Open Carry in California: 12031 Check, More Belligerent Cop

[jacurtis88]

Since you haven't committed a crime and you know it, then why not just cooperate? You will probably complete the search a lot quicker and the officers will have a higher opinion of future Open Carry Advocates that they encounter. The officers aren't trying to cause problems they just want to make sure that you aren't a threat. I support the open carry movement (I have and prefer CCW personally) but lets help the cops see us as a blessing not an annoyance or a curse. I say simply cooperate.

[OptimusTrajan]

You guys have to register your guns in California? And they have to be unloaded to carry? Jesus fuck.

[sunshine25801]

u guys are hot!

[pullnshoot25]

@sunshine25801 Aaaw, thanks! We appreciate that!

[sunshine25801]

@pullnshoot25 we should compare guns sometime...

[csxconductor100]

put your ID under your nut sack. that will solve your problem

[pullnshoot25]

@csxconductor100 I would never find it when I need it! 

[mercsan117]

@pullnshoot25 I just laughed so hard



[macwhite4265]

is that the guy from burn notice?

[JanRichardus]

Talking to cops is against your interest.

[pullnshoot25]

@JanRichardus Damn right.



[strangenewworlds]

I disagree with your comment that police don't want to see armed citizens. Maybe in Commiefornia that is true, but I know alot of police who support the 2nd amendment. Some sheriff in SC just came out saying he wanted more people to get their permits.

[pullnshoot25]

@strangenewworlds California has 10% of the US population. That's a pretty big chunk.

[strangenewworlds]

@pullnshoot25 And not all cops in CA are anti-gun. Search for "Cool Cop In Oceanside CA About Open Carry"

[strangenewworlds]

@strangenewworlds Just don't make broad statements about groups of people.

[kez850]

@strangenewworlds

Every state (and city within) has different opinions. Clearly a place like Cali will offer the most problems for gun owners. They grow up from day 1 seeing gun violence on the news, or associating it with gangsters on the street. On the other hand, growing up in places like pretty much any where in the south show you that guns aren't only used for bad. They can be a tool used to defend you from those who wish to break the law and make you their victim.

[cantthinkofone77]

good video,thanks.

[JAndersonIV]

Glad to see y'all legally fighting this as best you can over there. Be safe and good luck.

[mcdhensity]

You don't look like a cop.. Think i saw you working in a parlor.. put the gun down and start trimming women's hairs.

[axell2002]

and meaning recent past,last 50 years or so

[axell2002]

let me rephrase,i mean over the majority of the U.S. there is more "open" carry now then anytime in the past,people were never as blatent about it.

[axell2002]

i dont think its always a power play,or just to infringe on your rights.now i do believe in open carry but i think (my opinion,knowing police officers personally ) its more about adding a new level of potential dangers to a policeman,more so now days cpos arent feared by criminals as in the past as now they find themselves also targets,not to say that some police are not assholes but its a transitional period we all have to get used to,the public carrying guns !!!

[STiTypeUK]

@axell2002 the public has been carrying guns for longer than you've been alive. its nothing new.

[NonReductionist]

Im so glad i live in Georgia.  I can carry loaded and concealed :-)

[pullnshoot25]

@NonReductionist Take a look at the origins of the laws, you will be surprised.



[Freakorcycle]

Is it illegal to open carry a un registered gun?

[btown69]

@zackhardball, Hey, that's a geat idea, destroy or tamper with the serial number, a felony in california, and that will really earn you some points.. But maybe you are trying to say something else in an unarticulate way. Do you mean the cop can read the sn even with the crazy glue on it. cuz if you don't then you are tampering, concealing, destroying the serial number. So if you're trying to conceal it, hell you might as well just grind the SN off (still a felony).

[btown69]

So, if all of the traffic cops have been trigger happy, why are you still here? You say most citizens experience hostile cops. I know cops deal with the worst in society on a daily basis (they chose that job), but with that said, anybody learns to adapt to their surroundings to survive. So since cops pull people over who have guns, weapons, are combative, or are just having the worst day in their life, the cop is suppose to stand their and not take precautions. quit hating, change laws

[TheRockomb]

Dear god...the guy playing the cop needs to learn his lines...and change your appearance..you make cops look really homosexual.

[pullnshoot25]

@TheRockomb So cops can't be homosexual?

[TheRockomb]

@pullnshoot25

They can be...but even they have a more commanding and seriousness to them than your "cop".

Get him to learn the civilians lines and the other guy be the cop...more realistic and convinsing.

