Well, most of the works that "follow" or "based themselves off of" the base VN's (F/SN and Tsukihime) do so by implying the Heaven's Feel route (because in no other route does Sakura utilize Angra Mainyu) and Ciel's Good Ending (because nobody goes away/dies in that one and even at the end of it, Shiki is still undecided on whether or not he prefers Ciel or Arcueid)
Look in every possible alternate dimension shirou is destined to summon saber through avalon and through every possible dimension archer is summoned by rin because of the jewel she uses to save shirou from lancers gae bolg. Archer is believed to have come from a route based on Illya that was scrapped for unknown reasons (I think it was the whole Lolicon issue) but without it he comes from one of the bad ends "mind of steel".
Compared to a single effing route I have to go down in Tsukihime , Sakura's was short - just that there are more Bad Ends and Dead Ends than usual compared to Fate and UBW.
I wonder how many time I've attended Cie- I mean , Taiga-san's class.
@DarkAdonisVyers Good Ending or Normal Endings aren't considered Canon so it makes each route having only a single "Canon" ending.
Still , the only thing considered "Canon" is Saber's route - as in how the storyline is "supposed to go" - as usual with Visual Novels with several heroines to choose from :X
@UnholyDarknessZ The Nasuverse is a multiverse. All the endings are canon in their own way. Furthermore, TYPE-MOON doesn't seem to like sequels when they interfere with the endings. I think Hollow Ataraxia's canonicity weirdness was handwaved by Rin playing around with the 2nd or something like that.
@narutardkyuubi Well , most supposed "sequels" are either based off all routes ( No nuthead is going to make a sequel based off only a single route unless they wish for a certain death from fans ) like Melty Blood and complete weirdness like Kagetsu Tohya and Hollow Ataraxia.
Kagetsu Tohya was... something related to a dream whilst Ataraxia was birthed from a "behind-the-scenes" event in Fate/Stay Night.
@narutardkyuubi Btw , it was mentioned in the Plus Disc that Arcueid's route was more "ideal" compared to the other heroines , since Ciel's route flirts with the other routes of the "Far Side of the Moon" and well , Akiha's endings aren't exactly pretty , Hisui's Ending can be a bit tearful as well and Kohaku's route made my stomach feel like lead.
So , technically speaking , Arcueid's ending was Canon of all Canons... Well , I'm guessing it was the Good Ending though.
@HsIeNRaE Archer won the War, and didn't abandon his ideals the whole way through. And Ilya survived. It's practically a 'perfect' ending. The tragedy comes after *SPOILER* Ilya died a year later...
Archer came from a route where Ilyasviel survives. That's all we know. Could be Fate, or an alternate HF ending, or NEITHER. Since he's the original Shirou, Tohsaka likely didn't summon him at all.
@project0omega Shirou didn't summon himself. All Shirous are predestined to summon Arturia because of Avalon and the summoning itself never being intentional. Archer wasn't even a servant in his own route. If he was then it causes casualty issues. Tohsaka summoned someone different and lost with him/her.
Anyone realize the paradox of GAR in Shirou surpasses that of Archer? Think about it, this Shirou gave up on the ideal of becoming Archer and created his own power and technique through Archers arm and becoming his own version of Badass, possibly even being more bad ass than any other route in the novel, hell, maybe even Archer himself won't compare to Shirou's GARness in the next few years if he's alive. PARADOX MUCH
@cronnoponno It's not a paradox. Nobody cares about the Shiro that we don't get to see. Although UBW and HF Shiro are cool, they don't surpass Archer at that point.
Remember that Archer was effectively worn out, and lost his ideals long before he was summoned.
Plus, at least in the UBW route, Archer still is more GAR than Shirou. Dude lasted over half the freaking route without even getting mana from a master, and still did insane things like cast Unlimited Blade Works, fight Shirou, and even took Gilgamesh's weapon storm.
@RoaraWolf Maybe, but Archer came from HF route's bad end. Archer could never overcome what HF Emiya could, himself, or more accurately, everything that defined himself as emiya.
@blazearmoru you're wrong, Archer came from Fate route, caz in HF route, shirou abandon his ideal just to save sakura. Since archer is a twisted heroic spirit, Betrayed by his own Ideal, which is clearly stated in UBW route, it is obvious he came from Fate route.
@blazearmoru you're wrong, Archer came from Fate route, caz in HF route, shirou abandon his ideal just to save sakura. Since archer is a twisted heroic spirit, Betrayed by his own Ideal, which is clearly stated in UBW route, it is obvious he came from Fate route.
@HolyRain89 Uhhh, actually guys, Archer came from an unreleased route that Nasu didn't have time to put into the original game, a route that would've followed Ilya. The route was scrapped and combined with Heaven's Feel. Isn't it sad, Ilya?
@blazearmoru you're wrong, Archer came from Fate route, caz in HF route, shirou abandon his ideal just to save sakura. Since archer is a twisted heroic spirit, Betrayed by his own Ideal, which is clearly stated in UBW route, it is obvious he came from Fate route.
@blazearmoru you're wrong, Archer came from Fate route, caz in HF route, shirou abandon his ideal just to save sakura. Since archer is a twisted heroic spirit, Betrayed by his own Ideal, which is clearly stated in UBW route, it is obvious he came from Fate route.
@blazearmoru you're wrong, Archer came from Fate route, caz in HF route, shirou abandon his ideal just to save sakura. Since archer is a twisted heroic spirit, Betrayed by his own Ideal, which is clearly stated in UBW route, it is obvious he came from Fate route.
@RoaraWolf he did not run away but looked at and weighed not his life but his existence, everything that he had been pressured to believe in, chains greater than even archer could escape, and broke free. In the end his abnormality was fixed.
@OmegaChosen0 Fairly sure that Gilgamesh was still getting Prana, as he was bound to Kotomine. If you remember in the Fate Route, there were a bunch of bodies that were still alive and having their energy drained. That might have been for something else, though.
@RoaraWolf you forgot he even cast rho aius to protect shirou from gilgamesh enuma elish and he also cast broken phantasm to get Rin out of the black holy grail
@TheRunedExperience But we don't get that cause TypeMoon doesn't want anymore lolicon. Hell, I heard their newest visual novel doesn't even have any sex. Good for them, cause the sex almost always seems forced anyways.
