It seems to me that homosexuality is counterintuitive to the desire to raise a family. This has always puzzled me that people who choose homosexual relationships still want to raise children. I think that raising children is a privilege, not a right, that is obtained by living by the principles of procreation, namely heterosexual relationships. While it is true that some hetero couples are sterile, they are still practicing the proper principle and should be rewarded for it. That's justmy 2cents
@TheOptimusprime9 Thanks, many gays and lesbians still have the desire to raise children because it is a instinctual as our other drives, for food, for companionship, and seems to be completely separate from our orientation. Add in the fact that there are many children in the world who need a home but for whom there are not enough heterosexual couples to adopt all of them. I think many gays and lesbian feel that they are capable of raising these children to be fine adults.
@edgwaterprog I'm sure that they do and I'm confident that many would be capable. It just feels like they are making exceptions for themselves. Why should they get to enjoy all the same privileges that come from a heterosexual relationship without having to live by the same principles? It seems unfair to me.
@TheOptimusprime9 I am not sure what you mean? What exceptions are homosexuals "making" for themselves? What principals are they not living with that heterosexuals are compelled to live?
@TheOptimusprime9 "homosexuality is counterintuitive to the desire to raise a family." Obviously, your sense is wrong. Not only do many LGBT people want to raise children, but study after study shows that they are just as capable as straight parents, & their children are just as happy, healthy & well-adjusted
" I think that raising children is a privilege, not a right." Would that that were the case! Think about how many children are beaten, abused, molested and abandoned by straight parents
@TheStrong32 Yes, there are straight parents who don't deserve to have custody of their children, that is the case. This shows that there are things we can choose to do that make us loose the privilege of raising children. I feel for gay people who want to start families of their own, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
you're really lucky that you found out we just live once. after life ? happy ever after ? wake up it's fairy tales, hell or hevaen is now. it's up to you.
So you are advocating "civil unions" for everyone? And legal "marriage" for none? I used to joke about this years ago. In fact many LBGT folks currently jokingly say that we'll accept Domestic Partnership or Civil Unions only if it is the only option for everyone. But, you are actually advocating this?
If you act on your Gay tendencies then it is a sin. You can say your gay and thats fine BUT being gay is a choice! and it is evil!! not to mention sick and wrong!
@lt500man I, as a queer person, respect your views and certainly would not seek to change them. I do not agree with your conclusions, but I respect them. As a result, I will not belittle, judge or put-down your faith or beliefs. I would simply respectfully disagree. Is it possible that you would be able to return the respect?
If Marriage is a religious function why should the state (Any Government) be the one to decide what it is or isnt? I would urge all gay rights activates to be fair in this and instead of forcing a definition to be accepted by all that they strive and remove any definition. As that is a cause both would benefit from. The state, the schools, and any public organization or office has no right to impose a definition on anyone. If families choose to teach their children about gay marriage so be it.
The problem is Prop 8 infringes on the rights of those who do not want to accept gay marriage as a definition in society.. But in the same respect to Homosexuals they have been forced into accepting the definition of what a marriage is for years. What becomes apparent is it is the "definition" of marriage that imposes on either side. the question should be how can both exist not being imposed upon? the answer is there should be NO definition done by the state.
@omniandros2 yes but who will marry them? It's the word "Marriage" that carries weight to religious institutions. It is the foundation of a family. Marriage between those of the same sex this is impossible. The bottom line is if the STATE (country) never defined marriage at all and which is how it has been, Then there would be absolutely no problem. religions have no issues with civil unions for contractual purposes. But they do with the government defining what a marriage is or isn't.
@Elchochkie I respect that some religious beliefs systems believe that same sex people should not marry. However, the state can not be governed based on some religious beliefs. The state can define legal marriage however it wants so long as its constitutional. The religious can practice marriage as they wish regardless of how it is defined legally. I fail to understand, given this, what the problem is -- other than an effort to legally impose their beliefs into law and onto same sex couples.
@omniandros2 Ok I don't think you understand this but the only reason you want same sex couples to marry is because the government has defined marriage. Its the word "marriage" that Christians have a problem with the state defining. it's a religious function. much like baptism Is a religious function. at one time back in Europe the state did define what baptism and it was a definition that was not accepted by those early protestants.
@omniandros2 In fact many other religious activities were defined. that is why they left and came here. the problem happened after the government wanted in to the marriage business and chose to define it legally as a man and a women. That is what has screwed you. Not any religious institution. If marriage was defined as it always had been, Privately you would never have had this problem.
@Elchochkie Marriage was never "legally" defined as between a man and a woman. It simply historically, given the status of same sex relationships, was always assumed to be such. This is why religious organizations pushed the ballot to change the language of the definition of marriage to "be between a man and a woman". They have explained this as necessary to maintain the "common sense" definition of marriage. So, the backers of Prop 8 (religious people) are the people stopping same sex marriage.
@omniandros2 You are still not getting the point, or are choosing to neglect the majority of my argument. Of course it was legally defined. that is why prop 8 happened. it was to amend the constitution back to what its original definition was between M & W. you have not said anything of the base of my argument being that the state should not define marriage AT ALL. left privately we can define marriage as what ever we want.
@omniandros2 Let me give you an example. in the LDS church we do something called "Sealing." because in our belief marriage and family can be eternally bound only through this ordnance. as it stands being "sealed" is defined privately. which give me the liberty to define it as the sealing between husband and wife for this life and the life to come. I could care less what the state says. I only care about what happened that day at the temple ceremony.
@omniandros2 now if the state chose to define the word "sealing" as well as marriage then we again have a problem. its not necessarily how its defined its the fact that its defined by the government at all. Religious people have no issues with contractual agreements between two individuals for reasons of property and taxes (civil unions) we only have a problem with the state DEFINING the word "marriage". are you understanding my argument? do you see how this could mutually benefit both sides?
@Elchochkie I'm trying to get your point. So, basically you are saying that the state should abandon the institution of marriage all together, and instead simply allow couples to have a contractual agreement with one another regardless of the gender make up of the couple. In doing so, the word "marriage" becomes a religious ceremony in religious institutions and has nothing to do with the state. But, isn't this what almost happens now? People can have whatever ceremony they want in...
@Elchochkie ...whatever religious (or not) institution they want? Churches, temples, mosques, etc perform weddings and do so in whatever tradition and specifications mandated by their belief system. These "marriage" ceremonies have nothing to do with the state. So, where I am sincerely confused is what difference does it make how marriage is legally defined, when it doesn't change any individual's or religious organization's to perform, recognize or support marriages which do not fit their...
@Elchochkie ...understanding of it. For example-- My church believes that same sex couples can come together in matrimony, and performs such marriages regularly. In the eyes of my church, and several other churches in my area, the couple is recognized as married by them once the wed are witnessed in the church. The fact that the law has another definition and does not recognize it, does not change how my church defines and recognizes it. I am curious why your church couldn't do the same.
@omniandros2 You see now you are getting it! but the beauty of this is it doesn't matter because we can both interpret the word how ever we want in our own private institution. The problem is same sex couples want the physical benefits in society from being married. like taxes, property rights, inheritance etc. and the status of saying they are married. By allowing the government their only rightful role in enforcing and protecting contracts and alow us to define marriage privately....
@omniandros2 This way all parties can be happy. and just argue about it in a philosophical sense. much like it is done with any other philosophical dispute.
@Elchochkie The fact that the government chose to define marriage made it clear that now religious institutions. had to make sure what THEY believed the word marriage to be was defined as they have always seen it. this is why i say the better stance for both sides would be to both say the government should no longer define marriage. Bottom line if you take the government out of it then we can all have what we want, Got It?
all people ever care about is their own damn self...not even thinking about what god wants for us...why should we put ourselves before him?? he is our creator, our heavenly father...i swear so many people is gonna fall into the pits of hell because of their blind ignorance...its satans work...and its rising everyday as time goes by..oh god help us all
tell me, what exactly is reality? the fact that people from the beginning of time has made up the idea of "god"? that there are thousands of ways, cultures, countries, people from all over the world believe there is some kind of entity higher than us?? Reality being that we all have a mother and a father passing down.
Have you ever tried or have any experience in knowing who god is? And most of all, the reality that we are humans and we have a conscience, heart/feelings, mind, choices, spirit, etc..
How does one disprove the existence of the flying spaghetti monster? the flying pink unicorn? santa claus? how about big foot, the lochness monster, or the gnomes that keep stealing my sharpened pencils?
You cannot disprove the existence of something which does not exist because there is nothing to disprove.
considering that most couples who get married are not religious, they really should change the marriage where people will be able to the same rights as married couples and not call it marriage, since marriage is a religious sacrament, the government should separate the benefits from traditional marriage
If you want to be gay, be gay. I don't give a fuck what you do in your bedroom. However, "marriage" is done in a church, and is a fusion contract that has religous and legal aspects. I do think gays should be able to get the same benefits (ie: seeing their partner in the hospital and insurance type connections) as heterosexuals. Just don't call it "marriage". I don't hate gays, but marriage is marriage.
I think you are missing the entire point. We are not against gay people. Our beliefs do not change with the world either. I respect the desire for one to be gay... but it's not natural for us as a community to be teaching that these are correct principle to our children.
I definitely need to be saved, and thanks be to God, I was many years ago and still live for Jesus today. The worst sin gays commit is not sexual perversion, it is not repenting before God, and acknowledging their need for Jesus as savior. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, but not all admit their guilt before Him, and humble themselves before Him. That more than anything else is why people go to hell, because they refuse God's remedy for their sin, and say they don't need Him.