[pullnshoot25]

@TheRockomb Just for you, I will get on letting myself know to be more masculine.

*eyeroll*

[zemogmonster]

@TheRockomb wow, you guys are funny. This seems like a comedy skit from SNL. LOL

[jcashrednek]

@pullnshoot25 no they cant

[btown69]

@pullnshoot25 Relax Pullnshoot, I think all cops are just homos trying to break out of a heterosexual's body. Dont turn your wrath on the rock, keep it where it needs to be-on all those crooked cops. Don't worry about the crooked cops trying to fight real crime, go ahead and keep waisting the time of the cops.

[fyadcorp]

@TheRockomb cram it

[lanceehansen]

@TheRockomb leduslature and gov of california just took our rights away

[409na]

@TheRockomb Cops Are Homosexual, The Rub up agaist e every day...

[gargoyle1701]

you dont have the right to take id or pull the weapon and thats not how it ever happeneds cops think they are the law and thier not that is the issue

[gargoyle1701]

you dont have the right to take id or pull the weapon and thats not how it ever happeneds

[btown69]

You guys are right about your rights, but please, quit making each cop appear to be a "gestapo" type cop. Most are just trying to do their jobs and are supporters of gun rights. But you have to remember the types of crimes cops investigate are violent and often with guns. Stop acting holy, and come up with solutions to gang members carrying guns, loonatics shooting people with "guns," and other stuff. What should cops do? Say something, other than that is their problem. Crime is OUR prblm.

[pullnshoot25]

@btown69 There are a lot of good cops. Unfortunately, out of the 5 departments I have dealt with, all of them were assholes to the 10th degree. Therefore, these videos describe what "training and experience" I have had.

[pccchurch]

@btown69

Quit making cops look better than what they are. Every traffic cop I've dealt with was a trigger happy violent psycho. Only ppl who are cops or have friends or family as a cop will use this their "job is so dangerous" excuse. Most Cops joined up cuz they are violent psychos with power trips. Just becuz u have friend or family DOES NOT make UR experience what most citizens experience. Most citizens get abused by the cops at some point in their lives.

These videos are good for citizens

[votefraudnet]

@btown69 the police are given their power to carry guns by the master of those gun rights and that is we the people. No servant has more rights than their master. Why don't you police get that through your thick heads? We have hired you to do a job we don't want to do ourselves, you are an employee of the people and subject to our authority. Make sense to you yet?

[zemogmonster]

@votefraudnet I actually believe in concealed loaded carry, not open un-concealed carry. Votefraudnet, what are your solutions to the gang bangers with guns, and the drug addicts or lunatics out there the cops are suppose to defend the "masters" from. When you say "we," you are talking from people with the same perspective as you. If i dont agree with you, dont I have a right to have the cops enforce laws like I want them to. Am I not one of the "masters" too.

[zemogmonster]

@votefraudnet "subject to your authority." You are apparently the minority in California.  What do you think of the new open carry laws in California? All this discussion will go away in Jan of 2012. It will be illegal to open carry. Hey mister Voterfraudnet, what have you actually done for this country other than benefit from the "servants" of the "masters?"

[pullnshoot25]

@votefraudnet No. They got hired to do a job that is forced upon us through taxation.

[2DJWill1]

About the video, is it legal to carry a different gun other than your own? Such as your sisters (as said in the video), or your dad's?

[iloveloosey101]

WOWOWOWOWOW, WHat a wonderful video guys!! A+++ that was very informative.

THANK YOU AGAIN!

[bikef700]

after watching a few of these, have the police ever found a convicted felon 'open-carrying', I mean like EVER. I did'nt think so.

[bigbret83]

Money makes things easier. Spend a little here and there to keep things going smoothly... that's their thinking. What's 35k settled to you on a 2-20 mil insurance budget? Oh the insurance premium goes up? They'll get it from the council. Council needs more funds? They'll raise taxes. If you haven't noticed, this is the way of the USA. I dont agree with it anymore than you do, but you have to admit, that's the way things work.

[bigbret83]

Apparently I too have a couple posts that never actually posted, obvious one being my answer to "have I carried". To answer that, yes, for many years more than two. As far as the bet, I can't take that, because obviously, I'm not in California. But ask yourself this, if the police there are so incompetent, what makes you think you wont see the inside of a jail? I think, according to your statements, there would be a higher probability of you going to jail if they believe they are right...

