@Shaam2032 There is NO proof of gods. She does not exist.
There is FAR more proof for: Bigfoot (some proof but not fully proven), space aliens (lots of proof but not fully proven), 911 inside job (little proof), Anthropogenic Global Warming (proven) than there is of "gods" or "god" (absolutely zero proof).
How could this Dan Barker be so stupid as to waste 19+ years of his life preaching worthless excrement before growing a brain and realizing what a colossal stupid waste it was and how much damage he had done to children and youth?
Debate isn't about winning, it is about being honest to what you are putting forward, and so far (i'm only 17 minutes in) and he has taken 3 quotations out of context with the work he is quoting. If you are not honest in your statements you are simply being an ideologue.
@SultanOfSwords Hamza hasn't defeated anyone. You're delusional, but thanks for letting us all know. Hamza is an uneducated clown, running around playing make-believe and acting like his arguments are new or profound when it's recycled bullshit. Allah is man made, and gay.
Wow, the title is easy to awnser. Saving myself 2 hours, it is a fact the atheism is rational, and islam irrational. Simply because atheism is based on reason, skepcticsm, critical thinking, and evidence, while Islam is based on faith. No need to thank me for saving everyone 2 hours :)
@faction52 It is entirely blind faith based. There is no evidence for anything supernatural or godlike so please stop trying to pretend there is something there. What a stupid statement you made.
there is an element of faith there because here is no empirical evidence for the existence of God but it is not blind faith. anyone who just accepts it because it is written in the book is practicing blind faith, but Islam doesnt teach that, The quran says as i was stating earlier that it challenges the reader to reflect on is own existence and come to a reasoned conclusion of whether he or she believes that yes, there must be something..
..that started this off that has at least no beginning, or arise to the conclusion that no there is no divinity we just came into existence after the Big bang. And for many muslim/theist adherents, the question arises how did the big bang come into existence. the chain of causality would continue unless there was something infitnite and not bound to beginning or end. And please dont just discount other peoples commnts in a derogotary fashion just explain your side we're willing 2 hear
@faction52 Just say that the universe is eternal, leave out the middle-man (your god), because it offers nothing. Claiming there's a first cause is not only unsupported, but it's based on intuition and inductive reasoning - which you are extrapolating to the furthest degree in the "beginning" so to speak, of the universe. This is obviously flawed. I discount comments and arguments that are nothing but assertions and absurdities. Ridiculous claims deserve ridicule by definition.
@faction52 There doesn't "must be something". You didn't come to that from a reasoned perspective, because reason dictates support or basis, and there is none of that offered by Islam, or any theistic belief or religion. There's no good reason to believe these things are true, hence faith. This is why you have faith, and it is blind because there is no evidence. You have what people wrote, and nothing else. And you expect this to be "reasoned faith" ? Get real.
@faction52 and discourages free speech and freedom of thought because of the threat of terrible punishment should you criticize the koran, the islamic prophet or the islamic deity... (or death should one chose to leave that insanity).. amazing deceit..
BS! Muhammad violent SINFUL dead Murderer! Islam/Quran is corrupt! Jesus/Healed/Blessed/Peace/Salvation/GOD! All MUSLIMS who converted to Christianity ARE HAPPY & FREE OF ABUSE & MISERY Islam leaders are killing you! Christians LOVE YOU! PLEASE accept JESUS CHRIST as your SAVIOR John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! REBEL & ACCEPT JESUS! Be FREE of ISLAM LIES Visit cbn.com /radio
@tigersforchrist you are just as bad and just as irritating as the muslims... religious idiocy is wrong no matter who advocates what...christianity has as many lies as the rest..
@gilbert4321 let's simplify this axiom and make it valid:
christians and muslims make bullshit arguments for their respective dogmas (neither one makes sense)
Non believers don't buy into religious bullshit
And please... both sides.. stop quoting your bronze/iron age text from delirious desert dwelling goatherds.. your quotes makes NO sense to anyone except your deluded selves.
I like Hamza. I think he is intelligent, and entertaining. He would be a great anti-apologist if he ever sees the light.
Unfortunately he presents nothing new here, and is easily refuted by Barker. same old bullshit arguments long ago debunked. Jesus, some of his arguments are also used by Ray Comfort, which should be telling.
@AtheistPowerlifter explain to me the physical reality then, explain how we are in such a perfect position in the galaxy (Earth), how we just happen to have water and the sun to live, how we just freaking happen to have freaking air to breath in the only planet in the galaxy which has oxygen to live, how we have a system in our body to consume and take in the air, why didnt the big bang explode into a big bowl of mess, stop being arrogant and thinking your dad created everything.
@MojowidanAK You are looking at it from the wrong perspective...we are here because conditions happened to be right for our type of life on earth. That's it.
The planet and conditions aren't the way they are BECAUSE we are here. This is just typical theist arrogance. If conditions were different there would be different forms of life (like the huge insects that existed when we had a higher O2 content in the atmos), or there would be no life.
@AtheistPowerlifter "we are here because conditions happened to be right for our type of life on earth." - LOL are you serious!?!? "You seem to be the one who believes in a magic sky daddy, no?" im not christian, i dont beleive God is my dad or father nor do i believe he begets children, hes my creator, designer, who keeps this universe in the order it is now, but hey whatever, you can keep living the way your living, your just gona age, wrinkle and pass away like everyone else, then youll see
@MojowidanAK "we are here because conditions happened to be right for our type of life on earth."
Explain to me why this statemnt is so "LOL" as you put it. Also explain how, because of this statement, it leads you to state that I believe in a deity. I obviously believe that there is a natural explanation for the existence of the universe. Abiogenesis is in the process of being explained, and natural selection explains ALL life on earth from the 1st single cell organism forward.
@MojowidanAK And yes. We just age and die. What's your point? Do you find this unsatisfactory, and need the promise of an afterlife to give false consolation? I don't.
People who ask "Why are we here?" don't realize that it's a silly question. I am not saying that you are asking this - just making a point.
There is no reason we are here. We are here, and our brains have evolved enough that we can self reflect. That's it.
