judgments upon the whole, unbelieving, UNREPENTANT world. Hope you make it through that awful time, because I'll be in Heaven WITH Jesus Christ.
@JesusHoldMyHand1 It is truly sad to see just how ignorant most Christians are of the correct timing of the rapture....you have been indoctrinated by a false teaching. You mistake the wrath of Satan on Christians and Jews for the wrath of God, a common mistake if you don't read and understand the Greek language. When you simply believe what you have been told out of FEAR of persecution and don't research the TRUTH it will be YOU who is deceived at the coming of the false prophet.
@Gunwacko "Wrath of Satan"?? You're kidding, right?? Jesus Christ opens the 7 Seals, HIS Angels blow the 7 Trumpet Judgments, HIS Angels blow the 7 Bowl Judgments. His Judgments & Wrath are upon the Whole, Unbelieving, Unrepentant world. They HATE God, Curse at Him, because they KNOW the judgments are from HIM. Satan only can do what God ALLOWS him to do. Jesus uses satan for HIS BENEFIT, HIS PLAN & Christ ORDAINES EVERYTHING. He is in charge of the WHOLE GREAT TRIBULATION, not satan.
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Show me where it states that the seals are the wrath of God and I'll recant everything with an opoligy. :-) The wrath of GOD begins with the breaking of the 7th seal and after the silence in heaven for 30 minutes. You allgorize Scripture to come up with God's wrath beginning at the 1st seal.
@Gunwacko God's Judgments start with the 1st Seal, antichrist, then war, famine & death. I've already pm'd you. Antichrist is revealed when he "signs" "confirms" or "strengthens" a peace treaty or "covenant" with Israel and the "many" for 7 years. Daniel 9:27 When you see this happen (he comes as a man of peace & destroys many) you will know you missed the Rapture.
@shofaruk you mistranslate the Greek. Also you assume wrongly that the current Church is Philadelphia. You have it half right. We are taken out of something but your timing is wrong. We are taken out of the tribulation just before the wrath of God begins - at the 7th seal, after the 30 minute silence. Pre-trib is a false doctrine and most people only parrot it because they have not done a complete study from the original languages. Your translations of the Greek are an example.
@shofaruk Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. - First they must keep his word and not deny his name what all does Jesus say happens to those for his name sake ? - Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
Hi, it appears that you use "logic" over direct scriptural references. What about Matt 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that tell us when He is coming? You have to cut and past, twist and theorize to come up with that. Most ignore what is written and rebel by adding to the book as warned in Rev. Rapture and second coming aren't in Rev/Bible. Also, you use Rev 3:10 as if you know exactly what group of people Christ was referring to. How do you explain Rev 2:10, You will have tribulation ten days?
OK so I guess rapture happens only when it gets bad for American Christians? Cuz People are being burned tortured and put to death all over the world. Plus If Temptation is not tempting to do sin how can it be persecution. Living in America is Very very tempting so much sin to choose from. How do we build such a large doctrine on a vague scripture.
The Day of the Lord is the second coming when Christ comes with angels That day shall not come "EXCEPT" 1 Falling away 2 man of sin revealed 3 exalt himself above God 4. sits in the temple as God, remember that day can not come "except" these thing happen, here's more 5 many deceived 6 he does powers, signs, wonder 7 God send strong delusions Wicked consumed-day of the Lord saints caught up/Wicked consumed at coming same day of the Lord devil man trib on him as he kills Christians Rev.15:2
you can not prove that the following statement is not an accurate statement, and if it is accurate a pretrib. rapture is impossible:
The day of the Lord, I Thess. 5:2, is the "same day (hour)" Christians meet the Lord in the air, I Thess. 4:17 "AND" the Wicked man of sin consumed, II Thess. 2:8-dragon/devil bound Rev 20:2 and his/the 2nd world kingdom (Rev.13:11) imposed the mark, kills saints, and received seven plagues "tribulation" Rev.15 is destroyed at Christ coming,
I knew what I had been taught, so I started there. My study of premillennialism led me to learn of John Nelson Darby and his influence on the rapture popularity. The way the rapture was presented in scripture by the preachers in the churches I had been to made it seem like the rapture was scriptural and passed down from the disciples and even Jesus Christ himself... I was VERY surprised that John Nelson Darby was popular in 1830!
If your pre, your free, if your post, your toast. The rapture of the church is bibical, the evidence of a pre trib catching away is overwhelming. We are not apointed to wrath. Don't call God a liar about the rapture, it will happen. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Rev 3:10 2Thessalonians 2:7,8. Where is the Blessed hope found in Titus, if we have to go through the trib. God saved eunich lot noah eligah, what about the 2 witness in the trib. I DON'T EVEN EAT POST CEREAL. know the truth people.
which scripture says that Paul had the dream about gentiles? was it not Peter that went to cornelius house? what abou the ETHOPIAN EUNICH, was it Paul that Baptized him?
ACTS 10 (read it) Peter had the dream on the roof of a house about ministering to the gentiles.
Paul gave the teachings of one Body (gentile and Jew) One tree, not two,
the letter to the ROMAN (gentiles) was Romans 10:12 (no difference) there is only one flock.Romans 11:19-21 God did not spare the natural branches nor us.
Your comment about Jesus speaking to the Jews all of Matthew, Mark, John, and Luke was the Jew. In fact it wasn't until the dream in ACTs the first message was actually for the Gentiles. You cannot take and chose. Do you tithe, well that was also for the Jew and the borders of israel. that is hypocritical for you to pick and chose what scripture matter. I have studied this through and through. He causeth ALL not just jew to receive a mark. Matthew 24 is talking about Israel, so the elect are jew
I am showing you your own contradiction about the Bible. When he said two will be in the field, HE was talking to Jews also Every single title and jot in that Passage was for Jews. So do not take the rapture and claim it when He was talking to JEWS
"do you understand mysteries" obviously not, you are confused and don't know the word and cause contradict and do not divide. so either Christ is talking about saints (period) the church or saints were first jews not gentiles
hector771000 in the Bible it says that God is NOT a respector of persons jew or gentile. Also Christ died for EVERYONE so the rapture will include EVERYONE who is in Christ (the church).
@MrPsalm141 I am undecided but I think post most likely to be true. But either pre or post, we will be with Jesus. I am already free by the blood of Jesus, but satan is toast.
