Keating the float

[Rafdaganga]

THIS Labor government was good. All subsequent ones were shocking.

[richspur2004]

This was the single most brilliant and important economic reform in Australian history.

[ruddsadudd]

brian burke should never have been jailed - he just liked to wick the wid that's all

[Timeshift99]

Labor's economic reform record dumps all over the Liberal Party's. We ended up with 17 years of continuous economic growth, far more than 11. Note how other countries also had troubles during the 80s/90s recession regardless of political pursuation (see Thatcher) but of course with such little ammo for Liberals to use, they'll take anything regardless of the truth.

[liber8me]

you do realise that the reforms that labor made were neo-liberal ie. right wing economic reforms? you do also realise that labor achieved these reforms during its first few years in office and was utterly useless after that? especially during the 90 recession

[Timeshift99]

yes i do realise that - labor taking the economic mantle from the liberals has made them far more electable than the libs. 15 years of hawke/keating/rudd to 11 years of sole howard. the liberals have lost all reason for existance since labor abandoned economic socialism. and it hurts so bad to the liberals, it's great! and fyi, it wasn't just oz or countries of centre-left govts that suffered in the recession - remember your hero thatcher? 1 million jobless! so much for hard-right thatcherism!

[liber8me]

well really rudd is looking more like a whitlam than a hawke/keating which is going to shoot their economic credibility in the foot again. its great? you mean its great that economically people have no choice at an election? well its great for me because both parties suit me ideologically but its a bit of a pain in the ass for all the left.

[Timeshift99]

the economy under rudd is far different than under whitlam thanks to the hawke/keating years. the stimpac was endorsed by practically anyone who matters, and it was to cushion the recession, not a reform of the economy, not to mention our debt is still very small, and won't get anywhere near the libs rediculous claims. don't forget that throughout history wealth has been created by debt. and if people have no economic choice at the election, is that an admission of labor's fantastic eco cred? :D

[liber8me]

you realise the government spent 9% of GDP on the stimulus packages don't you? and do you know what treasury analysed we got out of it? 1.5% extra growth. that is a disgrace. rudd wasted billions of dollars - and yes, billions were wasted, taking money away from the private sector, so that rudd could say that australia did not experience a technical recession. tell me - if your boss said he'd take 9% of your pay packet and give you a 1.5% raise would you do it?

[Timeshift99]

nobody can know how much worse our economy would have been without the stimpac. but more or less any credible group including those that normally lean Liberal endorsed the timing and the size of the package. The proposed Liberal package was near to the same size as Labor's, and governments around the world from both sidesdid the same. And let's not forget that the tax bonus was only $12b. You believe whatever Liberal fairytales you want, just don't be shocked when you keep losing elections.

[liber8me]

I'm not listening to any liberal propaganda or fairytales - i am looking at the facts from the treasury - and it shows rudd spent 9% of GDP - billions wasted - all for a miserable 1.5% growth. the other governments went into the recession billions in debt and were screwed - after 11 years of liberals we had the strongest economy in the world and keating fought moves to cut spending every inch of the way

[Timeshift99]

And how do you know we wouldn't have been in deep recession without the stimpac? You're acting as if 0% is the minimum number when referring to 1.5% growth. We're more or less the only western country not to go in to recession. You cannot say what would have happened. Libs had a near-price stimpac, everyone who mattered endorsed it, stimpacs occurred around the world. the oz economy was courtesy of the hawke/keating reforms, all howard did was a GST and a mining boom, and rode global prosperity.

[liber8me]

well actually in the first few years of the howard government they completely reformed taxation in this country, gst was just a part of that, set inflationary targets - something keating never had the balls to do and balanced the budget. these were all thigns HOWARD did and were the reason why the australian economy weathered the GFC so well. keating was basically useless after the 80s - after the recession they lost all stomach for reform.

[liber8me]

treasury said that we only gained 1.5% growth from the stimulus packages. you saw what happened in the other countries -the stimulus packages did not prevent a recession - because consumer confidence was shot and their banks were not properly regulated. it was costello who established an national regulatory organisation for financial regulations - the main reason none of our major financial institutions collapsed.

[Timeshift99]

the budget was full of mining boom tax revenue and middle-class handouts. the economy wasn't doing well until the mining boom kicked in and flooded treasury coffers. the 80s/90s recession was not unique to australia, it was global. thatcher's 1m unemployed. The bottom line is that the Hawke/Keating economic reforms far outweigh those in importance and number than the Howard govt, and the Liberal stimpac was not much less the Labor govt's, and the stimpac was endorsed by basically all groups.

[liber8me]

the mining boom only accounted for 5% of GDP and only kicked in in 2005 - when howards term was almost over.

the 80s recession was given a huge kick job by the record high interest rates that saw thousands lose their homes.

keating was utterly useless in the 90s, every reform they made was done early on in their term and after that they had run out of ideas.

the stimpac was a massive waste of money and did not prevent any nation going into a deeper recession.

[Timeshift99]

Yet the Liberal stimpac was not much less? Turnbull had to admit, and these are rough figures from memory, that under the Liberal calculations (which are absolute rubbish) and with the Liberal stimpac, that we'd only be in $270b debt rather than $300b? Turnbull jammed up when he was exposed on that! Labor is the party of the centre and the party of reform, and will continue to be elected more often than the Liberals under a Hawke/Keating/Rudd centrist regime!

[liber8me]

i am not taking a party political view - i disagree with the government holding everyones hand every step of the way. i think the government should have offered more incentives to employers like getting rid of payroll tax.

labor is the party of the centre? no, labor remains the party with the loony left exerting influence in it and at best is centre-left. when you look at their attitude to IR laws - especially with what gillard is working on at the moment you'll see they really are the left.

[Timeshift99]

did you not say "you mean its great that economically people have no choice at an election?"

get your stories straight! :D

[liber8me]

no it was just a sarcastic statement in regards to your statement that labor have somehow found the "centre"

labor have always been very left on IR laws - they hate employers and wonder why after a few years of labor they're too scared of them to employ anyone else.

[Timeshift99]

rubbish. how did the economy manage to grow for 17 straight years when howard was only in power for 11? labor is the best friend of small and big business.

[liber8me]

how did the economy continue to grow for 17 straight years when howard was in power for 11?

well if you'd seen how high unemployment and how much economic growth had slowed during the last recession you would know that it would have been a miracle for the economy under labor to do anything but grow.

it was the worst recession in decades, and it took years to recover.

[jeremija1]

im no expert but ive heard that john howard saved the aussie economy.. i take it that he did so with this advantage. but i wonder what rudd will contribute to australia

[neddy05]

Howard actually benefitted from many of the reforms that Hawke and Keating put together during the 80s and early 90s. What he hasn't done is invested back into the country to make sure these good times go on. Rudd has made a committment to increasing productivity. Read Ozonomics for a good understanding of who has done what to the Australian economy without the spin put on it from the news media

[qin02]

yeah johnny benifited alot from the reforms done by hawk and keating, this is again concurred by greenspan the ex us reserve chairman in his book.

all johnny and coestello had to do after that is to keep the yearly budget in surplus, which they did by selling off key aussie assets and as well as introducing the GST

[volantare]

The single most important economic decision in Australia's recent history. Complete credit to Hawke and Keating. Keating should have taken Treasury's opinion should have been a warning for Keating that they were imperfect (and we remained in a recession for 6 months longer because of it). Like Keating said.. It lacked guile.