Web Search: "A Comparison Between Christian Doctrine and Mormon Doctrine", and check out one of the many bi-directionally documented comparisons and then decide if Mormon "salvation" versus classical Biblical salvation ("..by grace through faith") doesn't MINIMALLY rate a *fundamentally* "different gospel". LDS's sell an implicitly inept "god" who can't protect "minor" things like the continued integrity of scripture & salvation gospel!!!. Sorry, LDS doctrine is a self-refuting rational mess.
Ok, lemme get this straight: you take issue with biblical scripture and say that it is "mis-interpreted". Yet the rational for the foundation of Mormonism is to restore the gospel (e.g. the Bible is corrupt/not reliable ergo the need for the book of Mormon), and instead of (honestly) saying Gal 1:8 is from a corrupted/unreliable text and therefore non-reliable/relevant, you use biblical scripture in arguments to support the Mormon position?
And about "restored gospel", I'm not continuing a debate here, but just do some research on what books were considered gospel back in the first centuries and why others were not and why the first category were the ones that made it into the modern Bible.
@moltoallegro19 I'm curious how you "tested the Christian faith in a rational way" and how God responded in a "quite convincing" way.
Joseph Smith did a very identical thing: he was incredibly confused about all the conflicting doctrinal banter from the various Christian religions. He read James 1:5 which instructed him to ask God (pray) to find answers.
He went to a grove of trees, started praying, and received a pretty "convincing" response to his prayers. (cont.)
@DrTerminus Doc, we are dealing with a baby christian. I have run across many like this. They become "christian", then think they know enough to make comments on a forum like mine. I guess my long-haired-rock-n-roll look tends to throw them off and make them think that I cannot rationalise or create a cohesive thought.
@M424Filmcast "Baby Christian", that's offensive, and I don't think you can say that you know far more about Bible history than I do, I won't say you don't, because I can't possibly know that. But neither can you. Anyways, from your point of view all I know would probably be incorrect, because that's the nature of your religion and the perspective from which you argue. Up till now I considered this a positive encounter with the mormon faith.
@moltoallegro19 Joseph Smith asked which of the various religions were correct. His answer from God the Father and His Son was this: "all the religious denominations were believing in incorrect doctrines."
Right here, all the complexities, contradictions, and religious debates are dismissed. Jesus Christ Himself declares, as stated in the Doctrine & Covenants: Thus shall my church be called in the last days even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
@moltoallegro19 This declaration certainly would seem absurd to anyone who hasn't done their homework.
Since you're wanting to decline further discussion, I would invite you to check for yourself what Christ's true Church really is all about...for YOURSELF. Read the Book of Mormon and ask God if it is from Him or not; read up on the official Church's website -- lds-dot-org You'll have a completely different opinion after doing so. Thank you very much for your time.
@DrTerminus I don't wanna lay that much time on a faith I'm not interested in. I do read the BoM sometimes, but my heart tells me it's nothing of relevance. I'm instructed by Jesus to believe in Him and repent from my sins, nothing more, to be saved. Why would I need a BoM? I will check out your website, though.
Yeahyeahyeah... bullshit! The text says "any other gospel". That's pretty clear, even if you'd like to believe you can talk your way out of it. Still, the New Testament teaches us all we need to know for salvation, why would there even be a need for a sequel?
@moltoallegro19 Well it's obvious from your comment that you are not at a high enough level of intellect to do anything but cuss at me and be dismissive. So, thanks for your opinion, and thanks for watching...what...the first 30 seconds?
@M424Filmcast Oh, come on! What a pathetique way of invalidating my comment. It's not obvious that I have an unsufficient intellect, nor would I claim it proves I have a rather high one. The comment is quite neutral intellectually since I saw no need for justifying what I wrote, and you condemning my intellect like that based on nothing is just a substitute for intellectually defending your faith.
FYI, I watched the whole video, but I simply don't accept it.
@moltoallegro19 First, I did not invalidate your comment. You attempted to invalidate the information contained in the video with expletives and dismissal without any specific argument. Second, I have no need to defend my faith, I simply enjoy conversation with those who disagree. However, I do expect more from someone than a simple dismissal. Third, if the NT contains all we need to know re: salvation, then why are mainstreamers splintered into 1000's of denominations?
@M424Filmcast There is little discussion on what we need to do to be saved, most denominations disagree on details that doesn't really matter. (Here I speak for my own country) The reason you belong to one church and not another is often only a matter of geography, rather than details in theology. Often opinions differ more between two people of the same parish between a parish and it's neighbour. Believe in Christ, regret your sins and try not doing the. That's the essential.
@moltoallegro19 I absolutely agree that you must believe in Christ, regret (turn away from) your sins, and that this is essential. I do not agree that membership is necessarily about geography however. For example, in most developed countries, religion is relatively free choice. Thus, one may join whatever one feels is right. The question then, is, why so many differences? There are many major differences in theological viewpoints. They most decidedly do not agree.
@moltoallegro19 The question is: If A and B disagree, does that mean they are both right? Either way, this is not a logical argument. This is why it is so important that theological questions not be answered by people with degrees, and by scholars, but by the Lord HImself through living prophets. It has always been, and always will be this way if the Lord is unchangeable (Amos 3:7). Wouldn't you agree?
@moltoallegro19 btw, thanks for the questions, and the civil manner. I apologise for my response earlier. I offer no excuse. I am working on being a little more approachable.
@moltoallegro19 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the modern version of the ancient Church. Prophets function now as they did then in this Church. It is not Catholic, it is not any of the Protestant sects. It stands alone as the Church claimed and owned by the Savior Himself. I would invite you to check out these claims. They're bold, even outlandish. But they are true. You can discover for yourself these truths. Begin by reading the Book of Mormon.
@DrTerminus What I meant by geography is that the churches here in Sweden are pretty similar, even if you live in this town, where there is a baptist church, or in that town, where they have a pentecostal, you see no need to go to the other town because the different protestant denominations agree on all the big matters. "Does the bread and wine literally turn into His blood and flesh or is it just symbolic?", different interpretations in these matters won't make the Lord angry with anyone.
@DrTerminus I do believe prophets may appear at any time, but the Bible is pretty clear on a new gospel. Anyways, Joseph Smith also foresaw Jesus' return by the end of the 19th century, which obviously did not happen, and Deuterunomium clearly says that one who's prophesies turn out to be false is not sent by God. I do haver the BoM, but I - sorry - find it ridiculous, contradictive (with itself, and the Bible) and at some points even racist.
@moltoallegro19 I'm not gonna point out all of these akward verses becaus I know you've probably heard them before and certainly you have explanations for all of them. I just think that the true Church of Jesus Christ (which I believe not to be a specific denomination or a church but a community and fellowship between Christians) wouldn't have so much to explain and need two gospels. The Lord is the same today, yesterday and all days. Why would the basic principles of knowing Him change?
@moltoallegro19 No problem. That is actually pretty common. Most people just repeat what they heard. I can actually give you a lot more information on that, as well as anything else. Just let me know. I do prefer one question at a time though. Helps keep us on track.
@M424Filmcast I'm sorry, I do not like being categorized as one who "just repeats what he's heard". I sincerly believed JS had made such a prophecy - I think I originally read it on Wikipedia - and when I checked wikipedia, they still claim he did. I know they can't always be trusted but I don't think I deserve that lable because I trusted such a source. Still, the source wiki gives for that information seems pretty hard to reject, not claiming anything about what's true here.
@moltoallegro19 I'm not categorising you as one of those people. Just pointing out that many do repeat only what they heard, and present it as "known fact". In this case, wiki is incorrect. The reality is, if you read the entire prophecy, you will note that our critics have taken Joseph's words out of context, and do not quote everything he said in the prophecy. If you would like, I can send you the entire prophecy. It's up to you if you want to know the truth of the matter.
@M424Filmcast No need to, I believe you. Allthough, I stand by the words of the one true gospel; prophets are welcome but no other gospel! There are too many things that need explanation, too many things that contradict with the Bible and too many unconveniences with your church to make this very well defended faith believable. Almost every detail of it has an excuse or needs a loophole to come through as a part of the context. It's a man-made religion, that's why, if you ask me.
@moltoallegro19 I would be willing to answer any question you have in regards to "no new gospel", and "too many things that need explanation...and...that contradict with the Bible...and...too many inconveniences with...the church...to make it believeable. We do not need a loophole to come through anything, or to create context. It is not man-made, but Christ restored. If you are not willing to discuss, you put yourself in a position of believing whatever your told about us.
@moltoallegro19 In other words, knowledge is power. I believe that you came here thinking that I would have no answers, and you found yourself facing a very well informed member of the church. I once was a mainstream christian. So I know where you are coming from. I am quite well versed in why you are making the accusations you are making here. And I will tell you, they are very weak accusations. Any atheist can claim that christianity needs loopholes to explain itself.
@moltoallegro19 They can also claim that there are many contradicions in the Bible, in christianity, and in teachings. They can claim that excuses are all that is made, and that religion is only for the weak and brainwashed. They can also maintain that there are too many inconveniences in christian history to allow it to be true. They also regularly claim that it is man-made. As you can see, these arguments don't stand to those who have faith. They don't work with me either.
1. You're aware of failed prophecies by prophets in the Bible aren't you? Ezekiel and Jeremiah both issued prophecies which did not come to pass. The problem with applying Deut. 18:22 to a single, individual prophecy is that some prophecies can be fulfilled in complex ways or at times much later than anticipated by the hearers. Moreover, God sometimes appears to reverse certain prophecies, as He says He is free to do in Jeremiah 18:7-10.
@moltoallegro19 Next, it is unclear to me: have you sincerely read the Book of Mormon or not? You said "I do haver the BoM" I'm not sure what that means.
@DrTerminus Misstyped, obviously, I do HAVE the BoM, and by that I mean: I have it in my possession, read in it from time to time, allthough I've never read the whole thing through and I certainly wouldn't say I've read all of it. And that the Bible says "no new gospel!", just watch the video above.
@moltoallegro19 In regards to "no new gospel!", exactly what are you referring to? For one, we do not preach a "new gospel", it is very simply the original gospel restored. But I am curious as to which of the verses of the Bible you are referring to. I really hope you're not going to try Deuteronomy 4:2, Deuteronomy 12:32, Proverbs 30:5-6, Revelation 22:18-19 or Galatians 1:6-12. They don't work as proof texts.
@M424Filmcast It's not the original gospel! The original gospel is the books and letters that were used as doctrine by all the Christian parishes in the first centuries and later, in the 4th cuntry, put together to what we today call the New Testament (that's also when you sorted out all the gnostic texts, but that's in history books, for you to read).
And of course I am refering to the first chapter of Galatians, it excludes any other gospel!
@moltoallegro19 It is the original. Do you think the Bible is complete? And in regards to Galatians, again, that does not refer to the gospel being restored. It refers to a different gospel. I have a vid in my uploads that you can check out on the Galatians verses. They don't work against us.
