Holding onto force fetching and e-collars, as a badge of one's toughness and adherence to the old ways, is going to hurt working retrievers in the long run.
You have no idea how this plays to the public at large, even if it does work. People don't want to pinch or shock their dogs just to be able to do some retrieving tests.
But the American trial system essentially won't allow for anything else. The dogs are lined, even if there are good reasons for the dog not to line in th real world.
@Stothetens - sorry, I skim read. My comments about the title were written thinking jocwalk was the trainer of the dog in the video. I was wrong. Feel free to delete my last comment as it was aimed at this person under a wrong assumption. Sorry.
Your film title is "Positive Retriever Training". This is more true than most people would know, since it is +P (+ punishment) training. +R is also positive Retriever Training in that +R is +reinforcement.
My grandmother lived to be 95 and smoked until she was 90. You're not going to say that disproves, that smoking is detrimental to your health, are you?
Tremendous! Wonderful teamwork! We have a Flat-Coated Retriever we're training for Dummy work and dog Dancing, also exclusively with positive re-enforcement methods (Clicker with treats and play-rewards). I'll never understand why people insist this can only be done with e-collars and the like.
The e-collar is a valuable tool and one of the fairest training methods when used correctly. In most of my training sessions, I use only the green "praise tone" button on the transmitter. However, my 13 month-old is doing FAR more complex blinds than what is shown here due mostly to my positive methods with only occasional e-collar corrections from extended distances. My experience has been that the biggest critics of the e-collar have never used one.
@jocwalk - well, I don't have to be a smoker to be critical of smoking either. I wonder why Robert Milner, even before he switched to clicker training for his gun dogs was always so against e-collars (let's not be cute, eh? They are shock collars.) If you are, as you write "what is shown here due mostly to my positive methods with only occasional e-collar corrections from extended distances." then you are using +P as well as +R. +R/-P I can see, +P not. My $.02
That's a pretty weak point you made. Once the uninitiated realize the potential of judicious use of e-collars, most realize how constructive a tool they can be, not to mention that they can help save a dog's life. (A little nick of electricity is a lot less painful than a car bumper.) There are no long-term health effects from e-collars. My dog runs highly technical, very complicated scenarios with a great attitude so I guess with your analogy, he already has lung cancer???
Thank you so much for your kind remarks :D Great to find that many of you dogowners and trainers all over the world feel the same way! I will soon post another vid of me and my Casey as we won an Eliteclass Workingtest this weekend, on a looooong single mark :D Wohooo! Happy, happy!
Holding onto force fetching and e-collars, as a badge of one's toughness and adherence to the old ways, is going to hurt working retrievers in the long run.
You have no idea how this plays to the public at large, even if it does work. People don't want to pinch or shock their dogs just to be able to do some retrieving tests.
But the American trial system essentially won't allow for anything else. The dogs are lined, even if there are good reasons for the dog not to line in th real world.
Retrieverman1 8 months ago
@Stothetens - sorry, I skim read. My comments about the title were written thinking jocwalk was the trainer of the dog in the video. I was wrong. Feel free to delete my last comment as it was aimed at this person under a wrong assumption. Sorry.
musicofnote1 1 year ago
Your film title is "Positive Retriever Training". This is more true than most people would know, since it is +P (+ punishment) training. +R is also positive Retriever Training in that +R is +reinforcement.
musicofnote1 1 year ago
My grandmother lived to be 95 and smoked until she was 90. You're not going to say that disproves, that smoking is detrimental to your health, are you?
musicofnote1 1 year ago
Thanks for the positive video. I enjoy any that show a positive way to train your dog to retrieve and build teamwork based on trust, not fear!!
supernaturalbc2009 2 years ago
Tremendous! Wonderful teamwork! We have a Flat-Coated Retriever we're training for Dummy work and dog Dancing, also exclusively with positive re-enforcement methods (Clicker with treats and play-rewards). I'll never understand why people insist this can only be done with e-collars and the like.
musicofnote1 2 years ago
The e-collar is a valuable tool and one of the fairest training methods when used correctly. In most of my training sessions, I use only the green "praise tone" button on the transmitter. However, my 13 month-old is doing FAR more complex blinds than what is shown here due mostly to my positive methods with only occasional e-collar corrections from extended distances. My experience has been that the biggest critics of the e-collar have never used one.
jocwalk 1 year ago
@jocwalk - well, I don't have to be a smoker to be critical of smoking either. I wonder why Robert Milner, even before he switched to clicker training for his gun dogs was always so against e-collars (let's not be cute, eh? They are shock collars.) If you are, as you write "what is shown here due mostly to my positive methods with only occasional e-collar corrections from extended distances." then you are using +P as well as +R. +R/-P I can see, +P not. My $.02
musicofnote1 1 year ago
That's a pretty weak point you made. Once the uninitiated realize the potential of judicious use of e-collars, most realize how constructive a tool they can be, not to mention that they can help save a dog's life. (A little nick of electricity is a lot less painful than a car bumper.) There are no long-term health effects from e-collars. My dog runs highly technical, very complicated scenarios with a great attitude so I guess with your analogy, he already has lung cancer???
jocwalk 1 year ago
how do I train my dog to follow direction like you did? :) great vid
rygrystaldrigrist 2 years ago
Great video!
Wonderful dog, wonderful training, wonderful philosophy!
jeaeve 3 years ago
great work!yes its great to see positive training i too am sick of the e collars
chalk6666 3 years ago 2
Thank you so much for your kind remarks :D Great to find that many of you dogowners and trainers all over the world feel the same way! I will soon post another vid of me and my Casey as we won an Eliteclass Workingtest this weekend, on a looooong single mark :D Wohooo! Happy, happy!
Stolthetens 2 years ago 2
Thank you so much for a positive video. I am sooooooooo sick of seeing shock collars and forced retrieves.
SplishSplashCrash 3 years ago