RON PAUL heats up the Morning Joe show 12-27-07 Part 1

[agitcam]

This talking head is just disgusting. He demands that Ron Paul admit he was wrong and that he is right. He's a dunce. The phony military jerk is even worse.

[Kurtlane]

Ron Paul never addresses the first issue: it wasn't Lincoln who started the war.

And today one can find any book to support any position and twist any facts into anything.

[OOOOBEY]

@Kurtlane If you do the research, you can find out that the motivations for the war were obviously not for the abolition of slavery originally. Ron Paul's point is simple, the issue of slavery in itself was NOT Mr. Lincolns core reason for defending, continuing, or supporting the war itself. The issue of slavery in itself could have been handled the same way many other industrialized nations handled it, without bloodshed and without the destruction of our own land.

[Kurtlane]

@OOOOBEY, sure, if the Southern states were to agree to end slavery peacefully, it could all be handled without bloodshed.

But they didn't.

Even if they were not to attack Fort Sumpter, maybe the war could have been avoided.

But they attacked it.

So why is Lincoln getting the blame?

[dusfermc]

@Kurtlane read your history and dont always believe the mainstream. The mainstream says that we are out of a recession, do you believe them? I sure dont.

[Kurtlane]

@dusfermc, this is not about recession.

[dusfermc]

@Kurtlane its called an analogy....

[Kurtlane]

@dusfermc, sorry, but I don't think analogy works here. It could be one way on one issue, and another way on the other.

[dusfermc]

@Kurtlane are you an idiot, all im saying is, just becasue someone has said something is correct one way for a hundred years, dosent mean you shouldnt question it yourself, otherwise we would all be mindless drones doing and believing what people tell us.

[Kurtlane]

@dusfermc, why do you say the same thing I say (in your own way) and then call me an idiot?

We should question everyone. Including Ron Paul.

[truevoice08]

WOW! This just shows how much character Ron Paul has. He takes no bullshit from any of these dumb talking heads and defends what he believes! And its disgusting how the mainstream media blows out of proportion a topic about politics in the 1800s just cause Ron Paul has a different opinion.

Ron Paul forever!

[tommyisirish]

MSNBC are a bunch of crackpots

[Wderganc]

What a bunch of hacks.

[MajonezTube]

Crack pot, Pauloholics... Well well.

[dayglowdave]

Beyond the point. The Civil War was not over slavery. It was about keeping the money from the textile and tobacco industry in the south. The government could have given 2 shits about slaves.

[jubetube66]

ok granted ron paul is a fanatic by disagreeing on 1800's propagandized history? joe's reputation hurts in my opinion

[lizardman77]

"You're talking to the wrong guy." What an ass. Come back with some factual arguments, instead of ur little one liners. But what can you expect from a paid hack?

[Zeptocomp]

"did you say he was a crackpot" -

What a childish response by a reporter - whats wrong with US media? Why can they only employ idiots? I know Foxnews is a joke, but MSNBC is starting to look like one also..

[xp1234567890]

Politics of the 1860's!!???

What a farce

[cdoug1]

There's something new...an uneducated commentator faking facts and trying to get a good sound bite to discredit a candidate.

[emilyek1]

'And you will this morning too'.

Nice.

If I were Paul I can't imagine sitting there as someone whose show you're on calls you a crackpot. Clearly he should never go on Joe again, as much as I'd like to hear him.

[Canamanda]

How rude to imply he is a crackpot because he has a differing interpretation of history! History is all about interpretation of facts when you get down to it. We believe too much of whe big egos and small minds tell us is "history".

[wtfoof]

I love how Paul says read Lysander Spooner. Spooner was anti constitution. Google "Lysander Spooner No treason".

"The Constitution has no inherent authority or obligation. It has no authority or obligation at all, unless as a contract between man and man. And it does not so much as even purport to be a contract between persons now existing. It purports, at most, to be only a contract between persons living eighty years ago."

[erinmhughes]

I just want to clear this up about Spooner.

Spooner was anti-government. He makes no apologies for this - no government is given a free pass. But he is also suggesting that the constitution is an anti-government contract.

I like Spooner and Paul but don't think either of them to be the only authority on history.

[nader85021]

i agree. i think paul would have been better served, rather than saying right historians, by saying we should look at both sides, and all historians.