@M424Filmcast Well, the thing is I was not a Christian a year and a half ago, I was one of those hardcore atheists. Once I tested the Christian faith in a rational way, though, God responded (in a quite convincing way). And it's very nice of you to wanna answer all my questions, but I think I'm done here. I think we had a nice discussion at some points, but, with all due respect, I'm even more convinced that your religion is a deluded one, even though you surely is a nice and intelligent person.
@moltoallegro19 Thanks for your time. It seems to me you came here very unprepared, and rather than learn something, you dismiss it with an ad hominem attack on the church. I thank you for the compliment, and thank you for your civility, but, I believe the reason you are done here is not due to a convincing that we are "deluded", but rather because you have no ground to stand on.
@M424Filmcast Maybe partly, but that's because I'm not educated in defending my faith. I still feel I'm right and that the answers I've recieved were not satisfying. I didn't come here looking to argue, this video just poped up as recomended and I clicked it out of curiosity so when I threw myself into this discussion I just pretty much followed my intuition and went on what were (to me!) obvious flaws in your doctrine.
@moltoallegro19 You haven't asked enough questions to receive enough answers. You simply dismissed everything without reasonable argument. Would you care to point out the "obvious flaws"? That is a very generalised comment. Without basis, it fails on it's own.
@M424Filmcast The obvious flaws are the ones you probably handle all the time and know exactly how to respond to, because that's mormonism. You win, not because you're right, but because there is no point to argue from the opponent because you have an answer for every possible attack. You can talk your way out of anything. Good day.
@moltoallegro19 Is that the best you can do? Seriously? Okayyyyy....That has to be the weakest attempt at attack by dismissal, failure to state, poisoning the well, and reductive fallacy that I have come across in a long time.
@M424Filmcast Yes, that's the best I can do! People a lot smarter than I have not been able to destroy your cult, because you're so stubborn and closed-minded and simply wave off all evidence against you as corrupted and false. I'm not gonna waste more time, because that's what it'd be - wasting. I wouldn't come through to you even if I was St Paul himself telling you your "another Gospel of Jesus Christ" had no place among the disciples of Jesus. Good night!
@moltoallegro19 You said "the New Testament teaches us all we need to know for salvation, why would there even be a need for a sequel?" Have you ever read the Book of Mormon, Another Testament of Jesus Christ? The book was brought forth by an uneducated farm boy, Joseph Smith...in about two months' time. The complexities of the book are such that not even a scholar could produce such a work in such a short time. Anyway, the Gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored.
Galatians 1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
@gfscarface13 Wow. Even with a video produced with information produced by numerous scholars and researchers, you still don't get it. Apparently no evidence is enough for you.
@M424Filmcast Just watched the video and I feel bad for you guys.
I bet mormons since kids are Taught how to talk to people out of the Galatians 1:8-9 verses.
Its a Joke, it clearly says any "Angel" "New Gopel", LOL but of course you people are still in denial.
Book of John clearly says Yeshua is God but you say otherwise.
Talk about Revelations, in the Book of Revelations there is no mention about the False Prophet joseph smith, mormons see him as a Judge as well with Yeshua & the Father.
@gfscarface13 FYI, I was not born and raised in the church, and never have I been instructed as to how to answer this accusation you are making. I was born and raised with both Catholic and mainstream Christian beliefs. Second, you obviously did not pay attention to the meaning of "angel" and "gospel". The Book of John only affirms what we teach in re: Yeshua/Jehovah. Finally, we do not by any means see Joseph as Judge. Revelation doesn't mention a lot of things. Doesn't make them impossible.
@conimahoni Christianity is a cult too? I didn't know. Thanks, for letting me know. Im not Catholic though, im a Follower of Yeshua. No religion, but a relationship with Yeshua.
Under a spell of the love of Christ which flows through us, maybe.
Come unto Christ and you too may know the joy in following Him.
I learned a long time ago that you can deny God all you want, but that doesn't make Him go away. What you personally believe about God does not change the nature of God. He is real, and He knows you, and loves you.
The Mormon musician's faith has played a role in both her music and her music-centered life. Her songs are clean, and she would not mind if her mother or niece were to listen to the songs, she says.
"I want to write songs that families can enjoy together, and I want to put on a show that families can watch together," she said.
Smith and her band members attend church on Sundays, which, she admitted, can be hard while touring with another band. They also abide by the Word of Wisdom. . .
Sounds like you are really into some "mainstream" prison....I don't follow any "main stream" religion.... it's all just religion, we all need a Saviour, a Messiah. We don't need one more "mainstream" religion, we need relationship. I have studied the lds "religion" for 35 years, when they called it the mormon church. Now tell me things haven't changed in the "mormon" church in the past 35 years. You ALL scream, "you're condemning me" when YOUR doctrine is challenged with truth. Seek TRUTH..
@romanssix23 Let me guess...Just like all others I challenge, when pushed into a corner you will now claim that you are non-denominational. You claim that all you have to do is believe. Well, Satan believes in Christ, yet is not saved. You refuse to answer doctrinal questions, yet expect me to defend my beliefs. If you have studied the LDS church for so long, why is it that you are using the terminology of someone who has only "studied" from anti-mormon material? You don't know as much (cont.)
@M424Filmcast (cont.) claim to. For one, it has never been called the "mormon church". It has been called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from the beginning. You claim that there have been "changes". I guarantee any "changes" you name will be cut-and-paste from some antimormon website, book or pamphlet. You have not done any serious research. You go to our enemy for information, then claim to know what you're talking about. I'm still waiting on your answers to my questions.
@M424Filmcast And you think Sandra Tanner is some kind of authority on our church? LOL xD
Yeah, and the number of antimormon vids on your channel only prove my point. That is where you have done all your research. Your arguments and questions are straight out of the playbook of someone who believes that biased research is somehow good research. If you put that much effort into studying the history and genesis of the teachings you follow, you might not be so cocky. SEEK TRUTH is right. Seek it.
@M424Filmcast claiming that you guys are the only way to god. bunch of crock! John 14:6- 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.=you notice it did not say the mormon church! HE IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION..CONFUSION IS FROM THE DEVIL..BOTTOM LINE!
@kaitae1 Actually we teach that Jesus the Christ is the only way to God. Before you post anything based on your ASSumptions, or on your preconceived notions, you should make sure you are right. So try again.
@M424Filmcast i'm not in a corner, I'm a Christian, and I have read Joseph smiths writings, and your church doctrine, and history, I think you should too... they were called Mormons. How old are you anyway? Shame.... I'm sure you're a GREAT guy!
@romanssix23 I have read the writings of Joseph, and the church doctrine, and the church history in more detail, and more in-depth than you ever will. You see, I once called myself a christian, and believed as you do. The name "Mormons" has been used by others who do not know where the word comes from. We have always identified ourselves as Latter-day Saints as previously stated. You do not seek the truth about our church. You only seek outside opinions and myths. (cont.)
@M424Filmcast (cont.) If you were seeking truth about our church, you would not be listening to the likes of Sandra Tanner, nor would you seek truth through antimormon resources. You would go to the source. When I want to know about another religion, I go to those who are involved in it. Not to their enemies. You are stuck with preconceived notions that you are unwilling to let go of. Believe what you will. In regards to age, I am older than I appear. Your sarcasm is noted BTW.
@M424Filmcast cut to the chase there is no true running water that flows through that church. you guys are the most unhappy, sensitive, judgemental bible holding fakes on earth. ya really think god is that small that he is going to let man tamper with his words (bible) why would he jus sit back in heaven and allow that? this is the only map and guide that us made out of dirt humans (his children) have to get back home. you cant tamper with his words or map like how you mormons claim
@M424Filmcast bottom line you guys have no evidence to back up any stories in the book of mormon?? the cities that are in the book of mormon god knows where there @. you guys have NO evidence! the bible has tens of thousands evidence backing the bible to be true. what is this lets make a deal? pick and pull what ever you want from the bible? God is not the author of confusion! thou shall not add or take away! mormons another way to be god exactly what satan wanted
@kaitae1 Actually, if you want some evidence, it is abundant. Reading too many antimormon websites? Maybe too many antimormon videos or books? You are making yourself look ignorant.
This video is a complete joke. Mormonism is considered a non-Christian cult by all of Christianity. All you need to do is go to any Christian bookstore and look in the cult section; you will see books on Mormonism there. Now don't get me wrong. They are nice people. The problem isn't with them. It is with what they teach. It simply isn't Christian.
@StandUpForCanada1867 I could care less what the 35,000 different denominations of mainstream christianity think. They cannot even agree with each other on doctrine. They all interpret the Bible so differently, that they have created not only 35,000 versions of Christ's church, but even have gone so far as to create 1000's of different versions of the Bible. So, they can say all they want. All the Pharisees and Saducees called Jesus a cult leader. Did He care? No.
Mormon missionaries will tell you that there was an apostasy and that Joseph Smith was the one who restored the true gospel to this earth. This is a typical claim by every cult. Every one of them says that the present Christian church is false and that their initial leader restored the "truth." They have to invalidate present Christianity in order to get you to accept their brand of it.
@StandUpForCanada1867 Funny, you are saying the same thing to me about my church. You seem to feel the need to invalidate my church to get me to accept your version...or brand. So, when did you join your cult?
(cont...) Christianity teaches that there is only one God. Mormonism teaches that there are many gods. Christianity teaches you cannot become a god. Mormonism says you can. In fact, Mormonism teaches that God used to be a man on another planet who became a god and brought one of his wives with him to this world. In case you doubt this, check out the documentation below which is taken from Mormon writers.
@StandUpForCanada1867 LOLOLOL!!! You should really spend more time learning what we ACTUALLY teach. I can't believe someone who seems so intelligent could possibly believe what was shown in a CARTOON! And the info you are getting from books is no less biased. Think about the MOTIVES of the people who created these things. If you think their only motive was to "save Mormons", think again.
(cont...) 1. The true gospel was lost from the earth. Mormonism is its restoration (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce R. McConkie, p. 635). They teach there was an apostasy and the true church ceased to exist on earth. 2. There are many gods (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163). 3. There is a mother god (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).
@StandUpForCanada1867 Perhaps you could quote the scriptures we follow instead of non-scriptural sources. One of the problems with amateur critics like yourself, is that you think that everything ever written or said by every member of the church is official teaching. The only official teachings of the church are contained in the Bible, the BoM, the D&C, and the PoGP. None of the rest is official teaching. Would you like to explain 35,000 denominations of the biblical UNITED church?
(cont...) 4. God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333). 5. After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354).
@StandUpForCanada1867 Aready answered. Like I said, quote official teachings instead of non-scriptural writings. You may also want to spend some time on the FAIR websites to get answers to your questions.
I also noticed that you did not comment at all on the video itself. So you watched what, 10 seconds? Typical. You came here not with Christlike love, but with the intention of bringing controversy and to make yourself feel better about your beliefs. Too bad....
@M424Filmcast Listen to me, man. I don't read the Book of Mormon, because it is NOT the inspired word of God. Only the Bible is inspired AND NOTHING ELSE (2 Timothy 3:16). The Book of Mormon NOT more correct than the Bible (contrary to what numerous Mormon scholars and missionaries preach). Mormons believe Jesus Christ is the Spirit brother of Satan. Show me where that's found in the Bible??? 90% of all Mormon theology contradicts the Bible. So how can I accept Mormons as Christians?