@AtheistPowerlifter lol i bet you are gona be those old people playing bingo in their last days in life, just trying to savour every last second becuase you think after this all that happens is your eyes permanently close and everything goes just ...dark....right? sad, good luck with your life mate.... peace.
@MojowidanAK "hes my creator, designer, who keeps this universe in the order it is now, but hey whatever, you can keep living the way your living, your just gona age, wrinkle and pass away like everyone else, then youll see"
So you seem to be a Deist by your own statement...but then you say "I'll see" after I die, which seems to imply you believe in a personal god who cares about us and gives us an afterlife. So which is it? And if so which god?
@MojowidanAK "why didnt the big bang explode into a big bowl of mess, stop being arrogant and thinking your dad created everything."
You don't understand the 'big bang'...well, almost no one does really. You should read about it. Look up the Lawrence Krauss video on youtube "a universe from nothing".
Funny you tell me to stop thinking my Dad created everything. You seem to be the one who believes in a magic sky daddy, no? I don't believe in magic or the spernatural.
Hamza Tzortis is a complete, utter idiot. The word, "Submit" is servile and weak" People who say, "I submit to Allah", have submitted their thinking faculties to ignorance and psychosis. Believing in Allah ≠ Logical; Believing in Muhammad as Allah's messenger = Psychotic and Delusional Finding or believing in God is a waste of time and energy.
How to lose all credibility in an argument about any of the thousands of gods - claim the nonbeliever in that god is angry at that god. Does it get any more fatuous? Bleh, that's all I can watch.
Tzortzis is laughably bad at logic. I laughed, I felt sad, I felt embarrassed. It was a veritable emotional rollercoaster.
Damn shame that Barker didn't point out that (1) the Arabic language was adjusted to conform to the Arabic found in the Qur'an after the fact in order to make its prose look better and that (2) PZ Myers had already fairly thoroughly schooled Tzortzis for his claims of Qur'anic foreknowledge of embryology, rendering him a touch dishonest in addition to a blathering idiot.
It doesn't matter to me if you are religios or not. It's not my business. I can't be responsible for others. What really matters to me is good attitude. Good intentions too. So I don't think that people calling for hate and intolerance are good people.
They are not. Not for me. I wish you can find your peace with any kind of fate you have without harming other people. Good luck.
@bergmanana Time? People like you and Hamza show me who is "truly religious" today. You lose the debate. You can keep trying to convince me, but day after day goes by & your argument for religion grows weaker and the religion you follow moves closer to obscurity just like all of the religions before it. Like Mr. Barker stated "Who here worships the god: Thor?" Allah & Yahweh are in line to disappear from the realm of fairy tales taken seriously by some. Stop wasting time defending nonsense.
I'll be honest... perhaps Ayaan Hirsi Ali or Maryam Namazi would have been a better debater in this one. Not sure how an ex-Christian pastor can say much about Islam, especially in debating Hamtza Tzortzis.
That's not to say that Dan doesn't do a good job. It was a good debate.
Wow, he pulled the "No atheists in foxholes" canard. Classy, Tzortzis. And also nicely supported. "As study done about the Titanic" as if there was such a thing, or that it could possibly have been conducted in anything close to an accurate fashion. I'm sure they polled everyone on the Titanic for their religious views when they walked on board, then followed it up with an exit poll...
I think most women undergoing torture in Afghanistan are probably atheists after all the shit they go through with no hope.
We in the first world worry about things like free speech to be the more important issues of the day.. but if just for one day you(religious people), lived the life of an Afghani woman.. and realize that no amount of praying will get out of that hopeless hell hole, you'd realize that the cozy life that you're thanking god for is just an accident of birth.
I wish I could see a debate between Tzortzis and William Lane Craig. The both use the same arguments yet reach different conclusions about the nature of God.
When he mentioned the "Blind Spot" being what we don't know that we don't know what we don't know - isn't that the ultimate argument from ignorance for god?
Why does Dan Barker bother with idiots like Tzortzis? They're not even *interesting* idiots - this one keeps repeating the claim that Mohammed was trained in advanced embryology by an angel's voice...but was somehow unable to explain the revelations without incredibly strained metaphors.
Hamza cannot deliver a point without beginning it with "First and foremost..." If everything is "First and foremost", nothing is "First and foremost".
Rule #1 for Religious Apologists: DON'T USE EXISTENTIALISM AS A JUSTIFICATION FOR RELIGION.DISTANCE YOURSELF FROM IT! It will just show you how mindless you really are and amply the pointlessness of religion too! And for ppl not realizing this oxymoron, read Philosophy Made Simple. As for Occam, use Rule #1. Use the Laws of Robotics instead of this verbal dribble coming from this religious "intellectual", it's a better book. Finally, word salad is an art not reasoning, and forget scientific.
Why do atheists engage theists like this? Trying to make them see reason and face facts is a Sisyphean and ultimately futile task. The meta-argument is: "Why do theists behave the way they do? I hereby put forward two possibilities;
1) It's a good gig, You can make some real coin milking the masses. And it's a profession with a long history. Just never fess up.
2) The brainwashed follow along because their lying leaders never fess up.
@JuliaLin2 They aren't doing it for the benefit of the person they are debating, but for the benefit of those who watch it. I appreciate their work as we won't be able to grow as a species until reason is valued over imaginary friends/fantasy/religion.
I agree with your statements on why theists behave like that do. Soldier on sister!
The muslim apologist is obnoxious as expected. Also, as expected, he conveniently ignores the most damning arguments against his position (never addresses evil, the definition of his god etc etc) and instead favors william lane craig style rationalizations for violence and focuses on easily squashed first cause arguments. When will these people realize their precious first cause arguments =/= their particular, narrow version of god.
Just starting this. The downside is, never having listened to this particular apologist, I feel obligated to put up with his bullshit, rather than skip to the more entertaining and intelligent atheist response. I'd ask you to pray for my sanity, but we all know that won't do crap, don't we ^_^
"You're angry aren't you? You sound angry!"... Shoulda responded "You're stupid aren't you? You sound stupid!" Luckily this man knows how to actually have a debate.
1) Any scientific proposition--lightening is a discharge of static electricity, time and space curve, tiny things call atoms are the basis of all matter, and matter is almost entirely empty space...etc.