@pondrthis umm, this may be due to English not being my first language, but what do you MEAN Kirei is not obnoxious? He took annoying Shirou (and Rin, for that matter) and made a work of art out of it:P
@lazarusdrake I mean he's not obnoxious to the reader. He's the only character who had more depth than what was immediately obvious.
Throughout all of Heaven's Feel it was less-than-subtly hinted that he oversimplified his personality because of his religious upbringing. He could only see himself as "evil", rather than "human", so his distorted mind pushed him into fulfilling the evil role. Far and away the best Kinoko Nasu character in my opinion.
I'll forever love BMW for letting Shirou show what he's really capable of. FSN always nerfs him to hell and back for no real reason, but here he's kicking ass and taking names by sheer virtue of having circuits that don't completely suck.
Ahh shirou, hated his combat ability in the game when u first play him, then he gets the new body and third skill. He's great afterwards, all his stats jumped finally gets use for the def. support skill. Weird that base damage of 9 lives is just a tad more than unlimited blade works
Cause debating is fun, and it exchanges through information. I never knew how t he course of time worked in the Nasuverse untill I just stepped up and said what I said, good thing I posted it 'Eh?
A whole different universe would probably be who is the real Archer. Emiya changed to many times in his path, a time paradox should have happened and made archer dissapear on the spot. Example: Why the hell did he still have archers arm if he resolved to save Sakura? If that happened, he never would have made his contract and became Archer, so the arm wouldn't have existed. Plenty of examples in other routes. It has to be a different universe.Then agan killing him would be futile with that logic
It isn't that a change in his mind would change it so Archer wouldn't exist. Magic overrides the sense of time/space, as is explained many times in that show. The mere fact that Shirou and Archer can exist at the same time is a Paradox of its own, so until one dies, the paradox can't be undone. Also, by giving Shirou his arm, Archer changes the timeline itself, causing an Archer/Shirou hybrid.
@cronnoponno the paradox isn't great enough if Shirou simply dies or changes his ideals, Archer still exists. It was archer's plan to kill Shirou personally, since the world would not be able to reconcile Shirou dying in combat with himself it would erase Archer and Shirou. The paradox is what was causing Shirou's headaches during his fight with Archer, because the world couldn't accept they were fighting it was trying to delete him.
a time paradox is not strong enough to override the throne of heroes. the heroes exist outside of time after all. you need something like zelretch's magic or above to be sure you can take archer out of the throne.
ok so i have only watched the anime of Fate Stay Night and i might be a noob but whatever... but in any case, Shiro DOES become Archer right?? There isnt one "Set" story line in the VN so it really just depends on what path you took?
No that can't be right. For Shirou knows of Saber's Avalon and it's actually the Fate version that is closest to his ideal to becoming a hero. Fate Stay Night is like a tale of Shirou going through his ideal. In Fate he believes truly in his ideals, UBW is him facing the faults of his ideal and still accepting it's imperfections, and HF is his total disregard for it.
Not to mention Archer would never let harm come to those closest to him in life much less Shirou.
I see ur point, but "Mind of Steel" Shirou isn't the one that's closest to archer, actually is kind of far from it. Archer was a Shirou that never strayed from his ideal at all and tried his best to save as many as he can, even though time and time again would prove to him that's impossible and brought upon his resentment.
"Mind of Steel" Shirou is one who realizes that you have to kill a few to save the many, just like what Kiritsugu did. In that sense, he did stray from the path.
Its a different Shirou all together, and its too bad it was a "Bad end", I really would've liked to have seen how that would've developed. After are Fate/Zero is way better.
Not quite, Shirou and Illya bonds well in all but the UBW route.
Illya dies a year after the end of the Grail War, and that was one of many things Shirou, or this case, Archer that bought him ever closer to latch on the ideal of saving everyone no matter how hopeless it maybe.
Actually, Archer doesn't want harm to come to Shirou...
Because Archer wants to kill him.
The entire reason he came back was to slit Shirou's throat to prevent his own timeline from coming true. So sadly enough, yeah... Archer wants Emiya dead.
none of the shirou get to become the same archer as the one in fate stay night. even if he does become an official hero like archer he will not regret following his ideal all the way to his death even if it was impossible. in other words even if he becomes a hero he won't become archer, the guy who regreted his existance
yea ur right and im guessing "that" archer comes from a different timeline or universe because one way or another, he existed and for him to exist there had to be another shirou in an alterante universe/timeline
@Dragon1796 Said reality was apparently gonna be put into the visual novel as a fourth arc (this one with Ilya as the female lead) if Heaven's Feel was short enough. Unfortunately, it wasn't (was apparently made into a book though).
I think he meant something like Ilya being the main lead of her own visual novel
Ya know Fate Fatal Fake could ressusect Ilya through Third Magic Sheneigans-(A.K.A a Holy Grail made on the fly) and make her the main Character...fun fact in fake the main character fills the spot of Saber and as Master the same time he is allowed to use any Noble Phantasm belonging to the Saber Class anytime up to 3 Times
@Dragon1796 Didn't he already get removed from the time line and placed into another dimension as a different entity all together? O_o he's screwed even if by some miracle all shirous fail to become archer.
For the Ilya route, would Archer be involved in that one as well? ( I don't really know much about the extra stuff. Also if any of you know, can u tell me the story of saber lily. ty)
It's been said that Archer's circumstances were most similar to Fate Shirou in his timeline, but I'm not convinced that Fate Shirou is the one that becomes Archer.
Archer basically lost to the evils of mankind in a metaphorical sense, his idealism crushed by that which Angra Mainyu embodies. Fate Shirou not only defeated those same evils, he defeated the *physical embodiment* of those evils by sheer force of will. He's too idealistic to become Archer.
archer comes from shirou in a branch of heaven's feel where he kills sakura and ilya is the main heroine of the scenario. the only thing is that it was cut from the main game because of some issues (if i remember correctly because of time and money)
since i don't know japanese i wouldn't know where to get the link to nasu's interviews and whatnot but i'll see if i can find some of the translated stuff again
Archer comes from a different route (the Ilya route). In this one all we know is that he fails to save Ilya a year after the war, and in order to perform a miracle to save a hundred people or so, he pretty much sold his soul to the planet and became a counter guardian. Later on, one of the people who he saved uses archer as a political scapegoat and gets him executed. Archer was very idealistic, but in the end it was his ideals that betrayed him, hence hes so dark and pessimistic.
