Religion is so corrupted and that is why there are atheists. Too many bad experienced with so called Christians, but they never live by the book as they claim. I think athiests has a much better chance going to heaven than the so-called christian who does not live by the book. God only offers forgiveness to those who are worthy and I had found that athiest live by the book than most christians do.
Go check out my videos "Religion is ridiculous" (specifically Christianity)....good stuff, rate it!!! Christians i CHALLENGE you to watch with an open mind. Athiests go watch and if you like give them a thumbs up! Help spread the truth!
@acr08807: Everyday is a test from God and it is up to you to prove God wrong. Most true Christians sacrifice so much, due to their faith and that is why you see many Christian in poverty, sicken with illness, and willing to die for God. Remember, what is given is not yours to keep.
@patsaxon Amen. You never see atheists willing to die for God. I hate to use immoderate language, but what more proof do you need that atheists are a bunch of pussies?
@user1maximum: If you do not pray for it, you will never get a miracle and that is the truth. Try to convince over a billion Christians and jews that they are living in a fantasy world, and tell them that God does not exist. You are all out numbered, maybe you are the one who is missing out?
@patsaxon A few thousands years ago, NOBODY knew the Earth was a round-shaped object floating in space. Being a majority (or a great number) doesn't make people right. That's not logic, that's sheep mentality. And on a side note, you follow one religions amongst many many others currently existing in the world. You are as outnumbered as atheists are.
You must pray for it and since you do not believe in God, then you do not deserve an miracle. Due to the mercy of God, It is a miracle that we are given one more day to live each day. We are given a chance each day to welcome God in our life, so we can be ready to come home when our time has ended.
@patsaxon It's a real wonder that God even bothers to give the atheists the miracle of one more day to live each day. It's not like the good old days, when God wasn't afraid to roll up his sleeves and kill the folks who didn't toe His line. Do you think God's just gone too soft?
@raidersSolja Excellent analogy. Yes, God is a dictator. If you don't praise Him constantly, if you disagree with any of His rules, if you support one of His rivals, if you try to think for yourself, you will go to the gulag we call Hell. When Jesus said "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" in Matthew 25:40, I think He meant it.
If Xianity survives another 2 000 years (let's hope not), there will almost certainly be reports of miracles that were happening NOW. God will have killed Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden, directly caused the collapse of WTC (no hijackers involved), and prevented several asteroid impacts.
I personally feel that we don't see miracles today, because too many people want to see them just for proof that God exists. And God clearly states not to challenge Him. I can't say this is true, but it's how I see it. I do believe miracles do happen, but because Christ isn't walking around, there's no need for coverage. But even as a Christian, I do have these same questions. I guess you can call me a Christian with common sense and an open mind, lol.
@matrix86 James Randi has stated clearly he will pay 1 million dollars to Anyone who can demonstrate a miracle under scrutiny. Don't you see if miracles or the supernatural existed, Randi would have had to pay up?
@matrix86 I understand why made-up religions say that their gods don't want to be challenged. If they claim that their religion yields miracles, but can never produce anything that is unambiguously miraculous, it's pretty easy to see that they're frauds. For them, "don't challenge our god" is just covering their tracks. But since God is real, that can't be His reason. So why is God afraid of being challenged?
If you don't believe the Bible in front of you,you want believe if another rises from the dead! Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
@mnoguera13 (cont.) I'm just saying that in my opinion it is far more reasonable to suspect that this story came about by human error, human resiliency, and dumb luck, even in outrageously improbable circumstances, than it is to suspect that a being of a kind never before observed by humans magically (and that is as close of a word as is appropriate for making blood come from nowhere) replaced his plasma and kick-started his heart all without physically touching him. Wouldn't you agree?
@mnoguera13 It'd take a lot more than a bullet wound to totally drain someone of blood, but it could have caused exsanguination, death caused by blood loss of 40% or more. However, I believe people can recover from that if treated properly, as they should have been on the ambulance ride. Also human error has to be take into account when pronouncing, EMT's don't need even half as much training to get the job as a doctor does. Not trying to make excuses, just pointing out some alternatives...
@mnoguera13 Bullets have a tendency to continue working their way into the body if they hit in the right place. The man might have been shot in a non-fatal area of the head (not that rare), bled from the wound, then the bullet moved into a position that cut off the blood flow and allowed the blood to coagulate. The 2 hour wait is what explains it, any blood lost would have replenished fully after 2 hours. Allowing that he may have just been revived in time. At least more likely than god did it..
Facts are not determined by the majority. To lock your mentality into a box of unprovable convictions based on books written by fallible, bronze age men, and then call ANYONE narrow-minded for questioning their veracity is hypocrisy in the highest degree.
The atheist does not claim disproof of God; he/she disbelieves the case you make for his existence, and is ENTITLED to demand evidence from you if you insist that he/she should share your belief.
God exists, that's the accepted claim by the majority of people, you want to challenge that, bring the evidence, the burden of proof is on YOU. Some narrow minded atheist proposed the wrong notion that atheism doesn't require evidence and many gullible atheists had run to foolishly embrace it. Philosophically the burden of proof is in the argument challenging the establishment. What evidence you have that atheism is true? None, zero, nada. Open your eyes, you're being deceived by an evil cult.
If all these biblical miracles really had occurred, there would have been THOUSANDS of witnesses to them - and therefore thousands of disciples to spread the word throughout the world.
Instead, all but a very few went back to their normal everyday activities as if miracle-working were the norm. Very very hard to impress, these ancients.
OMG I JUST SURVIVED A PLANE CRASH. ITS A MIRACLE IM HERE BUT EVERYONE ELSE IS DEAD! GOD MUST REALLY HAD HIS ANGELS PROTECTING ME AND ME A LONE. BECAUSE IM SPECIAL IN MANY WAYS
OH Shit, they made a mistake about the book of fairytales. I guess god is real. My sister once told me “Luke is Vader’s father.” I guess Star Wars is real too.
All of it is made up stories. If god is the same everyday then why aren't people getting healed by praying? When we all get sick we go to doctors to prescribe meds. When u get a headache let's see if u can live without aspirin. I believe in science medicine and naturality. Not some supernatural being or some man name Jesus. No miracles are happening today.
@wasilewski91 Nah, he's too busy watching people having sex to care about anything else, seeing as how homosexuality is a more important threat to humanity than famine
@juan95815 I don't think you know as much about "God" as you think you do.
Talk about what, Pascal's Wager? Make an argument from design? Say that life is too complex therefore a wizard did it? Please, get real. Religious arguments are so old and outdone they're laughable. Just stay here in Youtube, you'll get all the refuting you want. Or head over to ironchariots(dot)org and type in your favorite argument.
There's no need to see miracles because the miracles from the bible that already have been preformed, people have witnessed, just like how people witness wars, we weren't there but we believe in what people say they witnessed from reading text books.
God cant heal you, if you don't have faith in him He will heal you.
My God He Is, My God He Was, My God Will Always Be - Revelations 1:4
@juan95815 There was a family a few years ago who believed their daughter would be saved by god and medicine was unnecessary. She had type two diabetes, which is easily treatable with prescription drugs, and suffered for about a month in her bed whilst the parents committed second degree murder by supplementing available medicines with prayer. Are you seriously saying the only reason she died is because she personally didn't believe in god? That's ridiculous.
Hey god. I'm gonna fire up the grill for dinner tonight (I know how much you enjoy sacrificing animals). Come on over and sit a spell. I'd love to chat. SRSLY, don't be such a stranger.
@hempartist420 careful now, asserting that god doesn't exist requires evidence. i'll let that slide though because i know what you really mean is that you don't believe god exists because ther is no evidence that he does. i think we've gotten off topic though, looking back at the previous posts.
@hempartist420 and how do you know what the best plan is, if you don't know the possible outcome of any given decision how can you say that you can do a better job than god. the answer is you can't. the plan god uses is the best, he is omnipotent,therefore knows all the possible outcomes and can therefore determine the best plan. you can't even tell what will happen 5 min. from now, let alone the best plan for man. you obviously think god is retarded to think you can do better than him.
@hempartist420 i'm sorry, i didn't know you could see every possible outcome of every action made by man. so tell me oh wise one what will my future hold, and please be specific. if you find that you can't perform this task, then your accusation that god has taken the least productive route is false. and by the way, try to get a better grasp of biblical teachings, there will be no actual fire in hell, that is an attempt to desribe the undescribable. the spiritual realm is not physical in any way
@hempartist420 you are right we kill in order to live. god doesn't make us kill so he can play with the blood, but you don't see a problem with killing a cow to eat it and live, but you find it wierd that god would choose to follow the same pattern when it comes to your eternal life.(assuming you have a soul that is eternal). why is that? the pattern i am talking about is that in order for one thing to live something else must die.
11:30 here, gotta hit the rack, even though we will probobly never agree on the subject i have enjoyed our conversation, and i appreciate you not stooping to ad hominem attacks.
we dont have miricals any more because we understan and can explain what happend. back then they would call anything a mirical because they didnt understand how it happend. religion is an excuse for ignorance - willy
and yeshu will save your life if you belive in him.. there will come many .. and no peace.. first the decieving.. and then if u stay with yehshu and DO NOT BELIVE IN THE DECIEVERS than u will see what's happening =)
belive me.. they wanna decieve me too men.. i am your proof.. let me be the one who tell you in the name of ישוע that they tried to decieve me haaard and badly.. but now .. i'm still praying to Ḡòḍ and belive in ישוע
@thatamazinggeek gods desire is for us to love him, which way demonstrates our love greater, if he were to give us undeniable proof, or if we love him without it. who demonstrates the greater love?
