This is in essence merely an epicyclic (sun, planets, ring) with two in puts and one output, so you need two power sources for the input, one can be constant speed and the other variable speed. It is nothing new and it is in the Prius in principle.
as a transmission this wouldnt work well. this is just a differential. it uses Stright cut gears wich will be noisy as hell under load. Reverse gear in a manual is usualy a stright cut gear wich is why they Wine so loudy in some cars. the rest in a car are helical cut to make them quiet and pull into each other for solid mating under tourqe. in this demo you have one input at wide open throttle constantly wile a second input changes rpm to match ratio. this is a terriblly ineffitiant setup.
@oneyeviewer It has plastic parts so he has an excuse for not putting a load on the output. The exact dimensions of the gears aren't critical -- I'm supposed to believe that he worked on this for years, and just can't find or afford a few metal gears?
So the electric motor would need to have the same power as the engine would, otherwise when any load was applied the electric motor would be twisted backwards and burn out, I know a way you could make this so much simpler....
@vanepico They explained why it wouldn't have to be equal output in the control side as the input side. It just has to spin the rear sun gear at the same speed. That's it.
@arkanadyne Why does the control motor just have to spin a gear at the same speed? Because the inventor said it just had to spin a gear at the same speed? Are you always this credulous?
@obscureanimations Because friction is not an issue. It's called a control motor because it controls the output. The only restriction on the system is from the output. The control has nothing to do with that. I can't really list an example of a similar design because this is an original design (that I know of anyway). But if you think about it, I'm sure it will make sense.
this is a smart principle...but for this system this mean i need 2 engines to work to geter or 1 ICE and one STRONG electric motor which saps power from the ICE...i mean what if the car is going up hill and the electric motor has to keep up with the ring gear proportion, this will definitely has an affect .... very smart idea but i dont think its efficient....time will tell
Bad engineering. Basically he is bleeding off engine speed by spinning the sun gear in the opposite direction. As output speed comes closer to input speed, you would have to apply an more reactant torque to the variable speed(ed) sun gear to hold it in place. He does this with two separate motors applying torque. 50% of the input power would be needed for this transmission to work at top speed. Newton for the win...
lol, this is not a transmission. It's just like the open differential on a car but stupid. Imagine if you spun one tire ("input") in one direction and your friend ("extra motor") spun the other at the same speed but in the opposite direction, the driveshaft ("output") would not spin as if in neutral. Now if your friend stopped his tire youd get "drive" and "reverse" if he spun it faster than you in the opposite direction. But no change in torque, so no transmission u sneaky plumber!
Wouldn't a 1:1 ratio require the control shaft gear to spin at the same speed as the motor... which would imply that it's motor needs to be powerful enough to keep up with it... which implies that you need the main engine which spins the main shaft to be the same power as the motor that regulates the input shafts speed to keep a 1:1 ratio. This would imply that if this transmission was bolted to a 450 horsepower engine, there'd need to be ANOTHER 450 horsepower engine to drive the input shaft.
Pardon me sir, I respect your work, and I have a question. If we have to use electric motor in order to control gear smoothly why don't we use electric motor just to drive the whole Car, for example? OK, This device can gradually control the output speed, does output force gets adjusted as well as in "Conventional" gearbox? Going further - if we use Differential drive and apply electric motor to one of the wheels won't another wheel get speed adjusted? I am curious, no challenge. Thank you.
From my limited understanding, a variable speed electrical motor (what you have described) would defintiely be more suitable. However, this brings in complications of fuel/energy storage etc.
@chrislewispam Exactly. Same story with this gearbox. Extra electric motor will eat lot of power and box doesn't have to be that complicated. Use simple Differential, it will do same job. And I think this design uses 2 electric motors, for both shafts. As much as I understood.
@DragonToko Why not consider a motorgenerator? A traditional ICE drives a generator (alternator anyone?) which provides electrical power to a motor which will then drive the wheels. This electrical motor can be variable speed.
@chrislewispam The advantage of this type of gear I can see is that it allows to vary speed in very low revs (Rev.M1-Rev.M2), but again, Differential could do the same. Application of such device could be in some speed control devices where saving energy in not an issue, but not in cars.
this is not new the aircraft industry have been using this for years. we use it to keep the generator turning at the correct speed for all engine speeds have a look at an aircraft constant speed drive unit CSDU
A more advanced system with special provisions for "high torque forward", provision for automatically choosing any gear ratio from zero to infinity, using planetary gears controlled by fl;uid pressure, has been already patented in U S and India before about 3 years, namely "infinitely variable gear transmission with microprocessor control ( IVGT), U S Patent No.7632205; An improvement of this patent has also been filed recently in USPTO and India.
A better planetary gear system has already been patented in India and U S, years back. "Infinitely variable gear transmission with microprocessor control"
U S Patent No. 7632205. A further improvement has also been filed in India and U S. The patents have also been filed for hybrid drives, as further improvement of the system in India. varunnyku@hotmail.com
I say that this isn't merely a case of a misguided inventor: this is fraud. The engineering study on his own web site says it doesn't work. And he doesn't demonstrate it under load: he intentionally put plastic output gears on it as an excuse for this -- what, he just couldn't afford to buy a few more metal gears?
@BorisQueue it needs two motors . one to drive it, one two stall the shaft. Why would you think it does not work under load? Only at low rpm viable though.
@heavyweather Sorry, don't really want to talk about it. Just read the Engineering Analysis on the guy's own web site, where it says "This is not an infinitely-variable transmission".
@BorisQueue How does it not work, it made sense to me. I saw one of these at a case dealer, it had a hand crank and an electric motor. I could stop the output, speed it up, and reverse it. Why wouldn't this work (THEY USE IT ON FUCKING TRACTORS, WOULD YOU CALL THAT A LOAD).
@aForkandaSpoon What is the "IT" they use "ON FUCKING TRACTORS"? The Durnin D-Drive transmission? I doubt it. Just read section 5.5 of the lab report on the D-Drive site. You're falling victim to a simple fallacy: that because the "control gear" is small, it obviously doesn't see an equal load.
@BorisQueue It was plastic, and had gears (including planetary ones) obviously it was similar to this. It would be simple to get this heading the right direction though. Basically to achieve full output speed you use an electric motor breaking system which, can infinitely variate braking power by applying load and charging batteries, then applying power in a special manor to completely stop the control shaft. Going in reverse would just be easier to achieve by reversing input.
@BorisQueue So basically from what I see is that you apply variable breaking to the control shaft to variate the speed of the output shaft. Apply no breaking for neutral. Apply turning power for reverse, or reverse input, or engaging a small CVT designed to have high torque over the control shaft (you don't go fast in reverse anyway) and you have a great system. You are being to negative about this, simply put, it is infinitely variable, stronger, and more efficient than a CVT
@BorisQueue So what that it is impossible to make a CVT with fixed gear ratios. I have realized this device could be much simpler by using something like a differential instead of the elaborate complexity it is. But it still seems like a functionable idea. Why wouldn't it work under load?
@aForkandaSpoon If it's impossible to make a CVT/IVT with fixed gear rations, then this isn't a CVT/IVT, and shouldn't be claimed as one. Why wouldn't it work under load? Because, as covered in the Lab Report, just because one gear is smaller and called a Control Input doesn't make it so: you need just as big a motor on each input shaft to achieve "neutral". This is not a magic "torque transistor" that amplifies the Control Input and protects it from seeing a load.