That's not what I'm asking. I'm perfectly aware of Archer's background, but I've read nothing that suggests he came from an Ilya route, only that he failed to save her after the war. Ilya's homunculus body won't last more than a year after the grail wars even if she wins, so Shirou wouldn't have been able to save her after Fate, and official sources have said that Archer's timeline was most similar to the Fate route; I've heard nothing about an Ilya route except in h-doujins and fan talk.
nasu did say there was an ilya route that was cut off and the game also gives hints about it in tiger dojo. shirou from fate has only a 30% chance of becoming archer which was said by nasu as well.
do remember that fate shirou did tell saber that if you believed in the path you took there was no need to feel regret. this is the main point that makes him different from archer
A Ilya route would be cool..as long as Shirou doesn´t end up as a lolicon..it could explain how the Grail came to be the summoning and a personalty for Ilya´s grandfather..ps the guy started the wars!
ilya route is the one archer took, right? that would be cool to see. in any case there is a lot of info about how the grail came to be so it's quite possible to make it.
It's more likely the Fate route than anything else. It's really obscure, kinda like how melty blood takes place after Tsukihime... It doesn't really make sense, but we accept it anyway
Vampire Satsuki and Nero exist in 2 different routes altogether. There's no explanation for this other "this follows a completely different route that was never released.
There's basically nothing which points out the irregularity just like the existance of Len in both routes unless there's some kind of middle route we never got to play
The Night of Wallachia created Chaos as well as Red Arcuied, second coming of Vampire Satsuki and the fighting maids (Kohaku and Hisui normally didn't have the ability to fight).
not exactly. they are the same but at the same time shirou will never be archer.
that is why there are 2 different spellings of emiya. that way everybody knows which shirou ppl talk about. it's very similar when you talk baout the different shiki's from tsukihime and kara no kyoukai
@Cypher0120 I was screaming literally at iditos who say that but after reading this was thinking "Ooooooo.... i get it >_>" And then the nanaya part and i thought "Explains why it's less betetr than the novel. there's no killer assasin in it."
But then there is always somebody that comes with a dumbass question like-Are you compesationg for something?-And that is why my chars on others RPGs never use GIANT BLADES!
Like Soulgaine said, the sword is the weapon of Berserker, a warrior of literally epic proportions. Shirou took (or replicated) the sword and used his power to mimic Berserker's Nine Lives attack... which makes no sense as Nine Lives was an attack from Berserker's old life's bow, which Berserker doesn't even carry around for the game, so there really shouldn't be a way for Shirou to get that technique when he traced the nameless sword that Berserker was using for the grail war...
Nine Lives is the weapon, the attack that was used in the visual novel was the innate ability that Nine Lives had which basically allowed Shirou to simultaneously strike every vital point in berserker, killing him 8 times. The attack in itself stems from the way Heracles killed the hydra
@OmegaChosen0 read the novel, when shirou did the nine lives blades works
he knew berserker wouldn't go down with any normal weapon so he proyected berserker axe-sword because he knew that archer's arm would also reproduce berserker strenght
Using berserk`s sword has a lot of meaning and explain more of the shirous power that is use the original users power such as even physical streght to wield the word and all. And IMO cause of dat, had As much impact as UBW, if not more...
@OmegaChosen0 Berserker's Sword is a physical manifestation of his Conceptual second noble phantasm, a weapon he can't use while he's the berserker, Heracles' bow which slew the hydra, a noble phantasm that takes the form it needs for victory. Nine Lives, the Shooting Hundred Heads! Thus the Nine Lives Blade Works using Berserker's Sword. He HAS to if he wants to use Nine Lives. Although, he has to project it with his left arm, the arm of Heroic Spirit Emiya, Archer of Unlimited Blade Works
@OmegaChosen0 All the in-storyline justifications aside... Shiro is totally not the kind of person that would use an elegant weapon with a graceful fighting style. He did use twin swords for a while on the UBW but he got his greatest accomplishment from throwing all technique away and just whipping his blades around like a madman. Stylish or not, brute strength suits him as it refelcts his raw determination, so that's what he gets.
only thing that bothers me is that nine lives was portrayed wrong since the attack made 8 unconscious hits and last hit was shirou driving the sword in his enemy.
OMG! ANOTHER NERD LIKE ME WHO PAYS ATTENTION TO LITTLE DETAILS LIKE THAT! HI!!!!(I'm really hyper for some reason, and it's past 12:00 midnight.....maybe because I'm tired?)
This song isn't the ubw theme. In the original VN it is generally played whenever Shirou does some sort of special attack. This includes Avalon, UBW, fighting archer and Nine Lives.
Common mistake created from the anime, it also has absolutely nothing to do with archer.
This song is ridiculous. What an awesome remix of Emiya. One of the best.
Treehed 3 weeks ago
Well, most of the works that "follow" or "based themselves off of" the base VN's (F/SN and Tsukihime) do so by implying the Heaven's Feel route (because in no other route does Sakura utilize Angra Mainyu) and Ciel's Good Ending (because nobody goes away/dies in that one and even at the end of it, Shiki is still undecided on whether or not he prefers Ciel or Arcueid)
CenturyBlade 6 months ago
Look in every possible alternate dimension shirou is destined to summon saber through avalon and through every possible dimension archer is summoned by rin because of the jewel she uses to save shirou from lancers gae bolg. Archer is believed to have come from a route based on Illya that was scrapped for unknown reasons (I think it was the whole Lolicon issue) but without it he comes from one of the bad ends "mind of steel".
koreankimchikun 10 months ago
@koreankimchikun But then what about Kagetsu Tohya? A reason for the route is scrapped is because HF, Sakura's route, was so f**king long.
DarkAdonisVyers 8 months ago
@DarkAdonisVyers Sakura's route was long? =.=
Compared to a single effing route I have to go down in Tsukihime , Sakura's was short - just that there are more Bad Ends and Dead Ends than usual compared to Fate and UBW.