@40something100 No the question makes sense, but I think it's flawed. It would show greater love of US to love him without proof of his existence, but that does not prove that he exists. Besides, I am far more LIKELY to show love to someone who I know exists, not someone I have to have faith in.
@Patriots09ist it was not intended to prove he exists. let me ask you this, how did god come into the thoughts of man, we know that every ancient culture, no matter how old, had a god. why?
@40something100 Ah, a very good question. I love it. Descartes actually was the one who voiced it, however badly, claiming that he could concieve of an infinitely perfect being, one that had total control. The problem with this theory was that they only concieved of this being when they realized the alternative sucked. The human race is very nihilophobic, in that the idea that there is nothing after death scares the hell out of them. Dostoevsky in the brothers Karamatzov, made his character.
@Patriots09ist interesting, iv'e asked that question to many and have never been offered the one you give. i will have to give it it's due consideration.
@Patriots09ist so , being in a state where we only understand life, i think it logical to conclude that humans presume life as eternal, if there is no death then life is eternal. the fear comes not from not having an afterlife, but, the fear arises from what the afterlife will bring. to me, knowing there was no afterlife would be more of a relief, and would give me freedoms i don't have now, namely guilt, it would be a life with no real consequences, the most that coulod happen is i die.
@40something100 first of all no one is claiming that life is eternal. Nothing is eternal. Eternality is impossible. The fear arises from whether the afterlife will exist. CHRISTIAN fear lies in what the afterlife will bring, because they are SO SURE that there is an afterlife in the first place. And also atheists reject the idea that a lack of an afterlife negates morality. In fact that is a very common arrogant Christian mistake when thinking of an atheist.
@Patriots09ist and as horrible as that may sound i wouldn't know it once dead. a life of guiltless pleasure, able to do what ever stikes my fancy, mass murder, rape, or whatever, if you didn't like it so what the most you could do is kill me. i have nothing else to pay, but , because with an understanding of an afterlife that was a natural part of our thought process, there is a fear, that our deeds will follow us beyond the grave. we have to convience ourselves that death is the end.
@40something100 You wouldnt have guiltless pleasures, because the morals of man would still exist.Atheists are bound by a utilitarian philosophy. you could say that there is no reason we act morally. And you might be right, AND YET WE ARE MORAL ANYWAY. No one needs a reason to be moral, in fact, I find that being moral, because God says so, or because you will be judged less harshly after death to be a disgusting proposition, because it takes altruism totally out of the mix.
@Patriots09ist it is not that we are moral because god says so, there are lots of decent moral people who want to have nothing to do with god. heaven and hell are not solely dependant on morals, we say that god sets the moral standards making them objective, not subjective, which is what morals are in the hand of men. aquiring heaven requires a life of obedience and personal sacrifice, meaning we give up things that others enjoy, but those thing may not be morally wrong, but are best for us.
@40something100 Ok, then what else is heaven and hell dependant on, if not merely morality? Morals in the hand of god are ALSO subjective, because even if he is god, that doesnt make him right, and the ones who claim that DOES make him right can only say that he is right because he is god, which is one of the dumbest possible answers. Obedience and personal sacrifice are considered virtues, because they are good, meaning that it does have to do with morality, and even if it doesnt, thats a weak
@Patriots09ist a virtue the same thing as morals, morals have to do with how we treat each other, and interact with each other. someone who is virtueous is most likely going to have good morals as they go hand in hand with each other. but having good morals doesn't make you virtueous. gods moral laws are not subjective, they do not change because god's character doesn't change. all of the moral laws of the O.T. were carried over to the N.T. through christs teaching. the ritual laws
@Patriots09ist were done away with, because they were given to the jews, and when christ came, a new set of laws were given to replace them but were given to all people of every nation, the o.t. laws could not save the soul, and were not given to accomplish that but were given as a means of preperation for the arrival of christ. christ fullfilled the o.t. laws by living perfectly keeping all of them without fault.
@Patriots09ist as far as what it takes besides moral obiedence, there are some ritual observences, like communion, observence of the first day of the week to come together in worship, worship must be performed according to the way he wants, and many others. even jesus says their will be alot of good decent deeply religious people who will not obtain heaven.
@40something100 Not all Christians practice those rituals. Second, Gods morals change all the time. Example, first off, Adam and Eve could not eat animals, but Noah could. Third, are you telling me that God made the morals and laws, If so, you would have to admit that in the several days before the Israelites reached mount Sinai, they were under the impression that killing and rape and terror was ok, only to find out in Exodus and Leviticus that it was not?
@Patriots09ist third, god did not have to put moral laws in print, these laws are a part of knowing good from evil,they are imbedded in human nature. cain knew that killing his brother was wrong, long before moses. however man makes moral laws subjective to justify himself, god objectified moral law when he gave them to moses, so that no one could make them subjective without going against god's law.
@40something100 If they are truly embedded in human nature, WHY ARE THEY IN THE BIBLE?! what makes God's laws objective. They are no different then things that please him. what makes him so special? God has broken more of his own laws, then anyone. Especially the 7 deadly sins, except for lust, where he's a total prude, ensuring that if he doesnt get any, there need to be strict laws governing when people get laid. He's killed more people than anyone else, and we are supposed to worship THAT?!
@Patriots09ist lets take thou shall not steal as example, a person doesn't have to be taught that stealing is wrong, a child may not understand but at a certain point in life everyone realizes this there is a feeling og guilt that accompinies the act. however man who is starving may subjectify this law to justify his actions, but god objectified the law and even though starving it is still wrong to steal, the same thing goes for lying, have you seen the atheist life v. religious life vid?
@40something100 Yeah because man has created the law that punishes the thief. Its not a feeling of guilt, its one of getting caught! Especially since atheists only make up 5% of the US prison population, so its no fear of God that stops these men, its the fear of getting caught by the law, so they devise other more clever methods of stealing, like running for office for example. No I havent seen that vid, but I bet it would back up a lot of cliche's and fallacies.
@Patriots09ist i'd like to see that pole, i wonder how many of those prison christians were actually calling themselves christian before going to jail. are you afraid to steal only because you might get caught? i think not.
@40something100 Yes. I am. I fear no god, and fear none of his laws. I also wont steal because a society cannot function if everyone does it. That fuels my morality. Its the one thing from Immanuel Kant I have sympathy for. This POLL was taken was in 1997, so it is old, but there is no reason why it would change so dramatically. Back then it was 2.1 percent, and in 2008 it had rose to 5%. You do the math on that rate of expansion.
@Patriots09ist i was just wondering how many of those in prison who claimed to be christian became so after they were in prison. it may not be much different but prison does have a way to change a persons way of thinking and religion is promoted in many prisons.
@40something100 Why would they lie? Yeah it does, including Christians who would sell their faith out. An atheist has nothing to gain by lying about his faith. And if he does gain favor by identifying as a Christian, that sickens me and how far we have sunk.
@Patriots09ist i'm not saying they lied, i'm wondering more of how the question was posed. did the simply ask convicts if they were christians or did they ask were you a christian before going to prision the results might vary widely depending on how you ask the question.
@40something100 No, they asked, what is your faith? .2 percent said none/atheist. 30-40 percent said Christian. another 15-20 Muslim, then Jewish, Hindu, etc.
@Patriots09ist exactly so, i wonder how many of those claiming a religious affiliation converted after they were in prison, and how many had no religious affiliation prior.
@40something100 Possible, but doubtful, and if so, it wouldnt account for much, and even if it did, thats just religion being a tool for an immoral man. Im about to be executed lets convert so that I can save my ass right before I die, just in case. Its pathetic.
@Patriots09ist i don't think people convert to religion because they decide to take up pascals wager, i think it is from a sense of despair, in fact i think that most people who claim to be atheists are not really, they just have not sunk down to a level of dispair in which they feel god is their only hope, and may never get to that point before they die.
@40something100 Well yeah, duh. Of course they do. That's another pathetic argument for the existence of God. Their conversion is false, because its not from the heart and it's not sincere. Its not just a sense of despair its a selfish urge to try and get last minute salvation. But they dont hedge their bets, they just go for the freak chance.
@Patriots09ist one doesn't have to be facing death to be at a point of asking for god's help, people reach that point at different points, it may take death for some for others it may be a life in prison, or the death of someone close, it is the point where one feels so alone or can see no way out of their prediciment and find no one to help them. that does not make their conversion false, it makes them more staunch in their belief, because it provides them with what they seek, comfort.
@40something100 Yeah, but there are those more reasonable who pull out a big boy spine and figure life out for themselves. I did. I almost died from a suicidal depression. For months I begged and pleaded to god and for months, nothing, not one thing, just me. And from nothing, I found the strength, not from some asshole god, or his weak son, but me I found the strength and anger and passion to keep living. From my passion, I gained strength, through strength, power, through power, victory.