[bigbret83]

In all actuality, the comments posted on this very thread may in fact be reviewed by a Supreme Court Judge. Because of your "holier than thou" attitude, I'm sure theres one just itching to pull rank on you. You know they often have a funny way of shutting down "work-arounds"

[elsensei1]

@bigbret83 yep, I knew it...if you're not a cop, you're an even bigger statist of some sort. Nice how you dodge my questions about whether you've ever carried and whether you want to back your mouth with your words. That tells me all I need to know.

[bigbret83]

@elsensei1 1.) You never once asked me to back my mouth with my words... though honestly, that makes absolutely no sense.

2.) Re-read the posts I've made, very early on I answered your question about if I have ever carried.

What this latest post of yours tells me, and everyone else here, is that you just proved yourself an idiot. Thank you for making my point.

[elsensei1]

@bigbret83

You know what? you're right for once. The post I made didn't make it to youtube. So I'll do it again...I'll bet you a thousand dollars that i don't see the inside of a jail cell within the next 12 months. That's a reasonable time for the cops to misapply the "law" as you see it. Put up or shut up. Second, I re-read your drivel and no where did you say that you've ever carried...Not that I could see.

[elsensei1]

@bigbret83 Oh God, big Bret Ward, you are a cop. hilarious. Why didn't you just have the balls to admit it in the first place? Take these comments to your DA over there in independence county and see what he says.

[bigbret83]

You were settled on because the department has "liability claims insurance" for matters such as this. It didn't cost the department money, so they dont care. Settling saves time and their own money. While you see it that you won, they laugh at you. Officers will continue to do their jobs, and they will continue to ID people with the avenue's I've cited. Sure, more cases will be settled, but eventually another Supreme Court ruling will close the lid here, and you'll be right back to square 1

[elsensei1]

@bigbret83 Hate to break it to you, but with the mcdonald and heller decisions, you better get ready for a no-permit armed populace. You won't have to like it, but you'll have to follow the law like everyone else. Maybe being a cop isn't the job you were cut out for. Maybe you could be a game show host instead!

[elsensei1]

riiiight...it doesn't cost them money...except higher insurance premiums because the people enforcing the law don't know the law. Oh well, they may be laughing, but not all the way to the bank like some people.

[bigbret83]

35k sounds like a settlement, not a trial award for a rights violation. Departments won't continue to settle, eventually they will risk the bad publicity and put an end to the idiots who think courts were built to get free money.

[elsensei1]

@bigbret83

it was a settlement, because the city knew they couldn't win. The idiots in this scenario are the guys who forgot their oath to support and defend the constitution. Now I'm starting to think you're a cop. So I'm done. Enjoy your fantasy world. Adios.

[bigbret83]

The black man does not present lethal force, however, should the police arrive to this scene and the black man is carrying a firearm, he may ID him, thus, bringing us back to step 1. Just because you have been spreading this junk on the internet for two years, doesn't mean you have "rank" either. My niece owns a webpage about pokeman, but i doubt she can "pull rank" on a fellow player.

[bigbret83]

There's no speculation here elsenei1. I have cited case law to you, you have given me your "ranking word". You go ahead and keep doing what your doing, and one day, you'll find yourself sitting in jail wondering "what went wrong? I did what they told me to do on the internet!"

[elsensei1]

@bigbret83

You idiot. i'm the guy in the videos doing the telling!

[bigbret83]

You find your work arounds, and the police will find theirs. either way, the old phrase of "pissing off the police" is not good advice in any demeanor.

[elsensei1]

@bigbret83 Again, last time they found a work around it cost them 35 grand. for two hours of my time. I'll do that all day long.

[bigbret83]

What exactly are you pulling rank on; and what have you been doing for two years? The "mere" presence of a gun is a common tool to provide panic, and EVERY state has at least a misdemeanor law against inciting panic. If someone called 911 because this man was carrying a firearm, that is stage 1 panic, and covered under that statute.

[elsensei1]

@bigbret83 look dude, it's obvious you don't know what you're talking about. You're speculating, I'm out there doing it. So I'll just throw the argument to you and keep doing what I'm doing. Some people you just can't teach.

[elsensei1]

Respond to this video... Pulling rank on you, who I bet has never open carried, like I have been for two years. Also inciting panic does not mean someone is panicky of their own volition. Jeez think about it. if some racist idiot gets panicked at the sight of a black man and calls the cops, is the cop gonna arrest the black man? hell no. Some thing with guns. Remember, the 2nd amendment is now a fundamental pre-existing enumerated constitutional right. It doesn't get stronger than that

[bigbret83]

The identification requirement was considered by the U.S. Supreme Court in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004), which held that the identification requirement did not violate the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures. THUS.... If an officer is CALLED TO A SCENE giving him legal reason to be there, and has reason to believe you MAY be committing a crime, He may (and you will be required to provide) ID you. Sorry but Federal > State

[elsensei1]

@bigbret83

Again, has REASON TO BELIEVE, which is not a hunch or, ooh, that guy has tattoos (i don't). It has to be reasonable and articulable.