[geargemartin]

ron paul has stated that slavery was a dying in the south. the opposite is true. slavery in the south was a profitable and growing enterprise. between 1850 and 1860 the number of slaves increased by 25%. what astounds me the most though is ron paul and his minions decrying the wasted deaths of those who fought and died to free nearly 4,000,000 americans from bondage. i now understand why skinheads,neo nazis and the klan has joined his cause. he speaks their language

[gulllars]

Actually, the point about wether or not the civil war was neccesary is totally irrelevant to Ron Paul's candidacy... The point was probebly brought up as something to go off-topic when he touches something they don't want to talk about.

[geargemartin]

"one eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the union, but localized in the southern part of it.these slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest.all knew that this interest was, somehow the cause of war". abraham lincoln march 4 1865, lincoln,s 2nd inaugral address.

[dawidciezarkiewicz]

Awesome. Ron Paul is amazing.

[coopercussion]

Why are you even trying to explain anything to these morons Ron? There sitting there with looks like they're listening to a crackpot, that don't know what he's talking about! Come on, these people are journalists, WHO KNOW EVERYTHING! This media in this country is part of the problem. They're in bed with the corruption!

[suexian]

"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it" - Abraham Lincoln

[wtfoof]

The north tried to do what Ron Paul suggested. "As late as February 1865 he offered to pay the owners for the emancipated slaves; the buyout offers were rejected. (In the District of Columbia the slaves were purchased and freed.)

[wtfoof]

Her is the Whole Quote. In 3 parts

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them.

[wtfoof]

If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.

[wtfoof]

What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

[wtfoof]

Read the quote from bottom up. Ron Paul would have the south win the war. Two Countries! All Ron Paul has to do is open his mouth and he has hat in his hand.

[LibertyRevolution]

wow the host makes this really hard to watch.

[schitt4brains]

"and you will this morning too"...PRICELESS. Perfect line to wrap up an important history lesson that apparently escaped these 3 clowns.

[geargemartin]

it's hard to believe a presidential canidate with such a strong following can have such a warped view of history.

[odduck]

Explain warped, Whens the last time you actually read some history. Try to get beyond the Biography channel. There was alot more to it.

[geargemartin]

warped as in twisted. as my reading of history it's an avocation i enjoy. perhaps it's you who should read a book or two and quit being a toady for ron paul's revisionist history. it's simplisrtic, warped and inaccurate. dr paul should remember this old adage "better to be quiet and thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt". prhaps you should take heed to that old saw as well.

[odduck]

August 22, 1862, Lincoln stated

"I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.

[geargemartin]

check out his 1865 2nd inaugral address.

[odduck]

Freeing the slaves became, in late 1862, a war measure to weaken the rebellion by destroying the economic base of its leadership class. In the end..paying for the slaves would not have worked to this desired result. It was about "Federal Authority" and "emancipation" was just another tool used to gain it.

[brigo234]

I agree geargemartin. Paul's views are way off base. The southern slave owners would have taken the money and not released the slaves. (They already had a big problem with the central government telling them what to do). Newsflash: The south attacked the north. The south started the civil war. Hello? Does anyone know that?

[odduck]

I agree, April 12, 1861 -- April 13, 1861 The bombardment and surrender of Fort Sumter near Charleston, South Carolina began the American Civil War. But we were debating the methods used to end slavery, not who fired the first shot. I'm sure there were no easy solutions but having the "luxury of history" to give hindsight shows that alternatives were not considered or adopted. Regardless Lincoln was still a great man and politician.

[rajencajun831]

There was a Northern Fort in the South... What would you propose America today if china had a fort on our soil

[GiveMeLiberty2]

Wow! Three TRUE Orwellian government "let's surpress the truth" crackpots ganging up on one True, well read American. There you have the reason why you can not believe what the government run media tells you. Do your own do-diligence.

[usnotforsale]

"Crackpot" Don't they realize how dumb comments like that make them sound? MSNBC has no absolutey credibility.

[BASSGUY01]

Gee, they have nothing on Ron Paul, yet they have to dig up opinions that have no bearing on the presidential race.

These anchors are idiots.

[silverdesk48]

Team of smear artists on Morning Joe. Showed their revisionist history views.

Check out movie at video store, Amazing Grace, without bloodshed.

History proves it was economic issue to start.

Read Tom DeLorenzo, President John Quincy Adams who presented bills to abolish slavery, and Lysander Spooner.

Awful practice of slavery could have been abolished by LINCOLN in 1860...he refused.

[cerebrotonia]

A Presidental candidate who has studied history? Imagine that. And all that Jack Jacobs can do is resort to name calling.

Search youtube for "Saber Rattling/Bomb Iran ASAP" to see Jack Jacobs (the old guy from the three in the studio) saying we should bomb Iran as soon as possible.