2) God did it.
Yes, it turns out that imagining a magical creature that solves all problems with no need for explanation is simple. It's also fucking stupid.
@TBlake34 This clown doesn't even realize that Occam's Razor is not on his side. He argues that a) there is a magic man in the sky who has existed forever and has an infinite history of events that b) created the universe.
This seems like at least one more step than a) the universe, in some form, has existed forever and has an infinite history of events.
@aichpvee Yeah, he seems to think that parsimony within a theory means: "something satisfying that I don't have to think about."
You're absolutely correct. Once the implications of this magic, eternal, wise, merciful, merciless laser-beam shooting dude with a beard are actually considered, it's WAY more complicated, and unnecessarily so, than just theorizing that the stuff we can observe goes back indefinitely.
This religious goofball just gives up any notion of argument during the rebuttal phase and spews the normal gibberish.
I love the idea that any criticism of religion is just misunderstanding of the full meaning of the religion. How, pray tell, do we understand the full meaning? Well, dude, we just have to believe it first.
That's among the many reasons why religion is just completely irrational. It makes no sense until you decide to believe all of it.
@TBlake34 Right. It makes no sense until you decide to let go of your willingness to make sense of things. And when you've done that, you lose the ability altogether.
@TBlake34 When did he EVER say "WELL DUDE WE JUST HAVE TO BELIEVE IT FIRST"? or you're commenting on the wrong video? Either refute his claim, or get some brain and understand logic. ah! Cant blame descendant of an ape!
@gogaphantom "When did he EVER say "WELL DUDE WE JUST HAVE TO BELIEVE IT FIRST"?"
The entirety of Islam comes from the Qur'an. The Qur'an has no place as evidence as anything unless you presuppose that Mohammed was a prophet. If you do not, then the best explanation is that he was one of many hallucinating epileptics who were believed to be in touch with gods by ancient ignorants.
@gogaphantom You're ignorant of the fact that humans *are* apes and you're going to insult the intelligence of anyone? Did your mother drop you on your head repeatedly as a small child or were you just born this stupid?
@gogaphantom Ah, a literalist. You have accurately pointed out that he did not literally say those words in that order. I believe that if you follow his actual argument, to the extent that his gibberish can be described as such, you will notice that time and time again that when something particular horrible or ridiculous is quoted from his old book of fairy tales, he responds by arguing that atheists just don't get it. Reading apologist literature will explain it. Accept, THEN it makes sense.
@TBlake34 "It makes no sense until you decide to believe all of it."
Actually, it's impossible to be consistent. It's dead easy to demonstrate that Mohammed has the most embarrassingly false view of reality by reading Tabari's history etc. We're talking flat earth with a skydome and claims of the sun and the moon riding around in chariots in the heavenly ocean. And that's from a well respected early muslim intellectual This guy would have to call out Mohammed as a liar..
@TBlake34 Dude, im sorry if i ofended you bt, lets just say. Which one of these has more intellect? in general, who has studied more logic and philosophy? Hamza was an Atheist, do you think he gets paid for believing in a God? why would he convert to Islam? if the whole idea of god really is so gibberish, why then? either he is insane and without logic, or he is explaining this right. if he is insane, well, im sure that will cause more problems than it creates, he shudve been an atheist then.
@gogaphantom By roughly 1000% the person evincing a knowledge of rational argument and reasoned methods of inquiry is Mr. Barker.
Barker was a believer, you think he get's paid for being an atheist? The hell do you think that proves? This is the sort of argument one makes when reason isn't on their side.
But like Hamza's voice, your writings are rambling and incoherent. You're speaking with a ridiculous affect born of years of listening to preists and other religious folks babble at the sky.
@TBlake34 ROFLMAO, "affect born of years of listening to priests" haha, tht should have made barker the same since he had more interaction with priests :P
& u r wrong again haha! Getin out of religion opens al views of unlawful stuff, no moral values everythng is permisible. Wen u cant drink as a chrstian or a muslim, u get out of religion to do so! so why wud Hamza choose religion wen he could have EVERY joy of life in Atheism? Barker wantd tht &he left religion. so yea, is he or HE paid? :p
@atheistram dude, ur mistaken, check the previous conversations with the other guy. i'm not pointing it to barker, but the concept like-i asked him if hamza is paid when he converted to islam from atheism? so he said is barker paid? then i told him that religion = confinement, why wud someone leave atheism for it? to confine urself from drinking and the lame joys of life? ofc hamza knew there was something true about it or why would he confine himself for nothing? i hope you get my point.
@gogaphantom Yeah, that's a great argument. Let's look at the most religious countries in the world, hell, let's just look at the most Islamic countries in the world because that's the subject under discussion, do we encounter a lot of "morality?"
No one is tossing acid in women's faces in largely atheist Sweden.
But this isn't surprising. This dumb idea that religion is necessary for morality is really all you goofballs end up falling back to.
Wich religion is tht again? Islam? plz do ur homework befre stating somthin frm ur own head. If ur refering to Honor Killing, tht is NOT Islam, killing ones daughter becus she went out with a boy etc, that is Honr kiling &it is EXTREMELY discouraged by Islam. You have no idea how much Islam values Women &Wives. Lets see- whats the divorce rate in Your country and in Saudi Arabia? :)
If u r going to state lies, im sorry we canot continue this decent discussion
@gogaphantom Holy shit. Just amazing. You're actually pointing to the lower divorce rate as evidence that women are treated well? Divorce is one of the single institutions that most directly points to the rights of women.
It's really easy to have a low divorce rate if you force women into marriages and then never allow them to divorce. That's OPPRESSION of women, not women's rights. You're religion is so fucking backwards (as all they are).
@TBlake34 well if people force women to get married in Islam,is it from the teachings of Islam? that is what you need to find out.not just shooting of at the mouth and women can get divorced and that if from the teachings of islam. when you have now turned women into sexual objects,exploiting them.your twisted mentality now thinks you have liberated them. how sad!!