@shinethelight18 thx for the email. Well there is light and darkness, truth and Lie, right and wrong. Do you see the mystery pattern. Well there is only one way. My arguement that it is a salvation issue is because if you lead people to believe there is a pre-trib rapture, when they findout and have not prepared then whose head will it be on. Ezekiel 33:1-5 (watchmen not warning).
@hector771000 When you make it a salvation issue, it becomes legalism. I know there are lot of loving christians who believes in pre trib, and I know alot of christians who believes in post trib. We are all still one member of the body of christ. Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God
YOU MISUNDERSTAND: I MOST CERTAINLY DO BELIEVE IN THE PRE- TRIBULATION RAPTURE. I DO APOLOGIZE FOR THIS MISUNDERSTANDING ON MY PART. SEE YOU IN THE CLOUDS WITH OUR LORD JESUS. ( BROTHER ).
ROMANWABLE 2 weeks ago
Rev 4:1 is the Rapture. The tribulation begins in Rev 6. All believers are gone.
rratcliff11 2 weeks ago
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Great deception! Jesus Himself said, "Immediately AFTER the Tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven..and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER His elect.."
shiphrahhopeful 3 weeks ago
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Holding to a Pre-Tribulation rapture notion is drastically weakening the Church worldwide. The Church should be preparing for spiritual battle against the most evil forces arrayed by hell. Instead, the Church is lukewarm and languishing with a false hope. This is all orchestrated by demonic powers in order to result in a limp army of believers,who will not endure til the end. In this age of laxity among Christians, it does not take much on the part of the dark powers to accomplish this goal.
shiphrahhopeful 3 weeks ago
RESPONSE TO LOOK WHAT MANY GODLY PEOPLE WENT THROUGH: WE ALL GO THROUGH TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS. BUT, THIS IS THE NORMAL CHRISTIAN LIFE. HOWEVER, THE GREAT TRIBULATION IS ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE, SUCH AS NEVER BEFORE WAS NOR EVER AGAIN SHALL BE. MATT.24-21.
BESIDES YOUR CONTRIDICTING SCRIPTURES(NO MAN KNOWS THE DAY NOR HOUR) MATT.24-36. BUT, YOU DO KNOW: BECAUSE ANTICHRIST RULES FOR 42 MONTHS. REV.13-5. THEN CHIST RETURNS AND DESTROYS HIM. REV.19-20. SIMPLY COUNT WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE.
ROMANWABLE 1 month ago
YOU"VE REJECTED EVERY SCRIPTURE GIVEN TO YOU. YOU MOST CERTAINLY WILL GO THROUGH THE GREAT TRIBULATION.YOUR IMPLYING THAT ONLY THE SUPER AND STRONG CHRISTIANS WILL MAKE IT. SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST. OBVIOUSLY THE WEAK,ELDERLY,SICK HANDICAPPED,CHILDREN,BABIES,NURSING MOMS WON'T MAKE IT. YOU'RE TRYING TO TAKE AWAY OUR BLESSED HOPE.
SINCE WHEN DID GOD POUR OUT HIS WRATH ON THE RIGHTEOUS??
WHY IS ANGEL PREACHING THE GOSPEL? REV.13-7? IT'S BECAUSE WE'RE NOT HERE.
ROMANWABLE 1 month ago
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rratcliff11 2 weeks ago
YES I WOULD. HOWEVER, WE DO KNOW THE TIMES AND SEASONS(1THESS.5-1)VERSE 4- BUT THAT DAY WILL NOT OVERTAKE( US) AS A THIEF. VERSE 3-SUDDEN DESTRUCTION COMES AND (THEY) SHALL NOT ESCAPE( NOT REFERING TO US) VERSE 9-FOR GOD HAS NOT APPOINTED(US) TO WRATH.THE GREAT TRIBULATION IS GOD'S WRATH POURED OUT ON THE UNGODLY (NOT CHRISTIANS) REV.3-10 JESUS WILL KEEP US( FROM) THE HOUR OF TEMPTATION. LUKE 21-36 WATCH AND PRAY THAT YOU MAY BE WORTHY TO (ESCAPE) ALL THESE THINGS. MAY ALL BELIEVERS ESCAPE.
ROMANWABLE 1 month ago
@ROMANWABLE
Are those who become believers during the tribulation subject to God's wrath? We have to stop misusing the "not appointed to wrath" verse in an attempt to prove pre-trib it has nothing to do with that.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
JESUS SAID: AS IN THE DAYS OF LOT; THEY ATE,THEY DRANK,(NO FAMINE) THEY BOUGHT AND SOLD,(YOU CAN'T BUY OR SELL DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION) THEY PLANTED AND BUILDED.(PROSPERITY DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION??? NOT HARDLY) . THIS IS CLEARLY REFERING TO THE RAPTURE AND NOT GOING THROUGH THE GREAT TRIBULATION SUCH AS NEVER WAS SO TERRIBLE NOR EVER AGAIN SHALL BE. MATT.24-21. WE ARE THE( BRIDE) OF CHRIST. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN (NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR HOUR)??
ROMANWABLE 1 month ago
@ROMANWABLE
Would you associate the term "thief in the night" with no man knowing the day nor the hour since no one knows when a thief will come?
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY QUESTION. WHY WOULD JESUS PUT HIS BRIDE THROUGH THE GREAT TRIBULATION??? WHAT DO YOU DO WITH PSALMS 91 WHICH PROMISES DELIVERANCE AND SAYS THERE SHALL NO EVIL BEFALL YOU???
ROMANWABLE 1 month ago
@ROMANWABLE
Look at what shadrach, meshach and abendago went through, or Daniel. All things happen for his glory. Miracles and mighty things can happen and many souls are often reached through persecution through seeing the faith of those who walk unwaveringly to their death for Christ.
His glory is shown in persecution, in tribulation, in suffering. It's a refiners fire. Look at what Jesus went through...was it needless? wasn't it for the glory of God?
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
Jesus said we will suffer as he suffered. That the servant is not greater than his master, if he suffered we will too. We're told not to fear him who can destroy the body, but fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
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@ROMANWABLE "YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY QUESTION. WHY WOULD JESUS PUT HIS BRIDE THROUGH THE GREAT TRIBULATION???"
My input....Because she is unclean in her current state, the great whore of Babylon.
His bride are the remnants of the 12 tribes of Israel, who God has reserved, and who God divorced in Jer. 3:8.....but she shall be purified and made again into a virgin bride.
RememberPaulRevere 1 month ago
oops typo: to believe in a pre-trib rapture....