@StandUpForCanada1867 Why don't you answer my question first? Explain to me over 35,000+ denominations of a so-called "united" church. You say the Bible is the ONLY Word of God. In other words, you believe the Bible to be the final authourity. I say, God is the final authourity, and your scriptural reference does not preclude further scripture. Mormon theology does not contradict the Bible. I don't care whether you accept us as Christians or not. The Jews did not accept Jesus as the Christ.
@M424Filmcast First of all, there aren't 35,000 Christian denominations - that's a gross exaggeration to say the very least. Secondly, if you look at the major ones (Pentecostal, Baptist, Presbyterian, Anglican, Salvation Army, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Calvinism, etc. ), the major differences between these denominations are things such as worship style in services, whether one can lose salvation AFTER they're saved, the big "faith vs. good works" debate, is water baptism necessary, etc.
@StandUpForCanada1867 Actually, yes there are that many. But let's assume for argument's sake that there are only 100. Why are there 100 versions of the 1 gospel of Jesus Christ? Yes, look at the major ones. That's my point. Jesus did not say to create many versions and many disagreements, and many different ways of worship. tell me where THAT is in the Bible. If they are not united, they are not the church described in scripture.
@M424Filmcast So, as I said, yes there are many denominations, but NONE OF THEM USE THE BOOK OF MORMON because it is NOT a recognized or inspired word of God. So now that I've answered your question, it's your turn - you answer mine. Mormons believe Jesus Christ is the Spirit brother of Satan. Show me where that's found in the Bible??? 90% of all Mormon theology contradicts the Bible. So how can I accept Mormons as Christians?
@StandUpForCanada1867 Just because the world does not accept the BoM as inspired, does not make it uninspired. The Creeds of Athanasius, Nicea, etc., were not inspired. Yet, most of christianity believes in them. The leaders of today's multitude of mainstream sects are not inspired, yet, the masses follow. Your accusation of 90% contradiction is ridiculous. There is no contradiction. You only see it that way because that's what you've been told by our critics. (cont.)
@M424Filmcast As I said, I don't care if you accept us as christian or not. Makes no difference to me or any other member of the church. We know who we are. We are followers of Jesus the Christ. The Son of the Living God. The Saviour and Redeemer of ALL mankind, who performed the Unlimited Atonement in Gethsemene, and gave His Life as the Ultimate Sacrifice. That is what defines a christian. According to you, the differences in teachings make no difference. Its about Christ.
@M424Filmcast In answer to your question, you have will not understand anything regarding the teaching of Lucifer/Satan, and his relationship to all things scriptural because you likely believe in the three-headed trinity god of Nicea. Do you know the pagan roots of this teaching? Would you like some references? You call my church a joke. That's fine. I call your three-headed god and your multitude of denominations a joke. Do you really want to know, or do you just want to debate? (cont.)
@M424Filmcast You are not answering questions. You are using accusatory statements and questions that only show your lack of being able to have a discussion. This is typical of those who do not have faith in their own beliefs sufficient to follow those beliefs. Instead, you become critical of others. Your intention is not to convert, but to ridicule. This is why there are multitudes of mainstream christian sects. They cannot agree, so they continue to split.
@M424Filmcast You're starting to sound like a Jehovah's Witness - another Cult Organization who (like the Latter Day Saints) primary goal is to distort the original Biblical Gospel, take Bible verses out of their immediate context to fit their own screwed up theology, and then go around lying to everyone saying that the true gospel was "lost" and Joseph Smith "restored" it. What a load of crap. It's amazing (and sad) how many people are easily fooled by Mormons ... AND Jehovah's Witnesses.
@StandUpForCanada1867 This is another accusatory statement. So right back at ya...You sound just like all the other mainstream cults who say that they are the only ones who have the truth. Yet, you cannot use scripture to show how 1000's of different versions of the Lord's church are what Jesus intended. You claim that we are a cult because we claim truth. I say the same to you. Amazing how many people are fooled by "...every wind of doctrine..." put out by the mainstream. (Sad). Get it yet?
@M424Filmcast LISTEN- In order to justify its aberrant theology, Mormons have undermined the authority and trustworthiness of the Bible. The 8th article of faith from the Mormon Church states, AND I QUOTE "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly." This means that when the Bible contradicts Mormonism, the Bible isn't trustworthy. NO OTHER CHRISTIAN DENOMINATION DOES THIS ... EXCEPT YOU. Who gave Joseph Smith the right to say the BoM is "more correct"?
@StandUpForCanada1867 You are reading too much into the AofF that you are quoting. The Bible is the Word of God. Which translation do you prefer? Why? Are the others all correct? Who decided it is? Is the Bible complete? Who says so? I bet I can show you that it isn't. The differing versions of the Bible do not all say the same thing. Any honest person will admit this. This is what we mean when we say the Bible is the word of God...when translated correctly. Need more? I can show you more.
@M424Filmcast Everything I say goes in one ear and comes right out the other. READ THE BIBLE FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS and stop reading the BoM. I prefer the NIV version. I know Mormons prefer King James. But different Bible versions say the same thing in different ways. For example, "Thou shalt not murder" in King James vs. "You will not kill" in NIV. "Thou", "shalt", and "murder" are replaced with "You", "will", and "kill" respectively. Different wording. SAME COMMANDMENT.
@StandUpForCanada1867 If you think that I am not paying attention, then that is your misunderstanding. I get what you are saying. I know what the Bible is. I will not stop reading the BoM because I know what it is also. Both versions of the Bible do not always say the same thing. I can show you many differences. It's not difficult. Kill and murder are not the same. Murder is a deliberate act. Killing can be done in self-defence. One bad, one not. Get it yet?
@M424Filmcast Yes, the KJV says kill. That is because the original translators translated it that way. John 3:16 does not say the same thing in both versions. One says live forever, the other says eternal life. These are very different things. Even Satan will live forever. But he will not have eternal life. Jesus is the Only Begotten, but He is not God's "one and only" Son. We are all children of God. Sons and Daughters. This is also a reson the AofF says what it does.
@StandUpForCanada1867 Now we return to sarcasm. You know exactly what I meant. It is up to the one interpreting to decide what will be recorded in the written word. This is why the NIV and the KJV do not teach the same thing. You say the Bible is the Bible. I agree, as long as it is translated correctly. I notice you did not address the rest of my comment. Now, do you actually have a comment relating to the video? Or are you stuck in attack mode?
@M424Filmcast Yeah I do have a comment relating to your video. Some people make the choice to believe in the Gospel according to Jesus Christ. Others make the choice to believe in the Gospel according to Joseph Smith. I choose the former. Mormons choose the latter.
I'm done with you. No more comments coming from me.
I choose Jesus Christ. You choose Joseph Smith. We'll see who's correct.
@StandUpForCanada1867 Amazing. You just don't get it. Jesus Christ is the Light, the Life and the Way. Joseph was merely a prophet. I choose Jesus the Christ. But you refuse to see this due to your own preconceived notions. Too bad. I thought you might have the guts to answer my questions.
And btw, your comment has nothing to do with the content of the video. Typical.
@StandUpForCanada1867 M424Filmcast is right. LDS choose Jesus Christ, and know that Joseph Smith was the prophet raised up like Moses spoken of in the Old and New Testament, and fulfilled the verses of scripture that mainstream wannabe christians reject, and have no answer for.
@LDS4Life71 Listen to me - M424Filmcast is wrong ... DEAD wrong, and so are you if you believe him (or her). Want proof? Take 1 hour (JUST ONE HOUR) of your precious time and search for the video titled, "The Bible Vs. The Book Of Mormon (Complete)" It's 1 hour and 6 minutes long. If this video doesn't convince you that the Book of Mormon is a piece of trash (and the The Bible is THE one AND ONLY inspired word of God), then I sincerely don't know what else will.
@StandUpForCanada1867 Holy cow! You again? So why would we watch a video made by someone with the agenda to tear down the Lord's church?
Second, You do understand that videos like that are not made by people who understand the BoM. They are made by people who take select verses of scripture and try to make them look ridiculous. Atheists do this with the Bible.
Third, where exactly does God say that the Bible is His only word, and that it is complete? What about the missing books?
@M424Filmcast Afraid to face the evidence, eh? Joseph Smith predicted that Jesus Christ would return to earth in 1891. THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. According to Deuteronomy 18:22 AND I QUOTE: "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." Therefore, Joseph Smith is a false prophet. Therefore, the LDS Church is NOT CHRISTIAN. It's that simple.
@M424Filmcast Doctrine & Covenants (Section 130), Joseph Smith recorded: "I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following: 'Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter.' "
Since JS was born in 1805, according to the above statement, Jesus should have returned in 1890. HE DIDN'T!
@StandUpForCanada1867 As usual, you did not read the entire section for context. You are only reading a small portion of what he actually said. If the reader will continue further in that passage, you will see how Joseph Smith himself understood the revelation, unfiltered through note-takers or critics who wish to explain his meaning: (cont.)
@StandUpForCanada1867 I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face (D&C :130). The actual content of Joseph's prophecy--if personal opinion can be said to be prophecy--does not occur until the next verse: I believe the coming of the Son of Man will not be any sooner than that time.(D&C 130:17.)
@M424Filmcast Without a doubt, Joseph's belief proved correct. The Lord did not return to the earth for His Second Coming before that time. But there are other aspects of fulfillment that should also be considered. We do not know when it was that the Prophet earnestly prayed to know the time of the Lord's coming. The context, (verse 13), shows that it may have taken place in 1832 or earlier. (cont.)
@StandUpForCanada1867 At least twice, as is recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants, Joseph saw the face of the Son of Man. D&C 76:20-24 and D&C 110:2-10) both record appearances of the Lord Jesus Christ, either of which may constitute fulfillment of the Lord's prophetic promise. He may also have seen the Lord's face at the time of his death in 1844, as he pondered in D&C 130:16. (cont.)
@StandUpForCanada1867 Joseph made reference to the incident on at least two other occasions, and indicated that his belief was not that the Lord would come by the time of his 85th birthday, but rather that the Lord would not come before that time, which of course was a correct prophecy. In the History of the Church: I prophesy in the name of the Lord God, and let it be written--the Son of Man will not come in the clouds of heaven till I am eighty-five years old. (cont.)
@StandUpForCanada1867 Again, Joseph Smith doesn't say the Lord will come then, but that He will not come before that time. The return to his age 85 shows that all these remarks derive from the same interpretation of his somewhat opaque revelation from the Lord, who seems determined to tell his curious prophet nothing further. Later, Joseph Smith again prophesied on the subject of Christ's coming: (cont.)
@StandUpForCanada1867 I also prophesy, in the name of the Lord, that Christ will not come in forty years; and if God ever spoke by my mouth, He will not come in that length of time. Brethren, when you go home, write this down, that it may be remembered. Jesus Christ never did reveal to any man the precise time that He would come. Go and read the scriptures, and you cannot find anything that specifies the exact hour He would come; and all that say so are false teachers. (cont.)