@TheFalconel Seriously, everything tht goes wrong goes with the blame on islam, everything tht preaches good promotes morality? bt wait, we are animals, where did morality come from? there is no god, then everything ought to be permissible. this fact alone proves tht there is a lot of truth in islam to be honest, the fact that when things go wrong they blame islam for it, and never for all the 99% good in it. besides, this also proves an unseen biased force doesnt it? 1% > 99%? <3
@TBlake34 please relate your comments together. do you have any idea what you are referring to in the first place? and what now? you say one thing, i answer it and the you ask another ignoring my former replies? faceroll too good man. why would someone force a woman to marry her and then keep her forced never to allow them to divorce? for the sake of religion you'd say hahah, a madman thinks what he thinks <3
@gogaphantom I always enjoy how ignorant the religious are of religion.
You cited a low divorce rate as evidence that women in the Islamic world are treated well. That's like citing the low number of escaped slaves as evidence that slavery is fun.
Islam only allows divorce in extraordinary circumstances. Thus, the religious cultural tradition is to restrict women's ability to direct their own lives, therefore low divorce rate.
It really isn't complicated. Christianity is much the same.
@TBlake34 Awesome response! I would love to force these religiontards to all be vegan under penalty of death and then preach how successful veganism is.
@Shaam2032 There is NO proof of gods. She does not exist.
There is FAR more proof for: Bigfoot (some proof but not fully proven), space aliens (lots of proof but not fully proven), 911 inside job (little proof), Anthropogenic Global Warming (proven) than there is of "gods" or "god" (absolutely zero proof).
mphello 3 weeks ago
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@Shaam2032 My life and the lives of atheists have INFINITELY more meaning and value than your worthless life and the worthless lives of theists.
mphello 3 weeks ago
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mphello 3 weeks ago
How could this Dan Barker be so stupid as to waste 19+ years of his life preaching worthless excrement before growing a brain and realizing what a colossal stupid waste it was and how much damage he had done to children and youth?
mphello 1 month ago
Only subhuman shitheads believe in gods or a god.
mphello 1 month ago 2
Hamzah doesn't know the difference between what Hawking said about Gravity itself and the Law of Gravity.
He literally cannot know what Hawking's books mean nor could he understand them to make such a total asinine statement.
What a clown.
Harizl 1 month ago
@Alo754 acctuali the Muslim guy won :)
SultanOfSwords 1 month ago
@SultanOfSwords
Debate isn't about winning, it is about being honest to what you are putting forward, and so far (i'm only 17 minutes in) and he has taken 3 quotations out of context with the work he is quoting. If you are not honest in your statements you are simply being an ideologue.
Harizl 1 month ago 2
Hamzah(Muslim) who is self taught, defeats all those Atheist Dr's and Professors. Allahu Akbar
SultanOfSwords 1 month ago
@SultanOfSwords Hamza hasn't defeated anyone. You're delusional, but thanks for letting us all know. Hamza is an uneducated clown, running around playing make-believe and acting like his arguments are new or profound when it's recycled bullshit. Allah is man made, and gay.
Ghoshul 1 month ago 2
” Pakistan’s foreign Ministry spokesperson said that “anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence”.
ruffgreens 1 month ago
Wow, the title is easy to awnser. Saving myself 2 hours, it is a fact the atheism is rational, and islam irrational. Simply because atheism is based on reason, skepcticsm, critical thinking, and evidence, while Islam is based on faith. No need to thank me for saving everyone 2 hours :)
alo754 2 months ago
islam is not based simply on faith my felow youtuber, otherwise you wouldnt get verses in the quran that encourage the reader to reflect and reason,
faction52 1 month ago
@faction52 It is entirely blind faith based. There is no evidence for anything supernatural or godlike so please stop trying to pretend there is something there. What a stupid statement you made.
Ghoshul 1 month ago 2
there is an element of faith there because here is no empirical evidence for the existence of God but it is not blind faith. anyone who just accepts it because it is written in the book is practicing blind faith, but Islam doesnt teach that, The quran says as i was stating earlier that it challenges the reader to reflect on is own existence and come to a reasoned conclusion of whether he or she believes that yes, there must be something..
faction52 1 month ago
..that started this off that has at least no beginning, or arise to the conclusion that no there is no divinity we just came into existence after the Big bang. And for many muslim/theist adherents, the question arises how did the big bang come into existence. the chain of causality would continue unless there was something infitnite and not bound to beginning or end. And please dont just discount other peoples commnts in a derogotary fashion just explain your side we're willing 2 hear
faction52 1 month ago
@faction52 Just say that the universe is eternal, leave out the middle-man (your god), because it offers nothing. Claiming there's a first cause is not only unsupported, but it's based on intuition and inductive reasoning - which you are extrapolating to the furthest degree in the "beginning" so to speak, of the universe. This is obviously flawed. I discount comments and arguments that are nothing but assertions and absurdities. Ridiculous claims deserve ridicule by definition.
Ghoshul 1 month ago
@faction52 There doesn't "must be something". You didn't come to that from a reasoned perspective, because reason dictates support or basis, and there is none of that offered by Islam, or any theistic belief or religion. There's no good reason to believe these things are true, hence faith. This is why you have faith, and it is blind because there is no evidence. You have what people wrote, and nothing else. And you expect this to be "reasoned faith" ? Get real.
Ghoshul 1 month ago
@faction52 and discourages free speech and freedom of thought because of the threat of terrible punishment should you criticize the koran, the islamic prophet or the islamic deity... (or death should one chose to leave that insanity).. amazing deceit..
daNDayati 6 days ago
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BS! Muhammad violent SINFUL dead Murderer! Islam/Quran is corrupt! Jesus/Healed/Blessed/Peace/Salvation/GOD! All MUSLIMS who converted to Christianity ARE HAPPY & FREE OF ABUSE & MISERY Islam leaders are killing you! Christians LOVE YOU! PLEASE accept JESUS CHRIST as your SAVIOR John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! REBEL & ACCEPT JESUS! Be FREE of ISLAM LIES Visit cbn.com /radio
tigersforchrist 2 months ago
@tigersforchrist you are just as bad and just as irritating as the muslims... religious idiocy is wrong no matter who advocates what...christianity has as many lies as the rest..