@Patriots09ist you begged and pleaded? what did you want from god? i attempted suicide myself once, when i was 19. it was after that that i decided to give god my life, to do my best to follow his precepts, i didn't expect any miracles or have come down and wisper in my ear what i should do. but my life changed, i changed it, but i give god the credit for giving me the strength to change it.
@40something100 I begged and pleaded for him to get me out of the Rehab center i was in. God gave me no strength and it makes me sad that christians thank him for their success when it was all them. Because getting out of that hellhole was all me, and I am stronger for it.
@Patriots09ist you asked god for strength, then as you said you found the strenght and anger and passion to accomplish your goal. sounds to me like you got exactly what you asked for. did you expect god to magically cure you. and let you walk out the door the same day? is that why you don't give god the credit?
@40something100 Not from him. At least if it was a god it wasnt the christian god. Anger and strength and passion are not his style. I got what I want after 4 months of suffering, and the work still isnt done. You happen to think that the belief in god is true and that he gave you the strength, but there is no good reason for anyone else to say it's true. I choose to credit myself, because I survived. Without him. I felt no sense of fulfillment or grace or presence in the lord, I felt only rage
@Patriots09ist well that's the difference between you and i, you seem to think that god should do things the way you think they should be done or else you credit him nothing, i think that god helped me the way he saw as best, because all i was doing was screwing everything up which is why i got in the position i was in.
@40something100 Thats not at all what I think. I think he should stay out of human affairs altogether. If he created us great, now go away. We all grow to a certain age where we can take care of ourselves and we move out of our parents homes. It should be no different with God, in fact if I could start my life over, I would kick him out of it earlier. I dont want to credit him with good or bad. Its time people took responsibility for their actions whether good actions or bad actions.
@40something100 Rage that I was there for so long. That I had pissed away four months of my life. Months that I later found out I never needed to spend there and there was an easier way for me to get the help I needed. Faith is weak, faith is not wanting to believe what is true, and faith held me back.
@40something100 You have your rules and your religion all designed to keep you safe, but when rules start getting broken, you start questioning your faith. I have a voice and its my savior, hates to love and loves to hate. But at the same time, it is me. I am my own god, my own savior, my own strength, my own life, and I love myself because of it. God puts you in these horrible situations and then gives you the strength to get out of it, what did you do? If he was testing you, he wouldnt give
@40something100 you strength, he would want you to get out of it by yourself, but what kind of bastard flings tests at someone like that. To test their faith? I have no faith, what is there to test? He's testing me for no reason, when I didnt even sign up for the class! And if he's NOT testing you, then why does he let such bad things happen to you?
@Patriots09ist my religion is not designed to keep me safe that is so far from the truth it's laughable. i am subject to the same trials of life as everyone else, god never promises to keep you from anything this life brings. he only promises to work everything in you life for good, doesn't mean i won't suffer anything but that at the end of the day i'll be better off than i was, it is the trials in life we face that make us stronger, but only if we have the strength to overcome them.
@40something100 that was a song lyric actually, forgot to omit that part. Second, are you really telling me that AIDS, crack babies, Justin Beiber, the Nazis, and the latin grammies etc are all things that can be worked for GOOD?! There is no WAY im buying that. THAT is so far from the truth it's laughable. Romans 8:28 is used cliche, keep it out of this conversation. I never asked for these trials.
@Patriots09ist no you didn't ask for these trials, neither did i, but we face them just the same.i'm sorry but i can't ignore something that i am icovienced of even if you think it is a cliche. and yes aids crack babies and such can be worked for good, they can change lives and save souls. i don't know about ole J.B., that kid kinda rubs me the wrong way,especially his hair cut.
@40something100 How can those be worked for good? What good comes out of a massive fatal disease and babies addicted to crack? If anything thats proof that christians should let more abortions through. This bores me. They cant change lives they can't save souls and god is not the answer or the solution. He is the problem. Whether he exists or not, he needs to get out of our lives.
@Patriots09ist you must remember that it is a conditional statement, all things work for good to those that love the lord and keep his commandments. not all things work for the good. if you chose, he will leave you to work it out on your own.
@40something100 I want him to be completely uninvolved in all lives. We dont need him. Many dont want him. His laws often lead to violence and hurt. And its not a conditional statement. Because its been debunked. The faithful and the faithless both suffer. And not only do bad things happen to good people, but good things can just as easily happen to bad. I dont understand how you can be morally serious and make such a claim. What about the woman Fraulein Friesel, a woman in Austria.
@40something100 Whos father locked her up in a dungeon for 24 years and came down most nights to rape and sodomize her, often in front of the children, who were born in neglect out of this incest. Imagine how she must have begged him, must have pleaded, imagine for how long. Imagine when she turned to god, and for 24 years, nothing. Not one thing. Finally he was captured and sentenced to life in prison which for him was not long, he died after a few years. But you christians cop out and say
@Patriots09ist first off you don't know if she ever asked god for help, you'd have to ask her that. secondly, think about this there is no afterlife, no judgement of god, the father paid no real consequence for his actions did he. he lived a life free of guilt and morallity doing exactly as he desired and being dead it's as if he never lived at all, to him anyway, the girl is still here living with the consequences of his actions and he is off to oblivion. tthere is no justice then.
Who says there HAS to be punishment and/or justice? Life doesn't HAVE to be "fair".
Let's flip the question around and assume Xianity has it right: if Hitler had sincerely repented before dying (not by suicide, this time) he would have gone to heaven, escaping both earthly and godly punishment. The Xian system allows this; is it fair?
@JMUDoc ok lets assume hitler did convert, and that his conversion was true then he would have surrendered, and then faced the warcrimes tribunial and been sentenenced to death. he would have faced mans justice but, god would have forgiven him. how do i know he would have surrendered, because his conversion would have demanded himto do so. you cannot be a christian and a world conquerer at the same time.
@JMUDoc well if thats the case the bible is explicit in it's teaching that deathbed conversions are not accepted, so in that case hitler goes to hell.
I can't find any explicit prohibition of deathbed/last breath conversions; the Bible merely strongly suggests that people to repent as soon as possible. I'd be happy to be enlightened by a verse.
The case of Dismas is of interest, however - he gets the blessing of Jesus himself, despite having been an incredulous mocker right up to that point.
@JMUDoc although there is no explicit verse that states deathbed conversions are unacceptable, i must sat this that if the person who repents on their deathbed doesn't receive forgiveness without baptism. if the person in question was a former christian who fell away then suddenly repents i cannot say. i have to qualify what a christian is because there are many who claim the title but, are in fact not christians. a person must be baptized to receive forgiveness.cont..
@40something100 one cannot be a christian without receiving forgiveness, a christian is one who adheres to christ's teachings, part of christ's teachings is that we are to follow his commands, one of them being not to add to or take away from his commands. if we do either then we are not following him and are not christians. so if a person ignores the command to be baptized then on his deathbed repents and asks god to forgive him, he doesn't get it, no baptisim no forgiveness.
@JMUDoc the theif on the cross, when jesus said today you'll be in paradise, you have to take into account the time at which it took place. jesus said not one jot or tittle shall pass until all is fulfilled. he was talking about the old law being done away with and the new ( which is the gospel and christ's teachings) would take it's place. jesus also says that a testament is of no affect until the death of the testater. the theif was under the old law when he asked christ to remember him. cont.
@40something100 as christ had not fulfilled all that he came to do. he would not accomplish this until the day of pentecost when the kingdom of heaven the was spoken of during his ministeries was delivered to men with power as was promised this being the first sermen by peter and others spoke to the crowds and those hearing heard in their own language. until that time, the old law was still in force. god ended the jewish laws forever when in 70 ad rome destroyed jeruselem and the temple. cont
@40something100 and in the process destroied the documents jewish law required to trace family liniage as only certain lines could be priests. so, today the nation of iseral is not the chosen people that so many so called christian groups believe, but we are all called to obey. the belief that the temple will be rebuilt and god will send christ to rule the world from jersuelem is a load of crap. the jews have no special claim on the land as the promise was conditional on obedience they failed.
Has all come to pass? No - there's stuff still happening. I'm typing, for example :). Thus, the old law is still in effect.
Unless you interpret "all has come to pass" as "all my (Jesus') work has been done", in which case why is that the "correct" interpretation? Or is it just how you WANT to interpret it?
@JMUDoc the term jesus used is until all is fulfilled, so we are left with the question what is to be fulfilled? the answer to that is all that was prophesied concerning jesus. how do we know this is correct, it is because the overall theme of the bible is how to get to heaven, the old testament laws were a symbol of what god required in order for man to obtain this the sacrifices, the removal of sin placed on the back of something else( they goat was used in old testament) cont.
@40something100 the spilling of blood and the use of blood to cleanse (blood sprinkled in the temple) but the blood of animals was not good enough to remove sin, god demanded a perfect sacrifice. and the old testament prophicies told of one to come who would be able to accomplish that, jesus was the perfect sacrifice, he kept the law without fault he was sinless in life.(he is credited with this at least) and so was undeserving of death. he willingly sacrificed himself, cont..
@40something100 as was prophesied, this act made it possible to obtain forgiveness of sin and thereby saving us. he also made some prophesies while alive he prophesied of the comming kingdom, and told the apostles when it would arrive. it was once all prophicies were fulfilled that the old law was to be taken away and the new, which made salvation possible took effect.