Its not about a death wish, I'd love it if pre trib were true, but I have to go by what I see in the scriptures even if my desires would be to go before. When things get difficult our instinct is to run to avoid trials and tribulations but we were not promised to escape them but strength to get through.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@romanwable
common sense...who wouldn't want to escape beforehand? i mean the will to survive is one of the strongest desires that we have. Its contrary to our nature to walk into death.
To believe is pre-trib is a dream come true so to speak, but having said that don't you see a problem? Out of nearly all the doctrines out there that has to be the largest tickle the ear doctrine. Its what our nature wants to hear.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
WHAT IS IT WITH YOU POST TRIBULATION ADHERENTS?? DO YOU HAVE SOME KIND OF SECRET DEATH WISH?? EVEN COMMON SENSE DEMANDS A PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE. WE ARE THE (BRIDE) OF CHRIST. WHAT MAN AMONG YOU WOULD PUT HIS BRIDE THROUGH A TIME OF UNPRESIDENTED HORROR SUCH AS THE WORLD HAS NEVER KNOWN. EVEN THE UNGODLY DON'T DO THAT. READ ISAIAH 57 - 1,2 AND WHAT JESUS SAID IN REVELATION 3 -10 .ALL YOU ARE DOING IS CAUSING STRIFE, DISCORD, HATRED AND DIVISION AMONG THE BODY OF CHRIST.
ROMANWABLE 2 months ago
@ROMANWABLE The "death" wish is to be taken by the false christ when he appears.
We are to STAND during the hour of temptation (Mark 13:11 & Luke 21:13-15) and be delivered up before the councils of satan to BEAR witness against our adversary, allowing the Holy Spirit to speak thru us, so others might be saved.
There are 2 tribulations: satans, then Our Fathers on the 7th Trump.Those faithful and true have nothing to fear of either one.
RememberPaulRevere 1 month ago
@ROMANWABLE The dead in Christ rise first,before the Rapture.When do the Dead in Christ rise?Jesus says 4 times in John6 that the Resurrection occurs on the last day.See also Rev 20&1Cor15 for the timing of the Resurrection.Also,most pre-tribbers believe that there will be "Tribulation Saints".So yes,God will allow His children to endure the Last Days.Are the servants better than the master?God sent His own Son to die on a cross for us.should we expect better treatment than the Son of God?
samuelamos1 1 month ago
temptation isnt rapture? lol. It means we call on Jesus when we are tempted. We got to go THROUGH the tribulation,, because he says " those that are alive and remain" you cant get around that one,,,
douglasdolly 2 months ago
Fear, obedience and faith in God, are three great attributes, without them, there is no proper discernment of the Holy Bible.
There is ample evidence in the Old and New Testaments, ensuring the irrefutable possibility of a pre tribulation rapture.
paulojose1955 2 months ago
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Check out MidnightWatcher's Blogspot and read through a few of the articles in the "Theology and Eschatology" section, particularly the "Not Appointed Unto Wrath" and "The Revelation of Jesus Christ and the Rapture of the Church" articles. I challenge anyone to refute them.
MidnightWatcher322 3 months ago
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BLOOD MOONS 2014 2015 check that out gr8 info and SPREAD THE WORD OF THIS INFO ANY WAY U CAN THINK OF
acerv36 4 months ago
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BLOOD MOONS 2014 2015 check that out gr8 info and SPREAD THE WORD OF THIS INFO ANY WAY U CAN THINK OF
acerv36 4 months ago
There is No biblical doctrine, that supports the "Darby/Irving" "pre-trib Rapture"
The words in1.Thes.5:9, "Not appointed unto wrath" Deals with the "wrath" of the one day Battle of Armageddon. (the sudden destruction that will come over the un-righteous in verse 1-3, But notice, that the "brethren" are also said to be Here on Earth, at that same "end-time", yet the difference is that they "are the children of Light" so that 'THAT SAME JUDGEMENT' will NOT OVERTAKE THEM. Blind Pre-tribbers!
sorens70601 5 months ago
@sorens70601 You're right, how could Paul speak of that day coming and for children of the Light not be overtaken on that day. Actually, I feel like all of chapter 5 in 2 Thess. confirms that christians are not gonna be present during the time of tribulation and that there is not gonna be a "rapture" per se, but at the 2nd advent there will be a gathering together of the sheep & the goats, sheep 4ever with the Lord & goats to destruction. Peace2Ya
JimmyCarol100 2 months ago
@sorens70601 Sorry , I meant 1st Thessolonians 5. Peace2Ya
JimmyCarol100 2 months ago
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MrBob6425 6 months ago
In Joh 17:15 Jesus prays:
I pray not that thou should take them out of the world, but that thou keep them from the evil.
God can protect us while we are on earth - Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were protected while in the furnace, and Daniel was kept safe from the Lions in their den. Even Noah, endured the flood under God's protection.
Pre-trib Rapture is a false doctrine. True faith is tested with fire and tribulation. Reflect on this. You may be unwittingly guilty of leading people astray
MrBob6425 6 months ago
@MrBob6425
The Lord already prayed the Father for our protection through tribulation and trials-keep them from the evil in John 17:15. Therefore Rev 3:10 CANNOT be another promise of protection through tribulation, it is the promise when the promise of John17:15 is not effective anymore. Those teaching otherwise will be destroyed
"...these things, in which are some things [the day of the Lord] hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own DESTRUCTION" 2Pet 3:16
mytreasure777 6 months ago
@mytreasure777 You use the word "therefore" and therein lies your error. You rely on your on understanding, colored by all the other Pre-trib preachers who appeal to your sense of "escaping God's wrath." Lean not on your own understanding, rather take counsel from the Bible itself. You say John 17:15 "cannot be effective" anymore? You mean the Bible contradicts itself, just to accommodate a false teaching? Christ's Disciples suffered tribulation unto death - we deserve no less. Be ready.
MrBob6425 6 months ago
Respond to this video...
2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
Q: Where in the verse is the Pre-trib "Rapture" mentioned? Another "therefore"?
MrBob6425 6 months ago
@MrBob6425 Define fire and tribulation, I have been through things in my mere 45 years that have tested me more than the threat of decaptitaion etc, your version of tribulation is different to others, No one becomes a believer to get raptured away because you cant become a believer in such a way, you must repent and be born again. Is the vicar who approves of divorce leading people astray, is the saint who rejects the baptism in the Spirit leading people astray etc etc?
tommy3lions 1 month ago
One of these day you're going to have to stand before the Lord God Almighty and answer for what you're doing. You have NOT Christ NOR the Holy Spirit in you. Like I said, you definately will be going through the Great Tribulation Period. You will NOT take part of receiving any Crowns, Earthly Kingdom Assignments, the Coronation of the King of the Jews, the Wedding Ceremony or Supper of the Lamb. You will be running for your life saying: "I didn't believe this and now it's happening!"