daNDayati 6 days ago
Just like WLC, he bases most of his conclusions on a big fat argument from ignorance, peppered with category errors and grammatical silliness.
ideologger 2 months ago
Christians worship God
Athiests worship themselves
Muslims worship satan
Galatians 1:8 - "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed."
gilbert4321 3 months ago
@gilbert4321 by your definition Satan = God!! wordd!!
arsi1214 3 months ago
@arsi1214 no.. The god Muslims worship isn't the father in heaven. Those who do not love the Son do not love the Father.
gilbert4321 3 months ago
@gilbert4321
Cool story bro
DR000 2 months ago
@gilbert4321 let's simplify this axiom and make it valid:
christians and muslims make bullshit arguments for their respective dogmas (neither one makes sense)
Non believers don't buy into religious bullshit
And please... both sides.. stop quoting your bronze/iron age text from delirious desert dwelling goatherds.. your quotes makes NO sense to anyone except your deluded selves.
daNDayati 6 days ago
Did I just hear someone yelled alah akbhar? Holy moly fucking molly, those audience are one hell of a retards.
3dimensionalJoe 3 months ago
And I keep hearing idiot kids in the background. What moron brings little kids to a debate?
AtheistPowerlifter 3 months ago
I like Hamza. I think he is intelligent, and entertaining. He would be a great anti-apologist if he ever sees the light.
Unfortunately he presents nothing new here, and is easily refuted by Barker. same old bullshit arguments long ago debunked. Jesus, some of his arguments are also used by Ray Comfort, which should be telling.
AtheistPowerlifter 3 months ago
Athiesm, where you beleive something as simple as a fork has a creator, or designer but not the very freaking universe you live in.
MojowidanAK 3 months ago
@MojowidanAK Theism...where instead of trying to understand the physical reality of the world around you, you say 'goddidit', and are satisfied.
AtheistPowerlifter 3 months ago
@AtheistPowerlifter explain to me the physical reality then, explain how we are in such a perfect position in the galaxy (Earth), how we just happen to have water and the sun to live, how we just freaking happen to have freaking air to breath in the only planet in the galaxy which has oxygen to live, how we have a system in our body to consume and take in the air, why didnt the big bang explode into a big bowl of mess, stop being arrogant and thinking your dad created everything.
MojowidanAK 3 months ago
@MojowidanAK You are looking at it from the wrong perspective...we are here because conditions happened to be right for our type of life on earth. That's it.
The planet and conditions aren't the way they are BECAUSE we are here. This is just typical theist arrogance. If conditions were different there would be different forms of life (like the huge insects that existed when we had a higher O2 content in the atmos), or there would be no life.
But honestly, fine tuning? He can do better
AtheistPowerlifter 3 months ago
@AtheistPowerlifter "we are here because conditions happened to be right for our type of life on earth." - LOL are you serious!?!? "You seem to be the one who believes in a magic sky daddy, no?" im not christian, i dont beleive God is my dad or father nor do i believe he begets children, hes my creator, designer, who keeps this universe in the order it is now, but hey whatever, you can keep living the way your living, your just gona age, wrinkle and pass away like everyone else, then youll see
MojowidanAK 3 months ago
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@MojowidanAK "we are here because conditions happened to be right for our type of life on earth."
Explain to me why this statemnt is so "LOL" as you put it. Also explain how, because of this statement, it leads you to state that I believe in a deity. I obviously believe that there is a natural explanation for the existence of the universe. Abiogenesis is in the process of being explained, and natural selection explains ALL life on earth from the 1st single cell organism forward.
AtheistPowerlifter 3 months ago
@MojowidanAK And yes. We just age and die. What's your point? Do you find this unsatisfactory, and need the promise of an afterlife to give false consolation? I don't.
People who ask "Why are we here?" don't realize that it's a silly question. I am not saying that you are asking this - just making a point.
There is no reason we are here. We are here, and our brains have evolved enough that we can self reflect. That's it.
AtheistPowerlifter 3 months ago
@AtheistPowerlifter lol i bet you are gona be those old people playing bingo in their last days in life, just trying to savour every last second becuase you think after this all that happens is your eyes permanently close and everything goes just ...dark....right? sad, good luck with your life mate.... peace.
MojowidanAK 3 months ago
@MojowidanAK I guess my questions were too hard 'eh?
Whatever.
Cheers bud, enjoy the kool aid.
AtheistPowerlifter 3 months ago
@AtheistPowerlifter you didnt give a question, you just threw out words a fish on dry land would give out "durr i just ended up here"
MojowidanAK 3 months ago
@MojowidanAK
Ok bud.
AtheistPowerlifter 3 months ago
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@MojowidanAK "hes my creator, designer, who keeps this universe in the order it is now, but hey whatever, you can keep living the way your living, your just gona age, wrinkle and pass away like everyone else, then youll see"
So you seem to be a Deist by your own statement...but then you say "I'll see" after I die, which seems to imply you believe in a personal god who cares about us and gives us an afterlife. So which is it? And if so which god?
AtheistPowerlifter 3 months ago
@MojowidanAK "why didnt the big bang explode into a big bowl of mess, stop being arrogant and thinking your dad created everything."
You don't understand the 'big bang'...well, almost no one does really. You should read about it. Look up the Lawrence Krauss video on youtube "a universe from nothing".
Funny you tell me to stop thinking my Dad created everything. You seem to be the one who believes in a magic sky daddy, no? I don't believe in magic or the spernatural.
AtheistPowerlifter 3 months ago
Hamza Tzortis is a complete, utter idiot. The word, "Submit" is servile and weak" People who say, "I submit to Allah", have submitted their thinking faculties to ignorance and psychosis. Believing in Allah ≠ Logical; Believing in Muhammad as Allah's messenger = Psychotic and Delusional Finding or believing in God is a waste of time and energy.
kangsan2014 3 months ago
How to lose all credibility in an argument about any of the thousands of gods - claim the nonbeliever in that god is angry at that god. Does it get any more fatuous? Bleh, that's all I can watch.
SirDarkStar 3 months ago
Tzortzis is laughably bad at logic. I laughed, I felt sad, I felt embarrassed. It was a veritable emotional rollercoaster.