I wonder how many time I've attended Cie- I mean , Taiga-san's class.
UnholyDarknessZ 7 months ago
@UnholyDarknessZ That's the official excuse, anyway.
DarkAdonisVyers 7 months ago
@DarkAdonisVyers In short - lacking of Archer's route was probably either an excuse or that they had grown lazy. I'd choose the latter.
( WHERE IS THE TSUKIHIME REMAKE!? )
UnholyDarknessZ 7 months ago
@UnholyDarknessZ Archer route?
DarkAdonisVyers 7 months ago
@DarkAdonisVyers Archer was said to be derived from the scrapped Illya route , so it goes both ways , non?
UnholyDarknessZ 7 months ago
@UnholyDarknessZ Well, most routes have 2 canon endings, anyway, so I suppose so.
DarkAdonisVyers 7 months ago
@DarkAdonisVyers Good Ending or Normal Endings aren't considered Canon so it makes each route having only a single "Canon" ending.
Still , the only thing considered "Canon" is Saber's route - as in how the storyline is "supposed to go" - as usual with Visual Novels with several heroines to choose from :X
UnholyDarknessZ 7 months ago
@UnholyDarknessZ But all official sequels are made from HF.
DarkAdonisVyers 7 months ago
@DarkAdonisVyers Official sequels? =.=
Fate/Stay Night doesn't have a sequel - unless you count Fate/Hollow Ataraxia which features a time loop which is pretty much based off all routes.
UnholyDarknessZ 7 months ago
@UnholyDarknessZ The Nasuverse is a multiverse. All the endings are canon in their own way. Furthermore, TYPE-MOON doesn't seem to like sequels when they interfere with the endings. I think Hollow Ataraxia's canonicity weirdness was handwaved by Rin playing around with the 2nd or something like that.
narutardkyuubi 6 months ago
@narutardkyuubi Well , most supposed "sequels" are either based off all routes ( No nuthead is going to make a sequel based off only a single route unless they wish for a certain death from fans ) like Melty Blood and complete weirdness like Kagetsu Tohya and Hollow Ataraxia.
Kagetsu Tohya was... something related to a dream whilst Ataraxia was birthed from a "behind-the-scenes" event in Fate/Stay Night.
UnholyDarknessZ 6 months ago
@narutardkyuubi Btw , it was mentioned in the Plus Disc that Arcueid's route was more "ideal" compared to the other heroines , since Ciel's route flirts with the other routes of the "Far Side of the Moon" and well , Akiha's endings aren't exactly pretty , Hisui's Ending can be a bit tearful as well and Kohaku's route made my stomach feel like lead.
So , technically speaking , Arcueid's ending was Canon of all Canons... Well , I'm guessing it was the Good Ending though.
UnholyDarknessZ 6 months ago
Comment removed
koreankimchikun 11 months ago
Epic BGM~
Adeirutonu 11 months ago
Without the Fourth Route, It's safe to say, Archer came from the Bad Endings.
HsIeNRaE 1 year ago
@HsIeNRaE Archer won the War, and didn't abandon his ideals the whole way through. And Ilya survived. It's practically a 'perfect' ending. The tragedy comes after *SPOILER* Ilya died a year later...
AnimeNikkaJamal 1 year ago
Archer came from a route where Ilyasviel survives. That's all we know. Could be Fate, or an alternate HF ending, or NEITHER. Since he's the original Shirou, Tohsaka likely didn't summon him at all.
AnimeNikkaJamal 1 year ago
@AnimeNikkaJamal what then he summoned his self?
project0omega 1 year ago
@project0omega Shirou didn't summon himself. All Shirous are predestined to summon Arturia because of Avalon and the summoning itself never being intentional. Archer wasn't even a servant in his own route. If he was then it causes casualty issues. Tohsaka summoned someone different and lost with him/her.
AnimeNikkaJamal 1 year ago
@AnimeNikkaJamal thanx for the heads up ima start the VN now :p
project0omega 11 months ago
Anyone realize the paradox of GAR in Shirou surpasses that of Archer? Think about it, this Shirou gave up on the ideal of becoming Archer and created his own power and technique through Archers arm and becoming his own version of Badass, possibly even being more bad ass than any other route in the novel, hell, maybe even Archer himself won't compare to Shirou's GARness in the next few years if he's alive. PARADOX MUCH
cronnoponno 1 year ago
@cronnoponno It's not a paradox. Nobody cares about the Shiro that we don't get to see. Although UBW and HF Shiro are cool, they don't surpass Archer at that point.
dzk87 1 year ago
@dzk87 Didn't UBW Shirou made Archer remember hte beauty of his dream and all that throught sheer hardheadness? That counts for something
OmegaChosen0 1 year ago
@cronnoponno
Remember that Archer was effectively worn out, and lost his ideals long before he was summoned.
Plus, at least in the UBW route, Archer still is more GAR than Shirou. Dude lasted over half the freaking route without even getting mana from a master, and still did insane things like cast Unlimited Blade Works, fight Shirou, and even took Gilgamesh's weapon storm.
RoaraWolf 1 year ago 6
@RoaraWolf Yep :)
DanielWong08 1 year ago
@RoaraWolf Maybe, but Archer came from HF route's bad end. Archer could never overcome what HF Emiya could, himself, or more accurately, everything that defined himself as emiya.
blazearmoru 1 year ago
@blazearmoru you're wrong, Archer came from Fate route, caz in HF route, shirou abandon his ideal just to save sakura. Since archer is a twisted heroic spirit, Betrayed by his own Ideal, which is clearly stated in UBW route, it is obvious he came from Fate route.
HolyRain89 1 year ago
@blazearmoru you're wrong, Archer came from Fate route, caz in HF route, shirou abandon his ideal just to save sakura. Since archer is a twisted heroic spirit, Betrayed by his own Ideal, which is clearly stated in UBW route, it is obvious he came from Fate route.
HolyRain89 1 year ago
@HolyRain89 Uhhh, actually guys, Archer came from an unreleased route that Nasu didn't have time to put into the original game, a route that would've followed Ilya. The route was scrapped and combined with Heaven's Feel. Isn't it sad, Ilya?