You are truly full of empty phrases and words. You sound like a parrot to me. So what is sexual perversion to you and do you have any special knowledge in to that area? after all, you seem a bit obsessed with the sex thing. And keep in mind Dear that there are christian gays so don't stereotype people. Who are you to call out who are sinners or not, I thought you should leave that up to God. You are very judgemental and self rightous.
If anyone is judging, it is certainly is not me. I "judge" only by God's word, and when one does that, one is judging by truth. There may very well be Christians who struggle with homosexual thoughts and desires, but there are no openly and wantonly homosexual Christians. That is no more possible than being openly and wantonly a rapist, or a liar, etc. and being a Christian. A Christian is one who has repented (changed their mind) of their sin, and no longer accepts it as permissable.
Would you like an alphabetical list, or in order of importance? I am a former drunk, a former (and sometimes current) porn addict, I struggle with anger, I am a reforming liar, I have fantasies and drems too wicked to even mention on this channel and I am a coward. These things are what are wrong with me. What is right with me is Jesus. His love, His salvation and His strength are the only things keeping me alive, keeping me sane and keeping me from doing terrible things to people and to myself.
They are not hardships, they are sin. If this man or any man lives openly and wantonly in any sin, then they are in need of Jesus. It is not "being gay" that condemns gays, it is living the so called lifestyle without remorse, regret or repentance. The only real difference between the lost and Christians is that we have acknowledged our need for a savior, and that we are sinners, while they refuse to do so.
I have no idea if he is possessed, but all are sinners, & fall short of the glory of God &all deserve hell. God in His mercy and grace has come to earth as a human, experienced life as one of us, yet without sin. He then experienced death, becoming our sacrifice and allowing all who trust in Him to be saved, and go to eternal paradise. All God demands from us is trust in Jesus, and admittance of our sin before Him. Gays are often too proud to do this, so it is for that reason they are condemned
Misconceptions abound among both antagonists and advocates of homosexuality. Same gender attraction is usually neither a 'choice', nor from being 'born that way'. It's a false dichotomy. Rather, it's likely a product of experience, tacit reinforcement, and thinking patterns, combined with and reciprocally influencing neurochemistry. All influencing what triggers sexual responses during key developmental periods of life. Interpretations of sexual responses are important factors too.
Thank you for sharing your story! You and your family are an inspiration. I too felt very hurt by our church's heavy involvement in Prop 8. I am impressed that you have been able to somehow bridge the gap between your religious belief and upbringing and your sexuality. It is a tuff one in the LDS faith.
"Love the sinner and hate the sin". All that means is you hate me. I am not sinning. I am not a perversion and if you think you being born straight is ordained of god and I am not just because you are attracted to something I am not. You are a bigot.
You believe that homosexuality is something that one needs to overcome? It can be done? How? I have yet to meet one gay man who has "overcome" homosexuality. Do you have any examples for me? Someone who has actually "overcome" homosexuality?
When I say overcome, I am referring to the behaviour itself...as for the inclininations I have no answer. Since you are Mormon, you no doubt have heard it all and so I won't rehash. In spite of your own inclinations you chose to marry a woman and have a family...so I ask you, has it been worth it?
prestda1, Thank you for clarifying. Many LDS people that I have spoken with, including my church leaders, have told me that if I work hard enough my "inclinations" will go away. I chose to marry a woman after much discussion and prayer. Your question is difficult to answer. Some days I think I have made a terrible mistake. I feel bad for the situation I have put my wife in. I cannot deny my love for my family, my wife, my children. But I respect the decisions of good men like Clark Pingree .
I don't have a problem with my sexuality. I don't feel it needs to be overcome and I wouldn't want to. I am completely happy with myself for the first time in my life. I could say your religious beliefs are your problem that you need to over come, it can be done. I've done it! So can you. Not being LDS is the best thing that ever happened to me.
We love all men and women. No matter their sexual preference. But marriage is ordained of god and homosexuality is not. The only words I can really say to this man is simply... "follow the prophet." Put your "wisdom" aside and follow a prophet of God.
Prop 8 was the best thing that could have happend to the gay community . Since its win the our Nation looks up on it as a sad day for freedom and has chosen to side with us. Not Calibama.
Gays don't give a damn about what YOU do with consenting adults behind closed doors. Why is everyone else dependent on YOUR approval? Who made YOU God and ruler over all people?
Grow up and stop thinking so much more of yourself than is necessary. I assure you there are many men (and women) who are by far better human beings than you. Their sexuality has nothing to do with it.
Equality is a dirty word to those who enjoy legally discriminating. The end of unfairness is near. Live with it!
I can understand why a gay Mormon would feel saddened (to say the least) by the massive organized action in favor of Prop 8. I can only say--that as painful as it might be--this church is NOT for you and you may need to move on.
Some of us Christians believe in Equality too. Just as the gay and lesbian community does not want to be stereotyped, those of Christian faith do not want to be grouped with extremists. Jesus taught peace, humity, love, and kindness. That is all that needs to be remembered.
anyone thinking there is something wrong with gay people needs to grow up...didnt you guys watch brains story? dont you guys see the pain discrimination can cause? Think if you were gay would you want to be treated different? come on man its 2009 Homophobia, racism, religion, all that should be dead by now, start thinking logically.
I was raised mormon/religious, but! By the time I became accountable as a reasoning adult and thought for my-self, scientific thought and rational evidence led me to believe otherwise. The concept of "Freedom From Religion" is more important than "Freedom of Religion" The first protects the individual, that latter, the institution, but if you reverse the order, you give the institution license to oppress. Life does not have to have 'God' to give it direction just a bit of imagination and, love!
"The equal rights of man, and the happiness of every individual, are now acknowledged to be the only legitimate objects of government." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray, 1823.
Freedom from religion means you want to deny others the right to religion and freedom of speech. This is clearly against the founding father's intentions. Without God you have no basis to claim any rights. You are simply talking about power - what you can do, not what you have a right to do.
You have the right to express any opinion you want. This does not give the right of religious groups to impose its beliefs on legislation, especially if it does not affect the autonomy of religious organisations, such as proposition 8.
No. It is immoral to impose beliefs which discriminate against others, such as what happened with Proposition 8. One victory for common sense was the right for same sex couples to adopt in Massachusetts.
I do want my beliefs imposed on the law regarding gay marriage, because they advocate equality. Yet my beliefs (And Prop 8's) do not demand that Churches officiate at same-sex weddings, so I am not imposing my beliefs on other people or on religious organisations.
Bonnie, everyone should respect everyone elses religion. So should we respect the religious views of Al-Qaeda? There is a reason for seperation of church and state. Please answer this for me. Set aside your religious beliefs for one minute. Do you think that a majority has a right while a minority does not? I really really would like you to answer that. And yes, marriage is a RIGHT. If a man and women were not allowed to marry the first thing they would say is, we have the RIGHT to get married.
The majority has the power to impose their will that is why it is important that it be a moral majority. Only then will anyone have rights. Just because someone claims a right does not make it a right. There is no right to marriage between gays because it is not possible. There is clearly a difference between a union of a man and woman which can produce new life and a homosexual union which produces nothing. Therefore to define them as the same is not correct. There is a big difference.
You're going round in circles. You ignore what I said about mixed-sex relationships where children cannot be born. You close your eyes to the reality of same-sex unions and the way they strengthen relationships and the communities around them.
Bonnie, there are a lot of man/women relationships that can not produce new life. After I had my second child, I was sterile. In your view should I have been able to have sex after I knew I was sterile? Really, what bothers me so much is that a lot of people hide behind what they think the Bible says and their TRUE feelings on homosexuality. Just come out and admit that it bothers you. You all want to protect marriage, don't get divorced.
In a dramatic reversal, Attorney General Jerry Brown filed a legal brief saying the measure that amended the California Constitution to limit marriage to a man and a woman is itself unconstitutional because it deprives a minority group of a fundamental right.
"It became evident that the Article 1 provision guaranteeing basic liberty, which includes the right to marry, took precedence over the initiative," he said in an interview Friday night.
Thats right danielnz1! Jerry Brown finally came to his senses! Again, I respect the religious views of many, but this is a CONSTITUTIONAL issue! A majority has a right and a minority is denied that same right. And yes, it is a right! Actually, you can call it anything you want, but it is discrimination to allow a majority a ___ and deny a minority the same ____ . It's just fact!
Yes, I agree! The concept of "Freedom From Religion" is more important than "Freedom of Religion" The first protects the individual, the latter, the institution, but if you reverse the order, you give the institution license to oppress.
You are very intelligent danielnz1. Mark my words, Prop. 8 will be overturned in the California Supreme Court. The hypocracy of the Mormons is truly unbelievable. (Other than my Dad, his family is heavily Mormon.) The religion as a whole has changed views in regard to marriage numerous times. This is the same group of people that thought it was a sin for a black and white to marry. They used to not allow blacks in their church. Con't.
As for polygamy, (I am going to use false names because I am talking about myself), but this is the story of why my last name is what it is. My Great, Great Grandfather had 2 wives. Both wives last name was Smith. Then the law changed but Grand-dad wanted to keep both wives so he just changed one of their last names to Jones. Hence, my last name should be Smith, but it's Jones, (a made up name.) They lived in Mesquite, Nevada, a very Mormon town. Actually Las Vegas, Nevada is very Mormon.
The point I am trying to make is that religion changes views all the time and interpretation of the Bible changes all the time. The Catholic religion is just as guilty. We have become so jaded in regard to the Constitution. The right wing seems to think that their religious beliefs trumps the Constitution and it does not. Again Prop. 8 will be overturned just like Prop. 22 was.
I was raised religious(mormon) but! By the time I became accountable as a reasoning adult and thought for my-self, scientific thought and rational evidence led me to believe otherwise. The concept of "Freedom From Religion" is more important than "Freedom of Religion" The first protects the individual, that latter, the institution, but if you reverse the order, you give the institution license to oppress.