@BorisQueue So do you mean it is impossible to make a *VT that outputs fixed gear ratios, or uses them. The control shaft shouldn't have to do what you hare talking about, in just needs stopping power equivalent to the original input. That can easily be done with a large powerful break. The motor included on it just has to be strong enough to turn the shaft to turn the shaft.
@aForkandaSpoon To be more specific, it is impossible to create a CVT/IVT that employs *nothing* but fixed gears. You say that the motor on the control shaft just has to be strong enough to turn the shaft. Why do you say that? Because Durnin says that in the video. He is wrong, and it is awfully difficult to believe it's an honest mistake.
@BorisQueue What? I did not say that the control shaft needs the same moving power, it needs the same breaking/stopping power, which is easy. If you wan't to go in reverse, you still can, you just give a weak motor a large amount of torque over the whole system. This would allow reverse, and would go slow, but tractors don't really need fast reverse, nor do cars. I sat down with my little car right now and using the diff I applied breaking to one wheel and variated it infinitely.
@aForkandaSpoon I don't know what you're talking about. In the D-Drive, there is a motor attached to the alleged "Control Shaft", not a brake. Then again, you keep implying that the Control Shaft just needs a "weak motor". Why? Why do you say it needs a "weak motor"? Because Durnin said it?
And you sat down with your little car that has a D-Drive transmission? I'm sure that's very cute and all, but if you can't spell "brake", I can't really continue replying to you.
@BorisQueue I can spell brake, I just don't feel like writing an English paper for a youtube comment. My car doesn't have a d-drive, but it does have a differential which is very similar to this when placed under load. You have input and two outputs, one of which is used to control the other. After watching this enough times it has become a little less than what I once thought. It is over complicated, but with a little work it would work.
@BorisQueue As for the little motor, I use that term because people complain about the use of a CVT from the original output hooked to the control. "little" because you don't need fast or especially powerful reverse.
@BorisQueue Some more direct info on what I am talking about can be noted here: 6:24 as you can see the control/lower shaft is not turning and the output its. This is full output mode, and is controlled by a fluid brake (hydraulic pump with limitable valve. As you open the valve the output. Both shafts could also be control shafts and then for reverse the other shafts brake would be applied.
@aForkandaSpoon FINAL CONCLUSION. Ok, so after spending about an hour off and on, and then the past 45 minutes researching this I have reached this conclusion.
This device requires three equivalently powered drives to operate.
This device output has the power of only one of the input drives, not all three.
This device would work under a load with the proper usage of mechanics.
A IVT can be created using fixed gears. (Diff. Method)
I am gonna make my own IVT and share it with the world.
How is this different from the Toyota Prius' transmission? This is a planetary CVT transmission just like in the Toyota Prius... I can't see how this is NOT copying the one in the Prius.
does it really works ? doesn't it work by actually subtracting power ? which is not a transmission is supposed to do. I mean the product Rotation Speed * Torque has to stay constant, i am not sure it is the case here
the concept is good, however application has limits, for exemple a car will always need some kind of clutch,otherwise if you start braking the gearbox would have to adjust with some insane precision to let the engine slowly come back to iddle while matching the wheel speed with it. Aircraft market is not guaranteed since aircraft engine/turbine are made to work without any electric system.
@sjwimmel This is not that awesome really. It's not a real CVT, it's just a 2 input transmission. Having 1 motor stay constant and then varying another to change your speed? You could just vary the 1 motor to change your speed lol.
@sleddog123 True, but in some applications (such as turbine engines) keeping the engine at optimal speed while varying the output is extremely useful.
@EurekaThis Good luck to you. I'll try to remember this interaction in a year or so to see if you have progressed or if not if you'll share it with me then. :)
@sleddog123 Thanks for the well wishes. As you probably know, you can build a better mouse trap but the world doesn't automatically beat a pathway to your door. It takes perseverance, luck, good marketing and the right people involved. This NEW method develops infinitely variable outputs that are constant and continuous and are "mechanically connected"(can NOT slip) and can be easily varied under heavy load (e.g.18 wheelers). NO stepping, ratchets, cams, gears, teeth, pins or fluids. EUREKA !!
@EurekaThis Isn't that something else entirely? A new way to mechanically transfer energy is a stand alone invention, and if it can be used to fulfill the goal of a CVT that's a separate matter. I'm sorry but I think you're mistaken about your invention and our brief meeting on here will be fruitless since you will never get it done and I will never be able to see it.
@sleddog123 You are probably right, just talking about it here is fruitless unless someone or company sees this post and wants to be the one to develop the first "true" and "feasible" Positive Drive Infinitely Variable Transmission. I have almost completed a simple prototype to demonstrate the proof of concept. It is not complicated but is very unique. It does not fit any existing types of CVTs or IVTs and will probably require a "new" classification at the USPTO.
@EurekaThis A gear to gear connection that is not gear to gear? You mean it's mechanically driven (as opposed to fictionally driven) but does not use gears I assume. What is the patent number I would love to check it out.
@sleddog123 Yes it is mechanically driven and yes it does NOT use gears. It is different then ANY type of IVT or CVT presently known. The patent is applied for under a non-published application which means it can't be seen until the patent is granted which won't be for a couple years. I would love to show how it works but can only show it to someone who has a serious interest in licensing and/or development and then only after a non-discloser agreement has been signed.
@EurekaThis What does " while directly connected" mean? The fact of the matter is that single input CVTs require friction based operation, and 2 input CVTs are not really CVTs, although if the result is the same it doesn't really matter in my mind.
@sleddog123 By "directly connected" I mean a positive connection as in a gear to gear connection with no possibility of slipping however it is NOT gear to gear. The input is directly connected to the output yet does not use gears, cams, ratchets or any incrementing method or fluids and is NOT friction driven.. You are correct in saying that today's single input CVTs require a "friction based operation" because the engineers and inventors have not been able to figure out how to do it. I have !
You all are right. This is just a planetary gear set / system whereby the output rotational speed is infinitely varied by infinitely varying the speed of one of the other gears in the set. You still have the "problem" of how to infinitely vary the gear used as the control. Now you need an infinitely variable transmission to vary the control gear's speed. However, I have just applied for a patent for a method to achieve a variable speed output while directly connected and it is the "real deal"
This is just an axial differential. Just the same kind of differential that every car use but with axial configuration. This will not revolutionize anything, you need two engines: one to generate the power and another engine to regulate the output, there is not business there. This idea has been used for years in naval engineering but certainly is totally undesirable for automotive applications ... unless you want to use 200 HP to transmit only 100.
@racevws Wrong. The control motor will need to generate torque equal to the input motor in order to "stall" the control shaft to provide full power transfer of the input motor to the output shaft.
i dont get it....whats so unique?....this is just another planetary tranny...you will have to have electric solenoids or hydraulics for control....maybe clutches or bands... even like regular auto trans....also the ring pinion gear may cause massive imbalance when its big enough for real world torque requirements..and possibly a torque converter too..to smooth out transitions.....maybe im missing something...please correct me if im wrong..id love to see things that will work
What a fucking spastic, I hope he didn't waste money patenting that useless piece of shit, its sort of like taking out car theft insurance on a Volvo......
@ohger1 Not hard to do with a low displacement engine and a high torque electric motor... See Toyota Prius which has this EXACT implementation in their CVT transmission which uses a planetary gear set.