ZekkSkywalk 1 year ago 11
@ZekkSkywalk cool
project0omega 1 year ago
@HolyRain89 no he didn't abandon his ideal to save sakura. He killed sakura, killed tosaka, killed everyone he cared about. Read it again.
blazearmoru 10 months ago
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@blazearmoru you're wrong, Archer came from Fate route, caz in HF route, shirou abandon his ideal just to save sakura. Since archer is a twisted heroic spirit, Betrayed by his own Ideal, which is clearly stated in UBW route, it is obvious he came from Fate route.
HolyRain89 1 year ago
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@blazearmoru you're wrong, Archer came from Fate route, caz in HF route, shirou abandon his ideal just to save sakura. Since archer is a twisted heroic spirit, Betrayed by his own Ideal, which is clearly stated in UBW route, it is obvious he came from Fate route.
HolyRain89 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@blazearmoru you're wrong, Archer came from Fate route, caz in HF route, shirou abandon his ideal just to save sakura. Since archer is a twisted heroic spirit, Betrayed by his own Ideal, which is clearly stated in UBW route, it is obvious he came from Fate route.
HolyRain89 1 year ago
@RoaraWolf he did not run away but looked at and weighed not his life but his existence, everything that he had been pressured to believe in, chains greater than even archer could escape, and broke free. In the end his abnormality was fixed.
blazearmoru 1 year ago
@RoaraWolf Gilgamesh with Independent Action A+ was able to hang 10 years around just needing to get mana for that Spam Action of his
Hell Independent Action is the biggest bullshit ever without considering Avalon Ea or Gate of Babylon
OmegaChosen0 2 months ago
@OmegaChosen0 Fairly sure that Gilgamesh was still getting Prana, as he was bound to Kotomine. If you remember in the Fate Route, there were a bunch of bodies that were still alive and having their energy drained. That might have been for something else, though.
Emuticus 2 months ago
@Emuticus Wasn't stated that even in his "Of Flesh by Angra Mainyu State" that he only needed mana for his Noble Phantasms
That's why those bodies who are still alive by the way were there to provide mana
OmegaChosen0 2 months ago
@RoaraWolf HF! Shirou is even MORE GAR.
LironScatterGun 1 month ago
@RoaraWolf you forgot he even cast rho aius to protect shirou from gilgamesh enuma elish and he also cast broken phantasm to get Rin out of the black holy grail
Angelofzero01 2 weeks ago
let me get this straight....
Fate -> Ilya route -> archer?
TheRunedExperience 1 year ago
@TheRunedExperience But we don't get that cause TypeMoon doesn't want anymore lolicon. Hell, I heard their newest visual novel doesn't even have any sex. Good for them, cause the sex almost always seems forced anyways.
BlazingAzureTheta 1 year ago
@BlazingAzureTheta
Well, it stars Aozaki Aoko as the main character. I don't think there's a real need for sex in the story with her involved.
Cypher0120 1 year ago
@Cypher0120 Who? No idea who that is. I've only played Fate/Stay Night and Utawareromono.
BlazingAzureTheta 1 year ago
@Cypher0120 Unless, there's another reason why Shiki calls her Sensei...
(joking)
narutardkyuubi 1 year ago
Get rid of every obnoxious Tsukihime/FSN character and who is left?
Arcueid Brunestud, Tohno Shiki, Kotomine Kirei, and EMIYA SHIROU.
Force the world to accept your contradictory ideals, Shirou! Go get 'em!
pondrthis 1 year ago
@pondrthis umm, this may be due to English not being my first language, but what do you MEAN Kirei is not obnoxious? He took annoying Shirou (and Rin, for that matter) and made a work of art out of it:P
lazarusdrake 1 year ago
@lazarusdrake I mean he's not obnoxious to the reader. He's the only character who had more depth than what was immediately obvious.
Throughout all of Heaven's Feel it was less-than-subtly hinted that he oversimplified his personality because of his religious upbringing. He could only see himself as "evil", rather than "human", so his distorted mind pushed him into fulfilling the evil role. Far and away the best Kinoko Nasu character in my opinion.
pondrthis 1 year ago
However, many agree that the Tsukihime opening exists. it's a shame a show with an op that great could simply not exist.
Hyperencrpted12345 1 year ago
I'll forever love BMW for letting Shirou show what he's really capable of. FSN always nerfs him to hell and back for no real reason, but here he's kicking ass and taking names by sheer virtue of having circuits that don't completely suck.
Still without a doubt my favorite character.
Darkforce222 1 year ago 2
@Darkforce222 the epic theme certaintly helps out though
secondwizard117 1 year ago
Ahh shirou, hated his combat ability in the game when u first play him, then he gets the new body and third skill. He's great afterwards, all his stats jumped finally gets use for the def. support skill. Weird that base damage of 9 lives is just a tad more than unlimited blade works
ppowerman1 1 year ago
@ppowerman1 8 Berserker style hits happening at Mach 48+ could be overwhelmingly compared to Archer's NPs <_<
AnimeNikkaJamal 1 year ago
Shirou's overcompensating for something every time he traces Berserker's axe-blade.
zergit 1 year ago
@zergit He decided that having two small ones isnt as good as having one big one
jenniferthomas28 1 year ago
where can i get this game?
Billy5432 2 years ago
remember, parallel universes are considered to be canon in nasu's works, therefore archer is a different person to shirou
halibonga 2 years ago
And Heroic Spirits transcend parallel universes, as well. So even if there was only one universe, Archer would STILL be a different person.
poggg 2 years ago
exactly! :D
halibonga 2 years ago
Why...every BGM...have a freaking debate??
ujb5z987 2 years ago 18
Cause debating is fun, and it exchanges through information. I never knew how t he course of time worked in the Nasuverse untill I just stepped up and said what I said, good thing I posted it 'Eh?
cronnoponno 2 years ago
because we are humans and therefore love arguments.
darksword101 2 years ago
@ujb5z987
Because debating is fun!
I love a good debate, especially deep ones about....well, whatever i can debate about. xD
TrombeX2 1 year ago
@ujb5z987 Because it doesn't show tentacle porn.