So if the old laws have been rescinded, does that the mean the ten commandments (and the six hundred and odd subsequent ones) no longer apply? You can see the confusion.
On a tangent, I took issue with this:
"the spilling of blood and the use of blood to cleanse (blood sprinkled in the temple) but the blood of animals was not good enough to remove sin, god demanded a perfect sacrifice."
Why is ANY sacrifice necessary? Why does this god enjoy the smell of blood so much?
@JMUDoc the old laws are indeed recinded, the ten commandments are not in effect. however if you look at what jesus teaches some of the same commands are taught. as far as requiring blood, we can look at life itself, you realize that even in the natural world the sme concept is followed, in order for one thing to live another must die. everything that lives depends on something else, even plants. they consume the energy from the sun and earth and in a way they sacrifice themselves for life.
True - animals eat plants and other animals... because they HAVE to (and, arguably, because your god MADE them that way). The question remains, but I'll phrase it more directly:
Could god, if he wanted to, forgive everybody's sins WITHOUT demanding any sacrifices? If so (given he's all-powerful I assume he could have), why didn't he, and why did he wait so long before introducing Jesus? There were thousands of years of sin he could have avoided.
@JMUDoc sorry i took so long to respond. i am a refrigeration mech. and am on call, had to go work. icecream was melting. as for your question, yes he could have done it anyway he chose to, why he did it the way he did i can't say, it's like asking why did they make cars with only two headlights when six gives much more light. the creator decides how to create, without reguard to the wishes or approval of the created. it is theirs to do with as they see fit and however they decide to do it is ok
You don't know why god requires sacrifice - a completely honest answer if ever there was one :)
The next question is, don't you think it's strange that a god WOULD demand sacrifices? What could an ALL-POWERFUL BEING possibly get from these offerings that he couldn't make for himself?
The sacrifices can't just be for our benefit, as god made "the ultimate sacrifice" of Jesus. Sacrifices seem to be in the rulebook for him as well...
@JMUDoc there is something that maybe you can answer you don't seem to find it strange that we have to kill something in order to live but find it strange that god would require the same when it comes to eternal life, why do you think it strange that he would follow the same pattern that he used for the natural world in reguards to the eternal one? he is not constrained to require sacrifice but has decided to set it up that way.
"you don't seem to find it strange that we have to kill something in order to live but find it strange that god would require the same when it comes to eternal life [...]"
There it is again - we HAVE to kill things - no CHOICE. God HAS choices. Don't you think a moral god would AVOID sacrifices having to be made in his name if he could? I do! In fact, I reckon the MOST moral god would have just forgiven us or made us UNABLE to sin in the first place.
@40something100 if i had to try and give a logical answer to your question i would have to say that when god commanded that adam not eat of the tree of knowledge under penalty of death and he broke that command, he did indeed die, not physically but spiritually, spiritual death is seperation from god, and in order for adam and man as a whole to regain their spiritual life then something had to take their place, since the command was physical in nature then a physical death was required.
@40something100 Oh, Its all well and good because that score will later be settled. This is not moral, this is a wicked cowardly cop out and a pathetic excuse for morality and justice and life, and it deserves our scorn because of it. Now, I want you to go and think about the problem of evil because I guarantee you, any response you immediately give, I will debunk. The problem of evil is unsolvable, and no one has given me a satisfactory reply. So consider these words like you did before because
@40something100 Lessons can be learned without his interference because he always makes things worse. Hes killed over 8 million people you know. You call that working things for good? The bible is a lie, and full of weak morals and outdated ideals
@40something100 I have no wish to be his puppet, I have no wish to be his slave. I will leave that to the christians. I am stronger and wiser and happier knowing that I have no horrible cruel master strengthening me at his own whim, and weakening me with the same. I am forging ahead and he cannot hold me back.
@40something100 And some of his laws are the dumbest ever. A menstruating woman is unclean?You can be absolved of sin by piling the sins on a goat? We can never take off our relatives clothes? What if they are sick and old and need help performing basic functions? Exodus 21:7 allows selling daughters into slavery. Exodus 35:2 says DEATH for those who merely WORK ON A SUNDAY!! Leviticus 11:7 forbids touching the skin of a dead pig, meaning that football is SINFUL!!
@Patriots09ist the mensturating woman and the like are ritual laws, and sins were not absolved on the backs of goats, the goat was used to symbolize god's willingness to let it slide for a while so to speak. it was kind of like pushing the sins of the people forward in time, but the sins were not forgiven. it was a sin to see your relatives naked whats so dumb about that? i'm not sure i'd want to see an 90 yr. lady naked anyway.
@40something100 No it wasn't. He literally instructed them that a man who touches a menstruating female shall be unclean. Leviticus 15:18-27 HARPS on how unclean this chick is. Its like she's spreading AIDS. That has nothing to do with ritual that has to do with conduct among people. About the goat, god says that one shall be sacrificed to him (talk about pathetic vanity) and one shall be used for atonement, the sins of the tribe piled upon it by god and driven into the wilderness of Azazel
@Patriots09ist it is ritualistic law there were instructions for the women to follow a ritual which had to be performed before being considered clean and a ritual for the one who touched her to be cleaned. these rituals were conducted by the priests.
@40something100 Ok, and THATS A STUPID LAW! We, with science, know that its complete crap, and yet and all knowing all powerful god told them to do this. Furthermore if god was so powerful, why make women so dirty? You may respond because Eve fucked up, well then, why did God punish her THAT Way, when, in fact all he told about his punishment to her was that giving birth was going to hurt
@Patriots09ist well i agree it doesn't seem to make much sense to me either, you know the women were required to leave camp during that time as well. maybe pms was rampet and that was the way god decided it was best that way, so the men would kill them for their wild mood swings.
@40something100 An all knowing all powerful god should and would know that PMS is nothing to worry about. He would be needlessly scaring his followers into unnecessary rituals and practices when there is no problem. After all, HE created it. So at the very least it's god being a prick......again.
@40something100 Furthermore, does a whole town have to be together to stone a farmer who plants two different crops side by side. And im guessing you in your closet or laundry basket, you have a shirt or pair of pants made from a cotton/wool/polyester mix in some way? Should you burn yourself or ask someone to do it for you because you own a piece of clothing made from two different types of thread?
Religion is so corrupted and that is why there are atheists. Too many bad experienced with so called Christians, but they never live by the book as they claim. I think athiests has a much better chance going to heaven than the so-called christian who does not live by the book. God only offers forgiveness to those who are worthy and I had found that athiest live by the book than most christians do.
patsaxon 2 weeks ago
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Go check out my videos "Religion is ridiculous" (specifically Christianity)....good stuff, rate it!!! Christians i CHALLENGE you to watch with an open mind. Athiests go watch and if you like give them a thumbs up! Help spread the truth!
gasmask4poop 3 weeks ago
OMG I love u hahahaha
focusontheargument 1 month ago
i just love listening to reason
ba252504 1 month ago
@acr08807: Everyday is a test from God and it is up to you to prove God wrong. Most true Christians sacrifice so much, due to their faith and that is why you see many Christian in poverty, sicken with illness, and willing to die for God. Remember, what is given is not yours to keep.
patsaxon 1 month ago
@patsaxon
sorry but religion is nonsense. another test from god? please.
raidersSolja 2 weeks ago
@patsaxon Amen. You never see atheists willing to die for God. I hate to use immoderate language, but what more proof do you need that atheists are a bunch of pussies?
acr08807 2 weeks ago
@user1maximum: If you do not pray for it, you will never get a miracle and that is the truth. Try to convince over a billion Christians and jews that they are living in a fantasy world, and tell them that God does not exist. You are all out numbered, maybe you are the one who is missing out?
patsaxon 1 month ago
@patsaxon A few thousands years ago, NOBODY knew the Earth was a round-shaped object floating in space. Being a majority (or a great number) doesn't make people right. That's not logic, that's sheep mentality. And on a side note, you follow one religions amongst many many others currently existing in the world. You are as outnumbered as atheists are.
bobkool 1 month ago
You must pray for it and since you do not believe in God, then you do not deserve an miracle. Due to the mercy of God, It is a miracle that we are given one more day to live each day. We are given a chance each day to welcome God in our life, so we can be ready to come home when our time has ended.
patsaxon 1 month ago
@patsaxon If only you knew just how ridiculously stupid you sound
user1maximus 1 month ago
@patsaxon It's a real wonder that God even bothers to give the atheists the miracle of one more day to live each day. It's not like the good old days, when God wasn't afraid to roll up his sleeves and kill the folks who didn't toe His line. Do you think God's just gone too soft?
acr08807 1 month ago
@acr08807
wow i cant believe i read that. is god some kind of dictator or something?
raidersSolja 2 weeks ago
@raidersSolja Excellent analogy. Yes, God is a dictator. If you don't praise Him constantly, if you disagree with any of His rules, if you support one of His rivals, if you try to think for yourself, you will go to the gulag we call Hell. When Jesus said "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" in Matthew 25:40, I think He meant it.
acr08807 2 weeks ago
Inflation affects everything.