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Your childish accusations I forgive you in the name of my Lord and my God Jesus Amen and if your alive so will you thats is why I have been warning you in the Spirit of meekness and there is nothing hid from the Lord Jesus and I hope your heart will not fail if your are still here and you see al these things come to pass
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 1) that is you will go through the tribulation if you are alive on earth -Deu 4:30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, [even] in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and SHALT be obedient unto his voice; Jhn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye SHALL have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 2)Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for WHEN tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the WORD, by and by he is offended. Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that WE must THROUGH much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 3) Phl 1:28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. Phl 1:29 For unto you it is GIVEN in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, BUT also to suffer for HIS sake; Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if SO BE that we SUFFER with [him], that we may be also glorified together.
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 4) 2Ti 2:12 If WE suffer, WE shall also reign with [him]: if WE deny [him], he also will deny us: 1Th 3:3 That no man should be moved by these AFFLICTIONS: for yourselves know that WE ARE APPOINTED thereunto Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake WE are killed all the day long; WE are ACCOUNTED as sheep for the slaughter.- I could Go on showing you the truth about the teachings of Christ Jesus and the apostles but I hope you will pick up your cross and follow Jesus
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
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Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 9 months ago
so what comes first the resurrection or being caught up?
thetruthimpart 10 months ago
@thetruthimpart The dead are raised first, then we who are alive are "changed" in the twinkling of an eye. It will happen very fast, approx. 1/6 of a nanosecond. That's why no one on Earth sees us leave. When we go through the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, there will probably be massive wind storms, lightning, rain, flooding. Many people will think their loved ones were washed away in the rivers & oceans. Many of them will be, they'll find some of their bodies....but they won't find us
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 1 )FIRST is always FIRST In order for the dead in Christ to rise (first) they all most die (first) and all are not martyred until (after the tribulation) and after the anti-christ and the beast wars with the saints).-.Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the (victory).over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and (they lived)... FIRST RESURRECTION then those that are alive are changed let no man deceive you ask the Lord Jesus for truth repent of ever believing a lie
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
@thetruthimpart Yes, those on the Thrones are the SAME Thrones of Revelation 4:1-5. Now, I will ask you, Was Lazarus the first one resurrected? How about Jesus Christ? Then there's the dead that the Apostles raised, were they the first? (Matthew 10:8); Peter raised Dorcas from the Dead, was she 1st? Acts 9:36-43 (especially v40-41) Those in Rev. 20:4 were killed during the Great Tribulation. They NEVER meet Jesus in the air. They are the 1st people resurrected at the end of the GT.
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 1) No lazarus was not the first but a resurrection is not THE RESURECTION.- Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice, Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 1Cr 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his COMING.
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 2)the resurrection of the Just at the FIRST RESURRECTION a FIRST IS ALWAYS FIRST 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God BRING with him. 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the WORD of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the COMING of the Lord shall not PREVENT them which are asleep. 1Cr 15:54 ..then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in VICTORY.
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
3) If God's people are still being killed then the VICTORY of LIFE has not come yet so when does it come -Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
4)1Cr 15:26 The LAST enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] DEATHLuk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. -(Paul wrote about those that (remain) shall be (changed) Jesus said unless he shortened those days no flesh should be saved (Mark 13:20) so if the Lord Jesus did not shorten those days there would be no (flesh alive) to change in a moment in the twinkling of an eye
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
@thetruthimpart For months I have answered your questions, but I'm beginning to think you are a troll. You REJECT every Scripture I give you; you REJECT God's Word. If those days of the Great Tribulation are not shortened (the number of days) everyone would be dead. Have you ever read Daniel 12:11-13? If you do then you might understand. There has to be people ALIVE at the end of the GT or no one could have families (babies) in Christ's Kingdom. Dead or Raptured people can NOT have babies.
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 I am no troll and bless you what scripture you give your interpretation like they never met him in the air how do suppose they got on the sea of glass and I have read Daniel says same thing God's people my Lord Jesus' people will suffer until He comes Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; - continued
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days CAME, AND JUDGMENT was GIVEN to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. Rev 11:15 ¶ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and JUDGMENT was given unto them:...
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
Dan 12:1 ¶ And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that TIME thy people shall be DELIVERED, every one that shall be found written in the book. Dan 12:2 And many of them that SLEEP in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
Dan 7:26 ¶ But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy [it] unto the end. Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom [is] an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be FINISHED, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
@thetruthimpart "....you will be able to understand the MYSTERY of Christ, which was not made known to men in other generations and NOW has been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets. This MYSTERY is that through the gospel the GENTILES are HEIRS together WITH Israel, members together of ONE body, and shares together in the PROMISE in Jesus Christ." Ephesians 3:2-6 The Angel then blows the 7th Trumpet of Judgment in Rev. 11:15-19
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the WORD of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the COMING of the Lord shall not prevent them which are ASLEEP. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD in Christ shall rise FIRST: 1Th 4:17 THEN we which are alive [and] remain ...
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
@thetruthimpart Can you please stop posting 4,5,6 posts at a time? Just one, then wait for a reply. When you do so many at the same time, I can't answer them all. We've been over & over this about 100 times, so I really don't know what to tell you, but I do hope you lead a lot of people to Christ during the Great Tribulation. I'm sorry that I and all my Christian friends won't be down here to help you. We'll be gone for awhile, then come back WITH Jesus, so we'll see you guys then.
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
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thetruthimpart 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 No, I will not stop posting as long as people try to lead my brother's and sister's astray with false teachings whom my blessed Lord Jesus died for and no lie is of the truth. we warned over and over again about false teachers and teachings.Did You look for them,did you try the spirits, did you study out both pretrib and after tribulation to see why one is a lie the other the truth and above all did ask the Lord Jesus for the TRUTH? and did He give you the answers or did men?