I have a feeling you are what we refer to as an "armchair quarterback". Have you ever open carried anywhere in public?

[inthehomeland]

@bigbret83 So if Federal > State as you say then stopping ANYONE who is carrying a firearm is a violation "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Infringe: 1. To transgress or exceed the limits of; violate: infringe a contract; infringe a patent. 2. To defeat; invalidate. So ANY law that has ANY thing to do with the keeping or carrying of firearms is invalid and thus not enforceable. Article 4 Clause 2:"This Constitution, ...shall be the supreme law of the land."

[bigbret83]

The authority to detain on reasonable suspicion was established in Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), and does not depend on the existence of a law that specifically authorizes such a detention, so that authority exists in all jurisdictions in the United States.

Read next post...

[elsensei1]

@bigbret83

Look, I don't mean to pull rank on you, but I've been doing this for two years at least. Yes they can detain on reasonable articulable suspicion. And the supreme court has consistently ruled that the mere presence of a gun by itself is NOT RAS. There has to be some other reasonable indication that a crime has been, is being, or is about to be committed before they can demand ID.

[bigbret83]

All the officer's have to do in this situation is get your ID FIRST, before inspecting your firearm. Since you could be commiting a crime, and you ARE in fact armed as the call he responded to suggested, he can ID you first under that order, and then do a 12031 check on your firearm.

[elsensei1]

@bigbret83 @bigbret83. Wrong. California has no "stop and ID" statute. They can compel ID only if you are being accused of a crime. So what I do:

officer: Got ID?

me: Am I under arrest?

officer: No.

me. Then no.

officer: (lying) well, you're going to be.

me: Ok, you tell me when I am and for what, and then I'll provide ID. In the meantime, I want YOUR identification.

[elsensei1]

youtube.com/watch?v=y_lRdkmojV­w

go to :53

[CRJarvis]

any officer that is a nice officer tell them about the Oath keepers.

[daddyoca69]

This is stupid... biggest bunch of bullshit...

[Jacknocoke]

is it true that if your driving is it call concealed?

[u0tube0video0critic]

Preach Brotha. Im forwarding this video to everyone i know

[TheBgcheez]

That's why I wouldn't live in California.

[pullnshoot25]

@TheBgcheez I can kind of agree with that. However, I am here so I have to fight :)

[TheBgcheez]

@pullnshoot25 - I appreciate and support your fight! We have had an influx of wannabe politicians here in my State who are trying as hard as they can to ban weapons that appear assault like in nature. And of course they want to limit magazine capacity on us. They weren't elected in California so they come here peddling their ideas and for the most part they have lost, but like any virus they continue on.

[CaliforniaXlivin]

@pullnshoot25 So when are you guys ganna do videos about what to do and what not to do when cops get you for weed? =)

[eatmytool1]

just out of curiosity...was this an example for san fran. calif? is that why the cop was acting...a little...effeminate??

[pullnshoot25]

@eatmytool1 This is an example of cops in more of the urban areas, like San Diego, San Francisco (BIG TIME) and other such places.

Effeminate? Hardly!

[AWalkWithTheLordWeb]

I live in nevada , i can carry loaded, yep calif needs a attitude enema.

[pullnshoot25]

@AWalkWithTheLordWeb We are working on that. Chicago v. McDonald is just the tip of the enema solution :)

[PersonguydudeWB]

Great video. Thanks for explaining what we are allowed to do(or not do!) during a 12031 check. Nice way to enforce your rights without coming off as an asshole like some other "Don't Tread On Me" types.

[pullnshoot25]

@PersonguydudeWB Thank you, I do try :)

[YllwFvrPB]

Watchin your video again... I just gotta say with the way your laws are out there you guys have a lot of balls to do it. Its not so big a deal here but seems like you can get into a mess of trouble. Cant individual towns restrict carry? How do you know when you travel where you will and will not be legal?

[pullnshoot25]

@YllwFvrPB No, we have state pre-emption. As far as knowing legality, we never know before we check it out and investigate everything thoroughly. The law is designed to screw anyone that likes to think, especially minorities.

[jawbone83]

great vids guys. i really hope this 12031e law gets shot down soon. we dont have as socialist government here in nebraska, however, omaha is trying to go that way. im fighting to change that.