Life does not have to have 'God' to give it direction just a bit of imagination and love!
Hi Daniel! If I am right, you are living in New Zealand. My best friend Zandra, (my ex-husbands wife, if you can belive it), is from NZ. (If you look up liberal in the dictionary, my picture should be there.) One of the definitions of liberal is being open minded and that I am guilty. I think you and her would get along well. They obviously raise them right there. And ya, all we need is love! I think John Lennon said that (-:
Cheers! Well you can (and they do) be elected Prime-Minister here even if you are Atheist or Agnostic. There's a good separation of adult fairy-tales (blind-faith religion)and State.
@peaceispatriotic7 I am on your side, but just wanted to point out that asking a a person devoted to their religious faith to set it aside for a moment, is like asking an American to set aside their cultural experience and think from another cultural experience. No matter how hard one could try, they simply would not be able to do it. That said, I respect people's religious views, I simply do not agree with some people's religion-based conclusions about same sex marriage.
Homosexuality is WRONG, always has been, always will be. Religion rejects homosexuals therefore homosexuals reject religion and want to destroy it, and God. No matter what Homosexuals do they will never get Marriage. It has NOTHING to do with interracial marriage between OPPOSITE sexs. It's as if homosexuals believe that the more they say it the more true it becomes. The Civil rights struggle is now being subjected to the attempted hijacking by "The Gay Mafia" pushing the gay agenda.
Of course, we hate religion. Religious people treat us as untouchables even if we are celibate. They discriminate against us in employment, housing, and education. The Catholic church burned us to death for centuries. Why would we be stupid enough to trust it?
You've got gay men confused with Catholic priests. Gay men like fully sexually developed males, which means you are and always will be completely free from their attentions.
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
Imbonnie: in many of your videos you discuss your disability. Are you aware that Mormon apostle Dallin H Oaks compared homosexuals with disabled people in an interview a couple of years ago? Putting the two groups in the same box speaks volumes about the Mormon view of homosexuality, and in turn people with disabilities. To me, it's outrageous.
What's your point. I'm not mormon and I'm not a disability activist whining about discrimination. I am solution oriented. I post my videos to help others find solutions.
Homosexual acts are in the same category as other sexual sins such as fornication. It has nothing to do with race or disability. Shall we make a special protected class for liars, murderers and thieves as well? If homosexuals want to be offended because I believe homosexual acts are sins I don't care.
marriage hasnt changed. a man and a women joined together. That is how simple the definition of marriage is. the only people trying to change marriage and redefine the entire human family are a small group of minority gays who think they deserve the right to change definitions around at there whim. No one else has tried to change marriage, it has always been about the joining of a man and a women to create families. For gays, its only about there special rights since they cant even procreate.
It's the religious fanatics who have all the special rights. They're protected under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Any idiot can make up a religion and find bigger idiots to follow it. What better examples could there be other than Mormonism and Scientology? Religion is undeniably a choice but it's protected no matter how stupid or evil it is. Thankfully, the courts in California have said that sexual orientation demands at least the same level of protection as religion. Deal.
Do not compare this to being black. The civil rights movement - and the long and difficult history of African-Americans - is at very best, marginally similar to the attempt of same sex marriage. Seriously, don't.
Even if they are marginally similar they are still similar. The laegality of this prop 8 is totally wrong. To discriminate against the GLBT community based on religion is wrong.
You simply can't say the legality is wrong cause you don't believe in it. We do not base laws off of religion. We base them on a legal standpoint. If you can give me one legal reason as to why gay marriage shouldnt be allowed then i would be totally in support of prop 8. But again all the reasons against gay marriage are about religion. Its illegal to kill and still not because of the bible but because of the fact that the you are taking away someones legal property or legal life they were given
Religion is simply a word that defines a set of beliefs. You want laws based on your set of beliefs, your religion. You want marriage defined according to your beliefs.
Real marriage brings forth new life and is the foundation of society. Thus society has a vested interest in protecting marriage. Homosexual acts bring forth nothing and are immoral.
People's minds have been so darkened they can't even see the natural law and order of things anymore.
you say "real" marriage what is a "real" marriage. marriage is no longer a religious ceremony. you get married in courts on beaches in backyards even. Marriage is a LEGAL right not a religious right because you get legal benefits for getting married its that simple.
There is no such thing as "gay marriage." It is an impossibility and therefore cannot be a right. Marriage is not a legal right because prop 8 passed. The no on 8 crowd is predominantly anti religious and do not respect people's right to religion and free speech. That's why my "yes on 8" sign on my yard and bumper sticker on my car (another day) were taken. They have no regard for the law.
prop 8 passed based off of religion not legality. why do you think state legislative is allready trying to over turn the vote again. because it is legally wrong. And im very sry that your yes on 8 stuff got stolen but that does not reflect the no on 8 side as a whole criminal acts were done by both sides. you have a right to you religion and free speech. but you dont have the right to deny others thier legal rights. once you put legal rights into something it should be equal.
I have a right to vote and I voted yes on 8. Your set of beliefs is no more "legal" than anyone else's. Stop trying to shove your homosexual agenda on everyone else.
Your right you do have a right to vote. But your voting on a civil issue not a moral issue. Once you start getting involved with someones legal rights based on your religion then we have a problem. you have every right to believe in your religion but dont take away other peoples rights based on your religion.
There is in Connecticut, Massachusetts, Canada, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands. Their societies are still functioning, and the different Churches maintain their autonomy and freedom to disciminate. So you're wrong.
But it's there for all to see in the places I named earlier, so it's not only possible, it's a reality. It's as if you're sticking your fingers in the your ears and going "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU"
It's not reality because those marriages aren't real whether the state approves them or not. They are just fooling themselves. I hear you. I just disagree with you because you are wrong. There have never been any gay couples married because it is an impossibility.
You seem to have an odd definition of "real" and "reality". For me and most people, "real" means that it physically exists, like same sex marriages in the places I mentioned where they're legally binding. Are you trying to suggest they are not recognised by God? That depends on your belief, because I believe they are. If you take a Mormon view, only temple marriages are accepted as "bound by God", so unfortunately, civil heterosexual weddings are also not "real" in that sense.
absolutely I am saying they are not recognized by God. Jesus said what the intention was from the beginning - that a man and woman come together and become one. What God recognizes is not dependent on my belief. My belief or yours does not change God. God revealed his truth through his son Jesus who came to testify to the truth.
OK, now that we know you do not believe same-sex marriages are bound by God, it is an act of denial and extreme naivety to say that they do not exist, because they do.
I disagree with your belief that homosexual acts are sins. I do not know of anything that Jesus (who fulfilled the Mosaic law) said in the 4 Gospels about homosexuality. I believe that God is loving and accepting enough to recognise and bless sincere same sex couples as much as a sincere heterosexual couple.
Ok, so you disagree with me. That makes one of us wrong and one of us right. Society will choose one or the other. It cannot choose both as gay marriage is either legal or illegal. I'm going to vote to define it the way I believe is right. I have no obligation to vote according to your beliefs.
And Jesus did define marriage when he was talking about divorce. He said how God intended things to be from the beginning. Mark 10:6
Mark 10:6 "But at the beginning of creation God `made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
God joined males and females. It's common sense. The union creates children and family. There is no comparison to gay unions which produce nothing.
Firstly, if God created people male and female, what about those others who are born with both not no sexual organs. Whatabout those who are unable to feel attraction to others of either sex, for whatever reason? In Jesus' time, marriage had little to do with love (that's a modern phenomenon), and was about securing finances, property and preventing inter-family feuds. This definition of marriage is no longer compatible with humankind's current understanding of sex, gender and sexuality.
What about those males and females who marry after reproductive age, or those men and women who for other reasons either cannot or choose not to have children? On that basis, those unions also creating "nothing".
The purpose of sex is twofold - unity and procreation. The church teaches that these should not be separated and that all sexual acts are open to life. Homosexual acts cannot be open to life because life is not possible. God gave Sarah a child in her old age but never has a child been conceived through homosexual sex.
If unity is the purpose of sex, why can't a same sex couple strengthen their relationship through sex? The miracle of Sarah giving birth is meaningless when virtually all infertile couples and older newlyweds never have children.
Take god out of the equation. Sex is designed for intimacy between people of the opposite sex's, that design is undeniable. Therefore, if something is used for something other than what it is designed, it is a PERVERSION of its intended use.There are many things you can do, that you shouldn't do. Just because you can, and you have consenting adults that makes perverting the sex act OK in your mind ? Why is there irreparable damage done to the colon if sodomy is so natural ?
I believe that sex can be used for intimacy between people of the same sex: the Bible's teachings on male-male sex refer to exploitation, which is wrong in all sexualities. "Irreparable" damage to the colon from anal sex is not a universal occurrence. Besides, if male-female vaginal sex is so natural, why are some men impotent? Why do some women also sustain injuries from sex?
"I believe that sex can be used for intimacy between people of the same sex" What you believe, practice, and or promote is not "Normal" If you are using "sex" in a way it wasn't designed , same sex vs opposite sex intercourse, then it is a perversion by the very definition of the word. We could be having the same discussion about bestiality and if you were for bestiality you would make all the same arguments for it. Trying to reconcile what is wrong by somehow trying to make it right is insane.
If you're going to decide something is right through being "normal", then your fundamentalist Christianity is also not normal. If you want to call homosexuality "bestiality", then you deny some humans' status as children of God, which goes against the Christian commandment to love one's neighbour. That's utterly tragic.
The bible is clear that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. Saint Paul warns us not to be deceived and then lists a number of people who will not inherit the kingdom of God - idolators, fornicators, homosexuals and so forth.