@StandUpForCanada1867 This remark was made on 10 March 1844. It echoes a teaching given through Joseph in the Doctrine and Covenants in March 1831:
And they have done unto the Son of Man even as they listed; and he has taken his power on the right hand of his glory, and now reigneth in the heavens, and will reign till he descends on the earth to put all enemies under his feet, which time is nigh at hand— (cont.)
@StandUpForCanada1867 I, the Lord God, have spoken it; but the hour and the day no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor shall they know until he comes. (D&C 49:6-7). Thus, from the beginning to the end of his ministry, Joseph Smith denied that a man could or would know the date of the second coming of Christ. (Joseph's remarks may have been instigated by the intense interest among religious believers in William Miller's prophecy that Christ would return by 1843.)
@StandUpForCanada1867 If this prophecy is read in its entirety, instead it being an "unfulfilled prophecy" as asserted by the detractors, it actually testifies to the truthfulness of the mission and prophetic stature of the Prophet Joseph Smith. No man knows the exact time the Savior will return, and Joseph Smith never claimed to. In other words, this argument fails when put to the test. Make sure you read completely before trying to argue what you don't know.
@M424Filmcast You can slice it and dice it any way you want. A prophesy is a prophesy is a prophesy. And it didn't come true. Jesus didn't return in 1890. Therefore JS was a false prophet. Therefore the LDS Church is FALSE according to Deuteronomy 18:22. (Oh, but of course, you think the BoM overrides the Bible, so I shouldn't be quoting it)
How am I supposed to accept a bunch of WACKOS from Salt Lake City as so called "Christians" when 95% of LDS theology directly contradicts the Bible?
@StandUpForCanada1867 16 I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face. 17 I believe the coming of the Son of Man will not be any sooner than that time.
It didn't say that Jesus would return at that time
@romanssix23 And which version of the mainstream twisianity do you follow? Baptist? Methodist? Lutheran? Calvinist? Evangelical? Thousands of versions (approximately 35,000), yet they are somehow all correct. Despite the fact that they do not all teach the same thing. So, tell me which part of the video you would like to challenge? Oh, yeah, you only watched the first five seconds and had nothing better to comment with, so you resorted to simplistic garbage....
So do you believe LDS is the only true way. I realize I've already commented on one of you're video's. But by the way you made it sound. It's ridiculous to believe anything but mormanism. Many people think Joseph Smith was of Satan. And though you've quoted the scripture on light and dark canot mix. You've left out the fact about false teachers. It's all Bilical. What you say could backfire from another belief that sounds logical also. Its a vicious circle. Only God reveals truth.
@ItsNowWarfare As a former mainstream christian, yes, I do believe that the church is true. Those who think Joseph was of Satan are simply ignorant of the facts. In regards to your assertions about scriptures and the "backfiring" of my points, would you care to be more specific? I would like to know exactly what your argument is.
In re: "Only God reveals truth", yes. He always reveals truth. That is how I gained my testimony of the truth.
@M424Filmcast You refer to mainstream alot.Have you then ever expierenced TRUE Christianity?I know what mainstream is, its carnal and full of what I call "Sunday" Christians.Dont be decieved that all Christians are miss interpreted though. And that's how you gained it.But the muslim across the room claims he's claimed his too.And so does the Bhudist, and the Hindu.I believe I have gained the Truth.So can BOTH of us be correct? (me and you). Im not attacking you btw.I want to learn about the LDS.
@ItsNowWarfare True christianity is that which follows ALL of what was taught by Christ. I have been involved in many different versions of the type of christianity you are talking about. In regards to Muslims, Bhuddists, etc., they cannot claim truth in Christ. So that argument is pointless. In regards to gaining a testimony, it cannot come from reading scriptures alone. Nor can it come from a personal interpretation. That is why a prophet is necessary. Always has been, always will be.
I think this must be the best response yet to the anti's interpretation of Galatians 1:8. At least it approaches it from a totally differentn angle. May I use it to counter other anti's who try to use it against us?
@lindalds Sorry, I somehow missed your comment! D'oh!! Of course Sister. You are more than welcome to use this information as a counter to the anti's. I myself had some help from other members through collaboration in order to produce this vid in the first place. God Bless and keep the faith! :)
Hi, Mormons midwest ministry surely must be having an impact through the Sprit of Almight God-because never have I seen such LDS vitriol and hatred towards the truth on youtube as I see posted here.
@theminimumdog Vitriol and hatred? That would be coming from ANTI-Mormons. Not from us. That's the problem when we Mormons post the obvious and simple truth, such as this video. Those opposed to the true gospel can think of nothing intelligent to refute it, so they resort to name-calling, and accusations of "vitriol and hatred".
One thing that never ceases to amaze me is the audacity of some ex-Mormons turned anti-Mormons who think that just because they have Pioneer ancestors, they are experts on everything to do with the Church. This perplexes me, especially when it appears obvious that they have been sleeping in Church for years, or they would know more about our basic doctrines. Even those who are BIC, must eventually get their own testimonies. Obviously, some of them didn't.
My friend, I run into this all the time. It is amazing how those who claim to come from pioneer/mormon ancestry feel that way. There are many of them too that will comment on a video, pretending that they are the standard opponents of the church, then when they finally feel as though they have your number, they reveal that they are former members. If they are so sure of themselves, why not just say so right away? Because they know I will call them on their lack of activity, or excommunication.
@arklyn I have read several ex-Mormon "testimonies" and the one overwhelming question that keeps running thru my head is "WHAT church ARE they talking about?" because it SURE isn't the church I joined 31 years ago, as a 21 year old searcher of the most Biblical church.
Ye STIFFNECKED and uncircumcised IN HEART and EARS, YE DO ALWAYS RESIST the HOLY GHOST: as your fathers did, SO DO YE. Which of the PROPHETS have not your fathers PERSECUTED and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have RECIEVED the law BY THE DISPOSTION OF ANGELS, and have NOT KEPT IT
Thanks! It seems that we have someone of the type we were just talking about on a roll right now! NotAMolly1 seems to think that we don't know about our own church! LOL xD
@romanssix23 Perhaps you can tell me rs23, what part of the three-headed god theology of your creed following mainstream christianity is true? It is obvious that you cannot stand against any of what was presented in the video. You likely only watched the first 5 seconds. This of course rendered you unable to do anything but what your kind is capable of...simply attacking, yet never addressing the questions asked. Weak....
Silly antimormon! Didn't you get the point that we are not worshipping a prophet? The point of the video is to show people like you that you cannot use this scripture against us without making yourself look like a dork.
Just for the record, we worship God the Father.
Think next time before you post, and you won't look so ridiculous.
Have you listened to all the words of the song? It is not about worshipping a prophet. If you listen, you will know that it is a song praising God for restoring the gospel through a prophet. Really...at least know what your talking about before you start posting ridiculous comments.
The real question is, can you dispute the facts presented? Or are you just another antimormon who has no idea what they are talking about.
I know the song. We rejoice in his glorious gospel? Hint; the his is not referring to God. It is referring to a pedophile (Joseph Smith Jr), a murderer (Brigham Young) and their oh so charming successors. And the rest of the song is all about being so much better than all those "poor unfortunate souls" who don't have a "living prophet" to guide them.
This exmormon knows the words quite well and finds the song rather sad.
You sound like an ingrate..do you not REALIZE that if it wasn't for the PROPHETS or APOSTLES..we would have no record of the scriptures (The Bible, Book of Mormon, etc)...try freeing yourself from the anti-mormon lies rather than further removing yourself from the little truth and light you still have in you. YOur anger is not justified as are your sins that took you out of the church. "YOU" need to bend to the Lord's will..not the other way around. THis is the TRUTH.
Justin Martyr who in speaking to a Jew called Trypho also PRAISED the PROPHETS throughout his debate with the Jew Trypho. This is just ONe example of the love the Early Christians had for the prophets and apostles..try softening your heart rather than buy into all the lies of anti-mormons...the truth is not found in thier lies. Don't buy into anything you read on-line at FACE VALUE...no excuse - for the Holy Ghost (a GOD of the GODHEAD) will tell you what no man can by HIS power.
NotAMolly1. You don't know the song very well, at all if you think it worships Joseph Smith. The song praises God for sending a new Prophet to open the Dispensation of the Restoration. The whole song praises God! Open your eyes, and shut your mouth, lest you show yourself to be a fool!
What's really sad is that you ex-Mormons pose as experts about the Church, when it is so obvious you probably never even had a testimony! Then you base your beliefs on anti-Mormon web sites and tracts.
We do not "worship Joseph Smith". We venerate him like any other people do with the prophets of the Bible. We can go into any Chrsitian church and in thier Sunday Schools or service where they read/hear/talk of PROPHETS. The stories of Daniel, Moses, John the Baptist, etc.
AS a MATTER of "FACT" we see how important "PROPHETS" are to the Jews to this day. They venerate them so much so that they are no different than the Christians of the first 3 centuries who did the same.
Web Search: "A Comparison Between Christian Doctrine and Mormon Doctrine", and check out one of the many bi-directionally documented comparisons and then decide if Mormon "salvation" versus classical Biblical salvation ("..by grace through faith") doesn't MINIMALLY rate a *fundamentally* "different gospel". LDS's sell an implicitly inept "god" who can't protect "minor" things like the continued integrity of scripture & salvation gospel!!!. Sorry, LDS doctrine is a self-refuting rational mess.
sholcomb61 1 week ago
@sholcomb61 It's nice that you have an opinion. Thanks for watching.
M424Filmcast 1 week ago
Ok, lemme get this straight: you take issue with biblical scripture and say that it is "mis-interpreted". Yet the rational for the foundation of Mormonism is to restore the gospel (e.g. the Bible is corrupt/not reliable ergo the need for the book of Mormon), and instead of (honestly) saying Gal 1:8 is from a corrupted/unreliable text and therefore non-reliable/relevant, you use biblical scripture in arguments to support the Mormon position?
sholcomb61 1 week ago
And about "restored gospel", I'm not continuing a debate here, but just do some research on what books were considered gospel back in the first centuries and why others were not and why the first category were the ones that made it into the modern Bible.
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 I'm curious how you "tested the Christian faith in a rational way" and how God responded in a "quite convincing" way.
Joseph Smith did a very identical thing: he was incredibly confused about all the conflicting doctrinal banter from the various Christian religions. He read James 1:5 which instructed him to ask God (pray) to find answers.
He went to a grove of trees, started praying, and received a pretty "convincing" response to his prayers. (cont.)
DrTerminus 1 month ago
@DrTerminus Doc, we are dealing with a baby christian. I have run across many like this. They become "christian", then think they know enough to make comments on a forum like mine. I guess my long-haired-rock-n-roll look tends to throw them off and make them think that I cannot rationalise or create a cohesive thought.
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@M424Filmcast "Baby Christian", that's offensive, and I don't think you can say that you know far more about Bible history than I do, I won't say you don't, because I can't possibly know that. But neither can you. Anyways, from your point of view all I know would probably be incorrect, because that's the nature of your religion and the perspective from which you argue. Up till now I considered this a positive encounter with the mormon faith.