RadarKat73080 1 month ago
I think it's a miracle that atheists have a TV show in Texas.
acr08807 2 months ago 2
@acr08807 amen
beenn15 1 month ago
If Xianity survives another 2 000 years (let's hope not), there will almost certainly be reports of miracles that were happening NOW. God will have killed Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden, directly caused the collapse of WTC (no hijackers involved), and prevented several asteroid impacts.
JMUDoc 2 months ago 2
Who are you?
eternitywithjesus888 3 months ago
I personally feel that we don't see miracles today, because too many people want to see them just for proof that God exists. And God clearly states not to challenge Him. I can't say this is true, but it's how I see it. I do believe miracles do happen, but because Christ isn't walking around, there's no need for coverage. But even as a Christian, I do have these same questions. I guess you can call me a Christian with common sense and an open mind, lol.
matrix86 3 months ago
@matrix86 James Randi has stated clearly he will pay 1 million dollars to Anyone who can demonstrate a miracle under scrutiny. Don't you see if miracles or the supernatural existed, Randi would have had to pay up?
Lennon4ever1 3 months ago 3
@matrix86 I understand why made-up religions say that their gods don't want to be challenged. If they claim that their religion yields miracles, but can never produce anything that is unambiguously miraculous, it's pretty easy to see that they're frauds. For them, "don't challenge our god" is just covering their tracks. But since God is real, that can't be His reason. So why is God afraid of being challenged?
acr08807 1 month ago
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If you don't believe the Bible in front of you,you want believe if another rises from the dead! Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
chroniccolor 4 months ago
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blackbat1339 4 months ago
@blackbat1339
Sarcasm.
It's apparently broken.
Moreba 4 months ago
@blackbat1339 lmfao
gamesrgreat 3 months ago
@mnoguera13 (cont.) I'm just saying that in my opinion it is far more reasonable to suspect that this story came about by human error, human resiliency, and dumb luck, even in outrageously improbable circumstances, than it is to suspect that a being of a kind never before observed by humans magically (and that is as close of a word as is appropriate for making blood come from nowhere) replaced his plasma and kick-started his heart all without physically touching him. Wouldn't you agree?
Deanbass77 4 months ago
@mnoguera13 It'd take a lot more than a bullet wound to totally drain someone of blood, but it could have caused exsanguination, death caused by blood loss of 40% or more. However, I believe people can recover from that if treated properly, as they should have been on the ambulance ride. Also human error has to be take into account when pronouncing, EMT's don't need even half as much training to get the job as a doctor does. Not trying to make excuses, just pointing out some alternatives...
Deanbass77 4 months ago
I see miracles every day: how people can be so miraculously stupid!
Xanatos712 4 months ago
Ive also witnessed many miracles, so I think it depends on the individual.
Mediumchild 4 months ago
@mnoguera13 Bullets have a tendency to continue working their way into the body if they hit in the right place. The man might have been shot in a non-fatal area of the head (not that rare), bled from the wound, then the bullet moved into a position that cut off the blood flow and allowed the blood to coagulate. The 2 hour wait is what explains it, any blood lost would have replenished fully after 2 hours. Allowing that he may have just been revived in time. At least more likely than god did it..
Deanbass77 4 months ago
On the contrary, God still provides miracles to this day.
SummerSunshine1988 4 months ago
@SummerSunshine1988 Which god? Odin, Thor? Shiva, Krishna, Zeus, Hades, Apollo? And where do you have the evidence to support this?
MarcusEFN 4 months ago
@MarcusEFN : Jesus Christ is the one true God.
SummerSunshine1988 4 months ago
@SummerSunshine1988 How do you know? Because your bible says so?
MarcusEFN 4 months ago
@MarcusEFN : Because I have seen His power at work with my own eyes.
SummerSunshine1988 4 months ago
@SummerSunshine1988 And i was kidnapped by a UFO, We went on a ride across the Universe and ate ice cream.
MarcusEFN 4 months ago
@dejesuluisx
Facts are not determined by the majority. To lock your mentality into a box of unprovable convictions based on books written by fallible, bronze age men, and then call ANYONE narrow-minded for questioning their veracity is hypocrisy in the highest degree.
The atheist does not claim disproof of God; he/she disbelieves the case you make for his existence, and is ENTITLED to demand evidence from you if you insist that he/she should share your belief.
SpaceOdyssey56 4 months ago
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God exists, that's the accepted claim by the majority of people, you want to challenge that, bring the evidence, the burden of proof is on YOU. Some narrow minded atheist proposed the wrong notion that atheism doesn't require evidence and many gullible atheists had run to foolishly embrace it. Philosophically the burden of proof is in the argument challenging the establishment. What evidence you have that atheism is true? None, zero, nada. Open your eyes, you're being deceived by an evil cult.
dejesusluisx 4 months ago
If all these biblical miracles really had occurred, there would have been THOUSANDS of witnesses to them - and therefore thousands of disciples to spread the word throughout the world.
Instead, all but a very few went back to their normal everyday activities as if miracle-working were the norm. Very very hard to impress, these ancients.
crapatev 4 months ago
This reminds me of the monster in the closet thing. He's only there when you can't see him.
skywize 4 months ago
We actually do see miracles every day. For example, how do magnets work? Magic everywhere in this bitch.
HardforJesus 5 months ago 13
@HardforJesus fucking miracles! (._.)/
ThatOneGothGuy 2 months ago
@hempartist420 A lot of Christians seem to treat the bible like a lot of people treat the terms and conditions of computer programs.
They just scroll to the bottom and click "I agree"
boochainletters12 5 months ago
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@boochainletters12 "A lot of Christians seem to treat the bible like a lot of people treat the terms and conditions of computer programs.
They just scroll to the bottom and click "I agree"'
Nice analogy!
crapatev 4 months ago
OMG I JUST SURVIVED A PLANE CRASH. ITS A MIRACLE IM HERE BUT EVERYONE ELSE IS DEAD! GOD MUST REALLY HAD HIS ANGELS PROTECTING ME AND ME A LONE. BECAUSE IM SPECIAL IN MANY WAYS
FTWization 5 months ago
OH Shit, they made a mistake about the book of fairytales. I guess god is real. My sister once told me “Luke is Vader’s father.” I guess Star Wars is real too.
A55TRICKY 5 months ago
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I guess they just went out of style lol.
brongarago 5 months ago
Little bit of a mistake there, Atlas carried the heavens on his back not the earth.
gazthefunky39 5 months ago
OMG I FOUND MY CAR KEYS, ITS A MIRACLE FROM THE SWEET BABY JESUS!
ViperRob42 6 months ago 21
@ViperRob42 Car keys? I'd believe it.
TuahShinguru 4 months ago
All of it is made up stories. If god is the same everyday then why aren't people getting healed by praying? When we all get sick we go to doctors to prescribe meds. When u get a headache let's see if u can live without aspirin. I believe in science medicine and naturality. Not some supernatural being or some man name Jesus. No miracles are happening today.
lovergal1984 6 months ago
@lovergal1984 No miracles ever happened, it's like gravity, not just a good idea, It's the LAW!!!
Ludd3332 5 months ago
I remember when I was very young in catechism. I heard the story of abraham and lasherus and I thought to myself "isn't that kinda mean?".
Lathox 6 months ago
We don't see miracles today because God is too busy sending hurricanes to punish the wicked. Duh.
wasilewski91 6 months ago
@wasilewski91 Nah, he's too busy watching people having sex to care about anything else, seeing as how homosexuality is a more important threat to humanity than famine
Tarynus 5 months ago
i really don think these people know a thing about God and what they're talking about.
id wish they picked up my calls i would love to talk with them.
juan95815 6 months ago
@juan95815 I don't think you know as much about "God" as you think you do.
Talk about what, Pascal's Wager? Make an argument from design? Say that life is too complex therefore a wizard did it? Please, get real. Religious arguments are so old and outdone they're laughable. Just stay here in Youtube, you'll get all the refuting you want. Or head over to ironchariots(dot)org and type in your favorite argument.
wasilewski91 6 months ago
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There's no need to see miracles because the miracles from the bible that already have been preformed, people have witnessed, just like how people witness wars, we weren't there but we believe in what people say they witnessed from reading text books.
God cant heal you, if you don't have faith in him He will heal you.
My God He Is, My God He Was, My God Will Always Be - Revelations 1:4
juan95815 6 months ago
@juan95815 There was a family a few years ago who believed their daughter would be saved by god and medicine was unnecessary. She had type two diabetes, which is easily treatable with prescription drugs, and suffered for about a month in her bed whilst the parents committed second degree murder by supplementing available medicines with prayer. Are you seriously saying the only reason she died is because she personally didn't believe in god? That's ridiculous.
onelongwordable 4 months ago
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juan95815 6 months ago
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juan95815 6 months ago
just the fact you survive trhou the day, that you didnt died yesterday is a miracle you know is like luck man
luckytom13 6 months ago
Hey god. I'm gonna fire up the grill for dinner tonight (I know how much you enjoy sacrificing animals). Come on over and sit a spell. I'd love to chat. SRSLY, don't be such a stranger.
rmcdaniel423 6 months ago
@hempartist420 careful now, asserting that god doesn't exist requires evidence. i'll let that slide though because i know what you really mean is that you don't believe god exists because ther is no evidence that he does. i think we've gotten off topic though, looking back at the previous posts.