Like I said earlier, I don't believe the "sodomy" spoken of in the Bible refers to all homosexuals, only those who exploit others sexually. I won't be deceived by the self- righteous scaremongers professing prejudicial fundamentalist beliefs, because I believe more in tolerance and understanding.
as a gay man with many gay friends, I have never heard of anyone sustaining a colon injury. The colon and the rectum are different things there is a valve-like structure between the colon and rectum called the sphynctor, through wich things can only move in one direction(i.e. outward) so it isn't really possible to get a colon injury from anal sex
Anal Prolapse ever heard of it ? It's an injury that is caused by injury from anal sex. Damage to the colon is one of the complications from this. Have you ever read about "Pink Socks". You don't even know what you are doing to your own body, nor do you understand the health risks to you and others.
Bonnie, I agree that we all have the right to vote how we choose. What makes me sick is people will not honestly admit why they feel the way they do. You want to crack open the Bible when you are uncomfortable with this issue. It used to be unlawful for different races to marry. Public opinion changed, it was not equality. Bottom line, a majority has a right and a minority is denied that right. If you set aside your religious beliefs, do you agree with my last statement?
The Bible also said that it was ok for a married man to have sex with another women if his wife was sterile. The Bible also says that slavery is ok. Please don't pick and choose from the Bible. It gives organized religion a bad name. We are all created equal! (With equal rights!) From a Christian Grandmother!
The bible also says the pillar and foundation of truth is the church. My foundation of truth is not, as you presume, my personal interpretation of scripture but rather the Catholic church which is guided by the Holy Spirit in all truth, and through it's authority compiled the bible. The Catholic church also interprets scripture correctly. The church's teachings are not limited to scripture however. The church also teaches those things that were passed down through oral tradition.
The Catholic church, which was instituted by Christ, teaches that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. I believe this. Also, it is self evident that homosexuality is against the natural law.
The Catholic Church motivates a lot of people to do good, yet I cannot believe in any organisation that covers up abuse of children by its representatives (some of its priests) without questioning it.
So were those priests who abused children guided by the Holy Spirit? Were those bishops and cardinals who brought about the Spanish Inquisition also guided by the Holy Spirit? What insidious things to come from an organisation with a "foundation of truth".
No, the priests who abused children were not guided by the Holy Spirit. They were committing grave sins. Just as homosexuals commit grave sins when they engage in homosexual acts. Christ warned ahead of time that there would be wolves in sheep's clothing. He also promised the gates of hell will not prevail against his church. Naturally, Satan will try and a most effective way is by going after priests.
So now you're comparing homosexuals, who have consensual sex as adults, with paedophiles, who take away the innocence of children. Frankly, that is abhorrent and absurd. Perhaps it is the Church, not Satan, who plays a role in the abuse of children, by not allowing its priests an outlet for their human desire for intimacy. This goes to the very highest level of the Roman Catholic Church. The abuse of children by priests was covered up to the highest level. How far up do these "wolves" go?
Yes, both are grave sins. Both sins will land a person in hell. If the flames will be hotter for pedophiles that's not much consolation. The fact that they are "consenting" simply means they have fulfilled one of the three criteria for a mortal sin. The other two are it must involve grave matter and a person must have full knowledge that it's a grave matter. Men know before they join the priesthood that they will be making the sacrifice of giving up sex. No one forces them to be priests.
What a perverse view of the world you have. You seem to say that a grave sin is a grave sin because it's a grave sin. What nonsense. Unlike a child, two adults have the ability to consent to sex, so it's not for you to tell them how they become intimate. It grieves me to see you believe in the nonsense of the "flames of hell" and that you believe in a nasty, jealous and vengeful God. I believe in a loving and merciful God who wants all His children to be happy, including His gay ones.
See, there's this wonderful thing called separation of church and state. The reason for this is that not everyone believes in the same thing. Who woulda thought?! So it is this thing called separation of church and state that makes it so the government can't make a law based on their own religious beliefs.
Hypocrisy is a powerful issue. You may profess high morals in Utah, but I have heard that Utah has one of the highest rates of consuming internet pornography. I don't find these issues harmonious.
Gay marriage may not have the impact that detractors are perpetrating. I haven't decided on this issue, but I have prayerfully turned this matter over to God who knows more than my limited mind can conceive.
We don't want you in Calif. I was born and raised here and we are sick and tired of your type lurking in rest areas and wearing pants with your rears hanging out, and all types of perversions in front of our children. You have nobody to blame but yourselves, and then you think this bad behavior is going to get you your way, all it does is confirm what others have said. Leave our State!! Go to Mass. You can Marry there.........
homosexual marriage is not possible. God created males and females and God created marriage. There is no right to homosexual marriage because it's an impossibility. Homosexual acts are sinful and intrinsically evil.
yes because everyone follows the bible oh wait thats right we dont. most people pick and choose what parts of the bible to follow. if you eat shellfish that is a sin. you wear clothing of different matierials that is a sin yet i dont see people trying to ban that. if you would take the time to actually read the first bible you would notice there is not one word about homosexuality in there. in fact the word homosexual did not appear in the bible until the late 19th centuary
You make a good point, and it's true, there is no mention in the bible about homosexuality in the context that we know it today. I have a friend who is really religious but is completely for gay marriage and he handed me this pamphlet that was written by I think it might have been a priest but I could be wrong. Anyways it looked at every single scripture people use against gays, and put them into context, so every verse people use against gays is taken out of context.
It seems to me that homosexuality is counterintuitive to the desire to raise a family. This has always puzzled me that people who choose homosexual relationships still want to raise children. I think that raising children is a privilege, not a right, that is obtained by living by the principles of procreation, namely heterosexual relationships. While it is true that some hetero couples are sterile, they are still practicing the proper principle and should be rewarded for it. That's justmy 2cents
TheOptimusprime9 1 year ago
@TheOptimusprime9 Thanks, many gays and lesbians still have the desire to raise children because it is a instinctual as our other drives, for food, for companionship, and seems to be completely separate from our orientation. Add in the fact that there are many children in the world who need a home but for whom there are not enough heterosexual couples to adopt all of them. I think many gays and lesbian feel that they are capable of raising these children to be fine adults.
edgwaterprog 11 months ago
@edgwaterprog I'm sure that they do and I'm confident that many would be capable. It just feels like they are making exceptions for themselves. Why should they get to enjoy all the same privileges that come from a heterosexual relationship without having to live by the same principles? It seems unfair to me.
TheOptimusprime9 11 months ago
@TheOptimusprime9 I am not sure what you mean? What exceptions are homosexuals "making" for themselves? What principals are they not living with that heterosexuals are compelled to live?
edgwaterprog 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@edgwaterprog I'll refer you to my previous comments.
TheOptimusprime9 11 months ago
@TheOptimusprime9 "homosexuality is counterintuitive to the desire to raise a family." Obviously, your sense is wrong. Not only do many LGBT people want to raise children, but study after study shows that they are just as capable as straight parents, & their children are just as happy, healthy & well-adjusted
" I think that raising children is a privilege, not a right." Would that that were the case! Think about how many children are beaten, abused, molested and abandoned by straight parents
TheStrong32 1 month ago in playlist More videos from mormonstories
@TheStrong32 Yes, there are straight parents who don't deserve to have custody of their children, that is the case. This shows that there are things we can choose to do that make us loose the privilege of raising children. I feel for gay people who want to start families of their own, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
TheOptimusprime9 1 month ago
you're really lucky that you found out we just live once. after life ? happy ever after ? wake up it's fairy tales, hell or hevaen is now. it's up to you.
jasontrail 1 year ago
So you are advocating "civil unions" for everyone? And legal "marriage" for none? I used to joke about this years ago. In fact many LBGT folks currently jokingly say that we'll accept Domestic Partnership or Civil Unions only if it is the only option for everyone. But, you are actually advocating this?
omniandros2 1 year ago
If you act on your Gay tendencies then it is a sin. You can say your gay and thats fine BUT being gay is a choice! and it is evil!! not to mention sick and wrong!
lt500man 1 year ago
@lt500man I, as a queer person, respect your views and certainly would not seek to change them. I do not agree with your conclusions, but I respect them. As a result, I will not belittle, judge or put-down your faith or beliefs. I would simply respectfully disagree. Is it possible that you would be able to return the respect?
omniandros2 1 year ago
If Marriage is a religious function why should the state (Any Government) be the one to decide what it is or isnt? I would urge all gay rights activates to be fair in this and instead of forcing a definition to be accepted by all that they strive and remove any definition. As that is a cause both would benefit from. The state, the schools, and any public organization or office has no right to impose a definition on anyone. If families choose to teach their children about gay marriage so be it.
Elchochkie 1 year ago
The problem is Prop 8 infringes on the rights of those who do not want to accept gay marriage as a definition in society.. But in the same respect to Homosexuals they have been forced into accepting the definition of what a marriage is for years. What becomes apparent is it is the "definition" of marriage that imposes on either side. the question should be how can both exist not being imposed upon? the answer is there should be NO definition done by the state.
Elchochkie 1 year ago
@Elchochkie isn't that what same sex marriage advocates are saying? That the definition should simply be "two consenting adults"?
omniandros2 1 year ago
@omniandros2 yes but who will marry them? It's the word "Marriage" that carries weight to religious institutions. It is the foundation of a family. Marriage between those of the same sex this is impossible. The bottom line is if the STATE (country) never defined marriage at all and which is how it has been, Then there would be absolutely no problem. religions have no issues with civil unions for contractual purposes. But they do with the government defining what a marriage is or isn't.