Damn shame that Barker didn't point out that (1) the Arabic language was adjusted to conform to the Arabic found in the Qur'an after the fact in order to make its prose look better and that (2) PZ Myers had already fairly thoroughly schooled Tzortzis for his claims of Qur'anic foreknowledge of embryology, rendering him a touch dishonest in addition to a blathering idiot.
nosensetoitatall 3 months ago
P1: from the Quran: Allah begets not and is not begotten
P2: the universe was Begotten
C: Allah did not beget the universe
SirDarkStar 3 months ago
It doesn't matter to me if you are religios or not. It's not my business. I can't be responsible for others. What really matters to me is good attitude. Good intentions too. So I don't think that people calling for hate and intolerance are good people.
They are not. Not for me. I wish you can find your peace with any kind of fate you have without harming other people. Good luck.
bergmanana 3 months ago
Almost fell asleep eighteen minutes in... Such nonsense, bullshit, begging. Hamza, please! Give it up, dude. It's over. You and religion lose.
manmadesounds 3 months ago
@manmadesounds
No. :))
Time will show you those who are truly religious.
Religion will never lose. Most of humans will lose. Remember that.
bergmanana 3 months ago
@bergmanana Time? People like you and Hamza show me who is "truly religious" today. You lose the debate. You can keep trying to convince me, but day after day goes by & your argument for religion grows weaker and the religion you follow moves closer to obscurity just like all of the religions before it. Like Mr. Barker stated "Who here worships the god: Thor?" Allah & Yahweh are in line to disappear from the realm of fairy tales taken seriously by some. Stop wasting time defending nonsense.
manmadesounds 3 months ago
@manmadesounds
Please, I'm not trying to convice you.
You don't know certain things. There is no point in convincing people around. Really, it's not my intention. I wish you luck my friend.
bergmanana 3 months ago
@bergmanana What certain things don't I know? I'm honestly asking you to, please, educate me. I yearn for knowledge.
manmadesounds 3 months ago
@bergmanana Yeah, religion will never lose because one day it will cause Nuclear War. :P
atheistram 3 months ago
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@atheistram
That is true. Despite the fact that people claim they are not religious they will destroy this world because of religion. :))
bergmanana 3 months ago
Atheism. Clearly.
manmadesounds 3 months ago
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You wouldn't be here if you were completely sure that God doesn't exist.
bergmanana 3 months ago
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@bergmanana You would not be here if you were secure in your delusion.
By your own reasoning, that is.
KapStuf 3 months ago
FUCK ISLAM!
TheMrgoku1985 3 months ago
@TheMrgoku1985
There is one difference between evil and good. Evil knows to hate.
bergmanana 3 months ago
@bergmanana
FUCK ISLAM!
TheMrgoku1985 3 months ago
@TheMrgoku1985
It's evil to say that.
bergmanana 3 months ago
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@bergmanana
This is Muhammad and Aisha age 9:
☻/
/▌ ..o..
.8---^
/ \ .....If you care about free speech, please copy and paste them.
TheMrgoku1985 3 months ago
I'll be honest... perhaps Ayaan Hirsi Ali or Maryam Namazi would have been a better debater in this one. Not sure how an ex-Christian pastor can say much about Islam, especially in debating Hamtza Tzortzis.
That's not to say that Dan doesn't do a good job. It was a good debate.
jimmyRRpage 3 months ago
Wow, he pulled the "No atheists in foxholes" canard. Classy, Tzortzis. And also nicely supported. "As study done about the Titanic" as if there was such a thing, or that it could possibly have been conducted in anything close to an accurate fashion. I'm sure they polled everyone on the Titanic for their religious views when they walked on board, then followed it up with an exit poll...
Elitistb616 3 months ago
This mans arguments are vomit. Islam is vomit. Religion is dumb.
TheSultan03 3 months ago
I think most women undergoing torture in Afghanistan are probably atheists after all the shit they go through with no hope.
We in the first world worry about things like free speech to be the more important issues of the day.. but if just for one day you(religious people), lived the life of an Afghani woman.. and realize that no amount of praying will get out of that hopeless hell hole, you'd realize that the cozy life that you're thanking god for is just an accident of birth.
test123ok 3 months ago
I have a sincere desire to punch Hamza in the face. He's obnoxious.
spookyemosquid 3 months ago
@spookyemosquid he does boxing and wrestling, i dont think you would want to punch him.
MojowidanAK 3 months ago
peace plz check rekkitten on youtube u will b shocked wish u best ever
TheAngelofliberty 3 months ago
Debate: Is Atheism or Islam More Rational? ;P
jojeboi 3 months ago
PZ Myers, why'd you direct me here?
wstevenschneider 3 months ago
Hamza Andreas = Fact that there is no god. Otherwise, stupid like Hamza Andreas wouldn't exist.
hevyAccel 3 months ago
Answer: Atheism.
Next topic please.
cm3007235 3 months ago
Can't help it: the over-enthusiastic way Hamza talks just makes me think of Wheatley from Portal 2. Lay off the caffeine, dude!
mirkwoodian 3 months ago
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@mirkwoodian "the over-enthusiastic way Hamza talks just makes me think of Wheatley from Portal 2"
Only that? He also rather resembles Wheatley regarding the factual content of his speech.
Elitistb616 3 months ago
I wish I could see a debate between Tzortzis and William Lane Craig. The both use the same arguments yet reach different conclusions about the nature of God.
When he mentioned the "Blind Spot" being what we don't know that we don't know what we don't know - isn't that the ultimate argument from ignorance for god?
8WholeThing 3 months ago 4
Why does Dan Barker bother with idiots like Tzortzis? They're not even *interesting* idiots - this one keeps repeating the claim that Mohammed was trained in advanced embryology by an angel's voice...but was somehow unable to explain the revelations without incredibly strained metaphors.
KapStuf 3 months ago 4
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InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
Hamza cannot deliver a point without beginning it with "First and foremost..." If everything is "First and foremost", nothing is "First and foremost".