[brentwurst]

i WOULD LOVE TO FUCKING MURDER EVERY ONE OF THESE IGNORANT CUNTS EXECUTION STYLE!

[KevCal510]

LOL

[juankovo]

That show really needs to settle down with their boom camera. Makes me wanna puke.

[Fidosim]

I don't think Joe's 4th grade teacher counts as "every historian". This just goes to show you that in a real prolonged debate, Ron Paul knocks his critics on their ass. It is frightening to see our media being so naive.

[schitt4brains]

Yep. I seem to remember debates in high school being conducted VERY differently than what passes for a debate today. Today's debates are to tests as multiple choice is to essay. No competition for RP in the latter. Of that I am sure.

[WTC7WasPulled]

Ron Paul completely owned them.

[LemuriaInTheSea]

The truth shall be known...Ron Paul is the truth bearer.

[glenninfl]

It is a sad, sad day when "news" is an attempt to drag a truly intellectual man into an argument about a war and a presidency of 142 years ago. To top it off, you show your true lack of intellect and complete disrespect for an honorable and humble man who cares about you, your country, and the future of your children. David Schuster and sidekick(s): The last laugh will be that of all of those "crackpots" who believe in that wacky document called the Constitution of the United States of America.

[KarlFeuerbach]

This is a perfect representation of the typical ignorant media boofheads and their inability to deal with reason, rationlity, and intelligence. What a total pack of wankers. R.Paul made them all look like amateurs.

And calling a leading vandidate a crackpot, whilst he is STILL ON THE PHONE, is simply the lowest of trash talk. This is what your media has come to. The lowest common denominator, right here.

[pootron]

they never answered why Abe didn't amend the Constitution, or why solving it in a peaceful manner like other countries is so bad? sick of these war mongering idiots who speak history in talking points.

[KarlFeuerbach]

Ron Paul pwned this dickhead.

[tarossi400]

Schuster is desperate to make Ron look like a fool and fails miserably every time. He sickens me.

[Zapollo8]

How did EACh of these clowns get such 'high powered' jobs in the media circus. WHo do they represent? Certainly not the average 'JOE'--no pun intended!!!

[AmericasLastHope]

Dr. Paul is America's last hope!

[STRINGMAGICK]

What a disgrace these media hell-hounds are. He is our Mahatma. And he will prevail!

[ghawk1232]

Smear? Depends on how you look at it, could be just trying to clear the air, I sense they are beginning to be ready to accept and respect, calling them names just makes you and all of us look like children, behave yourselves. You're going to win, deal with it.

[gsuitter]

In the first place the civil war was not fought to end slavery.

Second, if slavery could have ended without killing 650,000 people, that sounds like the better way to go.

[WizarDave2007]

I believed it when my free public education teachers told me Lincoln was great. Thought that way for years. Then I did some study on my own.

Abe Lincoln is no longer my hero.

Ron Paul is my hero!

[agitcam]

There were three jerks on this program and none of them were on the phone.

[healthhavencom]

perfect summary

[dusfermc]

@agitcam its unbelieveable how badly they treat him.

[gabbyjo1212]

@agitcam THEY are all jerks! Wolves in sheeps clothing. Do the research, everyone of our presidents through out history are related......even Obama. The 2 party syste, is nothing but a dog and pony show

[gillybymarriage]

Dr. Paul is a smart, smart man.

[chapaev36]

What jerks...

[Folkperson]

This is the best they can do to try and smear our Mahatma? pathetic, only shows how lame they are, and how competent, educated, and articulate is "our" guy.

[oldhacks]

well he's right about this much. I'm not much of a fan of Lincoln either. He freed the slaves in the same fashion that Bush 'freed' Iraq. Lincoln read the ghettysburgh address on a freshly dug Mass Grave. that's why nobody clapped. Cuz they knew it was a bunch of bullshit. Even though it is a great speech and did come to serve a purpose many decades later.

[imnodog]

Why are they laughing? What a bunch of disrespectful SOBs. "oh, ok, you read that one book, we'll read all the others...". I think they were trying to get Paul to lose his temper, but it didn't work!

[Fidosim]

Exactly. And there are plenty of of historians who share Paul's views. I mean common, Lincoln the knight in shining armor saving america from the racists and securing freedom? Give me a break, Lincoln's administration was the first American tyranny.

[bigsid920]

A little background on Crazy Jack Jacobs. He's a true loon:

youtube dot com/watch?v=-p3dSqwgKZw

[marcusjansen239369]

RON PAUL 4 PRESIDENT! WEEK ATTEMT...

[airborne373]

Weak attempt at attacking Dr. Paul.