Elchochkie 1 year ago
@Elchochkie I respect that some religious beliefs systems believe that same sex people should not marry. However, the state can not be governed based on some religious beliefs. The state can define legal marriage however it wants so long as its constitutional. The religious can practice marriage as they wish regardless of how it is defined legally. I fail to understand, given this, what the problem is -- other than an effort to legally impose their beliefs into law and onto same sex couples.
omniandros2 1 year ago
@omniandros2 Ok I don't think you understand this but the only reason you want same sex couples to marry is because the government has defined marriage. Its the word "marriage" that Christians have a problem with the state defining. it's a religious function. much like baptism Is a religious function. at one time back in Europe the state did define what baptism and it was a definition that was not accepted by those early protestants.
Elchochkie 1 year ago
@omniandros2 In fact many other religious activities were defined. that is why they left and came here. the problem happened after the government wanted in to the marriage business and chose to define it legally as a man and a women. That is what has screwed you. Not any religious institution. If marriage was defined as it always had been, Privately you would never have had this problem.
Elchochkie 1 year ago
@Elchochkie Marriage was never "legally" defined as between a man and a woman. It simply historically, given the status of same sex relationships, was always assumed to be such. This is why religious organizations pushed the ballot to change the language of the definition of marriage to "be between a man and a woman". They have explained this as necessary to maintain the "common sense" definition of marriage. So, the backers of Prop 8 (religious people) are the people stopping same sex marriage.
omniandros2 1 year ago
@omniandros2 You are still not getting the point, or are choosing to neglect the majority of my argument. Of course it was legally defined. that is why prop 8 happened. it was to amend the constitution back to what its original definition was between M & W. you have not said anything of the base of my argument being that the state should not define marriage AT ALL. left privately we can define marriage as what ever we want.
Elchochkie 1 year ago
@omniandros2 Let me give you an example. in the LDS church we do something called "Sealing." because in our belief marriage and family can be eternally bound only through this ordnance. as it stands being "sealed" is defined privately. which give me the liberty to define it as the sealing between husband and wife for this life and the life to come. I could care less what the state says. I only care about what happened that day at the temple ceremony.
Elchochkie 1 year ago
@omniandros2 now if the state chose to define the word "sealing" as well as marriage then we again have a problem. its not necessarily how its defined its the fact that its defined by the government at all. Religious people have no issues with contractual agreements between two individuals for reasons of property and taxes (civil unions) we only have a problem with the state DEFINING the word "marriage". are you understanding my argument? do you see how this could mutually benefit both sides?
Elchochkie 1 year ago
@Elchochkie I'm trying to get your point. So, basically you are saying that the state should abandon the institution of marriage all together, and instead simply allow couples to have a contractual agreement with one another regardless of the gender make up of the couple. In doing so, the word "marriage" becomes a religious ceremony in religious institutions and has nothing to do with the state. But, isn't this what almost happens now? People can have whatever ceremony they want in...
omniandros2 1 year ago
@Elchochkie ...whatever religious (or not) institution they want? Churches, temples, mosques, etc perform weddings and do so in whatever tradition and specifications mandated by their belief system. These "marriage" ceremonies have nothing to do with the state. So, where I am sincerely confused is what difference does it make how marriage is legally defined, when it doesn't change any individual's or religious organization's to perform, recognize or support marriages which do not fit their...
omniandros2 1 year ago
@Elchochkie ...understanding of it. For example-- My church believes that same sex couples can come together in matrimony, and performs such marriages regularly. In the eyes of my church, and several other churches in my area, the couple is recognized as married by them once the wed are witnessed in the church. The fact that the law has another definition and does not recognize it, does not change how my church defines and recognizes it. I am curious why your church couldn't do the same.
omniandros2 1 year ago
@omniandros2 You see now you are getting it! but the beauty of this is it doesn't matter because we can both interpret the word how ever we want in our own private institution. The problem is same sex couples want the physical benefits in society from being married. like taxes, property rights, inheritance etc. and the status of saying they are married. By allowing the government their only rightful role in enforcing and protecting contracts and alow us to define marriage privately....
Elchochkie 1 year ago
@omniandros2 This way all parties can be happy. and just argue about it in a philosophical sense. much like it is done with any other philosophical dispute.
Elchochkie 1 year ago
@Elchochkie The fact that the government chose to define marriage made it clear that now religious institutions. had to make sure what THEY believed the word marriage to be was defined as they have always seen it. this is why i say the better stance for both sides would be to both say the government should no longer define marriage. Bottom line if you take the government out of it then we can all have what we want, Got It?
Elchochkie 1 year ago
Clark you're just awesome!!! Love ya buddy!
Rockymtntruth 2 years ago
Prejudice is not the same as Miscreant ...!
Who do You Want Guard Your Little "Lambs" a Wolf or the Shepard...?
chachapc007 2 years ago
all people ever care about is their own damn self...not even thinking about what god wants for us...why should we put ourselves before him?? he is our creator, our heavenly father...i swear so many people is gonna fall into the pits of hell because of their blind ignorance...its satans work...and its rising everyday as time goes by..oh god help us all
fate241 2 years ago
god didnt create us
know why?
god isnt real
idaman12345 2 years ago
then you are not real
fate241 2 years ago
why because i live in reality and know that there is no such thing as a god?
idaman12345 2 years ago
tell me, what exactly is reality? the fact that people from the beginning of time has made up the idea of "god"? that there are thousands of ways, cultures, countries, people from all over the world believe there is some kind of entity higher than us?? Reality being that we all have a mother and a father passing down.
fate241 2 years ago
Have you ever tried or have any experience in knowing who god is? And most of all, the reality that we are humans and we have a conscience, heart/feelings, mind, choices, spirit, etc..
fate241 2 years ago
@fate241 read a biology book. personal experience is not proof for god.
VD3Z 2 years ago
biology aint worth shit...its all filled with stupid scientific theories..tell me this, how do you know "god" does not exist?
fate241 2 years ago
fate241:
How does one disprove the existence of the flying spaghetti monster? the flying pink unicorn? santa claus? how about big foot, the lochness monster, or the gnomes that keep stealing my sharpened pencils?
You cannot disprove the existence of something which does not exist because there is nothing to disprove.
johnpatrick818 2 years ago
sure there is..
fate241 2 years ago
@fate241
Biology is a science. The same stuff that brings us technology and progress and is responsible for most of us even still being alive right now.
God is the imagination of drooling imbeciles wasting my air, and holding back the progress of humanity.
Shavarnarak 1 year ago
@Shavarnarak yes...and its all been made by "man"..who is "not perfect" ..but then again, we are all entitled to our own opinions..
fate241 1 year ago
considering that most couples who get married are not religious, they really should change the marriage where people will be able to the same rights as married couples and not call it marriage, since marriage is a religious sacrament, the government should separate the benefits from traditional marriage
nj623victory 2 years ago
If you want to be gay, be gay. I don't give a fuck what you do in your bedroom. However, "marriage" is done in a church, and is a fusion contract that has religous and legal aspects. I do think gays should be able to get the same benefits (ie: seeing their partner in the hospital and insurance type connections) as heterosexuals. Just don't call it "marriage". I don't hate gays, but marriage is marriage.
PersonGuyDude1212 2 years ago
gays dont WANT to be gay, its not a choice bro.
clubheadxtasy2 2 years ago
I think you are missing the entire point. We are not against gay people. Our beliefs do not change with the world either. I respect the desire for one to be gay... but it's not natural for us as a community to be teaching that these are correct principle to our children.
suicidemedicine1 2 years ago
Being opposed to gay marriage is good, but it is more important to get them saved than it is to fight against them in court.
godluvsmormons 2 years ago
Look, I don't think gay people need to be saved any more than you do. .
MarkieWatch100 2 years ago
I definitely need to be saved, and thanks be to God, I was many years ago and still live for Jesus today. The worst sin gays commit is not sexual perversion, it is not repenting before God, and acknowledging their need for Jesus as savior. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, but not all admit their guilt before Him, and humble themselves before Him. That more than anything else is why people go to hell, because they refuse God's remedy for their sin, and say they don't need Him.
godluvsmormons 2 years ago
You are truly full of empty phrases and words. You sound like a parrot to me. So what is sexual perversion to you and do you have any special knowledge in to that area? after all, you seem a bit obsessed with the sex thing. And keep in mind Dear that there are christian gays so don't stereotype people. Who are you to call out who are sinners or not, I thought you should leave that up to God. You are very judgemental and self rightous.
MarkieWatch100 2 years ago
If anyone is judging, it is certainly is not me. I "judge" only by God's word, and when one does that, one is judging by truth. There may very well be Christians who struggle with homosexual thoughts and desires, but there are no openly and wantonly homosexual Christians. That is no more possible than being openly and wantonly a rapist, or a liar, etc. and being a Christian. A Christian is one who has repented (changed their mind) of their sin, and no longer accepts it as permissable.
godluvsmormons 2 years ago
Fuck you.
ExtremeBogom 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Jesus loves you anyway.
godluvsmormons 2 years ago
Seriously what's wrong with you?
ExtremeBogom 2 years ago
Would you like an alphabetical list, or in order of importance? I am a former drunk, a former (and sometimes current) porn addict, I struggle with anger, I am a reforming liar, I have fantasies and drems too wicked to even mention on this channel and I am a coward. These things are what are wrong with me. What is right with me is Jesus. His love, His salvation and His strength are the only things keeping me alive, keeping me sane and keeping me from doing terrible things to people and to myself.
godluvsmormons 2 years ago
I'm sorry for your hardships, you do sound like you need "keeping in line".
This Clark fellow however; does not.
ExtremeBogom 2 years ago
They are not hardships, they are sin. If this man or any man lives openly and wantonly in any sin, then they are in need of Jesus. It is not "being gay" that condemns gays, it is living the so called lifestyle without remorse, regret or repentance. The only real difference between the lost and Christians is that we have acknowledged our need for a savior, and that we are sinners, while they refuse to do so.
godluvsmormons 2 years ago
Surely you can't think that way.