SmilingSkeptic 3 months ago
Rule #1 for Religious Apologists: DON'T USE EXISTENTIALISM AS A JUSTIFICATION FOR RELIGION.DISTANCE YOURSELF FROM IT! It will just show you how mindless you really are and amply the pointlessness of religion too! And for ppl not realizing this oxymoron, read Philosophy Made Simple. As for Occam, use Rule #1. Use the Laws of Robotics instead of this verbal dribble coming from this religious "intellectual", it's a better book. Finally, word salad is an art not reasoning, and forget scientific.
felix7991 3 months ago
Atheism.
progrockcoffee 3 months ago
Why do atheists engage theists like this? Trying to make them see reason and face facts is a Sisyphean and ultimately futile task. The meta-argument is: "Why do theists behave the way they do? I hereby put forward two possibilities;
1) It's a good gig, You can make some real coin milking the masses. And it's a profession with a long history. Just never fess up.
2) The brainwashed follow along because their lying leaders never fess up.
Do they know when they're lying?
JuliaLin2 3 months ago 6
@JuliaLin2 They aren't doing it for the benefit of the person they are debating, but for the benefit of those who watch it. I appreciate their work as we won't be able to grow as a species until reason is valued over imaginary friends/fantasy/religion.
I agree with your statements on why theists behave like that do. Soldier on sister!
bradfordbright 3 months ago
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Islam is the worst thing.
dpaanlka 3 months ago
I never knew anyone could make me feel a wistful nostalgia for William Lane Craig. That alone has gotta be worth the price of admission.
InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago 2
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InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
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InvincibleIronyMan 3 months ago
Hamza says Dan sounds angry, but does he realize he sounds whiny and girly himself?
gspahr 3 months ago
The muslim apologist is obnoxious as expected. Also, as expected, he conveniently ignores the most damning arguments against his position (never addresses evil, the definition of his god etc etc) and instead favors william lane craig style rationalizations for violence and focuses on easily squashed first cause arguments. When will these people realize their precious first cause arguments =/= their particular, narrow version of god.
sh0ckerturb0 3 months ago 4
Oh sure, he calls out Islam as a fairy tale. He wouldn't dare say such things about Christianity! Hypocrite!
unclexbob 3 months ago
@unclexbob Did you watch the video? He rips on Christianity a lot.
jake12466 3 months ago
@jake12466 It is a joke. Just about every debate between a christian and an atheist will have the reverse of my comment.
unclexbob 3 months ago
@unclexbob Oh sorry. I didn't pick up on the joke. Hail satan :D
jake12466 3 months ago
@unclexbob Dan Barker has said Christianity is a fairy tale many times. :P
atheistram 3 months ago
Just starting this. The downside is, never having listened to this particular apologist, I feel obligated to put up with his bullshit, rather than skip to the more entertaining and intelligent atheist response. I'd ask you to pray for my sanity, but we all know that won't do crap, don't we ^_^
Sines314 3 months ago 3
Atheism=1 Theism=0
Sorry for the spoiler, but I felt it had to be stated.
THEHARMONIKZ 3 months ago 4
If Tzortzis were a kitten, the first snow he sees would be proof for Allah's existence.
khrismuc 3 months ago
@khrismuc If Tzortzis were a kitten... my masturbation is proof of Allah's nonexistence!
8DX 3 months ago
"You're angry aren't you? You sound angry!"... Shoulda responded "You're stupid aren't you? You sound stupid!" Luckily this man knows how to actually have a debate.
spqri3 3 months ago 6
Occam's Razor? Holy shit, this guy is a moron.
Let's see, which is simpler:
1) Any scientific proposition--lightening is a discharge of static electricity, time and space curve, tiny things call atoms are the basis of all matter, and matter is almost entirely empty space...etc.
2) God did it.
Yes, it turns out that imagining a magical creature that solves all problems with no need for explanation is simple. It's also fucking stupid.
TBlake34 3 months ago 6
@TBlake34 This clown doesn't even realize that Occam's Razor is not on his side. He argues that a) there is a magic man in the sky who has existed forever and has an infinite history of events that b) created the universe.
This seems like at least one more step than a) the universe, in some form, has existed forever and has an infinite history of events.
aichpvee 3 months ago
@aichpvee Yeah, he seems to think that parsimony within a theory means: "something satisfying that I don't have to think about."
You're absolutely correct. Once the implications of this magic, eternal, wise, merciful, merciless laser-beam shooting dude with a beard are actually considered, it's WAY more complicated, and unnecessarily so, than just theorizing that the stuff we can observe goes back indefinitely.
TBlake34 3 months ago
Such gibberish and pathetic nonsense.
This religious goofball just gives up any notion of argument during the rebuttal phase and spews the normal gibberish.
I love the idea that any criticism of religion is just misunderstanding of the full meaning of the religion. How, pray tell, do we understand the full meaning? Well, dude, we just have to believe it first.
That's among the many reasons why religion is just completely irrational. It makes no sense until you decide to believe all of it.
TBlake34 3 months ago 27
@TBlake34 Right. It makes no sense until you decide to let go of your willingness to make sense of things. And when you've done that, you lose the ability altogether.
blackwolf1200 3 months ago
@TBlake34 When did he EVER say "WELL DUDE WE JUST HAVE TO BELIEVE IT FIRST"? or you're commenting on the wrong video? Either refute his claim, or get some brain and understand logic. ah! Cant blame descendant of an ape!
gogaphantom 3 months ago
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@gogaphantom "When did he EVER say "WELL DUDE WE JUST HAVE TO BELIEVE IT FIRST"?"
The entirety of Islam comes from the Qur'an. The Qur'an has no place as evidence as anything unless you presuppose that Mohammed was a prophet. If you do not, then the best explanation is that he was one of many hallucinating epileptics who were believed to be in touch with gods by ancient ignorants.
Gnomefro 3 months ago
@gogaphantom "Either refute his claim..."
Arguments from ignorance and unfounded assertions need no refutation.
Gnomefro 3 months ago
@gogaphantom You're ignorant of the fact that humans *are* apes and you're going to insult the intelligence of anyone? Did your mother drop you on your head repeatedly as a small child or were you just born this stupid?
aichpvee 3 months ago
@gogaphantom Ah, a literalist. You have accurately pointed out that he did not literally say those words in that order. I believe that if you follow his actual argument, to the extent that his gibberish can be described as such, you will notice that time and time again that when something particular horrible or ridiculous is quoted from his old book of fairy tales, he responds by arguing that atheists just don't get it. Reading apologist literature will explain it. Accept, THEN it makes sense.