[cheetrman]

Hey guys Great Vids that you'll post very informational. I saw a couple and can't believe that a police officer almost blew your head off for open carry in your car! If you run across a dickhead cop and file a complaint and you feel that the police department is trying to protect their officer by saying that they find no fault what other steps would you recommend in taking!!!!

[TheOrangeRoad]

You can't CC in CA

[pullnshoot25]

Yes you can, it is just a bitch to get a permit. There are a couple situations where CC is permissible sans a permit as well.

[YllwFvrPB]

Good video. Sorry you have to deal with this shit brother. We are fighting the good fight here in Pa, and winning by leaps and bounds. Hopefully the second will be incorporated into the fourteenth soon and your trials will be over. Carry On!

[pullnshoot25]

You PA guys are kicking as and taking names! I've read about some of the Gestapo shit that is going on in your neck of the woods. Good luck to you guys!

[AWD265]

Thanks guys, really great.

Are there any Open Carry meets coming up soon in SoCal - I'd really like to meet the guys and add another body to the cause.

We really have to get back to basics and remember why we came here - to get away from tyranny and that "we are the people" and "they" are our servants - albeit public.

Keep up the good work.

[callihn]

Why go through so much hassle for a worthless unloaded gun?

[l1nuxun1l]

@callihn Protest bad gun laws.

[callihn]

Hell, that would be all of them.

[YllwFvrPB]

Because carrying one is as much your right as the opinion you just posted.

[callihn]

Looks like the right to be harrassed to me, I think I'll stick to CC, an empty gun is as worthless as tits on a boar hog in my opinion and I don't like LE enough that I want to give them more reasons to bother me.

[YllwFvrPB]

California is the only state to require unloaded OC. I carry hot

[callihn]

Yeah, I gathered that, it's good that folks are out there doing so I suppose, I myself like the ideal of OC, but I feel that anyone that carries, OC or CC, should have some training to be able to hang on to their weapon so the wrong person doesn't snatch it, obviously it's a little more important with OC, but everyone has their opinion I'm sure. We don't have OC here, only CC and we have an ID law as well, so we have had to present ID for decades prior and our CC requires us to notify when IDed.

[pullnshoot25]

What state are you in? I am guessing FL or TX but I was not aware that either state had a requirement to notify...

[pullnshoot25]

Good for you.

[daddyoca69]

@YllwFvrPB Way to know the law!  fail....

[YllwFvrPB]

@daddyoca69 in what way

[pullnshoot25]

@YllwFvrPB North Dakota actually requires you to UOC if you don't have a permit. However, they have shall-issue CCW for a very reasonable fee.

[YllwFvrPB]

@pullnshoot25 is there loaded OC with a permit or does that demand you conceal? Thank you, good info to know

[Cslacko]

Thanks for the good info!!

I have a ccw in Texas, but moving to CA soon. This is all new to me.

[cheeple]

Why not answer the question about retention on the belt?

Also why not just provide ID happily?

[sarxhund]

What part of "don;t talk to cops" don't people understand?

The 12031 check is inherently an illegal action and I do not want to help the police in any way conducting the check. I "comply" with lawful orders, I do not "cooperate" with them.

Same thing with ID. I am not legally required to present it and thus I shall not present it. Again, I am NEVER going to cooperate.

[rabbit2110]

because you are waiving your 4th amendment right when you agree for them to take your ID

[YllwFvrPB]

He is not. What will you do fight them to keep your rights intact? You will lose; physically and in court. You say you are complying through threat of force, or "I do not consent, but I will comply". It allows a defense if it goes to court. And record it!

[YllwFvrPB]

with a name like cheeple Im hoping that was a joke. A fools tongue is long enopugh to slit his own throat

[cheeple]

ok Confucious.

[YllwFvrPB]

K'ung-fu-tzu you mean :)

[Sixstringwiley]

So in this particular example of a police officer unlawfully taking your ID and weapon to check them, what is the citizens recourse if any? Can the citizen press charges against the officer or police department? Will the officer be suspended for rights violation? Can the citizen sue the city? What happens next?

PS thank you guys very much for these videos that have helped me understand my rights.. Good Job!

[RexApplegate]

This is an excellent video, and it applies to a lot of open carry situations, not just in California. What you guys are saying about police looking to assert undue power is a universal trait among many bad cops, and it is something that all open carriers should be ready to handle

You'll never know precisely how you'll react until you're in that situation, and every case is different. But what you guys depicted is definitely pretty close to ideal. Great job, and thank you for posting these.