Makuru 10 months ago
@Makuru oh ho nice one XDDD
project0omega 7 months ago
A whole different universe would probably be who is the real Archer. Emiya changed to many times in his path, a time paradox should have happened and made archer dissapear on the spot. Example: Why the hell did he still have archers arm if he resolved to save Sakura? If that happened, he never would have made his contract and became Archer, so the arm wouldn't have existed. Plenty of examples in other routes. It has to be a different universe.Then agan killing him would be futile with that logic
cronnoponno 2 years ago
It isn't that a change in his mind would change it so Archer wouldn't exist. Magic overrides the sense of time/space, as is explained many times in that show. The mere fact that Shirou and Archer can exist at the same time is a Paradox of its own, so until one dies, the paradox can't be undone. Also, by giving Shirou his arm, Archer changes the timeline itself, causing an Archer/Shirou hybrid.
Zorolo 2 years ago
@cronnoponno the paradox isn't great enough if Shirou simply dies or changes his ideals, Archer still exists. It was archer's plan to kill Shirou personally, since the world would not be able to reconcile Shirou dying in combat with himself it would erase Archer and Shirou. The paradox is what was causing Shirou's headaches during his fight with Archer, because the world couldn't accept they were fighting it was trying to delete him.
jenniferthomas28 2 years ago 3
a time paradox is not strong enough to override the throne of heroes. the heroes exist outside of time after all. you need something like zelretch's magic or above to be sure you can take archer out of the throne.
blazingshadow 2 years ago
ok so i have only watched the anime of Fate Stay Night and i might be a noob but whatever... but in any case, Shiro DOES become Archer right?? There isnt one "Set" story line in the VN so it really just depends on what path you took?
surdect 2 years ago
Where you can say for 100% sure that Shirou is going to be Archer doesnt exist in VN.
The only closest possibility of Shirou becomeing Archer is in Heaven's Feel the dead end calld "Mind Of Steel".
In that dead end he lets Rin kill Sakura and he wil follow the path of becoming a hero.
But if you chose to protect Sakura instead of becoming a hero, then at that point Shirou becoming Archer is 0.00%
But Archer is from other story that Nasu removed from VN, the route is known as "Illya Route"
B0ki 2 years ago
thanks for helping me clear things up, im really a noob at Fate Stay Night so i dont know much, your explanation helped me, thankies
surdect 2 years ago
No that can't be right. For Shirou knows of Saber's Avalon and it's actually the Fate version that is closest to his ideal to becoming a hero. Fate Stay Night is like a tale of Shirou going through his ideal. In Fate he believes truly in his ideals, UBW is him facing the faults of his ideal and still accepting it's imperfections, and HF is his total disregard for it.
Not to mention Archer would never let harm come to those closest to him in life much less Shirou.
NewtypeChild6 2 years ago
Shirou from Fate is Archer? NO, why?Because if he was then he should have never tryd to attack Saber in UBW.
Shirou from UBW is Archer? NO, why?Because if he was then he should have never left Rin with Shinji, since he knows what Shinji could do to Rin.
Shrou from Heavens Feel is Archer? NO, why?Because Shirou sacrifices his ideal for Sakura.
However in dead end "Mind Of Steel" he follows his path of becoming hero
But in the end Archer is from Illya route, it make's sense if you think about it.
B0ki 2 years ago
I see ur point, but "Mind of Steel" Shirou isn't the one that's closest to archer, actually is kind of far from it. Archer was a Shirou that never strayed from his ideal at all and tried his best to save as many as he can, even though time and time again would prove to him that's impossible and brought upon his resentment.
"Mind of Steel" Shirou is one who realizes that you have to kill a few to save the many, just like what Kiritsugu did. In that sense, he did stray from the path.
Finalfan67 2 years ago
Its a different Shirou all together, and its too bad it was a "Bad end", I really would've liked to have seen how that would've developed. After are Fate/Zero is way better.
Finalfan67 2 years ago
hmm yea your right, "Mind Of Steel",
"Mind Of Steel" ending is when he starts to walk the same path as kiritsugu.
Where he sacrifices his loved one's for his ideal.
Like kiritsugu did.
B0ki 2 years ago
You forgot, Archer never attacked Saber, he threatened her saying he would trace "her holy sword" if she stands in his way.
Even then, he does bring harm to those he cares for, but never life threatening unless he knows he can prevent it.
NewtypeChild6 2 years ago
It's teh illya route. They hint at it in HF, Archer looks at Illya sadly while they attempt to run away from the Castle.
lolrar 2 years ago
Not quite, Shirou and Illya bonds well in all but the UBW route.
Illya dies a year after the end of the Grail War, and that was one of many things Shirou, or this case, Archer that bought him ever closer to latch on the ideal of saving everyone no matter how hopeless it maybe.
NewtypeChild6 2 years ago
Actually, Archer doesn't want harm to come to Shirou...
Because Archer wants to kill him.
The entire reason he came back was to slit Shirou's throat to prevent his own timeline from coming true. So sadly enough, yeah... Archer wants Emiya dead.
HayateKusanagi 2 years ago
none of the shirou get to become the same archer as the one in fate stay night. even if he does become an official hero like archer he will not regret following his ideal all the way to his death even if it was impossible. in other words even if he becomes a hero he won't become archer, the guy who regreted his existance
blazingshadow 2 years ago
yea ur right and im guessing "that" archer comes from a different timeline or universe because one way or another, he existed and for him to exist there had to be another shirou in an alterante universe/timeline
surdect 2 years ago
Archer is doomed to always exist because in some other reality another Shirou will become like him.
Dragon1796 2 years ago 23
@Dragon1796 Said reality was apparently gonna be put into the visual novel as a fourth arc (this one with Ilya as the female lead) if Heaven's Feel was short enough. Unfortunately, it wasn't (was apparently made into a book though).
Kytseo 6 months ago
@Kytseo Ilya as female lead?
Fukken Kaleid Liner Prisma Ilya.