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Eze 37:11 ¶ Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the WHOLE house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the JUST and unjust. Psa 1:5 THEREFORE the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. -the just resurrection is not in stages
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be TIME NO LONGER:
thetruthimpart 6 months ago
then, how does He leave to rapture people 7 yrs earlier?If the rapture is accompanied by a trumpet blast, an angel shout, and the Lord's glorious appearing, how is that secret? And why if He comes from heaven to the clouds does it not qualify as coming to earth? He's come all the way from heaven. Just because He doesn't touch down? Isn't that splitting hairs just a little much?Daniel 12 says the resurrection occurs after Jacob's trouble (tribulation).Doesn't the resurrection precede the rapture?
conniemaew 10 months ago
the tribulation saints?Does it come before the millennium?Where is that found in Scripture?If Christ has to return (as in 2nd Coming) then what is going on during the 7 yrs after the rapture?He doesn't pour out His wrath until He returns right?So if He doesn't return until the end, how is He pouring out His wrath during the 7 yrs?In Acts 3:21 says that heaven has to receive Christ (He has to stay there) until the restitution of all things. That is the end, right? If He can't leave heaven until
conniemaew 10 months ago
ungodly?I thought Christians weren't supposed to suffer God's wrath?If the Olivet Discourse is only directed at Jews does that mean that the New Testament is only for Jews not believers?I thought it was written FOR believers?If John represents the church in Rev.4 then doesn't he represent the church also at Matt.24? If he only represents Jews there shouldn't he only represent Jews in Rev.?How many resurrections are there?I have only found 2 in Scripture.Where is the verses for the 3rd one for
conniemaew 10 months ago
get saved when the Holy Spirit has been removed?Where is the verse that says that people who are Christians are denied the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?& if Christians aren't appointed to wrath why are there Christians during that time.Are they not enduring the wrath of God which He says they don't have to endure?Where does it say some Christians have to endure it but others don't? Also why if God's wrath is only for the wicked does He pour it out only on Christians in the 5th seal & not the
conniemaew 10 months ago
Since you seem to have a good grasp of the defense of pre-trib, maybe you can answer my questions, because in spite of asking pastors & posting to every pre-trib site I can find I can't get anyone to answer my questions. First could you give me the verses that say that the entire 7 years of Daniel's 70th week is the tribulation because I can't find it.I only find verses that say the tribulation starts after the abomination of desolation. #2 could you explain to me how multitudes of people can
conniemaew 10 months ago
-(I highlighted in parenthese if you cannot see this In order for the dead in Christ to rise (first) they all most die (first) and all are not martyred until (after the tribulation) and after the anti-christ and the beast wars with the saints).-Rev 20:4 (first) resurrection dead in christ (first)
thetruthimpart 11 months ago
@thetruthimpart You will notice that the "resurrected" dead of the Tribulation do "not" meet Christ in the air. They are never Raptured. "...I was in thye Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud VOICE like a TRUMPET which said:..." Rev. 1:10; "...and the VOICE I had first heard speaking to me like a TRUMPET said, "Come up Here..." Rev. 4:1 Jesus' voice is sounding like a Trumpet, same as in 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 Rev. 4:1-4 is definately the Rapture of the "called, chosen & faithful followers"
JesusHoldMyHand1 10 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 john was for he recieved the Revelation of Jesus Christ which are to come just like he saw the 24 elders clothed in white on the Lord's day and just like saw the saints be persecuted for the Great name of Jesus and Rev. 1:9 ...companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ....
thetruthimpart 10 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 i can read thank you plainly WE TOGETHER MEET THEM where and we do not stay hannging around in the air either we be with the Lord Jesus FOREVER 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
thetruthimpart 10 months ago
@thetruthimpart We go to the Father's House (which is in Heaven) as Jesus said in John 14:1-5
JesusHoldMyHand1 10 months ago
shall be caught up together with them in the (clouds), to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1Th 4:16 For (the Lord himself) shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the (trump) of God: and the (dead in Christ) shall rise (first:)1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the (last trump): for (the trumpet shall sound), and the (dead shall be raised) incorruptible, and we shall be changed -
thetruthimpart 11 months ago
(Paul wrote about those that (remain) shall be (changed) Jesus said unless he shortened those days no flesh should be saved so if the Lord Jesus did not shorten those days there would be no (flesh alive) to change in a moment in the twinkling of an eye- 1Cor. 15:52.) Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no (flesh should be saved): but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days 1Th 4:17 (Then) we which are (alive [and] remain)....
thetruthimpart 11 months ago
1Cr 15:20 ¶ But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. 1Cr 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed
thetruthimpart 11 months ago
Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
thetruthimpart 11 months ago
then after -Mat 24:29 ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: -Then appearing- Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
thetruthimpart 11 months ago
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first when you see Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) second then - Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
thetruthimpart 11 months ago
You would think the desire to go through the tribulation would be as popular as the desire to jump into a pit filled with vipers and broken glass. As illogical as it may seem, there appears to be a large number of Christians that fully expect to get roughed up before Christ returns.
Many Christians argue strongly for the right to suffer persecution at the hands of the Antichrist and the one world government. "Because Jesus and His disciples suffered persecution, we should expect no better."
Bhatch2007 11 months ago
@Bhatch2007 Only an idiot wants to suffer tribulation however we cannot disregard scripture because it is unpaletable.
shofaruk 10 months ago
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@shofaruk ....your point being?
Bhatch2007 10 months ago
For any pre-tribulation believer, I would like to ask some questions 1) Do you have to be dead to be resurrected ? 2) When are dead in Christ raised ? 3) when do we appear before Jesus without sin ? 4) Would you please use three verses of the scriptures?
thetruthimpart 1 year ago
I think I'll trust my Lords words. Matt 24:21-30 . It is not by accident that He said it twice in ten verses. He even told us who. And it is all in context to His coming. Disagree with Jesus and you are both a false teacher and a liar.
goldmakers 1 year ago
@eddienickels1
use in conjunction with other scriptures for what keep out of the hour means, 1Thess 4, Rev 4-5.
The same is truth with other doctrines like justification:
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
so we have to consider all passages to draw a conclusion.
mytreasure777 1 year ago
@eddienickels1
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee AS A THIEF, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
because most of them would miss the rapture, while most of the 'Philadelphia' will be raptured.
mytreasure777 1 year ago
@mytreasure777
Did you know that the bible declares that the day of the Lord at the end of the tribulation will come upon the world like a thief in the night?