40something100 6 months ago
@hempartist420 and how do you know what the best plan is, if you don't know the possible outcome of any given decision how can you say that you can do a better job than god. the answer is you can't. the plan god uses is the best, he is omnipotent,therefore knows all the possible outcomes and can therefore determine the best plan. you can't even tell what will happen 5 min. from now, let alone the best plan for man. you obviously think god is retarded to think you can do better than him.
40something100 6 months ago
@hempartist420 i'm sorry, i didn't know you could see every possible outcome of every action made by man. so tell me oh wise one what will my future hold, and please be specific. if you find that you can't perform this task, then your accusation that god has taken the least productive route is false. and by the way, try to get a better grasp of biblical teachings, there will be no actual fire in hell, that is an attempt to desribe the undescribable. the spiritual realm is not physical in any way
40something100 6 months ago
@hempartist420 you are right we kill in order to live. god doesn't make us kill so he can play with the blood, but you don't see a problem with killing a cow to eat it and live, but you find it wierd that god would choose to follow the same pattern when it comes to your eternal life.(assuming you have a soul that is eternal). why is that? the pattern i am talking about is that in order for one thing to live something else must die.
40something100 6 months ago
11:30 here, gotta hit the rack, even though we will probobly never agree on the subject i have enjoyed our conversation, and i appreciate you not stooping to ad hominem attacks.
40something100 7 months ago
gotta go to work later.
40something100 7 months ago
".. back then they would call anything a mirical because they didnt understand how it happend".
Right. And that's why we need to dump all religions. Now that we understand how it all happened, we don't need the fairy tales anymore.
Brenda2OOO 7 months ago
we dont have miricals any more because we understan and can explain what happend. back then they would call anything a mirical because they didnt understand how it happend. religion is an excuse for ignorance - willy
bigwillchill 7 months ago
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check it out please.. /watch?v=jmyYAPeyfFY
and yeshu will save your life if you belive in him.. there will come many .. and no peace.. first the decieving.. and then if u stay with yehshu and DO NOT BELIVE IN THE DECIEVERS than u will see what's happening =)
belive me.. they wanna decieve me too men.. i am your proof.. let me be the one who tell you in the name of ישוע that they tried to decieve me haaard and badly.. but now .. i'm still praying to Ḡòḍ and belive in ישוע
ItalyStyler07 7 months ago
@thatamazinggeek gods desire is for us to love him, which way demonstrates our love greater, if he were to give us undeniable proof, or if we love him without it. who demonstrates the greater love?
40something100 8 months ago
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Periph1989 8 months ago
@40something100 No the question makes sense, but I think it's flawed. It would show greater love of US to love him without proof of his existence, but that does not prove that he exists. Besides, I am far more LIKELY to show love to someone who I know exists, not someone I have to have faith in.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist it was not intended to prove he exists. let me ask you this, how did god come into the thoughts of man, we know that every ancient culture, no matter how old, had a god. why?
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 Ah, a very good question. I love it. Descartes actually was the one who voiced it, however badly, claiming that he could concieve of an infinitely perfect being, one that had total control. The problem with this theory was that they only concieved of this being when they realized the alternative sucked. The human race is very nihilophobic, in that the idea that there is nothing after death scares the hell out of them. Dostoevsky in the brothers Karamatzov, made his character.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist interesting, iv'e asked that question to many and have never been offered the one you give. i will have to give it it's due consideration.
40something100 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist so , being in a state where we only understand life, i think it logical to conclude that humans presume life as eternal, if there is no death then life is eternal. the fear comes not from not having an afterlife, but, the fear arises from what the afterlife will bring. to me, knowing there was no afterlife would be more of a relief, and would give me freedoms i don't have now, namely guilt, it would be a life with no real consequences, the most that coulod happen is i die.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 first of all no one is claiming that life is eternal. Nothing is eternal. Eternality is impossible. The fear arises from whether the afterlife will exist. CHRISTIAN fear lies in what the afterlife will bring, because they are SO SURE that there is an afterlife in the first place. And also atheists reject the idea that a lack of an afterlife negates morality. In fact that is a very common arrogant Christian mistake when thinking of an atheist.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist and as horrible as that may sound i wouldn't know it once dead. a life of guiltless pleasure, able to do what ever stikes my fancy, mass murder, rape, or whatever, if you didn't like it so what the most you could do is kill me. i have nothing else to pay, but , because with an understanding of an afterlife that was a natural part of our thought process, there is a fear, that our deeds will follow us beyond the grave. we have to convience ourselves that death is the end.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 You wouldnt have guiltless pleasures, because the morals of man would still exist.Atheists are bound by a utilitarian philosophy. you could say that there is no reason we act morally. And you might be right, AND YET WE ARE MORAL ANYWAY. No one needs a reason to be moral, in fact, I find that being moral, because God says so, or because you will be judged less harshly after death to be a disgusting proposition, because it takes altruism totally out of the mix.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist it is not that we are moral because god says so, there are lots of decent moral people who want to have nothing to do with god. heaven and hell are not solely dependant on morals, we say that god sets the moral standards making them objective, not subjective, which is what morals are in the hand of men. aquiring heaven requires a life of obedience and personal sacrifice, meaning we give up things that others enjoy, but those thing may not be morally wrong, but are best for us.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 Ok, then what else is heaven and hell dependant on, if not merely morality? Morals in the hand of god are ALSO subjective, because even if he is god, that doesnt make him right, and the ones who claim that DOES make him right can only say that he is right because he is god, which is one of the dumbest possible answers. Obedience and personal sacrifice are considered virtues, because they are good, meaning that it does have to do with morality, and even if it doesnt, thats a weak
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist a virtue the same thing as morals, morals have to do with how we treat each other, and interact with each other. someone who is virtueous is most likely going to have good morals as they go hand in hand with each other. but having good morals doesn't make you virtueous. gods moral laws are not subjective, they do not change because god's character doesn't change. all of the moral laws of the O.T. were carried over to the N.T. through christs teaching. the ritual laws
40something100 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist were done away with, because they were given to the jews, and when christ came, a new set of laws were given to replace them but were given to all people of every nation, the o.t. laws could not save the soul, and were not given to accomplish that but were given as a means of preperation for the arrival of christ. christ fullfilled the o.t. laws by living perfectly keeping all of them without fault.
40something100 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist as far as what it takes besides moral obiedence, there are some ritual observences, like communion, observence of the first day of the week to come together in worship, worship must be performed according to the way he wants, and many others. even jesus says their will be alot of good decent deeply religious people who will not obtain heaven.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 Not all Christians practice those rituals. Second, Gods morals change all the time. Example, first off, Adam and Eve could not eat animals, but Noah could. Third, are you telling me that God made the morals and laws, If so, you would have to admit that in the several days before the Israelites reached mount Sinai, they were under the impression that killing and rape and terror was ok, only to find out in Exodus and Leviticus that it was not?
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist third, god did not have to put moral laws in print, these laws are a part of knowing good from evil,they are imbedded in human nature. cain knew that killing his brother was wrong, long before moses. however man makes moral laws subjective to justify himself, god objectified moral law when he gave them to moses, so that no one could make them subjective without going against god's law.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 If they are truly embedded in human nature, WHY ARE THEY IN THE BIBLE?! what makes God's laws objective. They are no different then things that please him. what makes him so special? God has broken more of his own laws, then anyone. Especially the 7 deadly sins, except for lust, where he's a total prude, ensuring that if he doesnt get any, there need to be strict laws governing when people get laid. He's killed more people than anyone else, and we are supposed to worship THAT?!
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist lets take thou shall not steal as example, a person doesn't have to be taught that stealing is wrong, a child may not understand but at a certain point in life everyone realizes this there is a feeling og guilt that accompinies the act. however man who is starving may subjectify this law to justify his actions, but god objectified the law and even though starving it is still wrong to steal, the same thing goes for lying, have you seen the atheist life v. religious life vid?
