When I read the Dune novels, I realise I'm being guided by somebody who's much smarter than me. It doesn't often happen when I read fiction, and it's fabulous when it does.
It seems Herbert was trying to hint at imperialism. The native people of IRAQis (sp) , the mujaheddin, would have been equally bad off under the Americans (Atrates) or the Soviets (Harconin) . And in true western fantasy style, the poor natives could not prevail until the sophisticated European took an Indian name (Dances with Spice Worms) and switched sides. :-)
Also I read your teasers on the uplift sequels, hurry please, I am one of your completeness nerds. What happens to the sooners?
Tim O'Reilly wrote a commentary on Frank Herbert and his fiction, and while he also thinks that Dune and especially Dune Messiah are warnings, O'Reilly didn't see the warning against feudalism, but as a warning against hero worship. This book is available for free if you search for the phrases "Tim O'Reilly" and "Frank Herbert".
Interesting take on Dune. I am not sure I agree that Herbert intended the books to be a warning. In the later books, The God Emperor Leto speaking (I believe) in Herbert's own voice, is extremely critical of democracy and liberalism. The later books seem to suggest that we as a species are fundamentally unable to make liberal government work, and that we revert to feudalism as a less bad system. This is at odds with Brin's own work.
@DoctorB9 yes, but we mustn't take the words of the God Emperor for granted. Remember, we was trying to teach humanity a lesson, the lesson they/we failed to learn all these millenia, to stop looking for guidance from an all powerful God-Emperor and to make out own choices and destiny.
Thank you! I have been pointing this sort of thing out to people for a long time...
Star Wars, Dune, many more in some ways including Star Trek, (why do we only see the higher ranks of officer!?!?! what is this a Cruise Ship???), ALL are based on effectively slave societies. If not raditional slavery then perhaps Confucian.
A man need not have a shackle on his leg to be a slave, all it needs is for the choices to be narrowed before him from birth.
Thank you! I have been pointing this sort of thing out to people for a long time...
Star Wars, Dune, many more in some ways including Star Trek, (why do we only see the higher ranks of officer!?!?! what is this a Cruise Ship???), ALL are based on effectively slave societies. If not raditional slavery then perhaps Confucian.
A man need not have a shackle on his leg to be a slave, all it needs is for the choices to be narrowed before him from birth.
@bookmanpc Not Star Trek. Star Trek portrays a world of opportunity; it's not just a tale of mythic heroes, significant and deliberate effort was made especially in ST:TNG to show how egalitarian and progressive it is. ST:TNG gives the little people their 5 minutes everywhere it can. Wherever it doesn't go further with this is explainable in terms of the constraints of it being a TV series.
When I read the Dune novels, I realise I'm being guided by somebody who's much smarter than me. It doesn't often happen when I read fiction, and it's fabulous when it does.
darrylsloan 1 month ago
Fear is the mind killer.
thekwizatshaderach 1 month ago
Interesting. So when will the next Uplift novel come out! I can't wait to see what comes next!
Ulieq 5 months ago
Love your provocative nature!
MingleMediaTVNetwork 6 months ago
It seems Herbert was trying to hint at imperialism. The native people of IRAQis (sp) , the mujaheddin, would have been equally bad off under the Americans (Atrates) or the Soviets (Harconin) . And in true western fantasy style, the poor natives could not prevail until the sophisticated European took an Indian name (Dances with Spice Worms) and switched sides. :-)
Also I read your teasers on the uplift sequels, hurry please, I am one of your completeness nerds. What happens to the sooners?
ProfessorDJINN 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Tim O'Reilly wrote a commentary on Frank Herbert and his fiction, and while he also thinks that Dune and especially Dune Messiah are warnings, O'Reilly didn't see the warning against feudalism, but as a warning against hero worship. This book is available for free if you search for the phrases "Tim O'Reilly" and "Frank Herbert".
VegeBrain 8 months ago
Comment removed
VegeBrain 8 months ago
@bookmanpc I meant design.
PtAltmVansanTarr 8 months ago
@bookmanpc aren't choices narrow by chance as well as dewing
PtAltmVansanTarr 8 months ago
Interesting take on Dune. I am not sure I agree that Herbert intended the books to be a warning. In the later books, The God Emperor Leto speaking (I believe) in Herbert's own voice, is extremely critical of democracy and liberalism. The later books seem to suggest that we as a species are fundamentally unable to make liberal government work, and that we revert to feudalism as a less bad system. This is at odds with Brin's own work.
DoctorB9 10 months ago
@DoctorB9 yes, but we mustn't take the words of the God Emperor for granted. Remember, we was trying to teach humanity a lesson, the lesson they/we failed to learn all these millenia, to stop looking for guidance from an all powerful God-Emperor and to make out own choices and destiny.
EXDE601E 3 weeks ago
Good point of view, thanks
BadKonda 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Thank you! I have been pointing this sort of thing out to people for a long time...
Star Wars, Dune, many more in some ways including Star Trek, (why do we only see the higher ranks of officer!?!?! what is this a Cruise Ship???), ALL are based on effectively slave societies. If not raditional slavery then perhaps Confucian.
A man need not have a shackle on his leg to be a slave, all it needs is for the choices to be narrowed before him from birth.
bookmanpc 10 months ago
Thank you! I have been pointing this sort of thing out to people for a long time...
Star Wars, Dune, many more in some ways including Star Trek, (why do we only see the higher ranks of officer!?!?! what is this a Cruise Ship???), ALL are based on effectively slave societies. If not raditional slavery then perhaps Confucian.
A man need not have a shackle on his leg to be a slave, all it needs is for the choices to be narrowed before him from birth.
bookmanpc 10 months ago
@bookmanpc Not Star Trek. Star Trek portrays a world of opportunity; it's not just a tale of mythic heroes, significant and deliberate effort was made especially in ST:TNG to show how egalitarian and progressive it is. ST:TNG gives the little people their 5 minutes everywhere it can. Wherever it doesn't go further with this is explainable in terms of the constraints of it being a TV series.
Jacnas 10 months ago
Wonderful!
SecularResponse 10 months ago
Another great analysis by the most captivating book/movie analyst in the game!
m1foley 10 months ago 2