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim The Day of the Lord starts with Rapture of the FAITHFUL Bride of Christ. The Day of the Lord is NOT a 24 hour day.....it's a number of years. When Jesus says: "I am Coming soon and my reward is WITH Me....." Revelation 22:12-16 He is talking about the Rapture. "When the Chief Shepherd APPEARS, you WILL receive a Crown of Glory..." 1Peter 5:4 The 24 elders (12 Apostles & 12 Prophets of Israel) in Rev. 4:1-5 HAVE their Crowns...we get ours when they get theirs. MARANAHA
JesusHoldMyHand1 6 months ago
look at the last slide... those who receive mark of the beast will not lose salvation??
but accdg to Bible rev 14:9-10 and rev 20:4...... if you receive the mark either in forehead or hand you will receive wrath of God..
pmich888 1 year ago
only as not to be decieved, its good to think and be prepared just in case its mid-trib, so ppl dont lose faith and falter because they didntd fly away. JUST BE PREPARED incase its mid trib people . as its written some will be delivered up, prison, beheaded, turned in by family, etc. all people in bible were saved THRU tribulation not FROM it. much luv...
zackrowe1 1 year ago
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. The bible uses the word weeks not "HOUR" for the time of the Trib. and second Temptaion and Tribulation mean 2 different things! So this cannot be talking about the Great Tribulation, as you would like to wrest the scriptures to prove your false doctine, I will blow the pre-trib doctrine out of the water!!!
kingjamesav 1 year ago
@kingjamesav I agree with you Rev3:10 does in no way prove any pre-tribe
because to say I will keep you from the hour of trail, in no way means the church has to be raptured out. God can keep you just as He kept Isreal in Egypt when He send those plagues.
TheDeepsea79 1 year ago
And don't forget - Revelation 2: 21,22: And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed,( and them) that commit adultery with her into...........................GREAT TRIBULATION............EXCEPT THEY REPENT OF THEIR DEEDS..................The key word is (except they repent) Now if they repent of their wicked deeds they will not have to go into the (Great Tribulation). BAM!!! I love God's word.
sprinkle888 1 year ago
Gal 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
Gal 1:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
tonguesofgrace 1 year ago
The Bible is clear. The resurrection of the saints will occur at the last trump, not the first trump. Nobody knows when that will be. We may eventually know the season as the trumps become clearer, but not the day nor hour. The AntiChrist will kill most of us saints during the period of great tribulation. Christians have always faced Satan's wrath. But we will be lifted up before the HOUR of God's wrath.
RobertMOdell 1 year ago
In matt 24 Christ him self tells his followers of sings to look for before the end and his second coming the wars the earth quacks and the coming of the anti christ how are kept from the our of temptation ?
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.AMEN
tonguesofgrace 1 year ago
You are saying saints are not raptured since the man of sin has not been revealed, but Paul says they won''t be raptured except (until) the man of sin is revealed and does all these certain things. How dare you try to make a play on words to deceive people. Paul is smart enough to write what he meant don't change the words II Thess 1:5 shows their persecution and tribulation is symbolic of what all saints will suffer, as saints will be glorified at the Lord's coming "in that day" notice 1:10
JoBernard12oxen 1 year ago
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Rapture lies, here's the truth. II Thess. Chap.1&2:You believers are a symbol of suffering persecution and tribulation..its only right for God to repay “tribulation” to those that trouble you, so rest in peace with those of us that have passed on, when Jesus comes with mighty angels to repay the disobedient he will glorify his saints, but we beg you by his coming and our gathering together unto him, don't believe that day comes until that man of sin be revealed and is destroy at Christ coming.
JoBernard12oxen 1 year ago
im sorry its John 17:15 i believe...
“I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil”
XonezIOIzenoX 1 year ago
well it says keep thee from hour of temptation really is stating i will keep you from the trials that will come upon the whole world. The wrath of the devil and of his antichrist is what he will keep thee from, never does it says out of the world. Every translation says "keep you from" rather then "out of"...Well in prayer Jesus prayed for us not to be takened out of the world, but to keep us from the evil one ( John 17:11-12)...check it out.
XonezIOIzenoX 1 year ago
what is the name of the song?
XonezIOIzenoX 1 year ago
Thank you.I have been second guessing my pre-trib foundation.
dlgooge 1 year ago
God is quite capable of keeping us from the "hour of temptation" without removing us from the planet. he kept the Israelites safe from the plagues of Egypt without removing them. No no no. Jesus said in Matthew 24, AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days, the angels will gather together the elect from the 4 winds of the earth. Also 2nd Peter 3 says that the day of the Lord is as a thief in the night., and the heavens will be burned and the elements will be melted with a great heat.
Musicman81Indy 1 year ago
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Musicman81Indy 1 year ago
1. Noah was spared from the flood, but went thru it.
2. When God shut the door, no one else was saved.
3. Israel was safe from the plagues of Egypt, but went thru it.
4. Lot was safe and spared from the destruction of Sodom, but went thru it.
5. After 7 days around Jericho and after 7 trumpet blasts, they went into the promised land.
God's character is clearly revealed in the Old Covenant. We are SAFE, not SAVED from it by being wisked away secretly. I haven't seen that yet in the OC.
kevinseanob 1 year ago
I'm afraid all I see here is your interpritation, as if anyone reasearches you will find the body of Theology disagrees with this views and interpritation of these verses.
I personally beleive that there is truth in the book at all levels, if you want to look at it finitely and general. And I fear there are many people today, who try to fit scripture around their doctrines.
sorry
Amarx00 1 year ago
So mytreasure777 are you saying you beleive that Jesus will return twice by this video?
Amarx00 1 year ago
Rev 3:10 means he will keep us out of temptation, not persecution or tribulation. He will keep us from falling away from the faith. He will keep us from sin.
Every single thing in the Bible, says we will go through tribulation and persecution.
There is no pre trib rapture.
Hooverdarnit 1 year ago
go to white horse media . com and select broadcasts and then streaming video and the select the antichrist chronicles. this guy does a very good job of putting it all together. every time I try to post the link it gives me an error. Satan is working to keep you from hearing the truth buddy!
poopsy713 1 year ago
dude
poopsy713 1 year ago
for the people that u r helping 2 mislead. Daniels 70th week is already over! It's illogical to assume that the 70th week is lopped off to be placed at the end of time. If the 70th week doesn't follow the 69th week then it wouldn't be the 70th week would it? we will all endure the tribulation! But ur probably a sunday, X-mas easter pagan. u know nothing about prophecy at all or the laws of God.
poopsy713 1 year ago
Dude! People like you are the problem with Christianity! You are just another part of the disinformation problem for millions of people. You sounded pretty good to someone who doesn't know the difference! But I do.
And you are dead wrong. Part of your problem is you assume you know it all!
One of my favorite quotes is 'Contentment prior to investigation is the only thing that will keep a man in every lasting Ignorance!'
