Matt Dillahunty vs. Mark Allison: Good Without God? part 1 / 9

[opiateofthemasses]

@Autumn6 Duh. But he did change HIS version which is what he presented to Matt Dillahunty. Also if you can call what happened in that episode a victory for Matt Slick, than you are either just as dishonest and willfully ignorant as Matt Slick revealed himself to be, or you are just incapable of understanding anything that was said by either of them.

[Autumn6]

Matt Dillahunty picks weak opponents like Mark Allison and Ray Comfort. Dillahunty got destroyed by Matt Slick, a REAL apologist.

[LordOfLuck]

@Autumn6

Is that why Matt Slick went back and changed the TAG argument on his website in order to comply to Matt Dillahunty's criticisms?

[Autumn6]

@LordOfLuck Matt Slick didn't invent TAG

[Domzdream]

Oh And thanks for the uploads. I will enjoy this thoroughly.

[Domzdream]

Hooo boy. Willy Craige. Ouch. He is literally the most irritating debaters out there. He talks so much shit, it's embarrassing.

[Domzdream]

At 11:09)

Matt's thinking. Oh, god. This going to be soooo easy.

[Feralus69]

Right when Mark said he was reading from William Lane Craig I facepalmed and smiled because whenever a theist debater says those magic words they have admitted defeat out of the gate.

[knuckles91444]

lol the pastor sounds like a dillahunty fanboy when he starts talking.. guess i can't blame him

[felisleo101]

Wow. It's so nice when sane people debate each other.

[Account4TheMusic]

More debates! More debates!

[JMUDoc]

For fuck's sake...

"IF there are objective moral values, then what the Nazis did WOULD have been wrong even if they thought it was right."

But for the ifs and woulds, this would be air tight - all that needs to be done is to PROVE THE OBJECTIVE VALUES FUCKING EXIST AT ALL. Oh, and you can't use god - WLC uses the moral argument to try to establish a god's existence, so bringing god in would be circular.

[parkerthehicks]

@JMUDoc I don't know how anyone would go about proving moral values, each person has different ones, but mine are objective. I decide what is moral by how my actions affect others. If they provide more harm than good, then they are immoral

[JMUDoc]

@parkerthehicks

This is where shockofgod, among others, gets mixed up. For example, I/we can say "rape is always wrong", but what I/we really mean is "rape is wrong in every circumstance I/we can think of", and for a particular person the two statements are (reasonably) conflated to be equivalent.

However, for something to be objectively wrong in the way that William Lane Craig et al require, EVERY circumstance would have to be ennumerated and checked, which isn't possible.

[parkerthehicks]

@JMUDoc but it is possible for it to be wrong in every circumstance in which it causes more harm than good. Say if you had to rape someone to save the planet, then it is ok, but at that point it is causing more good than harm

[JMUDoc]

@parkerthehicks

You are recognizing grey areas and a "spectrum" of wrongness, something that Christianity doesn't allow for :).

In any case, "wrong in every circumstance in which it causes more harm than good" isn't wrong in ALL circumstances, which is what would be necessary for the moral argument. I'm not even sure there IS an "all" circumstances, come to think of it...

[DarkBunnyLord]

@parkerthehicks Then they're not objective. Subjective means they can change based on the person or situation, you just presented that they're based off the end result, thus meaning the other factors are random.

Objective would be something like "Stealing is always Bad" or "Community service is always Good"

[parkerthehicks]

@DarkBunnyLord it is objective, because regardless of who applies it, one action will cause a certain amount of harm and that will never change

[DarkBunnyLord]

@parkerthehicks No it's not, because you've set the guidlines for whether it's good or bad based solely off the outcome and not the circumstances making it a subjective argument. Even with that variable aside the fact that you're making it only applicable to yourself also makes it subjective as others won't always agree with you.

[parkerthehicks]

@DarkBunnyLord well that is just it, it is not just applicable to myself. The nature of scientifically determining the impact of actions is objective

[parkerthehicks]

@parkerthehicks srry not applicable to just myself*

[DarkBunnyLord]

@parkerthehicks That's not true. Different people are going to put different value on different things. When a person steals bread to feed his starving children from a man that is selling the bread to feed his family both are going to argue having more harm done on their side and thus morality is, and will always be, subjective.

[parkerthehicks]

@DarkBunnyLord yeah i guess so, maybe the word for it is constant. At least for a single person this specific moral code is consistent and divorced from complete moral relativism

[JMUDoc]

"I shall free these slaves... then tell them it's OK for them to keep slaves."

Nepotism and/or hypocrisy... from god.

[heathsawyer]

Morality is imposed by humans to regulate their lives not gods. Was it immoral for God to order Abraham to kill his son? To the people who believe that there is nothing wrong with sacrificing your own son, shame on you. If God was testing Abraham wouldn't the correct answer to the test be, NO GOD I will not kill my son! Dena Schlosser a Devout Christian Cut her baby's arms off! She did it because God told her too, sound familiar? Yes that's an unusual case but Abraham's situation is unusual.

[TRAdamTM]

@heathsawyer

Yesterday god told me to set my sister on fire because she was a sinner, so I got the gasoline and matches. Just before I was about to pour it over her and light the fire, god was like: J/K bro! and sang TROLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[synsei1]

@TRAdamTM And Yaweh saith unto Abraham:

"U mad bro?"

[Forserean]

Thank you ;-)

[dangitaaa]

Thanks for the upload



[eminescinescu]

@dangitaaa It was my pleasure, sorry for the sound ...

[BillKiernan]

a book supposedly directly supervised by the creator of the universe, and it bores humans, even jews and christians, to tears. hmmmm.......

[halolIlmao0]

Thanks for uploading.

[eminescinescu]

@halolIlmao0 You are welcome, sorry for the sound ... enjoy :).

Respect.

[icepigs]

Thanks for uploading this. I missed listening to it live!

[UrbanFury12]

The audio is really bad, but thanks for uploading this.

[eminescinescu]

@UrbanFury12 The next parts or going to be much better, sorry for that...

[UrbanFury12]

@eminescinescu I am really excited check them out! It's fine man, I mean at least your uploading it.