@khroe Only if the control motor seizes. If the control motor fails electrically where it can't provide any back torque, the output would drop to almost zero (gear drag would allow a very small forward torque).
@oxysean yeah, with fixed gear ratios, sure. but isn't one of the benefits of infinitely variable to allow the transmission to better match a fixed input (well, fixed for a moment anyway) to the power demand? like a snowmobile...it's full throttle until you hit your speed, as the variable transmission modulates the output (velocity).
eh, I give the guy credit... but really, who want to listen to their 500 horsepower V8 maintain a constant 6000 RPM until they hit their speed? I want to hear the revs climb over and over again as I work through the gears!!!
It needs another mind bending invention to control it without wasting energy. Ah, I've got it! A permanent magnet motor which generates electricity at intermediate speeds, stops at top speed, and works as a motor for reverse.
What bends more my mind is the INPUT side !!!! The input eccentric is hard to visualise, but it seems to be in sync (180 degrees apart) with the output shaft.
If your design goals are: Continually variable gear ratio, no friction elements, and possibility of neutral and reverse, then you can do this with the Prius transmission. All you need is a single planetary gear. Use the sun, planet and ring, couple to them the prime mover, an electric motor, and use the free one as an output. What has been done here is referrred to as going around your ass to reach your elbow.
this might be interesting for electric sportscars since it still isnt that simple to have an electric motor that has lots of torque and spinns very fast while being very light.
for combustion engine however its usless, who wants 2 engines ? And hybrid wont work either because this needs both motors to run all the time(except at fullspeed) , that kinda makes it impossible to run electric only ot low speed.
THIS IS AMAZING. it really is the holy grail of cvt transmissions. all you would need to do is split the engine output with a differential and use friction plates to control the two input speeds!
@petenatandt no because the friction plates wouldn't affect the gear's traction at all, like say a belt cvt that relies on friction to keep the belt from slipping. the friction plates would be like brake discs, varying the speed of the input gears. (in this model he just has two electric motors that he varies the speeds) i mean, how would you suggest varying the two speeds of the input gears if they come from one engine?
@oxysean I guess I just cant get my head around it. If friction plates can be used to control the input speed, with no adverse effects, then why not simply use them rather than all this stuff?
Do they even teach the conservation laws in school anymore?
The POWER of the input and control shafts is equal. Irrespective of the torque or rpm, individually. The PRODUCT of rpm (angular velocity) X torque is shaft power. And, is conserved, less friction losses.
This is a simple open differential and follows the same rules as any other gear-train.
Power(out) = Power(input1)+ Power(input2)
and
Power(input1)=Power(input2)
No matter how many gears you add. It comes down to this.
@lordandprotector I think you're missing the point. This invention (theoretically) saves energy in two ways: reducing friction losses in transmission (especially compared to a conventional CVT), or improving efficiency of the primary motor by allowing it to run at its most efficient speed (as opposed to the compromise inherent in a conventional geartrain). This isn't trying to get energy from nothing.
@soundofgeek I'm afraid you are the one who has missed the point. While CVTs do increase efficiency, this is not a CVT. This is an open differential. You need as big an engine (hp) on the 'control' input as you do on the 'main' input. So, nothing is saved. You have just moved the problem to the control engine. That is to say, this IS a conventional gear train. My reference to the conservation laws is about how you calculate shaft power in and out. of a gear-train.
To be more clear. You can accomplish the same range ratios of speed and torque on the input and output shafts with a single planetary gear set or even the differential on a rear-wheel-drive car. This accomplished the same thing. But, with the added frictional losses of its Rube Goldbergian design. He is not trying to get 'free energy' which is good. But, he has no understanding of the physics of power transfer. Just another victim of mathematical illiteracy. :(
@lordandprotector I've just looked up what an open differential is and how it works - I didn't understand that when I wrote my original reply, and it looks awfully like I was wrong. The only question I still have is whether this elaborate contraption somehow reduces the energy input required from that secondary motor - that would make this invention everything it's supposed to be. As a default guess, I'm going to assume it doesn't.
Props for actually looking it up. That puts you WAY ahead of most.
The combination of the conservation of energy ( or really of momentum ) and the fact that power = rpm x torque, together, means that no mater how many gears you add, total power sums to 0. So:
powerin1=10 powerin2=10 powerout= -20 all add up to 0
increasing the rpm of powerin1 increases the torque load on powerin2 and vis versa. So, the products of rpm and torque for each are always equal.
It also means that the total power out is limited to 2 times the power of the weaker of the two input motors. So, even if you had a 500hp main motor and a 2hp 'control' motor, your max output power is 4hp. A little algebra with the variable involved reveals what is really going on.
Look for the videos called "The Mechanical Universe"
After you watch that series, you will understand WHY this all is.
It's the best treatment of mechanics that I have ever seen.
@lordandprotector I saw this video and thought it was amazing but after reading your comments and thinking about it for five minutes you're totally right. It doesn't work at all. High five for smart people.
I like it, even if it will take away my next weekend to check how it works exactly...I see a drawback: with so many gears always working it will be less efficient than a common gear shifter if you consider a single speed (might be more efficient on a complete drive course since it avoids clutch losses and can keep the motor at optimal speed). I hope I'm wrong, I like new things!
Last Time I checked differential in my RC car it worked on same old principle you want to patent...
If I stop one wheel other will rotate on maximum speed.
Your idea of stopping that rotating part is funny. As if you want to use it in real car then friction will make vast amount of heat that you can build steam engine around it.
As far as I can tell, this is very similar to a differential's adding ability but what he has done is made one of the inputs require an extremely small fraction of power to change the turning ratio... or perhaps something else but that is the best as I can understand it.
@Aaron16ExtraAmmo No, he *says* that the control input requires a fraction of the power, and since the "control gear" is small, people *think* it would be a low-power input, but it's not. This fraud is abusing the counter-intuitive nature of gearing.
@obscureanimations Well I didn't assume it that way. I am assuming that the left side of the mechanism allows the net torque on that bottom shaft to be very small. I'm trying to diagram it to see and sadly they don't describe the left side of the machine very well.
i agree, although it seems like there could be some friction or assembly problems that he had to address and got this in the result. but the concept is very interesting none the less, if he was able to patent it i suppose it's original?
@79HZGTS "A differential does not allow for one wheel speed changes" Yes it does, an easy way to understand this is to pick up a RC toy with differential on it and experiment with it. this thing is nothing more than a very complicated differential. This mechanism wont work in high torque application like a car transmission, nevertheless it is a great thought.
You had better have a closer look at your RC toy differential.
If you pick up your RC car and turn it on so that the motor drives the wheels, both wheels should turn at about the same speed. If you grab hold of one wheel and stop it from turning, then the other wheel will increase to twice it's original speed.
If the motor speed stays the same, then you cannot have a change of speed of only one wheel.
@79HZGTS When I said it is kind of like a differential, I meant the core principle it does not work exactly like the differential. what you need to do with the toy car is this.. image you motor input is like a regular car engine and one of the wheel shaft as a secondary input like the one shown in this video and the remaining shaft as the output drive. DIY: Get a speed varying electrical drill and duct-tape it to one of the rear wheels. Put the car upside down, run its motor at a low speed.
@LTF85199 2nd part.. at the same time vary the speed of the drill and observe the speed changes on the other wheel. if you experiment with all the speed ranges of the drill you can get the other wheel to spin faster, slower, stop or spin in reverse. Try it before jumbling to a conclusion. and what the video again..