And that's where you are at!
go read Matthew chapter 24!
poopsy713 1 year ago
2 Thess chapter 1 Paul speaking to the church the bride of christ jesus saying that "rest" from persecution, tribulation will occur when jesus christ comes in flaming fire to judge the ungodly, read the whole chapter how do you fit chapter 1 with a pre trib view if the church is not in heaven but on earth at the 2nd coming ?? not unless you believe in two brides for christ jesus ????
xena1973 1 year ago
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But of course there's a harpazo it happens at the 2nd coming in 1 Thess 4:15 the word "coming" in the greek refers to the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ connected to Matthew 24:29-31 the church will be on earth till Jesus Christ appears at the 2nd coming not before the tribulation but after, and the rapture will occur at the 2nd coming Matthew 24:29-31 not before that, there is no verse or chapter saying Jesus Christ will come before tribulation if you can find one please send it to me
xena1973 1 year ago
nice video
andrewprofit 1 year ago
this would make sence if the "hour of testing" was the tribulation. You should read Matthew 24 again. Immediatly after the tribulation of those days, then the elect are gathered.
mattsather2 1 year ago
to be honest I can't see what difference it makes whether there is a rapture or there isn't. If there is, then wooppee, those who believe in Jesus will be celebrating big time, if there isn't then we will be empowered by the Holy Spirit to be strong, and stand steadfast in our faith. why argue, let's get busy sharing with those who don't know the Lord, and then they too will be able to worship the God of the Living!
thnkonthis 1 year ago
@thnkonthis yes lets keep buzy but at the same time we need to speak the truth, so many people are believing and buying into the lie of a pre trib rapture, if and when persecution comes for the church in america will be ready probably not because the majority of churchs believe in a secret rapture, but those who dont like me will probably be persecuted more because we preach the truth..........
xena1973 1 year ago
If the church was here during the great tribulation, why would there be 2 witnesses inJerusalem and why would God raise up 144000 witnesses to go throughout the world?
Daphdong1 1 year ago
So how far into the tribulation will we need to be for you to realize that this is a false teaching. You see I used to be in your camp on this but last fall I sat in on a bible study about end times and in a church that typically teaches a Pre-trib rapture to by the way. About 3 weeks into this Sunday school study I was reading the last 3 chapters of Daniel, when God clearly showed me that we are here. I mean one thing we are told is about no one will be able to buy or sell without the mark..
MrRevelationtv 1 year ago
To use the words tereo ek "kept from" revelation 3:10 as a key pre-trib rapture doesn't work at all. Rev 3:10 Because you have (tereo) "kept" my word... means because you have protected my word. "ek" means to come out of something..."i will spew you out of my mouth" To be kept OUT of the tribulation must mean we are in it to begin with. He will keep us by ultimately taking us OUT of it.
shofaruk 1 year ago
@shofaruk
keep out of the HOUR of tribulation, it means not even one second in the time of tribulation.
mytreasure777 1 year ago
@mytreasure777 So let us say the church is raptured before the tribulation.
1. Can you show me in scripture a 7 year tribulation?
2.Many say the rapture is in order to protect the church from this time and for God to deal exclusively with the Jews.
So if the church is gone who are the saints who come to christ during this time? They keep the testimony of Jesus and die in the Lord. Surely then they are part of the church? So the chucrh IS on earth during this time.
shofaruk 1 year ago
@shofaruk Brother the church is on earth please read 2 Thess chapter 1 there is only one body, one bride, one elect, there are not two one at the rapture and one at the 2nd coming that is heresy were is that found in scripture, Jesus Christ said my sheep, one fold, Paul as well spoke of one new man in Christ Jesus wither jew or gentile we are the new temple of God one body in Christ but please read 2 Thess chapter 1 the church is on earth till the 2nd coming
xena1973 1 year ago
@xena1973 Exactly my point. God bless you.
shofaruk 1 year ago
@mytreasure777 So if they are there in the tribulation why does the main body of the church have to be removed just as her greatest time of witness approaches.
Oh these are tribulation saints! But not the church. That is what I am told. So where does scripture say these are not the church?
John 17 uses the same Greek as revelation 3:10. There is no suggestion of leaving the planet but just the opposite.
shofaruk 1 year ago
@mytreasure777 Finally dear brother or sister,
Jesus told us in Mark 13 The words of the Messiah Himself concerning His return......."Behold I have told you everything before." Strange...He didn't mention a secret rapture before the tribulation....did He. No He said when He will return....as the signs of the day of the Lord are revealed after the tribulation Joel 2:31 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD
shofaruk 1 year ago
@mytreasure777 the word in this passage is TEMPTATION NOT TRIBULATION.
MrRevelationtv 1 year ago
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xena1973 1 year ago
Its scares me to think just how much Satan has infiltrated the Church with this "pre-trib rapture" nonsense. WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE RAPTURED AT ANY MOMENT. The timing of the rapture is towards the end of the 7 year period that is wrongly called the "tribulation". ALL Christains will see the antichrist and will be PERSECUTED and many killed. Satan planted a false teaching within the body of Christ and people like Tim LaHaye, Hal Lindsey and the TBN network are guilty of spreading the LIE.
Gunwacko 10 months ago
@Gunwacko It's so sad that you think Christ "HATES" His Church so much & wants His Judgments & Wrath on them because we Accepted Christ as our Lord & Savior. The Great Tribulation that starts with Jesus opening the 1st Seal starts HIS Judgments upon the whole, unbelieving, UNREPENTANT world. Hope you make it through that awful time, because I'll be in Heaven WITH Jesus Christ.
JesusHoldMyHand1 10 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 It is truly sad to see just how ignorant most Christians are of the correct timing of the rapture....you have been indoctrinated by a false teaching. You mistake the wrath of Satan on Christians and Jews for the wrath of God, a common mistake if you don't read and understand the Greek language. When you simply believe what you have been told out of FEAR of persecution and don't research the TRUTH it will be YOU who is deceived at the coming of the false prophet.
Gunwacko 10 months ago
@Gunwacko "Wrath of Satan"?? You're kidding, right?? Jesus Christ opens the 7 Seals, HIS Angels blow the 7 Trumpet Judgments, HIS Angels blow the 7 Bowl Judgments. His Judgments & Wrath are upon the Whole, Unbelieving, Unrepentant world. They HATE God, Curse at Him, because they KNOW the judgments are from HIM. Satan only can do what God ALLOWS him to do. Jesus uses satan for HIS BENEFIT, HIS PLAN & Christ ORDAINES EVERYTHING. He is in charge of the WHOLE GREAT TRIBULATION, not satan.