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 I have researched this very deeply. I guarantee I know far more about the history of the Bible than you do.
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 Joseph Smith asked which of the various religions were correct. His answer from God the Father and His Son was this: "all the religious denominations were believing in incorrect doctrines."
Right here, all the complexities, contradictions, and religious debates are dismissed. Jesus Christ Himself declares, as stated in the Doctrine & Covenants: Thus shall my church be called in the last days even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
cont...
DrTerminus 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 This declaration certainly would seem absurd to anyone who hasn't done their homework.
Since you're wanting to decline further discussion, I would invite you to check for yourself what Christ's true Church really is all about...for YOURSELF. Read the Book of Mormon and ask God if it is from Him or not; read up on the official Church's website -- lds-dot-org You'll have a completely different opinion after doing so. Thank you very much for your time.
DrTerminus 1 month ago
@DrTerminus I don't wanna lay that much time on a faith I'm not interested in. I do read the BoM sometimes, but my heart tells me it's nothing of relevance. I'm instructed by Jesus to believe in Him and repent from my sins, nothing more, to be saved. Why would I need a BoM? I will check out your website, though.
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
Yeahyeahyeah... bullshit! The text says "any other gospel". That's pretty clear, even if you'd like to believe you can talk your way out of it. Still, the New Testament teaches us all we need to know for salvation, why would there even be a need for a sequel?
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 Well it's obvious from your comment that you are not at a high enough level of intellect to do anything but cuss at me and be dismissive. So, thanks for your opinion, and thanks for watching...what...the first 30 seconds?
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@M424Filmcast Oh, come on! What a pathetique way of invalidating my comment. It's not obvious that I have an unsufficient intellect, nor would I claim it proves I have a rather high one. The comment is quite neutral intellectually since I saw no need for justifying what I wrote, and you condemning my intellect like that based on nothing is just a substitute for intellectually defending your faith.
FYI, I watched the whole video, but I simply don't accept it.
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 First, I did not invalidate your comment. You attempted to invalidate the information contained in the video with expletives and dismissal without any specific argument. Second, I have no need to defend my faith, I simply enjoy conversation with those who disagree. However, I do expect more from someone than a simple dismissal. Third, if the NT contains all we need to know re: salvation, then why are mainstreamers splintered into 1000's of denominations?
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@M424Filmcast There is little discussion on what we need to do to be saved, most denominations disagree on details that doesn't really matter. (Here I speak for my own country) The reason you belong to one church and not another is often only a matter of geography, rather than details in theology. Often opinions differ more between two people of the same parish between a parish and it's neighbour. Believe in Christ, regret your sins and try not doing the. That's the essential.
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 I absolutely agree that you must believe in Christ, regret (turn away from) your sins, and that this is essential. I do not agree that membership is necessarily about geography however. For example, in most developed countries, religion is relatively free choice. Thus, one may join whatever one feels is right. The question then, is, why so many differences? There are many major differences in theological viewpoints. They most decidedly do not agree.
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@M424Filmcast Even if that wouldn't include all churches (I know it doesn't); if A and B disagree does that mean they both are wrong?
And I obviously meant to say ".. try not doing them." in the second last sentence of my previous post.
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 The question is: If A and B disagree, does that mean they are both right? Either way, this is not a logical argument. This is why it is so important that theological questions not be answered by people with degrees, and by scholars, but by the Lord HImself through living prophets. It has always been, and always will be this way if the Lord is unchangeable (Amos 3:7). Wouldn't you agree?
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 btw, thanks for the questions, and the civil manner. I apologise for my response earlier. I offer no excuse. I am working on being a little more approachable.
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the modern version of the ancient Church. Prophets function now as they did then in this Church. It is not Catholic, it is not any of the Protestant sects. It stands alone as the Church claimed and owned by the Savior Himself. I would invite you to check out these claims. They're bold, even outlandish. But they are true. You can discover for yourself these truths. Begin by reading the Book of Mormon.
DrTerminus 1 month ago
@DrTerminus What I meant by geography is that the churches here in Sweden are pretty similar, even if you live in this town, where there is a baptist church, or in that town, where they have a pentecostal, you see no need to go to the other town because the different protestant denominations agree on all the big matters. "Does the bread and wine literally turn into His blood and flesh or is it just symbolic?", different interpretations in these matters won't make the Lord angry with anyone.
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@DrTerminus I do believe prophets may appear at any time, but the Bible is pretty clear on a new gospel. Anyways, Joseph Smith also foresaw Jesus' return by the end of the 19th century, which obviously did not happen, and Deuterunomium clearly says that one who's prophesies turn out to be false is not sent by God. I do haver the BoM, but I - sorry - find it ridiculous, contradictive (with itself, and the Bible) and at some points even racist.
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 I'm not gonna point out all of these akward verses becaus I know you've probably heard them before and certainly you have explanations for all of them. I just think that the true Church of Jesus Christ (which I believe not to be a specific denomination or a church but a community and fellowship between Christians) wouldn't have so much to explain and need two gospels. The Lord is the same today, yesterday and all days. Why would the basic principles of knowing Him change?
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 Joseph never made any such claim. This is an old argument that has been debunked for quite some time.
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@M424Filmcast I'm sorry, I did not know that. Just saying what I've heard.
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 No problem. That is actually pretty common. Most people just repeat what they heard. I can actually give you a lot more information on that, as well as anything else. Just let me know. I do prefer one question at a time though. Helps keep us on track.
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@M424Filmcast I'm sorry, I do not like being categorized as one who "just repeats what he's heard". I sincerly believed JS had made such a prophecy - I think I originally read it on Wikipedia - and when I checked wikipedia, they still claim he did. I know they can't always be trusted but I don't think I deserve that lable because I trusted such a source. Still, the source wiki gives for that information seems pretty hard to reject, not claiming anything about what's true here.
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 I'm not categorising you as one of those people. Just pointing out that many do repeat only what they heard, and present it as "known fact". In this case, wiki is incorrect. The reality is, if you read the entire prophecy, you will note that our critics have taken Joseph's words out of context, and do not quote everything he said in the prophecy. If you would like, I can send you the entire prophecy. It's up to you if you want to know the truth of the matter.
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@M424Filmcast No need to, I believe you. Allthough, I stand by the words of the one true gospel; prophets are welcome but no other gospel! There are too many things that need explanation, too many things that contradict with the Bible and too many unconveniences with your church to make this very well defended faith believable. Almost every detail of it has an excuse or needs a loophole to come through as a part of the context. It's a man-made religion, that's why, if you ask me.
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 I would be willing to answer any question you have in regards to "no new gospel", and "too many things that need explanation...and...that contradict with the Bible...and...too many inconveniences with...the church...to make it believeable. We do not need a loophole to come through anything, or to create context. It is not man-made, but Christ restored. If you are not willing to discuss, you put yourself in a position of believing whatever your told about us.
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 In other words, knowledge is power. I believe that you came here thinking that I would have no answers, and you found yourself facing a very well informed member of the church. I once was a mainstream christian. So I know where you are coming from. I am quite well versed in why you are making the accusations you are making here. And I will tell you, they are very weak accusations. Any atheist can claim that christianity needs loopholes to explain itself.
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 They can also claim that there are many contradicions in the Bible, in christianity, and in teachings. They can claim that excuses are all that is made, and that religion is only for the weak and brainwashed. They can also maintain that there are too many inconveniences in christian history to allow it to be true. They also regularly claim that it is man-made. As you can see, these arguments don't stand to those who have faith. They don't work with me either.
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19
1. You're aware of failed prophecies by prophets in the Bible aren't you? Ezekiel and Jeremiah both issued prophecies which did not come to pass. The problem with applying Deut. 18:22 to a single, individual prophecy is that some prophecies can be fulfilled in complex ways or at times much later than anticipated by the hearers. Moreover, God sometimes appears to reverse certain prophecies, as He says He is free to do in Jeremiah 18:7-10.
DrTerminus 1 month ago
@DrTerminus Thanks for covering this issue Doc. That was my next step. You saved me some typing. LOL
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 Next, it is unclear to me: have you sincerely read the Book of Mormon or not? You said "I do haver the BoM" I'm not sure what that means.
DrTerminus 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 And finally the last point you bring up: "the Bible is pretty clear on a new gospel."
What is your source on that?
Thank you.
DrTerminus 1 month ago
@DrTerminus Misstyped, obviously, I do HAVE the BoM, and by that I mean: I have it in my possession, read in it from time to time, allthough I've never read the whole thing through and I certainly wouldn't say I've read all of it. And that the Bible says "no new gospel!", just watch the video above.
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 In regards to "no new gospel!", exactly what are you referring to? For one, we do not preach a "new gospel", it is very simply the original gospel restored. But I am curious as to which of the verses of the Bible you are referring to. I really hope you're not going to try Deuteronomy 4:2, Deuteronomy 12:32, Proverbs 30:5-6, Revelation 22:18-19 or Galatians 1:6-12. They don't work as proof texts.
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@M424Filmcast It's not the original gospel! The original gospel is the books and letters that were used as doctrine by all the Christian parishes in the first centuries and later, in the 4th cuntry, put together to what we today call the New Testament (that's also when you sorted out all the gnostic texts, but that's in history books, for you to read).
And of course I am refering to the first chapter of Galatians, it excludes any other gospel!
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 It is the original. Do you think the Bible is complete? And in regards to Galatians, again, that does not refer to the gospel being restored. It refers to a different gospel. I have a vid in my uploads that you can check out on the Galatians verses. They don't work against us.
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@M424Filmcast Sorry, I just remembered that we are talking about that very video. LOL....But yeah, this verse doesn't work against us.
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@M424Filmcast Well, the thing is I was not a Christian a year and a half ago, I was one of those hardcore atheists. Once I tested the Christian faith in a rational way, though, God responded (in a quite convincing way). And it's very nice of you to wanna answer all my questions, but I think I'm done here. I think we had a nice discussion at some points, but, with all due respect, I'm even more convinced that your religion is a deluded one, even though you surely is a nice and intelligent person.
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 Thanks for your time. It seems to me you came here very unprepared, and rather than learn something, you dismiss it with an ad hominem attack on the church. I thank you for the compliment, and thank you for your civility, but, I believe the reason you are done here is not due to a convincing that we are "deluded", but rather because you have no ground to stand on.
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@M424Filmcast Maybe partly, but that's because I'm not educated in defending my faith. I still feel I'm right and that the answers I've recieved were not satisfying. I didn't come here looking to argue, this video just poped up as recomended and I clicked it out of curiosity so when I threw myself into this discussion I just pretty much followed my intuition and went on what were (to me!) obvious flaws in your doctrine.
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 You haven't asked enough questions to receive enough answers. You simply dismissed everything without reasonable argument. Would you care to point out the "obvious flaws"? That is a very generalised comment. Without basis, it fails on it's own.
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@M424Filmcast The obvious flaws are the ones you probably handle all the time and know exactly how to respond to, because that's mormonism. You win, not because you're right, but because there is no point to argue from the opponent because you have an answer for every possible attack. You can talk your way out of anything. Good day.