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 Yeah because man has created the law that punishes the thief. Its not a feeling of guilt, its one of getting caught! Especially since atheists only make up 5% of the US prison population, so its no fear of God that stops these men, its the fear of getting caught by the law, so they devise other more clever methods of stealing, like running for office for example. No I havent seen that vid, but I bet it would back up a lot of cliche's and fallacies.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist i'd like to see that pole, i wonder how many of those prison christians were actually calling themselves christian before going to jail. are you afraid to steal only because you might get caught? i think not.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 Yes. I am. I fear no god, and fear none of his laws. I also wont steal because a society cannot function if everyone does it. That fuels my morality. Its the one thing from Immanuel Kant I have sympathy for. This POLL was taken was in 1997, so it is old, but there is no reason why it would change so dramatically. Back then it was 2.1 percent, and in 2008 it had rose to 5%. You do the math on that rate of expansion.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist i was just wondering how many of those in prison who claimed to be christian became so after they were in prison. it may not be much different but prison does have a way to change a persons way of thinking and religion is promoted in many prisons.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 Why would they lie? Yeah it does, including Christians who would sell their faith out. An atheist has nothing to gain by lying about his faith. And if he does gain favor by identifying as a Christian, that sickens me and how far we have sunk.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist i'm not saying they lied, i'm wondering more of how the question was posed. did the simply ask convicts if they were christians or did they ask were you a christian before going to prision the results might vary widely depending on how you ask the question.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 No, they asked, what is your faith? .2 percent said none/atheist. 30-40 percent said Christian. another 15-20 Muslim, then Jewish, Hindu, etc.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist exactly so, i wonder how many of those claiming a religious affiliation converted after they were in prison, and how many had no religious affiliation prior.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 Possible, but doubtful, and if so, it wouldnt account for much, and even if it did, thats just religion being a tool for an immoral man. Im about to be executed lets convert so that I can save my ass right before I die, just in case. Its pathetic.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist i don't think people convert to religion because they decide to take up pascals wager, i think it is from a sense of despair, in fact i think that most people who claim to be atheists are not really, they just have not sunk down to a level of dispair in which they feel god is their only hope, and may never get to that point before they die.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 Well yeah, duh. Of course they do. That's another pathetic argument for the existence of God. Their conversion is false, because its not from the heart and it's not sincere. Its not just a sense of despair its a selfish urge to try and get last minute salvation. But they dont hedge their bets, they just go for the freak chance.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist one doesn't have to be facing death to be at a point of asking for god's help, people reach that point at different points, it may take death for some for others it may be a life in prison, or the death of someone close, it is the point where one feels so alone or can see no way out of their prediciment and find no one to help them. that does not make their conversion false, it makes them more staunch in their belief, because it provides them with what they seek, comfort.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 Yeah, but there are those more reasonable who pull out a big boy spine and figure life out for themselves. I did. I almost died from a suicidal depression. For months I begged and pleaded to god and for months, nothing, not one thing, just me. And from nothing, I found the strength, not from some asshole god, or his weak son, but me I found the strength and anger and passion to keep living. From my passion, I gained strength, through strength, power, through power, victory.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist you begged and pleaded? what did you want from god? i attempted suicide myself once, when i was 19. it was after that that i decided to give god my life, to do my best to follow his precepts, i didn't expect any miracles or have come down and wisper in my ear what i should do. but my life changed, i changed it, but i give god the credit for giving me the strength to change it.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 I begged and pleaded for him to get me out of the Rehab center i was in. God gave me no strength and it makes me sad that christians thank him for their success when it was all them. Because getting out of that hellhole was all me, and I am stronger for it.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist you asked god for strength, then as you said you found the strenght and anger and passion to accomplish your goal. sounds to me like you got exactly what you asked for. did you expect god to magically cure you. and let you walk out the door the same day? is that why you don't give god the credit?
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 Not from him. At least if it was a god it wasnt the christian god. Anger and strength and passion are not his style. I got what I want after 4 months of suffering, and the work still isnt done. You happen to think that the belief in god is true and that he gave you the strength, but there is no good reason for anyone else to say it's true. I choose to credit myself, because I survived. Without him. I felt no sense of fulfillment or grace or presence in the lord, I felt only rage
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist well that's the difference between you and i, you seem to think that god should do things the way you think they should be done or else you credit him nothing, i think that god helped me the way he saw as best, because all i was doing was screwing everything up which is why i got in the position i was in.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 Thats not at all what I think. I think he should stay out of human affairs altogether. If he created us great, now go away. We all grow to a certain age where we can take care of ourselves and we move out of our parents homes. It should be no different with God, in fact if I could start my life over, I would kick him out of it earlier. I dont want to credit him with good or bad. Its time people took responsibility for their actions whether good actions or bad actions.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@40something100 Rage that I was there for so long. That I had pissed away four months of my life. Months that I later found out I never needed to spend there and there was an easier way for me to get the help I needed. Faith is weak, faith is not wanting to believe what is true, and faith held me back.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@40something100 You have your rules and your religion all designed to keep you safe, but when rules start getting broken, you start questioning your faith. I have a voice and its my savior, hates to love and loves to hate. But at the same time, it is me. I am my own god, my own savior, my own strength, my own life, and I love myself because of it. God puts you in these horrible situations and then gives you the strength to get out of it, what did you do? If he was testing you, he wouldnt give
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@40something100 you strength, he would want you to get out of it by yourself, but what kind of bastard flings tests at someone like that. To test their faith? I have no faith, what is there to test? He's testing me for no reason, when I didnt even sign up for the class! And if he's NOT testing you, then why does he let such bad things happen to you?
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist my religion is not designed to keep me safe that is so far from the truth it's laughable. i am subject to the same trials of life as everyone else, god never promises to keep you from anything this life brings. he only promises to work everything in you life for good, doesn't mean i won't suffer anything but that at the end of the day i'll be better off than i was, it is the trials in life we face that make us stronger, but only if we have the strength to overcome them.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 that was a song lyric actually, forgot to omit that part. Second, are you really telling me that AIDS, crack babies, Justin Beiber, the Nazis, and the latin grammies etc are all things that can be worked for GOOD?! There is no WAY im buying that. THAT is so far from the truth it's laughable. Romans 8:28 is used cliche, keep it out of this conversation. I never asked for these trials.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist no you didn't ask for these trials, neither did i, but we face them just the same.i'm sorry but i can't ignore something that i am icovienced of even if you think it is a cliche. and yes aids crack babies and such can be worked for good, they can change lives and save souls. i don't know about ole J.B., that kid kinda rubs me the wrong way,especially his hair cut.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 How can those be worked for good? What good comes out of a massive fatal disease and babies addicted to crack? If anything thats proof that christians should let more abortions through. This bores me. They cant change lives they can't save souls and god is not the answer or the solution. He is the problem. Whether he exists or not, he needs to get out of our lives.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist you must remember that it is a conditional statement, all things work for good to those that love the lord and keep his commandments. not all things work for the good. if you chose, he will leave you to work it out on your own.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 I want him to be completely uninvolved in all lives. We dont need him. Many dont want him. His laws often lead to violence and hurt. And its not a conditional statement. Because its been debunked. The faithful and the faithless both suffer. And not only do bad things happen to good people, but good things can just as easily happen to bad. I dont understand how you can be morally serious and make such a claim. What about the woman Fraulein Friesel, a woman in Austria.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@40something100 Whos father locked her up in a dungeon for 24 years and came down most nights to rape and sodomize her, often in front of the children, who were born in neglect out of this incest. Imagine how she must have begged him, must have pleaded, imagine for how long. Imagine when she turned to god, and for 24 years, nothing. Not one thing. Finally he was captured and sentenced to life in prison which for him was not long, he died after a few years. But you christians cop out and say
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist first off you don't know if she ever asked god for help, you'd have to ask her that. secondly, think about this there is no afterlife, no judgement of god, the father paid no real consequence for his actions did he. he lived a life free of guilt and morallity doing exactly as he desired and being dead it's as if he never lived at all, to him anyway, the girl is still here living with the consequences of his actions and he is off to oblivion. tthere is no justice then.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 Right thats right, but I still think it disgustingly evil that the best comfort you have is offering her a false consolation prize.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@40something100
Who says there HAS to be punishment and/or justice? Life doesn't HAVE to be "fair".
Let's flip the question around and assume Xianity has it right: if Hitler had sincerely repented before dying (not by suicide, this time) he would have gone to heaven, escaping both earthly and godly punishment. The Xian system allows this; is it fair?
JMUDoc 7 months ago
@JMUDoc ok lets assume hitler did convert, and that his conversion was true then he would have surrendered, and then faced the warcrimes tribunial and been sentenenced to death. he would have faced mans justice but, god would have forgiven him. how do i know he would have surrendered, because his conversion would have demanded himto do so. you cannot be a christian and a world conquerer at the same time.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100
Sorry, I should have specified "deathbed conversion" i.e. IMMEDIATELY before dying - he converts, dies immediately. No justice either way.
JMUDoc 7 months ago
@JMUDoc well if thats the case the bible is explicit in it's teaching that deathbed conversions are not accepted, so in that case hitler goes to hell.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100
I can't find any explicit prohibition of deathbed/last breath conversions; the Bible merely strongly suggests that people to repent as soon as possible. I'd be happy to be enlightened by a verse.
The case of Dismas is of interest, however - he gets the blessing of Jesus himself, despite having been an incredulous mocker right up to that point.
JMUDoc 7 months ago
@JMUDoc although there is no explicit verse that states deathbed conversions are unacceptable, i must sat this that if the person who repents on their deathbed doesn't receive forgiveness without baptism. if the person in question was a former christian who fell away then suddenly repents i cannot say. i have to qualify what a christian is because there are many who claim the title but, are in fact not christians. a person must be baptized to receive forgiveness.cont..
40something100 6 months ago
@40something100 one cannot be a christian without receiving forgiveness, a christian is one who adheres to christ's teachings, part of christ's teachings is that we are to follow his commands, one of them being not to add to or take away from his commands. if we do either then we are not following him and are not christians. so if a person ignores the command to be baptized then on his deathbed repents and asks god to forgive him, he doesn't get it, no baptisim no forgiveness.
40something100 6 months ago
@JMUDoc i'm not familier with dismas, was he one of the thieves one the cross?
40something100 6 months ago
@40something100
Indeed he was - the "good" one, obviously :).
JMUDoc 6 months ago
@JMUDoc the theif on the cross, when jesus said today you'll be in paradise, you have to take into account the time at which it took place. jesus said not one jot or tittle shall pass until all is fulfilled. he was talking about the old law being done away with and the new ( which is the gospel and christ's teachings) would take it's place. jesus also says that a testament is of no affect until the death of the testater. the theif was under the old law when he asked christ to remember him. cont.