TBlake34 3 months ago
@TBlake34 "It makes no sense until you decide to believe all of it."
Actually, it's impossible to be consistent. It's dead easy to demonstrate that Mohammed has the most embarrassingly false view of reality by reading Tabari's history etc. We're talking flat earth with a skydome and claims of the sun and the moon riding around in chariots in the heavenly ocean. And that's from a well respected early muslim intellectual This guy would have to call out Mohammed as a liar..
Gnomefro 3 months ago
@Gnomefro "It's dead easy to demonstrate that Mohammed has the most embarrassingly false"
Check out this video after 27:00 to get an answer to your query.
/watch?v=iZNleSuS8lg
Watch from 23rd minute if you are not too bored to hear about more about the inimitablity of the Quran.
gogaphantom 3 months ago
@TBlake34 Dude, im sorry if i ofended you bt, lets just say. Which one of these has more intellect? in general, who has studied more logic and philosophy? Hamza was an Atheist, do you think he gets paid for believing in a God? why would he convert to Islam? if the whole idea of god really is so gibberish, why then? either he is insane and without logic, or he is explaining this right. if he is insane, well, im sure that will cause more problems than it creates, he shudve been an atheist then.
gogaphantom 3 months ago
@gogaphantom By roughly 1000% the person evincing a knowledge of rational argument and reasoned methods of inquiry is Mr. Barker.
Barker was a believer, you think he get's paid for being an atheist? The hell do you think that proves? This is the sort of argument one makes when reason isn't on their side.
But like Hamza's voice, your writings are rambling and incoherent. You're speaking with a ridiculous affect born of years of listening to preists and other religious folks babble at the sky.
TBlake34 3 months ago
@TBlake34 ROFLMAO, "affect born of years of listening to priests" haha, tht should have made barker the same since he had more interaction with priests :P
& u r wrong again haha! Getin out of religion opens al views of unlawful stuff, no moral values everythng is permisible. Wen u cant drink as a chrstian or a muslim, u get out of religion to do so! so why wud Hamza choose religion wen he could have EVERY joy of life in Atheism? Barker wantd tht &he left religion. so yea, is he or HE paid? :p
gogaphantom 3 months ago
@gogaphantom That wasn't the reason Barker left religion. Nice strawman. :P
atheistram 3 months ago
@atheistram dude, ur mistaken, check the previous conversations with the other guy. i'm not pointing it to barker, but the concept like-i asked him if hamza is paid when he converted to islam from atheism? so he said is barker paid? then i told him that religion = confinement, why wud someone leave atheism for it? to confine urself from drinking and the lame joys of life? ofc hamza knew there was something true about it or why would he confine himself for nothing? i hope you get my point.
gogaphantom 3 months ago
@gogaphantom Yeah, that's a great argument. Let's look at the most religious countries in the world, hell, let's just look at the most Islamic countries in the world because that's the subject under discussion, do we encounter a lot of "morality?"
No one is tossing acid in women's faces in largely atheist Sweden.
But this isn't surprising. This dumb idea that religion is necessary for morality is really all you goofballs end up falling back to.
TBlake34 3 months ago
@TBlake34 My Goodness :)
Wich religion is tht again? Islam? plz do ur homework befre stating somthin frm ur own head. If ur refering to Honor Killing, tht is NOT Islam, killing ones daughter becus she went out with a boy etc, that is Honr kiling &it is EXTREMELY discouraged by Islam. You have no idea how much Islam values Women &Wives. Lets see- whats the divorce rate in Your country and in Saudi Arabia? :)
If u r going to state lies, im sorry we canot continue this decent discussion
gogaphantom 3 months ago
@gogaphantom Holy shit. Just amazing. You're actually pointing to the lower divorce rate as evidence that women are treated well? Divorce is one of the single institutions that most directly points to the rights of women.
It's really easy to have a low divorce rate if you force women into marriages and then never allow them to divorce. That's OPPRESSION of women, not women's rights. You're religion is so fucking backwards (as all they are).
TBlake34 3 months ago
@TBlake34 well if people force women to get married in Islam,is it from the teachings of Islam? that is what you need to find out.not just shooting of at the mouth and women can get divorced and that if from the teachings of islam. when you have now turned women into sexual objects,exploiting them.your twisted mentality now thinks you have liberated them. how sad!!
TheFalconel 2 months ago
@TheFalconel Seriously, everything tht goes wrong goes with the blame on islam, everything tht preaches good promotes morality? bt wait, we are animals, where did morality come from? there is no god, then everything ought to be permissible. this fact alone proves tht there is a lot of truth in islam to be honest, the fact that when things go wrong they blame islam for it, and never for all the 99% good in it. besides, this also proves an unseen biased force doesnt it? 1% > 99%? <3
gogaphantom 2 months ago
@TBlake34 please relate your comments together. do you have any idea what you are referring to in the first place? and what now? you say one thing, i answer it and the you ask another ignoring my former replies? faceroll too good man. why would someone force a woman to marry her and then keep her forced never to allow them to divorce? for the sake of religion you'd say hahah, a madman thinks what he thinks <3
gogaphantom 2 months ago
@gogaphantom I always enjoy how ignorant the religious are of religion.
You cited a low divorce rate as evidence that women in the Islamic world are treated well. That's like citing the low number of escaped slaves as evidence that slavery is fun.
Islam only allows divorce in extraordinary circumstances. Thus, the religious cultural tradition is to restrict women's ability to direct their own lives, therefore low divorce rate.
It really isn't complicated. Christianity is much the same.
TBlake34 2 months ago
@TBlake34 Awesome response! I would love to force these religiontards to all be vegan under penalty of death and then preach how successful veganism is.
(I'm not being sarcastic about that.)
mphello 1 month ago
Flying horses...let's see...I think there's a pop song about flying horses. Must be true. Checkmate, atheism!
CntrBrdr 3 months ago 12