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 Is that the best you can do? Seriously? Okayyyyy....That has to be the weakest attempt at attack by dismissal, failure to state, poisoning the well, and reductive fallacy that I have come across in a long time.
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@M424Filmcast Yes, that's the best I can do! People a lot smarter than I have not been able to destroy your cult, because you're so stubborn and closed-minded and simply wave off all evidence against you as corrupted and false. I'm not gonna waste more time, because that's what it'd be - wasting. I wouldn't come through to you even if I was St Paul himself telling you your "another Gospel of Jesus Christ" had no place among the disciples of Jesus. Good night!
moltoallegro19 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 Ummm....that was weak...some people's children....Lolz
You have no evidence against us. And now you are attempting an argument by vehemence, and astonishment. Are you for real?
M424Filmcast 1 month ago
@moltoallegro19 You said "the New Testament teaches us all we need to know for salvation, why would there even be a need for a sequel?" Have you ever read the Book of Mormon, Another Testament of Jesus Christ? The book was brought forth by an uneducated farm boy, Joseph Smith...in about two months' time. The complexities of the book are such that not even a scholar could produce such a work in such a short time. Anyway, the Gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored.
DrTerminus 1 month ago
Galatians 1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
gfscarface13 3 months ago 3
@gfscarface13 Wow. Even with a video produced with information produced by numerous scholars and researchers, you still don't get it. Apparently no evidence is enough for you.
M424Filmcast 3 months ago
@M424Filmcast Just watched the video and I feel bad for you guys.
I bet mormons since kids are Taught how to talk to people out of the Galatians 1:8-9 verses.
Its a Joke, it clearly says any "Angel" "New Gopel", LOL but of course you people are still in denial.
Book of John clearly says Yeshua is God but you say otherwise.
Talk about Revelations, in the Book of Revelations there is no mention about the False Prophet joseph smith, mormons see him as a Judge as well with Yeshua & the Father.
gfscarface13 3 months ago 3
@gfscarface13 FYI, I was not born and raised in the church, and never have I been instructed as to how to answer this accusation you are making. I was born and raised with both Catholic and mainstream Christian beliefs. Second, you obviously did not pay attention to the meaning of "angel" and "gospel". The Book of John only affirms what we teach in re: Yeshua/Jehovah. Finally, we do not by any means see Joseph as Judge. Revelation doesn't mention a lot of things. Doesn't make them impossible.
M424Filmcast 3 months ago
I feel sorry for mormons. Sad Cult they're in. They defend it so much they dont realiaze they're in a cult.
Its like these mormons are under a spell or something.
gfscarface13 9 months ago 4
@gfscarface13 Christianity is a cult of Judaism too.altered and changed by roman church.
conimahoni 7 months ago
Comment removed
gfscarface13 7 months ago
@conimahoni Christianity is a cult too? I didn't know. Thanks, for letting me know. Im not Catholic though, im a Follower of Yeshua. No religion, but a relationship with Yeshua.
gfscarface13 7 months ago
@gfscarface13 What's really sad is someone commenting on something they don't know anything about. Weak.
M424Filmcast 4 months ago
@gfscarface13
"Sad cult"??? ..."Under a spell..."???
Under a spell of the love of Christ which flows through us, maybe.
Come unto Christ and you too may know the joy in following Him.
I learned a long time ago that you can deny God all you want, but that doesn't make Him go away. What you personally believe about God does not change the nature of God. He is real, and He knows you, and loves you.
TheOriginalAnalogKid 1 month ago
@gfscarface13 I feel sad for people like you who feel the need to live in ignorance,and try to bring faiths down,go away troll!
getdownto311 3 weeks ago
TORONTO -- Meaghan Smith, an LDS singer from Canada, has been honored with a Juno Award.
At the March 27 presentation, Smith was awarded the Juno, Canada's equivalent to a Grammy, for Best New Artist.
omiolo 9 months ago
The Mormon musician's faith has played a role in both her music and her music-centered life. Her songs are clean, and she would not mind if her mother or niece were to listen to the songs, she says.
"I want to write songs that families can enjoy together, and I want to put on a show that families can watch together," she said.
Smith and her band members attend church on Sundays, which, she admitted, can be hard while touring with another band. They also abide by the Word of Wisdom. . .
omiolo 9 months ago
Do you read the Joseph Smith translation of the bible?
romanssix23 1 year ago
Sounds like you are really into some "mainstream" prison....I don't follow any "main stream" religion.... it's all just religion, we all need a Saviour, a Messiah. We don't need one more "mainstream" religion, we need relationship. I have studied the lds "religion" for 35 years, when they called it the mormon church. Now tell me things haven't changed in the "mormon" church in the past 35 years. You ALL scream, "you're condemning me" when YOUR doctrine is challenged with truth. Seek TRUTH..
romanssix23 1 year ago
@romanssix23 Let me guess...Just like all others I challenge, when pushed into a corner you will now claim that you are non-denominational. You claim that all you have to do is believe. Well, Satan believes in Christ, yet is not saved. You refuse to answer doctrinal questions, yet expect me to defend my beliefs. If you have studied the LDS church for so long, why is it that you are using the terminology of someone who has only "studied" from anti-mormon material? You don't know as much (cont.)
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast (cont.) claim to. For one, it has never been called the "mormon church". It has been called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from the beginning. You claim that there have been "changes". I guarantee any "changes" you name will be cut-and-paste from some antimormon website, book or pamphlet. You have not done any serious research. You go to our enemy for information, then claim to know what you're talking about. I'm still waiting on your answers to my questions.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast And you think Sandra Tanner is some kind of authority on our church? LOL xD
Yeah, and the number of antimormon vids on your channel only prove my point. That is where you have done all your research. Your arguments and questions are straight out of the playbook of someone who believes that biased research is somehow good research. If you put that much effort into studying the history and genesis of the teachings you follow, you might not be so cocky. SEEK TRUTH is right. Seek it.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast claiming that you guys are the only way to god. bunch of crock! John 14:6- 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.=you notice it did not say the mormon church! HE IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION..CONFUSION IS FROM THE DEVIL..BOTTOM LINE!
kaitae1 1 year ago
@kaitae1 Actually we teach that Jesus the Christ is the only way to God. Before you post anything based on your ASSumptions, or on your preconceived notions, you should make sure you are right. So try again.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast i'm not in a corner, I'm a Christian, and I have read Joseph smiths writings, and your church doctrine, and history, I think you should too... they were called Mormons. How old are you anyway? Shame.... I'm sure you're a GREAT guy!
romanssix23 1 year ago
@romanssix23 I have read the writings of Joseph, and the church doctrine, and the church history in more detail, and more in-depth than you ever will. You see, I once called myself a christian, and believed as you do. The name "Mormons" has been used by others who do not know where the word comes from. We have always identified ourselves as Latter-day Saints as previously stated. You do not seek the truth about our church. You only seek outside opinions and myths. (cont.)
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast (cont.) If you were seeking truth about our church, you would not be listening to the likes of Sandra Tanner, nor would you seek truth through antimormon resources. You would go to the source. When I want to know about another religion, I go to those who are involved in it. Not to their enemies. You are stuck with preconceived notions that you are unwilling to let go of. Believe what you will. In regards to age, I am older than I appear. Your sarcasm is noted BTW.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast cut to the chase there is no true running water that flows through that church. you guys are the most unhappy, sensitive, judgemental bible holding fakes on earth. ya really think god is that small that he is going to let man tamper with his words (bible) why would he jus sit back in heaven and allow that? this is the only map and guide that us made out of dirt humans (his children) have to get back home. you cant tamper with his words or map like how you mormons claim
kaitae1 1 year ago
@kaitae1 You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. So, get over yourself and learn something before posting something so ridiculous.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast bottom line you guys have no evidence to back up any stories in the book of mormon?? the cities that are in the book of mormon god knows where there @. you guys have NO evidence! the bible has tens of thousands evidence backing the bible to be true. what is this lets make a deal? pick and pull what ever you want from the bible? God is not the author of confusion! thou shall not add or take away! mormons another way to be god exactly what satan wanted
kaitae1 1 year ago
@kaitae1 Actually, if you want some evidence, it is abundant. Reading too many antimormon websites? Maybe too many antimormon videos or books? You are making yourself look ignorant.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
This video is a complete joke. Mormonism is considered a non-Christian cult by all of Christianity. All you need to do is go to any Christian bookstore and look in the cult section; you will see books on Mormonism there. Now don't get me wrong. They are nice people. The problem isn't with them. It is with what they teach. It simply isn't Christian.
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 I could care less what the 35,000 different denominations of mainstream christianity think. They cannot even agree with each other on doctrine. They all interpret the Bible so differently, that they have created not only 35,000 versions of Christ's church, but even have gone so far as to create 1000's of different versions of the Bible. So, they can say all they want. All the Pharisees and Saducees called Jesus a cult leader. Did He care? No.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
Mormon missionaries will tell you that there was an apostasy and that Joseph Smith was the one who restored the true gospel to this earth. This is a typical claim by every cult. Every one of them says that the present Christian church is false and that their initial leader restored the "truth." They have to invalidate present Christianity in order to get you to accept their brand of it.
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 Funny, you are saying the same thing to me about my church. You seem to feel the need to invalidate my church to get me to accept your version...or brand. So, when did you join your cult?
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
(cont...) Christianity teaches that there is only one God. Mormonism teaches that there are many gods. Christianity teaches you cannot become a god. Mormonism says you can. In fact, Mormonism teaches that God used to be a man on another planet who became a god and brought one of his wives with him to this world. In case you doubt this, check out the documentation below which is taken from Mormon writers.
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 LOLOLOL!!! You should really spend more time learning what we ACTUALLY teach. I can't believe someone who seems so intelligent could possibly believe what was shown in a CARTOON! And the info you are getting from books is no less biased. Think about the MOTIVES of the people who created these things. If you think their only motive was to "save Mormons", think again.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
(cont...) 1. The true gospel was lost from the earth. Mormonism is its restoration (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce R. McConkie, p. 635). They teach there was an apostasy and the true church ceased to exist on earth. 2. There are many gods (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163). 3. There is a mother god (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 Perhaps you could quote the scriptures we follow instead of non-scriptural sources. One of the problems with amateur critics like yourself, is that you think that everything ever written or said by every member of the church is official teaching. The only official teachings of the church are contained in the Bible, the BoM, the D&C, and the PoGP. None of the rest is official teaching. Would you like to explain 35,000 denominations of the biblical UNITED church?
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
(cont...) 4. God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333). 5. After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354).
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 Aready answered. Like I said, quote official teachings instead of non-scriptural writings. You may also want to spend some time on the FAIR websites to get answers to your questions.
I also noticed that you did not comment at all on the video itself. So you watched what, 10 seconds? Typical. You came here not with Christlike love, but with the intention of bringing controversy and to make yourself feel better about your beliefs. Too bad....