You are perfectly correct in saying that this device works exactly the same as car differential, and I understand and agree with what you are trying to explain with the RC car and the electric drill. You are right on the money with all of that.
What I took exception to was when you disagreed with the comment "A differential does not allow for one wheel speed changes".
You are incorrect in saying that it does.
On a car differential, if one wheel slows down, the other wheel speeds up.
@79HZGTS of course it does, you even said it.. "on a car differential, if one wheel slows down, the other wheel speeds up" What do you call that ? that is a difference in speed.. when cornering a car to the right at say 50mph. the right wheel may spin at 45mph while the left one at 55mph at the same time the engine shaft revolution is at a 50mph equivalent. The whole point of the differential is create this speed difference to eliminate turn induced wear on the tires.
A car differential does not allow for one wheel speed changes. OK?
You said it yourself:
"when cornering a car to the right at say 50mph. the right wheel may spin at 45mph while the left one at 55mph at the same time the engine shaft revolution...".
One wheel has increased in speed while the other has slowed down.
If the engine speed has stayed at the 50mph equivalent, then it is impossible for only one wheel to change speed and the other stay at 50 mph.
The "differential" under the back of your car is just one type of differential transmission. Just because this doesn't look exactly the same as the gears in the rear axle of a car doesn't mean that is not a differential transmission.
This transmission operates in exactly the same way as an open-wheel (non-LSD) differential, it is just overly complicated.
This is in essence merely an epicyclic (sun, planets, ring) with two in puts and one output, so you need two power sources for the input, one can be constant speed and the other variable speed. It is nothing new and it is in the Prius in principle.
springhill1958 7 hours ago
There is such a vehicle that has this very Transmission system within... You'll have to find the number to the UNSC or contact John personally. BAHA!
123LNR 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
as a transmission this wouldnt work well. this is just a differential. it uses Stright cut gears wich will be noisy as hell under load. Reverse gear in a manual is usualy a stright cut gear wich is why they Wine so loudy in some cars. the rest in a car are helical cut to make them quiet and pull into each other for solid mating under tourqe. in this demo you have one input at wide open throttle constantly wile a second input changes rpm to match ratio. this is a terriblly ineffitiant setup.
MrGizmo757 1 week ago
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MrGizmo757 1 week ago
come on! there's plastic in it
oneyeviewer 3 weeks ago
@oneyeviewer You are clearly not very intelligent, so why did you watch this video in the first place?
8:38 and I quote "... not made of plastic. This was a model that we built just to prove the concept ..."
You remind me of a christian whose whole and in part against scientology.
Troll.
produKtNZ 2 weeks ago
@oneyeviewer It has plastic parts so he has an excuse for not putting a load on the output. The exact dimensions of the gears aren't critical -- I'm supposed to believe that he worked on this for years, and just can't find or afford a few metal gears?
obscureanimations 2 weeks ago
So the electric motor would need to have the same power as the engine would, otherwise when any load was applied the electric motor would be twisted backwards and burn out, I know a way you could make this so much simpler....
vanepico 3 weeks ago
@vanepico They explained why it wouldn't have to be equal output in the control side as the input side. It just has to spin the rear sun gear at the same speed. That's it.
arkanadyne 5 days ago
@arkanadyne Why does the control motor just have to spin a gear at the same speed? Because the inventor said it just had to spin a gear at the same speed? Are you always this credulous?
obscureanimations 3 days ago
@obscureanimations Because friction is not an issue. It's called a control motor because it controls the output. The only restriction on the system is from the output. The control has nothing to do with that. I can't really list an example of a similar design because this is an original design (that I know of anyway). But if you think about it, I'm sure it will make sense.
arkanadyne 3 days ago
Wow I got lost in the first ring gear, would ya repeat that again??
ozzcarandme 3 weeks ago
this is a smart principle...but for this system this mean i need 2 engines to work to geter or 1 ICE and one STRONG electric motor which saps power from the ICE...i mean what if the car is going up hill and the electric motor has to keep up with the ring gear proportion, this will definitely has an affect .... very smart idea but i dont think its efficient....time will tell
samawal3131 1 month ago
Bad engineering. Basically he is bleeding off engine speed by spinning the sun gear in the opposite direction. As output speed comes closer to input speed, you would have to apply an more reactant torque to the variable speed(ed) sun gear to hold it in place. He does this with two separate motors applying torque. 50% of the input power would be needed for this transmission to work at top speed. Newton for the win...
1krr 1 month ago
lol, this is not a transmission. It's just like the open differential on a car but stupid. Imagine if you spun one tire ("input") in one direction and your friend ("extra motor") spun the other at the same speed but in the opposite direction, the driveshaft ("output") would not spin as if in neutral. Now if your friend stopped his tire youd get "drive" and "reverse" if he spun it faster than you in the opposite direction. But no change in torque, so no transmission u sneaky plumber!
TTURocketDoc 1 month ago 2
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TTURocketDoc 1 month ago
WHAAAAAAAAT?
konstantynoneonapoli 1 month ago
It's de most complex differential ever made!
ViniciusVetor 2 months ago
seems like b.s.
im no engineer but still...no load on the prototype?
theonetense 2 months ago
Wouldn't a 1:1 ratio require the control shaft gear to spin at the same speed as the motor... which would imply that it's motor needs to be powerful enough to keep up with it... which implies that you need the main engine which spins the main shaft to be the same power as the motor that regulates the input shafts speed to keep a 1:1 ratio. This would imply that if this transmission was bolted to a 450 horsepower engine, there'd need to be ANOTHER 450 horsepower engine to drive the input shaft.
Krauser1226 2 months ago
lol, this is just an ordinary differential gear...
Noah1989 2 months ago
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liOVERLOADil 2 months ago
@BorisQueue @ohger
Then I gess that the only way to make it properly work would be through reverse engineering
9deji 2 months ago
auto-giants will bann that stuff
samoahbay 3 months ago 2
All I'm seeing is a differential. Nothing more.
dreamdiction 3 months ago 9
@dreamdiction It is a fancy differential that is easier to change the ratios on, but yes, basically could be done with a differential.
aForkandaSpoon 1 month ago
Pardon me sir, I respect your work, and I have a question. If we have to use electric motor in order to control gear smoothly why don't we use electric motor just to drive the whole Car, for example? OK, This device can gradually control the output speed, does output force gets adjusted as well as in "Conventional" gearbox? Going further - if we use Differential drive and apply electric motor to one of the wheels won't another wheel get speed adjusted? I am curious, no challenge. Thank you.
DragonToko 3 months ago
@DragonToko
From my limited understanding, a variable speed electrical motor (what you have described) would defintiely be more suitable. However, this brings in complications of fuel/energy storage etc.
chrislewispam 3 months ago
@chrislewispam Exactly. Same story with this gearbox. Extra electric motor will eat lot of power and box doesn't have to be that complicated. Use simple Differential, it will do same job. And I think this design uses 2 electric motors, for both shafts. As much as I understood.
DragonToko 3 months ago
@DragonToko Why not consider a motorgenerator? A traditional ICE drives a generator (alternator anyone?) which provides electrical power to a motor which will then drive the wheels. This electrical motor can be variable speed.
chrislewispam 3 months ago
@chrislewispam The advantage of this type of gear I can see is that it allows to vary speed in very low revs (Rev.M1-Rev.M2), but again, Differential could do the same. Application of such device could be in some speed control devices where saving energy in not an issue, but not in cars.