40something100 6 months ago
@40something100 as christ had not fulfilled all that he came to do. he would not accomplish this until the day of pentecost when the kingdom of heaven the was spoken of during his ministeries was delivered to men with power as was promised this being the first sermen by peter and others spoke to the crowds and those hearing heard in their own language. until that time, the old law was still in force. god ended the jewish laws forever when in 70 ad rome destroyed jeruselem and the temple. cont
40something100 6 months ago
@40something100 and in the process destroied the documents jewish law required to trace family liniage as only certain lines could be priests. so, today the nation of iseral is not the chosen people that so many so called christian groups believe, but we are all called to obey. the belief that the temple will be rebuilt and god will send christ to rule the world from jersuelem is a load of crap. the jews have no special claim on the land as the promise was conditional on obedience they failed.
40something100 6 months ago
@40something100
Has all come to pass? No - there's stuff still happening. I'm typing, for example :). Thus, the old law is still in effect.
Unless you interpret "all has come to pass" as "all my (Jesus') work has been done", in which case why is that the "correct" interpretation? Or is it just how you WANT to interpret it?
JMUDoc 6 months ago
@JMUDoc the term jesus used is until all is fulfilled, so we are left with the question what is to be fulfilled? the answer to that is all that was prophesied concerning jesus. how do we know this is correct, it is because the overall theme of the bible is how to get to heaven, the old testament laws were a symbol of what god required in order for man to obtain this the sacrifices, the removal of sin placed on the back of something else( they goat was used in old testament) cont.
40something100 6 months ago
@40something100 the spilling of blood and the use of blood to cleanse (blood sprinkled in the temple) but the blood of animals was not good enough to remove sin, god demanded a perfect sacrifice. and the old testament prophicies told of one to come who would be able to accomplish that, jesus was the perfect sacrifice, he kept the law without fault he was sinless in life.(he is credited with this at least) and so was undeserving of death. he willingly sacrificed himself, cont..
40something100 6 months ago
@40something100 as was prophesied, this act made it possible to obtain forgiveness of sin and thereby saving us. he also made some prophesies while alive he prophesied of the comming kingdom, and told the apostles when it would arrive. it was once all prophicies were fulfilled that the old law was to be taken away and the new, which made salvation possible took effect.
40something100 6 months ago
@40something100
So if the old laws have been rescinded, does that the mean the ten commandments (and the six hundred and odd subsequent ones) no longer apply? You can see the confusion.
On a tangent, I took issue with this:
"the spilling of blood and the use of blood to cleanse (blood sprinkled in the temple) but the blood of animals was not good enough to remove sin, god demanded a perfect sacrifice."
Why is ANY sacrifice necessary? Why does this god enjoy the smell of blood so much?
JMUDoc 6 months ago
@JMUDoc the old laws are indeed recinded, the ten commandments are not in effect. however if you look at what jesus teaches some of the same commands are taught. as far as requiring blood, we can look at life itself, you realize that even in the natural world the sme concept is followed, in order for one thing to live another must die. everything that lives depends on something else, even plants. they consume the energy from the sun and earth and in a way they sacrifice themselves for life.
40something100 6 months ago
@40something100
True - animals eat plants and other animals... because they HAVE to (and, arguably, because your god MADE them that way). The question remains, but I'll phrase it more directly:
Could god, if he wanted to, forgive everybody's sins WITHOUT demanding any sacrifices? If so (given he's all-powerful I assume he could have), why didn't he, and why did he wait so long before introducing Jesus? There were thousands of years of sin he could have avoided.
JMUDoc 6 months ago
@JMUDoc sorry i took so long to respond. i am a refrigeration mech. and am on call, had to go work. icecream was melting. as for your question, yes he could have done it anyway he chose to, why he did it the way he did i can't say, it's like asking why did they make cars with only two headlights when six gives much more light. the creator decides how to create, without reguard to the wishes or approval of the created. it is theirs to do with as they see fit and however they decide to do it is ok
40something100 6 months ago
@40something100
No apologies needed - I'm enjoying this:)
You don't know why god requires sacrifice - a completely honest answer if ever there was one :)
The next question is, don't you think it's strange that a god WOULD demand sacrifices? What could an ALL-POWERFUL BEING possibly get from these offerings that he couldn't make for himself?
The sacrifices can't just be for our benefit, as god made "the ultimate sacrifice" of Jesus. Sacrifices seem to be in the rulebook for him as well...
JMUDoc 6 months ago
@JMUDoc there is something that maybe you can answer you don't seem to find it strange that we have to kill something in order to live but find it strange that god would require the same when it comes to eternal life, why do you think it strange that he would follow the same pattern that he used for the natural world in reguards to the eternal one? he is not constrained to require sacrifice but has decided to set it up that way.
40something100 6 months ago
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@40something100
"you don't seem to find it strange that we have to kill something in order to live but find it strange that god would require the same when it comes to eternal life [...]"
There it is again - we HAVE to kill things - no CHOICE. God HAS choices. Don't you think a moral god would AVOID sacrifices having to be made in his name if he could? I do! In fact, I reckon the MOST moral god would have just forgiven us or made us UNABLE to sin in the first place.
JMUDoc 6 months ago
@40something100 if i had to try and give a logical answer to your question i would have to say that when god commanded that adam not eat of the tree of knowledge under penalty of death and he broke that command, he did indeed die, not physically but spiritually, spiritual death is seperation from god, and in order for adam and man as a whole to regain their spiritual life then something had to take their place, since the command was physical in nature then a physical death was required.
40something100 6 months ago
@40something100 Oh, Its all well and good because that score will later be settled. This is not moral, this is a wicked cowardly cop out and a pathetic excuse for morality and justice and life, and it deserves our scorn because of it. Now, I want you to go and think about the problem of evil because I guarantee you, any response you immediately give, I will debunk. The problem of evil is unsolvable, and no one has given me a satisfactory reply. So consider these words like you did before because
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@40something100 when you did that you gave me an answer to work with. And you're welcome. Ad hominems are for losers.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@40something100 Lessons can be learned without his interference because he always makes things worse. Hes killed over 8 million people you know. You call that working things for good? The bible is a lie, and full of weak morals and outdated ideals
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@40something100 I have no wish to be his puppet, I have no wish to be his slave. I will leave that to the christians. I am stronger and wiser and happier knowing that I have no horrible cruel master strengthening me at his own whim, and weakening me with the same. I am forging ahead and he cannot hold me back.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@40something100 And some of his laws are the dumbest ever. A menstruating woman is unclean?You can be absolved of sin by piling the sins on a goat? We can never take off our relatives clothes? What if they are sick and old and need help performing basic functions? Exodus 21:7 allows selling daughters into slavery. Exodus 35:2 says DEATH for those who merely WORK ON A SUNDAY!! Leviticus 11:7 forbids touching the skin of a dead pig, meaning that football is SINFUL!!
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist the mensturating woman and the like are ritual laws, and sins were not absolved on the backs of goats, the goat was used to symbolize god's willingness to let it slide for a while so to speak. it was kind of like pushing the sins of the people forward in time, but the sins were not forgiven. it was a sin to see your relatives naked whats so dumb about that? i'm not sure i'd want to see an 90 yr. lady naked anyway.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 No it wasn't. He literally instructed them that a man who touches a menstruating female shall be unclean. Leviticus 15:18-27 HARPS on how unclean this chick is. Its like she's spreading AIDS. That has nothing to do with ritual that has to do with conduct among people. About the goat, god says that one shall be sacrificed to him (talk about pathetic vanity) and one shall be used for atonement, the sins of the tribe piled upon it by god and driven into the wilderness of Azazel
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist it is ritualistic law there were instructions for the women to follow a ritual which had to be performed before being considered clean and a ritual for the one who touched her to be cleaned. these rituals were conducted by the priests.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 Ok, and THATS A STUPID LAW! We, with science, know that its complete crap, and yet and all knowing all powerful god told them to do this. Furthermore if god was so powerful, why make women so dirty? You may respond because Eve fucked up, well then, why did God punish her THAT Way, when, in fact all he told about his punishment to her was that giving birth was going to hurt
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist well i agree it doesn't seem to make much sense to me either, you know the women were required to leave camp during that time as well. maybe pms was rampet and that was the way god decided it was best that way, so the men would kill them for their wild mood swings.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 An all knowing all powerful god should and would know that PMS is nothing to worry about. He would be needlessly scaring his followers into unnecessary rituals and practices when there is no problem. After all, HE created it. So at the very least it's god being a prick......again.
Patriots09ist 7 months ago
@Patriots09ist nothing to worry about tell that to the guy who was set on fire by his wife who got off scott free because of pms.
40something100 7 months ago
i for one am glad i don't live under those old ritual laws.
40something100 7 months ago
@40something100 Furthermore, does a whole town have to be together to stone a farmer who plants two different crops side by side. And im guessing you in your closet or laundry basket, you have a shirt or pair of pants made from a cotton/wool/polyester mix in some way? Should you burn yourself or ask someone to do it for you because you own a piece of clothing made from two different types of thread?
Patriots09ist 7 months ago