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast Listen to me, man. I don't read the Book of Mormon, because it is NOT the inspired word of God. Only the Bible is inspired AND NOTHING ELSE (2 Timothy 3:16). The Book of Mormon NOT more correct than the Bible (contrary to what numerous Mormon scholars and missionaries preach). Mormons believe Jesus Christ is the Spirit brother of Satan. Show me where that's found in the Bible??? 90% of all Mormon theology contradicts the Bible. So how can I accept Mormons as Christians?
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 Why don't you answer my question first? Explain to me over 35,000+ denominations of a so-called "united" church. You say the Bible is the ONLY Word of God. In other words, you believe the Bible to be the final authourity. I say, God is the final authourity, and your scriptural reference does not preclude further scripture. Mormon theology does not contradict the Bible. I don't care whether you accept us as Christians or not. The Jews did not accept Jesus as the Christ.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast First of all, there aren't 35,000 Christian denominations - that's a gross exaggeration to say the very least. Secondly, if you look at the major ones (Pentecostal, Baptist, Presbyterian, Anglican, Salvation Army, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Calvinism, etc. ), the major differences between these denominations are things such as worship style in services, whether one can lose salvation AFTER they're saved, the big "faith vs. good works" debate, is water baptism necessary, etc.
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 Actually, yes there are that many. But let's assume for argument's sake that there are only 100. Why are there 100 versions of the 1 gospel of Jesus Christ? Yes, look at the major ones. That's my point. Jesus did not say to create many versions and many disagreements, and many different ways of worship. tell me where THAT is in the Bible. If they are not united, they are not the church described in scripture.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
Comment removed
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast So, as I said, yes there are many denominations, but NONE OF THEM USE THE BOOK OF MORMON because it is NOT a recognized or inspired word of God. So now that I've answered your question, it's your turn - you answer mine. Mormons believe Jesus Christ is the Spirit brother of Satan. Show me where that's found in the Bible??? 90% of all Mormon theology contradicts the Bible. So how can I accept Mormons as Christians?
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 Just because the world does not accept the BoM as inspired, does not make it uninspired. The Creeds of Athanasius, Nicea, etc., were not inspired. Yet, most of christianity believes in them. The leaders of today's multitude of mainstream sects are not inspired, yet, the masses follow. Your accusation of 90% contradiction is ridiculous. There is no contradiction. You only see it that way because that's what you've been told by our critics. (cont.)
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast As I said, I don't care if you accept us as christian or not. Makes no difference to me or any other member of the church. We know who we are. We are followers of Jesus the Christ. The Son of the Living God. The Saviour and Redeemer of ALL mankind, who performed the Unlimited Atonement in Gethsemene, and gave His Life as the Ultimate Sacrifice. That is what defines a christian. According to you, the differences in teachings make no difference. Its about Christ.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast In answer to your question, you have will not understand anything regarding the teaching of Lucifer/Satan, and his relationship to all things scriptural because you likely believe in the three-headed trinity god of Nicea. Do you know the pagan roots of this teaching? Would you like some references? You call my church a joke. That's fine. I call your three-headed god and your multitude of denominations a joke. Do you really want to know, or do you just want to debate? (cont.)
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast You are not answering questions. You are using accusatory statements and questions that only show your lack of being able to have a discussion. This is typical of those who do not have faith in their own beliefs sufficient to follow those beliefs. Instead, you become critical of others. Your intention is not to convert, but to ridicule. This is why there are multitudes of mainstream christian sects. They cannot agree, so they continue to split.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast You're starting to sound like a Jehovah's Witness - another Cult Organization who (like the Latter Day Saints) primary goal is to distort the original Biblical Gospel, take Bible verses out of their immediate context to fit their own screwed up theology, and then go around lying to everyone saying that the true gospel was "lost" and Joseph Smith "restored" it. What a load of crap. It's amazing (and sad) how many people are easily fooled by Mormons ... AND Jehovah's Witnesses.
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 This is another accusatory statement. So right back at ya...You sound just like all the other mainstream cults who say that they are the only ones who have the truth. Yet, you cannot use scripture to show how 1000's of different versions of the Lord's church are what Jesus intended. You claim that we are a cult because we claim truth. I say the same to you. Amazing how many people are fooled by "...every wind of doctrine..." put out by the mainstream. (Sad). Get it yet?
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast LISTEN- In order to justify its aberrant theology, Mormons have undermined the authority and trustworthiness of the Bible. The 8th article of faith from the Mormon Church states, AND I QUOTE "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly." This means that when the Bible contradicts Mormonism, the Bible isn't trustworthy. NO OTHER CHRISTIAN DENOMINATION DOES THIS ... EXCEPT YOU. Who gave Joseph Smith the right to say the BoM is "more correct"?
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 You are reading too much into the AofF that you are quoting. The Bible is the Word of God. Which translation do you prefer? Why? Are the others all correct? Who decided it is? Is the Bible complete? Who says so? I bet I can show you that it isn't. The differing versions of the Bible do not all say the same thing. Any honest person will admit this. This is what we mean when we say the Bible is the word of God...when translated correctly. Need more? I can show you more.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast Everything I say goes in one ear and comes right out the other. READ THE BIBLE FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS and stop reading the BoM. I prefer the NIV version. I know Mormons prefer King James. But different Bible versions say the same thing in different ways. For example, "Thou shalt not murder" in King James vs. "You will not kill" in NIV. "Thou", "shalt", and "murder" are replaced with "You", "will", and "kill" respectively. Different wording. SAME COMMANDMENT.
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 If you think that I am not paying attention, then that is your misunderstanding. I get what you are saying. I know what the Bible is. I will not stop reading the BoM because I know what it is also. Both versions of the Bible do not always say the same thing. I can show you many differences. It's not difficult. Kill and murder are not the same. Murder is a deliberate act. Killing can be done in self-defence. One bad, one not. Get it yet?
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast Yes, the KJV says kill. That is because the original translators translated it that way. John 3:16 does not say the same thing in both versions. One says live forever, the other says eternal life. These are very different things. Even Satan will live forever. But he will not have eternal life. Jesus is the Only Begotten, but He is not God's "one and only" Son. We are all children of God. Sons and Daughters. This is also a reson the AofF says what it does.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast Riiiiiight. So Mormons must not be allowed to call serial killers, "killers", but "serial murderers" by your logic.
You can slice it and dice it anyway you want. The end result of killing OR murdering is the same ... A LOST LIFE.
Nice try, but no cigar.
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 Now we return to sarcasm. You know exactly what I meant. It is up to the one interpreting to decide what will be recorded in the written word. This is why the NIV and the KJV do not teach the same thing. You say the Bible is the Bible. I agree, as long as it is translated correctly. I notice you did not address the rest of my comment. Now, do you actually have a comment relating to the video? Or are you stuck in attack mode?
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast Yeah I do have a comment relating to your video. Some people make the choice to believe in the Gospel according to Jesus Christ. Others make the choice to believe in the Gospel according to Joseph Smith. I choose the former. Mormons choose the latter.
I'm done with you. No more comments coming from me.
I choose Jesus Christ. You choose Joseph Smith. We'll see who's correct.
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 Amazing. You just don't get it. Jesus Christ is the Light, the Life and the Way. Joseph was merely a prophet. I choose Jesus the Christ. But you refuse to see this due to your own preconceived notions. Too bad. I thought you might have the guts to answer my questions.
And btw, your comment has nothing to do with the content of the video. Typical.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 M424Filmcast is right. LDS choose Jesus Christ, and know that Joseph Smith was the prophet raised up like Moses spoken of in the Old and New Testament, and fulfilled the verses of scripture that mainstream wannabe christians reject, and have no answer for.
LDS4Life71 1 year ago
@LDS4Life71 Thank you for your testimony.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@LDS4Life71 Listen to me - M424Filmcast is wrong ... DEAD wrong, and so are you if you believe him (or her). Want proof? Take 1 hour (JUST ONE HOUR) of your precious time and search for the video titled, "The Bible Vs. The Book Of Mormon (Complete)" It's 1 hour and 6 minutes long. If this video doesn't convince you that the Book of Mormon is a piece of trash (and the The Bible is THE one AND ONLY inspired word of God), then I sincerely don't know what else will.
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 Holy cow! You again? So why would we watch a video made by someone with the agenda to tear down the Lord's church?
Second, You do understand that videos like that are not made by people who understand the BoM. They are made by people who take select verses of scripture and try to make them look ridiculous. Atheists do this with the Bible.
Third, where exactly does God say that the Bible is His only word, and that it is complete? What about the missing books?
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast Afraid to face the evidence, eh? Joseph Smith predicted that Jesus Christ would return to earth in 1891. THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. According to Deuteronomy 18:22 AND I QUOTE: "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." Therefore, Joseph Smith is a false prophet. Therefore, the LDS Church is NOT CHRISTIAN. It's that simple.
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 Joseph never predicted Christ's return in 1891. Name your sources in context. I guarantee I can prove you wrong yet again.
The LDS church is most definitely christian.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast Doctrine & Covenants (Section 130), Joseph Smith recorded: "I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following: 'Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter.' "
Since JS was born in 1805, according to the above statement, Jesus should have returned in 1890. HE DIDN'T!
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 As usual, you did not read the entire section for context. You are only reading a small portion of what he actually said. If the reader will continue further in that passage, you will see how Joseph Smith himself understood the revelation, unfiltered through note-takers or critics who wish to explain his meaning: (cont.)
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face (D&C :130). The actual content of Joseph's prophecy--if personal opinion can be said to be prophecy--does not occur until the next verse: I believe the coming of the Son of Man will not be any sooner than that time.(D&C 130:17.)
(cont.)
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast Without a doubt, Joseph's belief proved correct. The Lord did not return to the earth for His Second Coming before that time. But there are other aspects of fulfillment that should also be considered. We do not know when it was that the Prophet earnestly prayed to know the time of the Lord's coming. The context, (verse 13), shows that it may have taken place in 1832 or earlier. (cont.)
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 At least twice, as is recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants, Joseph saw the face of the Son of Man. D&C 76:20-24 and D&C 110:2-10) both record appearances of the Lord Jesus Christ, either of which may constitute fulfillment of the Lord's prophetic promise. He may also have seen the Lord's face at the time of his death in 1844, as he pondered in D&C 130:16. (cont.)
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 Joseph made reference to the incident on at least two other occasions, and indicated that his belief was not that the Lord would come by the time of his 85th birthday, but rather that the Lord would not come before that time, which of course was a correct prophecy. In the History of the Church: I prophesy in the name of the Lord God, and let it be written--the Son of Man will not come in the clouds of heaven till I am eighty-five years old. (cont.)
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 Again, Joseph Smith doesn't say the Lord will come then, but that He will not come before that time. The return to his age 85 shows that all these remarks derive from the same interpretation of his somewhat opaque revelation from the Lord, who seems determined to tell his curious prophet nothing further. Later, Joseph Smith again prophesied on the subject of Christ's coming: (cont.)
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 I also prophesy, in the name of the Lord, that Christ will not come in forty years; and if God ever spoke by my mouth, He will not come in that length of time. Brethren, when you go home, write this down, that it may be remembered. Jesus Christ never did reveal to any man the precise time that He would come. Go and read the scriptures, and you cannot find anything that specifies the exact hour He would come; and all that say so are false teachers. (cont.)