DragonToko 3 months ago
so he invented a differential.
86Ivar 3 months ago
Looks like the toyota prius transmission.
ShwangShwing 3 months ago
this is not new the aircraft industry have been using this for years. we use it to keep the generator turning at the correct speed for all engine speeds have a look at an aircraft constant speed drive unit CSDU
Calumpollock 4 months ago
i need an asprin!
PhobiaGuy 4 months ago
A more advanced system with special provisions for "high torque forward", provision for automatically choosing any gear ratio from zero to infinity, using planetary gears controlled by fl;uid pressure, has been already patented in U S and India before about 3 years, namely "infinitely variable gear transmission with microprocessor control ( IVGT), U S Patent No.7632205; An improvement of this patent has also been filed recently in USPTO and India.
varunnyful 5 months ago
That would make a super boat transmission.
tomharrell1954 5 months ago
VIBRATIONS! ON THE BIG PLANETARY, AM I RIGHT?
makinamati 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
A better planetary gear system has already been patented in India and U S, years back. "Infinitely variable gear transmission with microprocessor control"
U S Patent No. 7632205. A further improvement has also been filed in India and U S. The patents have also been filed for hybrid drives, as further improvement of the system in India. varunnyku@hotmail.com
varunnyful 5 months ago
I say that this isn't merely a case of a misguided inventor: this is fraud. The engineering study on his own web site says it doesn't work. And he doesn't demonstrate it under load: he intentionally put plastic output gears on it as an excuse for this -- what, he just couldn't afford to buy a few more metal gears?
BorisQueue 5 months ago 16
@BorisQueue
If you watch the video till the end you can hear him talking about metal gears and load ;)
heavyweather 3 months ago
@heavyweather Yes, about how he doesn't have a load on it because he doesn't have metal gears yet. Well, where is the load demo, then?
BorisQueue 3 months ago
@BorisQueue it needs two motors . one to drive it, one two stall the shaft. Why would you think it does not work under load? Only at low rpm viable though.
heavyweather 3 months ago
@heavyweather Sorry, don't really want to talk about it. Just read the Engineering Analysis on the guy's own web site, where it says "This is not an infinitely-variable transmission".
BorisQueue 3 months ago
@BorisQueue How does it not work, it made sense to me. I saw one of these at a case dealer, it had a hand crank and an electric motor. I could stop the output, speed it up, and reverse it. Why wouldn't this work (THEY USE IT ON FUCKING TRACTORS, WOULD YOU CALL THAT A LOAD).
aForkandaSpoon 1 month ago
@aForkandaSpoon What is the "IT" they use "ON FUCKING TRACTORS"? The Durnin D-Drive transmission? I doubt it. Just read section 5.5 of the lab report on the D-Drive site. You're falling victim to a simple fallacy: that because the "control gear" is small, it obviously doesn't see an equal load.
BorisQueue 1 month ago
@BorisQueue It was plastic, and had gears (including planetary ones) obviously it was similar to this. It would be simple to get this heading the right direction though. Basically to achieve full output speed you use an electric motor breaking system which, can infinitely variate braking power by applying load and charging batteries, then applying power in a special manor to completely stop the control shaft. Going in reverse would just be easier to achieve by reversing input.
aForkandaSpoon 1 month ago
@BorisQueue So basically from what I see is that you apply variable breaking to the control shaft to variate the speed of the output shaft. Apply no breaking for neutral. Apply turning power for reverse, or reverse input, or engaging a small CVT designed to have high torque over the control shaft (you don't go fast in reverse anyway) and you have a great system. You are being to negative about this, simply put, it is infinitely variable, stronger, and more efficient than a CVT
aForkandaSpoon 1 month ago
Comment removed
BorisQueue 1 month ago
@aForkandaSpoon Well, there are reasons that GizMag, who printed a glowing review of this mechanism, later retracted it:
ht to the tp://w to the w to the w.gizmag.c to the om/d-drive-redux/15120/
Among other things, actual Mechanical Engineers (not me) say it is totally impossible to create a CVT with fixed gear ratios.
BorisQueue 1 month ago
@BorisQueue So what that it is impossible to make a CVT with fixed gear ratios. I have realized this device could be much simpler by using something like a differential instead of the elaborate complexity it is. But it still seems like a functionable idea. Why wouldn't it work under load?
aForkandaSpoon 1 month ago
@aForkandaSpoon If it's impossible to make a CVT/IVT with fixed gear rations, then this isn't a CVT/IVT, and shouldn't be claimed as one. Why wouldn't it work under load? Because, as covered in the Lab Report, just because one gear is smaller and called a Control Input doesn't make it so: you need just as big a motor on each input shaft to achieve "neutral". This is not a magic "torque transistor" that amplifies the Control Input and protects it from seeing a load.
BorisQueue 1 month ago
@BorisQueue So do you mean it is impossible to make a *VT that outputs fixed gear ratios, or uses them. The control shaft shouldn't have to do what you hare talking about, in just needs stopping power equivalent to the original input. That can easily be done with a large powerful break. The motor included on it just has to be strong enough to turn the shaft to turn the shaft.
aForkandaSpoon 1 month ago
@aForkandaSpoon To be more specific, it is impossible to create a CVT/IVT that employs *nothing* but fixed gears. You say that the motor on the control shaft just has to be strong enough to turn the shaft. Why do you say that? Because Durnin says that in the video. He is wrong, and it is awfully difficult to believe it's an honest mistake.
BorisQueue 1 month ago
@BorisQueue What? I did not say that the control shaft needs the same moving power, it needs the same breaking/stopping power, which is easy. If you wan't to go in reverse, you still can, you just give a weak motor a large amount of torque over the whole system. This would allow reverse, and would go slow, but tractors don't really need fast reverse, nor do cars. I sat down with my little car right now and using the diff I applied breaking to one wheel and variated it infinitely.
aForkandaSpoon 1 month ago
@aForkandaSpoon I don't know what you're talking about. In the D-Drive, there is a motor attached to the alleged "Control Shaft", not a brake. Then again, you keep implying that the Control Shaft just needs a "weak motor". Why? Why do you say it needs a "weak motor"? Because Durnin said it?
And you sat down with your little car that has a D-Drive transmission? I'm sure that's very cute and all, but if you can't spell "brake", I can't really continue replying to you.
BorisQueue 1 month ago
@BorisQueue I can spell brake, I just don't feel like writing an English paper for a youtube comment. My car doesn't have a d-drive, but it does have a differential which is very similar to this when placed under load. You have input and two outputs, one of which is used to control the other. After watching this enough times it has become a little less than what I once thought. It is over complicated, but with a little work it would work.
aForkandaSpoon 1 month ago
@BorisQueue As for the little motor, I use that term because people complain about the use of a CVT from the original output hooked to the control. "little" because you don't need fast or especially powerful reverse.
aForkandaSpoon 1 month ago
@BorisQueue Some more direct info on what I am talking about can be noted here: 6:24 as you can see the control/lower shaft is not turning and the output its. This is full output mode, and is controlled by a fluid brake (hydraulic pump with limitable valve. As you open the valve the output. Both shafts could also be control shafts and then for reverse the other shafts brake would be applied.
aForkandaSpoon 1 month ago
@aForkandaSpoon FINAL CONCLUSION. Ok, so after spending about an hour off and on, and then the past 45 minutes researching this I have reached this conclusion.