RavensNestStudios 5 months ago
@RavensNestStudios not in the nanoha way, I meant in the same way that Saber or Rin were the heroines (but assumidly more platonic)
Kytseo 5 months ago
@RavensNestStudios Come on Kaleid Liner is one Big Parody
I think he meant something like Ilya being the main lead of her own visual novel
Ya know Fate Fatal Fake could ressusect Ilya through Third Magic Sheneigans-(A.K.A a Holy Grail made on the fly) and make her the main Character...fun fact in fake the main character fills the spot of Saber and as Master the same time he is allowed to use any Noble Phantasm belonging to the Saber Class anytime up to 3 Times
OmegaChosen0 4 months ago
@Dragon1796 Didn't he already get removed from the time line and placed into another dimension as a different entity all together? O_o he's screwed even if by some miracle all shirous fail to become archer.
blazearmoru 5 months ago
ya just gotta love the nine lives attack :D
Inuyashaofpower 2 years ago 2
Damn now I want Mind Of steel Shirou playable
OmegaChosen0 2 years ago 3
For the Ilya route, would Archer be involved in that one as well? ( I don't really know much about the extra stuff. Also if any of you know, can u tell me the story of saber lily. ty)
Finalfan67 2 years ago
Hmm... about this Shirou/Archer thing...
It's been said that Archer's circumstances were most similar to Fate Shirou in his timeline, but I'm not convinced that Fate Shirou is the one that becomes Archer.
Archer basically lost to the evils of mankind in a metaphorical sense, his idealism crushed by that which Angra Mainyu embodies. Fate Shirou not only defeated those same evils, he defeated the *physical embodiment* of those evils by sheer force of will. He's too idealistic to become Archer.
Comartemis 2 years ago
archer comes from shirou in a branch of heaven's feel where he kills sakura and ilya is the main heroine of the scenario. the only thing is that it was cut from the main game because of some issues (if i remember correctly because of time and money)
blazingshadow 2 years ago
That's the first I've heard of it. Do you have an official source for that and a link you could post to it?
Comartemis 2 years ago
since i don't know japanese i wouldn't know where to get the link to nasu's interviews and whatnot but i'll see if i can find some of the translated stuff again
blazingshadow 2 years ago
Archer comes from a different route (the Ilya route). In this one all we know is that he fails to save Ilya a year after the war, and in order to perform a miracle to save a hundred people or so, he pretty much sold his soul to the planet and became a counter guardian. Later on, one of the people who he saved uses archer as a political scapegoat and gets him executed. Archer was very idealistic, but in the end it was his ideals that betrayed him, hence hes so dark and pessimistic.
Finalfan67 2 years ago
P.S. many fans consider "The Last Episode" to be the final ending of the Fate Scenario, but that is jsut speculation so we can't truly know
Finalfan67 2 years ago
That's not what I'm asking. I'm perfectly aware of Archer's background, but I've read nothing that suggests he came from an Ilya route, only that he failed to save her after the war. Ilya's homunculus body won't last more than a year after the grail wars even if she wins, so Shirou wouldn't have been able to save her after Fate, and official sources have said that Archer's timeline was most similar to the Fate route; I've heard nothing about an Ilya route except in h-doujins and fan talk.
Comartemis 2 years ago
nasu did say there was an ilya route that was cut off and the game also gives hints about it in tiger dojo. shirou from fate has only a 30% chance of becoming archer which was said by nasu as well.
do remember that fate shirou did tell saber that if you believed in the path you took there was no need to feel regret. this is the main point that makes him different from archer
blazingshadow 2 years ago
There is a male-the head of the family is..his name is Acsht or something like that
OmegaChosen0 2 years ago
I have no regrets, this is the only way..UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS!
And /yes I do realize that Nine Lives is HF only
OmegaChosen0 2 years ago
A Ilya route would be cool..as long as Shirou doesn´t end up as a lolicon..it could explain how the Grail came to be the summoning and a personalty for Ilya´s grandfather..ps the guy started the wars!
OmegaChosen0 2 years ago
ilya route is the one archer took, right? that would be cool to see. in any case there is a lot of info about how the grail came to be so it's quite possible to make it.
blazingshadow 2 years ago
It's more likely the Fate route than anything else. It's really obscure, kinda like how melty blood takes place after Tsukihime... It doesn't really make sense, but we accept it anyway
Shinokyouku 2 years ago
why doesn't it make sense? nero chaos hadn't come and got killed in tsukihime he wouldn't have appeared in melty blood
blazingshadow 2 years ago
Vampire Satsuki and Nero exist in 2 different routes altogether. There's no explanation for this other "this follows a completely different route that was never released.
There's basically nothing which points out the irregularity just like the existance of Len in both routes unless there's some kind of middle route we never got to play
Shinokyouku 2 years ago
Altrouge route
OmegaChosen0 2 years ago
nope. Satsuki route.
Shinokyouku 2 years ago
I know I was just joking
Hope in Tsukihime 2 there is no ShikixAlt route..cause it would be weird and Shiki's harem is large enough
OmegaChosen0 2 years ago
?Melty Blood is like a AU of tsukihime in some ways and besides TATARI revived NEro's memories
OmegaChosen0 2 years ago
The Night of Wallachia created Chaos as well as Red Arcuied, second coming of Vampire Satsuki and the fighting maids (Kohaku and Hisui normally didn't have the ability to fight).
Len created the Nanaya Shiki.
Ridleysama 2 years ago
so basically if it werent for that Arcuied would still have that cute personality she had back in tsukihime
damn you wallachia
Flameshadow1010 2 years ago
we don't know if there were ANY males in the von Einzberg family. For god sakes they created Ilya out of Kiritsugu's sperm.
Shinokyouku 2 years ago
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OmegaChosen0 2 years ago
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OmegaChosen0 2 years ago
not exactly. they are the same but at the same time shirou will never be archer.
that is why there are 2 different spellings of emiya. that way everybody knows which shirou ppl talk about. it's very similar when you talk baout the different shiki's from tsukihime and kara no kyoukai
blazingshadow 2 years ago
"shirou will never be archer"
It depends on route Shirou will take. In F/ST in UBW route Archer notice that Shirou is taking the same route as he took and try to stop him :)
ScolPL 2 years ago
I think it was confirmed that Archer is what happens to Shirou in the Ilya route. Which didn't make it into the VN.
It's also been said that Fate route could possibly end up with an Archer-like Shirou, but it's unlikely.