This man is the same as me and you.
I'm guessing you think this guy was 'possessed' from his young years then?
ExtremeBogom 2 years ago
I have no idea if he is possessed, but all are sinners, & fall short of the glory of God &all deserve hell. God in His mercy and grace has come to earth as a human, experienced life as one of us, yet without sin. He then experienced death, becoming our sacrifice and allowing all who trust in Him to be saved, and go to eternal paradise. All God demands from us is trust in Jesus, and admittance of our sin before Him. Gays are often too proud to do this, so it is for that reason they are condemned
godluvsmormons 2 years ago
You sir; are a lost cause.
ExtremeBogom 2 years ago
No, I am found cause. You are lost if you have not repented and placed your faith in Jesus.
godluvsmormons 2 years ago
Let's just leave this, this is silly.
You have your views, I have mine.
ExtremeBogom 2 years ago
Misconceptions abound among both antagonists and advocates of homosexuality. Same gender attraction is usually neither a 'choice', nor from being 'born that way'. It's a false dichotomy. Rather, it's likely a product of experience, tacit reinforcement, and thinking patterns, combined with and reciprocally influencing neurochemistry. All influencing what triggers sexual responses during key developmental periods of life. Interpretations of sexual responses are important factors too.
Stepback84 2 years ago
It's just another byproduct of the fall of man and the subsequent separation of God and man that only Jesus can heal.
godluvsmormons 2 years ago
are you a doctor?
MarkieWatch100 2 years ago
Clark Pingree,
Thank you for sharing your story! You and your family are an inspiration. I too felt very hurt by our church's heavy involvement in Prop 8. I am impressed that you have been able to somehow bridge the gap between your religious belief and upbringing and your sexuality. It is a tuff one in the LDS faith.
JOEPITT9 2 years ago
"Love the sinner and hate the sin". All that means is you hate me. I am not sinning. I am not a perversion and if you think you being born straight is ordained of god and I am not just because you are attracted to something I am not. You are a bigot.
apatameh 2 years ago
Not bigotry, you just have a problem that you need to overcome, it can be done.
prestda1 2 years ago
prestda1,
You believe that homosexuality is something that one needs to overcome? It can be done? How? I have yet to meet one gay man who has "overcome" homosexuality. Do you have any examples for me? Someone who has actually "overcome" homosexuality?
JOEPITT9 2 years ago
When I say overcome, I am referring to the behaviour itself...as for the inclininations I have no answer. Since you are Mormon, you no doubt have heard it all and so I won't rehash. In spite of your own inclinations you chose to marry a woman and have a family...so I ask you, has it been worth it?
prestda1 2 years ago
prestda1, Thank you for clarifying. Many LDS people that I have spoken with, including my church leaders, have told me that if I work hard enough my "inclinations" will go away. I chose to marry a woman after much discussion and prayer. Your question is difficult to answer. Some days I think I have made a terrible mistake. I feel bad for the situation I have put my wife in. I cannot deny my love for my family, my wife, my children. But I respect the decisions of good men like Clark Pingree .
JOEPITT9 2 years ago
I don't have a problem with my sexuality. I don't feel it needs to be overcome and I wouldn't want to. I am completely happy with myself for the first time in my life. I could say your religious beliefs are your problem that you need to over come, it can be done. I've done it! So can you. Not being LDS is the best thing that ever happened to me.
apatameh 2 years ago 2
We love all men and women. No matter their sexual preference. But marriage is ordained of god and homosexuality is not. The only words I can really say to this man is simply... "follow the prophet." Put your "wisdom" aside and follow a prophet of God.
JazzFan4719 2 years ago
Prop 8 was the best thing that could have happend to the gay community . Since its win the our Nation looks up on it as a sad day for freedom and has chosen to side with us. Not Calibama.
Clemburke1111 2 years ago
Gays don't give a damn about what YOU do with consenting adults behind closed doors. Why is everyone else dependent on YOUR approval? Who made YOU God and ruler over all people?
Grow up and stop thinking so much more of yourself than is necessary. I assure you there are many men (and women) who are by far better human beings than you. Their sexuality has nothing to do with it.
Equality is a dirty word to those who enjoy legally discriminating. The end of unfairness is near. Live with it!
polkadotbox2 2 years ago
I can understand why a gay Mormon would feel saddened (to say the least) by the massive organized action in favor of Prop 8. I can only say--that as painful as it might be--this church is NOT for you and you may need to move on.
gregorvonkallahann 2 years ago
There are many people who simply don't have any use for religious dogma, especially when it goes against common sense.
Equality is coming, with or without the blessings of faith-based bigots. Live with it. Get a life, then live and let live.
polkadotbox2 3 years ago
Some of us Christians believe in Equality too. Just as the gay and lesbian community does not want to be stereotyped, those of Christian faith do not want to be grouped with extremists. Jesus taught peace, humity, love, and kindness. That is all that needs to be remembered.
rachaelletice 2 years ago
The you would vote NO on 8?
Otherwise your talk about kindness and love is invalid.
polkadotbox2 2 years ago
anyone thinking there is something wrong with gay people needs to grow up...didnt you guys watch brains story? dont you guys see the pain discrimination can cause? Think if you were gay would you want to be treated different? come on man its 2009 Homophobia, racism, religion, all that should be dead by now, start thinking logically.
tghetto5 3 years ago
I was raised mormon/religious, but! By the time I became accountable as a reasoning adult and thought for my-self, scientific thought and rational evidence led me to believe otherwise. The concept of "Freedom From Religion" is more important than "Freedom of Religion" The first protects the individual, that latter, the institution, but if you reverse the order, you give the institution license to oppress. Life does not have to have 'God' to give it direction just a bit of imagination and, love!
danielnz1 3 years ago 3
"The equal rights of man, and the happiness of every individual, are now acknowledged to be the only legitimate objects of government." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray, 1823.
danielnz1 3 years ago 3
Freedom from religion means you want to deny others the right to religion and freedom of speech. This is clearly against the founding father's intentions. Without God you have no basis to claim any rights. You are simply talking about power - what you can do, not what you have a right to do.
imbonnie 3 years ago
You have the right to express any opinion you want. This does not give the right of religious groups to impose its beliefs on legislation, especially if it does not affect the autonomy of religious organisations, such as proposition 8.
timonline2000 3 years ago
Oh, I see...so only "non religious" groups have a right to impose their beliefs?
imbonnie 3 years ago
No. It is immoral to impose beliefs which discriminate against others, such as what happened with Proposition 8. One victory for common sense was the right for same sex couples to adopt in Massachusetts.
timonline2000 3 years ago
Laws will be based on one set of beliefs or the other. You want marriage defined according to your beliefs so you want your beliefs imposed.
imbonnie 3 years ago
I do want my beliefs imposed on the law regarding gay marriage, because they advocate equality. Yet my beliefs (And Prop 8's) do not demand that Churches officiate at same-sex weddings, so I am not imposing my beliefs on other people or on religious organisations.
timonline2000 3 years ago
Bonnie, everyone should respect everyone elses religion. So should we respect the religious views of Al-Qaeda? There is a reason for seperation of church and state. Please answer this for me. Set aside your religious beliefs for one minute. Do you think that a majority has a right while a minority does not? I really really would like you to answer that. And yes, marriage is a RIGHT. If a man and women were not allowed to marry the first thing they would say is, we have the RIGHT to get married.
peaceispatriotic7 3 years ago 8
The majority has the power to impose their will that is why it is important that it be a moral majority. Only then will anyone have rights. Just because someone claims a right does not make it a right. There is no right to marriage between gays because it is not possible. There is clearly a difference between a union of a man and woman which can produce new life and a homosexual union which produces nothing. Therefore to define them as the same is not correct. There is a big difference.
imbonnie 3 years ago
You're going round in circles. You ignore what I said about mixed-sex relationships where children cannot be born. You close your eyes to the reality of same-sex unions and the way they strengthen relationships and the communities around them.
timonline2000 3 years ago
Bonnie, there are a lot of man/women relationships that can not produce new life. After I had my second child, I was sterile. In your view should I have been able to have sex after I knew I was sterile? Really, what bothers me so much is that a lot of people hide behind what they think the Bible says and their TRUE feelings on homosexuality. Just come out and admit that it bothers you. You all want to protect marriage, don't get divorced.
peaceispatriotic7 3 years ago 13
In a dramatic reversal, Attorney General Jerry Brown filed a legal brief saying the measure that amended the California Constitution to limit marriage to a man and a woman is itself unconstitutional because it deprives a minority group of a fundamental right.