This device requires three equivalently powered drives to operate.
This device output has the power of only one of the input drives, not all three.
This device would work under a load with the proper usage of mechanics.
A IVT can be created using fixed gears. (Diff. Method)
I am gonna make my own IVT and share it with the world.
aForkandaSpoon 1 month ago
Good idea...but i don't see the big deal about how complicated this is to understand?
navdrum001 5 months ago
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holy grail of wheels... new invention makes driving easier at wwwDOTsidedriverDOTcom
SidedriverDotCom 5 months ago
How is this different from the Toyota Prius' transmission? This is a planetary CVT transmission just like in the Toyota Prius... I can't see how this is NOT copying the one in the Prius.
imzjustplayin 5 months ago
@imzjustplayin If the Prius used this transmission, the car wouldn't go. The Prius transmission is a copy of a design that's been out for decades.
ohger1 4 months ago
If you cant see that this is genius then you do not truly understand it.
JordanCharlesBurrows 5 months ago
Congratulations! You have invented the differential.
panulli4 5 months ago
does it really works ? doesn't it work by actually subtracting power ? which is not a transmission is supposed to do. I mean the product Rotation Speed * Torque has to stay constant, i am not sure it is the case here
dou40006 5 months ago
the concept is good, however application has limits, for exemple a car will always need some kind of clutch,otherwise if you start braking the gearbox would have to adjust with some insane precision to let the engine slowly come back to iddle while matching the wheel speed with it. Aircraft market is not guaranteed since aircraft engine/turbine are made to work without any electric system.
julienjjj 5 months ago
Huh. An adaptation of planetary gear sets. Ingenious.
mgraemem 5 months ago
@furtjager117 Of course, everyone wants that, this just isn't it lol.
sleddog123 5 months ago
@sjwimmel This is not that awesome really. It's not a real CVT, it's just a 2 input transmission. Having 1 motor stay constant and then varying another to change your speed? You could just vary the 1 motor to change your speed lol.
sleddog123 5 months ago
@sleddog123 True, but in some applications (such as turbine engines) keeping the engine at optimal speed while varying the output is extremely useful.
furtjager117 5 months ago
I actually cried out "THAT IS GENIUS!!", repeatedly.
sjwimmel 6 months ago
@EurekaThis Good luck to you. I'll try to remember this interaction in a year or so to see if you have progressed or if not if you'll share it with me then. :)
sleddog123 6 months ago
@sleddog123 Thanks for the well wishes. As you probably know, you can build a better mouse trap but the world doesn't automatically beat a pathway to your door. It takes perseverance, luck, good marketing and the right people involved. This NEW method develops infinitely variable outputs that are constant and continuous and are "mechanically connected"(can NOT slip) and can be easily varied under heavy load (e.g.18 wheelers). NO stepping, ratchets, cams, gears, teeth, pins or fluids. EUREKA !!
EurekaThis 6 months ago
THAT IS SO BEAUTIFUL
anelphabet 6 months ago
@EurekaThis Isn't that something else entirely? A new way to mechanically transfer energy is a stand alone invention, and if it can be used to fulfill the goal of a CVT that's a separate matter. I'm sorry but I think you're mistaken about your invention and our brief meeting on here will be fruitless since you will never get it done and I will never be able to see it.
sleddog123 6 months ago
@sleddog123 You are probably right, just talking about it here is fruitless unless someone or company sees this post and wants to be the one to develop the first "true" and "feasible" Positive Drive Infinitely Variable Transmission. I have almost completed a simple prototype to demonstrate the proof of concept. It is not complicated but is very unique. It does not fit any existing types of CVTs or IVTs and will probably require a "new" classification at the USPTO.
EurekaThis 6 months ago
@EurekaThis A gear to gear connection that is not gear to gear? You mean it's mechanically driven (as opposed to fictionally driven) but does not use gears I assume. What is the patent number I would love to check it out.
sleddog123 6 months ago
@sleddog123 Yes it is mechanically driven and yes it does NOT use gears. It is different then ANY type of IVT or CVT presently known. The patent is applied for under a non-published application which means it can't be seen until the patent is granted which won't be for a couple years. I would love to show how it works but can only show it to someone who has a serious interest in licensing and/or development and then only after a non-discloser agreement has been signed.
EurekaThis 6 months ago
@EurekaThis What does " while directly connected" mean? The fact of the matter is that single input CVTs require friction based operation, and 2 input CVTs are not really CVTs, although if the result is the same it doesn't really matter in my mind.
sleddog123 6 months ago
@sleddog123 By "directly connected" I mean a positive connection as in a gear to gear connection with no possibility of slipping however it is NOT gear to gear. The input is directly connected to the output yet does not use gears, cams, ratchets or any incrementing method or fluids and is NOT friction driven.. You are correct in saying that today's single input CVTs require a "friction based operation" because the engineers and inventors have not been able to figure out how to do it. I have !
EurekaThis 6 months ago
You all are right. This is just a planetary gear set / system whereby the output rotational speed is infinitely varied by infinitely varying the speed of one of the other gears in the set. You still have the "problem" of how to infinitely vary the gear used as the control. Now you need an infinitely variable transmission to vary the control gear's speed. However, I have just applied for a patent for a method to achieve a variable speed output while directly connected and it is the "real deal"
EurekaThis 6 months ago
with two engines and a differential you can make anything from 0 rpm to both the engines rpm squared. Seems like the same principle.
86Ivar 6 months ago
Lol it's a differential. Without a complete set of gears. They already use that on aircraft actuators.
darkmaster388 6 months ago
This is just an axial differential. Just the same kind of differential that every car use but with axial configuration. This will not revolutionize anything, you need two engines: one to generate the power and another engine to regulate the output, there is not business there. This idea has been used for years in naval engineering but certainly is totally undesirable for automotive applications ... unless you want to use 200 HP to transmit only 100.
nachoman5507 7 months ago 2
@nachoman5507 and you know that just by looking? no. testing is needed.
Unibrow5000 7 months ago
@nachoman5507
You can use a much smaller motor, such as an electric motor to drive it, and it only has to drive the gears, not work against the drive shaft.
Skip to 6:49
racevws 6 months ago
@racevws Wrong. The control motor will need to generate torque equal to the input motor in order to "stall" the control shaft to provide full power transfer of the input motor to the output shaft.
ohger1 4 months ago
Comment removed
nachoman5507 7 months ago
this will have to be massive for automotive applications
springbrain74 7 months ago
i designed almost exactly the same thing 23 years ago in junior high..if this really works..ive lost a fortune!
springbrain74 7 months ago
i dont get it....whats so unique?....this is just another planetary tranny...you will have to have electric solenoids or hydraulics for control....maybe clutches or bands... even like regular auto trans....also the ring pinion gear may cause massive imbalance when its big enough for real world torque requirements..and possibly a torque converter too..to smooth out transitions.....maybe im missing something...please correct me if im wrong..id love to see things that will work
springbrain74 7 months ago 2
@gizmag Was this filmed at All Saints Anglican School?