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 This remark was made on 10 March 1844. It echoes a teaching given through Joseph in the Doctrine and Covenants in March 1831:
And they have done unto the Son of Man even as they listed; and he has taken his power on the right hand of his glory, and now reigneth in the heavens, and will reign till he descends on the earth to put all enemies under his feet, which time is nigh at hand— (cont.)
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 I, the Lord God, have spoken it; but the hour and the day no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor shall they know until he comes. (D&C 49:6-7). Thus, from the beginning to the end of his ministry, Joseph Smith denied that a man could or would know the date of the second coming of Christ. (Joseph's remarks may have been instigated by the intense interest among religious believers in William Miller's prophecy that Christ would return by 1843.)
(cont.)
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@StandUpForCanada1867 If this prophecy is read in its entirety, instead it being an "unfulfilled prophecy" as asserted by the detractors, it actually testifies to the truthfulness of the mission and prophetic stature of the Prophet Joseph Smith. No man knows the exact time the Savior will return, and Joseph Smith never claimed to. In other words, this argument fails when put to the test. Make sure you read completely before trying to argue what you don't know.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast You can slice it and dice it any way you want. A prophesy is a prophesy is a prophesy. And it didn't come true. Jesus didn't return in 1890. Therefore JS was a false prophet. Therefore the LDS Church is FALSE according to Deuteronomy 18:22. (Oh, but of course, you think the BoM overrides the Bible, so I shouldn't be quoting it)
How am I supposed to accept a bunch of WACKOS from Salt Lake City as so called "Christians" when 95% of LDS theology directly contradicts the Bible?
StandUpForCanada1867 1 year ago 8
@StandUpForCanada1867 16 I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face. 17 I believe the coming of the Son of Man will not be any sooner than that time.
It didn't say that Jesus would return at that time
madgatez 4 months ago
Twistianity at it's best...... is that interpreted correctly?
romanssix23 1 year ago
@romanssix23 And which version of the mainstream twisianity do you follow? Baptist? Methodist? Lutheran? Calvinist? Evangelical? Thousands of versions (approximately 35,000), yet they are somehow all correct. Despite the fact that they do not all teach the same thing. So, tell me which part of the video you would like to challenge? Oh, yeah, you only watched the first five seconds and had nothing better to comment with, so you resorted to simplistic garbage....
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
Twistianity at it's best......
romanssix23 1 year ago
So do you believe LDS is the only true way. I realize I've already commented on one of you're video's. But by the way you made it sound. It's ridiculous to believe anything but mormanism. Many people think Joseph Smith was of Satan. And though you've quoted the scripture on light and dark canot mix. You've left out the fact about false teachers. It's all Bilical. What you say could backfire from another belief that sounds logical also. Its a vicious circle. Only God reveals truth.
ItsNowWarfare 1 year ago
@ItsNowWarfare As a former mainstream christian, yes, I do believe that the church is true. Those who think Joseph was of Satan are simply ignorant of the facts. In regards to your assertions about scriptures and the "backfiring" of my points, would you care to be more specific? I would like to know exactly what your argument is.
In re: "Only God reveals truth", yes. He always reveals truth. That is how I gained my testimony of the truth.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast You refer to mainstream alot.Have you then ever expierenced TRUE Christianity?I know what mainstream is, its carnal and full of what I call "Sunday" Christians.Dont be decieved that all Christians are miss interpreted though. And that's how you gained it.But the muslim across the room claims he's claimed his too.And so does the Bhudist, and the Hindu.I believe I have gained the Truth.So can BOTH of us be correct? (me and you). Im not attacking you btw.I want to learn about the LDS.
ItsNowWarfare 1 year ago
@ItsNowWarfare True christianity is that which follows ALL of what was taught by Christ. I have been involved in many different versions of the type of christianity you are talking about. In regards to Muslims, Bhuddists, etc., they cannot claim truth in Christ. So that argument is pointless. In regards to gaining a testimony, it cannot come from reading scriptures alone. Nor can it come from a personal interpretation. That is why a prophet is necessary. Always has been, always will be.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
I think this must be the best response yet to the anti's interpretation of Galatians 1:8. At least it approaches it from a totally differentn angle. May I use it to counter other anti's who try to use it against us?
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Yeah, we don't have a clue. Only the antimormons know what we believe. xD
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@lindalds Sorry, I somehow missed your comment! D'oh!! Of course Sister. You are more than welcome to use this information as a counter to the anti's. I myself had some help from other members through collaboration in order to produce this vid in the first place. God Bless and keep the faith! :)
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
Hi, Mormons midwest ministry surely must be having an impact through the Sprit of Almight God-because never have I seen such LDS vitriol and hatred towards the truth on youtube as I see posted here.
Grace and peace 2U (Col 4:12-from the m-dog)
theminimumdog 1 year ago
And this relates to my video how?
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@theminimumdog Vitriol and hatred? That would be coming from ANTI-Mormons. Not from us. That's the problem when we Mormons post the obvious and simple truth, such as this video. Those opposed to the true gospel can think of nothing intelligent to refute it, so they resort to name-calling, and accusations of "vitriol and hatred".
lindalds 1 year ago
Satan is the father of lies! He decieves, he calls himself God because he thinks he is God!
philosophizer149 1 year ago
Exactly.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
The funny thing is he is called god of this world! 1 Corinthians 4:4
philosophizer149 1 year ago
One thing that never ceases to amaze me is the audacity of some ex-Mormons turned anti-Mormons who think that just because they have Pioneer ancestors, they are experts on everything to do with the Church. This perplexes me, especially when it appears obvious that they have been sleeping in Church for years, or they would know more about our basic doctrines. Even those who are BIC, must eventually get their own testimonies. Obviously, some of them didn't.
arklyn 1 year ago
My friend, I run into this all the time. It is amazing how those who claim to come from pioneer/mormon ancestry feel that way. There are many of them too that will comment on a video, pretending that they are the standard opponents of the church, then when they finally feel as though they have your number, they reveal that they are former members. If they are so sure of themselves, why not just say so right away? Because they know I will call them on their lack of activity, or excommunication.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@arklyn I have read several ex-Mormon "testimonies" and the one overwhelming question that keeps running thru my head is "WHAT church ARE they talking about?" because it SURE isn't the church I joined 31 years ago, as a 21 year old searcher of the most Biblical church.
lindalds 1 year ago
Acts 7:51-53
Ye STIFFNECKED and uncircumcised IN HEART and EARS, YE DO ALWAYS RESIST the HOLY GHOST: as your fathers did, SO DO YE. Which of the PROPHETS have not your fathers PERSECUTED and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have RECIEVED the law BY THE DISPOSTION OF ANGELS, and have NOT KEPT IT
imtherealthing 1 year ago 3
Keep up the great work brother!..great vid.
imtherealthing 1 year ago 2
@imtherealthing
Thanks! It seems that we have someone of the type we were just talking about on a roll right now! NotAMolly1 seems to think that we don't know about our own church! LOL xD
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@M424Filmcast But, don't you know? We Mormons don't know WHAT we believe!
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds That is very true....... can you tell me What is truth?
romanssix23 1 year ago
@romanssix23 Perhaps you can tell me rs23, what part of the three-headed god theology of your creed following mainstream christianity is true? It is obvious that you cannot stand against any of what was presented in the video. You likely only watched the first 5 seconds. This of course rendered you unable to do anything but what your kind is capable of...simply attacking, yet never addressing the questions asked. Weak....
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
Silly Cultist! "We thank the o' god(s) for a prophet?" Who is being worshiped here?
NotAMolly1 1 year ago
Silly antimormon! Didn't you get the point that we are not worshipping a prophet? The point of the video is to show people like you that you cannot use this scripture against us without making yourself look like a dork.
Just for the record, we worship God the Father.
Think next time before you post, and you won't look so ridiculous.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
Comment removed
NotAMolly1 1 year ago
Can you not answer.the.question? Who is being worshiped in the song "We thank thee oh god(s) for a prophet?"
NotAMolly1 1 year ago
Have you listened to all the words of the song? It is not about worshipping a prophet. If you listen, you will know that it is a song praising God for restoring the gospel through a prophet. Really...at least know what your talking about before you start posting ridiculous comments.
The real question is, can you dispute the facts presented? Or are you just another antimormon who has no idea what they are talking about.
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
I know the song. We rejoice in his glorious gospel? Hint; the his is not referring to God. It is referring to a pedophile (Joseph Smith Jr), a murderer (Brigham Young) and their oh so charming successors. And the rest of the song is all about being so much better than all those "poor unfortunate souls" who don't have a "living prophet" to guide them.
This exmormon knows the words quite well and finds the song rather sad.
NotAMolly1 1 year ago
And now the cut and paste arguments from the websites and cult books and YT vids made by our opposition....Ho-hum....
Oh, yes, another ex-mormon who either:
1. Never gained a testimony
2. Was pressured by peers to leave the church.
3. Suddenly "found" some supposedly "secretive" information about the church.
4. Was involved in sin and got excommunicated and had no choice before leaving.
5. Had some friend who pointed out the "false" teachings in the church.
I've heard it all....
M424Filmcast 1 year ago
@NotAMolly1
You sound like an ingrate..do you not REALIZE that if it wasn't for the PROPHETS or APOSTLES..we would have no record of the scriptures (The Bible, Book of Mormon, etc)...try freeing yourself from the anti-mormon lies rather than further removing yourself from the little truth and light you still have in you. YOur anger is not justified as are your sins that took you out of the church. "YOU" need to bend to the Lord's will..not the other way around. THis is the TRUTH.
imtherealthing 1 year ago 2
@NotAMolly1
Justin Martyr who in speaking to a Jew called Trypho also PRAISED the PROPHETS throughout his debate with the Jew Trypho. This is just ONe example of the love the Early Christians had for the prophets and apostles..try softening your heart rather than buy into all the lies of anti-mormons...the truth is not found in thier lies. Don't buy into anything you read on-line at FACE VALUE...no excuse - for the Holy Ghost (a GOD of the GODHEAD) will tell you what no man can by HIS power.
imtherealthing 1 year ago 4
NotAMolly1. You don't know the song very well, at all if you think it worships Joseph Smith. The song praises God for sending a new Prophet to open the Dispensation of the Restoration. The whole song praises God! Open your eyes, and shut your mouth, lest you show yourself to be a fool!
What's really sad is that you ex-Mormons pose as experts about the Church, when it is so obvious you probably never even had a testimony! Then you base your beliefs on anti-Mormon web sites and tracts.
arklyn 1 year ago
@NotAMolly1
We do not "worship Joseph Smith". We venerate him like any other people do with the prophets of the Bible. We can go into any Chrsitian church and in thier Sunday Schools or service where they read/hear/talk of PROPHETS. The stories of Daniel, Moses, John the Baptist, etc.
AS a MATTER of "FACT" we see how important "PROPHETS" are to the Jews to this day. They venerate them so much so that they are no different than the Christians of the first 3 centuries who did the same.
imtherealthing 1 year ago 2