"It became evident that the Article 1 provision guaranteeing basic liberty, which includes the right to marry, took precedence over the initiative," he said in an interview Friday night.
danielnz1 3 years ago 3
Thats right danielnz1! Jerry Brown finally came to his senses! Again, I respect the religious views of many, but this is a CONSTITUTIONAL issue! A majority has a right and a minority is denied that same right. And yes, it is a right! Actually, you can call it anything you want, but it is discrimination to allow a majority a ___ and deny a minority the same ____ . It's just fact!
peaceispatriotic7 3 years ago
Yes, I agree! The concept of "Freedom From Religion" is more important than "Freedom of Religion" The first protects the individual, the latter, the institution, but if you reverse the order, you give the institution license to oppress.
danielnz1 3 years ago
You are very intelligent danielnz1. Mark my words, Prop. 8 will be overturned in the California Supreme Court. The hypocracy of the Mormons is truly unbelievable. (Other than my Dad, his family is heavily Mormon.) The religion as a whole has changed views in regard to marriage numerous times. This is the same group of people that thought it was a sin for a black and white to marry. They used to not allow blacks in their church. Con't.
peaceispatriotic7 3 years ago
As for polygamy, (I am going to use false names because I am talking about myself), but this is the story of why my last name is what it is. My Great, Great Grandfather had 2 wives. Both wives last name was Smith. Then the law changed but Grand-dad wanted to keep both wives so he just changed one of their last names to Jones. Hence, my last name should be Smith, but it's Jones, (a made up name.) They lived in Mesquite, Nevada, a very Mormon town. Actually Las Vegas, Nevada is very Mormon.
peaceispatriotic7 3 years ago
The point I am trying to make is that religion changes views all the time and interpretation of the Bible changes all the time. The Catholic religion is just as guilty. We have become so jaded in regard to the Constitution. The right wing seems to think that their religious beliefs trumps the Constitution and it does not. Again Prop. 8 will be overturned just like Prop. 22 was.
peaceispatriotic7 3 years ago
I was raised religious(mormon) but! By the time I became accountable as a reasoning adult and thought for my-self, scientific thought and rational evidence led me to believe otherwise. The concept of "Freedom From Religion" is more important than "Freedom of Religion" The first protects the individual, that latter, the institution, but if you reverse the order, you give the institution license to oppress.
Life does not have to have 'God' to give it direction just a bit of imagination and love!
danielnz1 3 years ago
Hi Daniel! If I am right, you are living in New Zealand. My best friend Zandra, (my ex-husbands wife, if you can belive it), is from NZ. (If you look up liberal in the dictionary, my picture should be there.) One of the definitions of liberal is being open minded and that I am guilty. I think you and her would get along well. They obviously raise them right there. And ya, all we need is love! I think John Lennon said that (-:
peaceispatriotic7 3 years ago
Cheers! Well you can (and they do) be elected Prime-Minister here even if you are Atheist or Agnostic. There's a good separation of adult fairy-tales (blind-faith religion)and State.
danielnz1 3 years ago
@peaceispatriotic7 I am on your side, but just wanted to point out that asking a a person devoted to their religious faith to set it aside for a moment, is like asking an American to set aside their cultural experience and think from another cultural experience. No matter how hard one could try, they simply would not be able to do it. That said, I respect people's religious views, I simply do not agree with some people's religion-based conclusions about same sex marriage.
omniandros2 1 year ago
Homosexuality is WRONG, always has been, always will be. Religion rejects homosexuals therefore homosexuals reject religion and want to destroy it, and God. No matter what Homosexuals do they will never get Marriage. It has NOTHING to do with interracial marriage between OPPOSITE sexs. It's as if homosexuals believe that the more they say it the more true it becomes. The Civil rights struggle is now being subjected to the attempted hijacking by "The Gay Mafia" pushing the gay agenda.
mytimeisnigh 3 years ago
well said
imbonnie 3 years ago
Of course, we hate religion. Religious people treat us as untouchables even if we are celibate. They discriminate against us in employment, housing, and education. The Catholic church burned us to death for centuries. Why would we be stupid enough to trust it?
radiofreerome 3 years ago
You've got gay men confused with Catholic priests. Gay men like fully sexually developed males, which means you are and always will be completely free from their attentions.
radiofreerome 3 years ago
It's too bad you've chosen to be gay because you're pretty cute. I hope you renounce homosexuality and get married and have children.
imbonnie 3 years ago
It's too bad you're such a cunt. You're actually an attractive woman.
radiofreerome 3 years ago
no such as a LDS gay man you losser
MickGatto 3 years ago
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
imbonnie 3 years ago
Imbonnie: in many of your videos you discuss your disability. Are you aware that Mormon apostle Dallin H Oaks compared homosexuals with disabled people in an interview a couple of years ago? Putting the two groups in the same box speaks volumes about the Mormon view of homosexuality, and in turn people with disabilities. To me, it's outrageous.
timonline2000 3 years ago
What's your point. I'm not mormon and I'm not a disability activist whining about discrimination. I am solution oriented. I post my videos to help others find solutions.
Homosexual acts are in the same category as other sexual sins such as fornication. It has nothing to do with race or disability. Shall we make a special protected class for liars, murderers and thieves as well? If homosexuals want to be offended because I believe homosexual acts are sins I don't care.
imbonnie 3 years ago
Perhaps you should ask Dallin H Oaks. I don't understand why he would want to class homosexuals with the disabled.
timonline2000 3 years ago
Saint Paul is clear about the consequences of homosexuality along with all other kinds of immorality.
imbonnie 3 years ago
marriage hasnt changed. a man and a women joined together. That is how simple the definition of marriage is. the only people trying to change marriage and redefine the entire human family are a small group of minority gays who think they deserve the right to change definitions around at there whim. No one else has tried to change marriage, it has always been about the joining of a man and a women to create families. For gays, its only about there special rights since they cant even procreate.
hertzogger 3 years ago
It's the religious fanatics who have all the special rights. They're protected under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Any idiot can make up a religion and find bigger idiots to follow it. What better examples could there be other than Mormonism and Scientology? Religion is undeniably a choice but it's protected no matter how stupid or evil it is. Thankfully, the courts in California have said that sexual orientation demands at least the same level of protection as religion. Deal.
radiofreerome 3 years ago
Do not compare this to being black. The civil rights movement - and the long and difficult history of African-Americans - is at very best, marginally similar to the attempt of same sex marriage. Seriously, don't.
arabeea 3 years ago
Even if they are marginally similar they are still similar. The laegality of this prop 8 is totally wrong. To discriminate against the GLBT community based on religion is wrong.
rent257gonzo 3 years ago
The legality is wrong because you don't agree with it? You want marriage defined according to your beliefs?
imbonnie 3 years ago
You simply can't say the legality is wrong cause you don't believe in it. We do not base laws off of religion. We base them on a legal standpoint. If you can give me one legal reason as to why gay marriage shouldnt be allowed then i would be totally in support of prop 8. But again all the reasons against gay marriage are about religion. Its illegal to kill and still not because of the bible but because of the fact that the you are taking away someones legal property or legal life they were given
rent257gonzo 3 years ago
Religion is simply a word that defines a set of beliefs. You want laws based on your set of beliefs, your religion. You want marriage defined according to your beliefs.
Real marriage brings forth new life and is the foundation of society. Thus society has a vested interest in protecting marriage. Homosexual acts bring forth nothing and are immoral.
People's minds have been so darkened they can't even see the natural law and order of things anymore.
imbonnie 3 years ago
you say "real" marriage what is a "real" marriage. marriage is no longer a religious ceremony. you get married in courts on beaches in backyards even. Marriage is a LEGAL right not a religious right because you get legal benefits for getting married its that simple.
rent257gonzo 3 years ago
There is no such thing as "gay marriage." It is an impossibility and therefore cannot be a right. Marriage is not a legal right because prop 8 passed. The no on 8 crowd is predominantly anti religious and do not respect people's right to religion and free speech. That's why my "yes on 8" sign on my yard and bumper sticker on my car (another day) were taken. They have no regard for the law.
imbonnie 3 years ago
prop 8 passed based off of religion not legality. why do you think state legislative is allready trying to over turn the vote again. because it is legally wrong. And im very sry that your yes on 8 stuff got stolen but that does not reflect the no on 8 side as a whole criminal acts were done by both sides. you have a right to you religion and free speech. but you dont have the right to deny others thier legal rights. once you put legal rights into something it should be equal.
rent257gonzo 3 years ago
I have a right to vote and I voted yes on 8. Your set of beliefs is no more "legal" than anyone else's. Stop trying to shove your homosexual agenda on everyone else.
imbonnie 3 years ago
Your right you do have a right to vote. But your voting on a civil issue not a moral issue. Once you start getting involved with someones legal rights based on your religion then we have a problem. you have every right to believe in your religion but dont take away other peoples rights based on your religion.
rent257gonzo 3 years ago
Sodomy is not a civil right, sorry, nice try.
imbonnie 3 years ago
What does sodomy have to do with marriage.... Again you keep using things that have nothing to do with gay marriage.
rent257gonzo 3 years ago
There's no such thing as gay marriage.
imbonnie 3 years ago
There is no such thing as gay marriage in the world of the bible maybe but seperation of church and state. This is a legal issue not a religious one.
rent257gonzo 3 years ago
There is in Connecticut, Massachusetts, Canada, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands. Their societies are still functioning, and the different Churches maintain their autonomy and freedom to disciminate. So you're wrong.
timonline2000 3 years ago
Gay marriage is an impossibility whether the state approves it or not.
imbonnie 3 years ago
But it's there for all to see in the places I named earlier, so it's not only possible, it's a reality. It's as if you're sticking your fingers in the your ears and going "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU"
timonline2000 3 years ago
It's not reality because those marriages aren't real whether the state approves them or not. They are just fooling themselves. I hear you. I just disagree with you because you are wrong. There have never been any gay couples married because it is an impossibility.
imbonnie 3 years ago
You seem to have an odd definition of "real" and "reality". For me and most people, "real" means that it physically exists, like same sex marriages in the places I mentioned where they're legally binding. Are you trying to suggest they are not recognised by God? That depends on your belief, because I believe they are. If you take a Mormon view, only temple marriages are accepted as "bound by God", so unfortunately, civil heterosexual weddings are also not "real" in that sense.
timonline2000 3 years ago
absolutely I am saying they are not recognized by God. Jesus said what the intention was from the beginning - that a man and woman come together and become one. What God recognizes is not dependent on my belief. My belief or yours does not change God. God revealed his truth through his son Jesus who came to testify to the truth.
imbonnie 3 years ago
OK, now that we know you do not believe same-sex marriages are bound by God, it is an act of denial and extreme naivety to say that they do not exist, because they do.