Ricmcspeedy987 7 months ago
What a fucking spastic, I hope he didn't waste money patenting that useless piece of shit, its sort of like taking out car theft insurance on a Volvo......
myjizzureye 7 months ago
@myjizzureye I'd like to see your cvt ;)
bbglas007 6 months ago
@bbglas007 You saucy devil......
myjizzureye 6 months ago
Gizmag or Jizzmag, cause one of these looks like it suits the guy on cam perfectly.
myjizzureye 7 months ago
how should it work in cars?
does it have a better efficiency than a modern gearbox (efficiency about 93-98%)?!
2FadeAuT 7 months ago
4:25 i think there is going to be a lot of vibrations on that transmission.
legendario13 7 months ago
"It's still a flat plate engaging a flat plate." ...Because gear teeth aren't.
M5000thesdgversion 8 months ago
this is how the prius transmissions works with electric motors conected to a planetary gear.
AAntongeorgi 8 months ago
@AAntongeorgi No they dont work like such, its true they have planetary gears, but in no way do they work like the model in the video
bloodreighn 8 months ago
Comment removed
geonerd 8 months ago
It would make an excellent brake for trains, perhaps?
minusian2011 8 months ago
It won't work folks. The control shaft drive motor needs to have as much torque as the input shaft in order to provide full output.
ohger1 8 months ago 7
@ohger1 Correct, so if you have two motors there may be some wonderfully complex application where it may be useful.....
geheirnwaeshen 7 months ago
Comment removed
geheirnwaeshen 7 months ago
@ohger1 Not hard to do with a low displacement engine and a high torque electric motor... See Toyota Prius which has this EXACT implementation in their CVT transmission which uses a planetary gear set.
imzjustplayin 4 months ago
This seems like a cvt manual transmission with physical gearing looks cool and simple how he makes it.
egn83b 8 months ago
Only problem I see is it's not fail safe, control motor fails=instant top gear.
khroe 8 months ago 2
@khroe Only if the control motor seizes. If the control motor fails electrically where it can't provide any back torque, the output would drop to almost zero (gear drag would allow a very small forward torque).
ohger1 7 months ago
Comment removed
AMRennsports 8 months ago
...and by full throttle, of corse I meant keeping the engine at high rev.
Note2ybk 8 months ago
@oxysean yeah, with fixed gear ratios, sure. but isn't one of the benefits of infinitely variable to allow the transmission to better match a fixed input (well, fixed for a moment anyway) to the power demand? like a snowmobile...it's full throttle until you hit your speed, as the variable transmission modulates the output (velocity).
Note2ybk 8 months ago
you can vary input speed, output speed is what transmissions are all about.
oxysean 9 months ago
eh, I give the guy credit... but really, who want to listen to their 500 horsepower V8 maintain a constant 6000 RPM until they hit their speed? I want to hear the revs climb over and over again as I work through the gears!!!
Note2ybk 9 months ago
It needs another mind bending invention to control it without wasting energy. Ah, I've got it! A permanent magnet motor which generates electricity at intermediate speeds, stops at top speed, and works as a motor for reverse.
gilligasad 9 months ago
What bends more my mind is the INPUT side !!!! The input eccentric is hard to visualise, but it seems to be in sync (180 degrees apart) with the output shaft.
ve2zzz 9 months ago
wouldn't the two shafts need the power of the engine??
pagani8 9 months ago
If your design goals are: Continually variable gear ratio, no friction elements, and possibility of neutral and reverse, then you can do this with the Prius transmission. All you need is a single planetary gear. Use the sun, planet and ring, couple to them the prime mover, an electric motor, and use the free one as an output. What has been done here is referrred to as going around your ass to reach your elbow.
bucentaur 10 months ago
this might be interesting for electric sportscars since it still isnt that simple to have an electric motor that has lots of torque and spinns very fast while being very light.
for combustion engine however its usless, who wants 2 engines ? And hybrid wont work either because this needs both motors to run all the time(except at fullspeed) , that kinda makes it impossible to run electric only ot low speed.
tomatowatcher 10 months ago
hmm, interesting, so its basically automatic transmission, but instead of clutches you very the locking.
kakarot1232001 10 months ago
so you need another cvt to run the speed controlling shaft..
joaorp 10 months ago
@joaorp But then what runs THAT cvt?
chuffsoner 10 months ago
@chuffsoner another cvt i guess...
joaorp 10 months ago
@joaorp What runs that one?
chuffsoner 10 months ago
@chuffsoner 3 tiny elfs inside the gearbox witch you have to cover dental care and feed every 10.000 miles..
joaorp 10 months ago
@joaorp ah k fair enough.
chuffsoner 10 months ago
Henry Ford would be proud. You just invented the clutch on a model T
andypilotttt 10 months ago
THIS IS AMAZING. it really is the holy grail of cvt transmissions. all you would need to do is split the engine output with a differential and use friction plates to control the two input speeds!
oxysean 10 months ago
@oxysean wouldn't that remove the advantage of the system not requiring friction? Or is that your point/joke?
petenatandt 10 months ago
@petenatandt no because the friction plates wouldn't affect the gear's traction at all, like say a belt cvt that relies on friction to keep the belt from slipping. the friction plates would be like brake discs, varying the speed of the input gears. (in this model he just has two electric motors that he varies the speeds) i mean, how would you suggest varying the two speeds of the input gears if they come from one engine?
oxysean 10 months ago
@oxysean I guess I just cant get my head around it. If friction plates can be used to control the input speed, with no adverse effects, then why not simply use them rather than all this stuff?
petenatandt 9 months ago
Comment removed
SteveDurnin 11 months ago
ROFLMAO .. "Duh!" 3:38
MrStimpy77 11 months ago 2
Meh
I prefer fixed ratios
CaptainSpadaro 11 months ago
So all I need in order to incorporate this into a vehicle is two engines instead of one. Brilliant!
Glitchfindergeneral 1 year ago
I'll just stick to the inefficient, older mechanism before my brain explodes
darklyperfect 1 year ago
interesting idea but i wonder if having an offset weight spinning at the speeds we drive cars at is a bad move?
Colonelcouchpotato 1 year ago 2
@Colonelcouchpotato
what if you had a giant bearing where the edge of offset touch
oifydude 1 year ago
Do they even teach the conservation laws in school anymore?
The POWER of the input and control shafts is equal. Irrespective of the torque or rpm, individually. The PRODUCT of rpm (angular velocity) X torque is shaft power. And, is conserved, less friction losses.
This is a simple open differential and follows the same rules as any other gear-train.
Power(out) = Power(input1)+ Power(input2)
and
Power(input1)=Power(input2)
No matter how many gears you add. It comes down to this.
lordandprotector 1 year ago 2
@lordandprotector Looks like 1298 people missed that day at school :)
Glitchfindergeneral 1 year ago
@lordandprotector I think you're missing the point. This invention (theoretically) saves energy in two ways: reducing friction losses in transmission (especially compared to a conventional CVT), or improving efficiency of the primary motor by allowing it to run at its most efficient speed (as opposed to the compromise inherent in a conventional geartrain). This isn't trying to get energy from nothing.
soundofgeek 11 months ago
@soundofgeek I'm afraid you are the one who has missed the point. While CVTs do increase efficiency, this is not a CVT. This is an open differential. You need as big an engine (hp) on the 'control' input as you do on the 'main' input. So, nothing is saved. You have just moved the problem to the control engine. That is to say, this IS a conventional gear train. My reference to the conservation laws is about how you calculate shaft power in and out. of a gear-train.
lordandprotector 11 months ago
@soundofgeek
To be more clear. You can accomplish the same range ratios of speed and torque on the input and output shafts with a single planetary gear set or even the differential on a rear-wheel-drive car. This accomplished the same thing. But, with the added frictional losses of its Rube Goldbergian design. He is not trying to get 'free energy' which is good. But, he has no understanding of the physics of power transfer. Just another victim of mathematical illiteracy. :(
lordandprotector 11 months ago
@lordandprotector I've just looked up what an open differential is and how it works - I didn't understand that when I wrote my original reply, and it looks awfully like I was wrong. The only question I still have is whether this elaborate contraption somehow reduces the energy input required from that secondary motor - that would make this invention everything it's supposed to be. As a default guess, I'm going to assume it doesn't.
soundofgeek 11 months ago
@soundofgeek
Props for actually looking it up. That puts you WAY ahead of most.