JesusHoldMyHand1 10 months ago
@JesusHoldMyHand1 Show me where it states that the seals are the wrath of God and I'll recant everything with an opoligy. :-) The wrath of GOD begins with the breaking of the 7th seal and after the silence in heaven for 30 minutes. You allgorize Scripture to come up with God's wrath beginning at the 1st seal.
Gunwacko 10 months ago
@Gunwacko God's Judgments start with the 1st Seal, antichrist, then war, famine & death. I've already pm'd you. Antichrist is revealed when he "signs" "confirms" or "strengthens" a peace treaty or "covenant" with Israel and the "many" for 7 years. Daniel 9:27 When you see this happen (he comes as a man of peace & destroys many) you will know you missed the Rapture.
JesusHoldMyHand1 10 months ago
@shofaruk you mistranslate the Greek. Also you assume wrongly that the current Church is Philadelphia. You have it half right. We are taken out of something but your timing is wrong. We are taken out of the tribulation just before the wrath of God begins - at the 7th seal, after the 30 minute silence. Pre-trib is a false doctrine and most people only parrot it because they have not done a complete study from the original languages. Your translations of the Greek are an example.
Gunwacko 10 months ago
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@shofaruk Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. - First they must keep his word and not deny his name what all does Jesus say happens to those for his name sake ? - Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
thetruthimpart 10 months ago
Hi, it appears that you use "logic" over direct scriptural references. What about Matt 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that tell us when He is coming? You have to cut and past, twist and theorize to come up with that. Most ignore what is written and rebel by adding to the book as warned in Rev. Rapture and second coming aren't in Rev/Bible. Also, you use Rev 3:10 as if you know exactly what group of people Christ was referring to. How do you explain Rev 2:10, You will have tribulation ten days?
raptureornot 1 year ago
OK so I guess rapture happens only when it gets bad for American Christians? Cuz People are being burned tortured and put to death all over the world. Plus If Temptation is not tempting to do sin how can it be persecution. Living in America is Very very tempting so much sin to choose from. How do we build such a large doctrine on a vague scripture.
shaunlcolvin 1 year ago
Pre trib = False
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
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JoBernard12oxen 1 year ago
you can not prove that the following statement is not an accurate statement, and if it is accurate a pretrib. rapture is impossible:
The day of the Lord, I Thess. 5:2, is the "same day (hour)" Christians meet the Lord in the air, I Thess. 4:17 "AND" the Wicked man of sin consumed, II Thess. 2:8-dragon/devil bound Rev 20:2 and his/the 2nd world kingdom (Rev.13:11) imposed the mark, kills saints, and received seven plagues "tribulation" Rev.15 is destroyed at Christ coming,
refutes pretrib.
JoBernard12oxen 1 year ago
I knew what I had been taught, so I started there. My study of premillennialism led me to learn of John Nelson Darby and his influence on the rapture popularity. The way the rapture was presented in scripture by the preachers in the churches I had been to made it seem like the rapture was scriptural and passed down from the disciples and even Jesus Christ himself... I was VERY surprised that John Nelson Darby was popular in 1830!
acquiescere9 1 year ago
Another false prophet is Cyrus Scofield...Ithink him and Darby were good friends!
thyman01 1 year ago
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Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
acquiescere9 1 year ago
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
acquiescere9 1 year ago
If your pre, your free, if your post, your toast. The rapture of the church is bibical, the evidence of a pre trib catching away is overwhelming. We are not apointed to wrath. Don't call God a liar about the rapture, it will happen. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Rev 3:10 2Thessalonians 2:7,8. Where is the Blessed hope found in Titus, if we have to go through the trib. God saved eunich lot noah eligah, what about the 2 witness in the trib. I DON'T EVEN EAT POST CEREAL. know the truth people.
MrPsalm141 2 years ago 2
@MrPsalm141
Preach IT ! awesome, just awesome!
mrfellowship 2 years ago
which scripture says that Paul had the dream about gentiles? was it not Peter that went to cornelius house? what abou the ETHOPIAN EUNICH, was it Paul that Baptized him?
ACTS 10 (read it) Peter had the dream on the roof of a house about ministering to the gentiles.
Paul gave the teachings of one Body (gentile and Jew) One tree, not two,
the letter to the ROMAN (gentiles) was Romans 10:12 (no difference) there is only one flock.Romans 11:19-21 God did not spare the natural branches nor us.
hector771000 2 years ago
Your comment about Jesus speaking to the Jews all of Matthew, Mark, John, and Luke was the Jew. In fact it wasn't until the dream in ACTs the first message was actually for the Gentiles. You cannot take and chose. Do you tithe, well that was also for the Jew and the borders of israel. that is hypocritical for you to pick and chose what scripture matter. I have studied this through and through. He causeth ALL not just jew to receive a mark. Matthew 24 is talking about Israel, so the elect are jew
hector771000 2 years ago
I am showing you your own contradiction about the Bible. When he said two will be in the field, HE was talking to Jews also Every single title and jot in that Passage was for Jews. So do not take the rapture and claim it when He was talking to JEWS
"do you understand mysteries" obviously not, you are confused and don't know the word and cause contradict and do not divide. so either Christ is talking about saints (period) the church or saints were first jews not gentiles
hector771000 2 years ago
hector771000 in the Bible it says that God is NOT a respector of persons jew or gentile. Also Christ died for EVERYONE so the rapture will include EVERYONE who is in Christ (the church).
ddlyrfl 2 years ago 2
agree
hector771000 2 years ago
so the proof is ONE BODY!
study the truth.
hector771000 2 years ago
@MrPsalm141 I am undecided but I think post most likely to be true. But either pre or post, we will be with Jesus. I am already free by the blood of Jesus, but satan is toast.
shinethelight18 1 year ago
@shinethelight18 thx for the email. Well there is light and darkness, truth and Lie, right and wrong. Do you see the mystery pattern. Well there is only one way. My arguement that it is a salvation issue is because if you lead people to believe there is a pre-trib rapture, when they findout and have not prepared then whose head will it be on. Ezekiel 33:1-5 (watchmen not warning).
hector771000 1 year ago
@hector771000 When you make it a salvation issue, it becomes legalism. I know there are lot of loving christians who believes in pre trib, and I know alot of christians who believes in post trib. We are all still one member of the body of christ. Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God
shinethelight18 1 year ago 2