PaladinX500 2 years ago
If it doesn´t have Nnaya..then it is no Tsukihime....my opnion at least
OmegaChosen0 2 years ago
Like Tsukihime, the anime is much, much worse than the visual novel.
For people who're not japanese, a lot of people just pirate it. Mainly because of the huge hassle involved in importing and translating it.
PaladinX500 2 years ago
Started to watch it!
Casn´t find the freaking games!
Wanna own Saber with Gilgamesh!
Ayway your right Fate/Stay rocks!
OmegaChosen0 2 years ago
Only watched/played Tsukihime pal!
OmegaChosen0 2 years ago
I'll assume you meant played. There is no Tsukihime Anime.
In either case I wholehearted suggest you pick up Fate/Stay Night. It is very rad :'D
Shurimpu 2 years ago 5
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SeruQuik 2 years ago
"shingetsutan tsukihime" a.k.a. "lunar legend tsukihime"
DRCE777 2 years ago
There. Was. No. Tsukihime. Anime.
HurpNDurp 2 years ago 32
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SeruQuik 2 years ago
It's an inside joke. 'There is no Tsukihime anime' is a meme because the Visual Novel is much, much, better than the anime.
Besides, the anime didn't have Nanaya.
Cypher0120 2 years ago 26
@Cypher0120 I was screaming literally at iditos who say that but after reading this was thinking "Ooooooo.... i get it >_>" And then the nanaya part and i thought "Explains why it's less betetr than the novel. there's no killer assasin in it."
MUGENanaya 1 year ago
@Cypher0120 Notes for remake:
Better Story Accuracy
Nanaya
Better-Suited Art Style (like what Fate/Stay Night did)
zergvsgenin 1 year ago
WEll yeah Giant Blades Rock!
But then there is always somebody that comes with a dumbass question like-Are you compesationg for something?-And that is why my chars on others RPGs never use GIANT BLADES!
OmegaChosen0 2 years ago
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OmegaChosen0 2 years ago
A katana would be stylish, but I think Berserker's sword has more oomph.
Soulgaine 2 years ago
Like Soulgaine said, the sword is the weapon of Berserker, a warrior of literally epic proportions. Shirou took (or replicated) the sword and used his power to mimic Berserker's Nine Lives attack... which makes no sense as Nine Lives was an attack from Berserker's old life's bow, which Berserker doesn't even carry around for the game, so there really shouldn't be a way for Shirou to get that technique when he traced the nameless sword that Berserker was using for the grail war...
lnsflare 2 years ago
You do realize the fact the guy said "the guy weilding giant blades" means he most likely doesn;t know anything about F/SN right?
BoneBeastKimimaro 2 years ago
Makes sense because according to the materials, "Nine Lives" is more a style than a weapon.
Shiro uses the "Anti-unit" version.
Kansho37 2 years ago
Nine Lives is the weapon, the attack that was used in the visual novel was the innate ability that Nine Lives had which basically allowed Shirou to simultaneously strike every vital point in berserker, killing him 8 times. The attack in itself stems from the way Heracles killed the hydra
Shinokyouku 2 years ago
Nine Lives is a multipurpose bow. It can act as any type of weapon given the circumstances.
Shinokyouku 2 years ago
@OmegaChosen0 read the novel, when shirou did the nine lives blades works
he knew berserker wouldn't go down with any normal weapon so he proyected berserker axe-sword because he knew that archer's arm would also reproduce berserker strenght
gtjouly 1 year ago
@OmegaChosen0
Using berserk`s sword has a lot of meaning and explain more of the shirous power that is use the original users power such as even physical streght to wield the word and all. And IMO cause of dat, had As much impact as UBW, if not more...
zashom 1 year ago
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Dranikos 1 year ago
@OmegaChosen0 Berserker's Sword is a physical manifestation of his Conceptual second noble phantasm, a weapon he can't use while he's the berserker, Heracles' bow which slew the hydra, a noble phantasm that takes the form it needs for victory. Nine Lives, the Shooting Hundred Heads! Thus the Nine Lives Blade Works using Berserker's Sword. He HAS to if he wants to use Nine Lives. Although, he has to project it with his left arm, the arm of Heroic Spirit Emiya, Archer of Unlimited Blade Works
Dranikos 1 year ago
@OmegaChosen0 All the in-storyline justifications aside... Shiro is totally not the kind of person that would use an elegant weapon with a graceful fighting style. He did use twin swords for a while on the UBW but he got his greatest accomplishment from throwing all technique away and just whipping his blades around like a madman. Stylish or not, brute strength suits him as it refelcts his raw determination, so that's what he gets.
Hailfaz 1 year ago
@Hailfaz 1 year response I already played Fate/stay night
SO I GET IT!
OmegaChosen0 1 year ago
only thing that bothers me is that nine lives was portrayed wrong since the attack made 8 unconscious hits and last hit was shirou driving the sword in his enemy.
VoidAvesta 3 years ago
Details, Details...
CrimsonMoonM 3 years ago
OMG! ANOTHER NERD LIKE ME WHO PAYS ATTENTION TO LITTLE DETAILS LIKE THAT! HI!!!!(I'm really hyper for some reason, and it's past 12:00 midnight.....maybe because I'm tired?)
BoneBeastKimimaro 3 years ago
it's because it's from other game so the attack changed.
Beastom 3 years ago
this version of the ubw theme is my favorite
VoidAvesta 3 years ago
The name of the UBW theme is called "Emiya" in case you were wondering.
BoneBeastKimimaro 3 years ago
This song isn't the ubw theme. In the original VN it is generally played whenever Shirou does some sort of special attack. This includes Avalon, UBW, fighting archer and Nine Lives.
Common mistake created from the anime, it also has absolutely nothing to do with archer.
PaladinX500 3 years ago
technically speaking this is archer's theme.
The name is spelled EMIYA （エミヤ） which is how we identify Archer as apposed to Emiya (衛宮)
Yes their the same people, but Archer is technically called "the heroic spirit EMIYA"
Shinokyouku 2 years ago
besides that there´re some similarities between the songs themselves; if you know emiya youll recognize them and youll remember the other song^^
DarkLegacy13 2 years ago