The combination of the conservation of energy ( or really of momentum ) and the fact that power = rpm x torque, together, means that no mater how many gears you add, total power sums to 0. So:
powerin1=10 powerin2=10 powerout= -20 all add up to 0
increasing the rpm of powerin1 increases the torque load on powerin2 and vis versa. So, the products of rpm and torque for each are always equal.
lordandprotector 11 months ago
@soundofgeek
It also means that the total power out is limited to 2 times the power of the weaker of the two input motors. So, even if you had a 500hp main motor and a 2hp 'control' motor, your max output power is 4hp. A little algebra with the variable involved reveals what is really going on.
Look for the videos called "The Mechanical Universe"
After you watch that series, you will understand WHY this all is.
It's the best treatment of mechanics that I have ever seen.
lordandprotector 11 months ago 2
@lordandprotector I saw this video and thought it was amazing but after reading your comments and thinking about it for five minutes you're totally right. It doesn't work at all. High five for smart people.
VicMorrowsGhost 10 months ago
I like it, even if it will take away my next weekend to check how it works exactly...I see a drawback: with so many gears always working it will be less efficient than a common gear shifter if you consider a single speed (might be more efficient on a complete drive course since it avoids clutch losses and can keep the motor at optimal speed). I hope I'm wrong, I like new things!
marcheseDS 1 year ago
let's see the transmision in the prototype vehicle :).the principle is very interesting
liviooo18 1 year ago
apparently he redesigned the control box/mechanism to make it more efficient
jimbosmagot 1 year ago
Last Time I checked differential in my RC car it worked on same old principle you want to patent...
If I stop one wheel other will rotate on maximum speed.
Your idea of stopping that rotating part is funny. As if you want to use it in real car then friction will make vast amount of heat that you can build steam engine around it.
DarkFox2232 1 year ago
@DarkFox2232
i'm no car expert but i have a feeling you're talking about a differential not a transmission system.
DonCuppe 1 year ago 2
you are a genius !
Flowrazornapalm 1 year ago
As far as I can tell, this is very similar to a differential's adding ability but what he has done is made one of the inputs require an extremely small fraction of power to change the turning ratio... or perhaps something else but that is the best as I can understand it.
Aaron16ExtraAmmo 1 year ago
@Aaron16ExtraAmmo No, he *says* that the control input requires a fraction of the power, and since the "control gear" is small, people *think* it would be a low-power input, but it's not. This fraud is abusing the counter-intuitive nature of gearing.
obscureanimations 1 year ago
@obscureanimations Well I didn't assume it that way. I am assuming that the left side of the mechanism allows the net torque on that bottom shaft to be very small. I'm trying to diagram it to see and sadly they don't describe the left side of the machine very well.
Aaron16ExtraAmmo 1 year ago
But what is the output ratio?
AmazGraz 1 year ago
I'm afraid Toyota's synergy drive already has had this scooped by many years (Toyota Prius & Camry, Ford's Escape, etc.)
KerwoodDerby58 1 year ago
It seems like you can do this in a lot less gears..
tucense 1 year ago
@tucense
i agree, although it seems like there could be some friction or assembly problems that he had to address and got this in the result. but the concept is very interesting none the less, if he was able to patent it i suppose it's original?
regardless, i like the idea. his or not.
DonCuppe 1 year ago
@PurpleXity1,
What the fuck are you talking about? A differential does not allow for "one wheel speed changes".
If one wheel is allowed to increase in speed, then the other wheel will slow down.
79HZGTS 1 year ago
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@79HZGTS "A differential does not allow for one wheel speed changes" Yes it does, an easy way to understand this is to pick up a RC toy with differential on it and experiment with it. this thing is nothing more than a very complicated differential. This mechanism wont work in high torque application like a car transmission, nevertheless it is a great thought.
LTF85199 1 year ago
@LTF85199,
You had better have a closer look at your RC toy differential.
If you pick up your RC car and turn it on so that the motor drives the wheels, both wheels should turn at about the same speed. If you grab hold of one wheel and stop it from turning, then the other wheel will increase to twice it's original speed.
If the motor speed stays the same, then you cannot have a change of speed of only one wheel.
79HZGTS 1 year ago
@79HZGTS When I said it is kind of like a differential, I meant the core principle it does not work exactly like the differential. what you need to do with the toy car is this.. image you motor input is like a regular car engine and one of the wheel shaft as a secondary input like the one shown in this video and the remaining shaft as the output drive. DIY: Get a speed varying electrical drill and duct-tape it to one of the rear wheels. Put the car upside down, run its motor at a low speed.
LTF85199 1 year ago
@LTF85199 2nd part.. at the same time vary the speed of the drill and observe the speed changes on the other wheel. if you experiment with all the speed ranges of the drill you can get the other wheel to spin faster, slower, stop or spin in reverse. Try it before jumbling to a conclusion. and what the video again..
LTF85199 1 year ago
@LTF85199,
You are perfectly correct in saying that this device works exactly the same as car differential, and I understand and agree with what you are trying to explain with the RC car and the electric drill. You are right on the money with all of that.
What I took exception to was when you disagreed with the comment "A differential does not allow for one wheel speed changes".
You are incorrect in saying that it does.
On a car differential, if one wheel slows down, the other wheel speeds up.
79HZGTS 1 year ago
@79HZGTS of course it does, you even said it.. "on a car differential, if one wheel slows down, the other wheel speeds up" What do you call that ? that is a difference in speed.. when cornering a car to the right at say 50mph. the right wheel may spin at 45mph while the left one at 55mph at the same time the engine shaft revolution is at a 50mph equivalent. The whole point of the differential is create this speed difference to eliminate turn induced wear on the tires.
LTF85199 1 year ago
@LTF85199,
Lets get this straight:
A car differential does not allow for one wheel speed changes. OK?
You said it yourself:
"when cornering a car to the right at say 50mph. the right wheel may spin at 45mph while the left one at 55mph at the same time the engine shaft revolution...".
One wheel has increased in speed while the other has slowed down.
If the engine speed has stayed at the 50mph equivalent, then it is impossible for only one wheel to change speed and the other stay at 50 mph.
79HZGTS 1 year ago
@79HZGTS yea you are right not just one wheel both wheel relative speed alteration.
LTF85199 1 year ago
@PurpleXity1,
The "differential" under the back of your car is just one type of differential transmission. Just because this doesn't look exactly the same as the gears in the rear axle of a car doesn't mean that is not a differential transmission.
This transmission operates in exactly the same way as an open-wheel (non-LSD) differential, it is just overly complicated.
79HZGTS 1 year ago