I disagree with your belief that homosexual acts are sins. I do not know of anything that Jesus (who fulfilled the Mosaic law) said in the 4 Gospels about homosexuality. I believe that God is loving and accepting enough to recognise and bless sincere same sex couples as much as a sincere heterosexual couple.
timonline2000 3 years ago
Ok, so you disagree with me. That makes one of us wrong and one of us right. Society will choose one or the other. It cannot choose both as gay marriage is either legal or illegal. I'm going to vote to define it the way I believe is right. I have no obligation to vote according to your beliefs.
And Jesus did define marriage when he was talking about divorce. He said how God intended things to be from the beginning. Mark 10:6
imbonnie 3 years ago
Mark 10:6 "But at the beginning of creation God `made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
God joined males and females. It's common sense. The union creates children and family. There is no comparison to gay unions which produce nothing.
imbonnie 3 years ago
Firstly, if God created people male and female, what about those others who are born with both not no sexual organs. Whatabout those who are unable to feel attraction to others of either sex, for whatever reason? In Jesus' time, marriage had little to do with love (that's a modern phenomenon), and was about securing finances, property and preventing inter-family feuds. This definition of marriage is no longer compatible with humankind's current understanding of sex, gender and sexuality.
timonline2000 3 years ago
He created them to.
imbonnie 3 years ago
What about those males and females who marry after reproductive age, or those men and women who for other reasons either cannot or choose not to have children? On that basis, those unions also creating "nothing".
timonline2000 3 years ago
The purpose of sex is twofold - unity and procreation. The church teaches that these should not be separated and that all sexual acts are open to life. Homosexual acts cannot be open to life because life is not possible. God gave Sarah a child in her old age but never has a child been conceived through homosexual sex.
imbonnie 3 years ago
If unity is the purpose of sex, why can't a same sex couple strengthen their relationship through sex? The miracle of Sarah giving birth is meaningless when virtually all infertile couples and older newlyweds never have children.
timonline2000 3 years ago
because their relationship perverts the true meaning of sex.
imbonnie 3 years ago
And the true meaning of sex is..?
timonline2000 3 years ago
Take god out of the equation. Sex is designed for intimacy between people of the opposite sex's, that design is undeniable. Therefore, if something is used for something other than what it is designed, it is a PERVERSION of its intended use.There are many things you can do, that you shouldn't do. Just because you can, and you have consenting adults that makes perverting the sex act OK in your mind ? Why is there irreparable damage done to the colon if sodomy is so natural ?
mytimeisnigh 3 years ago
I believe that sex can be used for intimacy between people of the same sex: the Bible's teachings on male-male sex refer to exploitation, which is wrong in all sexualities. "Irreparable" damage to the colon from anal sex is not a universal occurrence. Besides, if male-female vaginal sex is so natural, why are some men impotent? Why do some women also sustain injuries from sex?
timonline2000 3 years ago
"I believe that sex can be used for intimacy between people of the same sex" What you believe, practice, and or promote is not "Normal" If you are using "sex" in a way it wasn't designed , same sex vs opposite sex intercourse, then it is a perversion by the very definition of the word. We could be having the same discussion about bestiality and if you were for bestiality you would make all the same arguments for it. Trying to reconcile what is wrong by somehow trying to make it right is insane.
mytimeisnigh 3 years ago
If you're going to decide something is right through being "normal", then your fundamentalist Christianity is also not normal. If you want to call homosexuality "bestiality", then you deny some humans' status as children of God, which goes against the Christian commandment to love one's neighbour. That's utterly tragic.
timonline2000 3 years ago
The bible is clear that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. Saint Paul warns us not to be deceived and then lists a number of people who will not inherit the kingdom of God - idolators, fornicators, homosexuals and so forth.
imbonnie 3 years ago
Like I said earlier, I don't believe the "sodomy" spoken of in the Bible refers to all homosexuals, only those who exploit others sexually. I won't be deceived by the self- righteous scaremongers professing prejudicial fundamentalist beliefs, because I believe more in tolerance and understanding.
timonline2000 3 years ago
as a gay man with many gay friends, I have never heard of anyone sustaining a colon injury. The colon and the rectum are different things there is a valve-like structure between the colon and rectum called the sphynctor, through wich things can only move in one direction(i.e. outward) so it isn't really possible to get a colon injury from anal sex
cgcsb 3 years ago
Anal Prolapse ever heard of it ? It's an injury that is caused by injury from anal sex. Damage to the colon is one of the complications from this. Have you ever read about "Pink Socks". You don't even know what you are doing to your own body, nor do you understand the health risks to you and others.
mytimeisnigh 3 years ago
Bonnie, I agree that we all have the right to vote how we choose. What makes me sick is people will not honestly admit why they feel the way they do. You want to crack open the Bible when you are uncomfortable with this issue. It used to be unlawful for different races to marry. Public opinion changed, it was not equality. Bottom line, a majority has a right and a minority is denied that right. If you set aside your religious beliefs, do you agree with my last statement?
peaceispatriotic7 3 years ago
The Bible also said that it was ok for a married man to have sex with another women if his wife was sterile. The Bible also says that slavery is ok. Please don't pick and choose from the Bible. It gives organized religion a bad name. We are all created equal! (With equal rights!) From a Christian Grandmother!
peaceispatriotic7 3 years ago
The bible also says the pillar and foundation of truth is the church. My foundation of truth is not, as you presume, my personal interpretation of scripture but rather the Catholic church which is guided by the Holy Spirit in all truth, and through it's authority compiled the bible. The Catholic church also interprets scripture correctly. The church's teachings are not limited to scripture however. The church also teaches those things that were passed down through oral tradition.
imbonnie 3 years ago
The Catholic church, which was instituted by Christ, teaches that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. I believe this. Also, it is self evident that homosexuality is against the natural law.
imbonnie 3 years ago
The Catholic Church motivates a lot of people to do good, yet I cannot believe in any organisation that covers up abuse of children by its representatives (some of its priests) without questioning it.
timonline2000 3 years ago
So were those priests who abused children guided by the Holy Spirit? Were those bishops and cardinals who brought about the Spanish Inquisition also guided by the Holy Spirit? What insidious things to come from an organisation with a "foundation of truth".
timonline2000 3 years ago
No, the priests who abused children were not guided by the Holy Spirit. They were committing grave sins. Just as homosexuals commit grave sins when they engage in homosexual acts. Christ warned ahead of time that there would be wolves in sheep's clothing. He also promised the gates of hell will not prevail against his church. Naturally, Satan will try and a most effective way is by going after priests.
imbonnie 3 years ago
So now you're comparing homosexuals, who have consensual sex as adults, with paedophiles, who take away the innocence of children. Frankly, that is abhorrent and absurd. Perhaps it is the Church, not Satan, who plays a role in the abuse of children, by not allowing its priests an outlet for their human desire for intimacy. This goes to the very highest level of the Roman Catholic Church. The abuse of children by priests was covered up to the highest level. How far up do these "wolves" go?
timonline2000 3 years ago
Yes, both are grave sins. Both sins will land a person in hell. If the flames will be hotter for pedophiles that's not much consolation. The fact that they are "consenting" simply means they have fulfilled one of the three criteria for a mortal sin. The other two are it must involve grave matter and a person must have full knowledge that it's a grave matter. Men know before they join the priesthood that they will be making the sacrifice of giving up sex. No one forces them to be priests.
imbonnie 3 years ago
What a perverse view of the world you have. You seem to say that a grave sin is a grave sin because it's a grave sin. What nonsense. Unlike a child, two adults have the ability to consent to sex, so it's not for you to tell them how they become intimate. It grieves me to see you believe in the nonsense of the "flames of hell" and that you believe in a nasty, jealous and vengeful God. I believe in a loving and merciful God who wants all His children to be happy, including His gay ones.
timonline2000 3 years ago
See, there's this wonderful thing called separation of church and state. The reason for this is that not everyone believes in the same thing. Who woulda thought?! So it is this thing called separation of church and state that makes it so the government can't make a law based on their own religious beliefs.
Stephaniek236 3 years ago
Cool and Cheers!
gqdr77 3 years ago
Hypocrisy is a powerful issue. You may profess high morals in Utah, but I have heard that Utah has one of the highest rates of consuming internet pornography. I don't find these issues harmonious.
Gay marriage may not have the impact that detractors are perpetrating. I haven't decided on this issue, but I have prayerfully turned this matter over to God who knows more than my limited mind can conceive.
g1e2c3k4o 3 years ago
We don't want you in Calif. I was born and raised here and we are sick and tired of your type lurking in rest areas and wearing pants with your rears hanging out, and all types of perversions in front of our children. You have nobody to blame but yourselves, and then you think this bad behavior is going to get you your way, all it does is confirm what others have said. Leave our State!! Go to Mass. You can Marry there.........
billfurd1 3 years ago
homosexual marriage is not possible. God created males and females and God created marriage. There is no right to homosexual marriage because it's an impossibility. Homosexual acts are sinful and intrinsically evil.
imbonnie 3 years ago
yes because everyone follows the bible oh wait thats right we dont. most people pick and choose what parts of the bible to follow. if you eat shellfish that is a sin. you wear clothing of different matierials that is a sin yet i dont see people trying to ban that. if you would take the time to actually read the first bible you would notice there is not one word about homosexuality in there. in fact the word homosexual did not appear in the bible until the late 19th centuary
rent257gonzo 3 years ago
You make a good point, and it's true, there is no mention in the bible about homosexuality in the context that we know it today. I have a friend who is really religious but is completely for gay marriage and he handed me this pamphlet that was written by I think it might have been a priest but I could be wrong. Anyways it looked at every single scripture people use against gays, and put them into context, so every verse people use against gays is taken out of context.
Stephaniek236